CAH- UPICK- GAME OVER!!!

[Whiskers]

Iiiiiii'm actually going to request a deadline extension. I'm hesitant to replace into UPicks, because usually the replacement is a player who got a shit role and flaked, but I took a look at this one and Klazam replaced out from IRL circ.
In other words: I didn't replace into a dead slot, so intend to hit the ground running and try to keep up.

@DN: Votecount?

[Whiskers]

Just Out of Curiosity, why are we attacking Mel & Xi?

I'm reading bits and pieces.
Bloodcovenant seems particularly aware of how his roleclaim will affect him-- going so far to announce that he won't be killed by the vig (because Townie) and he won't be killed by the mafia (Hated), and he won't be lynched (Townie). It's fishy-- and then he goes, "BUT WHY WOULD SCUM CLAIM HATED TOWNIOE!??!?!?"
The first thing I think of is, "Because then you won't be voted on by the town, you won't be killed by any Vigs, and you will have

an excuse

as to why you haven't been killed by the mafia."

Just saying.

I don't like shos. He seems volatile. Wild and stupid. He misunderstands things that are clear (and given) for everyone else. Town? Scum? Okay, okay, "Too dumb to scum," but I like to claim that doesn't exist. Also, look at how much resistance there's been to his wagon. It just won't go through. Scumbuddies?

At the same time, the wagon VS that is kdowns, who is a lurker.

vote: kdowns

Scum wins games by lurking-- especially games like this one where there's a lot of unknowns and town is spending more time trying to sort itself out than in an open game.

Also: GARR brings up an interesting thing on Xis, and I think that, with regards to this tell, a scumflip on kdowns will add scumpoints to Xis-- but I also think that Xis and shos could be scum together; "bus bus bus." In other words: I don't think a Xis scumflip will tell us anything about either one of them, but a scumflip from either one of them could tell us about Xis.
(Also, Xis could be town. I have a fractured view of the game, but I haven't seen anything outstanding or awesome or outrageous from Xis to say he's scum.)

^tl;dr, lynch kdowns first, analyse the flip, go from there.

I think the vig should vig the hated townie (BC), because if I'm understanding it correctly, having him in lylo would be an instant loss-- and because I'm not convinced he's not scum (or third party).

[Whiskers]

@Whiskers

: Is a scum dayvig actually remotely possible to guess from your role, or is it more likely that klazam simply misread or misinterpreted his PM?

You guys sure are 100% positive that we have a Vigilante in a 12 player game that already has 4 neighbors, a hated townie and a claimed "Mother Effin' Sorcerer"that claims to be able to break the game for confirmed roles, based on zero evidence or indication from the set up. I know it's a role heavy set up but geez, what are you gonna do when Day 2 roles around and BC is still alive? Start cursing out the imaginary Vig for not doing his imaginary job?

I personally wouldn't assume there is a vig, however, there are other powerroles and, considering a powerheavy mod (?), and a theme game, a killing role isn't unlikely.

[Whiskers]

Holy shit this is awful. you don't even bring up a reason to vote Kdowns other than "is a lurker." You don't even bring up the "big case" on him. You just vote him. Why vote him?


klazam didn't strike me as town, and whiskers isn't helping.

Because dueling wagons between kdowns and shos?

I'm not aware of the "big case." But I read his ISO and he's certainly no shos. He posts one-liners that are information, not analysis. This is good scum play-- if it gets you ignored. If you can't accept "the greater of two evils", etc etc, just call it a policy lynch. I'm policy lynching him for bad and scummy play.

shos is just wrong most of the time when I read him. But, if he is scum, he will continue to be scum tomorrow, and we will catch him then.

[Whiskers]

Now you're defending kdowns?

Iiiiiii'm actually going to request a deadline extension. I'm hesitant to replace into UPicks, because usually the replacement is a player who got a shit role and flaked.

So by your own quote, you basically called him town that got a shit role and flaked, because i can't see why scum would flake.

Unless something huge in the QT between the neighborhood suggests that kdowns is scum, i would rather we lynch inte or Xis first.

There is a difference between flaking out of a game and lurking through a game. Also, a player can be active before flaking. Also, getting a shitty role isn't indicative of alignment.
Why inte or Xis? Inte looks unusually competent this game (although, I'm reading him next to shos), and this (page) is the first pressure I've seen on Xis all game.

Holy shit this is awful. you don't even bring up a reason to vote Kdowns other than "is a lurker." You don't even bring up the "big case" on him. You just vote him. Why vote him?


klazam didn't strike me as town, and whiskers isn't helping.

Because dueling wagons between kdowns and shos?

I'm not aware of the "big case." But I read his ISO and he's certainly no shos. He posts one-liners that are information, not analysis. This is good scum play-- if it gets you ignored. If you can't accept "the greater of two evils", etc etc, just call it a policy lynch. I'm policy lynching him for bad and scummy play.

shos is just wrong most of the time when I read him. But, if he is scum, he will continue to be scum tomorrow, and we will catch him then.

Half of Kdown's posts were during the RVS and dealt with random shit. sure the rest of them sucked, and sure he might have flaked. But you're holding a double standard there. Smash says he thinks Kdowns might have flaked. you say you agree by calling it a policy lynch.

Thanks for putting words into my mouth, but I can speak for myself. I'm policy lynching a lurker, not a flaker. I didn't formally agree with Smash on "he flaked," but I agree that we should lynch him. At

least

, we should lynch him before, say, Xis, unless you can give me more of a case than "Xis is protecting Kdowns" because THAT implies that kdowns is his scumbuddy.

I'm generally ok with Lynch all Lurkers, so I wouldn't mind a kdowns lynch at all, but obvious scum go first. Not moving my shos vote.

reeks of fence sitting.

If I was fence-sitting, I would by definition be straddling 2 positions. In case the fact of my vote isn't making it clear enough, I have a preference for today's lynch, and that preference is shos.

You offered like four candidates for a lynch potential, i hardly call that straddling 2 positions. You said lynch all lurkers ( could apply to multiple people in this game), and then the other two candidates. Meaning you don't care who we lynch today.[/quote]What a misrep! He clearly was referring to kdowns-- the OTHER wagon, and the wagon that was the current topic of discussion -- and shos, to whom he referred later in that post.
So:

You offered like four candidates for a lynch potential, i hardly call that straddling 2 positions.

Incorrect. He offered two candidates here-- and was only willing to lynch one right now.
And:

You said lynch all lurkers ( could apply to multiple people in this game),

Obviously refers to kdowns,

and then the other two candidates.

If by this you mean "But obvious scum goes first," then he was obviously referring to shos,

Meaning you don't care who we lynch today.

this is also bullshit, because he clearly said, "SO MY VOTE WILL STAY ON SHOS."
______________________________________________________________________________________

Glad to see this game picking up steam.

Garar-alt, your response is noted, thank you.

All of this neighbourhood talk is somewhat distracting, I think. So long as we find scum and lynch scum we are on the right track.

+Scum points.
-You're trying to deflect the town from discussion.

If you could tell me how this discussion is in any way productive, I might be chastened. So far, all I've seen is smashbard come up with hypothetical NK orders. If you think that's better information than lynching scum today, have at it.

MORE DISCUSSION FOR THE TOWN = GOOD. LESS DISCUSSION = BAD. K?

O?
Rly?

What's your card, BCov?

[Whiskers]

BC is probably town since I don't really see the point to hated scum. It'd be like, "Surprise! You lynched someone early! He was..scum?"

If he is lying about his alignment, why wouldn't he be lying about his role? If he claims hated,
#he never goes to (normal) L-1 unless town is trying to lynch him (and at that point, they see he's lying and lynch him anyway).
#he never gets vigged because "hated" doesn't fit with "scum," as you described here.
#he will not get nightkilled by mafia, because he is easier to lynch-- or, at least, that's his excuse.

It's like claiming Miller (BC did compare the two): why would scum do it? To not die.

[Whiskers]

Hey, KJ! I haven't seen you for... well,

years!

I don't remember clearly, but I think I missed you.


But, I'll buy that.
(Hey, if you see a "big case" on kdowns while rereading, link it me, would you?)

[Whiskers]

Alt account because you didn't want to have to lurk all game?

[Whiskers]

^

NS, do you understand

why

it is important for BC (the Hated Pokemon) to be dead before LyLo?

[Whiskers]

Okay, but we don't

know

that he's town. Also, can you tell me your opinion: is it better to have a vig shoot [???] Night 1, leaving the liability for a later night, or for a vig shoot the liability N1 and shoot other players later nights, when she has more information?


Also, wouldn't this help confirm that there is, in fact, a vig?

[Whiskers]

I'd rather have vig shoot scum. That'd certainly confirm that there is a vig.

Hi! you're stupid.
If you know who the scum are, then go ahead and tell us, and the vig can shoot them instead. IF you don't know who scum are, then no, the vig can't reliably shoot scum.

Then he'll fuckin' shoot N2 as well.

This was already explained, so I'll leave it for the juicier tidbit:

I don't understand why everyone's in a hurry to get rid of the hated townie. If he's threatening enough maybe the scum will have to kill him.

First of all, he hasn't been threatening at all. He sheeps and has pretty big misconceptions about what's good/town and what's scum/bad. For example, the recent bit on ALL TALKING = TOWN.

Also, the scum will never,

ever

kill him, and here's why (and, this is all assuming he's town, not scum fakeclaiming):
If he gets to three-person lylo, mafia instantly wins by voteing and hammering him with ONE vote.
If town doesn't want that to happen, they will have to lynch him-- a lynch that they could, otherwise, spend lynching mafia.


I'll read the most recent page now.

[Whiskers]

Looks like downs/sky has been hammerfed?

Also gonna say, I don't like dajudge or his post.

[Whiskers]

So, uh, Melmond's vote doesn't count?

[Whiskers]

Holy cats, two pages. Cumsplosion.
Inte, why are you unvoting?

Also, can someone show me why Xis is obvscum? I haven't read the whole thread (I probably never will), but I didn't see anything that stood out.

I like shos for town, in addition to the niehgbourhood.

[Whiskers]

Not accusing, just pointing out: You're changing your vote based on what other people are doing-- like, to blend in?

[Whiskers]

I'm not really loving the neighbourhood claim so early, and though I have found smash to be pretty town so far, I'm not just going to take klick's word on the matter. Some paraphrasing of the relevant QT sections tomorrow would be nice. Klick himself is my strongest townread of all at the moment.

Is this it?
I mean, reading him in ISO, I could call him scum for a couple of things, but he's pretty shos-focused. If I had to bring up something else, it'd be that Xis prodded kdowns before he was replaced.

I'm not seeing it as obviously as the rest of you are, apparently.

[Whiskers]

That's a hammer by my count. Somebody kill this clownfuck ASAP.

(Is this a gambit?)

[Whiskers]

Xis fencesitting against shos and his buddy, basically hes trying to gain towncred by considering kdowns and then being able to join the wagon without suspicion, but at the same time he can avoid going for kdowns by wagoning shos instead.

Also that post of Xis to Nitesky feels like scum trying to help buddy.

And I still think Whiskers is probably scum, ftr

Okay, but, he wasn't "fencesitting against shos." That was the thing that he was really obvious and adamant about.

And iirc, he didn't "wagon" shos, he was one of the first votes on him.

Which post?

And, "still?" was that a thing?

[Whiskers]

It's a good question though.

Vote: Xis

I've seen BGs that die on %, actually.

[Whiskers]

If there is a vig, it is not me.
I can't be targetted by spells or abilities.

[Whiskers]

I should rephrase: My ability is "Rolestopped." Night actions against me automatically fail.

[Whiskers]

I didn't leave any breadcrumbs, I'm not good at it. Klazam's insistance that there must be a vig may be one, since the role PM says nothing specifically about it.

[Whiskers]

Kinda letting Klick run this, so, yeah, "Popcorn: Dajudge"

[Whiskers]

What is your card name.

We're lyncing BC today.

[Whiskers]

Okay, there are two lynches possible today.
The first is BC. He needs to go before lylo.
The second is DaJudge, with BC hammering.

inte - Switching to Geico (Doctor)
Dajudge - Hot Pockets (Vengeful)
Whiskers - Being a Motherfucking Sorcerer (Rolestopped)
BloodCovenent - CARD NAME!? (Hated)
klick - ?/?
Smashbard - Jews (Neighbour)

Gonna say, three of these are adjectives and two of them are nouns.

BC, if you are really what you say you are, are you a good lynch today?

[Whiskers]

...fair enough, you could argue that. That only makes you stand out more.
Well, okay, "Neighbour" could be a verb too.
Aaah whatever, nvm

[Whiskers]

What is

your

flavour?
My role specifically isn't in the wiki. The role power applies to me, passively, rather than being directed at my will.
My flavour is like, "You're a sorcerrer, nobody fucks with you". That's not verbatim, but it's what I recall of the top of my head.

What is your flavour, inte? Why is Switching to geico a doctor?

[Whiskers]

Well, sorry.

[Whiskers]

I'm going to say: Flavour is not indicative of alignment.

I will also say: BC

must go

. Whether he is lying or telling the truth, he doesn't have to go home, but he can't stay here. He is either a hated townie, and must be lynched before lylo, or is lying, and must be lynched.

[Whiskers]

I'm not sure that would even work. I'm not just ascetic, I'm bulletproof. I'm Rolestopped.

Nothing

works on me, I think-- although-- it might just be night actions? If day actions and kills function normally, I would understand Klaz's assertion that there's a dayvig.
I'll check my PM and ask the mod.

[Whiskers]

The PM does say that I untargetable by night-actions.

That's cool, lynch me tomorrow, but we

must lynch you today

because if you ARE a Hated townie, and there are another two kills tonight, somehow, it will be Lylo and scum will hammer and lynch you with one vote.

[Whiskers]

Asked DN the same question Klick did, got the same answer, except he said (paraphrase): that's a general roles answer, not setup-specific.
Ask him for yourself, I assume he'll give the same answer-- which means that Klick was intentionally spinning it to make me look like a liar, which I am not.

Also,

Xis could be locked onto a PR.

Also,

In my Role PM.

Also in the fact that two scum in a four-person neighborhood is really unlikely, as the proportion of scum-town between the Neighborhood and the non-Neighborhood are likely equal.

Claim: I am

Cybernetic Enhancements

, a 1-shot sacrificial Bodyguard. N1 I protected Klick, my strongest town read, but my action failed.

Though I'm loath to concede this point, the neighbourhood has to be 100% scum-free now. The remaining scum has to be a non-neighbour.

Also, consider: You're the only member of the neighbourhood, the KKK, who could have any way to kill.
Also,

It came up because of the unexplained kill.

I have no idea how often they're used. How is it relevant?

i've played games where people bring up theory X, or role Y (one game someone brought up the idea of a godfather). When that theory comes up, it comes out of the left field, out of nowhere. `Then when lynched, that player either was part of theory X, or role Y (in that game, the guy that brought up godfather turned out to be the godfather).


what i'm saying is, i think if there really is a poisoner, the person that brought it up is likely to have information regarding said role.

Also, the majority of your posts have been one or two lines.

what

doesn't

make sense from a klickscum, if the dajudgekill, since the plan was to lynch whiskers and make inte hammer.

We are at Lylo. We do not mislynch anymore.





...I'm also not comfortable with how smash is posting-- it's all sheeping, and popular opinions, but I don't

think

he is scum.

[Whiskers]

I thought Klick directed Inte to protect himself (Klick) or you, chosen at random?

[Whiskers]

~Please note that I am

not

a player in this game! No more role speculation questions or attempting to use the Mod to help your case. Play the game on your own and stop trying to use me. Thank you.~

Also, I think this is kind of 100% unfair-- you didn't stop Klick from doing it, and letting him make it into a case, only when I want to defend myself FROM that case, you turn around and say, "No no no, you can't ask me for information that I willingly gave before!"
If you won't answer questions in-thread, how can you ban PM questions?

~This isn't really up for discussion. I am just stating that from this point on, no more questions to the mod to try and gain information about the set up. Play the game with what you know and not by using me. Thank you.~

[Whiskers]

inte claimed Doc. Since the scum would be retarded to kill anyone but me or Smash, I want inte to RANDOMLY choose between the two of us for his protection.

[Whiskers]

inte claimed Doc. Since the scum would be retarded to kill anyone but me or Smash, I want inte to RANDOMLY choose between the two of us for his protection.

DaJudge, Vengeful Townie, blew up and shot night 3.

[/b]

That was the best kill for anyone remaining.

[Whiskers]

Inte: You've been out of character imo, this game. When I replaced in, I said something about you being a lot smarter than you were in other games. Later, when it was time to claim, I was pretty sure you were the vig-- in my mind, that's why you were waiting for dajudge to claim before you.

Also, it appears to have been you, not Klick, who first suggested the poisoner role, it's just that BC didn't pick up on it until after Klick said it.

[Whiskers]

i'm wrong about the poisoner

check the flavor of the kills

one of you fucks is a fucking vig

I'm actually really glad you mentioned flavour.

[quote="In post 1,
adorkable-

Blown to Bits

Night 1- Town Roleblocker- Pacman uncontrollably guzzling cum
Melmond-

Shot

Night 1- Serial Killer- Morgan Freeman's Voice

shos-

Blown to Bits

Night 2- Town Neighbor- The Amish
GARARARRR-

Shot

Night 2- Town Redirector- Shapeshifters

Dajudge-

Shot

/

Blown to Bits

Night 3- Vengeful Townie- Hot Pocket[/quote]
Whoever is blowing people to bits is still up and kicking. They just targetted the same person.

That was the best kill for anyone remaining.

Apparently so.

Vote:Klick

[Whiskers]

Fuckin--

i'm wrong about the poisoner

check the flavor of the kills

one of you fucks is a fucking vig

I'm actually really glad you mentioned flavour.

adorkable-

Blown to Bits

Night 1- Town Roleblocker- Pacman uncontrollably guzzling cum
Melmond-

Shot

Night 1- Serial Killer- Morgan Freeman's Voice

shos-

Blown to Bits

Night 2- Town Neighbor- The Amish
GARARARRR-

Shot

Night 2- Town Redirector- Shapeshifters

Dajudge-

Shot

/

Blown to Bits

Night 3- Vengeful Townie- Hot Pocket[/color]

Whoever is blowing people to bits is still up and kicking. They just targetted the same person as the shooter.

That was the best kill for anyone remaining.

Apparently so.

Vote:Klick

[Whiskers]

Whenever I think about the KKK killing someone, I think about lynch mobs and burning. I don't imagine people blowing up, which is what the flavor implies. I also don't consider blowing up something that involves a Poisoner. Out of all these claimed roles the only one I imagine makes sense with blowing people up is a mother fucking sorcerer.

That's a good point.

Perhaps shooting?

Don't know, but aren't you and inte confirmed town now for not quickhammering Klick?
Except, if there is an SK.

unvote

If there is an SK and mafia, town cannot win. Even if we lynch a Killer (SK or mafia), the other just shoots a townie, game over. Even taking me personally to night does not guarantee a win, because the killer just kills the

other

townplayer.

So: The only townwin scenario is to no-lynch and hope that killers kill each other?
Discuss.

[Whiskers]

Oh?
With two kill-flavours per night, and both of them targetting the same nightkill, I'm assuming there are two killing roles still. Smash and inte BOTH had the chance to hammer you, considering I'd voted for you and they both posted afterward.

Or... 50%+1?
whatever.
The point is: you're scum.

[Whiskers]

also, it takes 3 to lynch

VOTE: Whiskers

My bad: you're not confirmed town.
Yeah, 50%+1 is three votes, not two.

Vote to No Lynch

Possibilities:
Killer 1 shoots town, Killer 2 shoots town: Draw?
Killer 1 shoots town, Killer 2 shoots Killer 1: Killer 2 Endgames
Killer 1 shoots Killer 2, Killer 2 shoots Killer 1: Town wins
Killer 1 shoots town, Killer 2 shoots Whiskers: Town Kingmaker
Killer 1 shoots Killer 2, Killer 2 shoots Whiskers: LYLO vs Killer 1

Everyone should No lynch, unless the mafia and SK want to out and agree to both shoot town for a scum/scum draw. No lynching now is the only way town has a chance of winning later on.

[Whiskers]

How would that clear smash?

[Whiskers]

Let's say for a moment that I killed one of them, how does that clear smash?

please answer fully, my understanding of this point changes the outcome of the game.

[Whiskers]

I still don't get it.

I am what I claimed, I'm a bad liar. That's why I checked with the mod on the question Klick asked.

Now: there are two ways this can go. The first way, is that we lynch someone-- Klick, Me, whomever-- and the scum-not-lynched wins.
The other way is to no-lynch. Town can not win by lynching scum today. Town has a very low chance of winning by lynching town today. Town's best chance to win is to no-lynch.

Town can not win by lynching scum today.

To do so leaves three players going into night: one scum, and two townies. The scum shoots a townie, making Day 5 1/1, game over,

town loses

.
The

only

way for town to win is to:
-have a vig, which I wouldn't believe at this point, and then lynch scum, or
-no-lynch, hoping scum kill each other.

[Whiskers]

What doesn't make sense is, if there is only one scum, and Klick is vig and worried I'd kill him, why wouldn't he claim now?

[Whiskers]

Then the

only

hope for town is to no lynch now, hope I shoot the other scumthing. Since I can not die in the night, if there are two townies alive tomorrow, they will lynch me.
Actually, now that I say that, if I shoot a townie and the other killer makes no-kill, there will be one townie and one killer and me.

Look. There are two kills going through. There is only one mafia-member left. It's NOT a poisoner, clearly, since "blown up" has been killing things since Night 1.

This is me outting. I'm the last mafia member. I'm what I claimed. We don't have any more members, we don't have any poisoners or extra kills.
There is an SK or other killing role causing things to be "blown to bits." If it's a vig, it will now out itself and I'll be lynched and town will win.
If it's not, it will out itself and we will negotiate to try to come to a draw-- you would have to, since I can kill you, but not you me.
If it wants to stay hidden, then the town can

only

win by no-lynching, as I have said many times.

Town can not win by lynching me, if there is another non-town-aligned killing role.[/b] I'm giving you a chance.

[Whiskers]

Uh, I (and Klazam) killed the "Shot" flavoured kills. I think Klazam did night one, I'm not sure. The reason being, I can't be tracked, can't be PGO'd, etc.

Although, I wonder if passive roles (like, "Your Killer Is Announced", or Investigative roles that check dead players for things,) would have worked against me. Roles that didn't target me directly. That'd be a good balance for my role.

We killed the SK thinking he was a vig, iirc. I killed Garr because he was a damn wildcard.

[Whiskers]

Great, but where did the other kills come from?

[Whiskers]

And-- look, if I'm somehow wrong and there ARE no other killing roles, then there will just be all of you -1 tomorrow, and you will lynch me then anyway.

[Whiskers]

I don't know why you're trying to help. It's all on your shoulders if we nolynch to win the game for town. Best case scenario for you is that you kill the other Serial Killer while the SK successfully kills town, so you win 1 to 1.

Exactly. But it's becoming less and less likely as we talk about it.
I waited until I was pretty sure there would be no surprise vig claims to claim myself.

But, Smash: 5 anti-town roles all on the same team would have been a fast loss for town, them having differing alignments means that they cross kill, or are lynched. And Melmond didn't even get a shot off-- limited use, I presume?

So: as you said. If you lynch me, the SK wins. If you lynch somepony else, I win. If you nolynch, it is a shot in the dark, a better-that-zero chance for town to win, and a better-that-zero chance for me to win. Truly, a better than zero chance for the SK to win, too, but it

severely

reduces his chances to win (like you said, lynch me, SK wins; no lynch, SK

might

win).

I've already cast my vote.

[Whiskers]

...Answer what? You were asking me

again

what my power was? Sorry, I thought you were asking inte, who didn't claim early, who didn't confirm that claim again Day 1, who made that same claim at LYLO (when we all claimed), who claimed it later as a scum role, etc, etc, etc.

I'm "Being a Mother fcuking Sorcerer," Mafia Godfather. I can't be targetted by night actions. I can still be lynched, and, presumably, I can still by vengefully shot. I have access to make the Mafia kill every night and, in fact, did multiple times.
That is my fetish.

[Whiskers]

Klick: It's a passive ability. I can't control it or turn it off, so I'm also not restricted from making the kill. Like a Godfather can still make the kill even though his (passive) ability is that cops report him Town.

Inte: If I am a PGO, that still doesn't explain where all the extra kills came from because

two of the players "blown to bits" didn't have active night actions.

There is still a(n extra) killing role and out of all of you I don't know who it is. It does you NO GOOD to lynch me now instead of tomorrow. If you're worried I'm a PGO, don't target me at night.

ninja'd twice

[Whiskers]

Someday you'll learn that Whiskers doesn't lie.

What I don't understand is why you would NOT no lynch. Whether or not I am lying about my powers, there is another kill being made (not delayed, since it happened on Night 1) (not PGO/reactionary, because killed a vanilla neighbor and a dayvig-role), and town

can not win if it lynches me today

, and even if it's somehow an asshole vig or something, and I'm 100% wrong, then tomorrow rolls around and you lynch me, instant town win.

So why are you trying to lynch me today, no matter what you think of me?

[Whiskers]

There are,

in short, two

reasons:
1 - I'm townsided scum. that's how I play the game and why people think I'm good as scum-- I try to do protown things.
I also figured you all would prefer to have the chance to win, and, if it comes down to a town kingmaker, maybe town would king me, instead of the other guy.
2 - I get easily confused, and I like to tell the truth-- it helps me keep everything straight if "everything" is what's actually going on. The other reason I'm "good as scum". I'm honest, even if it means taking unpopular (non-oppourtunistic, difficulty-creating) choices. "Why would scum do X if they could just take the easy way out?" I was pretty sure I was close to outing myself anyway, and figured I may as well spill it and give the town more information (which still allows me a chance of winning), than to be lynched, which makes both of us lose.
3 - What I just said above: I got the feeling there was a good chance I was about to be lynched and also realized that town can not win if I am lynched. A nolynch is beneficial to both Whiskers and Town.
4 - If an SK outted, I had a chance of negotiating with him.
I think that's all of them. It's at least

some

of them.

[Whiskers]

inte, would you unvote and pay attention for a second?
Where does the "blown to bits" kill come from??? It can't be from a PGO. In fact, "shot" can't come from a PGO either (although I'm claiming those are mafia kills), since both of them targetted dajudge, who didn't have a night-action (and therefore couldn't have triggered a PGO).

If you lynch me, the game goes to night with three players, two townies, one killing role. The next day, there are two players: one townie, one killing role. That's endgame. Town loses.

[Whiskers]

i am literally sticking my fingers in my ears and saying "lalala can't hear you"

Then I deduce that you are the last scum.

[Whiskers]

k. town loses.

[Whiskers]

And, btw, that's stupid. Even if DN made an unbalanced game, it's not DN's fault that you chose a loss over a chance at winning when you had all of the information.

[Whiskers]

And then inte, who is actually literally

ignoring

the fact that neither shos nor dajudge had a visiting power, so neither of them

could

be hit with a PGO.

And both of you together, with your whole "town can only mislycnh once" thing, which is untrue: the scum-saturated village means scum will make cross kills-- and, here, I was giving you a shot at doing so. That also explains my role a bit: SKs might shoot the other two mafia, but they can't shoot me. It's a fail-safe. Setup designer was hoping for cross-kills.
Oh, yeah, I also forgot to mention: scum already killed one of your serial killers, so what are you complaining about?

[Whiskers]

Okay, fair enough-- But you still haven't accounted for two of the "blown to bits" kills. And I've given you a plan in which,

should

I be mistaken, you automatically win. You have an opportunity to win but you're saying you're going to vote me and lose and blame the loss on the mod. You're going to take the loss and blame it on the mod

even though there is still an opportunity to win

, and

if I am wrong about there being another killer, this plan lets you autowin

.

I DON'T understand why you are voting me. It is my sole job to win. Not to manipulate you. Win by whatever means. In this case, the only way I can win, is if you no lynch. Coincidentally, that's also the only way YOU can win-- unless you are the last scum, in which case it's the only way you can NOT win.

[Whiskers]

Ugh, do I point out the flaw now, when I see it, and get lynched, or do I point it out tomorrow when it's too late, and get lynched?

[Whiskers]

the only objection is, "what if you're the killer?" It's really a toss up for me, among all three of you.

[Whiskers]

fair enough.
Works for me.

[Whiskers]

Inte:
Would you Target (with whatever ability you may have) Klick, should the game go into night?

My choice has become a coinflip so I am less worried about the whole thing.

[Whiskers]

Hmm.

VOTE: Whiskers

The Mafia didn't have a Bodyguard and a role that couldn't be targeted.

Okay. Even if this WERE the case, what are you trying to lynch me for? What, even if you think I'm some magical SK instead-- you'd give the game to the mafia? Just any non-whiskers scum faction? No matter what alignment you think I am,

there are two kills going on each night

and

you can not win the game by lynching me today

. We've been through this over and over and over. I've admitted to being responsible for one of those kills. Even if you think I'm an SK instead of the last mafia, that doesn't explain where all the god damn extra kills are coming from AND THAT MEANS YOU LOSE.

And, for god's sake, smash. I let town be kingmaker. You're going to give the game to inte for holding out longer? I was honest with the town as soon as I realized what was going on. inte has lied longer, so he gets a reward? Thanks. Thanks ever so much.

[Whiskers]

Just out of curiosity, Klick, are you the last scum?

vote:Klick

It's kingmaker, I guess. Smash decided who wins: Klick, or me, if Smash is town, or himself, if he's the Killer.

[Whiskers]

If Klick was the killer, he won yesterday but chose not to for whatever stupid reason. Lynch Whiskers, Kill Inte, and I would of got end gamed.

Derp, I keep forgetting about this.

smashbard i want an apology

Wow. Holy fuck.

I want an apology from DN.

At least: bastard-roles should be marked as a bastard mod game. An SK that kills after it dies serves no purpose.

[Whiskers]

An SK that kills after it dies serves no purpose.

But 100% fucked me over.

In that I was under the impression that there was another killing role, and then that I didn't kill at the end of the game which literally caused my team to lose.
I'm pretty fucking mad. I'll get over it, but this is the part of the show where I rant and bitch.

[Whiskers]

Melmond was an SK that could send mod messages at day start. He had the option to tree stump himself after death or be able to continue making night kills after death. In hindsight, I wouldn't let Melmond kill after death once lylo hits so limiting his after death kills would have been a good idea.

Why would he do either? Both of these options allow him to majorly influence the game for whichever side he wanted.

Him having an after death kill did not hamper scum. You had three scum, one bodyguard, and one untargetable. You were decently protected against killing roles. The only reason scum made it to lylo and stood a chance of winning was because of Melmond so I dont see how this was imbalanced for scum.

B-S! Hell, I could have slid to LyLo without the extra kills. I'm not worried about his fucking kills, I'm worried about the setup-fucking. I guess it serves me right for trying to "outguess the mod," but I played the way I do: helping town.

[Whiskers]

Someday I'd like to play a Upick where I actually get to fucking pick. I always replace into these and I usually get shitty roles. this one wasnt-- Ascetic is actually kind of a good role for me, it lets me play.
I'm mostly just mad about how it turned out-- on the other hoof, I'm happy to see other players' more thoughtful critiques on the game.

[Whiskers]

Wasn't a bad idea if I automatically lose by NOT doing so (or, "Let's lynch Whiskers").

Yeah, it's "fun," but since you can't win anymore, you're just fucking with us. The opportunity to be a dick is the only incentive you have to stick around.

Not sure what you mean by "pulling" SK. I wish I got to "draw" SK more often, I really like that role. It would have made a lot more sense to attach the "Ascetic" modifier to.

Oh, and that's the other thing. I wasn't a fucking "Godfather". I didn't give out false investigative reports. I couldn't be investigated at all. That's about 100 times more scummy-- and then I don't even have a name to back it up with, I have to go slogging through the wiki to come up with something to claim because "Godfather" is a scum role. That's like naming a Vig the SK, or naming a Mason the Goon.

[Whiskers]

You might as well roll random modkills. The fact that I "put up a good fight and almost won it" doesn't make me feel it was balanced, it makes me feel cheated. In a game that didn't go out of it's way to fuck it's players, this would have been a win I don't feel like I lost fairly. It is endlessly infuriating.

Again, sorry if you disagree but it's just a measly Upick game after all.

And, really, "It's just Carbon-14, after all," "It's just a mini normal, after all"
I guess I don't understand how you pick out this category to be somehow less valuable than the other games. "It's just a game" would make sense, but "it's just a u-pick" doesn't. It's not a Micro, games so tiny that they're over in a day, and so swingy that it's anybody's game. It's not a marathon, where there's no time for balance and revision, where players are as likely as not to troll in gameplay, where you never spend hours and hours building a case on a player.
Is the idea that, "It's just a u-pick," so it's necessarily not-balanced?
After-death SK does look like a fun role to play. But I'd argue that it limits the amount of fun the other players have. In those ways, it is like a Game-ending Jester.

[Whiskers]

@esurio: I don't understand the numbers, but everyone keeps saying them.

@inte: I'll concede that.