Mini 1176: Dexter Season 2 (Game Over) Who Won?

[Blackberry]

Reading now, will post shortly.

[Blackberry]

I just finished Page 4. Either I'm really slow or you guys write a lot. X_x

[Blackberry]

I am having my bf over and will be busy the rest of the day. Will finish reading and post tomorrow morning though after he leaves for work!

xoxo

BB

PS: I am not scum, do not lynch me without letting me claim X_X.

Also, I scanned over the past Dexter game first post and noticed all the mafia/SK were bad guys from the TV show. But if no one has done so yet, we might want to see if they had fake name claims or something. As I also did notice notable characters were missing from the game that may or may not have been given as safe claims to the scum.

[Blackberry]

A: I just finished Page 9, and after reading LMP a bit, I will admit I am not happy that I have to replace into thos. However, I already could have guessed LMP wasn't that bright when I learned my role and what LMP did with my role. No offense LMP :-*.

B: Jusy FYI, I am happy to claim at any time if yall think it's necessary.

C: I have a couple town reads and scum reads, although my scum reads keep altering a bit. I'll read through as much as I can and will post whatever I have regardless of how far I am.

...

While I am still reading, I'll go ahead and post a few questions I have. These aren't my leading scum reads, just questions I had that didn't make sense to me.

TANS

- Post 49 - tans asking a lot of questions… I am curious what Tans is looking for by asking these questions… the fact that

Tans isn't staying on his Budja

vote suggests either A: Tans is scumthunting and only looking for reactions or B: Did Tans really think Budja was a good lynch? If so, why did he switch off him so quickly unless he was afraid it would cause him (tans) to look bad? I want to know why Tans switched off of Budja when Budja did nothing to respond to Tans and Budja hadn't posted at all.

*

I also want to know why the hell nobody else pointed out that Tans seemed adequate about voting Budja, then switches off for no reason and doesn't respond to the Budja thing anymore for awhile. I think this strikes me as more concerning.

DDD

- Post 148 - I want to know what you meant by "wait for him to do something scummy"?

[Blackberry]

I'm not asking why you voted KKN, I'm asking why you didn't keep your vote on Budja / why you didn't continue to pressure Budja / Budja still wasn't doing anything and you seemed to be content with that.

[Blackberry]

Pfft, you think thats scummy?

Keep reading, I switched my vote to Amrun a little after that. I think I switched my vote 3 times that day (real life days) not gameday

Particularly, I was leaning town on you but that one fact stuck out to me as not making sense. I still do not feel content with an answer (What were your thoughts of Budja when he hadn't posted anything/why did you not feel the need to continue to apply pressure when he hadn't responded?). And as I said before, I find it odd that none of the more active players pointed it out at that point in the game.

PS: Amrun, I probably won't be wanting to lynch Farside, nor myself. Since you're on, can you start looking at someone else? ^_^ I'm on Page 13 btw. I was leaning scum for you at one point but then you said something that screamed town to me, so if you are town, I encourage you to at least look at other players for a possible lynch today. And as I said, I am fine with claiming, why would you want me lynched and not to claim first? Weren't you just asking for claims? Now you don't care about the claims and just want to lynch?

[Blackberry]

I don't know what Amished scumtell means or what it is referring to X_x.

Do yall think it will be helpful if I post what I have now and then keep reading? At the very least, you'll know where my head is. Although I admit I changed my mind on a few people and could possibly change my mind again after reading more.

[Blackberry]

I was mostly frustrated with LMP for role-related reasons. And their interaction on Page 9 was not helpful. I do, however, think stating "I 100% disagree" is a very town thing to say (I wrote it in my original notes, but then realized it was me).

I'll go ahead and post my notes. This is up to the end of Page 13.

Sociopath

126 - Putting Tans at L-1 by looking at one post? This seems like something scum would do, they want to put someone at L-1, so they quote just one post.
152 - Why aren't you posting any content? VP is accusing you, as a townie, I would post my thoughts and explanation so people think I am town, why did you post NOTHING?
254 - For some reason this strikes me as town, also his whole "he has a method" also strikes me as town… I don't know X_X
261 - Leaning Town now… no idea how that happened O_O

Current Read: Leaning Town

Sotty7

Post 45 - Sotty asking for a vote seems odd
64 - Another post I need to look back on - I have a feeling I can get a strong read from this post

Current Read: Null

VP Baltar

VP voting KKN without words seems odd considering it is no longer a random vote
91 – Anyone telling anyone they’re hyperaware of their own meta makes it null strikes me as scummy. FoS VP
144 - Something about this reads town to me.
145 - Catching onto Sociopath, you get town points
145 - Makes really good points, strong town read (or at least very smart and helpful) … I agree KKN posting a Vote Analysis on Page 6 seems a little eager to me
205 - I agree with my replacees 208, this seems odd, especially when you voted Socio for another reason, now he is saying he is voting Socio because of what Hinduragi will say
271 - Why is VP calling Kise a Survivor? I think it's clear Kise stated he is more like a third-party who can then choose whether he wants to align with town or mafia (I think).
275 - This strikes me as really odd and completely different than the 144 and 145 post
323 - I actually like this post because the Survivor thing bothers me too… although in retrospect, it could also just be mafia directing the vig shot

Current Read: Going back and forth on you... thinking of leaning scum but need to read more into him

Debonair Danny DiPietro

98- If neither impresses you why go after either? Why make a post? Why not go after someone else and state your reasons? Not townie at all. FoS DDD
148 - I want to know what you meant by "wait for him to do something scummy"?

Current Read: Very Null... and considering I'm getting a lot of town vibes/reads from others, this may turn into a scum read for lack of a town read X_X

fargrass/farside22

(58) Farside saw something similar to what I saw, so I give her townie points for this
(190) Posting again strikes me as town
(280) Rereading this post, I can get a strong read on farside
(308) I tend to point out null tells on myself as Town

Current Read: Null, but, leaning Townish

Kid Know Nothing

(57) I agree with KKN’s statement and thus lean either town or at the very least he is helpful. Also, because he has a similar stance as me, it should be easy to read if he is being inconsistent… the slight FoS tans strikes me as odd, seems something mafia would do to eachother
(68) What does it matter if we were in the RVS when #### posted? This questions seems pointless and something mafia would ask. Strong FOS.
(70) Nothing from this post reads town per se.
(87) This seems unfair does not strike me as town… although something about the post reads townish to me… and in retrospect would a mafia really say 'This seems unfair"
Making a google doc automatically strikes me as town… I suppose it would be useful to meta him and see if he's done this as scum before X_x.
(128) Certain parts of this post read town to me
"Explain what you mean by bad timing" … "I still don't get your alt question, it seems like filler" … do these questions strike anyone else as non-helpful and pointless? KKN's questions seem like filler to me X_x (164)

Current Read: Leaning Scum I think... mostly because I can't get a good strong town read from you and because the early Vote Analysis thing... hopefully reading more will give me a stronger read

Amrun

Post 50 & 51 are telling - need to reread these as it will give me a good read on Amrun
I disagree that someone can "abuse their own meta"… this seems like something scum would say (Post 56)
97 – Amrun gives bad gut feeling overall X_x
103 - Either Amrun is scum or her basic sentence structure strikes me as scummy. She did something and then asks how it is a scumtell. "Each conclusions have been wildly unfounded and it's a trend I don't like." The words wildly unfounded sound like mafia trying to discredit someone else's argument.
114 - Repeating something someone else already said as if it was your own statement. The way you ask the question strikes me as you not actually being interested.
159 - Finally comments on SocioPath… but barely says anything, could have said a lot more X_x.
178 - Why not anything from Hinduragi? What did he post that you thought was insightful? And what are and were your thoughts on sociopath?
216 - "Budja is absolutely not scum with tans" … a part of me feels scum wouldn't say this…
318 - Relook at this post to look for sincerety… or is Amrun setting up that farside is town because Budja flips town? Not likely but still good to relook at later

Current Read: I don't know... relook at mentioned post and reading more will give me better info...

Kise

Post 36 - what Kise says is very similar to what I'm thinking, so leaning back to townish because Kise sees what I see
Post 185 - Agree with the Hindu & Socio as I also have little on them at this point, so leaning town (although disagree with the LMP )
Kise is striking me as lazy, scum reads on socio and me and town reads on amrun and VP… I feel Kisa isn't actually playing the game X_x.
Why would Astor be in this settup? I've only seen seasons 1 and 2, I know Astor becomes more central later, but Astor isn't a huge main character in season 2… Also, my Role flavor etc. follows very closely Season 2… so I don't know why Astor would be in this setup X_x

Current Read: Why isn't he dead? Likely won't help us at all...

Hinduragi

193 - Yay finally I have something to write about you. I like your vote on Socio.
310 - I was originally leaning mafia on hind cuz he wasn't doing much, but when he has posted content I get town vibes

Current Read: Null, leaning Town

tanstalas

Early comments addressed towards Budja's vote about voting Sociopath make me think tans is Mafia trying to throw suspsicion in early game
Posts 28 & 29 give me the impression of scum buddies, notice how Kise & Budja do the same thing (according to Tans) yet Tans seems more concerned with Budja
Tans vote in #35 seems premediated and scum-worthy
Post 49 - tans asking a lot of questions… I am curious what Tans is looking for by asking these questions… the fact that Tans isn't staying on is Budja vote suggests either A: Tans is scumthunting and only looking for reactions or B: Did Tans really think Budja was a good lynch? If so, why did he switch off him so quickly unless he was afraid it would cause him (tans) to look bad? I want to know why Tans switched off of Budja when Budja did nothing to respond to Tans and Budja hadn't posted at all
Tans admitting to being nervous but not defensive is a strong town tell to me, similar to LMP saying he is "I disagree 100%"
Post 111 - something seems off about this post X_X

Current Read: Null, leaning Town, or SK... I get the sense you are actually scum-hunting, but that you're also hiding something

I think I'll have more definitive views/thoughts after I finish reading, or at least read more. I am still slightly confused. I also want to go relook at the posts I've mentioned I need to relook at. There is something in those posts that will tell me if that person is town or mafia X_X.

[Blackberry]

Juls - considering it probably takes a total of 6-8 hours to read through everything, is it possible to get an extension for us replacements? :-*

[Blackberry]

I'm contemplating just claiming so that we can get our votes onto a better lynch and save us time. If 2/3 people agree I will claim.

[Blackberry]

I'm skipping to Page 30 for the moment being...

Page 30:

Farside vs. KKN

KKN - I'm interested in why KKN is focusing on LMP so much and not other players, such as Kise.
Farside - Overall town read, she did say something I typically associate with scum, but she has said a lot of things that I associate with town and thus am pretty positive she is town.

Page 31:

761 - Amrun's "I wouldn't mind lynching KKN as an informative flip"... I only want to lynch scum, I don't want to lynch someone for an information flip... this struck me as odd, but it is possible you just have a different playstyle than me and think you can lynch a townie... my thinking is it's possible for there to be 4 anti-town and that I'd only want to lynch my top reads... also the "I thought about it" comment sounds off

763 - @KKN, What kind of responses do you expect a replacement to have on another person's playstyle? O_o

764 - Socio - How did I set off alarms when I hadn't even read the game yet? This doesn't make sense to me. I do however, know, that when I do post my blantent honesty and free-flow of thought causes some people to think I am scum because they see me as writing a lot and get mad I don't write down concisely what I'm thinking. Although I prefer to write out the majority of my thoughts because at the very least I think my genuineness will show through. But I hadn't really done either of those yet so I am curious what "alarms" I gave off when I'd barely posted/hadn't even read yet.

766 - Amrun - you think it's possible for me to even shoot off alarms with however many posts I had and nothing about the game? I'm a bit surprised you didn't question it.

767 - VP - saying "People on wagons going nowhere are uselss if they are town"... the phrase "if they/you are town" is mostly used by scum to scare town into doing whatever it is you are asking them to do... town shouldn't make such statements as it is a statement that induces fear that "if you don't do this you are scum"... yet you're *trying* to say it in a townie-way... I don't like this at all X_x

768 - Example of above: Tans is induced by fear that VP has suggested

Page 32:

KKN - The fact he made a votecount to seem townie, but then stops following through with it... makes me unsure, will come back to this... who is more likely to stop it? Scum or town? I actually think scum would NOT give up on it because then they wouldn't seem helpful and they'd be afraid it'd be a scumtell so out of fear they'd keep doing it anyways...

tans - I'm curious why you think I'm town after my first in-depth post... in past games whenever I speak as town and write a lot people seem to think I'm scum because I'm not concise (as mentioned earlier). So it strikes me a little odd that you think I'm town so quickly. Although you do claim to have a town read on LMP so I guess that makes slight since. I'm a little worried of being buddied though XD.

Amished scumtell - I think it's a really silly conversation and something scum are more likely to discuss, the whole concept seems null and it's likely scum will have input to try to make it look scummy. *looks at discussers* Yup, VP is in there.

797 - The way DDD explains why he said that makes me think town. I don't think scum would explain it how he did.

PAGE 33:

Amrun - the fact that Amrun hasn't said anything about my post (to further indicate I'm scum, or consider I'm town) makes me question if Amrun is infact a genuine townie genuinely looking at my play. You'd think she would make some sort of comment on it.

VPB - I don't know if LMP made a "derp" move. In is something I would not have done though.

816 - The way Amrun phrases my dislike for replacing LMP suggests Amrun is not town to me.

KKN - You ask if I think I'll be a potential target for tonight. Are you scum wondering if my role is a good target?

Kise - asking about the Cody thing, etc., etc., even if someone else did claim Cody, I really don't think either would be in this settup.

826 - Kise asks why I think he is being lazy. I was referring to post 185 where he barely posts anything and his only scumreads are the people that are easiest to point to and say "I think you're scum" and not posting very much. Do you disagree with being lazy at that point in the game?

Modkilling - I think this modkilling stuff in nonsense. If someone wanted someone modkilled and were scum, they'd discuss it in PM. So nonsense, like the Amished thing, Oh look, it's coming from Amrun again. Also, weird comment from Fargrass. And (thinking I knew) farside saying those comments to Sotty, I'm a bit surprised. As Grass said, I would assume she is under stress or something.

870 - I completely disagree. Farside saying that makes her more town IMO.

876 - Scum making low attacks.

882 - "Wtf is this?" I don't think that's how a townie would react. Fake reaction from scum IMO.

SCUM:

VP
Amrun
Kise

*Most-sure on VP
*Least-sure on Kise, but asking why he was lazy makes me think he is scum.

I'm going to go look @ Hindu real quick. Not happy that Amrun is the one that got it going that way. Also I don't like how Amrun thinks I'm scum, and switches to Hindu, and doesn't post any commentary whatsoever about my first summary post.

[Blackberry]

Also two things I forgot...

@ Sotty - please don't replace out.

@ Kise - I also want a full claim.

Scum team, be scared, I reread a bit of Kise (his referring to game meta, his response to Faraday when he hammared), and I think I just called out your entire team.

[Blackberry]

PS: I also reread a bit of Hindu as well. Although I'll wait to see his reaction, his general posts (quoting old games) read town to me. I want one of my three lynched. I'd actually rather No Lynch than kill anyone else at this point.

[Blackberry]

Cuz I was going to claim anyways with being so close to lynch. Was that really a question you had?

[Blackberry]

Flavor reasons, I strongly believed Esme and someone else (who may or may no already be dead) are both in this game - and thus, unless someone CCs Esme, Hindi is confirmed in my eyes.

Unvote, Vote: Socio

... How am I supposed to know how close I am to being lynched when I haven't read everything? Looking at the VC I had several votes and people kept saying "let's lynch BB" and knowing we had a short deadline I believed it would be either me or Farside at lynch at that point.

[Blackberry]

Actually... Hindi can you check everything you just claimed and make sure you didn't make any mistakes? X_x

[Blackberry]

Actually... Hindi can you check everything you just claimed and make sure you didn't make any mistakes? X_x

Ignore this, nevermind.

[Blackberry]

I just checked Dexter Season 1:

* Scum have safe name claims, just FYI.

* Also, there was a double-voter, so be careful about putting someone @ L-1 unless you want to risk killing them without a claim, etc.

[Blackberry]

I think it's *possible* there was some role that mafia has that could have manipulated things (i.e., last game had a manipulator, etc.)... Letting Socio do the kill when he was acting pretty fishy seems not like the smart thing for mafia to do now that I think about it.

And seeing how mafia had safe claims. etc., in the last game, I don't think my flavor-thinking Esmee is in the game confirms anything per se X_x.

I still like my Amrun-Kise-VP scum targets if anyone wants to kill one of them instead.

[Blackberry]

My post - do you think it is a scum posting or a town posting with those thoughts and comments?

[Blackberry]

The fact you are hypothesizing "If I were scum I wouldn't do that" is more-likely you are scum, just FYI.

OR actually. I just thought of: you could be the SK. ^_^ And my scum targets are all still right.

[Blackberry]

Multi-targets, Protection, Roleblocking, Targetting an Unnightkillable SK, there are lots of possibilities. =D

[Blackberry]

Guys.

I have another reason for

wanting socio to go before hindu

in this situation.

Besides that, Hindu's play is consistent with his result.

If Socio turns up town, Amrun just claimed scum. "Go before" suggests Hindu would go next. But Hindu would only go next if Socio were town and Amrun would know/think this as scum.

JUST FOOD FOR THOUGHT.

[Blackberry]

I believe 2-shot tracker. Since I have already soft-claimed a PR, I might as well state my ability is odd-ish too and thus I believe 2-shot tracker.

Come on guys, PR claim vs. no-Power claim. Hypothetically: we lynch one, if we are wrong, we lynch the other. Weighing the chances, would you rather lynch the PR first or the VT first? If we lynch PR first and are wrong we just shot ourself in the foot X_x.

Plus, I don't think Rita is confirmed in this game if it's coming from Kise. In fact, for all we know,

Kise knows Rita is the safe claim or something and is some sort of traitor

. And perhaps that is why he claimed in the first place. ^_^

[Blackberry]

So, lynching Socio not only may confirm Hindi, but if he is infact a mafia with a safe claim of Rita, we also know Kise is anti-town.

[Blackberry]

I just thought of a crazy out-guess-the-mod idea that means Esmee can not be a town player, and thus has to be a safe name claim for scum.

But it's not enough for me to vote Esmee. I'm going to go do secret stuff.

[Blackberry]

BTW, reading the last game, there weren't that many power roles (4 total), so I say we lynch Socio still X_X.

[Blackberry]

He blantantly said he did not go anywhere last night, thus stating he is not a power role, or at the very least, if he were a power role he most likely isn't helpful X_x (not investigative nor protective). Plus you don't know for sure scum would kill Hindi, and at the very least it'd draw a kill away from someone else or Hindi could be saved from a roleblock or w/e.

[Blackberry]

Btw I retract my outguessthemod idea after reading the past game. X_x

[Blackberry]

I'll post more later when I have time but:

A) Amrun dying suggests either Mafia discount me as a serious threat and didn't think I could get Amrun lynched

B) I was right about 2/3 of who are scum, and so mafia killed Amrun to discount my scumreads

C) DDD - If VP wouldn't kill Amrun, do you think I would kill Amrun as scum considering she was one of my top 3 suspects?

D) As already mentioned, why try to lynch a claimed PR over your other suspect?

E) I still want Kise to full claim

F) The fact that I survived the night is probably credited to the fact that a lot of people have expressed interest in killing me and thus why would mafia kill me when they could get my lynched?

[Blackberry]

I will be posting soon. Just a FYI. Don't have enough time to read everything. Been very busy/scattered lately.

Tans is @ L-1? O_o

I would *prefer* we not have a short day, just FYI.

I also still want a full claim from Kise...

Also, I think KKN's question is interesting. It seems like something I would ask as town that others would say "why are you asking that for"... although if anyone looks at the previous Dexter game, someone could just pull a good fake claim from there. My ability name itself is very flavored. My ability itself does contain one bit of flavor, yes, although the majority of it is non-flavor. My flavor/background itself actually implies more flavor into my ability if one thought about it. Although one not might think about it enough unless they had this role and considered pros and cons, etc.

As I already mentioned, Esmee is in fact mentioned in my storyline flavor.

I find it interesting Kise claims to be blocked of some sort. I was actually hoping there would be a town roleblocker/jailer in the game. Although thinking about it, Kise knows there is a Rita in the game, so Rita is either a role Kise knows of, or Rita is a fakeclaim for scum and Kise is a scum-partner. The fact that Kise suggests Socio might not be Rita is interesting. If Kise knew there was a Rita for sure and Socio claimed Rita, and no one counter-claimed Rita, then Kise would know Socio had to be telling the truth. But the fact that Kise suggests maybe Socio isn't Rita is odd considering Kise claims he KNEW Rita was in the game and thus there would have had to been a counter-claim... Or on the other hand, Kise just joined mafia-Rita/Socio.

I haven't actually read all the posts, just the beginnings. I need to reread and evaulate my reads on who I think is scum vs. town.

[Blackberry]

You really think I would hammer you?

Lol. I really should be job-hunting right now, but now I want to read everything now and put in my input since several of you are online at this moment.

[Blackberry]

Why do you think you'll get hammared for? O_o Also, did you claim?

Still reading...

[Blackberry]

Did you name-claim? O_o

I can see DDD... still reading and will post my thoughts.

[Blackberry]

VOTE: DDD

... I'm posting this at the top so the Mod can see

FML. I wrote up a long post and clicked POST and somehow I accidentally turned my internet off with my knee... --_--.

I have my notes in my excel though... reorganizing them again, although I feel really lazy and want to just post my raw notes... Maybe this way I'll be more concise, as I am really "scatter-brained" right now. (Tans - did you think I was scatter-brained at MafiaMeet when I played? Someone us called me this, and considered my talking a lot play and how people always think my play is odd, I was thinking maybe this is a word that fits me although I've never thought of it before).

...

SCUM: DDD
TRAITOR: KISE
TOWN: VP, TANS
BETTER BE TOWN: AGM, FARSIDE
UNSURE: SOCIO, KKN

DDD

- scum scum scum

Look at the way he bussed Hindu yesterday. The way Hindu was lynched, he was defintely bussed by at least one, if not both, of his scum buddies. I would be highly suspect of the people voting Hindu who didn't really have a reason to. The fact me and VP both believed Hindu makes me lean VP as town. The fact DDD just says "I don't believe him" and votes him is highly suspect to me. Scum know the realy scenario and know the truth will come out either way. I think DDD bussed to make himself look more town. Not to mention, he is constantly buddying up to VP and AGM which strikes me as odd. And on a third note, someone said he lurks as town. What has he done today? He only posts to buddy with people, I consider him almost lurking. Strong scum reads IMO. Didn't Amrun say DDD is supposed to be smart? O_o

KISE

- Traitor/Mafia Turned

After thinking about it, Kise has to be a Traitor I think. This would explain why he claimed so early and what he did, to let the mafia know he is a traitor. Perhaps he knows Rita or Dexter are a safe claim for the mafia and thus how he lets it be known to mafia what he is. To second this, Kise suggests maybe Socio was lying about being Rita. If Kise were truly town and knew for sure Rita was in the game, he would know it's IMPOSSIBLE Socio was lying about being Rita, because someone else would have countered. The fact Kise suggests this suggests something is up with Kise's claim. The other possibility is Kise was successful last night and joined the mafia and doesn't want it to be known, thus he suggests he might being roleblocked. Thirdly, I don't believe that Juls did not respond to Kise, considering Juls is very fast and prompt and answering any questions I have.

KISE NEEDS TO FULL CLAIM

SOCIOPATH

- Unsure

Socio I could go either way. I can see Hindu bussing his partner so that whoever is flipped, the other is cleared. Also, Kise has "confirmed" Socio as town... why keep him alive over Amrun? But parts of me are unsure, because I feel Hindu wouldn't have been constantly on his scum partner... I don't know how other people play, that's just not how I would have played. If either Kise/Socio is scum, the other is confirmed scum.

VP

- Town

Although there are a couple of flags that pop up here and there, overall I am getting a town feel. The fact me and you were the only ones voting Socio and that we both believed Hindu make me think we're both town. Scum knew how things would eventually resolve, so I think it's more likely they said "I don't believe Hindu let's lynch him" and bus there parter (i.e. DDD).

Tans

- Non-Mafia/Town

I really think he isn't mafia for sure. He could be a SK, but even if he was, I do NOT want him lynched at this point. Plus, I think my SK theory is slightly biased and off-color. Most likely Town, especially after the way he typed when he thinks he is going to get hammared. Although possibly he is SK and has tried to kill both DDD and Sotty and since his kills didn't go through he thinks one of them is a Godfather Bulletproof or something. Let's go with DDD then, eh? ... Also, reading my raw notes, I strongly doubt Tans as scum could fake the kind of thought process about mafia/someone trying to kill Cody. This seems paranoid and un-mafia.

KKN

- Unsure

You're not really doing anything for my scumdar right now, in a good or bad direction. I'm keeping my eye on you but I'm not 100% sure. I should go back and reread all the Hindu interactions, etc.

Fargrass

I'm only skimming your posts (/kind of ignoring you), I'm not really 100% sure why though. I think I got confident in DDD being scum and Kise being fishy that I was fine with my reads for the time. Also, your interaction with Sotty makes me strongly believe you're not scum.

AGM

I'm also only skimming your posts.

FML, I just got an answer from the mod that is not what I expected X_x.

... I'm probably missing stuff I had in my original posts but if I think of it I'll post later. If I am missing something, it's def. something that is in my raw notes. I am hiding this in a spoiler post since it is so long and I've been yelled at before for posting a lot of my thoughts (and I also know from own experience that long posts I tend to ignore/skim)... but I suggest yall read them.

Spoiler: Raw Notes

Raw Notes

Here are my Raw Notes...

DDD - the way he hammered Hindu was interesting… if you were scum you'd know Hindu was scum and want to hammer your partner to look more town
DDD has done a lot of buddying to VPB - I thought DDD was supposed to be smart according to Amrun?
The fact me and VP were the only people voting Socio after the claim… it's seems more likely at that point scum would have cut their loses and bussed to make themselves look more town… the way VP is adament about believing Hindu, as I did, makes me think he is town...

Tans should have known why VP switched from Socio… wtf?

I think Amrun *could* have been killed to set me up… but the way VP voted me, I don't think mafia would have killed Amrun to set me up and THEN attacked me very first post, I think they would have waited and let someone else do this.

VP 963 "could have been distancing of course" sounds odd to me
VP says "Additionally, what grounds would I have to chain myself to a buddy who was making a claim I knew was fake? Sure noobs might fight for each other like that, but why wouldn't I go through with the bus you are claiming I had been setting up all game? Why try to build cred and then not take it when I had the golden opportunity to do so? I may have sided wrong with the tracker claim, and that was dumb, but the play you are suggesting does not make one iota of sense." ... yet he is voting for me when the same would apply for me...

After thinking about the two scenarios (as Juls had 4 scum last game): same set up with 1 SK, 3 mafia… or 3 mafia one traitor… I think Kise is defintely a Traitor of some sort, possibly knowing Rita or Dexter is the safe claim
If Kise was a traitor, what better to do then claim survivor and mention Rita & Dexter as a way to tell his mafia who he is? Why isn't Kise dead at all? If Kise was town, I think he'd be smart enough to know it'd be impossible for Socio to be faking a Rita claim.

Kise (as possible traitor) suggesting to vote VP also makes me think VP is probably town.
Kise saying the mod hasn't returned anything: I don't believe this O_o.
982 - supports my theory Amrun was killed to set me up as a lynch.

Also, why is Socio lurking? He claims Rita and Kise claims to target him. Does Socio not find any of this suspect?

Hindu on Socio could go either way. If Hindu is scum and he is about to get lynched, why not bus a partner so that no matter who gets lynched, you look cleared?

1001 - once again DDD is buddying with someone

Farside 1011 - QFT … KKN says this as if it were planned

Also, VP if you're so sure I'm scum, why take pressure off of me and switch to tans when I haven't posted? X_x

1032 - DDD follows VP again… would scum really do this? Now I'm not sure. Then again, the BB wagon wasn't going anywhere at the time so maybe DDD thought it was necessary.

Tans - 1050 - Did he not read my posts? Mafia have safe claims from last game… the mafia ARE all bad guys, but each has a safe claim… >_<

1057 - Tans - seems interesting to me… do you think Mafia would FAKE this kind of thought process? I doubt it to be honest…

1067 - Why would you suggest maybe another faction tried to kill DDD or Sotty? Did you try to kill one of them and it didn't go through? O_o

Someone mentioned DDD lurks as scum… look at what he's done thus far, hopped on bandwagons and let the rest happen… IGMEOY SCUM

I think there's a possibility Tans is a SK and has tried to kill both Sotty and DDD and is frustrated cuz neither died and thinks one must be a bullet-proof godfather… but if that is the case, I'd rather hunt Mafia than SK - which would be DDD

[Blackberry]

Oh, I just remembered.

VP says "Additionally, what grounds would I have to chain myself to a buddy who was making a claim I knew was fake? Sure noobs might fight for each other like that, but why wouldn't I go through with the bus you are claiming I had been setting up all game? Why try to build cred and then not take it when I had the golden opportunity to do so? I may have sided wrong with the tracker claim, and that was dumb, but the play you are suggesting does not make one iota of sense." ... yet he is voting for me when the same would apply for me...

Why do you not think the same applies to me? Along the same lines, you should AGREE that DDD is scum.

[Blackberry]

Why is Socio lurking? Grrrrr.

[Blackberry]

Oh, I just remembered.

VP says "Additionally, what grounds would I have to chain myself to a buddy who was making a claim I knew was fake? Sure noobs might fight for each other like that, but why wouldn't I go through with the bus you are claiming I had been setting up all game? Why try to build cred and then not take it when I had the golden opportunity to do so? I may have sided wrong with the tracker claim, and that was dumb, but the play you are suggesting does not make one iota of sense." ... yet he is voting for me when the same would apply for me...

Why do you not think the same applies to me? Along the same lines, you should AGREE that DDD is scum.

VP can you respond to this and any thoughts you have on my post? X_x

[Blackberry]

VP - you are actually persuading me to reconsider my DDD thoughts.

What do you think of my thoughts on Kise/Socio that interaction?

If I were to assume your read on DDD is right and you were to assume my read on Tans were right (/Tans' read on me), hypothetically, who would that leave you with?

Tans has done things to raise flags, but he has also done multiple things I can't see him doing as scum.

If I were to accept DDD as town... I feel strongly Kise is Traitor-Now Scum and Socio very-likely Scum-Fake-claim Rita. Which leaves Farside or KKN as last scum I believe. I don't know why/how, but VP's strong belief that DDD is town makes me think either DDD is pulling one over on VP or DDD is actually town X_x.

...

Do you think Kise, even if a Survivor, would be given two "confirmed" role names of Rita & Dexter? One of those two therefore must be a mafia-claim. Agree or disagree on this?

[Blackberry]

Also, DDD - VP - (AGM) ... how do you plan to convince us they yall are right when yall are acting cliquey and buddying-ish when it'd be in the town's best interest to not do so and instead to help convince us of what yall see. The more yall cling to eachother, the more it looks like one of you is scum trying to hide in the pact.

Agree or disagree with this?

[Blackberry]

Tans... you didn't really answer farside's question... she'll take it as an excuse to vote you if she's scum, so answer it.

[Blackberry]

O_o

*waits to hear more from Kise*

<--- Somewhat at a loss right now... may need to revisit. Maybe I'm just drained and/or feel incompotent at this moment... Socio should talk more IMO.

Unvote

for now. Concerning Amrun, I don't know how A) I was wrong and B) how to catch scum anymore. My usual strategy is to look at who is being insincere in their actions and explanations. Maybe I lost my original idea of how to do that and got caught up in incorrect ideas of what I'm looking for... I need a serious relook at everyone and rethink my gameplan.

PS: No, I am not giving up or throwing in the towel, just posting to say A: I am here and B: I need to reevaluate my plan of attack because I am a bit confused on what is going on... both Kise and Tans have provided odd answers IMO.

I find it very odd "Astor" has multiple extra-abilities. Looking at Dexter Season 1, only two pro-town players had multiple things, as did all the scum... As a PR in this game, I only have one other ability besides my voting. This is actually somewhat related to my outguess the mod idea earlier as to why Esmee couldn't be a real pro-town player in the game... but I'll reveal that when I do eventually claim. Still leaning Traitor... also, considering Kise's claim, I don't think he was roleblocked and/or based on what Kise has said I don't believe it actually states Rita and Dexter are both in the game. I think it's moreso "IF YOU FIND ONE OF THEM" etc., etc.... i.e., a red herring, I believe I've seen it done somewhere before. I.e., Rita could be a fake-claim for scum.

...

[Blackberry]

Socio agreeing Kise needs to die, this is interesting. *strikes chin* ... Why do you (who have claimed Rita) want Kise to die after he said he knew you were in the game, etc., etc., and if you were town would therefore be confirmed in Kise's eyes? What makes you think Kise is scum and/or Traitor?

KKN strikes me as waiting for something, lurking in the shadows, ???.

I agree Lila would be a traitor, and I agree said traitor would definetely have a safe-claim as well, as claiming Lila would (probably) be death.

[Blackberry]

Socio is scum. I had an epiphany about something. Will post when not on iPhone

[Blackberry]

Posting in a second, *eyes Socio*.

[Blackberry]

Tans may be mafia, it's possible.
Farside may be mafia, also possible.

Socio IS mafia.

Or at the very least, one of Socio & Kise is mafia... but I'm strongly leaning Socio due to his lack of sincerity in this past day.

If Socio WAS Rita, he would have an "Other" ability just like Kise does (a mason ability or w/e). The fact he has not brought this up and the fact he is voting Kise suggests he does not. Which automatically suggests one of these two has to be lying. I'm not going to bother asking Socio if he has this ability because I already know the answer is No.

Secondly, I know that Kise was not roleblocked last night. Very similar to me outguessing-the-mod that there is no way Esmee could be a town role, I am outguessing that there is no Roleblocker due to information that I know that I am not going to share until I claim as it is important. This probably seems like a stretch, but I think we can all agree if there was any roleblocker of any sort, they would not be targetting Kise.

Thus, once again, if Kise was not roleblocked, one of either Kise or Socio has to be lying.

Thirdly, my main reason, is Socio not voting Kise earlier and Kise not voting Socio. This leads me to the strong belief that they are either scum together, or possibly Kise turned scum, although I'm leaning Kise is traitor of some sort and knows Socio is scum and Socio realized if he wants to put up a town persona he must target Kise in this situation or he is screwed.

There is a giant lack of sincerity in the fact that Socio took so long to vote Kise.

I'm leaning Farside or DDD as last scum, but we need to figure out this Kise/Socio business today...

Tans is either SK or Town, but he wasn't in the mafia gang. I can also see Tans/Farside as scum together... this would however mean there is a serial killer that is neither of them.

Let's kill Socio, k?

[Blackberry]

I should re-emphasize, I am of very high certainty that there is not a Roleblocker.

[Blackberry]

Vote: Socio

[Blackberry]

Also, farside's reasons for voting Tans reak of scum-notion when anyone (scum or town) could easily look at last season's set-up and deduced the correct ability. Farside is smarter than that to vote Tans purely for this voting ability nonsense. This strongly suggests Farside is not town.

[Blackberry]

An additional note, Socio has been slacking all day after his scum buddy faked-bussed him yesterday and made him look "Cleared".

VP - as me and you were the only ones that actually believed Hindu yesterday, do you agree that if scum had to choose between Socio and Hindu, that they would have sacrificed Hindu cuz he was on a sinking ship and it would have made Socio look more clear? How Hindu got lynched and the reason's people had for voting him over Socio strongly smelled of Mafia-bussing to better their situation... X_X

[Blackberry]

A: I think Tans is @ L-1 since you took a vote off and Socio put a vote on...

B: Something to add... only twice have I had "epiphanies" in the shower, i.e., while not being at the computer. The first was my epiphany that Esmee could not be a town role... but then I outguessed myself and thought I was thinking too hard. My second was realizing Socio is scum and after looking at his interactions, waiting so long to vote Kise seems really insincere. I'm sticking with my gut on this and not backing down.

[Blackberry]

Anyone that stills thinks Tans is scum needs to check their scumdar X_X.

I concur Socio - Fargrass seems most plausible. At this moment, I've gotten the most "Insincere" vibes from those two. Now we have the impossible task of convincing others to win the game.

[Blackberry]

bold/underline towntell...

Also, I recall when I was town about to get lynched, people kept telling me I'm "flailing"... I think they were scum too...

We may not have as many mislynches as you all think

... something to keep in mind... i.e., let's kill Socio/Kise scum first. It's IMPOSSIBLE for them to both be town in any way, shape, or form.

[Blackberry]

Scum:

* Socio
* Fargrass
* Kise? - Traitor?

KKN hasn't rang any insincere bells, but Socio & Fargrass have.

[Blackberry]

Socio lurking means nothing to you who claimed he was Rita yet you know he isn't Rita yet you're not voting him?

Ok I'll call you sometime soon! ^_^ (lol)

[Blackberry]

I don't think a "Flailing" Scum, VP, would accuse someone he has no chances of getting lynched... X_X

Tans - if you are town, which I strongly believe you are, getting yourself mislynched is very very bad >=(.

[Blackberry]

If Socio were town, why would you claim that it didn't work? You would have been able to CLEAR him and yourself... and for that matter... what has your "OTHER" ability transformed into or w/e? O_o

[Blackberry]

Huh? You can still look for Dexter?

Did your "Other" ability get changed/turned into something yet? O_o

[Blackberry]

I can tell Kise is probably telling the truth about his ability in a sense by this statement: "Failure to find them before they're

killed or arrested

leaves me aimless"... although I'd have to recheck Season 1 to make sure the mod hasn't used similar wording before.

[Blackberry]

Fargrass - can you be more explicit as to why you are unvoting Tans who you just claimed to believe was scum with strong conviction because of his reaction to claiming VT... ?

[Blackberry]

Scum only have nake fake-claims, not entire roles (Season 1 of Dexter). And yes, I do realize I am probably over-doing the flavor-guessing and the mod will probably hate me at the end depending on how right or wrong I am. I said I believe him about his ability, I don't necessairly know his alignment currently, etc., etc... I do however know the mod uses the phrase "killed or arrested".

[Blackberry]

As a mod, why change your modding procedure? What mod gives scum fake-ability claims? X_X

Mods like consistency, at least, I do as a Mod. Changing safe-claim procedures from season to the next when I assume Juls has a full series in mind would drastically challenge the balance and set-up of all future instances. Mods love consistency, trust me >_<, and would not do something like that.

[Blackberry]

My point being, why fix what isn't broken? Mod would not give fake-ability claims. Especially when any mafia could just go look at last game and come up with an ability or flavor based on what they have seen before.

[Blackberry]

Also, fargrass, give me an example of things you have "changed".

[Blackberry]

I'm sorry BB I can't do that. Do to [redacted] and other reasons.

How many games have you modded that you've completed and you can't give me one example? Why are you arguing something so small yet have no grounds to back it up? O_o Perhaps you have to argue it because if you don't it gives your target a clear by.

[Blackberry]

I'm suspect of the fact Socio took so long to vote you.

I'm also highly suspect of Farside for not making a lot of sense. Setting up Tans with the VT claim question and then voting him and then unvoting him and arguing nonsense with me X_x.

Let's see where the DDD pressure goes too though, that will be interesting. O_o... Although a part of me is inclined to trust VP's read on DDD.

[Blackberry]

Lila would be the SK (or Traitor), not Dexter X_x... I think so anyways.

[Blackberry]

If you've "modded enough" yet can't point to an example of something you "changed" this suggests there is a hole in your point that as a mod you changed something that is comparable to changing so that mafia have a fake ability-claim.

I.e., you just want to discredit my argument so you can continue to attack Kise, yet you have nothing to discount.

[Blackberry]

If you've "modded enough" yet can't point to an example of something you "changed" this suggests there is a hole in your point that as a mod you changed something that is comparable to changing so that mafia have a fake ability-claim.

I.e., you just want to discredit my argument so you can continue to attack Kise, yet you have nothing to discount.

Look at my account, has it modded anything? NO! Yet I've modded plenty of games. Draw the lines.

Ya I was just looking at that X_x. I assume that means you wish to be anonymous?

[Blackberry]

Blackberry's points about Socio and Kise both require a number of assumptions that I either believe to be unreasonable or plain incorrect.

KKN has basically gone radio silent in my opinion and I'm almost feeling his lynch more than tans.

Blackberry, Grassface has already unvoted so there's no pressure there and even if he had unvoted there is absolutely no possibility of me getting lynched with the town bloc in charge more or less and so again no pressure. Basically I'm on cruise control; I want to get the town bloc guys together and work on who we're lynching today and put this thing away.

What points require a number of assumptions that are unreasonable or incorrect?

Kise already admits he wasn't roleblocked. Point for Blackberry.

[Blackberry]

DDD hiding behind his "Town voting block" strikes me as non-townish. Don't you WANT us to think you're town?

[Blackberry]

Vote: Socio

I may or may not change it soon, not sure yet. Leaning possibly Fargrass. It's probably not good for me to not be paying attention to KKN though.

Most Likely:
* Socio/Fargrass?
* DDD/Socio?

Possible:
* KKN/Fargrass?
* KKN/Socio?
* DDD/KKN?

Unlikely:

* DDD/Fargrass?

Tans and VP are my two top town reads right now. Kise I believe is not a

mafia

for the time being. Traitor or something weird I can see (survivor-turned-mafia). We'll see...

[Blackberry]

Why isn't it happening?

Me & Kise & Socio & Fargrass & KKN & Tans can't all vote him? O_o

You don't think it's beneficial for the TOWN to see how he reacts so the rest of us can get a good read on him?

[Blackberry]

Pick one of KKN, Socio, Fargrass to fry then, and let's fry X_x.

[Blackberry]

Unvote

Re-skimmed Hindu and how he pressured Socio before there was even a claim...

Also noticed his lack of interaction with

Fargrass

(i.e., not quoting and responding).

Vote: Fargrass

[Blackberry]

I think everyone is scum until proven otherwise. ^_^

Not Mafia: VP, Tans, Kise

...

Far's turn to bat.

...

I can still see Kise-Traitor or perhaps Tans-SK... If there is a SK, Far & Tans are prime suspects and there is factual reasonings behind that.

... I actually did not realize/look at the Budja wagon... I don't think it's IMPOSSIBLE scum isn't on it... although DDD and possible-traitor Kise are on it... Maybe scum didn't want to look suspect and thus didn't want to hammer but Kise's hammer caught them off-guard.

[Blackberry]

I am going to look into this Budja wagon thing because it does look particularly odd to me though and makes me confused and I don't know why X_X.

[Blackberry]

"That anyone could read you better than VP"... just FYI... (A) I believe I emphasized that VP's read on you sounds pretty strong to me and (B) I believe I've strongly emphasized I want to put pressure on you and get your genuine reactions so I can get a better read on you instead of all this crap of "hiding behind your Miami Metro Alliance".

[Blackberry]

Just did a quick re-read of Hindu in ISO, thinking it may be KKN due to this:

Socio KKN scumteam possibility? It's likely. Socio's ignored him almost all game. You guys need to look into this.

This was near when he was lynched. So if we re-read his ISO - maybe he was trying to make it look like KKN and Socio were def town?

Personally I think I would throw one of my scum buddies in with who I thought was town if I knew I was going down as scum and include someone that was town.

Though this is all WIFOMy.

Thoughts?

Exact same here.

I.E... PoE... Fargrass Scum

[Blackberry]

If we assume the Miami Metro Police Allies are all town. I believe you are town. Five down.

That leaves:

Fargrass
Kise
Socio
KNN

...

Kise is either Traitor or turned mafia, not a starting mafia...

Therefore, if we both agree one of KKN/Socio is scum, by PoE the third scum is Fargrass.

I will admit something in DDD's recent post in particular made me think town.

[Blackberry]

3 scum, one traitor or survivor-who-turns either, seems possible.

Last game had four scum total.

Or Kise could be town and not turn-scum. I don't see an implausibility there.

... What do you think? You think Kise is flat-out mafia and claimed Day 1 for no reasonwhatsoever? Or you think there is 2 mafia and one-traitor-ish person?

PS: One of my only games I remember from back in the day, there was 12 players: 3 scum, 1 traitor, and a SK... so yes I do think it is indeed possible. It was in fact my outguessing the mod that allowed me to figure out the exact set-up. ^_^

Also, if it turns out there IS a SK, your chances of being mafia or SK signifigant jump, as does one other person. But that's a stretch and will wait till a later time to be explained (i.e., when I claim).

...

I am going to look specifically at a: Hindu/KKN/Fargrass posibility. Hindu's pressure on Socio earlier in the day does not seem scum-on-scum. Kise I doubt is a started-off-mafia.

[Blackberry]

I'll keep my vote on Fargrass... but I do really want to hear from KKN at this moment.

[Blackberry]

So, you didn't read this game when you came in to it?

This is season two dumb ass.

What is the purpose in calling Tans a "dumb ass." Scum-anger for nailing your scum team?

[Blackberry]

Socio, Me-You-Tans should form a voting bloc to mock the other one.

(in other words... support us in our KKN/Fargrass conquest, xoxo)

[Blackberry]

It was mostly a joke, but I'm still asking you to put pressure on KKN/Fargrass if you think either are mafia.

After reading how much Hindu pressured you BEFORE he claimed, I'm putting you out of lynch-season this Day.

[Blackberry]

I am wary to hammar though since he claimed tracker... I'm going to read up on his reactions to Hindu, etc., etc... then I'll decide if I'm voting him or not. I actually believe his claim for the *most* part. If Juls were to make anyone a tracker it would be Doakes... X_X... I'm actually strongly believing his claim and not wanting to hammar. I want to hear if he has any more flavor. Also need to see his reactions to Fargrass today...

Also, the more I think about it, what VP is basically saying by saying DDD is town, is that "DDD can't be scum unless I'm scum"... which is making me think about VP more in light of KKN's claim that Fargrass didn't go anywhere, etc.

[Blackberry]

KKN was asking about flavor text attached to the ability... why did you ask that? You never explained, or gave a reaction to our responses.

Although he didn't CC outright, why didn't you CC?

He has been hinting about Fargrass a bit... was that hinting or was that something else?

I'm inclined to believe KKN at this moment.

Fargrass, do you confirm you didn't go anywhere last night?

...

Also thinking about it, KKN knows I'm a power role and he knows I didn't CC HIndu, so claiming Tracker IS the safe role to claim cuz he knows I won't CC it... And Doakes is in my mind the most likely to be tracker... then again...

my role and my ability is not at all what I would have put together

... which is making me think perhaps Doakes is lying cuz he think it'd be believable, let me go read Season 1 and see if Roles & Abilities were predicatable with one another

[Blackberry]

I'll give KKN time to respond.

I'll also give Fargrass the opportunity to hammar if Fargrass KNOWS he is lying.

I kind of want to hammar but I'm really fearful of KKN being a real tracker and thus it being my fault if it's wrong. I keep going back and fourth, and agree it doesn't make sense not to have targetted me, at the very least, you would have been able to confirm yourself or something.

KKN's early interactions acted like he knew what a PR ability/etc. would look like...

[Blackberry]

@hin, do you have any flavor with your ability, specifically with your ability. I'm watching you, this claim seems really weird.

KKN seems to genuinely be interested in the flavor ability, etc., etc.... but if KKN was really a tracker, why would he even ask that and be interested?

...

Actually, I decided I'm going to hammar KKN because of this... although... I want to see how Fargrass responds. If I hammar now that means Fargrass doesn't have to commit on whether or not she'll fake a PR. If KKN is scum, the only person he can safely-ish accuse to track without being wrong is the scum partner, plus if we believed him, it would have guaranteed both him and farside safety from being lynched today.

...

On second thought, if KKN was scum, why would you fake-claim tracker knowing full-well that you didn't counter the tracker that claimed earlier? Or is he just not paying attention? Doing both scenarios in my head and still can't see him being a real tracker... and you just said he isn't illogical, so why fake-claim a tracker when he didn't CC the other tracker claim? ... Or is it because of what I said earlier he knew tracker was 100% the only thing I wasn't and he could claim it without me CCing it.

...

KKN I am awaiting answers.

Fargrass I am awaiting your confirmation of not going anywhere.

[Blackberry]

Can you post something more convincing? ... Or should I just hammar you? Your lack of effort and interest/intensity is not helping...

[Blackberry]

You haven't commented on why you wouldn't target me or Kise, both people who claimed to have abilities.

Also, for some reason, I just realized Kise making a "no selection" really doesn't make a lot of sense to me X_x.

[Blackberry]

Considering I've adamently stated I'm close to hammaring you... why aren't you posting more? I'd expect your thoughts and reasons why you're not mafia, how you may or may not have hinted as your claim, and excessive reasons of who you think mafia is or "if I die here is who I think mafia is."

...

[Blackberry]

Let's all just kill Kise, who in the worst-case-scenario is a Survivor who has no intentions of helping us.

KKN can either track someone @ random *cough*VP*cough*, or if he wants to confirm himself, he can track me.

In the meantime, I will be very disappointed if people (Tans, KKN) quit and/or Juls gets frustrated and scraps this game. Of all the games I'm playing at the moment I've put the most effort into this one because I thought it was interesting and I find the flavor enjoyable and challenging. Don't let my effort go to waste. I also appreciate the effort Juls has put into modding this game and would be very frustrated if it got turned to scrap. I honestly don't think anyone here means to offend anyone. We're all just playing a game. I agree for the most part that this is just a game and people are meant to have fun. I say we put our misgivings aside and enjoy the game. If you think someone is scummy or acting scummy, you can say so. I do not think anyone here actually things anyone else is stupid or means to upset anyone. If anyone does do anything to upset someone or be aggressive, I think we all realize it is morelikely that person just taken anger from somewhere in their life and throwing it on an outlet that they see fits (an online forum where they can't get backlash for expressing their anger). We're all adults, nobody here genuinely means to upset anyone. Let's play the game and have fun. I hereforth apologize to anyone on behalf of everyone that has upseted someone. Now, let's continue please.

Besides the fact I'm a bit confused about who is scum and who is town... Kise is either:

A) Mafia gambiting with his early claim
B) Traitor hinting to his scum
C) Survivor/Third-Party who has no intentions of helping us anyways and we'll have no idea if he was turned into scum or not so keeping him alive is not good, and scum won't kill him for us so we'll end up lynching him regardless

So, let's kill my IRL friend, Kise, and then me and Kise will go get a beer! ^_^

UNVOTE, VOTE: KISE

[Blackberry]

Socio, BB, Far, KKN... just need AGB and I think we can lynch Kise... X_X

DDD you might want to stop hiding behind your town block, because if you haven't noticed, I think some people are starting to slowly come to some ideas that people outside the block aren't scum, and thus leaving you and VP left to choose from...

I've already eliminated Socio & Tans as scum. At the moment I'm believing KKN, which also states that Fars at the worst wasn't the killing mafia, meaning Kise-VP-DDD are left X_x.

...

We can confirm KKN tomorrow at the worst if that's what yall want. For all we know, Kise is already-turned Mafia.

[Blackberry]

Also, just FYI, I looked @ KKN's idea of his vote summary and starting redoing it myself to get some ideas.

Ironic to note that the only people Amrun voted were town (Me, Tans, Socio)... (I excluded her RV as IMO those aren't genuine votes)... And looking @ Hindu's & Socio's voting interactions, pretty sure Socio can't be his scum partner.

[Blackberry]

I started a new one. I'll figure out how to post a link.

[Blackberry]

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreads ... utput=html does that work X_x

[Blackberry]

Red BG means mafia voted for you... blue background means you voted a confirmed-townie... pink background means you voted a confirmed-mafia... green background means mafia voted you... I wasn't originally intending to share this so it's skewed with the assumption for yall that i'm a townie X_x

[Blackberry]

My original intention was to actually look at the vote frequency, i.e., I thought town would most likely be sporadic, while scum would be vote switching as a consistent rate.

Black means someone voted you.

[Blackberry]

*Green means confirmed-town voted you

[Blackberry]

I'll vote:

Kise
DDD
**or VP... VP's saying that he can read DDD strikes me as "I could be scum with DDD" or "I am scum using my knowledge of DDD to convert him to my side"

...

ALSO, something about how VP brought up the wagon on Budja seemed weird to me.

...

I would prefer KKN track me to confirm himself... hopefully Mafia will take this as an opportuntiy to kill me... which might not be a bad thing

[Blackberry]

Has AGM been prodded? X_x Do we need another replacement?

...

Everyone list the top two/three people they are willing to kill so we can narrow things down and get somewhere-ish.

[Blackberry]

Photo Found

I see blood on her face...

Conclusion: Kill Kise

[Blackberry]

You realize if we kill Kise and he comes up Mafia then we can safely conclude that the Rita claim was a gambit and was a safe-claim for mafia... just saying X_x

[Blackberry]

KKN - would you vote for Kise?

Me, You, Socio, Fargrass...

Then we just need Tans, if Tans says no, I'm willing to switch to Tans.

...

We're all going to want to kill Kise sooner or later, why prolong it?

Also, if Kise doesn't have a good win condition right now, why would he NOT select Rita? X_x

[Blackberry]

YAY!

[Blackberry]

AGM, solve the enigma which is life X_X.

Tans, in the meantime, vote Kise if you want to live.

xoxo

[Blackberry]

I'd vote DDD at this point, due to his lack of participation.

Also, VP, where do you get this read on DDD when he barely talks?

[Blackberry]

I'm interested in hearing KKN's response O_o

[Blackberry]

Tans is so obv town... Can we kill DDD or VP for being inconsistent?

[Blackberry]

VP just stated both me and kkn would be alive tomorrow ... Wouldn't only mafia think that ? Town would say if. Also when you think someone is sincere you put them at the bottom of your list and dot
Let odd feelings change ur mind. Thus inconsistent. Let's kill VP. Kise if u didn't die last night you should
Join 

[Blackberry]

The last part was referring to IRL 

[Blackberry]

I was pointing out your logic and applying it to vp who suggested BOTH claimed PRs would be alive today

[Blackberry]

Anyone that still thinks Tans could be scum after he just metad DDD is scummy X_X. Scum-Tans would not waste his time to go meta DDD.

[Blackberry]

I'm on iPhone still. Tans if u r lynched give me ur reads or if ur mafia don't. 

[Blackberry]

ok, today is mass claim today.

AGM goes first. I think we all need to claim, but DDD, BB and myself need to go last. I'm pretty much indifferent about the order beyond that.

[Blackberry]

I think I will like this:

[Blackberry]

2) AlmasterGM

7) fargrass
3) Sociopath

6) Debonair Danny DiPietro
4) Blackberry
5) VP Baltar

...

I prefer this order.

Regardless, the three of us agree AGM claims first. ^_^

[Blackberry]

*waits for AGM to claim*

[Blackberry]

Disagree. Claim now.

[Blackberry]

The longer you stall claiming AGM the scummier you'll look. Just FYI.

[Blackberry]

I change my mind to:

AGM
Socio
Fargrass

... That's fine with me.

Plus, Far-Me-DDD-VP all know Socio-AGM are the remaining scum, but we're pretending like we don't know it ^_^.

[Blackberry]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Fargrass, or Socio, one of you go.

Post #1505 is still win...

I have a slight issue with Harry's claim that we can discuss later... the more that I think about it the more issues I have with it... but I think Far & Socio claiming first is better.

[Blackberry]

Actually, to clarify, it states if Dexter kills ANYONE, you no longer protect him, is that correct?

[Blackberry]

Also, I would like any mod-confirmation that is possible what gray indicates: Neutral? Any third-party? Serial killer? Second mafia (very unlikely but if it's info Juls can reveal that's good ^_^).

[Blackberry]

When you say not part of the mafia, does that include not being a traitor?

[Blackberry]

When you say not part of the mafia, does that include not being a traitor?

Errr, this is a yes or no question .

Does not being part of the mafia include he can't be a traitor.

[Blackberry]

In other words... hypothetically, would a traitor come up as red (=being part of the mafia) or non-red (other)?

[Blackberry]

Fargrass also should make it clear whether they have an actual ability or that's just flavor. And Matsuka was the science lead on the BHB case and did make the break on the marina rocks.

~~

Claim: Dexter Morgan

Short paraphrase flavor: Everyone sees me as their brother, friend, or the blood spatter guy and can't see the monster inside. I'm on the brink of being discovered with Rita finding out about my "addiction", my sister investigating me, and Doakes tailing me. How is it in a room of cops that Doakes is the only one that senses the monster?

I have two abilities beyond the standard voting one. Dark Defender which is a delayed vig kill, the first night I submit a target but all I do that night is set up my kill room; the next night I actually go through with the kill but I can abort it any time before the kill goes through. The fact that I target but not actually target someone nature of the first night of my ability is why I hammered the first tracker claim and was extremely skeptical of KKN's as well. I targeted LL the first night thinking he was pulling a WWF Royal Rumble lurk job. The second night I set up a kill room on Kise and last night I killed him.

My other ability is a passive one, Bay Harbor Butcher, where if my kill goes through I start investigating as guilty starting the night my kill goes through. So anyone investigating me last night or in the future would get a guilty on me while nights one and two they would've got an innocent.

I thought they only get a guilty on you if you kill a non-mafia?

...

You really didn't have to claim IMO...

I'm not claiming.

*waits for reactions*

[Blackberry]

Actually, it doesn't hurt to name-claim.

I am Lieutenant Maria LaGuerta. - the Lieutenant part is in my name, which is why I asked Esmee earlier if everything she posted was correct. However, afterwards I checked the wiki and realized her position of Lieutenant is the correct title. So my guess is either: Lieutenant's (myself) still keep their title, or that the mod made a minor error.

Esmee and Tom are both mentioned in my storyline. Which I hinted at previously.

I have already claimed to someone here. They can agree or disagree with any of the statements below:

If I were to claim, it's obvious that either I am telling the truth, or if I am scum, that I planned out my entire claim and every detail the moment I entered the game. In other words, my claim is very believable.

My second remark, is, that if I claim it will only benefit scum, it will not benefit town. Claiming will probably make it impossible to catch scum, while if I don't claim, it might be possible for me to catch scum tomorrow.

...

In other news, I think DDD is confirmed-town 100%, and I already know who I want to kill, but I'll let VP talk first.

[Blackberry]

Also, my outguessthemod reason for why Esmee wasn't in the game: I thought I would have an "Other" or triggered ability that I would gain Esmee's ability if she died. But I do not have such an ability.

Although I did take my idea back because I thought if I had it it might make it obvious Esmee was in the game (although not necessairly, I could have assumed it was related to Doakes or Angel or Esmee's Lover, etc).

But I thought from a modding perspective, it makes perfect storyline sense and they might think it cool for me to be a back-up of Esmee's power.

[Blackberry]

I thought they only get a guilty on you if you kill a non-mafia?

That's not what my role PM says and I certainly never said that.

I misremembered something, my bad.

[Blackberry]

Why do you think DDD is 100%-confirmed town? And if you do think he is, then wouldn't claiming everything to get his input be more beneficial than not claiming?

You really THINK I should claim? --_--

...

Also, I'm pretty sure DDD is town because: Lila confirmed him as a role... Harry can protect him...

ALTHOUGH, I want to go on record as saying my original thoughts were that Dexter and Masuka would be safe claims/scum this game.

...

Actually now that I think about it...

Two-man scum team, and Dexter-SK who could turn Lila if Lila finds him does make sense... And the Dexter being alone and being immune from death until he kills also advantages him... plus to be honest, there is one of Socio-Fargrass I'm pretty sure is town... which leaves either you or DDD... but I can't see you being scum because of how you've been scumhunting.

Regardless, VP you know who I want to lynch today. I'm very confident he/she is/was scum with Hindu.

[Blackberry]

My other reason for confirming DDD as town had to wait till after you claim, but I realized it's null, especially if he was a delayed SK. My thought if he was a delayed SK was that he was lying and he could kill instantly and thus could kill Night 2, etc...

[Blackberry]

DDD-SK and you-know-who Scum makes a LOT more sense than any other possibility right now.

[Blackberry]

Here is my issue with AGM's claim: If he is Harry it is like he is a somewhat confirmed mason with Dexter... and as me & VP already know, Amrun & LL were masons.... also Harry in the last game did not have a vote, because,

Harry is not an alive person

... O_o

Also, Rita, a third-party, was seeking out Dexter.

This leads me to believe it makes sense that Dexter is in fact a serial killer.

...

Fargrass, can you clarify what you meant about the rocks and investigating them and getting no result? That doesn't make sense to me X_x.

...

I'm surprised Dexter doesn't have more abilities. This also makes me think DDD is hiding something. I think DDD is likely to be a SK of some sorts, but I do not want to lynch him today.

...

One of Fargrass-Socio has to be scum, IMO. Socio's hammar on tans struck me as odd when tans was bleeding town, BUT, the way Socio & Hindu interacted BEFORE Hindu claimed makes me think Socio is town for sure.

...

@ VP/DDD: You think it's only slight? If you think me, you, DDD are all town... redo the math and tell me the chances are that it will cost us the game...

...

Is it possible Socio-Farside are both scum, and that Dexter is a delayed SK? Another reason for me not to claim.

[Blackberry]

I meant Lila was seeking out Dexter, not Rita.

And I don't think it's getting too flavor-dependent. A townie randomly makes him unnightkillable... a third party is seeking him out... all signs point to SK.

[Blackberry]

I don't think DDD is the correct lynch today

I already stated that I do not either.

...

I disagree with Lila seeking out Dexter though. Lila claimed Day 1, for NO reason. Plus if you think storyline, it makes perfect sense for her to be seeking out Dexter and then become a killer (gain a kill ability, or join him,etc). I think, bottom-line, she needed to find Dexter and she thought that was the best way to do it was to use her safeclaim and try to get Dex to come forward.

[Blackberry]

Also, Socio, post your flavor.

If you're town, it is your responsibility to help us see you're town.

...

You would think town would not be LAZY at this point in the game where it's very possible we're approaching LYLO.

[Blackberry]

2) They used that investigation on Sociopath N1. Though Amrun could not speak to LL in their QT because she was in my investigation room, LL was posting his thoughts and investigation result in their Mason QT. Whether or not LL's death that night affected the result of that investigation is unclear to me, though I suspect it would not since the investigation should have resolved before his death I think.

LL made the investigation. Typicallly if a cop makes an investigation and dies that night, why would he get a result? It would be unfair if he made the investigation, he dies, but still gets to pass his result to Amrun.

Just saying.

Also, the fact Amrun died Night 2 points pretty strongly that neither VP nor DDD are

mafia-aligned

as both of them knew she was useless at that point and there might have been other, more dangerous, power roles out there.

[Blackberry]

Btw, what was the signal and all the possible signals for Amrun to give you? O_o

[Blackberry]

Hmmmm, ok.

I was entertaining the possibility of you (VP) being scum and making up their claims/Amrun being in fact still a cop. But I don't see how anyone would be intelligent enough that if Amrun was in fact a cop to claim "her and LL were only cops if both were alive" then Amrun dying would insinuate that you weren't mafia cuz you knew she was useless at that point... But as I said earlier, you're really scumhunting and doing lots of things I would expect you to do as town.

Regardless...

SOCIO

Also, does anyone else's background contain that much of their storyline? Rita's "bg" seems to contain her entire story for that season -_-.

My storyline only talks about the beginning of the season, i.e., kind of where I left off Season 1 (Tom hating me) and where I was now at the beginning of Season 2 (being demoted, disliking my new boss Esmee, etc.).

...

Also, you've been here for a long time (errr, 30+ minutes) and it took you that long to post that? Not to mention, you focus more on me asking about your flavor than you do about who you think is scum now that everyone's claimed?

...

Socio is scum.

[Blackberry]

VP - since your on - does your background contain pretty-much your storyline of the whole season, or only where you start off coming into the Season 2 of Dexter?

Same to everyone.

This is really important IMO.

...

Vote: Socio

[Blackberry]

@Far: About DDD/VP... it makes sense, they wouldn't let me kill off Kise last day cuz they knew they were vigging him... just POI.

I'm thinking:

3 mafia, 1 traitor Kise... it makes sense with so much power roles... but I don't know

[Blackberry]

I'm scarlet. FYI. I'm mad socio said he isn't putting effort in and if we do get this wring bcuz of him I'll be extra mad. Looking at Hindu and socio I didn't think it was him. But his hammer on tans and flavor claim don't help him. If socio isn't going to put effort in the game let's get him replaced.

Fargrass-socio would be the hopeful scernario IMO cuz any other combo were probably screwed.

[Blackberry]

Screw effort when I can just coast.
I don't even need to try, and in the end its pointless anyways.

Not playing to your wincon.

[Blackberry]

1. bb would u know if you were targetted by a rb?

I don't see a town benefit to answering this question, as it pretty much answers "BB, do you have an investigative role and/or a role that could reveal someone's alignment?"... why do you ask? O_o My thought is "Fargrass wants to know if she should kill and/or roleblock me tonight."

I still conclude that there is no roleblocker of any kind. To add to my previous reasons, my night talk with VP began right away, i.e., if there is a roleblocker than either VP can't be roleblocked, OR, VP is scum and thus wouldn't be roleblocked and can communicate and thus why it began so soon.

2. does the majority agree scum with agm sp and me?

Yes/hoping. I can see VP possible scum.

...

On a side note:

@DDD

What is your flavor/storyline flavor? More specifically, what does it say concerning Rita/Lila, just curious.

@DDD/VP

Would it be possible to suggest your targets tonight? I have an idea that *could* help us cover more bases. I need to ask the mod a question real quick. VP, I would suggest you to target me so I can tell you my plan.

SK I could see as DDD, but right now we need to hunt scum IMO and cross our fingers DDD isn't SK.

...

To be completely honest, if I were to go on ROLE ABILITIES, I would see AGM as town ability and VP as a scum ability... but I'll let that pass for now (last game the SK got to send messages at night to Dexter... just food for thought ).

...

The fact Farside focused more on others than Socio as soon as people claimed gives me hope Far-Socio are the scumteam.

...

The more I think about it, if AGM was scum he took a huge risk by claiming what he did about Dexter... i.e., AGM is probably tow.

...

I thought of more questions/something else last night while in bed but I can't remember what it was... or maybe it was just the plan for giving us the best oppurtunity/most options (thus why I would suggest targets for VP & DDD).

...

SOCIO - You realize DDD & VP (most likely) want to lynch you, I am already voting you, and if Fargrass doesn't want to be seen as your buddy (as she recently realized, one of you-AGM-Fargrass will get lynched today), she will need to start bussing you ASAP... are you going to step up your game or just give up? ... Also you somewhat insinuated your gameplan was to coast on the fact you vs. hindu kind of cleared you, at least that is what your quotes indicated to me... And the whole "I'm not doing stuff to see how people react" doesn't sit well with my considering how far we are into the game. You've seen how people have been acting, reaction-tests are for when you haven't gotten enough from people. Is there anyone you feel you haven't gotten enough from?

...

OH! I remember my other question.

@AGM

Does your role CONFIRM Dexter is in the game, OR, does it state that "if" he is in the game... ?

...

Also, I think it is possible that Kise was in fact a Traitor, considering A: I agree there seems to be a lot of power roles, and B: a traitor wouldn't be in RED as that insinuates mafia, whereas mafia know other mafia C: Juls wouldn't clarify my simple Traitor question (Hypothetically, if there was a traitor, would he come up red or non-red?)... I'm also guessing mafia have some sort of manipulating/redirecting role like they did last time. Also, considering the Doakes-Tracker, I'm guessing he probably had disadvantages to his role that he didn't reveal (as it is angry doakes, who actually does kill someone in S2 now that I remember it, which means Dex should have killed him ).

Also, another idea I had, is what if to make up for all the power roles, mafia have an "extra kill" they can use on any night... this means DDD could in fact be mafia and killed Kise that night... just an IDEA I had, though I am leaning against it. Although killing Kise would be dumb, it clears DDD.

...

I had also thought killing KKN, although he didnt reveal his target, meant that mafia is someone who was afraid KKN might target them. Which would not be fargrass (I don't think).

Fargrass can you reexplain your abilities one more time? Can you actually choose to do anything each night?

[Blackberry]

Let's get 'em, yo.

[Blackberry]

Do you think before you post or do you always just blurt out the random things that come to mind?

Do you just thrive on being a douche to other people?

...

DDD what if I told you that you need to target who I tell you to target or the chances of us losing the game go up. And thus it'd be all your fault. VP can vouch that this may be the case.

...

Also, what is this Kise-joins-scum-team thing? That's making a big assumption of how the traitor works, isn't it? O_o Old-school traitor doesn't work like that at all, just FYI. I am fairly confident Kise was a traitor of sorts, thus why he claimed so early to signal to his scum-buddies, thus why he is gray, not red or darkblue.

...

DDD - do you not think it's odd that Rita mentions you cheating on her and breaking up, yet your storyline only discusses your storyline of Episode 1 of the season? Do you not think it's odd Socio is scumming it up, point-blank?

...

Fargrass - I don't see this Chew - PM - question thing you are referring to O_o.

[Blackberry]

So, you are confident one of those will happen 100%?

I don't trust you and DDD 100%, DDD I think is SK and VP your role makes sense for scum. But I want Socio lynched today so we'll go with that for now.

[Blackberry]

DDD gets a dumb strike for thinking the mod provides fake-claims.

...

DDD - Do you think Socio doesn't think we will find his partner after he is lynched and that is why he is like "I'm scum, lol, lynch me b*tches"? That would only make sense for VP-scum. Thoughts?

[Blackberry]

VP, who are you targetting tonight?

[Blackberry]

What does it hurt to know who VP is targetting? It doesn't help mafia at all X_X.

[Blackberry]

VP, who are you targetting tonight?

You should know already. I'm not answering this in thread.

Okie dokie.

[Blackberry]

Socio already admitted he is giving up and that he is scum.

Kill him, stop trying to save your partner VP.

If I am dead tomorrow, look @ VP better-er.

Fargrass and AGM BOTH strike me as town. Like, a lot. Moreso than VP-DDD. So after Socio, look in the other direction X_X.

[Blackberry]

@Socio - <snip> who do you think is a better lynch than you right now?

DDD. I don't trust anyone whom has a kill in a theme that is filled with SKs.
The fact that he screwed up the numbers means we are potentially in MYLO as well.
And if I was scum, he would need to die as an SK anyways.

Although with all this talk about mafia traitors, it could even possibly be LYLO.
Cause if a NL happened to odd out the players, and some new blood joined the scum ranks, than they could potentially be at 3 people tomorrow.

You want to kill DDD now?

DDD claimed a kill on Kise.
There is a kill on KKN.

Thus, mafia killed KKN since no one else is confessing to it.

Thus, DDD is not mafia.

You want to kill a potential SK and leave 2 Mafia alive, as you just stated, you agree there is 2 mafia alive cuz you said if there is a traitor that it'd make mafia at 3 people. Logically, that makes no sense. I thought you were smart?

[Blackberry]

Needz more Socio hammering.

EVERYBODY

Bus


Bus


Bus


Bus, Bus, Bus, Bus


Bus, Bus, Bus, Bus, Bus


EVERYBODY

Bus, Bus


Bus, Bus, Bus, Bus, Bus

[Blackberry]

I don't see any questions directed from grass to me, farside.

Also, I think we already have a plan to win.

I'm interested in hearing your plan through, but I'm likely not to comment on it and just wrap up the Socio vote and go to night.

PS: I already know who the remaining mafia are... so... ^_^

[Blackberry]

Plus, I'm pretty sure there isn't a Roleblocker... Plus, even if a No Kill benefited the mafia, the downside would be an extra lynch for us towns-folks. So mafia will be skewered. ^_^

[Blackberry]

Not today, now stop stalling and lynch your partner please.

[Blackberry]

Far I think youre on the same page as the rest of us.

Now let's kill the scum.

[Blackberry]

Yall don't need to worry about me be scum, the moment I claim yall will know I'm town too. Don't worry! ^_^

[Blackberry]

vote: No lynch

[Blackberry]

I think AGM is scum 100%. FYI.

[Blackberry]

Vp if u don't believe me target AGM tonight and figure it out yourself by talking to him one on one

[Blackberry]

unvote

so I can think a bit

[Blackberry]

Fffffff

The reason I unvoted was cuz I suspected if we lynched AGM once it might be used and simultaneously clear me as town. Oh well x.X

[Blackberry]

I warned y'all we didt have as many lynches as y'all thought but u killed tans anyway

[Blackberry]

FYI:

Mafia weren't given fakeclaims
No roleblocker

BB knows how to outguess a mod >:-)

[Blackberry]

Technically...

We could have lynched AGM & simultaneously convinced AGM that I had some sort of bomb or bomb-planting role that I could use on myself or fargrass in order to attempt him to No Kill. I thought it very possible this to be believable considering me and VP's somewhat see-through attempts to get me Night-Killed... lol