Time Travel Mafia (Game Over)

[GhostWriter]

/confirm

Glad so many of you paid attention to the voting rules.

And speaking of the rules, I fully expect everyone to read them all. None of that 'hehehe I never read rules' bullshit, because you all knew this would have special mechanics, and not knowing them is extremely anti-town at best. So I'd like to nip that crap in the bud.

[GhostWriter]

I am not going to the nomination stage this early. Quite frankly, with these mechanics in place, there will be no RVS. And threatening to hang me over it will get you no where.

[GhostWriter]

I'm not trying hard to do anything other than make sure everyone is aware of the rules. And based on some comments after my post, it was worth it.

[GhostWriter]

Go read the rules.

[GhostWriter]

I`ll read the mechanics another 5 times by yesterday and join the discussion soon after




.....OK i`m back

Well played.

[GhostWriter]

Um, why did you guys think we were required to post previous experience with crazy mechanics? For the lulz?

[GhostWriter]

The only person to have said anything of "uber townie" level is Chrono.

Kdad's OMGUS, however, is noted.

[GhostWriter]

EBWOP: Kcda's

[GhostWriter]

The OMGUS wasn't towards Amrun. It was at Exe.

[GhostWriter]

What I don't see is the alleged buddying.

[GhostWriter]

I went back to read it in context. That isn't buddying. You made a reference, he recognized it BEFORE MOST OF THE PLAYERS HAD CONFIRMED IN A 'CONFIRM IN THREAD' GAME.

[GhostWriter]

Oh, he was supposed to take it the same way Amrun did despite getting the reference? You're grasping.

[GhostWriter]

I'm attacking you for a shoddy OMGUS, and you've desolved into calling it chainsawing. You're not grasping, this is closer to flailing. Your vote/FomS/whatever was based on him pointing at you. Nothing more, it would seem.

[GhostWriter]

Look, I'd like a post, by Amrun, that concisely explains to me why that specifically was scummy.

[GhostWriter]

I find it odd that, whilst claiming to want more discussion on Amrun/Kcda, Smargaret does not ask questions of them. Several people have been interested in their interaction, but they usually follow up with questions. She'll be fairly high on my list.

[GhostWriter]

I figured that'd get you in here.

If that's what you wanted to know 4 pages ago, you should have asked 4 pages ago. You ask for discussion and never clarified a single thing, asked no questions, and pretty much ignored all else.

[GhostWriter]

I said pretty much ignored. Which holds true. You posted a null read on Ranger. Good job.

Amrun: Clearly, one of us misread what she posted. Pretty sure Smar called you distancing scum. That's not exactly buddying. Also, if I got my answer out of you, why do I need to follow it up? Do you want a pat on the back or something? I'm glad you answered it, but getting a follow-up if I found nothing worth discussing further after your answer?

[GhostWriter]

Kcd you seem obsessed with Amrun. Why is that?

This. The majority of what Amrun is doing is saying, repeatedly, that you are at the top of her list. And you keep calling it active scumhunting and pro-town. Makes you look like scum.

[GhostWriter]

Once again: YOU are distancing from HIM.

[GhostWriter]

Oh, you meant Smar? No, Smar doesn't call you town. Smar thinks you're scum.

[GhostWriter]

No. Comprehension fall.

I know smargaret thinks I am distancing kcdaspot.

I gave buddying to me as a reason I suspect kcdaspot in response to a question by smargaret.

In the non-existent reality where kcdaspot is on the same scum team with me, he is not distancing at all and if you think so then I don't know what to say.

His intense buddying is a reason I suspect him, as townbuddying is quite common amongst scum.

Ah, my mistake, I read it wrong.

oh so there IS a vote count now..

VOTE: GW

why so aggro?

Respond to the post and stop deflecting.

[GhostWriter]

I have been everywhere. To call me out on tunneling it pathetic. Define "aggro".

[GhostWriter]

EBWOP: To call me out on tunneling

is

pathetic.

[GhostWriter]

When I begin swearing like a sailor, then we'll have something to base that on. Furthermore, go check up on my iso before basing my play on one game and running with it.

And, again, how am I tunneling?

[GhostWriter]

Why is everyone ignoring Ranger? I don't understand.

I am ignoring him because the case isn't going anywhere without Ranger posting more. I see more interesting prospects. If it makes you feel any better, he's not exactly low on my list.

[GhostWriter]

Who already announced he'd only have his cellphone for the weekend. So you're not reading the very person you're assigning scum-points to? Interesting.

[GhostWriter]

It said try. From a phone. Jumping on his case Monday night = fine. Jumping on his case right now = attempting to look pro-town by attacking a player under scrutiny with cheap points.

[GhostWriter]

I'm not attacking him at the moment. I'm still waiting on his response anyways...

Why was my question towards Ranger became ignored?
+Scum-tell to Ranger. . .

Right...

[GhostWriter]

If you haven't noticed, I have a habit of calling shenanigans when the ball is a sphere and the hoop is a triangle.

[GhostWriter]

Something is irking the hell out of me, and I honestly thought one of you would have picked up on it by now. Doombunny originally says that talking about game related mechanics no longer mattered and that we shouldn't continue talking about it. After pressure, he does some insane backpedaling and is suddenly claiming to have said that he thinks that both the discussion HE inturrepted with fairly pointless questions and the pointless questions themselves were fine. Crazy backpedaling indeed. Take a looksie. I've bolded all my favorite parts.

Question:

Does any of this really even matter anymore.

I'm pretty sure everyone knows by now that there are crazy lynch and night mechanics so there's

no need to keep talking about it

and going off on tangents. I understand that it may be confusing to some but

after three pages, we should be having some discussion about things other than mechanics

. So as of right now I'm going to declare this a

RQS

to (hopefully) get the ball rolling:

@Everyone-What is your opinion of policy lynches and Lynch all Lurkers/Lynch all Liars in particular?
Have you played with any of the people in this game before?
How active are you?

Shutting down tactic discussion for a discussion-starter. only purpose this serves is limiting tactic

Erm, where exactly was I trying to stop tactic discussion fully? Tactic and mechanic discussion is fine, just as long as there's enough gameplay discussion and scumhunting to go along with it. At that point in the game people were doing 95% mechanic discussion and 5% scumhunting which is why

I tried to stimulate more game related discussion.

So tell me what would you expect to provide more 'potentially usefull'-content:

1.
- What is your opinion of policy lynches and Lynch all Lurkers/Lynch all Liars in particular?
- Have you played with any of the people in this game before?
- How active are you?

or

2.
What is more usefull:
- voting in such a fashion that timetravel can`t interfere with the votes(scum-proof)
- or so that we can (confirming liars/bringing back confirmed innocents)

They both provide useful content

, just in different ways which is why

I said both types are fine

, just as long as it doesn't get in the way of scumhunting. We can have both of these types of discussion going on at the same time. Using number two as the majority of discussion, how would you expect to catch scum?

Of note on this last one is the last line. Apparently, you can catch scum with the first one being used as the majority of discussion.

Also, note that he says that we should have more going on by page 3 of a game with extremely weird mechanics. Before that post, Amrun began to suspect Kcda, Smar had begun pointing at Amrun about interaction with Kcda, Exe was pressuring Kcda, and Trow was pressuring Exe. Seems like a good start to me, whilst discussing game related mechanics. I assume mafia know a bit more of the mechanics than we do and he wanted to keep it that way. The buddying to me he feels like he's been doing also bugs me. Especially when talking about Kcda buddying to Amrun.

-------------------

Honestly, at this point, I've got my list fairly down pact. I'm almost ready to go. Should get the middle organized WAY before enough of you are also ready. Plus, I need to gather some more info for my theories on how the time travel mechanic will work. Thought up some stuff at work that seems plausible. But I need to see all the stages to be certain.

Vote: Lynch

[GhostWriter]

I plan to. Once I decide which one is 3rd and which is 4th. I think I've just about got a feel for a 3-man scum team. 2 of them have been linked, to me, and I've actually already hinted on them in one of my older posts. I just need to do some meta to see if someone has earned the 3rd spot or not. I hate doing meta, so it might take a while. Especially since I intend to go play LoL for a little bit first.

[GhostWriter]

Righto, been prodded. That's my bad, went and got Mortal Kombat yesterday, which kinda stopped me from really doing anything online other than update Facebook that I had the game...

Anyway, this is my list, as it stands now.

1. DoomBunny
2. Amrun
3. GreyICE
4. Kcda
5. Ranger

The order doesn't much matter for these. Well, they matter, but not enough for you to really be concerned with them.

6-9: Smar, Chrono, Tragedy, Mist

10-12: RC, Trow, Exe

I've explained my top two, but about the third: I can't read Grey as town. And that scares the shit out of me, because I usually can. 6, 7, 8, and 9 could be in any order they wanted, it means nothing much to me just yet. I might tweak it some more later. Same with 10, 11, and 12. I separated them to represent my null reads and my town reads.

To Mist: I am being quite serious with this, and with no ill-will meant towards you: If you cannot handle this game better than you have been, and give it more of your focus and attention, then I really think you need to replace out now, while we're still on D1, and no time-mechanic shenanigans have occurred. Assuming you are town, your current playstyle makes you an incredible detriment to us. You can easily get rage-lynched later. Heaven forbid you make it to a lylo situation. You'll have no idea what's happened, and they can bs anything to cause you to cost us the game.

[GhostWriter]

I don't.

[GhostWriter]

It wasn't, but I figured this argument would be started up, so I'll let it happen.

[GhostWriter]

Because I think it's scum vs. town. Just because one of you is more scummy than the other, that other isn't cleared. So you both appear on the list.

[GhostWriter]

To get to a mafia? Hell yes. I'd self-hammer if I felt strongly enough that it'd cause scum to be lynched the next day. What kind of a question is that? 1 townie in exchange for 1 mafia? That's a hell of a deal. However, I do plan on going with the stronger scum read first, to try getting it right from the get go.

[GhostWriter]

You see what I see. Or rather, you aren't seeing what I'm not seeing.

[GhostWriter]

iso#0 does make a good pro-town point about the setup. But it's only a comment on the setup. No random vote or other remark to help get things going. To that extent it's a fence-sitting opening post, and could very easily be scum waiting to see what others think before deciding what opinions to go with himself. It's not what this post does say, it's what it doesn't.

I have some problems with this part specifically.

1) The point is pro-town. Doesn't matter what it's on, it's pro-town, you said so yourself. It either is or it isn't.
2) Random vote? I think I specifically mentioned that we cannot have any RVS going on because of the setup.
3) How is it fence-sitting?
4) What doesn't the post say that others made around that time do?
5) Why is set-up discussion bad, specifically at that point in time?

I sorta-read the rest, but it was mostly regurgitated stuff.

[GhostWriter]

More buddying language from DB9. Look, for those of you not voting to move to the next stage of the game, may I ask why? From what I read, there are a lot of strong reads and we can gauge more about the players as well as the setup after going through the whole lynch process. A lot of this seems to be devolving into circle-talking.

[GhostWriter]

My list has not changed, I believe. On a phone at work, so not going back to look for it. Also, placing a person 8th is the same as placing them 3rd in so far as them being nominated, right? It counts for voting, correct? I assume this because it's the only way I can see any of the time travel stuff working. Lists take effect after events are altered in the past, so we don't have to bother redoing days manually.

[GhostWriter]

What was it about that post that was absolutely townish to the degree that scum would never say it?

[GhostWriter]

Glad you admitted to skimming Trow's post. At least you could have read it first, so you'd know that he actually acknowledges the switch and then specifically asked Imaginality questions.

[GhostWriter]

- What? I want to lynch Chrono. I have for pages and pages.

I can see where I may have caused my confusion. You asked RC why he thought Chrono was town, RC said he already discussed this.

What we want to know is

why you tried to bring up something that was already discussed.

[GhostWriter]

I was bolding the buddying language. I have nothing more to do with that. It's why I posted it directly after the post where he says he doesn't see any such language.

[GhostWriter]

More buddying language from DB9.

[GhostWriter]

We did not do the same thing. I left nothing to the imagination. I specifically said buddying language. No one knew what it was, no one made guesses to what it was, no one made interpretations of it. I then pointed out what I saw as the buddying language. There was nothing more to say on the matter. You denying it, of all things, is certainly not going to make me want to defend my stance. Why defend my stance to the guy I think is scum? As for everyone else, they either agree with it, or they disagree with it.

As for the current trend of suddenly putting the two replacements on the chopping block, what the fuck kind of mafia are you fools playing at? They flip town and then what? We're back right where we bloody started, but a day behind: D2, no real content, all the same suspects as before. No new content based on flip, because they replaced lurkers. They haven't said enough for their flip to provide content. They are NOT good choices for today. Neither one.

[GhostWriter]

I did so explain how it was scummy. I said there was buddying language. I just didn't point out the language. What do you think I did, simply say that there was, and then hope someone else would find some in there and point it out for me? Does that make any logical sense?

[GhostWriter]

I am currently on my way out of state to say goodbye to a dying relative. I'm no where near the right state of mind to play anything right now. I'll likely be back some time tomorrow.

[GhostWriter]

1.3.2 The top two candidates are put on the block and have the right to make one and only one last post. Everyone else may post as normal.

[GhostWriter]

A fucked up claim causes an otherwise avoidable scum death. Chances are, unless it's incredibly obvious flavor-wise or from sheer blind luck, scum cannot guess the vanilla role name if it is not Vanilla Townie.

[GhostWriter]

Tragedy, are you even reading, or are you simply going with this new idea someone put out of Trow being scummy, so now you're attempting to make Trow loot worse?

[GhostWriter]

http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Janitor

[GhostWriter]

@GW- What was your reasoning for voting Kcda over Zinger?

Didn't get a revised list in before it ended. On my original list, Kcda was higher up than Zinger.

[GhostWriter]

Didn't get a revised list in before it ended. On my original list, Kcda was higher up than Zinger.

What do you mean by this? That the mod just used your original lynch list from the nomination phase or that you just sent in the same thing? If the former, this doesn't match up since Grey sent in a list during the nomination phase and he's now "not voting" and if the latter, I really doubt it takes that long to type "1. Zinger 2. Kcda".

I sent in 3 lists throughout that time. Each time, the order that I placed Kcda and Zinger changed whilst trying to make up my mind. The last one sent in had Kcda higher than Zinger, and I never got to switch it again before the day ended.

[GhostWriter]

They aren't going to role claim...

[GhostWriter]

Yeah, no, saying "Town X" isn't role claiming.

@DB9, I kept having internal conflict over Kcda's claim. I'd change my mind, put him in front of Zinger, change it again and switch them around, and then rinse and repeat.

[GhostWriter]

Truth be told, I've got an insane gut feeling Imaginality is scum. Since all gut feelings are based on something registered by the subconscious, I'm gonna try going over his posts to figure out why I feel like this. Just letting you all know this A) to, admittingly, prod-dodge while I take time to do this and B) so no one is surprised if he jumps up my list.

[GhostWriter]

He stated he went forward and that the kill is happening tonight. There was no kill, possibly due to mafia going through time for their kill, a doc protect, a town RB, a jailer, ect., ect., to the point that speculation is pointless and anti-town.

[GhostWriter]

It bothers you not to be able to see RC as scum?

[GhostWriter]

no.. i'd rather use it n2.

I felt that because of the other powers specifically my protect power, to do it n1 is useless.

Why?

[GhostWriter]

Let me clarify: if you have the ability to use a time machine to go to any point in the game, I don't see how you could use your other powers as a defense for why you didn't confirm yourself as quickly as possible. Dragging it out does indeed look off.

[GhostWriter]

I'm sorry, but you haven't answered a thing to me. Maybe I just can't understand what you wrote. There was a lot of pointless "..."-ing going on, in some misguided attempt to how hesitance in your thinking, or whatever, and it just seems contrived and forced. You'll live through today, but you're back to #4 on my list.

[GhostWriter]

I didn't like when GhostWriter claimed a gut scum read on me and said I 'might' go up his list. It seemed like he was trying to make sure he wouldn't get in trouble for changing his suspects. The way he did so pre-emptively seems overly cautious. And also allows him to fence-sit on me for a while before his iso read either backs up his gut or contradicts it.

Speaking of which, what did you conclude, GhostWriter?

That you react like a survivalist.

Before I said that, I was ranked on the bottom of your list, amongst those you considered "townier" (yay, now you get to say "but I didn't call you town", except you don't, because you got as close as you'll get, so it's the same thing next to mod/investigation confirmation). However, when I mention a gut read of scum on you, you jump to the defense before I ever post an actual read, and slid me right on up to your top 3 scumreads. For the record, I didn't actually iso you. You know, that whole "never posted my findings" thing kinda gave that away. Now, had you actually shown up on my list, out of the blue, with continued lack of backing to it, then you could go ahead and get riled enough to move me to spot 3, and have it make some sense. But getting scared from just the threat of intent? Oh, can't forget when you called me overly-cautious. Cautious of what? I'm seen as the most town player in the game, several lists have proven it. And I certainly didn't get that from being cautious. If I had, you'd have said so earlier when I was still town to you, before I stated the gut scum read. Maybe that's why you're getting worked up: think I might have some kind of leeway with the path of players votes? Congrats, you handled pressure like a pro.

[GhostWriter]

Are you, at any point in the near future, going to get serious about the game? Or at any time, actual, cause some people really never do.

[GhostWriter]

Learn to read, GhostWriter. I called you cautious specifically about how you used your gut read on me to pre-emptively justify maybe moving me up in your list. Not in reference to your gameplay previously.

Which was the entire point...

[GhostWriter]

Oh, what the fuck, Tragedy...

[GhostWriter]

Game is stagnating. Furthermore, I've got enough from the previous day, as well as this one to go ahead and VOTE: Lynch with peace of mind. Mostly, I need a flip, not gonna lie.

[GhostWriter]

Game is stagnating. Furthermore, I've got enough from the previous day, as well as this one to go ahead and VOTE: Lynch with peace of mind. Mostly, I need a flip, not gonna lie.

Expand on this.

My list is essentially the same as it was yesterday, with Imaginality rising high enough to get a top 2 spot. Amrun takes the other spot.

[GhostWriter]

When I posted the link, we were discussing the role being janitored. I was posting it to show that a janitor janitors at night. I had never seen it done at any other time.

Amrun, along with the things that got you there yesterday, your survival-over-hunting attitude is certainly part of it.

[GhostWriter]

Sure will make it easier to get Imaginality lynched then.

[GhostWriter]

Either I will get a flip, and know we have a janitor, or I won't, and know we're most likely in a no-flip game. However, I'd like to assume we have a day janitor. I didn't know there was a such thing as a day-janitor until she said it. I was, indeed, implying this might be a no-flip game until that.

[GhostWriter]

Imaginality, welcome to the wonderful world of reaction testing. I didn't have a good read on you, I threatened to vote you so I could see what would happen. Your reaction was scummy. I fail to see how me wanting you lynched for something scummy is scummy because I tricked you. Doesn't change what you did.

There is no contradiction: if there are 2 people on the chopping block, and I send in 3 lists, changing the 2 people each time, then the 3rd one is the exact same as the original list. So I gave him back the original list. But I've gotta ask: where would this line of questioning go?

For the record, I agree that my towniness in the eyes of others is a bit odd. I don't think I did anything incredible for the town. Doesn't change that it's there, though. And that I am completely aware of it. So that point is moot. As I said, regardless of the reason I'm there, I am, indeed, there in a number of eyes. Actually, I think I only get called scum when I target someone else as scum. Hint hint, no matter how you try to gussy up this OMGUS attack, it's still just an OMGUS attack. Also, where was this point about my towniness going? It could possibly impact the point I made about it before, so where were you thinking of taking it?

[GhostWriter]

At work, but decided to take my break time before the end of the shift to let you all know why Amrun should be up there with Imaginality come the end of today. Remember those hints she's going on about leaving for RC? The ones they rest of us weren't supposed to catch? She assumed mafia caught them, but not any member of the town other than RC. One person, not everyone, not a few, not a couple, one. I'm gonna guess she knew he was town (because she's pretty much flat-out calling him town) due to the fact that he wasn't on her team. Scumteam, of course. Why else would she entrust something that's as important as role info to one person in the game whose alignment you couldn't possibly be sure of? No doubt the mafia have the info she placed, since she told them what she did herself. They were probably planning to point it out themselves, saying something like "Look what I found! Amrun's not scum, guys, cause I found her breadcrumbs and the gingerbread house it led to didn't have a cannibalistic witch in it!"

[GhostWriter]

Or just plain ol' scum. I'd assume they also aren't Casual Bystanders. Killing people usually isn't casually. Unless you're Deadpool.

There is no contradiction: if there are 2 people on the chopping block, and I send in 3 lists, changing the 2 people each time, then the 3rd one is the exact same as the original list. So I gave him back the original list. But I've gotta ask: where would this line of questioning go?

iso52: "

Didn't get a revised list in

before it ended."

is not the same as "I sent a revised list in, then another list after that."

Now you're seriously just nitpicking, which is getting quite sad. I didn't think I'd need to go that far in-depth when I first explained it. And then I got asked about it again, so I went more in-depth. And then I got asked about it again, so I went even MORE in-depth. What is the point you're trying to get at with all of this? Trying to make me look bad, so no one follows me, because they certainly wouldn't nominate me based off of the crap you're bringing to the table.

[GhostWriter]

GW, what are you smoking? They were for everyone. Of course everyone saw them. I knew RC would and asked if he'd seen them at one point. Why would I ever go about doing any of that for one person? Especially since my gut tells me that person isn't town?

RC, I have left several deliberate hints

for you in particular

, since you seem to be reading my posts carefully.

The fact that you have failed to address them at all is raising alarm bells in my mind. You've seen them. I can guarantee scum have seen them.

Bolded it.

[GhostWriter]

No, out of that, I see it as you leaving things specifically for him to find, so that he could "confirm" you. I'm pretty sure I was making that clear.

[GhostWriter]

It does make sense. It was you laying down a hint, in the hopes that RC would notice it and mention it, so you could have someone who's town back you. You got frustrated when this didn't happened, and so decided to try to make him mention them.

[GhostWriter]

You're right, what was I thinking. Why on earth would scum want a townie to pick up on a breadcrumb so that they could gain their support? I'm so stupid...

[GhostWriter]

Imaginality, welcome to the wonderful world of reaction testing. I didn't have a good read on you, I threatened to vote you so I could see what would happen. Your reaction was scummy.

Just to absolutely clarify did you actually have a gut feeling about imaginality being scum when you made the post or was that simply a gambit you made to get a reaction from a null read?

I had a null read on him, so I wanted to see how he reacted to pressure. Can't vote, so I threatened to add him high on my list.

[GhostWriter]

Looks like it'll be Amrun and GI on the chopping block today.

[GhostWriter]

We're at L-1. Exe and C-Worl got added to the 5 already voting.

[GhostWriter]

OH JOY! Lookie what we have here, guys: either 1 scum or 2 scum! We lynch Amrun. She flips scum, we've got one scum. She flips town, we lynch Kcda and Smar, and get a 1-to-2 town-scum tradeoff. It's a win/win-even-more situation. My favorite kinds of situations! Turning in an identical copy of my list right now.

[GhostWriter]

You know she can't respond, right?

[GhostWriter]

YES GW I CAN'T REFUTE YOU AND OPENLY ADMIT THAT.

for the sake of my sanity take each suspect out of the equation individually. pretend that in turn smag, amrun, and I aren't scum.

what are the other pairings?

Also GW answer this plz.

whenever ye get time. but at least sometime in the near future.

No. And I won't need to, barring a mod error. It's simple: one side is lying. No hidden tricks. No other PR's stepping up to confirm or deny. They all react how I am reacting: as if they are vanilla townie. Mafia get no information from any of the rest of us.

I don't have pairings, anyway. Hell, I think my top two have pointed fingers at each other.

[GhostWriter]

I don't care about the claims. I care about the fact that we have two opposing sets of information. One says the mod gave a PR a copy of the vanilla townie role name. The other says the mod didn't do that for PRs. As there is no reason to give one a copy and not the rest, this presents a conflict. We have the chance to lynch one person and either have them flip mafia, or have them lead us directly to 2 mafia AND have a floating doc save out there NOT TO MENTION the chance at revival. How this is anything short of a no-brainer is beyond me.

[GhostWriter]

Let me see if I have this right: you have a problem with his reads changing as the game goes on?