Starcraft Mafia Mini 1210 (Over)

[Shadow Dancer]

One of scooby/Vifam is defintely laing if you ask me. Raynor cannot shoot an Overlord? Makes absolutely no sense. I want an explanation from both of them emidiatelly, i.e. please elaborate on the flavour that comes with the restriction.

Morthas I don't mind dying, but it's just a "no clear town read" thing right now.

[Shadow Dancer]

Oh, and hi, Iec, ooba, let's clear this of them space-scum quickly!
Want me to make one of those multicolour claim tables, Iec? ;P

[Shadow Dancer]

Thats exatly the point (and the flavour is expected to make some sense in relation to the actual game of starcraft).
That Arcturus Mensk cannot shoot his own son makes absolutely perfectly sense flavourwise.
That Jim Raynor should not be allowed to shoot some random hostile mass-produced flier unit makes no sense at all. So either scooby is not Raynor or Vifam is no Overlord.

[Shadow Dancer]

YOur protoss?


Ok. I believe him. Cause im protoss aswell.

C

ause

o

f

p

owerful reasons.

I breadcrumbed im cop so scum could target there kill on me, cause I have 1-shot bulletproof


and I dont think I got targeted

So why do you consider it a good idea to just openly claim it now?

[Shadow Dancer]

My role PM changed last night, but not with regard to alignment. Since the Mod hinted at alignment-modulators existing in the game, this means someone else may've been modulated.

So what has been modulated with your role.

I also want to point out that even if Iec's Town wincon is untouchable he may very well get into a situation where he is tempted to play for an alternative wincon that is contrary to town's interests. And this suggests that there are at least three factions in game because if he would just get a scum wincon in addition to a town wincon ... that would simply make no sense....

[Shadow Dancer]

Strange flavour for Edmund Duke... After all he was an opportunist who was all to happy to switch sides...

But one thing is clear... Main element of StarCraft storyline is treason which basically means every one against every one (somehow they had to make sure that all races somehow fight each other in all constellations in every campaign )

With this in mind I do not lile at all how certain people (explicitely Scott and kiwi) seem to base their analysis and claims on the assumption that there is only one possible night kill. I expect to see SKs and vigs in this game and if there's anything that made killerjester a likely scum kill I cannot see it.

[Shadow Dancer]

Worth noting that Vifam could have been alternascum, as Raynor -> cannot vote -> Kerrigan makes a lot of sense, and Kerrigan Arcturus scumteam makes very little sense, unless it's a Starcraft Episode 6-type alliance-type scumteam, but then Raynor would be scum with Kerrigan, too, and he wouldn't implicate her by saying he couldn't vote the Overlord-claimer.

More importantly that would imply that town was the UED (and their enslaved swarms)... Definitely not the case.

[Shadow Dancer]

I know not a thing about Starcraft lore, so you could tell me that Edmund Duke liked to eat babies and I'd believe you.

He probably wouldn't mind

[Shadow Dancer]

I see no reason to be against it.... But Vifam situation screams for major clarification.

[Shadow Dancer]

Scooby's a lyncher, I can feel it.

This is all you have to say about the issue?!

vote Vifam

[Shadow Dancer]

@Demon: And how has being a bloody newb ever made some one town? How can a newb mistake not have been a scum mistake?
We can lynch rewq or morthas later, but right now vifam is by far our best bet. I don't want to speculate what might have caused him to make that really off overlord claim, but it simply makes no sense.
Scooby elaborating on his vote restriction might shine some light on the issue, though.
Calling some one a lyncher is pretty obvious framing/miscrediting of an attacker. Don't say it isn't.
Also I have role related info that states that Raynor is in deed in this game and that hence scooby is in deed Raynor.

[Shadow Dancer]

scooby, please get yourself a Raynor-avatar, will you, thanks.

[Shadow Dancer]

So
I) either vifam is really an overlord and that role is really off
or II) it's his fake claim and it's still pretty off...
He very obviously has no knowledge of the flavour and did not realize how off the flavour was... Maybe scum got multiple safe claims to pick from or whatever, I don't know.
But what I know is that scooby is Jim Raynor and that a voting restriction on Overlords makes absolutley no sense for that role. What should it be? Jimmy's out for hunting, but unfortunately slimy meatballoons have closed season?
I say Vifam is lying about his role, not because it's different to all the other claims per se but because it does not fit at all with more confirmable role information I got otherwise.

Why

vifam's claim is off is not even a relevant point in that argument.
And "scum would not draw unneccessary" attention towards them is not only terribly WIFOMy but also plain wrong, condsidering that Vifam has no flavour knowledge and therefore could not know how much negative attention that claim would bring.

[Shadow Dancer]

What's a hypo-doc?
Anyway, a perfectly normal doc and countless other roles are absolutely perfect explanations for Demon still being alive.
Vifam's target claim is null and void after Demon quasi instructed him to do so.
If some one targeted Demon tonight he should probably do so. Docs however should be excluded, because I think we can nail down vifam-scum without a needless doc-outing.

[Shadow Dancer]

@DemonHybrid: It si just plain embarrassing how you take every claim at face value - hint: Scum vifam would be lying about his night action and you do not have nearly enough information to justify any of your speculations.

This is likely an all-power, definitely a very power heavy game. Every speculation that is based on most of the players being vanilla is absolute bogus.
Assuming that there are only 2 scum in a game this size with power roles is likewise bullshit.
And I believe that very possibly you or any one else was targeted by a kill which was doced or roleblocked and that unless we see at lest another night with only one kill we cannot safely assume that there's only one killing faction/role in the game and definitely we cannot clear any one based on that assumption.
Even if you think there is no SK there might be a vig or something else... Iec's claim suggests that factions in this game aren't exactly straight forward.

[Shadow Dancer]

Is there any reason not to explicitely explain what happened last night, Iec?

[Shadow Dancer]

Why again is it that you want to decide the lynch alone for all of us, Demon? There's more than one scum left, I think that can hardly be disputed, your favourite morthas lynch does not contradict any one else being scum, you should appreciate investigations into other directions more.
Do you expect me to uncompromisingly piggyback you for finding obvscum on D1?

[Shadow Dancer]

Demon, we have more than two weaks to lynch Morthas. Why should we tunnel through on one lynch? There must be more than one scum left.
And now I want to hear from all those who don't post ...

[Shadow Dancer]

@scooby: Why don't you adress the flavour that comes with your vote restriction?!

[Shadow Dancer]

Page 23 -

Will speculation concerning KJ's role be useful in any way?

@DH: Don't you think your having a bit too much of the tunnel vision?

Arcturus Mengsk couldn't shoot me. That's not to say that one of them is lying but there is at least one kill restriction in this game. So I would err on the side of believing it. Again I'm clueless in terms of SC flavor, but in terms of mafia flavor, it makes sense I think.

This is the first time you ever mention this (correct me if i'm wrong), I don't see the town motivation of mentioning this at all. Claiming your ability which is now useless and which makes you effectively a vanilla townie ain't in our favor because scum don't have any reason to shoot you anymore and have more chance of shooting a legitimate power role.
Now claiming that DOES give off town vibes buut I could see scheming scum do the same in order to gain town cred.

What makes you think a vote/kill restriction is the only part of scott's role? This looks like a long stretch to call some one scum.

That Jim Raynor should not be allowed to shoot some random hostile mass-produced flier unit makes no sense at all. So either scooby is not Raynor or Vifam is no Overlord.

QFT.
One of them is lieing and one of them has to die.

No content, no original thoughts, nothing that would shed light on the issue, but cool deflection, I give you that.

I'm betting that the infected has something to do here, either scum are infected and can infect or there is a third party that can do the same.

Is there anything I would benefit from knowing about "Greek Mythology Part 2" ?

By "infected" you mean "infested". All you need to know about Greek Mythology both parts, is that ooba an Iec and me love each other ;P

No content worth mentioning in the whole rest of that post, just random quoting and FUCKING ANNOYING ALLCAPS. I think I can skip that...

@Scott

: Jim Raynor is the charismatic leader of the rebels (the "good" terran faction, if you want), an overlord is just a flying Zerg unit (acts as detector to reveal invisible units, as transport and provides control/supply to allow you to produce more other units, and some other stuff/upgrades in SC2), but essentially they're just big flying meat balloons with no particular connection to any hero and there is absolutely no reason why Raynor should not be allowed to vote or kill one.

Anyway,

major FoS Morthas

Don't want to open the window for some jerk quickhemmering yet.

[Shadow Dancer]

Cool avatar, scooby ;D
What should I say, I agree with you... Don't know what else to say right now, I think I should read some ISOs... But that requires time and time is sparse right now :\

[Shadow Dancer]

The old one... I.e. not you...
We don't need to be right about Vifam being cult or being Kerrigan to realize that Vifam needs lynch... Stop the strawmanning, Demon.

[Shadow Dancer]

And I tell you for the nth time: There are virtually endless explanations for Demon being alive, including demon being sucm, but more likely some kind of doc/jailkeeper/roleblocker (or maybe even a busdriver/redirector... Seriously, what kind of games heve you played recently to be blind for all these?!)

I see no fundamental objections against lynching morthas next, unless something dramatic changed, but on the other hand I deeply detest queing lynches or any play that is intended to give scum reliable info for the future. So don't take this as a definite answer.

[Shadow Dancer]

Thank you very much for these deep insights, Mort. You should become a sports reporter or something.
And now tell me something I don't know already.
For example: Who is scum.
And what do you think about demon's tunnelling on you.

@Scott: If Morthas lynch isn't happening today, who'd be your #2 choice?

@rewq: How much longer do you expect me to wait till you finally contribute something to this game?

@death: Please prod ooba.

[Shadow Dancer]

THIS: My very contribution to every one's lurking contest.

[Shadow Dancer]

I would prefer you to read and then give

us

a summary.
If you want to quickly do something easy and useful, vote Vifam to L-1 so we can move this game on.

@Ooba: Have you claimed your night action yet?

[Shadow Dancer]

Demon, I just say this once: If you cannot deal with not not every one following you like little puppies in any halfway mature way I'll just entirely ignore anything you might say.

Ooba's reads are absolutely unusable... I hope there's going to come something with a bit more context and stuff.... I am particularly curious about that Scott-vote.

@Fur: Some weird claims at least suggest there being some third party or whatever...

Morthas has decided to stay the single most scummy person in game, congratulations. Should you ever have time you can maybe produces some not-so-deleted-in-progress post ot whatever the fashionable excuse may be at ther time of you making said post...

[Shadow Dancer]

Vifam is in no way an obvious town watcher. Every one who advocates such a nonsense should seiously revise his or her twisted thought processes.

[Shadow Dancer]

Ooba, don't try to meta me that way, you'll never learn to read me if you assume that I play the same in each game or that my general behaviour is determined by my malignment.
Seriously, what a bogus, if I and X were scum wanting to get rid of a watche, tell me why we would not just have night killed him?
And who would ever claim a vote restriction to frame a watcher? You're back at conspiracy theories,that's just horribe.
But since you cannot get a wink: For reasons that I cannot disclose yet lynching mort today is suboptimal play. Vifam lynch on the other hand holds a ton of information.
I need to reread some people, maybe there's a third alternative...

Every one who considers vifam a town watcher should at least state a good reason to do so. No, "Vifam claimed so" isnot a good reason, neither is "Killerjester is a watcher dodge" or "Demon was not night killed", because neither of these can clearly distinguish town vifam from scum vifam. In fact if you really think scum were so affraid of the watcher as to do a really suboptimal night kill, why don't you ask yourself how town watcher vifam is still alive?

You also failed to explain your scott vote. Instead you pointed outhow you "loved him" for his day1 vote on Esp now. Please explain.

Also, Newman claimed that he could confirm protoss roles or something, if you can confirm some one's claim you should probably do it now,

[Shadow Dancer]

I'm still here talking to you.

I think that's evidence enough. Iece's claim that he had a switched role makes me believe that I was not targeted by EITHER a wincon changing or killing role, and because of that, I believe that they were AFRAID of a watcher.

Adress my points against your theory!
Do it now!

[Shadow Dancer]

Damn, I try to reread some people, but the constant stream of replacements in this game make that a really fucked up task

[Shadow Dancer]

We've still got almost a week to deadline... Maybe I can find a lynch that every one can agree on...

@DeathNote: Could you please add the deadline to your vote counts? I don't particularly enjoy having to seek the dawn post every time I want to know when it is.

[Shadow Dancer]

Good point about cloak. Needless to say mort won't cloak next night... If he does that's equivalent to a scum claim. No excuses for failing actions!

No, Nova is not an ally in either scenario... She just got a job to do and is nice enough to ask for Jimmy's support.
Tosh on the other hand is an ally, unless you side with nova and betray him...

[Shadow Dancer]

How would DeathNote give out a red hering role

and

a voting restriction on that role that makes zero sense? "Bastard mod" is an all-time convenient expanation but the assumption that Vifam in one way or another just screwed up his claim is far more likely.
And from an information standpoint of view it would be good to know just

how

bastard the mod actually is.

[Shadow Dancer]

How often do I need to point out that you lack sufficient information to do proper night kill analysis, demon? And when in doubt, night kill analysis is just WIFOMish and bad.

[Shadow Dancer]

Night kill analysis only works if you are sure that you know how many killing parties/roles there are, if you can reasonbly be sure that no kill was redirected and if you can match the kills with the parties. I have doubts about any of these points after only one night.

[Shadow Dancer]

Did Iec just manage t get the salient point across to Demon? Can we stop the sarcastic strawmanning now? Great!

Also:

Hello! Hello? Tarsonis to

Ooba

! This is Shadow speaking. You still did not explain your scott vote, neither did you adress your night action as I asked you to do.

[Shadow Dancer]

For my and every one's convenience (mostly to help me keep track of claims and all the replacements when rereading):

player	role name	role spec.	status	misc. claims
Kiwieagle	Zeratul		alive
killerjester Acronach	Selendis		blown to smithereens night 1
ooba HellloooNewman	Artanis	name confirm for protoss/??? for other race	alive
Scott Brosius gbevilchaos	Valerian Mengsk		alive	knew Arcturus was in the game
Morthas	Gabriel Tosh		alive
Espeonage	Arcturus Mengsk Matt Horner		lynched day 1
Iecerint kondi2424	Samir Duran		alive
Scooby avasthearties	Jimmy Raynor		alive	not allowed to vote vifam
??? Vifam	Overlord	Watcher	alive
Furcolow rewq455	Fenix		alive
ShadowDancer Psyche	Tychus Findlay		alive	confirms Raynor
DemonHybrid Stels	Edmund Duke		alive

[Shadow Dancer]

So

in what way

was Gbevil "scummy as hell" on page 15?

[Shadow Dancer]

Ouch! Sucker!

[Shadow Dancer]

Why the fuck did you need so bloodily long to finish this ?!?! @%&/?!
Yes, this goes to you, scooby, why didn't you just claim your failed neighbourizing attempt on morthas? You could have also verified me as the vig... Seriously ooba - an SK? In a mini where there is already a cult as 3rd party?

[Shadow Dancer]

However, this game makes my W/L record balanced out for the first time ever (9:9).

[Shadow Dancer]

- Killjester was a terribly bad vig shot given D1 play

You're right... But I Only had tame for a really hasty catchup. I got scum N2 and was right on the other two, so I guess that makes up for it.

- DN has a history of making scum heavy setups (Could see someone going "Seriously - 4 Mafia in a 12 player mini game? in Greek Mythology)

Yeah, but they had to face like four cops or something and all belonged to the same faction.

And

Greek Mythology also had a vig.

[quote="In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 2#p3480772]- And making plans in case of extreme cases isn't a bad thing. If it's three scum, Morthas was the only Mafia possibility. Lynching him would end the game. If not, making a night plan is common sense.[/quote]
What I don't understand is just why scooby did not fullclaim which would have prevented needless dicussions like this one.

Why the fuck aren't these people dead yet?:

Morthas
rewq
ESPEONAGE

Yet you vengeance killed SD?

No, that was rewq/furc slot and it wasn't an actual vengekill but a superbomb (i.e. bomb + supersaint role).

[Shadow Dancer]

Hard to acomplish with only a 1-shot recruit the kills the follower after one day-night-cycle

[Shadow Dancer]

Anyway: Every one join this game!

[Shadow Dancer]

Hey, DeathNote, you forgot half the town roles!