Mini 1176: Dexter Season 2 (Game Over) Who Won?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

VOTE: VP Baltar

For getting me lynched in [redacted].

Are you giving VPB credit for my fine work?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

He can't be trusted yet.

And you claim to be able to read me, ha.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Gun to my head I prefer the tanstalas wagon to the KKN wagon but neither of them impresses really.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Gun to my head I prefer the tanstalas wagon to the KKN wagon but neither of them impresses really.

And yet you're voting no one. m'kay.

I never would've predicted that it would be VP Baltar who'd be the one to whine at me for that. What a surprise.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

show me your townie colors so we can start interrogating some criminals

But all I have right now in regards to a scum read is "gut lol" and I want to swing a bigger stick than a vote based on gut.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

You got it wrong Baltar, the correct guess was...

VOTE: Budja

It's going to take too long if I keep waiting for him to do something scummy. Given two mediocre wagons I'm looking for the limpest, lamest vote in them and that's Budja in my book. His reasons are weak and seem perfunctory and it looks like he's coasting on an early wagon. Dubious old half-meta also says he was a lot more active in Dexter S1 as town than he is so far here.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

^ I was one of the instigators of this wagon. What makes my reasons comparatively bad?

It's not that your arguments are worse (thought they're certainly not better) it's that you appear to be more willing to coast than others who are actively working to verify their reads or convince other people or do, ya know, something.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

V/LA be back sometime Monday

~Noted

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

But it was feeble, for DDD. I want more from him to know that wasn't a "I have to pretend to suspect someone" post.

Sure, I'm shameless enough to twist anything someone says into being scummy if I want them lynched but even I'm not willing to just fabricate their words entirely and Budja hasn't given me a whole lot to work with.

I will say that I think his shoulder shrug of a response to me lacks any passion or drive which I slide on the scum side of things both in general and in Budja's case, confirmation bias FTW.

~~

Baltar, you going to try to sell me on the Socio wagon or did you just create it to see who would jump on?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

The budja case I don't see. Budja is someone I think I understand better then most. I caught on to what he was saying and I think Tans is putting words in his mouth (so to speak). I don't know if the misrep is on purpose but everything that Tans says doesn't = scum hunting, hence my continuing vote and questions to him.

Bam, Budja partner #1 established.

Yes Locke, I get it, I am slack here. If I don't constantly post, I find it very hard to read back and decide.

So you know you need to be active to get reads to be an effective scumhunter and yet you've been completely content to limp through this game so far. Could you just claim scum already to make this easier for me?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I don't want to actively find Dexter or Rita and join town in case you guys suck. I'm thinking the mod's idea behind my role is that I can instantly lose as survivor, unless I put forth the effort to join town via my action. I'm still interested in playing as normal.

I don't really see any other way to interpret this.

Nah, I can certainly read it the other way or that he's completely fabricating what you're suggesting to help his town cred. Completely irrelevant though because we're not wasting a D1 lynch on a survivor.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Is no one else besides DDD seeing a farside/Budja connection?

Connections are pretty useless until you have flips. It can be handy to point them out to make sure other people see them but they should hardly be a focus until you know the assumption the connection is based on proves true.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Well, I'm hardly focusing on it, am I? It was a topic of discussion so I thought I'd say what I thought.

And I was just explaining why it's perfectly reasonable for no one to have responded to my opinion on the matter.

~~

On the survivor topic, if Kise is indeed a true survivor that means he can win with the scum team and thus if he makes MYLO/LYLO he is likely to vote with scum to achieve his win con. Thus while he doesn't hurt us terribly now we need to keep a close eye on him and if indeed his win con can be changed to town-aligned that would be something we'd have a vested interest in.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

On the survivor topic, if Kise is indeed a true survivor that means he can win with the scum team and thus if he makes MYLO/LYLO he is likely to vote with scum to achieve his win con. Thus while he doesn't hurt us terribly now we need to keep a close eye on him and if indeed his win con can be changed to town-aligned that would be something we'd have a vested interest in.

We would have no way of confirming if his win con could be changed or not. I don't think we can trust "Hey guys, I changed my win con, I'm town now" later in the game..

Actually it is possible that we'll know if he indeed has a finder capability or ability to connect with other players. Additionally, we might not have to trust it because odds are beyond decent that there's a vig or SK or both in the setup who can handle the Kise problem for us.

~~

Amrun's setup speculation is bad with a capital B, a capital A, and a capital D.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Bad as in incorrect? Entirely possible. I was just thinking about it so I thought I'd throw it out there. I'm a huge Dexter fan (obviously).

No, bad as in accurate. Of course, bad as in incorrect.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

DDD: I asked you. I still would like an answer

Did Budja give a reason for his vote? You called it the weakest reason, but hell I never even saw a reason for his vote. So why is Budja called out and not Kise?

He didn't give an explicit reason but I think it's pretty obvious from the context that it was a generic and pointless "lol, pressure" vote.

I think Amrun is town; I also think she's playing poorly with the mediocre VCA PoE approach to the day she's taking.

Put me in the camp wanting full flavor/ability claims from Kise.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@DDD - Are you saying you think it's reasonably likely there are no scum on the Budja wagon? What are your thoughts on LMP?

It's more likely than not that there's scum on the wagon but I can certainly see it as a possibility that there isn't and my contempt for all things VCA is strong. Amrun (and everyone else) shouldn't be artificially limiting the lynch pool based on dodgy assumptions.

Will review the game and LMP in particular later today.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

DDD: I asked you. I still would like an answer

Did Budja give a reason for his vote? You called it the weakest reason, but hell I never even saw a reason for his vote. So why is Budja called out and not Kise?

He didn't give an explicit reason but I think it's pretty obvious from the context that it was a generic and pointless "lol, pressure" vote.

I already answered most of it right here; farside. And if voting reasons were the sole reason for being called out it's an easy comparison because Budja's was a laughable non-explicit attempt at pressure and Kise who had (mediocre) reasons for his vote.

~~~

VPB, When I went back and read LMP alot of his play reminded me of my play in Friends and Enemies (Open 193) except he never finds his Amished tell to push which is the more bothersome part. He's pretty explicit about his struggles to get into the game and while that can be used to push off suspicion in my head it's also more likely town than scum. He's not a bad lynch for sheer uselessness, but his lynch doesn't get me excited either.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Do I know who Rita is in flavor? Certainly.

Do I know who Rita is in game? Afraid not.

Looks like my setp spec wasn't so bad after all, DDD.

You mean the setup spec that called a two person scum-team involving the protaganist of the series and a character that he kills at the end of the season this game is based on? Yeah, I'm still going with that being unlikely to the point of discounting it entirely.

~~

VOTE: Farside

Yeah this was my quiet second favorite target for scum on D1 and I don't see anything today that suggests she's more likely to be town than yesterday's reads indicated.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

P-edit: But my question is that if Dexter isn't scum, who is? I can see Dexter as scum or town, for this season. He was the enemy in s2, the big killer.

Little Chino, Roger Hicks, and Santos Jimenez; you don't even need Lila to be scum to create a viable scum team though she's certainly a viable choice as well. This actually would be consistent with Dexter Season 1 Mafia and as a scum team it better fits the town win con of "You win when the streets of Miami are safe" since Dexter is working towards that same goal.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I will be on vacation with likely no access from this Sunday through Saturday the 18th.

~Noted.

That is a more obvious route. Just saying I think my idea is cooler.

Well wouldn’t it totally be super interesting if Astor and Cody were scum? Sorry to ruin your pointless flights of fancy with a heavy spoonful of truth.

~~

The case why Farside should be lynched in the meanwhile…

A) I’m super obvious town and I think she’s scum. You can always do a lot worse than following the lead of a town player.
B) I’m not willing to excuse the “I always tunnel” excuse for her behavior on D1. She clearly wants tans lynched but there’s hardly any outside appeals to make it happen and no significant defense of other wagons to make her wagon more viable. It’s as if she’s content to sit back and let someone else be lynched while having something to point at and claim she was doing something.
C) Her pushing of Kise is just bizarre and reeks of lazy; she’s suggesting a lynch of a completely unprompted survivor claim again in a game with almost a guarantee of a vig/SK.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Back; haven't looked at content yet. Will try to get a post with content up sometime tonight, but it might be tomorrow morning depending how long the ole post-vacation chores take.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

A) Reeeaallly? Your case on Budja was crap and your floating by saying nothing in the game. How is that obv town?
B) What? I want someone I believe is scum lynched, how is that lazy? I stated my thoughts on Budja and disagreed with the reasoning for his lynch. Hell I didn't even see the case and you called me scum with him.
Your scum reads are what now? You have no other suspects you named besides me or talked about so........

If my case on Budja was so crap why weren’t you more passionate in standing against it. You took one look at it and went “I disagree” and that was it. It’s easy to use hindsight to evaluate but when the cards were on the table you basically sat out the hand. It’s easy and lazy to just give a list of reads to agree and disagree; it shows actual conviction in your reads to do something with them. You’ve been distinctly in the latter category. And I have other reads, but I don’t post things just to post them usually.

C) Why is it bizarre? He hammered a player without waiting for a claim. You think players should ignore that? Why?
Is a claim of a survivor all it takes? Do you believe every claim that players claim?
And final hello welcome to day number fucking 2 where only 1 person died, where is the SK/Vig then if it's "guaranteed".

I happen to believe unprompted survivor claims in games that are likely to have a vig or SK, yes. Call it a failing of mine to believe a claim that doesn’t really make much sense from scum perspective.

~~

Tans (and later Sotty) are spot on with his note that Hinduragi is perpetually in the background; I doubt anyone could note an opinion of his that didn’t involve themselves. Here's a theory I'm totally making up on the spot; if you think of a player and can't come up with an opinion they've held of another player besides yourself they're probably scum.

sotty and DDD , do you think Amrun is likely scum? scale of 1 to 10. same scale for LMP.

Amrun is town lean (pi); LMP is a 5.

~~

Sotty knows my meta as well as anyone who isn’t VPB; and to my eye everything she’s said about it is correct.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I was busy looking at Tans. Yes All I stated was I don't see the case and you called me scum with Budja, so I'm scum now with who because>>>>????

And you kept looking and looking and looking and yet despite the fact that it was clear you weren't getting his lynch you never committed to defending Budja to make your Tans-wagon viable or doing anything to actually persuade anyone. You put up the window dressing of scumhunting and then neglected to do the little things you actually have to do to get your target lynched.

As for lazy, you have no room to talk. You used a reason that was invalid and when I pointed it out you backtracked and called it based on how he made his statement.
BS is BS.

Ignoring the fact that my reason is valid and your argument rests upon the rationale that the implicit reasons for a vote aren't reasons we can evaluate; why didn't you argue this when it mattered? Instead you're using hindsight to take shots at me. And look, I started my own wagon and got my target lynched; if I can do that while being lazy I'm pretty damn good at being lazy.

Also how nice of you to never make a statement about other players. It must make it easier for you to use that excuse every day as scum.

Sorry that I don't feel the urge to talk about which mediocre town read of mine is a little less town than the other. I have this tendency to try and use my words effectively and thus I don't spend time on things like that unless otherwise prompted.

I've seen scum claim miller. I wouldn't say the survivor claim was unprompted, but I have to double check the vote count at the time.

As Amrun pointed out you might want to actually know the facts when you're trying to make an argument like this.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Are you defending your town read right now?
*cough* hypocrite *cough*

If sotty or sociopath were actually what I considered at risk then I’d defend them, yes. Since I don’t think they’re actually in any sort of trouble there’s no need to defend them. Budja needed you and you let him and us down.

I'm sorry are you saying in mafia you never missed something and saw something in hindsight after the fact? Are you really arguing that as a case?

As for why I didn't I already stated focas on Tans' in case you missed that I will just repeat it and it's pretty evident in day 1 if, you know you actual read the game.

I’m saying that you didn’t miss anything; you claimed on D1 to disagree with the case that means you took a look and evaluated it and disagreed. The best case scenario is negligence brought on by your own admitted tunneling; the worst case is that you’re simply trying to tar my reputation now with it because I’m on your back. Neither is good.

You were not around and it took me two times to ask and for you to ignore my question till day 2.
I would like to ask for someone who wishes to call me out for not responding earlier about your weak vote......how come it took you 2 times for you to answer the question?

I missed it, or I didn’t think it was interesting, or I had already answered basically the same question to Budja in 151 and didn’t care to answer it again. Mix and match at your pleasure.

~~

Farside’s attempt at refutation of my partial explanation for the Budja wagon fails because she again fails to see the implicit reasoning for Budja’s vote which is pretty obvious given both the context of the vote (Budja votes Socio, tans whines, Budja changes his vote to tans with no listed reasons) which she excludes in her single quote and is pretty obvious as well given one of the later posts she chooses to quote.

Also her attempt to meta me on three unlisted games given Sotty (half-dozen plus games played together) and VPB (are we up to 15 games played together; I think it’s close) are in the game is hilarious.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I asked about what was Budja's weak case on Tans was because before all budja stated was:

post 27
unvote, vote tanstalas

post 43

Sometimes no words are more effective as you just proved.
I see an undercurrent of tension in your words. Too much small talk.
Also FYI, I am not online all the time too.

This is textbook, "lol, pressure" justification aka pressure for pressure's sake and yes, I find it scummy. You apparently can't see it, but I'd suggest that you're the only one seeing as no one else seems to really be backing your opinion on the matter.

~~

Now lets move onto some hypocrisy

If sotty or sociopath were actually what I considered at risk then I’d defend them

There was a time that SP was at 4 vote:

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p3093925

During this time DDD never responded about SP or the votes on him in the least.

My statement was based on my current town reads on them and doesn't necessarily extend into the past (though in Sotty's case it does); I didn't have a town read on Socio at that time and thus didn't step up; I do now and thus would. You really are desperate aren't you?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

2nd: now that you have made your statement about SP and your reasoning. Did you see a post day 1 where I called Budja town?
Go look I dare you.

Yes, how silly of me to think that you'd do something like defend a player who you completely didn't see/disagreed with the case on AND you had an alternate target you spent the entire day tunneled on. Why do the things you need to do to get the lynch you want when it's just easier to keep pointing and then complain after the fact when everyone didn't just fall in line behind you.

I've also got to say I keep reading #691 as scum angry that they can't get the town to turn on each other.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Bahahahahaha I'm sorry you don't see Sotty blinders on based on null meta on you. I found her point weak on you. It was mostly null and deserved to be questioning. When she is stubborn about null meta I have to point out how much a dumass she is being.
Don't worry you pretty head there DDD. I will get to my big post by.........hopefully tomorrow.

If this is directed at me I have no blinders in regards to Sotty; she's cleaned my clock before as scum and she's the player I'd worry most about being scum in this game. However, in the last two games where she was scum (one was in her sottyrulez hydra) I got a gut scum read on her and I'm simply not getting that here.

@DDD, Hinduragui and Sotty - What are your feelings on KKN?

Undercontributor who when he does contributes provides mostly bland content. Probably my third choice after farside and hindu.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Bahahahahaha I'm sorry you don't see Sotty blinders on based on null meta on you. I found her point weak on you. It was mostly null and deserved to be questioning. When she is stubborn about null meta I have to point out how much a dumass she is being.
Don't worry you pretty head there DDD. I will get to my big post by.........hopefully tomorrow.

If this is directed at me I have no blinders in regards to Sotty; she's cleaned my clock before as scum and she's the player I'd worry most about being scum in this game. However, in the last two games where she was scum (one was in her sottyrulez hydra) I got a gut scum read on her and I'm simply not getting that here.

I'm talking about sotty having blinders on. You on the other hand have turned lazy since our last game. Are you so worried that you need to fit in your meta as scum and town that you don't try to scum hunt or do anything that you used to do? Do you just follow the player you find most town and hope their right?

Have we played a game together other than Quiz Show Mafia because that was formatted so differently as to basically be unusable in terms of meta (and of course that even ignores the sample size issues)?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I don't think voting common denominators is necessarily the best way to find scum. KKN is playing like a dead fish so far, so I think he probably needs a pointy stick more than a noose at this point. I'd really prefer one of my top two picks or possibly hinduragi.

Even if we get Amrun to swing over to vote farside who the other three of us would like to lynch we still need two more votes to actually achieve that goal and while we might get them near deadline I'd rather actually get the wagon put together instead of it happening by default when no one else can actually get anything done either. So where are those two other votes coming from?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Have we played a game together other than Quiz Show Mafia because that was formatted so differently as to basically be unusable in terms of meta (and of course that even ignores the sample size issues)?

And you were damn good at reading players that game. The format was different but you made points (yes I was scum) but even I could say and most did that it was from a town point of view. This game no. Also as I just said to VBP I don't have time to check mounds of meta and recalling a game from my past is my best with limited time.
Mostly I have to breeze read looking at your recent meta, which I deemed lazy.

I guess I don't understand your point; do you really think I raise good point as town and then completely fail to do the same as scum? As Amrun pointed out like everyone I have my good games and my bad. You claim to have metaed my recent games and found me lazy which I assume is consistent with this game as well. And I'm sure I've been irritating to you when I haven't answered your questions but as I already noted there's a multitude of reasons why I don't always answer questions the first time, or the second, or the third. The point is that you haven't been arguing I'm irritating which I'm sure I am, but that I'm scum but basically as far as I can tell that scum read boils down to the fact that I annoy you.

~~

Sotty and DDD need to get on board with the voting business, here - as well as others.

I think I've made it clear my order of preference is farside, Hindu and KKN in that order. And thus your Blackberry/tans push doesn't really do much of anything for me.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

ok everyone vote for either farside or blackberry now. we need a claim. people on wagons going nowhere are being useless if they are town.

Just wondering why you include farside but not yourself or Socio who have wagons just as big?

Anyhow..

Vote:Farside

Because no one besides the people on the VPB/Socio wagons have expressed any interest in lynching VPB/Socio which is why they're completely unproductive.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

DDD

- Post 148 - I want to know what you meant by "wait for him to do something scummy"?

It's pretty obvious given context in my #108 I noted I had a scum read but it was almost entirely gut and I wanted to have more than that to back my vote/case but by #148 I felt that I couldn't just sit around and wait for Budja to do something overtly scummy and instead put together the ideas I had and presented them with a vote.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

But I do want to hear what they say about it in this situation.

It feels different to me in that Blackberry seems to have a specific complaint related to his role usage as opposed to the broader "my predecesser was super scummy" complaints that I love to lynch. Since it's a borrowed tell and I haven't discussed it with Amished as much as VPB has I don't know if Amised would include it within his tell or not but to me it feels significantly different or at least different enough that it's not an instant death sentence.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I just basically have the opposite feeling VPB; I don't have a meta reason to excuse farside and my meta with LMP says average player and thus your "I expect better" point doesn't ring true to me. Basically of all your points the only one that really tugs at my heatstrings is the sheeping of the Amrun wagon and the attempt to inflate it beyond its actual strength and that's not enough to inspire me to vote for him.

Also in recent notes, from a completely personal experience I'm a sucker for soft claims as something I've done on occasion as town but never done as scum so that's working in BB's favor.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Goddammit. My router went out. I reread from my phone while I was gone but couldn't post anything because it would've been too big and I can't organize my thoughts from there. I'll have some kind of catchup post up tonight.

Too much delaying, I have done this as well when I have been scum, lurking close to deadlines and trying to fly under the radar. It is obvious that you are ignoring this thread as you are very active elsewhere on the site.

Unvote
Vote: Hindu

That's L-1

Well, if you are actually isoing his account, you'll see there is a large gap with no posting from June 23-27, so I do believe his router went out. That being said, I agree with you that he was posting up a storm in Defcon Mafia and can't manage nary a single content post here for us. What's the deal, Hind?

Also, I'm calling for a claim from Hind as well.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Why would that be?

Because your piss poor behavior has possibly run off a player we actually like playing with and because there's a solid possibility that you're scum.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I'm Esmee Pascal, the replacement Lieutenant. I am very occupied with my personal life so I have very little time to focus on my police work, thus I am only a 2-shot tracker. Why 2? Trust me, I don't get it either. On Night 1, I tracked Socio and saw him visit Locke Lamora.

Socio?

On a quick review Hind's play seems consistent with his claim so either he is a tracker or has just his claim up very well.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I'm Esmee Pascal, the replacement Lieutenant. I am very occupied with my personal life so I have very little time to focus on my police work, thus I am only a 2-shot tracker. Why 2? Trust me, I don't get it either. On Night 1, I tracked Socio and saw him visit Locke Lamora.

Socio?

Yes, Sociopath. The guy I suspected at the end of D1. I've been voting him all of today too.

Yes, I got that; I was asking him for comment on the issue.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Thought about it some more on the drive home from work; still think Hindu is more likely scum than Sociopath.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Hinduragi

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Today we should lynch Blackberry or Kid Know Knothing.

Vote:Blackberry

Whoa, why did you suddenly switch from Socio who you were voting yesterday?

he said he has no abilities, meaning he's vt. Also, blackberry speaks the truth about lynching socio benefits here.

And the above is strange as well. Please explain reasoning,

as I am apparently slow.

You're very slow but don't worry it appears farside wants to join you on the short bus so at least you'll have company. I mean your first response is complete nonsense because it's obvious that the Socio read was conditional on the Hindu claim which was proven false when he flipped scum. I won't put words in VPB's mouth in regards to the second point but it seems like something you could find by just reading the thread.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

No really, so far everyone who has shown up today other than me and VPB is playing like a derp-a-doo. Why would VPB-scum kill Amrun? Especially when Amrun's play yesterday unconditionally accepted VPB as town, something even I wasn't comfortable doing, and then she was part of our town bloc. I know it's "WIFOM" but 99 times out of 100 if you're scum you keep that person alive and use them instead of killing them because they're so much more useful to you alive. Dead Amrun means VPB town and VPB town means I'm trusting his instincts.

VOTE: Blackberry

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

C) DDD - If VP wouldn't kill Amrun, do you think I would kill Amrun as scum considering she was one of my top 3 suspects?

Yes.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

1) I can't wait till AGM gets his notes so we can get the town bloc back running up in the bitch.

2) Socio, it is minorly possible because it was prevent the third party that would benefit them in LYLO from turning into town. However, that assumes both a roleblocking ability and a lack of a better use of a roleblock and that seems tough to believe.

3) I like the parts where people keep calling VPB scum despite the fact that my pretty damn obvious argument stands untouched.

4) Grassface's utter obliviousness to why him apologizing for farside is completely pointless is actually pretty hilarious in a "laughing at the enfeebled" sort of way.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Somebody should really tell Grassface that when he argues points that are in contrast to what his other head thinks it just make the spot look incoherent and gets the both of them not treated as credible.

Did tans really think #1028 would work?

Not sure why we aren't still holding BB's feet to the fire given he's nothing to deserve the reprieve but I'm confident enough in my town reads that I'm basically playing this as PoE.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: tanstalas

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I'm still open to lynching BB, DDD. I think now that the AGM-DDD-VPB townie alliance of win is solidified, we can just have our own convos here in thread and lynch where we think is necessary. You still think BB is the better lynch over tans?

I'm very shrug on the matter of one over the other, I just don't like the idea of putting someone in the crosshairs and then letting them slip away without a significant change in the status quo.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@DDD - I softclaimed my rolename, and looking back at my ISO you can probably tell who I am, even before the softclaim. If you really think that I would be scum with that rolename.. lol

Yes, I realized that, thank you, after looking at your age and seeing you are 32, hence the question. What I was wondering was why you'd possibly think that would work given that Dexter S1 had safe claims for the scum and the one caught scum in this game made a claim that went un-countered making it reasonable to again assume scum were provided with safe claims.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

So VPB with no prior biases, do you think he's legitimately as clueless as he seems or is he attempting a con.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

This page makes me giggle like a Japanese school girl.

It seems like VP Baltar thinks your points about me are extremely well thought out and persuasive, Blackberry.

How am I doing with the possible veiled sarcasm, VPB?

You know I'm not much one for the argument of "scum flailing" but Tans basically seemed to give up on all semblance of rationality on this page in favor of making a big splashy mess.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Mod: Can you please spoiler text out Tans's post on the last page? I'm about to watch Season 2 and I really don't want it ruined.

Fortunately, I was reading on phone and could look away fast enough before my eyes absorbed the content.

Mod please don't

Don't join a Dexter Season 2 game if you don't want people to talk about season two man.

Tell me, Grassface, because farside was an unpleasant person to play with earlier do you feel compelled to do the same to keep up appearances. Because I must say you're doing a fantastic job of it if you do.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I want here to hear what Blackberry has to say and then I want tanstalas dead because absolutely nothing productive is coming of the back and forth right now.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Blackberry's points about Socio and Kise both require a number of assumptions that I either believe to be unreasonable or plain incorrect.

KKN has basically gone radio silent in my opinion and I'm almost feeling his lynch more than tans.

Blackberry, Grassface has already unvoted so there's no pressure there and even if he had unvoted there is absolutely no possibility of me getting lynched with the town bloc in charge more or less and so again no pressure. Basically I'm on cruise control; I want to get the town bloc guys together and work on who we're lynching today and put this thing away.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Le sigh, actually tans' point is pretty incoherent. He's basically stating that I set up Hindu up all day to possibly bus him and then hammered him but instead of carrying through with the bus I'd apparently setup perfectly I felt it would be a good idea to jump ship for a single post and ruin my credit for my role in it? Is that seriously more plausible than me being town and having a natural moment where I was unsure because I felt his claim matched his play until I reviewed the situation further and hammered when I realized the truth of the matter. If anything that pause shows that I'm town and organically evaluating the game as it goes along instead of sitting on a stance that's convenient as scum are more prone to do.

It's pretty damn sad that there is at least a town player, given there appear to be at least three people milling around the outside of my wagon at any one time, who apparently is blind to the obvious and who think that they can read me better than VP Baltar (or Sotty and/or AGM for that matter) can.

~~~

Assumptions of BB's that I disagree(d) with:
1) That Socio-Rita would have to have an "Other" power
2) That Kise is telling the truth about his ability due to the wording
3) That scum only have fake name claims and not full role claims (Vi is a reviewer on the game and I believe the role PMs take a fair amount of structure from Vi's PMs and Vi will often provide full fake claims to scum or even craft a scum player a hypothetical PM of their choosing)

~~~

VPB, I really think KKN is the best option for today; what say you on the matter?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

We could probably try to lynch closer to Juls' V/LA just so the game doesn't have to be in night forever, but that's just a suggestion.

Meh. If we get this lynch through today we should probably be able to have a full night phase before her V/LA hits.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: KKN

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

To be ironic his role and flavor does fit the character. Also, this is my vote not moving.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

We're not lynching Kise today. Town bloc has my back on the matter.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

The sad thing in the Tans case is that I already countered his bad "DDD was bussing yesterday" argument with a clear statement of fact and he's seen me try to set up a town alliance in the newbie game we've played before. As far as I can tell those are big objections to my play and they've already been explained away and yet apparently because I annoy him and because I haven't been subtle about my attempt to control the game he's going to throw a hissy fit. Whatever.

Doesn't Socio-scum also implicate Kise? Because Kise claimed that both Rita and Dexter were pro-town roles and if Socio flips scum then that'd be just another thing Kise was lying about and this one would be even more egregious than his other lies.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I wasn't pointing that out as a reason we shouldn't lynch Socio, in fact that might be a benefit, VPB just noting that fact. While I still have objections to KKN's claim it makes more sense to let scum kill him it it's a legitimate claim or make him prove it with results tonight given he can't just track "null reads" tonight and expect us to believe that fact. I'll back a Tans or Socio lynch.

UNVOTE:

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Also don't like people claiming trackers and DDD's reaction to them claiming said role "Oh yeah that fits with how he's played" or "Yeah that fits with the name/character"

To be ironic

his role and flavor does fit the character. Also, this is my vote not moving.

You're not even trying any more are you?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

VPB, go look at the games I linked where he hammered his scum buddies.

Whatever, I don't care anymore. I have made my cases, you think I am scum, just lynch me.

This isn't an argument that I'm scum; it's a counter to an argument that I'm town, it's also a counter to an argument no one is making.

Also the idea that VPB, AGM and I aren't watching each other is rather insulting.

~~~

VPB, since you never know what might happen you find anything curious before we lynch tans and head to night?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

K, neither of them are scum. 99% confident on VPB, 90% confident on AGM, Fargrass is also highly likely town; your partner (or the other two scum) rests in the remaining four players.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

K, neither of them are scum. 99% confident on VPB, 90% confident on AGM, Fargrass is also highly likely town; your partner (or the other two scum) rests in the remaining four players.

Give me fucking names

Their names are KKN, BB, Kise, and Socio. If you were paying attention you'd know that.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I was just waiting for a final check in from VPB; I'm good throwing down my vote now.

VOTE: tanstalas

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I guess a mass claim in order. I'm just confused and maybe someone who was in the last Dexter game saw it before, but why is Kise in grey with no alignment flip?

I assume based on the fact he lied about his name that he is scum....


fars

In the last game and so far in this green designates town flips; red designates scum flips. In S1 a blue flip represented the Serial Killer; I'd say that a gray flip probably represents third party of some sort; Kise actually being a survivor but without the fun claimed abilities to become town-aligned wouldn't surprise me.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Claim order is then:
AGM
Fargrass
BB
DDD/VPB

With Socio confirming his claim the next time he shows up.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I have a single reason I need you to claim before BB, DDD. No offense. It was an error on my part and I need to know.

I'll expect an explanation but fine.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

DDD, how many scum do you think are left?

It's gotta be two don't you think?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I kind of assume that. KKN flipping town worries me. Kise possibly being a plain old survivor worries me as well.

Well if that's the case do we want to massclaim if we're going to no lynch given likely MYLO or are we dedicated to playing this today after a mass claim?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Fargrass also should make it clear whether they have an actual ability or that's just flavor. And Matsuka was the science lead on the BHB case and did make the break on the marina rocks.

~~

Claim: Dexter Morgan

Short paraphrase flavor: Everyone sees me as their brother, friend, or the blood spatter guy and can't see the monster inside. I'm on the brink of being discovered with Rita finding out about my "addiction", my sister investigating me, and Doakes tailing me. How is it in a room of cops that Doakes is the only one that senses the monster?

I have two abilities beyond the standard voting one. Dark Defender which is a delayed vig kill, the first night I submit a target but all I do that night is set up my kill room; the next night I actually go through with the kill but I can abort it any time before the kill goes through. The fact that I target but not actually target someone nature of the first night of my ability is why I hammered the first tracker claim and was extremely skeptical of KKN's as well. I targeted LL the first night thinking he was pulling a WWF Royal Rumble lurk job. The second night I set up a kill room on Kise and last night I killed him.

My other ability is a passive one, Bay Harbor Butcher, where if my kill goes through I start investigating as guilty starting the night my kill goes through. So anyone investigating me last night or in the future would get a guilty on me while nights one and two they would've got an innocent.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I thought they only get a guilty on you if you kill a non-mafia?

That's not what my role PM says and I certainly never said that.

I'm not claiming.

*waits for reactions*

I might let this go depending on VPB but only on his firm say so.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I have to say I have a niggling of worry about your because your role is confirmed but I've been kicking around the idea of a 2-man mafia-survivor-delayed SK setup in my head. It's probably paranoia, but I'm having trouble wrapping all of this town power around my head.

Beyond the fact that you're just being annoyingly paranoid it's completely irrational to put a survivor in a game with multiple anti-town factions because it could turn LYLO into a random game of chance based on who the survivor decides to vote for. And look, now your talking out loud is getting BB to make even stupider mouth sounds and provide cover for him to not claim. Chief, I pretty much trust you in this game but like you I'm having trouble rationalizing all the alleged town power in the game and I'd like to have the full facts to judge things.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

That said I have a few questions for DDD. Why would you kill LL over Kise Night 1?
Why would you allow the kill to go through night 3 when Kise was supposedly going to meet up with Rita that night?

Because killing scum is much more important than killing a survivor; my basic rule was as soon as we had a scum flip I'd set up a kill on Kise but until then it was more important to get that first scum flip.

Because Kise was obviously lying about twelve different things; he already claimed to not try to link with Rita the previous night, why would I believe that he would this night. I also began to grow increasingly weary that he was actually a traitor and not a survivor.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@DDD: Better question. Why didn't you target me N1 if you thought I was scum all of day 1?
Also I want a link to that game your referring to with LL.

Fars

I didn't think you were scum all of D1; you and LL were second behind Budja but your place was more contingent on Budja being scum. When Budja flipped town that moved LL past you. When LL died N1 that left you all alone on the scum leaderboard which is why I became so focused on you. Game name was already mentioned and the link is in my wiki.

Also, like VPB mentioned I've claimed an unclaimed kill. That means I essentially cannot be mafia, I am town but you could be dumb and make the argument that I'm a SK. However, with the distinct possibility that there are two scum even if you are convinced without a shadow of a doubt that I am a SK I am not the lynch today because that would be game losing for the town. Feel free to pester me to try to get that read if you must, but we have to lynch mafia today so that really should be our focus.

And what's confusing about Kise's color; he was neither town, nor scum, which means he must be third party because he was neither town, nor scum.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

On a side note:

@DDD

What is your flavor/storyline flavor? More specifically, what does it say concerning Rita/Lila, just curious.

Like I already said, it says that Rita has found out about my "addiction" but she obviously doesn't know the whole story. My flavor contains no mention of Lila.

@DDD/VP

Would it be possible to suggest your targets tonight? I have an idea that *could* help us cover more bases. I need to ask the mod a question real quick. VP, I would suggest you to target me so I can tell you my plan.

You can suggest all you like; my play at this point is pretty obvious; set up a kill on the scummiest player who isn't today or tomorrow's lynch.

To be completely honest, if I were to go on ROLE ABILITIES, I would see AGM as town ability and VP as a scum ability... but I'll let that pass for now (last game the SK got to send messages at night to Dexter... just food for thought ).

And you were specifically called to the Interrogation Room; there is no scum flavor that matches that in this season unless the mod has gone wildly deviant and included non-murderers as scum.

Also, I think it is possible that Kise was in fact a Traitor, considering A: I agree there seems to be a lot of power roles, and B: a traitor wouldn't be in RED as that insinuates mafia, whereas mafia know other mafia C: Juls wouldn't clarify my simple Traitor question (Hypothetically, if there was a traitor, would he come up red or non-red?)... I'm also guessing mafia have some sort of manipulating/redirecting role like they did last time. Also, considering the Doakes-Tracker, I'm guessing he probably had disadvantages to his role that he didn't reveal (as it is angry doakes, who actually does kill someone in S2 now that I remember it, which means Dex should have killed him ).

As VPB already pointed out, it makes little sense for a scum team not to have tried to claim Kise as their own if that was an option to them.

Also, another idea I had, is what if to make up for all the power roles, mafia have an "extra kill" they can use on any night... this means DDD could in fact be mafia and killed Kise that night... just an IDEA I had, though I am leaning against it. Although killing Kise would be dumb, it clears DDD.

Yes, scum have an extra kill and within a half-hour or so of being taken into interrogation night two, I decided we'd wait to use that kill on night three and we'd use it to kill the survivor/traitor. Do you think before you post or do you always just blurt out the random things that come to mind?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

DDD - do you not think it's odd that Rita mentions you cheating on her and breaking up, yet your storyline only discusses your storyline of Episode 1 of the season? Do you not think it's odd Socio is scumming it up, point-blank?

I'll ignore the nonsense and won't bother to bait you further and cut this down to the only point that's worth talking about. I find nothing odd with that because I have no reason to suspect that likely mod-supplied fake claims are structurally different that the real ones and attempts to find differences on those grounds is likely futile. And since I think Socio is scum and also everyone can basically tell he's going to be the lynch today that his behavior is basically exactly what I would expect.

Preview edit: lulz to both the last two posts.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Frankly this scares me to death but Far/AGM had their chance to arrange a fairly quick hammer which means they're almost certainly not scum together. I still trust in VPB's alignment if not his judgement which means this is only a mistake if BB is scum with either Far or AGM and while I've entertained such possibilities that would require believing that Socio is somehow town and that VPB is so egregiously misreading BB and that combination of things is so slim I've got to disregard the niggling voice in the back of my head. Despite the protests to the contrary I see no reason to artificially stall the day because I simply don't see anything else coming from it.

VOTE: Sociopath

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

FTR, I was pretty convinced AGM was scum, but I needed him to kill BB last night. He didn't fall for my gambit unfortunately.

p.edit - scum team won by role mechanics, not good play...just ftr

True story, scum did what they needed to do to win and kudos to them for that but I think looking at it as a whole while season 1 was undoubtably town-sided, I think this season was undoubtably scum-sided.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Thanks for modding, Juls. I had a lot of fun this game even though there was some drama involved. The only modding complaint I have is that BB's role seems a bit bastardish with the hidden "lynch takes away the protect thing." Town would have of course won had we known that. I'm generally opposed to hidden mechanics...but then again the town had plenty of power and LMP never should have cast that protect on N1 anyhow.

GG all. We should have had it DDD.

It wasn't so much that as much as it was a brutally swingy role and if used improperly (like it was) it had the chance to ruin the town and that's what it did in the end. My other problem is that 4/9 is just so tough anyways, I've only seen one other 4/9 game happen and it was also a scum win so I'd be curious to see how much town power is needed to balance that.

Hind, your claim was just completely irrelevant to me and my opinion of Socio so I'd be no help in describing what was good or bad about it.

/Pre-in to season three

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I'm curious how DDD knew our actual characters' names.

Becuase the town win condition was "You win when the streets of Miami are safe" and I knew Dexter was town-aligned. That meant almost certainly that scum had to be Dexter's victims from Season 2 since the streets are perfectly safe with all the town players in it and since there were only three of those (and Lila) it was an easy and accurate assumption; it was also consitent with Dexter Season 1 Mafia.