Mini 1176: Dexter Season 2 (Game Over) Who Won?

[Sotty7]

Vote: Socio

Yes, yes!

[Sotty7]

thought you might like that for a change of pace.

Hell yeah

Triple D should join us too. I'm feeling greedy.

[Sotty7]

Hey Kid, why the Socio vote?

[Sotty7]

Well this is going to be easy.

Unvote, Vote: Amrun

[Sotty7]

Explain to me why exactly you are voting for tans, because I read post 50 and don't see a lot of anything there. Being defensive isn't a scum tell and he's jumpy? Did you even click the link he provided? It just feels an incredibly easy out for you especially with the whole "extending RVS is a scum tell, or wait it's not really" thing thrown in there.

The kicker is you hate on the KKN case for it not being explained, while at the same time not explaining your Tans vote until he outright asks you.

[Sotty7]

Is it the best case ever? No. It's also based on 2 pages.

I did click on the link, but that he went out of the way to provide it makes me think he could be abusing his own meta and is also a sign of over defensiveness.

I could have provided more reasoning on my vote, but others already had. In particular, I liked Locke Lamora's. I should have added my own, it is true, but I was being a little lazy.

Why is over defensiveness scummy? This is the second time you have referenced it in an attack on tans and yet didn't batter an eyelid when I said it's not a scum tell. Elaborate.

The second part of that post is just awful. “Others already had” is never a good answer and you do realize that Locke isn't voting tans right?

unvote

Vote:Lynchmepls

for blatant bandwagoning under the guise of a RV, which we are clearly past at this point. If there is a person willing to extend the RVS just a little bit, it would be here in post 46.

This vote is hilarious considering that you're guilty of exactly the same thing. Considering Kise's exchange with tans at the time.

Also, it's not that I

trust

tans self meta, but I have seen him a a couple of other games and he's not an overly strong player. I'd rather wait and see what else he has to offer RE: this game.

[Sotty7]

Scum tend to be overly defensive. It's nice if you don't regard that as a scumtell. I do.

Townies also have cause to be over defensive. Discuss.

KKN you are walking an extreme fine and pedantic line that surrounds RVS which I don't like. When exactly did RVS end according to you?

[Sotty7]

I think RVS ends when the first real suspicion of the game is voiced with at least a little back up. I would consider that the Kise/tans back and forth. I'm not sure how you could say it was a joke after post 36.

The point is everyone has different RVS opinions because it is a fluid state that doesn't really have a standard definition. I think you're abusing that fact to make LMP vote scummy so you can have a serious looking vote when really it's just OMGUS with a cute hat on. The fact that you are guilty of doing exactly the same thing as LMP yet you just brush it off as RVS joking is total BS. There is little difference in game state from your vote (post 30) and LMP vote (Post 46)

Unvote, Vote: KKN

That's five.

[Sotty7]

KKN, Kise's explanation did come after your vote so I can probably cut you some slack there. Still I look at your vote and LMP vote and they look the same to me. Using “RVS” as an excuse is pretty poor.

You have also said that you're not bothered about your wagon, commenting that some votes aren't even explained. I would think trying to figure out why others are voting you would be somewhat important. Even more so since it came after you made some posts. I just get the sense you are trying to act super cool with hopes people will start looking else where.

Townies CAN be overly defensive, especially if PR. But I see it more often out of scum, jumping at their own shadows. And meta has been posted of tans acting very different as a town PR.

This makes it a null tell because both scum and town do it. At best being over defensive is a situational tell and a weak one at that. But enough of these circles, what's your opinion on KKN?

Farside: I see that KKN is guilty of the same thing as LMP and so his vote doesn't make sense to me. Maybe it's something only I see because no one else seems bothered by it. I'm also not swayed by the tans meta arguments that are happening.

[Sotty7]

Sotty: What's you thoughts about how he jumps from player to player who has attacked him so far with very weak reasoning? I think the only one I found maybe valid was Hinduragi, but I didn't read all his games. I only looked through some of them and I didn't see him vote hop in the ones I was able to look through.
Look at his vote on KKN here This looks like blantantly jumping on a BW because the reason's are not even there. The Amrun vote is not even based on fact and his vote on Budja comes after Kise ask him why he didn't vote for Budja in the first place. I typically see scum vote after someone pointed out the lack of vote.

Your point about tans KKN is actually pretty good, that had slipped under the radar for me. It does look like obvious wagon hopping. However, I thought his Amrun vote was for her not explaining her initial reasoning despite criticising the KKN wagon votes for doing the same thing. Am I missing something there?

[Sotty7]

Okay reading back, it went more like:

Amrun votes tans with no reason
tans asks her why
Amrun explains
I show up vote and pressure Amrun
After our back and forth tans shows up with a vote for Amrun which he quickly abandons.

tans why didn't you switch your vote to Amrun right away if you felt her lack of reasoning was scummy? It looks like you waited until there was already pressure there to vote.

[Sotty7]

I think get what tans is saying.

Amrun only posted a reason to her vote

after

she was asked. After she gave the reason she then complained that votes with reasons are bad. This was the tipping point that caused tans to vote Amrun because she didn't provide her reason unprompted and was therefore just as guilty as the people she was criticising.

Right?

KKN: Do the number of votes people have made so far mean anything? Cause it looks like filler at this point.

Heh, VP pretty much goes where I was going with the above comment RE: post 128

Mod: I am going to be V/LA this weekend. I'll try to get a post in but I don't know how likely it will be.

~Noted.

[Sotty7]

I'm back today and will catch up soon. My V/LA went a little longer that I thought it would.

[Sotty7]

Socio looks provocative rather than scummy.

How'd you tell the difference?

Unvote, Vote: Socio

He's done zero scum hunting while putting someone at lynch-1. His responses to the vote on him are really weak and I don't like it. I have seen TownSocio hunt scum as well as posting his one liners I'm not seeing a lot that here. Dodgedodgedodge.

Amrun having a running commentary on who needs to give content is funny considering she seems to be avoiding content herself lately. Thoughts on Socio? Are Kise's actions scummy? Why are you sitting on your vote and not actually doing anything with it?

Farside tunnelling on tans is also raising my heckles.

[Sotty7]

I am sitting on my vote a bit, but I don't have that much else to say about it as of right this second. Tans keeps repeating the behaviors that I found scummy in the first place.

I find Budja scummy, too, but he is absolutely not scum with tans.

I find the first statement to be pretty hypocritical considering how you are demanding content from others. The second part is more interesting though, why can't they be scum together?

[Sotty7]

The way they are attacking each other does NOT read like a bus, at all. Do they read like a bus to you?

I suppose not. I was wondering if it was something more you saw that “it's not a bus.”

@Sotty, why would he? What does scum-Socio get out of it?

Answering a question with a question... Not cool.

Yo, Socio who is scum? Getting stuck on this self meta repeat makes me happy with my vote.

Are you claiming survivor Kise?

[Sotty7]

My gut reaction is to lynch survivor claims but Kise seems to be suggesting he is some kind of finder or something. Plus this is a Dexter game there is bound to be a vig/sk/??? kill floating around. Kise would be a good shot.

VP seems to be fluttering all around like a butterfly but I'm willing to cut him a little slack. He says he is having trouble getting into the game and his little attacks on people have looked like attempts to either get something going or figure something out. However I don't get why budja is scummy for wanting to lynch a survivor, but I would like budja to explain why he went from “don't name claim” to wanting a name claim. That part doesn't quite add up for me.

Farside feels on the outside of everything. For some reason no one seems to be paying her a lot of attention either and it just feels strange to me. I do agree with her most recent post about budja though. He smells like an easy wagon at this point.

I've played with LMP a few times and I've never seen him so sheepy. He's buddying up to me and that tends to be a weak spot of mine. I would really like to see more content from him. I have him null leaning scum right now.

I'm starting to like Amrun as town now. I like how she has been responding to me.

[Sotty7]

Well how you jumped from Socio to LMP in particular. It felt like you were trying to find a footing somewhere. What do you think of Socio now?

Isn't the survivor wincon directly detrimental to a town win? It's one less townie to kill right? We can probably do better for a day one lynch true, but Kise is an excellent vig shot unless he is a finder, who's wincon changes later in the game.

[Sotty7]

budja has done a couple of things I don't like, not directly answering questions for example. But I am struggling to see how he is scummy for wanting a Survivor lynch.

[Sotty7]

@Sotty, I didn't care about a name claim, I meant a role claim. Before I was interesting to know why he was sharing the information without compromising any role info that should stay secret. After the claim, as a survivor, I wanted to know everything.

But that's not what happened. When you said Kise doesn't need to claim in post 257 he had already claimed survivor in post 245 after I outright asked him. Kise then revealed a little more info and then you demanded a claim.

L-1 and no claim? @Sotty: that's cruel. I'm not sure what really comes with targeting rita or dexter, as that may also lead to a masonry/buddy system. Do you not want me to stay around and offer my opinion at least? Surely there's lie detectors, trackers, roleblockers, rolecops, COPS, etc. What, I should also lose with town if we don't lynch scum?

Sure you can stay around for a little while, but you should die before end game.

Farside once again you come in and don't actually comment on the hot topic of the moment. Opinion on Kise's surivior claim? Opinions on budja's reaction to it? Or even anyone's reaction?

Unvote, Vote: Farside

Maybe this will help you get more involved.

[Sotty7]

I didn't even register that hammer. I was too busy wondering why Farside was still in tunnel mode.

[Sotty7]

Vote count analysis process of elimination.

Currently reading up, but I agree Kise should full claim at this point.

[Sotty7]

I didn't even register that hammer. I was too busy wondering why Farside was still in tunnel mode.

Sotty: Is there a reason I should ignore Tans, especially with someone who stacks meta on me as doing it as scum only, which was a lie?

Err no, I never said ignore him. I'm pretty sure you can do more than two things at once. You almost completely ignoring the survivor issue in favour of tunnelling tans looks terrible. I'm pretty sure you're scum.

vote: Kise

You want to explain your hammer of Budja there without waiting for a claim?

Really? If this is so vote worthy why did you completely no sell the hammer when it happened?

Vote: Farside

tans argument that Amrun is fence sitting scum isn't good at all. It is another OMGUS position he has taken and it's getting more than a little old. He seems to be trying to force Amrun's posts into scummy positions. I'll be clear in that I don't see any fence sitting from her. I read it that her scum suspectes are tans/LMP/DDD. It's one thing if you think her budja vote was bad, but the rest of that is just ick.

I would like to know who Amrun thinks could be scum off wagon, but the fact she is locked into a pool of players that include her, feels town inclined, even if I don't agree.

Farside and LMP are my top suspects at this point. I don't get why tans is defending LMP because he has literally done nothing in this game. The game state isn't

that

bad to excuse this kind of play. I need to read back on the budja wagon as well, something I will get to later. Farside pushing Kise's hammer when it wasn't that important yesterday just really sticks in me. Her Kise vote and pressure is terrible and in my opinion an easy out that she thought would make her look good today. Not having it.

[Sotty7]

LMP finally waking up is good to see. I still standby my comment of saying you had done basically nothing in this thread because sheeping and just posting quotes without any further analysis is as close to nothing as you can get. The more content you post the better.

What's your opinion on Farside?

Really? If this is so vote worthy why did you completely no sell the hammer when it happened?

I didn't have a chance to respond after the hammer. I never posted after Kise hammered so yes I get to mention it at the start of the day.
Point?

For some reason I thought you had posted after the hammer. Looking back I was wrong. Still your scolding of Kise rings pretty false to me. It was clear why he hammered in the manner he did, I think your sniffing around for brownie points that aren't there.

Why aren't you voting for tans?

[Sotty7]

Farside nice OMGUS vote there.

You voted Kise because you thought he was scum yes? If so why don't you believe his claim? Also, why did you continue to tunnel on tans while letting your Kise vote sit? Why Kise over tans?

I think you came into today to pressure the hammer to look good "Oh no, why'd you hammer Kise that was so bad and no claim that is soooo scummy!" When it is clear to everyone else

why

Kise hammered like he did. I think you are padding your posts with tunneling and poorly thought out questioning that is adding little to game. This is why I think you're scum.

[Sotty7]

So in your view some who says I'm going to be anti-town and hammer a player without waiting for a claim should be allowed to just continue being anti-town without answering questions? Seriously?

Yeah I never said that.

You think Kise as scum, would claim survivor on day one in a game that is more than likely going to contain a vig/sk kill? I can't see how you could possibly believe that line of logic.

Now I'm suddenly scum? I'm finding that terribly convenient.

As for you I think you can see that in your post you call "OMGUS" and didn't answer my question by the way that I find you decided no matter what action I took I was scum today and were going to call me out.

I retracted my point about you ignoring the hammer because I realized I was wrong. That has nothing to do with you railing on Kise looking for town browine points so... What's your point?

I don't really like the vote on farside. I have screamed for farside's blood before annd she turned out to be town and'm just not feeling it here.

What do you think about her Kise vote?

In other news, LMP's “fake it till you make it” point isn't as basless as KKN or VP are trying to say. I used to suffer from it as scum, I think it was Vi who told me I was much more robotic as scum than as town. It's not a strong tell because some people just aren't passionate regardless. I'd have to look at KKN to judge.

[Sotty7]

Well, I think it's terrible, but not really seeing how it necessarily makes her scum.

How do you intend to get a read on Farside then?

Damn tans post 475 is really good buuut I'm not quite willing to vote Amrun. Her clearing of VP and other nit bits make me think she is town. I will look back again, but ugh, I don't like it much.

I need to put some work into this game but I am pretty busy today so it is going to have to wait till the weekend.

[Sotty7]

I'm sorry, I have been pretty sick with some kind of food poisoning this weekend. Blegh. I hope to catch up in this thread today if I have enough energy. There is one other game that also requires my attention so we'll see how it goes.

[Sotty7]

My point is that your saying I'm scummy for tunneling Tans, but your theory (which is really just an assuption based on no facts) is that I am looking at kise for browine points. But you also call me out for saying nothing about others in the game. Basically no matter my action you damned me and call me scum.
So if I continue to attack Tans and say nothing about anyone I'm scum. Since I said something about Kise I'm scum trying to make brownie points.
Now I ask again why are you damning my action no matter which path I take?
Are you afraid of what I may say? Are you afraid I may point out the WIFOM of LL's death to others that I see no one, including yourself has mentioned?
I'm willing to allow myself to be lynched and flip town to bring all these points out, believing you are scum trying to create a mislynch of me based on any action I took today. I see no town motive for damning my actions.

Also your being a hypocrite calling me out for tunneling today, which I haven't been doing, but you having been doing all day today to me.
Tell me Sotty's who is scum beside me?

Wow, lots of rhetoric here.

Yesterday you tunnelled hard, even to the point of ignoring the rest of the game. I point this out and you just say this is what you do. Not really acceptable at all. You ignored the survivor claim for the most part and continued with your back and forth with tans which was just completely meh.

I misread the end of yesterday in that I thought you posted closer to the hammer than you did. I was wrong, so the point about no selling the hammer is bunk. I throw it out.

This has no effect on that fact your vote on Kise the start of the day was terrible outside this. I agree with Triple D in that lazy is the best way to explain it. It smells like auto town move, pressuring that player who hammered terribly without actually thinking it though. If you read Dexter season one you'll see that Dexter (the vig) had delayed kills in that game. Something similar could have easily been in place for this game so only one kill on night one means nothing.

Now after I push on you for your terrible Kise vote I'm scum? You never mentioned me much at all yesterday, only responding to my questions. Yet I jump over Kise and tans for your vote?

Frankly it stinks.

Also what is this wifom over Locke's death you are chatting about? I don't get it.

If you had been reading my posts you would know that I was starting to suspect LMP with you. However I like his uptake in posting right now. My other picks are Socio and KKN, but I still need to do some reading before settling.

[Sotty7]

Are you really asking me why I suspect you and Socio KKN?

[Sotty7]

I have a weakish town read on Amrun at the moment. I've had it since the end of day one. I'd give her a 3/10 with 1 being confirmed town and 10 being confirmed scum.

My scale for LMP is sliding down right now, I'd say about a 6. I can believe that LMP v Amrun is town v town. Not completely sold on that though, keeping an eye on it.

Are you really asking me why I suspect you and Socio KKN?

To elaborate further on this I just got done saying I needed to re-read to solidify my reads in post 507 and yet you ask me to justify my reads? Also my ISO has reasons for why I suspect both slots, this question feels so damn fake to me. It looks like you are asking it to look busy.

For clarity, I am working though day one again and I still really hate your opening play on LMP and the whole RVS dance you did. You are still a strong suspect for that. I'll have more detail once I finish my read.

[Sotty7]

So either I'm garnering brownie points with my push on kise or my push on Kise is terrible, which is it. And no the answer is not both

Sorry to disappoint, but the answer is both. As I have said... many times now.

I notice you continue to ignore my questions.

This is getting silly now, I am pretty sure I have answered all of your questions in some way when I responded to you or at least I tried. Point out what I am missing so I can address it rather than hiding behind attacks like this.

[Sotty7]

I had some changes going on in RL that is making it difficult for me to get time to really read through and review as needed. If anyone knows a player who wants to hydra with me, please let me know as I don't want to flake and enjoy playing this game.

@Sotty: These questions I asked:

I also have added my thoughts to why I find Tans scum in my "tunneling" Which you never responded to my point on Tans about his blantant lie and exteration of saying I'm scum only when I tunnel. Why are you protecting him?

Oh when you said questions I thought you meant I missed something important and repeatedly.

I'm not protecting tans I just disagreed with you and have since day one. I have said why in thread and it boils down to tans being an easy target for a lynch. I'm not using the fact that you tunnel as scum in my case against you so I'm not sure why you are trying to connect me with tans so desperately here. What about VP and Triple D? Are they also protecting tans?

Good to know you are damning me no matter what I did today. You decided to target me today, obviously I scare you. Would you say that out of everyone here LL knows you better and your play better then anyone else?

If you knew anything about my play you would know I don't target players like that. This is a perfect example of you trying to use your rep and fear to push me off you. It won't work.

For the last time, I think you believed pushing on Kise would net you brownie points. I don't believe you expected the backlash to your terrible vote on him. This is why you have backed away very quickly and voted for me once I pushed you on it. Now instead of actually trying to figure out my alignment in anyway you are just declaring that I am ignoring questions, which really I haven't done. You are falling back on a lot of rhetoric instead of actually scum hunting and that's just making me think I have caught you out and your now failing. I can't really believe that you are that upset I missed your extremely loaded question on my so called protection of tans for example. It's all so fake and filled with posturing.

Are you going to explain your jab on me about the Locke WIFOM you dangled in post 490?

[Sotty7]

To ne fair sotty, I'm limited to my phone until later tonight. I haven't been able to read you in ISO for a while. Last I remember, you commented on me day 1 for voting lmp. Because you thought the timing of the vote was weird (similar to what I'd done) do you still believe I am scum for that vote?

Yup. Also your post 128 where you list the number of votes made so far was really bad. I just feel like you are treading water here trying to look busy.

Hind

, list of reads ASAP please. I keep forgetting you are even in this game.

Amrun

, LMP totally ignored your vote what does that tell you? Also are you going to explain why you switched?

[Sotty7]

KKN: Those two posts still very much bug me, combined with you asking why I suspect you, I would have thought you would have remembered why. Hence asking pointless questions. I'm also not really seeing you push LMP all that much. This could be to you V/LA I suppose, but I am not getting a town feel off you at all. These little things add up.

Who else is scum outside LMP? What's your view on Farside?

[Sotty7]

I'm not protecting tans I just disagreed with you and have since day one. I have said why in thread and it boils down to tans being an easy target for a lynch. I'm not using the fact that you tunnel as scum in my case against you so I'm not sure why you are trying to connect me with tans so desperately here. What about VP and Triple D? Are they also protecting tans?

Why do you disagree? Sorry but if you haven't been able to tell finding time to go back and read is just not something I have a luxury of lately.
I already have Triple D as scum, did you miss that post?
Sorry it's 6am and I'm feeling bitchy and tired right now.

Why do you think Tans is the easy lynch? Wouldn't you say the same of what happened with Budja?

The case on tans arose out of him being jumpy and over defensive in the early goings. For him, these things seem to be more of a null tell and I said a couple of times that I wanted to see how he plays this game as it draws on. So far I haven't really seen anything from him that makes me want to lynch him. This is probably helped by your focusing in on him, I'm just not seeing whatever it is you see.

Oh yes, I forgot about your Triple D exchange. So what about VP?

I have played with Budja a few times so I know what you are getting at. I found him slightly scummy for not actually answering direct questions, but then the survivor claim happened and Budja wanted to lynch Kise. People found him scummy for that, but I didn't defended him. So I'm not sure what you're driving at here. I wasn't on Budja's lynch. You're scrambling to make me look bad.

All I see in your "case" is I started the day trying to earn brownie points. That is in essence WIFOM. That is like me saying I believe you killed LL out of fear.

...

Are

you saying that?

And I do believe I was answering the question Sotty asked, but if she meant something else, she only has to clarify and I will respond.

I'm happy enough with your answer.

[Sotty7]

So his meta as being jumpy and defensive is null and you see how he plays the game. I point out tunnelling is null for me, but I'm scum? Is that really how you act is in a okay for X but not okay for Y?

I don't care if you tunnel in every game you ever play in, what I do care about is how you go about it. When I first questioned you about it on day one I pretty much let you be didn't I? It wasn't until you opened up day two with your vote on Kise did I believe your tunnelling on tans was a scum excuse for activity. As VP said, it isn't a

theory

these things happened and nothing you have said has made me think I'm not on the right track. In fact, instead of trying to convince me I'm wrong you have just tried to flip the script and make me scum for my attack, when previously you seemed to think I was town, or at least null enough to leave alone.

Making a case on me based on bias meta that says I only do something as scum, when it is null is town in what way, shape or form? What is town about Tans in your view?

Okay, my case on you isn't based

totally

on your tunnelling. You're taking one aspect of what I am saying and trying to twist it and break it down. I'm looking at your whole game here, the tunnel combined with your awful Kise move and now with your really bad OMGUS'ing all adds up. You and tans aren't comparable to me, stop forcing me into a false dilemma in making it so.

I pointed out that Budja didn't ring as scummy. I saw why people thought it but I disagreed. You are accusing me of pushing a case on what you call "an easy target" Why would I (1) tunnel someone I find scum instead of jumping on budja (2) not push on Amrun.....who by the way typically has foot in mouth syndrom (at least in the game I was in with her).

lol, and

I'm

playing the WIFOM card?

All I see in your "case" is I started the day trying to earn brownie points. That is in essence WIFOM. That is like me saying I believe you killed LL out of fear.

...

Are

you saying that?

I thought about it. LL wasn't exactly ring town bells for me as I pointed out day 1.

Is this what you were hinting about when you mentioned Locke WIFOM? I don't know why you won't give me a clear answer with your thought process here. If it is, I'd like you to explain why I, out of everyone else in this game, would kill Locke out of fear?

[Sotty7]

That vote count is ridiculous.

Hind, no one seems to be paying attention to your Socio case, you should switch your vote to Farside if she is one of your suspects. Right now you're doing very little in the way of looking proactive. Cut by multiple people saying roughly the same thing.

No you voted me day one, at the end of the day for what I assume reading your reasoning was not saying anything about the survivor/Budja interaction and focusing on Tans. (correct?)
If so why did you not call out Tans for pretty much doing the same thing?

I voted you near the end of day one to get you more involved in the actual game instead of tunnelling. It didn't work.

And tans didn't do the same thing, maybe you should go back and check his ISO. Plus I felt tans was addressing things and people as they came up, you were not.

Nice dodge on the question. You accused me of going after an easy target. I'm asking you why did I pick one person after another if that is your theory.

Your question is silly in my opinion. Maybe you didn't shift because you had settled on your target and there was plenty of budja hate to go around without needing your vote. As for Amrun, I don't know why you didn't move there but I don't really remember her wagon ever gaining that much traction. Plus, she certainly isn't an easy target.

I believe I stated that out of everyone here Locke knew you best. He mentions you as one of his top 12 people in his GTK and I think he could read your play well.

Okay, I can give you this. I didn't see you mention that before. However VP is probably the one player that knows me the best in this game, not Locke.

@Sotty: Why do you think SP and KKn are scummy?

Briefly, KKN because of his poor entrance into that game. I still very much hate his reasoning for his LMP vote and the overall tone of his posts don't make me feel any better about him.

As for Socio it was more him coasting and doing a lot of nothing. My experience tells me he can be extremely useful as town and I don't see any effort from him here at all. His exchange with hind is going nowhere and he has settled in with a OMGUS vote that I don't like.

If I can't get your lynch, I'd rather watch KKN swing over Socio. Not by much mind you.

Why is farside taking shit for tunneling on tans but Hindu isn't taking shit for tunneling on socio? Neither are truly tunneling, for the record, but both are fitting the loose definition being applied to farside.

Hindiragi is more likely scum than farside imho.

Amrun: Curiosity makes me ask. Do you have a finished game on MS where you were scum. I have a theory on you as a player and was curious to see if my feel on you is accurate.

I'm still somewhat bitter over Xfiles mafia even if I did eventually replace out.

[Sotty7]

Sotty: I did a bit of digging on your scum play a bit and town read. Can I ask a question, where are your big post with many points against me with quotes and such? Why are you calling me lazy when the equivilant of DDD's vote was following with no reason and you don't call him lazy?
When you done with that list you points on why I'm scum.

If you are saying that I make "big posts" as town and don't as scum I'm calling bullshit. My more recent play (of both alignments) has me trying to be more to the point with my case making. I try not to quote strip as much any more because I find it makes it harder for others to follow the argument.

I prefer to engage my suspects in a back and forth dialog. If no one is willing to join then later I will build a big case to draw more support.

So now you've given up on tans and it's time to jump over to locking me in with Triple D? Well to answer your question, I know Triple D almost as well as I know VP and Locke. This is how he always plays. Short infrequent posts that do little to help in reading him. From what I know, he has deliberately altered his town posting rate to fit in with his scum rate and has done this since a mountainous game he was in with VP a couple of years ago. In that game, Alexhas did a activity check that all but outted Triple D as scum (I will look for a link shortly) I haven't asked him directly, but I think this was when he started to adjust his town posting rate down rather than his scum rate up.

Because of this, I find little use in pressuring him in the early game. I wait and watch to see what he does and when he does it because I believe all his posts are very deliberate. I have a town read on him right now because he dismissed the two early wagons and spear headed the budja wagon. Yes budja flipped town, but unless both tans and KKN are scum with Triple D, why not just join one of those early wagons? Plus I like his vote on you as well, that should go without saying.

As for the Amrun question I pretty much agree with her assessment of it. She played the newb card pretty well despite being caught very early. I found her scummy but she did manage to talk me and others out of it. She was clueless at the start and yet still played very well with it, grew into the scum role as the game went one for sure. It's the reason I seconded her nom for best new player.

Compared to this game there are a lot of similarities in tone, in genuineness but I get the feeling these are the kind of things that are common to her constant game rather than alignment. But I should probably look at a town game for comparison.

I'm pretty sure I have said why you are scum quite a few times now, but if you're looking for a big case with quotes to refute it will have to wait till morning. I'm about ready for bed.

[Sotty7]

Game I was talking about. GIEFF did the activity check, not Alexhas.

[Sotty7]

I know your not reading at this point if you have reached this conclusion based on my questions. I find the 3 of you scummy and said as much prior.

So Sotty in your view DDD typically only calls out one player as scum and sits on them all of day 1 and that is normal?

This is another reason I am find you very scummy in this game. You take statements I make and twist them into things I never actually said to ask me pointless, loaded and near on rhetorical questions. This is not the mindset of a townie trying to gauge alignment. The longer it goes on the more convinced of that I am becoming.

Clearly I am reading because I am easy disputing every point you are scrambling to bring up against me. I never said that anything about Triple D's play being "normal" in this game. I currently have a town read on him for the reasons I listed and I don't care if you agree or not. Also, didn't you call one player out as scum and sit on them all day as well? Scummy for Triple D but null for you?

As for Triple D not agreeing with my scum read on KKN... So? Town players don't always agree on everything. Nice attempt to chip away at my read though.

I forgot today was Fathers so this is a swing by post. I'll address KKN's post later today or more likely tomorrow.

[Sotty7]

It's called making scum connections. I'm trying to gauge if you are the manipulative scum from Ladies night I looked at or town who is an calls out people based on weak reasoning, while ignoring people who have done the same in the game. If you say you were not manipulative in that game I call BS too.

I was terrible in Ladies night, probably the weakest scum game of mine in recent memory, there are better games in my wiki. Sure I was manipulative there, I'd say if you aren't being manipulative in a game as scum you're doing it wrong. I'm not sure I like you talking crap about my town game, feels like you are trying to discredit me in this game.

What did you dispute: Your "town reads" I asked you your read on DDD say he acts X as scum or town but you call him town in this game, now I want to know why. Your reason's for ignoring one player in favor of another? Because you believe them town? This is not twisting things. This is asking you a point blank question. Just because you don't have an answer makes you look scummy to me. Lets play a straight to the point game. Shall we.

...Are you really saying I didn't answer your question about Triple D? I gave you my meta read and my reasoning for my town read on him in this game. You're reaching.

The rule is simple. Answer a simple yes or no with a brief explanation behind it.

I'm sensing a trap here as no situation in Mafia is cut and dry. It always depends on the player and the situation around the incident.

I'm also waiting to hear why you have a town read on DDD.

I'm starting to think you're just screwing with me now.

Even more so since you take a post TALKING ABOUT MY TOWN READ OF TRIPLE D. What the hell?

[Sotty7]

Guys, we're clearly at an impasse here. This day has been going on forever and there has not been very good direction. Ido think Hind is a good choice. I think farside is scummy, but that's partly because I'm starting to think DDD and Sotty are town more than I'm seeing as much word-twisting in farside's play as Sotty is seeing. I have a hard time reading farside most games because she gets very emotionally involved regardless of alignment, so that's kind of bleh.

Hind and LMP would probably make better lynches today, imo.

I feel like Farside is pulling me into a big muddy fight in an attempt to make it hard for people to pick a side because both are so passionate. I'm seeing something along the lines of what you did to Zach and myself in Pie E7 mark II. I'm trying hard not to lose my temper because I think her line of questioning is attempting to do that to discredit me rather than hunt scum.

I do get what you are saying though, the day is dragging and I'm sensing I'm just not getting the support I need to lynch farside. I'm not ready to give up just yet, when I get a moment I will be building a case against her with the hope to change some minds. For now though, why are you willing to lynch Hindi over Socio? I'm starting to see them both as equally useless as the other.

I still need to look at KKN's ISO as well.

[Sotty7]

LMP, I said it before. I am not being cutesy. Over half of the game has not called you scum, and all of your TOP scumreads are the people most vocally advocating your lynch. When this is a trend, it raises red flags for me.

So... Lets talk about farside. She giving you some red flags? Her vote on VP is almost as bad as her vote on me and that's saying something. Her scum reads are all players that suspect her.

LMP and VP were two of my reads I was on the fence about. This wagon makes me believe more in VP town and LMP scum. That wagon hop was terrible.

[Sotty7]

Sotty, what about my reasonings for my LMP vote strike you as scummy?

Is this another case of "lolphone post" or is this a serious question? Because I have answered this, today and yesterday when it happened.

I was surprised when I clicked into your ISO to see that you have so many posts. I simply don't remember you doing much of anything outside your terrible entrance into the game and asking a lot of pointless questions. You have dumped your vote on LMP since the start of the game after a brief RVS vote on Socio. That's two days of sitting on your hands not doing much, because I don't see you beating the lynch drum for LMP at all. Who else are you willing to lynch today? Why?

There is a lot of fluff here. Excuses for not posting, V/LA's and phone posts. I'm just not sensing any urgency from you at all. That's my biggest problem with you, I don't believe you believe LMP is scum. That's a big problem.

[Sotty7]

KKN: Lay out your LMP/Blackberry case for me, bullet points with a little explanation would be fine.

If you missed his following then please explain why every time I ask him a question you haven't answered he has no answer?

Example

the meta
the question about what he saw I was twisting from you

None was answered and he avoids answering.

VP has explained himself pretty well I thought. You have spun nearly everything I have said since voting you today, and tried to make it look scummy. If you're looking for quotes it's going to be one huge post.

Why do you say I have null meta read on Triple D? I have explained my town read on him and I don't care that you don't find it valid. The name calling isn't appreciated.

Unvote

After my re-read I am not sure if farside is scum anymore, her play today imo is townie.

@DDD, Hinduragui and Sotty - What are your feelings on KKN?

What about her play is townie to you? I'm having a real hard time swallowing this.

As for KKN, he's my second pick for scum behind farside.

[Sotty7]

My current thoughts on KKN

[Sotty7]

KKN: Lay out your LMP/Blackberry case for me, bullet points with a little explanation would be fine.

In other news, this game is starting to seriously bum me out.

[Sotty7]

Sotty: When you state that someone is pushing a case on someone that hammered is a player trying to make "town brownie points" how do you not consider damning a player?

This makes no sense.

I mean either I'm town trying to question a player I find scummy (which is what I'm doing and you've ignored) or I'm scum trying to ask questions trying to look good. Why latch onto one theory and not read my reasoning for questioning Kise?

I have explained this plenty of times.

You are scum questioning Kise for his bad hammer under the belief the town would back you. Only it backfired in your face. How hard is this to understand?

Are you going to continue to ignore my questions?

Getting to the point to where I wish I could ignore you. I'm done trying to convince you that you're scum though.

I'd like to lynch Farside, KKN and Socio in that order. I would compromise on Hind lynch over a Berry lynch at this point.

KKN's LMP case is okay really, but the fact that he has sat back nearly all game not pushing his supposed top scum suspect just really claws in my gut.

I have to apologize for my weekend activity. It's really hit or miss if I get computer access sometimes.

[Sotty7]

I have pushed it Sotty. Any time I've brought it up, it is promptly put onto the backburner. If I make a point against LMP, it is largely ignored. I have not sat back all game. Every time LMP was screwy, I've commented on it. I've been trying to bring it up, it's been lost in the other discussions. I have discussed other people.

What other thoughts do you have on the case besides "okay"?

You haven't pushed it nearly enough. If your case is being ignored why aren't you asking other players their opinions on it directly? Why aren't you pushing your points to the forefront of discussion? To me, it looks like you're happy to sit back and make cases that aren't going to go anywhere. That's scummy.

The good parts of your LMP case is the sheeping and pretty much his entire day one play. Being over defensive isn't a scum tell however and I'm still very much stuck on your reasoning for first voting him.

Amished scumtell.

Idk if it is on the wiki.

BUT!!

VPB and DDD are the ones who taught me this by mislynching me with it in a kind of sort of similar situation. But this is like really egregious. I never did it like that

Errr... No. You were mislynched with this tell and now you are using it in this game? I don't think so.

I'd rather BB not claim at this point because if we're not lynching farside I want to string up KKN. Of course this can change if he gets some more votes. Tans you need to pick a place for your vote ASAP. Not voting right now is not acceptable.

[Sotty7]

What is your case on LMP/BB?

[Sotty7]

No, I think it is pretty good representation really. The whole "can do better thing" is something I feel with LMP in this game, but I also think it is somewhat of an unfair tell to apply. We all have our off days, plus he did eventually replace out.

I think I a lot of my unwillingness to wagon him up comes from how awful KKN has been and he has been on LMP/BB since the very start of the game. When BB posted it did seem like he was willing to put some effort into the game as well. I want to see what else he thinks.

[Sotty7]

Okay I would really, really,

really

lynch either farside or KKN in a heartbeat at this point. 822 is terrible.

[Sotty7]

If that is the case why didn't you unvote right away?

If you believed he was scum as strong as you said you did, softclaiming wouldn't mean anything to you. The fact you unvoted so easily without placing your vote anywhere else is just awful and makes me think I was 100% right when I said you were sitting on your LMP vote with the hopes it wouldn't go anywhere.

If LMP/BB is town, who is scum?

[Sotty7]

Mod: Replace me

[Sotty7]

After how long I had looked forward to this game I was pretty upset about having to replace out. I'm glad it didn't effect my team that much, although I haven't been reading along to really judge that. Strange thing is I probably would have had to replace out of this game later anyway. Been struggling with some health issues, so I guess it just wasn't meant to be.

Farside has apologized and even if I don't agree with her reasons, it's over. Sorry to Juls for leaving her in the lurch like that. Congrats to the scum!