Starcraft Mafia Mini 1210 (Over)

[killerjester]

Hi! I'm actually not going to post until I sleep some, but thought I'd /confirm anyway.

[killerjester]

RQS

1. Do you play Starcraft/Starcraft II?
YES

2. What's your favorite race in game?
BROtoss

3. If you were a character, which would you be? (This has 100% nothing to do with your role, don't name claim)
The Marine, if for no other reason than the quote, "You want a piece of me, boy?"

4. Ready for Heart of the Swarm?
Locked and loaded

5. How much experience do you have playing Mafia?
I've uhh.. played some SC2 custom maps of Mafia actually I've also played some marathon games and I'm in 3 other games on-site now.

6. Anything else you want to say?
GLHF, let's go.

VOTE: Vifam

He gave me the scummiest vibe. He was a little quick to jump on the town v town call, and never really gave any evidence towards his own behalf. In fact, he hasn't given us much basis for anything he's done. I also don't like his comments on the Morthas wagon, which seemed by and large an RVS kind of thing.

gbevil gave me scummy vibes of a different sense on my first read through. But Vifam is the better wagon here so I'll just leave with an IGMEOY to see if gbevil repeats anything I've seen him do so far.

[killerjester]

^ Your*. Sorry lol, if you're allowed to be a grammar nazi I'm allowed to use light humor

Wanna link to the meta lies, please?

[killerjester]

Oh, I've see what you've done there. I was a bit confused because you voted gbevil a bit after you called BS on rewq's meta. But then I re-read and it made more sense. Very well, carry on.

Let's hear from rewq this time instead of him ignoring Psyche.

[killerjester]

He said in #141 that the investigation was inconclusive. There was lack on evidence to support rewq's claim of...

rewq's meta claim

Someone who is unconfirmed would not typicaly be accussed of lurking. Just checking to see if he was there, was not thinking, once the futility was pointed out i unvoted. Look at my previous games. My meta is that i tend to switch votes often and never really be sure about it. Games are in my wiki.

Having taken a class or two in Stats, I know the whole ordeal of creating a null hypothesis and finding evidence to disprove the null. So we can't really call BS on the rewq's meta, just that we don't find evidence that supports his claim. In the games I read, rewq wasn't very switchy about his votes.

[killerjester]

It's still pretty weak for a vote, just saying. The cases on Vifam and gbevil are much stronger.

[killerjester]

Do me a favor and summarize them for me. I'll look it up later myself.

> Vifam
He gave me the scummiest vibe. He was a little quick to jump on the town v town call, and never really gave any evidence towards his own behalf. In fact, he hasn't given us much basis for anything he's done. I also don't like his comments on the Morthas wagon, which seemed by and large an RVS kind of thing.

> gbevil
It was simply some small scum-vibes I got from the way he defended himself. I'm keeping the specific points to myself to see if he'll repeat them, but you can go read what he's said. It's all there.

[killerjester]

@Mod, I don't think rewq still has his vote on my slot. I

think

it's on HelloNewman, but I'm not certain.

@rewq, why is your vote on HelloNewman again? At most, the three wagons are you, Vifam, and gbevil. I'd like your thoughts on any of those.

[killerjester]

Oh, right then. I want to see rewq do something not-retarded with his vote now. Failing that, I'd be more than comfortable with lynching him.

[killerjester]

You will not state your case on me.

An OMGUS vote is still an OMGUS vote. Nothing you've done this game struck me as terribly pro-town, and you've still yet to lay down a vote on one of the wagons.

VOTE: rewq455

[killerjester]

What is he supposesdly supposed to do? When he is being voted without a decent reasoning, what should be his course of action? HellooooooNewman's holding out and you're just letting him on while he pushes a wagon he can't even justify. That's ridiculous.

I found his justification decent. It was, essentially, rewq was being an all-around VI tossing his vote around. The one on Morthas was excusable if you believe it was still in RVS, but there really wasn't a point for putting a second vote on Acronach. And then there was the whole...

Vote Rewq455

For trying to......well, I dunno WHAT the fuck he is trying to do. It sure ain't pro town though.

So you dont know what i'm doing but its not helping the town... Give me an example and maybe i can help you out. Also, what are you doing at all?

"I'm TOTALLY doing something! I don't know what you're talking about. Besides, what are YOU doing?"

Why do the accumulation of your posts all sound like "I'm rubber, you're glue, whatever you say to me comes back to you"?

Why don't you ISO me and read my posts? I have only defended myself in one post, so that is the only one which you can describe as an "I'm rubber, you're glue, whatever you say to me comes back to you" response. Last time I checked, 1/10 is not enough to make a generalization like that.
I decided to ISO you. Post 1 is you answering the questions. Posts 2-4 are you justifying lurking. Post 5 is you giving a relatively unjustified vote on me. Post 6 is you avoiding justifying your vote on me. Avoiding justification is in no case pro-town. Anyone else agree?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: HellloooNewman

Again, "I have no idea what you're talking about! Besides, you're MUCH scummier than I am! >proceed to vote"

Tu quoque is not a legitimate defense. Beyond that, rewq is getting progressively more frustrated the more he sees it not working. I'm voting rewq because he's harboring his vote from the other wagons and trying to throw his suspicions back on Newman.

[killerjester]

^ It could just be a chance to out-guess the Mod through. There are three Starcraft races; Protoss, Terran, and Zerg. Zerg are related to the infestation and destruction of planets while the Protoss are known for "purifying" those planets (by nuking them) to get rid of the Zerg. As you can see, Zerg and Protoss might be race-flavors for scum and town, respectively. Terran might be flavor for 3rd party. In fact, now that kiwi and rewq have race-claimed Protoss, I feel comfortable in this theory to force a mass name claim.

I'm Selendis, Protoss executor. It may be a longshot, but I find Newman suspicious for not being Protoss. Rewq and kiwi are cleared in my mind if Newman flips scum.

VOTE: HelloNewman

[killerjester]

^ It could just be a chance to out-guess the Mod through

flavor

. There are three Starcraft races; Protoss, Terran, and Zerg. Zerg are related to the infestation and destruction of planets while the Protoss are known for "purifying" those planets (by nuking them) to get rid of the Zerg. As you can see, Zerg and Protoss might be race-flavors for scum and town, respectively. Terran might be flavor for 3rd party. In fact, now that kiwi and rewq have race-claimed Protoss, I feel comfortable in this theory to force a mass name claim.

I'm Selendis, Protoss executor. It may be a longshot, but I find Newman suspicious for not being Protoss. Rewq and kiwi are cleared in my mind if Newman flips scum.

VOTE: HelloNewman

Bolded my edit.

[killerjester]

Oh, alright.

UNVOTE:

I'm completely confident now that Protoss is the race for town. Let's wait for everyone to name-claim and with any luck our scum may show themselves Also don't take three posts like kiwi did to claim a name. I'm giving him strong benefit of the doubt because he mentioned he was Protoss before I posted my analysis, but I'd like everyone else to claim 1. Name and 2. Race in one post. If you're unsure of your race (I was only told Selendis was Town in my role PM, I knew from my experience she's a Protoss executor), look it up on the StarCraft wiki

[killerjester]

Voting somebody who claims to be able to confirm protoss roles? That makes me think you are lying about yours.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: kiwieagle

Actually, I got the same vibes kiwi got on Newman. There was some hard cognitive dissonance between these two posts.

Okay, zero flavor knowledge here.

How is one player being "protoss" make them believe that another player claims the same?

"Unnecessary" quotations around the word protoss, as if he's never ever heard the term before...

I am Artanis and I am town. I am told that I trust all Protoss', and if I target them at night, I will be unable to perform my action on them (due to trusting them). I will instead learn their name.

This is actually quite helpful now that 2 Protoss' have claimed. I can tell you if they are lying or not.

Unvote - Rewq

But the word itself is mentioned in his role PM. Beyond that, while I don't know if he's fake-claiming or not, I'm just saying an investigative role such as this isn't a bad fake-claim if he were scum. That is to say, he could easily fake it by confirming the names of any town, and quite possibly outting some scum to clear his own name. The only way he's going to prove his role in my mind is if he gives the flavor-name of a town BEFORE they do, and they [the town] confirms his investigation is correct.

And Vifam, I know which game you're talking about. My Protoss = town theory was just that, a theory. If you got a town role PM and a non-Protoss name, I'd like you to name claim still. It won't necessarily mean you're anti-town, just that my theory could be wrong. Afterall, the mod did say this..

Do NOT assume you can outsmart me.

I have a reputation of placing not so evil characters as Mafia type roles. Flavor should mean nothing!!!!!!!

[killerjester]

Because my PM gave my name (Artanis) and the fact that I was town. It did not say Artanis, Protoss, or Artanis Templar, or anything of the sort.

Wait...Yeah. I'm throwing my vote back up. In #209 he explicitly mentioned "Protoss" was in his role ability. And now he say it isn't.

VOTE: HelloNewman

[killerjester]

Failure to explain properly on your part doesn't constitute my "misrepping". It sounded like you stated your PM didn't mention Protoss anywhere.

The way you explained it now makes more sense. As in my PM it stated I was Selendis (town) <-- just like that. And your role makes more sense too when the Protoss name thing is a conditional modifier instead of the entire power.

UNVOTE:

[killerjester]

And your role makes more sense too when the Protoss name thing is a conditional modifier instead of the entire power.

EBWOP: Makes more sense.. with the theory that race is not an indicator of alignment.

[killerjester]

I notice you keep your vote on me. Interesting.

In my opinion you were much more clear the second time you explained yourself.

[killerjester]

So did you.

Where did gbevil go?

[killerjester]

Funnily enough, you have just become the player I trust most in this game. Who woulda saw THAT one coming?

Dunno about gbevil.

What are your thoughts on Rewqscum?

Possible. A lot of my town beliefs on him were assuming that Protoss race is town race. I still don't like his play this game, it doesn't feel to come from a town-alignment. And now he's claimed VT with a From Beyond the Grave ability, essentially making him a better lynch candidate than anyone who isn't blatant scum.

I've already responded to all points in Psyche's case, so vote me if you find it convincing. I have nothing else to say. I have a feeling I'm getting lynched today anyway.

VOTE: gbevil

There was no way this post is pro-town. We need to get this wagon back on some rails.

[killerjester]

You guys wanted a full claim. :/

Rewq was asked for a full claim, no one else.

[killerjester]

Also, is your role name "Overload"? I know of the closely spelled Overlord unit, and in concept stages the Phoenix had an ability called Overload. But I want your character's name. And to hear from the other six people that havn't name claimed yet.

[killerjester]

Here is my full claim:

Name: Fenix (he is in the first game and brood wars which i havent played so anything i can tell you flavor-wise is from a wiki. He is protoss so cannot be the leader of the raiders.)

Ability: After death I can cast One vote at any point later in the game, and then I can also remove it. After I looked over the wiki I saw that after he dies he is made into a Dragoon so he can continue fighting. This is the only thing I've read about him that works with this power flavor-wise

Now why as scum would you claim with a Beyond the grave ability?

That's exactly how I saw it. At best, it's a scum gambit. An unlikely one, at that. I'd only advocate a rewq lynch failing all other scummy venues.

And what of your name-claim?

[killerjester]

Ah, nvm about that last bit. I got ninja'd

[killerjester]

*sitcom audience laughs*

[killerjester]

So uhh, prods right?

[killerjester]

Blatant backtracking


His explanation is real bad.

If he TRUST protoss THEN HOW ELSE IS THE PM GONNA MENTION IT?

You're joking right? I hope you're joking. If anyone else thinks this is a serious point please let me know.

Here are some highlights we've been missing, in favor of bickering over spelling and rewq's claim.

I've already responded to all points in Psyche's case, so vote me if you find it convincing. I have nothing else to say. I have a feeling I'm getting lynched today anyway.

Not a pro-town mindset.

*sigh* Well this game is pretty much stagnant in terms of discussion, so for the sake of drumming some up UNVOTE: VOTE: Morthas for being kind of a douche and also calling me a lurker for not having posted in 24 hours. Frankly, there hasn't been much to post on, as Newman said. Well now there is. I believe Morthas is at L-2. Discuss.

REALLY bad vote.

prod avoid. been busy, will post tomorrow.

Where is this guy?

[killerjester]

I was confident in my Protoss theory until it was disproved by Vifam.

I felt the Mod note could have just as easily been referring to the flavor

names

, instead of the flavor race. For instance, Raszagal is part of the Rouges Tribe, generally considered anti-Conclave in the Protoss storyline, but in this mafia variant she wouldn't necessarily be considered scum. I'm not changing my vote till we get something from gbevil or notice that he's being replaced.

[killerjester]

Uncalled for

[killerjester]

If his claim is true, and he is scum, would it be in our interests to lynch him? Could there be a scum beyond-the-grave-voter? Would scum-he lie about his ability in this way?

Is that a trick question? Lynching scum is always in our best interest.

[killerjester]

For the record, I don't expect Morthas to refute a straw man argument. No one should.

I can get on a kiwi wagon.

VOTE: kiwi

[killerjester]

1. Stels wasnt a wagon, more like RVS (I wouldnt call that reasoning, you voted him for saying answering those was useless. WHICH IS TRUE, WHY DID YOU WANT ME TO ANSWER THOSE QUESTION SO DESPERATELY?)
You did your own research on rewq? lol bullshit. I made a case on him, and you just say repeat what I say.
2.LOLOLOL YOU DID THE SAME THING
3. Tell me where you actually scumhunt. Just quote it.
oh and reading your ISO

What is there to say? 3 pages full of "answer the question!" "what question?" "you know what question, now answer!" "what fucking question you talking about?" "SCUMZ!!!".

I sufficiently think the start of this game is retarded, and I have lost IQ points for having read it.

Better?

Excusing yourself from posting?
OH HAI GAIZ I'M NOT GOIN TO PLAI, BAT I DN'T WNT RIPLAIC AUT ANIWHO.
No offense intended.

I failed to mention this but i sometimes lose enthusiasm for this game for a few days when there are some events happening during life. Sorry for my being away, i'll post as soon as i get some sleep and some free time.

Your first point takes his actions to the extreme. Just because you and Morthas had similair points on the rewq case doesn't mean it isn't possible he did he own research. Your second point is a blatant example of the fallacy Tu Quoque. You defend against your wagon hopping by explaining Morthas has done it too, which isn't really a defense for yourself at all. Your third point takes Morthas' AtE (while questionable in it's own way) to the extreme - that Morthas is absolutely doing no scumhunting because he's lost enthusiasm in the game.

You've set up a straw man so you can knock it down yourself.

The only thing I'm confident at the moment is kiwi and Morthas not being a scumteam. Either one of them is scum, or neither of them are. The whole argument is simply..too messy to be bussing.

[killerjester]

Morthas, are you keeping your vote on gbevil all throughout find his replacement? I do find him scummy, but I also think that's terribly unproductive. It's fair to say we aren't lynching him before a replacement is found.

I'd also like pressure on kiwi.

[killerjester]

Rest assured his replacement is awaiting my flak as well

[killerjester]

His #307 responds to your #300 and addresses it entirely. Your #309 is just a bad post.

[killerjester]

Also Morthas is still a male.

[killerjester]

All your trying to do right now killer is just discredit my post.

Which if Morthas flips scum...

Yeah, I suppose if Morthas flips scum you can all go yelling "chainsaw defense!!!"

I call it simply finding you scummy. I'm discrediting your post because it's a bad post.

I think I addressed why it isnt a bad post.

oh and
ISnt it funny how he now calls me scum for making a case a against him?

And you never really did this, because #320 just says, "No, I'm right. You're wrong. If you don't believe me then go reread the thread."

[killerjester]

Can someone tell me why we are still dicking around and not lynching Rewq?

Vote Rewq

I don't think he's scum.

Cause its kind of obvious.

Okay. Well we already tried the part where I do all the work for myself, read the entire thread, form my own opinion, and make my own educated decision. So maybe it's not as obvious as you think.

[killerjester]

Can you re-explain why I'm lord of the scum? But this time with better thought process. I had a hard time following and most of it felt circular.

[killerjester]

You're assuming I'm scum and then explaining how that proposition fits your central premise (ie: It's easy to see that scumKJ would want to do this bit here!)

1. Have you played a game with townKJ? I know in [REDACTED] I was the SK and that doesn't really fit on how you know the meta of my town play. I also think your speculation on how scum can gain from

name claiming

is pretty bold. I don't think I've even seen a game where the scum had the ability to kill and recruit more scum, that's just plain unbalanced.

2. My kiwi vote was heavily influenced by gbevil's replacing out. I don't see how that fits your distancing claim. And can you explain how your claim here fits my entire voting pattern, not just the one on kiwi?

3. I don't know how to respond to this. Please refer to the circular reasoning database. I claimed Selendis because

my rolename

is

Selendis

. I'm throwing your speculation here out the window.

[killerjester]

I haven't asked for a kiwi lynch, at best I asked for pressure votes.

And I haven't released many reads. No one since gbevil catches me as strikingly scummy.

[killerjester]

Mengsk is one of the main villians from the series. Given the mods earlier post however it is irrelevant. Also since several players have claimed non-protoss, i doubt the protoss = town theory. Note however how noone has claimed one of the zerg characters

Vifam has. The Overlord is a Zerg unit. He's also the only one who hasn't been given a character's name.

[killerjester]

Sorry guys, I'm V/LA until tomorrow. I took a spontaneous vacation to Cape Cod. You can definitely expect a small catchup when I get back.

[killerjester]

So far, I am rooting for Scotty-Gbevil, Kiwi, Scooby.

Kiwi lynch isn't a very good lynch. In fact, kiwi is a terrible lynch when compared to the other candidates. I'm also finding it scummy that you are calling scooby an "opportunistic scum" and using that theory as grounds for fencesitting on Vifam, as if scooby's attack suddenly make Vifam's play more pro-town.

FoS Morthas

VOTE: Vifam

Beyond a Vifam lynch, I suppose Scott Brosius and Morthas are my top two scumreads.

My rolename is confirmable by Newman's ability, should he choose to use it on me, and we should have at least one protective role to save our only claimed PR.

[killerjester]

This is an outstanding post.

Im rooting for morthas or vifam.

[killerjester]

You can't sell the idea of opportunistic scooby unless you assume town Vifam. That's my point. I have no reason to believe Vifam is town and therein no reason to believe scooby is unfairly pushing a mislynch.

If one post summed up my entire feelings on you it would be this post.

[killerjester]

Welcome!

[killerjester]

So...Vifam, right?

Yeah.

Vifam.

[killerjester]

Regarding his play, I do not really know the case. I think people perceived that his defenses of certain players was unnatural IIRC.

From my PoV, modtalk implies that only one character having a out-of-paradigm rolename is relatively likely to be a lie, so that's why I'm leaning to Vifam...

:goodposting:

Votes on Vifam before the deadline please

[killerjester]

Well that's...hmm..what?

You're cute when you're wrong.

[killerjester]

I'm sorry, how does misspelling Overlord make it a valid claim when it's still the only non-name claim out of 12 players?

[killerjester]

Regardless, Vifam should NOT be lynched and those who go through with it will be prime suspects.

Wow, honestly I'm off-set by this. You're talking like there's no way in hell Vifam could be scum. If you don't mind, can you go back and tell me why you have such a strong town read on Vifam?

[killerjester]

Okay wait. Are we arguing that scum are

given

fakeclaims along with their role PM, or arguing that the scum are just lying about their name and could have made up one on their own prerogative?

Because there is conclusive evidence supporting at least the latter. We don't know if scum were given fakeclaims in their PM though.

[killerjester]

Iecerint is town. I want more opinions on Vifam before I drop a bombshell. I would like to hear particularly from DH, Espe, Morthas, and rewq but feel free to put in your two cents if you aren't from that small pool of names.

[killerjester]

From the saying, it went over your head.

[killerjester]

It's a given that town Arcturus wouldn't lie about his name. Are we really going on about that still?

[killerjester]

VOTE: Espeonage

You. Do something about it.

[killerjester]

Espeonage is too scared to call anyone scum. Lolz.

[killerjester]

Ok then. Who are the bleedingly obvious scum if it isn't me?

It's not really "your opinion" if we hand feed you scum reads.

After all this talk, there's not one player who sticks out as slightly scummier than the rest?

[killerjester]

Also alongside your fullclaim, can you confirm for us how much of the formatting rewq got correct? For instance, does the role PM say "Name:" before the name? If you have an ability, is it called "Ability"? If not, what does the role PM call it?

The more specific you are, the more we can help you. Y'know..assuming you are town. If you slip up, we'll hang you. Here's rewq's post for reference.

Here is my full claim:

Name: Fenix (he is in the first game and brood wars which i havent played so anything i can tell you flavor-wise is from a wiki. He is protoss so cannot be the leader of the raiders.)

Ability: After death I can cast One vote at any point later in the game, and then I can also remove it. After I looked over the wiki I saw that after he dies he is made into a Dragoon so he can continue fighting. This is the only thing I've read about him that works with this power flavor-wise

[killerjester]

I wanna lynch Morthas tommorow.

I support this post.

[killerjester]

Bah! It's been fun while it lasted, glad I could replace in and help out

[killerjester]

Nice one guys! Sorry I couldn't help much past the Espeonage lynch. I got vigged

[killerjester]

No. Rewq's slot venge-kills whoever causes his death. Scum Supersaint+Bomb.

[killerjester]

Dead QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/bUVf8xafVygkD

[killerjester]

Maybe Vifam? But no town players was seriously close to being lynched.

[killerjester]

I'd think it was the standard cult win con. Controlling 50% of the town.

[killerjester]

And he forgot me ; ;

Selendis (Town)

Powers:
Guardian (Active)- Keep watch over one player and take a bullet for them.

Win Condition:
You win when all threats to town have been eliminated.

Please Confirm Via PM