Mini 1,115: Ozy and Millie Mafia (Game over!)

[DLG]

Hi, Packbat and Ghostlin.

Howdy, everyone else.

I read some of Ozy and Millie during sign-ups. Got too busy to read all of it.

VOTE: Ghostlin
'Cause he's the only one besides Packbat I've played with before.

[DLG]

That said im not going to answer any of the other RQS questions since they are entirely irrelevant to the game and just serve as something that can make noise.

Looks townie.

Whats with all the pokemon avatars suddenly too? This some new in thing?

Looks like a hypocrite.

UNVOTE: Ghostlin
VOTE: LlamaFluff

[DLG]

DLG: Why the double RVS? It's been a pretty consistent scumtell in the past, and your vote does nothing to add to any wagon, so...

It wasn't a second RVS. LlamaFluff dismissed answering the last two questions by Packbat as "entirely irrelevant to the game and just serve as something that can make noise." Then, he turned around and added fuel to the Pokemon discussion. That's hypocritical. I consider hypocrisy a scum tell. Hence, the vote change.

RVS for the sake of an early wagon is all well and good. Picking up on a scum tell to start one seems better.

Do you have a particular interest in keeping votes off LlamaFluff?

[DLG]

that's called being social, but w/e

Sure is. And, it wouldn't be a problem without the hypocrisy.

[DLG]

Its not trying to extend the RVS, I honestly dislike his posts.

Anything you care to elaborate on that you dislike?

[DLG]

RVS? VOTE Antihero

At least three votes have been identified as not being random already. Did you feel like you had to place a random vote? Is there anything so far which you find worth commenting on?

[DLG]

Packbat: You have 4 posts, more than anyone else in the thread (I think), yet nothing related to trying to find scum.

Since this, Packbat, you have two more posts to add to not trying to find scum. Plus, your response to LlamaFluff was a deflection. Joining a wagon to increase pressure and achieve your goal of getting serious pressure applied is not the same as declaring a top suspect.

UNVOTE: LlamaFluff
VOTE: Packbat

[DLG]

@ LlamaFluff

But my role is a cop, and I am Dr. I Wahnsinnig

You're the self-proclaimed flavor expert. Does the claim make sense from a flavor standpoint?

@ Empking
I agree that vezokpiraka's "confusion" seems forced. Still, please answer his question.

I buy the claim but why no lynch emp?

@ werewolf555
I've never played with you before. But, the prevailing opinion seems to be less than complimentary towards you. Are you given to making claims like this when you don't really have to?

I have no basis to either accept or not accept werewolf555's claim. I'll go with a willing suspension of disbelief for the time being.

Question for the wagonners. Is this the kind of result you were looking for by building up the werewolf555 wagon so quick?

[DLG]

No Lynch is needed in order to play follow the cop properly.

Presumably so as to provide no chance for scum to manipulate the investigative choice of the cop?

Given the multitude of possible set-ups, I think this is a wretched idea.

Anyone else?

[DLG]

I didn't see any reason for him to claim.

Agreed. Especially considering Empking was already voting for him. Even if someone not on the wagon had said that, it was extremely early for that kind of thing.

This looks like a high probability scum lynch.

UNVOTE: Packbat
VOTE: Empking

[DLG]

Empking is at L-2.

Not by my count. I only count 4 votes on him with your unvote. But, your concern is duly noted. Why so concerned?

I am here to plead for more votes on vezok-scum
...
This is obv. rolefishing, and him along with his partner Empking who also spurred on the claiming
...
I feel that these 2 people are scum, and were trying to extract votes from ppl so that they could get roles.
Join me in lynching these obv. scum
VOTE: empking

Do you want more votes on vezokpiraka as initially stated, or Empking?
How is vezokpiraka's vote obvious rolefishing?
Why did you cave to Empking's "pressure" and claim? This is the second time I have asked you this question. Please answer it this time.

[DLG]

@ Packbat
I was mistaken, and you were correct. Given that set of circumstances, my insinuation was off track.

I still sense a distinct lack of effort on your part to actively look for any scum. Do you have any suspicions at this point?

@ Empking

"I don't like Emp's No Lynch because its a masterful scum ploy" or "I don't like Emp's No lynch because from a theory point of view it does not coincide with the view that is held by myself."?

Voting no lynch gives more advantage to scum. So, yes, it looks like an attempt at a scum ploy.

Posing the question this way is scummy because all answers of option one naturally evolve from option two, which by being falsely contrasted with option one is not scummy.

If you were not attempting to force the claim from werewolf55, what was the point of your "Claim or die!" post?

[DLG]

Isn't getting a cop lynched on day one scum tell?

Not if the player claiming cop plays scummy and therefore the claim is subject to more question than normal.

Deliberately ignoring questions is a scum tell. Last chance.

To paraphrase Empking,

Answer or die!

[DLG]

LOL! I've been wagonned to L-1 in one page. Awesome. Check this wagon tomorrow for those who wanted to a counterwagon for Empking/WW.

Claim: Llewellyn VT

Please hammer. More claims is BAD. Good luck!

This is not a scum giving up response, full flavor claim or not.

@ Parama
If you want everyone to claim, just ask for a popcorn claim right now. Or, would that just look

too

scummy?

@ Packbat
Is LynchMePls's unprompted claim scummier than Ghostlin's vote? Is it so scummy that you are willing to threaten him with a vote? Or, are you just trying to appease Parama and his sycophants?

UNVOTE: Empking
VOTE: werewolf555
I don't really believe your claim at all, now. It looks like you were really anxious to get it out there and ride the natural reluctance of players to lynch a claimed cop. Don't bother answering my questions now. Ignoring them was answer enough, scum.

[DLG]

DLG, why is LMP town?

I think the tenor of his last post reads much more true as a VT than as a scum giving up. Aside from that, the case against him is valid and I want to hear his responses. I do have qualms about the lightning quick way both major wagons have been forced to claim point this early. I believe that is advantageous for scum.

What I am also noting is the ancillary reactions to what's going on, i.e. Packbat.

Yes, werewolf555, I did ask them.

[DLG]

you never asked me any questions?

I thought that I had to claim because I believed he hadn't voted at the time, and if I did not produce a claim, I would have been voted.[/quote=
Please give an effort to actually reading the thread before posting things. Under the circumstances you describe in your answers, your claim simply reverts to a natural state of being as questionable as any power role claim to stave off being lynched. The negative impact of lynching a cop outweighs the possible lynch of a fakeclaiming scum at this point.

UNVOTE: werewolf555

Actually llewellyn is the characters entire name, and is one of the biggest characters in the strip

That is good to know. Time to brush up on the flavor.

@ Packbat and Parama
Why the deception in your questions towards LynchMePls? You both claimed significant flavor knowledge.

[DLG]

Yikes, my apologies. Should have previewed before submitting. Try it this way.

you never asked me any questions?

I thought that I had to claim because I believed he hadn't voted at the time, and if I did not produce a claim, I would have been voted.

Please give an effort to actually reading the thread before posting things. Under the circumstances you describe in your answers, your claim simply reverts to a natural state of being as questionable as any power role claim to stave off being lynched. The negative impact of lynching a cop outweighs the possible lynch of a fakeclaiming scum at this point.

UNVOTE: werewolf555

Actually llewellyn is the characters entire name, and is one of the biggest characters in the strip

That is good to know. Time to brush up on the flavor.

@ Packbat and Parama
Why the deception in your questions towards LynchMePls? You both claimed significant flavor knowledge.

[DLG]

Also what "deception" are you talking about? That seems like extreeeme misrep FMPOV.

and it is technically true that other characters in Ozy and Millie have the name "Llewellyn" (just not as their only name). I agree with Par that 'deception' is a bit of a strong wording, though.

O.K. Since it seems that there is more than one Llewellyn character, there was no deception. My question was predicated on there only being one.

[DLG]

I read LynchMePls's last post as more town than scum. However, the more time that passes before he decides to get back in the game, the less inclined I am to believe that outweighs the case against him. VT claim combined with trying to lurk away the suspicion does look scummy. Time will tell.

vezokpiraka looks like scum to me.

Opportunistic L-1 vote on werewolf555 followed up by an attempt to blend in with the crowd on the werewolf555 icon joke/debate.
Complete and utter waffling response to the claim he helped generate:

I have to agree that even though I buy the claim it feels a little bit forced.

Sheeps to the next wagon on LynchMePls with another semi-waffle meta read.

This is not LMP town. I am pretty sure with that.

VOTE: vezokpiraka

[DLG]

@ Mod: Yeah, me three, on the potential to lose power and have to be V/LA. Hope not, but if I suddenly disappear for a couple of days, that's why.

[DLG]

This is not LMP town. I am pretty sure with that.

I am not sure what to believe. I know LMP scum from Star wars mafia. He is not acting like that here. So I have no idea what to believe.

I think he is just scum faking it.

"LynchMePls is not acting town, LynchMePls is not acting scum, but I'll leave my vote on him because I've now said both and can't be held accountable if he flips town" said the scum.

Sheep the going wagons, waffle out of responsibility, and do nothing to scum hunt yourself. Yep, scum for sure.

[DLG]

Want to bet an avatar with me DLG?

No.

Out of curiosity, though, are you offering to bet on A) you not being scum or B) LynchMePls being scum?

Because if it's A), actually refuting my argument as it relates to the game would be much more convincing than that kind of bluster. If it's B), again, the bluster means nothing and just take a stand and provide some analysis of why you took that stand.

You're still scum. You can congratulate me in post-game for nailing you so early.

[DLG]

I am 90% sure this guy is scum.

Wow, you're getting really ballsy, now. Only leaving yourself a 10% out.

Just to clarify, you're argument is that I posted a valid case against you and your scummy play, to which you offered no defense other than some bluster, then when I wouldn't let

that

scumminess slide, you arrived at your most daring move of voting me in a way that only leaves a small bit of room for you to slough off any residual responsibility for your mistake.

You did all this while neglecting to respond to the fact that you are a waffling, sheeping, scum.

As stated before, I'll be looking for your congratulatory post in the after game commentary.

All I can do is point out the scum. I need help to actually lynch him. A little help here?

[DLG]

I think you are voting me just so you protect your scumbudies who are being waggoned. The bet was just a reaction test. I didn't make a bet with anyone here ever. You failed. The way you responded was that of a scum who knew he can't win the bet so said it's just scummy of me to say that and proceed to vote me.

Quit trying to deflect the discussion off your scummy play and trying to make the debate about your bet. Answer my case against you. Until you do, all I can think is that you are scum who has no defense.

The way I responded was to refuse to be diverted by your attempts to cover the case against you with a smokescreen.

To make it absolutely clear, I wouldn't wager anything with anyone in a game setting like this. This is the last I'll say on this subject for the reason that it has nothing to do with the game.

[DLG]

You've said Ghostlin was scum a few times now, LMP - could you elaborate on that a hair?

I second Packbat's question.

All I see is an effort to say that the players on the LynchMePls wagon are top hunting grounds for scum. This, of course, is true regardless of LynchMePls's alignment, but significantly more so if he

is

town.

What doesn't make sense is the unsubstantiated vote on Ghostlin.

One town looking post was enough to keep me off the wagon at that time. Now, I'm stuck by not having two votes. My vote remains on vezokpiraka, but I'm firmly in the camp that beleives LynchMePls to be scummy.

I SAID LYNCH ME! That's not a defense.

True, but this was.

If I wanted to end debate as scum, why wouldn't I just have hammered myself? I've done it before (Picking Simplicity mafia in my wiki).

And, it sure was WIFOM.

and apparently enough people found me scummy to wagon me to L-1 (in like a page, so that wagon should be PRIMO for scum hunting, as well as looking at who I was a counter wagon to).

Ghostlin is scum folks. Just FYI.

My wagon was chock full of information goodness once you have my townie flip. Also pay attention to who else was getting talked about when my wagon suddenly EXPLODED from nothing to L-1 and the order of the votes. LOTS OF GOOD INFO THERE.

Ghoslin needs to be lynched. Srsly.

LynchMePls (6): Parama, LlamaFluff, Antihero, vezokpiraka, Empking, Packbat

That was my wagon when I claimed. Of the whole wagon, I'd order that wagon from town to scum:

LlamaFluff
Antihero
Parama
vezokpiraka
Empking
Packbat

Since then it was unvoted in the following order (along with reason given for unvote and place where vote went if there was a following vote):

Packbat - "Don't want a quickhammer"
LlamaFluff - "This game is moving too fast"
Antihero - "zOMG Ghostlin is scum" -> Vote Ghostlin

Of these three the unvote I like most is Llama's, and the one I like least is Packbat's. I'd say there is pretty good chance of scum in {Packbat, Antihero}.

Any and all town oriented effort is put into analyzing his wagon and stressing how important it is to look there for scum. But, his vote is on a player who had nothing to do with the wagon. And, there is no case to go with it.

[DLG]

vezokpiraka is unequivocally certain about only one thing. He will be around on Day 2. Only scum can be

this

certain.

We lynch him tomorrow and also get a result.

I have to agree that this lynch has to happen. Tomorrow (game day) I will attack DLG.

Along with the rest of your missing defense, please include an explanation for this certainty.

Given the choice, wouldn't it be better to lynch probable scum?

Of course it would. The point about LynchMePls is that he is looking scummy despite the VT claim.

[DLG]

I only got NKed two or three times in my entire mafia career. I don't scums will want to kill me when they have so many other better analysts then me to kill.

I have to honest here, I think you're reaching with that argument.

Both of those are probably true.

@ vezokpiraka
Why were you willing to take the werewolf555 RVS wagon to L-1? What did you hope to accomplish?
Can you explain the discrepancy in your stances on LynchMePls? Can you explain why you believe his lynch is the best move for Day 1?

[DLG]

@ vezokpiraka
Please explain what it was that had happened that made you believe werewolf555 was scum.

I'm unmoved by the Jerbs wagon. I recognize that his comment re: bristep/Fishythefish was bordering on buddying, but that same sentiment had already been expressed earlier by Parama. Of the three votes, Antihero's looks the best. Zyrconium's seems reasonable for the early stage. Fishythefish's vote post seems self-contradicting.

I like LF's Zryconium vote. I think it's the best thing going around right now.

Wait what Jerbs thinks I'm town? Based on... pretty much nothing. Previous occupant answered some RQs, and left because he'd overextended himself. Blatant buddying alert!

If Llamafluff's vote on Zyrconium was so good, why would you jump right in behind Zyrconium to vote Jerbs?

Outside of Zyrconium's last 2 posts, Llamafluff's case looked decent.

@ Llamafluff
Do you think Zyrconium's latest efforts redeemed him any?

@ Ghostlin
I agree in principal that werewolf555's claim and subsequent play is suspicious. But, do you truly feel that the risk to benefit ratio in lynching him is the right play? If he was just so excited to have a role that he felt would protect him from the noose, his claim doesn't look as bad. I have no experience playing with him. But, the general vibe that I got from his RVS wagon is that he's easily rattled and his claim grows out of that naturally. Could it be a mod-provided fake-claim? Sure. But, if it's not, forcing the scum to deal with him seems like a good idea.

[DLG]

DLG: This is a situation akin to the one we had with Mute, only worse.

I agree it is similar. I disagree that it is worse. I will say that your approach to the situation mirrors your approach there. For the record, Ghostlin was town in that game, for anyone who puts stock in meta analysis.

I'm not a fan of meta analysis.

Vezo, I'd vote for, but I'm really on the fence about due to the fact that I'm in No Exit with him, he just played the exact same way and turned up town; so I think this is his generic VI play, and even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

VI does not equal town. Regarding meta, see above, plus replicated behavior can just be a function of not being able to help oneself regardless of alignment. What do you think he's right about, even if just accidentally?

@DLG: I thought Zyrc was scummy, but that Jerbs's buddying was pretty awful. I don't see why Zyrc voting Jerbs should put me off much.

Well, if your take on the buddying was significant enough to overcome your impressions of Zyrconium, fair enough. Otherwise, it still rings strange to be willing to vote with someone you find scummy.

Not in the least.

Since your case consisted of a deal more than lack of scum hunting, I agree.

@ vezokpiraka
Please explain what it was that had happened that made you believe werewolf555 was scum.

Still waiting for an answer to this. Confine your answer to actions by werewolf55 before his claim, and please provide evidence.

[DLG]

And adding pressure to scum is good.

Agree, 100%.

Let's go! More votes!

[DLG]

I was the leading wagon. You would probably get me to L-1 quick. I just saved you a lot of time.

And, at the same time, completely contradicted the best reason to be voting LynchMePls.

We have to lynch LMP today if we don't want more claims

@ vezokpiraka
Please explain what it was that had happened that made you believe werewolf555 was scum.

Still waiting for an answer to this. Confine your answer to actions by werewolf55 before his claim, and please provide evidence.

Still being ignored by vezokpiraka.

Where did you EVER say that you found Zyrc suspicious? And suddenly it's "I wouldn't hesitate to vote him?" I CALL BS.

Still being ignored by vezokpiraka.

As for your bandwagonning charge against him, if there is anything I've learned about Vezo, he wagons all the time as town.

Meta, schmeta. Scum bandwagon all the time, and not being able to give even a semblance of an answer as to why he's doing it in these particular instances is a scum tell.

Vezo claims early all the time.

So? In this case, it is scummy because it was unprompted and he presumably understood that he wasn't at claim point and understood the anti-town impact of doing so.

Sheeping isn't always scummy, but ignoring questions about doing it is. Claiming early is always bad play, and particularly scummy in this case. Add these onto the other marks against vezokpiraka.

Obvious bad play with obvious scum motivation. VI meta is not sufficient defense. This is a very good lynch for Day 1.

[DLG]

Glad to be part of a win. After the way early and suspicious claim by werewolf555, I really didn't know what to do with my Miller role. So, I just barrelled ahead with trying to find scum.

My apologies to vezokpiraka. Glad I didn't take that bet, lol.

Should I have claimed Miller or not?

Thanks to everyone for a fun game.