Mini 1120 - X-Files - Game Over

[lewarcher82]

I'm in. I will do my best to catch up and post a lot before deadline, though I only have 48 hours.

[lewarcher82]

I'm in. I will do my best to catch up and post a lot before deadline, though I only have 48 hours.

Before you get too involved... would you tell us what you know about Jack's daykill?

sure. As far as I see Jack faked a daykill, right? Well, I have only played with Jack in one large normal, he was a VT and pretended to be a role who had "special information" about the role of the tracker (game is Large Normal 119, you find the link in my wiki-page)... I guess he is simply keen on bluffing (which hardly ever does any good; it sure did not in that game, at least)... on the other hand, I really don't understand martiya's (or what her name is) over-reaction, but this may be because of the fact that I didn't read the whole game, yet... please notice that I am on German time, it's 11:57 AM and I am starting my lunch break (so I quote by memory, didn't check the exact words Jack used in that game: check it out, please, it may provide meta you can use to read jack's activity, while you wait to start reading mine)... I will not be able to complete the re-reading and to post until tonight.

[lewarcher82]

too many claims for a mini on day2...

@GMan: please, explain me one thing. In your ISO 36, after doing some rather inconsistent posts about Amor, Sotty and Jack, you ask Haylen to post her thoughts about the mari/jack exchange. What did you read in it, and what did you expect from haylen's answer?

@Friend: I have won a game as SK having everyone believe I was a vig. Why is Jahudo "almost confirmed town"?

@pappamus: you read camm's opening post as a roleclaim of a killing role and blocked her. This is your claim, right? Why did you? Do you think she was softclaiming scum/sk? Strikes me funny, when I see a softclaim, I generaly assume it is pro-town. About your 502: what Dekes was thinking is evidently that a scum who pretends to be RB will state to having blocked another scum player the night two kills go through... how is your 502 anything more than a poor omgus?

@Antihero: you are confusing me... it may be that fever helped, but your gambit is way more complex than I thought... Dekes's argument about pappa/camm interaction was fully justified by the circumstances... and it is unlikely that scum would have fallen for your claim/report...

@Amrun: you have completed 3 games. I didn't consider myself a noob when I had completed 3 games. This sounds weird to me... I need to understand how much you rely on the excuse: I am a noob... your comments on the way you would act as noobscum are a paradox. A noob does not know how to act.

More in a post still-to-happen... believe it or not, it's 8 pm and I am home, but my boss wanna work on skype with me for the whole night... shit

[lewarcher82]

Sounds like lewarcher purposely searched for the daykill even though he hadn't read up to that point. That isn't the towniest way he could have responded, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't respond that way as town.

@lewarcher: You should have had all the information you needed to answer that question from your role PM, so why did you choose to read through Jack's posts after seeing camn's question?

Don't be ridiculous. Jack "shot" and no one died. It was obviously a gambit. Read the first line of my previous post. If you want a claim from me, ask me to claim, not to comment on a gambit.

Also, I don't normally use words such as "ridiculous" and I get mad at people who do. But please: if I had something to hide I would have not posted anything before I had carefully read the whole context. Try harder Jahudo, this won't work.

[lewarcher82]

@Jahudo: because it was so evident that he "shot" and no one died, so I assumed you guys wanted me to comment on his gambit, not to tell you that it was a gambit. And that is what I did.

@Amrum: I am not misrepping, I am asking. Why so jumpy? Thanks for clarifying, I had not checked the dates of the games. You will agree that if I join in, I see "amrun is new here", "amrun is new there", then I check and see you have 3 completed games, it is a legitimate question to ask.

[lewarcher82]

I thought you were accusing me when the dates were obvious.

I still think it was an attempt to misrep when I say in the beginning of the game it was the first game I started in. I was clear then, so why bring it up now?

Alrite then, I misrepped you on purpose, hopping to get you lynched for having played 3 games. Seriously, I am not gonna check your meta any further. You have answered, I am happy with your answer and I have 5 days to try and do something useful...

@Haylen: I am not sure if I understand the last part of your case on Dekes. (ISO 4). Can you summarise it for me? Would help me catch up.

@Dekes: I do understand the first part of Haylen's case. Why should a player at L-3 claim early in game? Were you proposing a nameclaim or a roleclaim?

@GMan: ISO 28. It is evident tha rat has picked terrible words to express what he wanted to say. Still, your attack on him sounds like mere semantics to me. ISO 2. Do you think that scum usually hammers a townie? Do you think that scumjack normally does? Do you think there was an advantage for scum in hammering a townie? At my own risk in putting this point in discussion, I want you to articulate a little on that.

[lewarcher82]

GMan, please, include the name of the people you quoted... I thought I was drunk before I realised that the first two quotes in yo post are from me, but the last two are not.

And yes, it was ISO 27. And yes, "since it is scummy, scum won't do it, but since everyone knows scum won't do it, scum may do it" is the reply I expected... Infinitely recursive.

@Jahudo: no, I didn't need to have read up to that point. I read last page from the bookmarks, I saw cam's post and said: oh, Jack has tried a gambit, let me see. I checked, turned out he did in fact try a gambit. I read the reaction by the target of that gambit, and I posted my comments about it. Do you seriously think this is bringing us anywhere?

[lewarcher82]

Also: another question to Gman. A meta-question actually. You are not really in your first game, are you?

[lewarcher82]

Jahudo: I am now starting to think that you want me to focus on an unuseful defense against a really meaningless and weak excuse for a scum-slip-theory in order to prevent me from being abe to FoS someone and to cast my vote before deadline. Unfortunately, I have reasons that prevent me from thinking you are scum, at least for now.

Namely: Darla asked for claims twice. Scum would not do that. Too risky. I am not going to support a Darla lynch. This is a kind of game in which very little happened, and scum has no reason whatsoever to take any risks. For the same reason, I am leaning towards a townread of jahudo and camn. The first claimed with a kill he must have performed, camn came out with a name that is way to obvious to be a fake.

I am more bothered than I first thought by the fact that dekes started discussing the second kill. May look like scum who knows that theman was vigged and pretends not to by posting the opposite scenario. This may really be a case of rolefishing... a player smarter than an ape won't try to rolefish by calling a massclaim, but this is different and could be a smart mafia gambit.

FoS: Dekes.

[lewarcher82]

@Dekes: I do understand the first part of Haylen's case. Why should a player at L-3 claim early in game? Were you proposing a nameclaim or a roleclaim?

Neither. It was still a sarcastic response to camn's demand of a claim from me. I didn't expect her to claim at L-3 and she didn't until Amor put her at L-2. I don't like that she claimed before AH had a chance to clear things up.

I am more bothered than I first thought by the fact that dekes started discussing the second kill. May look like scum who knows that theman was vigged and pretends not to by posting the opposite scenario. This may really be a case of rolefishing... a player smarter than an ape won't try to rolefish by calling a massclaim, but this is different and could be a smart mafia gambit.

Stretch. I was rather simply stating the obvious.


Alright, I guess, I'm ready to end the day. The replacements can still share their thoughts if they like but I don't think I can process anymore at the moment before seeing more flips. The lack of town reads is disturbing and I still think there are strong scum hiding within lazy town, i.e. scum among camn, Jack/lewarcher and Sotty/Haylen.
So I will follow my strongest town read today and see how it goes. GMan is still in the pool and might as well be scum. Definitely coasted for a long time staying under the radar and I was onto him for a couple of times now.

Jahudo, what do you say, Darla or GMan today?

So the replacement (good old lew) is allowed to share his thoughts (FoS on you)

but he is compelled to pick either GMan or Darla? More scumpoints for you here.

Also: I completely disagree with you about both camn and Sotty. Being lazy is not a scumtell, not in this game. If I were scum here, I would not lurk, I would rather take advantage of the general lurkiness and try to lead town to mislynch. This does not mean that Sotty/Haylen is town, it just means that your argument is invalid to me. As for camn, I explained in my last post what I think.

@Haylen: your up-to-date opinion about Dekes, please.

[lewarcher82]

Your face is lazy!

Deadline is approaching. Post content, not filler, please.

[lewarcher82]

Your face is lazy!

Deadline is approaching. Post content, not filler, please.

By the way, my eye sockets van barely contain the depth of eye-rolling that I am doing right now.
Why don't you put your vote where your mouth is, replacement?

Because I would like to understand what people think of what I have written, because there is only one player voting Dekes right now and I asked this player a question. After the answer to this question I will cast my vote.

[lewarcher82]

@Haylen: your up-to-date opinion about Dekes, please.

to which I add: your up-to-date opinion about Gman, please.

[lewarcher82]

@Dekes: check my recent meta, I always question everyone when I replace in a game. Of course you didn't say I could not vote for you, not explicitely, but it was implied by your post, althoug your wording was more cautious. I provoked you because I had the feeling that you were hopping to avoid discussing the fos's on you until someone hammered GMan. And guess what, someone did and

it is you

.

@Dekes(2):

you asked for a claim from camn when she was at L-3, but it didn't bother you to hammer Gman without a claim

. You will hang tomorrow.

@Everyone: I am on damn German time (as everyone could deduce from my location: Germany), and I just woke up. I don't like waking up expecting the discussion to go on and find a hammer instead.

V/LA til tonight (GMT+1)

(but I guess end day scene will come sooner)

[lewarcher82]

generally traitors have the following features:

1) they don't appear guilty to cops;
2) scum does not know them;
3) they know scum.

Discuss.

[lewarcher82]

@camn: I have played 13 player games, scum is generally 3 out of 13. However, this is the first time I play in a 13 with a traitor. I have no idea if it is supposed to be 3scum+1traitor or 2scum+1traitor...

another topic for discussion: if we have 3 scum alive, this is mylo. If there are 2, we have a ML. How does everyone feel about this?

[lewarcher82]

let's make a deal, camn. I keep calling you camn, and you can keep calling me "scum" or "replacement" or whatever you like. But when I ask questions, I am allowed to wait for them to be answered. If you want answers from me, ask me some questions yourself. Sounds good?

[lewarcher82]

however, I see nothing wrong in answering my own question in this case. We may be on mylo (5 vs 3) or we may have a free ML (6 vs 2).

We should NL, and play tomorrow assuming it will be lylo. If it isn't, we will still have the advantage that by NL'ing today we will never hit mylo.

Tomorrow we will popcorn-MC.

However, even if we decide to NL, we should wait for deadline and use the time we have got today in order to discuss the game.

The only reason NOT do so would be assuming there are third parties that can join with scum. If there are and we NL, we may be screwed.

Therefore: please, let us discuss this option. Setup speculation in this situation is an important way to scumhunt.

[lewarcher82]

i blocked dekes last night, which means if there is a two person scumteam, it cant be camn and dekes.

how so? You blocked both of them the same night?

@Dekes: since you seem to think this was good posting, you can answer, too. How does the quoted statement make any sense? Did you just like it cuz it helps your slot?

---
reasons why NL would be mathematically a good option are the following:

option 1: mylo. If we ML we lose.

option 2: we are 6 vs 2. By NL'ing we eliminate the option of hitting a mylo in case we ML the first time. All there is to it. Simple math.
(why do people who dislike math play mafia? consider bowling)

@Dekes: expain me how the things I am writing are pointless.
-------
naming townreads: sounds interesting. Mine are basically the same I named yesterday. I am not FoSing Darla right now. I think camn is town: she is very active and she softclaimed very early. I am not sure about Haylen. I am gonna oper her ISO as soon as I have posted this.

[lewarcher82]

one last thing. I am liking this:

Nightkill speculation. I don't care how scummy or what big of a WIFOM trap is, it's information we have and we can use. And fact is, nightkill target number 1a was pappums rat. You don't let a town roleblocker alive, you just don't. Way too risky. More on that later. Nightkill target number 1b was Jahudo for being nigh confirmed and for being the most town person generally. Friend was nowhere near the top. Several explanations:
Either there was a inhuman genius at work who deduced from Friend's six words post-GMan claim that he was a cop or Friend or Bella breadcrumbed it anywhere (btw, Bella was pro mass nameclaim, wtf?). Or they have a role cop. Or Friend got killed because he was onto somebody.

...or pappums is not really a town RB. Is this impossible? If so, why?

[lewarcher82]

So how can you exclude they are a 2player-scum team? You just blocked 1 player each night.

All in all, I still think camn is town. But your fallacy is interestig... Are you just logicfail or did you post exaggerated conclusions in order to achieve something?

And how come dekes didnt notice, and even called you town on account of this dumb statemnt of yours?

And again: why are you alive if you are a RB? Speculate, explain, do somethng.

FOS: pappums

[lewarcher82]

as far as i know, in a game of mafia one person is supposed to send in the kill unless they die, and then the killing ability goes to another person on the scumteam. so unless jason lets different people send in the kill each night, camn and dekes couldnt both be scum in a two person scumteam.

nonsense. I have never heard of such a rule in other games. Where did YOU hear of it? Perhaps in jason's PM informing that you are scum?

And why are you alive, again? You know what? I think there is no town RB. I think you are lying. I have the reasons I posted in the last posts and one more argument, that is speculative and that I will not discuss in thread, cuz it would be dangerous.

@camn: you are making sense. I am fine with a nameclaim. We can make it popcorn, with camn picking the next one.

[lewarcher82]

@Dekes: discussing mylo is relevant because scum would know if we are on mylo or not, and if we are they would try to deny it. Therefore, the opinions of the single players may be informative. As for discussing how traitors work, it is also very relevant, because it helps reading Gman's interactions to other players (namely: he prolly defended scum, but scum prolly did not defend him, cuz they didn't know his role).
Can you please direct me to the posts that gave pappums towncred?

@Amrun: happy birthday!

@camn: I now obviously need to check the meta pappums provided. The fact that you are defending him, however, gives him some towncred, for reasons that I will not state here and now.

nameclaim: Marita Covarrubias

Dekes goes next.

[lewarcher82]

@Dekes: I will quit this discussion because it is pointless, but I wasn't playing dumb. I thought you had more than that single post to explain why you read pappums as townish.

Now back to us:

@Darla: you have been on site for 3 years and you expect that a in a nameclaim in a theme scum will claim scummy names? There are villains in the series, and they should exist in this game as well. Naturally scum used fake claims, and they managed to dodge the danger of a counterclaim even if we used popcorn. Therefore, they had fakeclaims and they used them.

On one thing, Darla is prolly right: I definitely believe the claims by the other two lone gunmen... they are not really alignment confirmed, but they almost are. Amrun and Dekes are unlikely to be scum.

@pappums(1): nice, so you are Deep Throat, right?

May I know what is the flaovur justification for you being a town RB???

@pappums(2): In the game you posted to prove that you genuinely thought scum has a forced order for submitting night actions there is no mention of what you are talking about in the scum qt posted by Vi, and the mod promised to post the PMs but then forgot to.

What kind of meta am I supposed to check???

@camn: you think we have 3 scum (= mylo) but you dislike the idea of a nl? Why? Saying that you dislike NL on unknown setup sounds like a nonsense to me.

[lewarcher82]

PART 1: about camn's post

As long as you think there are obvtowns, a nl would be stupid. This is correct. I am not quite there yet, tho.

Moreover, I still don't understand why pappums should be town. I made two points in my last post. He didn't answer. Do you find them irrelevant? Are you really not bothered by the fact that a claimed town RB is still alive? Huh, wait, you claimed to be scully early and you are still alive, too...

and what do you think of my flavour-related question? Should he answer or not?

PART 2: Friend's activity.

Friend was suspecting GMan, Amrun and Sotty (=Haylen). He was defending camn, jack (=me) and told jahudo was town.
After her nameclaim, I now think Amrun is town. The only chance scum killed him to protect a scum member would be if Haylen was scum.

This, or they have a role cop.

Or pappums is scum, and this would explain why killing a simple protown player was preferred to killing a town RB. After all, Dekes and pappums FoS'd each other for one day, and now they are considering each other town because of a weird report.

Camn, can I ask people for comments about what I wrote on friend, or will you be mad at me if I ask questions?

[lewarcher82]

huh... anti-ninja device failed... good job on Gman's scumlist.

[lewarcher82]

I already said where I would look apart from pappums, dekes. I would look at Haylen, and possibly at you. you either skim too quickly or select the contents to build scummy cases.

and there is a difference between saying that someone is unlikely to be scum and saying that someone is obvtown. ESPECIALLY on pseudo-mylo. I know better than thinking that flavour-claims actually

clear

anybody. I don't believe you don't see the difference. I think you are playing dumb on purpose to misrep me.

pappums: I asked you the flavour justification for Deep Throat being a town RB. Can I know it please?

[lewarcher82]

Your "case" on me is so empty and your timing is so perfect that you are either stupid or scum. And I don't think you are stupid Dekes.

Town, in general, is acting stupid. I am not gonna be lynched out of stupid reasons on pseudo mylo, robotface.

You and haylen must be a scumteam. If there is a third it's mylo.

Why would I, as scum, kill Friend, who believed my spot is town? Answer me, robotface, cuz I asked this already, and I am not answering your scum questions before you answer mine.

Vote: dekes

[lewarcher82]

Yes, people, and perhaps look at friend -> jack as well.

options for me: Haylen, Dekes, or NL. (pappums still has a question to answer)

In case of a lynch (even a lynch of 1 of my fos's), I would support a massclaim, because this may be mylo.

(oh, and Dekes, your name sounded genuine, but your play gets scummier every minute, and flavour is not as relevant as the way one plays. I had a case on you yesterday as well, so don't start shouting I backtracked: I did it twice, if you want to call a change of mind "backtracking"... but the first time didn't bother you, huh?)

pappums, for C's sake, tell me the flavour justification for Deep Throat being a town RB! I asked 3 times! You having a hard time making up something?

[lewarcher82]

omg you are UNBELIEVABLE! I asked Amrun a question about her newbness and it turned out there was a damn reason for it! Games that had just finished when I replaced in hadn't yet finished when she posted about her own experience!

And I am interested in flavour justification for pappums role because I find his gameplay scummy, I find it weird that he is alive after claiming, I find it weird that we have a town RB (and I don't wanna tell why right now) and I find it

significant

that he is not being able to answer this question. I am picturing a situation in which pappums has a scum role, faked a role claim and then used a fake name given by the mod, but guess what,

the name the mod provided him has nothing to do with the role he faked

, and now he is having a hard time inventing one.

Haylen and pappums: cases on you are being made and questions for you are being asked, you need to post.

[lewarcher82]

Amrun, "backtrack" is the most stupid accusation after "rolefishing". Scum does neither. This is not epicmafia.

I called the scumteam: Haylen, Dekes, if there is a third is pappums. Still convinced. If I am wrong about one of them, then it is Darla, cuz Darla has a nameclaim that sounds fake, but I wouldn't rely on flavour too much.

If town decides to vote Haylen, I will unvote Dekes and join the wagon, but I will need her claim before she dies. Pappums needs to come back and answer my question. After that, I will consider lynching him. No one else is going to get my vote, unless something new happens.

[lewarcher82]

@Dekes: I see no reasons to think Amrun is scum and I did not include her in my scum list. She has a convincing nameclaim, like you. Unlike you, she is not being scummy. What is your point in asking me this question?

@Amrun: if they did, they were poor players.

g'night

[lewarcher82]

what a pain is this game...

1) I already went over my train of thoughts about things. You are posting my alleged contraddiction over and over again. You are not even good at tunneling. Unfortunately, town appears to be unable or uniterested in discussing things.

2) pappums rat: I have no idea of what you are talking about? Underhanded deeds? I don't follow you. When you will get to the computer next time (about 48 hours from now, I guess), just comment on the present situation instead.

Darla's name is fakable because it is a minor character. I have a hard time thinking that we had a mulder but we have no scully... but a bill mulder does not need to exist. This is what I meant.

I insist that gameplay > flavour. On the other hand, I, camn and Dekes are the only ones who are actually playing this game. This does not help, and is the reason why I have to refer to flavour regarding some players.

Since it may be mylo and we are not going to NL, I officially propose a popcorn massclaim. SInce I don't trust pappums, I would like Jahudo to pick the first.

[lewarcher82]

I am against massclaim, and will not participate.

so we are playing a day that may be mylo lynching someone without claims?

Darla: you need to play the game or replace out. You are doing nothing.

Amrun: you need to post content. You are just sheeping.

pappums: you are basically doing nothing, too.

Jahudo: come back and post, comment on me, Haylen, Dekes.

Haylen: you are ridiculously scummy because you active lurk and try not to answer the case on you. Plus, friend's and gman's activity point to you being scum. Post the content you promised. I am moving my vote on you. Both for pressure and because you are scum.

Unvote; Vote: Haylen

Also: do you think camn is scum? Camn early soft-nameclaimed, and her general playstyle is very town (I posted on this already: please ISO me andanswer the points I made about camn being town). To this playstyle-related arguments, we have to add a flavour-related argument. Her name is unlikely to be scum, and it is unlikely that the mod designed a game with mulder and without scully... how do you explain this?

[lewarcher82]

Bullshit. I asked you questions when I joined the game. You ignored them. Then I announced I wasn't sure about you and I said I was going to look at your ISO in my post ISO 18. After which I did it and started FoSing you. Back then, no one had started a case on me. Also note that I and camn reached the conclusion that you are scum following two different paths posting more or less at the same time. How can you call this "opportunistic"?

Try a better defense, once you have rested and you feel like you are willing to do some non-empty posting. People said that GMan's actions point to you being scum, and I added that you were the player who was threatened by friend. If you were town, you would be trying to find alternative interpretations of these facts.

[lewarcher82]

I said I was going to read your ISO. Once I was done, I posted about you. And you are scum. When I wrote my case on you, camn had not posted hers, yet. This is conclusive. Also, the scumteam you are calling is ridiculous. Post cases. Explain the interactions. What you are doing is terrible posting: you are simply attacking everyone who is attacking you.

[lewarcher82]

@Haylen: pathetic. You did not quote the post (ISO 24) in which I started fosing you, 8 minutes after camn's post, which I had not seen. Can't you even lie properly?

@Amrun: your case on Jack was empty. Anyone who has played more than 5 games and don't say so is scum.

@Darla: you shouldn't join games if you don't want to play them.

@camn: I am honestly wondering why is Scully still alive.

@Dekes: you belong to the category of players I am referring to in my comment on Amrun.

@pappums: your activity critically decreased after I called you scum, and you failed to provide flavour justification for your role. If there isn't, ok. I have no idea if roles are justified flavorwise.

@jahudo: you are a claimed pr and considered basically clear by everyone. And you are alive. See my comment on Scully.

All in all, I think the general analysis of this game is mistaken. We failed to deeply consider the reasons for some players being still alive. On the other hand, as I joined in I was attacked by empty cases built by Jahudo and Amrun against Jack. I was unable to face them and to properly catch up at the same time.

I failed to understand what is going on, and the absence of critical thinking by town is preventing my already tiny brain from making any step foreward. Therefore I am replacing out. Or you can lynch me and lose the game. Won't ruin my record that bad.

mod: apologies, I am not interested in playing anymore. I am asking for replacement

[lewarcher82]

oh, forgot to unvote.

Unvote

last post by lew