for having a fallacious sn.
1371: Futurama Mafia! (Game Over!)
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Eidolon Goon
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Eidolon Goon
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Eidolon Goon
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Eidolon Goon
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so we already outed two major characters? not really feeling the mass-claim for that reason. futurama has a lot of characters so it doesn't seem like it would be that hard to fake one. we're handing up mafia our power roles and i have some suspicions of people who pushed this without much reason and/or people who avoided the issue.
i'll be able to respond more tomorrow. not sure about the acomist thing yet but i don't think we should rush to a lynch.-
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Eidolon Goon
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Okay. So there were two main points of interest from yesterday that can help distinguish affiliations: the mass claim and the acomist wagon.
Mass-claim:
DBG brought it up and she was townie. (not sure why she died... possibly to dissuade people from lynching on the wagon or possible to dissuade people from lynching off the wagon. i'll have to iso her to see who she suspected.)
Venmars reaction seems okay. straightforward response.
Angrypidgeons reaction to venmar and acomist sounds townie. guess he was implying he supported a massclaim.
NumberQ - null
Rapidcanyon - typical meta response. Analytical. Null.
Blastoide- Why do you tell venmar to comment but don't comment yourself? I found this shady but then you gave a more detailed analysis later, so null. character claim has me thinking town though. To more experienced players of MS, is it common here for mafia to get major characters as fake claims?
Vijay - Ehhh. I don't really like this post. Trying hard. Slightly scummy.
Roflcopter - i like his response better. seemed easy and he also made a decision with the acomist thing to go with it.
Acomist wagon:
Angrypidgeon seems town.
Acomist is an instigator and there are probably mainly towns on his wagon.
Toonfighter- quoted acomist & angrypidgeon. were you trying to imply that angrypidgeon's sarcasm was the truth? i find it odd that you post that, not vote him, and then end up voting acomist without analysis on the situation. slightly scummy.
Venmars reaction in post 52 seems scummy. He goes against angrypidgeon without stating anything about the actual case. Could possibly know that acomist is townie and doesn't want to take a side too quickly while still sounding like he's saying something useful.
Vijay - responds on the massclaim issue but avoids acomist comments.
Cheery dog- I really don't like his 92. He's adding momentum to the wagon without offering much analysis on the situation or placing his vote.
numberQ - the mistake hammer was odd. Something seems genuine about him. the hammer was too reckless to be scum.
Sooo we've got
Possible Scum: Venmar, toonfighter, cheery dog, to a lesser extent vijay
Town: Angrypidgeon, numberq, blastoid
Undecided on rapid and roflcopter.
Vote: Venmar-
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Eidolon Goon
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In post 131, Venmar wrote:In post 128, Eidolon wrote:
Venmars reaction in post 52 seems scummy. He goes against angrypidgeon without stating anything about the actual case. Could possibly know that acomist is townie and doesn't want to take a side too quickly while still sounding like he's saying something useful.
- I'm sorry I don't understand why you're bringing up this issue NOW rather than THEN. It looks awfully like you're trying to make me look bad now that you know what Acosmist flipped rather than trying to make me look bad when his alignment was unknown. That alone is fishy because it looks like you have been waiting for his flip so you could pin me for a mild response I made... why did you mention this one thing rather than address my case that I made right before Acosmist has been hammered?
Rapidcanyon's first post of the day is bad, I don't like it when people open up with night kill speculation. It doesn't benefit town to speculate on possible powers involved in the kill. Add on the fact you haven't been helpful at all the first day, this is just a bad sign for me. I agree with what Roflcopter has said about you, and you should nameclaim next and popcorn it to someone else that you think is scum.
Why does it matter when i brought it up? The point still remains. If i remember correctly i didn't have much time when the first day was going on so i just did a quick skim. I didn't expect a hammer so quickly so i probably would have mentioned it at some point. Besides, it's useful to go over the first dp with the information on the flip. Why would you try and dissuade that?
The fact of the matter is that acomist died really early and i'm trying to figure out what happened. You put him at l-1 with rehashed arguments that don't seem to align AT ALL with your post 52.
So. what were you trying to accomplish with that post of yours? What are you trying to accomplish with this post? You are ignoring my argument to make some defensive attack on me.
@ Roflcopter, i would like to explore toonfighter & cheerydog as well, but venmar popped out as most suspicious to me.-
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Eidolon Goon
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Another question to venmar, you seem to have suspected rapidcanyon yesterday and are still going after him. why did you put acomist at l-1 using others reasoning if you had your own suspicions about rapidcanyon? Why follow the bandwagon instead of go with your own reads?
Cheery dog, what was your opinion on yesterdays wagon? Do you have any suspicions right now?-
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Eidolon Goon
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In post 143, roflcopter wrote:
is there something quantifiable that makes venmar the most suspicious of the three, or is it gut?
Hmm, i suppose it was mainly the one comment that stuck out as particularly odd. Because it was inconsistent with the rest of his play, he seemed especially opportunistic. The fact that he goes from bashing the veracity of the case to using it for a vote doesn't sit well at all with me. my other two suspects showed similar opportunistic behaviors but to a lesser extent. gut has a bit to do with it as well as that tends to shape my reads on a whole.
what do you think of my case on him and his responses so far?-
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Eidolon Goon
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Eidolon Goon
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In post 149, Toon Fighter wrote:In post 128, Eidolon wrote:Okay. So there were two main points of interest from yesterday that can help distinguish affiliations: the mass claim and the acomist wagon.
Acomist wagon:
Toonfighter- quoted acomist & angrypidgeon. were you trying to imply that angrypidgeon's sarcasm was the truth? i find it odd that you post that, not vote him, and then end up voting acomist without analysis on the situation. slightly scummy.
In my second post I was confirming my vote on AP, giving his post as a 'justification'. Afterwards, I voted Acosmist based on that post of his. I quoted it to reaffirm my vote. I don't understand why you are attacking me based on such small things -.- His overall angerness + his refusal to nameclaim made me want to vote him too.
one person who is emitting scum vibes for me today is rofl. He immediately starts attacking rc for his nightkill speculation (which is not bad on itself, and could be useful), and spends the next few posts just defending Venmar, with no evidence whatsoever. scumbuddy much?vote: roflcopter
also, rc, you forgot to name the next claim.
I never attacked you, i merely stated my suspicions.
I didn't realize that you had your vote up for AP, so that quoting post makes a bit more sense now. But i still don't particularly like it, or the rest of your posts, as there was little justification. that quote by Acomist that you used to vote him in and of itself isn't really scummy. What was scummy about that quote?
Why do you vote for roflcopter and say he is venmars scumbuddy? Doesn't that connection rely on venmar being scum?
Venmar's claim is really townie. like..reallytown. I'm considering unvoting him for that alone but i'd rather leave it until he commits to some responses. I'm still having difficulty deciphering the validity of character claims here on MS.
PEDIT: Rofl, why is venmar town?-
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Eidolon Goon
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In post 156, roflcopter wrote:
gut, and dgb's townread on him
would you switch to a toon fighter wagon?
I'm considering it.
Does anyone have mod meta? Is that type of analysis allowed here?
I still find venmars behavior more scummy but his char. claim is compelling.-
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Eidolon Goon
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why do you ask me that without putting a vote up yourself?
unvote, vote: toonfighter
i can get down on this regardless. venmar should still answer the questions directed at him but i'll leave him alone for now.-
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Eidolon Goon
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ROFL, how am i town and ap scum bussing?
Why not you bussing, fishing out to see if the case has much traction to gauge if you should buss?
I see a decent case on TF but i wouldn't say 100%
I've seen someone do that before as town, recently - vote for the person that is accused of being the others buddy.
most of it is still pretty scummy. but how are you so sure?-
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Eidolon Goon
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In post 177, AngryPidgeon wrote:In post 161, Eidolon wrote:I've seen someone do that before as town, recently - vote for the person that is accused of being the others buddy.
Oh Hi. Im in the thread y'know.
But the difference is that the Venmar wagon was going choo-choo at the time and the Rofl wagon doesn't really have potential.
lmao. i was talking about someone else. you know.. a completed game.
here: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p4272767
i find cd's tangion vote a little cop-outish. ap, why do you say he is town?
@mod, can we get a prod or replacement for tangion?
just did a very quick skim, will respond more later.-
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Eidolon Goon
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Okay, I'm leaning town on venmar now. His responses were town enough that i'd just prefer to drop those points for the time being.
RC, it's not necessarily that venmar has a major character. It's perfectly plausible to think that mafia has major characters as a fake claim. It was farnsworth in particular. If I had to guess one character that had to be town, it would be him, even moreso than fry. or maybe equal in towniness. But I don't want to say much else about this right now.
About the whole AP, Rofl thing... i think AP is townie.. but it's not very useful to talk about connections until after the flip.
@ Blastoide: I was the person who said that i thought numberQ was town. I perhaps should have explained myself more thoroughly. It wasn't just the hammer that made me think town. It was some of his other responses (such as asking about the wagon on him) that gave me that impression. But it was moreso a hunch than anything tangible. His point about him not being town for the hammer was odd. Especially because he's pretty much offered no more analysis than this. So i'm kind of null on him atm.
Kind of null on RC too. He's strayed cloesly to his townmeta so far, but there's a certain way that he gets when he's town that i haven't seen yet.
I still don't like Cheery Dog. I don't think AP's analysis really shows that he's town. I could see town or scum being honest in their reaction to being called useless. Scum has every reason to be honest, or at least to go with their normal reaction, in those type of situations. I don't like his vote on tangion, his justification in post 175, or his minimal analysis.-
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Eidolon Goon
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RC, it is mainly his claim. I'm by no means positive that he's town, but his response to me seemed sincere enough, (for instance his admittance to stretching the truth a bit, and his explanation for his fos on you day 1) that i'm okay with backing off of pressure for now in light of his claim.
So.. you want to lynch TF, based on other players behaviors, yet don't want to vote him because venmar is your bigger scumread? That's odd.
how did he contradict himself twice?-
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Eidolon Goon
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[/quote]In post 218, rapidcanyon wrote:Edit for quoting errors.
In post 215, Eidolon wrote:RC, it is mainly his claim. I'm by no means positive that he's town, but his response to me seemed sincere enough, (for instance his admittance to stretching the truth a bit, and his explanation for his fos on you day 1) that i'm okay with backing off of pressure for now in light of his claim.
He never really addressed the core of either of our arguments.
In post 215, Eidolon wrote:
So.. you want to lynch TF, based on other players behaviors, yet don't want to vote him because venmar is your bigger scumread? That's odd.
Something seems off to me. Just when we were about to pressure Venmar, a counterwagon for TF pops out of nowhere and you jump onto it despite your first pressure target not giving sufficient answers to your and my questions.
1) He disagreed with DGB initially but later voted Acosmist for reasons that DGB mentioned.
2) He chastised AP for making a case out of nothing but later used that case himself to vote against Acosmist.
- What about his character claim is so compelling?
- If he admits to stretching the truth, that means he is town? I don't understand...
So, yeah, part of me wants to vote TF but the fact that pressure is dissipating on Venmar for no reason smells funny and makes me want to stick with Venmar.
oh, i thought you meant that his responses had contradictions.
Anyways, i unvoted for venmar before he even responded. TF was my second scumread. Professor farnswarth is the brains of the operation on the protagonist-side of the show. I'm not going to say anymore on why i think his character is town. i'd rather hold off on pressuring him any further. Why do you single me out for switching to TF and not AP?-
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Eidolon Goon
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In post 216, Cheery Dog wrote:In post 206, roflcopter wrote:cheery dog's vote for tangion is awful. why vote the obviously inactive (not lurking, completely inactive) guy over taking a position on either of the leading wagons?
In post 202, Cheery Dog wrote:Sorry but why are we voting Toon Fighter because you think you've found his buddies? What makes it more likely that it's bussing and not buddying?
this is a misrepresentation of the votes for toon fighter. nobody's vote (as far as i can tell) have anything to do with "finding his buddies," they have to do with tf being scum. the idea of someone being his buddy is a conclusion drawnfromknowing tf is scum, not a factor driving that conclusion.
because he is still lurking, he had come onto the site since the start of day 2 and hasn't posted.
The accusations that have been flying around look to me more that you've found someone else scummy and because you're voting TF, you've found that they must be buddies.
It would also be that I don't see TF being this obv100%scum from his 4 posts he has made.
As for the bolded quote, this is not what you initially said.
First post: You are voting toonfighter because you think you've spotted his scumbuddy.
Second post: you think that another player being scummy makes them TF's buddy.
Those aren't the same thing. Please explain more in depth what you mean and why you came to that conclusion.
I agree that the first is bad in theory but it is not what is happening in this situation. Actually, part of the case on TF is that he did exactly that.
The second isn't inherently wrong, but it it is also not what is happening.
What has been happening is that a case on TF has developed, and some people are throwing around accusations about buddies based off of responses about TF. The scumminess that they suspect is mainly based on TF's alignment, and not (wholly) independent of it.
Your interpretation of this seems twisted and contrived.
Please tell me, who exactly is suspecting people for the wrong reasons, and why?-
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Eidolon Goon
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Also, cheery dog, do you think that tangion is scum? do you think that your vote will get him to come back and talk? who are your suspects among the active players?
RC, the fact that mafia are potentially given fake claims is not the point. if a character fits much more into the town category than the potential fake claim category, (which, he's honestly one of the only characters in the show that does) i see no reason to go after them immediately, before some flips have given us more information into the game. i see no need to lynch venmar today unless there is something very overwhelmingly scum about him, which there certainly hasn't been.-
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Eidolon Goon
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i never "alluded" to having any info.
you are just pulling shit out of your ass to try to make me look bad (because i mentioned you missing something in your town play, huh?)
i'm simply saying that venmars character is convincingly townie and if you are too dense to understand why then i'm sorry but i'm not going to ruin that for your benefit.
I know the case on him. i made it. theres a time when you give it up if something tells you otherwise.-
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Eidolon
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Eidolon Goon
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sigh. i actually am leaning slight town on rc but it's kinda hard to tell right now.
as town he is usually two things: very stubborn, and very analytical.
his density isn't a scum tell for him, imo. but his logic is lacking a bit compared to normal which might allude to scum motivation.
RC, you don't see the inherent flaw in telling AP to vote for the busser rather than the bussee?-
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Eidolon Goon
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In post 258, rapidcanyon wrote:Angry, your vote simply makes no sense from a town perspective. You initially say that you find Rofl suspicious, but when it seems like Rofl is actually a viable lynch candidate, you suddenly find him town and go towards his side. As scum though it makes perfect sense.
I don't think TF is scum at this point. Angry's and Rofl's reactions make no sense if he was scum unless all 3 are scum which is unlikely.
Right now, I am still going to go with Rofl. Case later. We should lynch him today.
You know rc, opinions can change. especially when someone does something scummy.
you have been acting scummy even though i'm slight town leaning on you right now.
How does angry & rofls reaction mean that TF is not scum?-
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Eidolon Goon
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1. OMGUSing everyone who calls you scummy.
2. ignoring logic to push people into actions (telling people to vote the busser rather than the busse)
3. pushing info about characters and roles to be outed.
These actions are all scummy. I just happen to know that they are normal for you as town, so i don't find you particularly scummy.
"If you think Rofl is bussing, let's lynch rofl"
"i don't think bussee is scum"
Rather than to push me to do something that is inherently flawed from MY perspective, why don't you tell me why TF is town and why ROFL is scum, independently of whether or not someone is bussing.
Because if i think someone might be bussing, which i haven't even said yet, as it's more of a very SLIGHT suspicion than anything certain, there is no logical reason to vote the busser than the busse. One is dependent on the other being scum.-
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Eidolon Goon
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In post 304, rapidcanyon wrote:Also, question for Eidolon, did anything negative happen to you last night?
Not that i am aware of. Let me ask the mod something first. I'd suggest NOT mentioning who targeted me.
Anyways, lmao, how do i ignore your questions? I. wasnt. online. for. the. last. 12. hours.
I had to go immediately after i answered you because i got a movie to watch w/ my bf. (the devil inside - decent horror movie. doesn't live up to my high expectations since watching paranormal activities and insidious)
Anyways. Here's why TF is scum: look at his reaction to pressure!!!! He didn't say ANYTHING except give his character claim. If you weren't suspicious of him before, doesn't that kind of ring a bell? I'm sorry but there is no way that that is town. It's someone who is mad he got bussed by a partner most likely and is not saying anymore to dodge being connected to someone else.
And here's why ROFL might be town: he softclaimed a confirmable role. Him "bussing" TF is dependent on TF flipping scum. Unless he flips, theres never a way to be 100% sure that he's scum. If TF flips, and his role doesn't come through, i'll look at him.
Now, tell me again why we should lynch ROFL over TF? How exactly am i playing stupid? Because I'm not following your every move? WTF? your moves are inherently flawed and you haven't showed me why rofl is scum. Your only reasoning has been "responses to the tf situation"
and then you go to say it might be AP... and then you say it's ME AND AP YET ARE STILL PUSHING A ROFL LYNCH. WTF??
You see how this doesn't line up.
I wouldn't believe you except for the claim.
I suppose if you can confirm who visited me (later on) it will be okay. But i don't see how bender is a watcher. do you have role justification?-
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Eidolon Goon
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Booo. their lack of music and the build up and the still cameras are awesome! especially 2 and 3.
I've seen it at my old site though i realize that it's not something common. i'd assume less common here than at my old site because that was more of a role madness type of place.
It's called lookout there, which makes more sense with bender being a theif...-
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Eidolon Goon
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In post 298, rapidcanyon wrote:Are you seriously stupid cheerydog? There are 4 scummy people who parked their voted on toonfighter for ABSOLUTELY no reason.
Eidolon for instance asks me why I thought Venmar was scummier. I explain it to her and she does NOTHING. She doesn't switch her vote. She just parks it on TF for absolutely no reason despite the case on Venmar being infinitely stronger. She isn't dense or stupid as town.She is scum. She, Cheerydog, and Venmar.
LOL. so far you have called me, cheerydog, venmar, rofl, and AP scum.
which ones are it rc?
That is pretty much everyone who has been posting and about half of the playerlist.
When half of the game disagrees with you, maybe it means you need to reevaluate, rather than them being scum. Who do you want to lynch today and what is your reasoning on them?
PEDIT: venmar i pretty much agree with you on rc.-
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Eidolon Goon
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Re TF thing: there were other reasons but i already posted them. I'm just saying that if you hadn't considered it before, there is a big clue.
RE Venmar: i explained about 5 times why i laid off on venmar. It wasn't a "Vague banality". Sorry if you perceive it that way but i'm not going to explain myself again.
Re "what situation": the whole situation of the pressure on you and your pressure on others. I already said you often play like this so a lot of those behaviors aren't a scum tell for you. But some of your play has been opportunistic and unusual for you:
The fact that you haven't made a case on who you have been going after, and that you gave in to a TF vote even though you obviously don't believe in it, has me suspicious. It's like you just got angry and then gave up. where has the analysis gone?
Yes, i know you made a case for venmar, but in the last 4 or 5 pages or so you've been going after ROFL with no reasoning, and haven't given reasoning on the other players that you supposedly suspect, besides saying that they are "stupid morons"-
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Eidolon Goon
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Sigh, that response is so negative i don't even feel like responding. i will later i guess.
But, again, seems like you are just giving up for no reason, which isn't town you at all. (ie the i'd rather lynch him than me) I've seen you handle more heat than this before and you don't give in like that....
I think cheery dog is scummy too though.
Re the TF thing: the clue was what i already explained about his response.
Let's go another direction right now. Do you think TF is town? Why?
I'm gonnaunvoteuntil i can reread and try to make more clarity of everything.-
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Eidolon Goon
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I like the case on cheery. still reading. will probably be able to post some better analysis later tonight.
rofl, what is wrong with the cheery case?-
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Eidolon Goon
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In post 345, Cheery Dog wrote:In post 343, AngryPidgeon wrote:
Bachelor #1Cheery, if Rapid flips town, how would that change your reads one me, Eidolon, rofl, and TF?
Your scumpoints would probably go up, for getting him to paraphase his role and also you still haven't talked about #173 like you were going to
Eidolon would increase in towniness for saying the rapid has acted like this as town before.
rofl would still be town, as his posts still seem town motivated to me, they just weren't seeming as town motivated when he was one of my active player suspicions.
TF hasn't interacted with rapid yet, so I'm unsure about him, probably going to stay the same.
Pedit: and Rapid's case on me isn't the exact same thing except reversed?
what does this mean? who are you suspicious of and why?-
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Eidolon Goon
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i see some problems in rc's case after reading it more carefully though. i'm still leaning town on him and scum on cheery though, mainly due to cheerys reactions. i don't see rc bussing cheery at this point.-
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Eidolon Goon
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RC, you really annoy me with how you say i'm scum in like every game we play together. just because i don't follow your plans doesn't make me scum. i catch scum great on my own, thank you very much. just look at the game where i replaced you. so you saying im scum because i havent been "following (your flawed) logic" and i need to do this, this and this in order to be town is bs and you know it.
stop bullying other players. it gets you no where. we've gone over this already.
anyways, i'm fairly confident in rofl and ap town reads. i'm still confused about rc though i'm leaning town. venmar and blastoide town.
i think cheery and tf are both suspicious.
Cheery's posts are just confusing to me and i really don't understand his perspective. but that doesn't necessarily relate to his alignment.
I think Tf is a stronger scumread and i'd rather wagon with my town reads than with my confused read.
they both will give us info on the flip
vote: toonfighter-
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Eidolon Goon
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RC, i'll go over the flaws in your cheerydog case if you like though i don't think it's exactly necessary.
Basically, i wonder why you refuse to lynch TF?
What makes him town?
If you think AP is town, and you think rofl is bussing his buddy, then what is the flaw in going with tf?
Here is why TF is a stronger scumread: He pretty much admits to being scum because he gave up. He didn't even try to show that he is town. He didn't say a thing. People were saying they caught him and his scumread was full-proof. The fact that he said NOTHING about it means that he knows it's true.
You've played a lot of games with me and you know when they give up like that, they are scum.
Cheery Dog isn't as surefire. Sure, he seems scummy, but a lot of your case on him is wifom, and he tried, which means that he possibly believes what he's saying.-
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Eidolon Goon
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i already explained, rc. you just seem to ignore what i say to call me scum because i don't succumb to your bullying.-
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Eidolon Goon
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what did i ignore?
wtf are you going on about?
You are trying to force me into voting with you and saying i'm not town (and you'll make a case on me) if i don't do things your way. it's bullying. like i said 'll be back later.-
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Eidolon Goon
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Sigh. I'm having trouble keeping up with this game.
I'll try to get completely caught up today. I seem to see a lot of repeating arguments and a lot of confusing posts so i ask people to try not to repeat themselves unless absolutely necessary.
In post 401, rapidcanyon wrote:Well, out of all the players on the site, I think you are the most fun to play with. I am just disappointed that you think I am bullying. W/e, I'll replace out if you want. I don't want to but I'll do it.
Pedit: you didn't answer why you thought Venmar was town. You never gave a case for voting TF besides he didn't defend himself despite the fact that I asked you a 1000 times.
I am not saying you aren't town if you don't do things "my way." I am saying, as town, you usually vote for the most likely scum. I explained why Cheery is our best lead. You ignored it and voted TF based on about nothing. This isn't your usual town behavior. That is why I think you are scum. You also forgot about Venmar way too easily.
My main argument for TF was laid out in my posts 128 & 140. It was his odd behavior on day one that stuck out for me. His response to me was strange. He implied that i was attacking him when i wasn't = scummy. He calls rofl bussing venmar scum but votes rofl = scummy. His attempts at jsutifications for his actions seemed scummy. When he came back and just gave his name claim, it was really scummy. I'm not saying that it's just that he lurked, but that he didn't make any attempt to explain himself, any attempt to say he'd be back later, didn't give any emotion in that post. it was just a cold claim. I don't see why a town would do taht when they are under pressure. It seemed like someone who got caught. I've seen tons of scum who get caught and just choose to not say anything. But I guess since then he said he will make a post and i'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
I explained about a billion times why i think venmar is town. I'm sorry if you can't accept that but the reasoning isn't poor.
I'm at the point where i focus more on the reactions to the cases than the cases themselves. Remember my case on whiskers in chosen? I was sure it was an airtight case. So sure that i didn't even want to hear the response. Maybe if i waited and heard the response i would have realized that whiskers was town and looked at mcstab. It's the same thing with venmar. His initial response to me WAS scummy, but he started seeming town after that. He seemed like he believed what he was saying. That mixed with his claim was enough for me to let go.
And yes i think cheery is scummy but it's not as strong as TF because he's actually trying and i'm having a tough time distinguishing between his affiliation vs. just his natural playstyle. Plus like i said, i'd rather wagon with two town reads than one not as sure read. But i'll take a look at his responses since i last posted and see if i can get any more clues. I'll show you some of the flaws in your case a little later. I'm at work right now so i'm not sure how much free time i'll have, but i'll get to it at some point today.
Oh and i def. don't want you to replace out.-
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Eidolon Goon
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In post 409, PiggyGal15 wrote:Venmar - While I do find his play to be slightly scummy for earlier on, later posts have made me think he's town. What I do find scummy is the wagon on him. Or more so, the lack there of. What happened to it? Even better question, why does that first question never get answered? Every time someone brings it up, no one acknowledges it. I'll do some in depth reading tomorrow as to just who started leading everyone away from Venmar, and more importantly, who kept them away, and why. I have a feeling scum are written all over that.
what do you mean by this? you say you think venmar is town, and then you say that whoever lead away from his wagon is scum? wtf?
And then why do you say this and then vote RC, who kept going after venmar?
Explain. Your post here has contradiction written all over it.-
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Eidolon
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Eidolon Goon
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havingfitz, what you bring up is interesting. quite odd that he did that though i wouldn't necessarily call it surefire. could have been a legit mistake. as for your number one, you say he was suspicious during your readthrough, but don't say why. what was suspicious? also, why do you have an fos on AP?
RC, here, here's the holes i find in your case.
In 236, he says "If we think rolf is bussing, then the bussee must also be scum, because that's how bussing works. What makes rolf the better target when both of them could be town?" So, that means, he should be voting for TF. Or even if he didn't consider bussing, he should be voting for his initial suspicion, Rofl. Instead, he votes me. The reasoning doesn't add up. He simply voted me because he didn't want to vote for Rofl. When rofl had no wagon going on him, Cheery had no problem distancing, but when it did, he chooses to vote for me because by Cheery's reasoning, TF must be scum. It doesn't add up. He simply saw me as an easy target because Angry was suspicious of me. His vote doesn't align with who he finds suspicions. Of course, he fabricates reasons for finding me suspicious after I confront him and demand that he give them - but we'll get to that later. Let's go through the rest of his initial post first.
You're assuming that he should think one thing when he says that he doesn't. he said he thinks both of them could be town, so you saying that he should be voting tf there is invalid.
First off, I haven't been rolefishing. Secondly, a question can be asked nicely in order to get a response. Why throw in a vote? His method of voting and giving shoddy reasoning points to a scum that wants to add his vote to a townie without drawing too much attention to himself. And he would have passed too if I hadn't initially mistaken him for a stupid townie and called him out on it.
You were rolefishing though. I know you do that as town, you are obsessed with prying info out of people as town, so it's not a scumtell, but you were rolefishing.
So his reasoning wasn't shoddy. Pretty much, you show some contradictions but for they weren't full proof by any means.
That being said, i did this for your benefit because you asked. I DO think cheery has done some scummy things, which i will post a bit later, but i don't think the case is as strong as TF.
RC, why is TF town?-
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Eidolon Goon
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Okay, i'm taking a look at cheery's iso to try and pinpoint what seems off to me.
overall, i feel that his reads and his leads are a bit lacking. His vote on tangion. He moves it to RC, for reason of rolefishing, which i do understand, but it seems a bit... tunneled. He doesn't really give reads on much else. the only thing i could really find was when he said pretty much that all the active players are town and by poe, tangion was scum. that was bad. He suspects rofl and number q.
I don't like his post 299. He writes a long summary of posts but he really doesn't analyse them, which makes it seem kind of as a fluffy reason to cast suspicion on RC.
Post 321 is off. His response to AP. He takes the joke for serious. I find that slightly scummy, although i've done that as town before too, so it's not a strong read.
I do like some of his posts though. I can see where he's coming from in the way RC has been reacting towards TF. Buuut....
Cheery Dog, if you think TF is scum due to the way RC is defendng him, don't you think it's beneficial for a TF lynch? I don't see RC being lynched today.
I can see a tf/ cheery team and think either will be OKAY today, though right now i prefer TF. Pretty much, EVERYONE is accusing someone else of bussing tf or acting strange in regards to him... but i'd like to hear his response first.
I wish we could get a votecount.-
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Eidolon Goon
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so you think TF, havingfitz, rapid, angrypidgeon and cheery dog are all scum?
in what order?-
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Eidolon Goon
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how am i missrepping you?
you are the one who said to lynch this list of 5 people. And you basically agreed with me and answered my question regarding it, while saying i was wrong. you think those 5 people are scummy to varying degrees.-
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Eidolon Goon
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yeah but you didn't say anything about those variances until i asked you... you just said lynch all these people... so your roadmap was basically a free-for-all.-
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Eidolon Goon
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This is why i'm unsure on you, RC:
Pro-town:
- playing MOSTLY to your town meta. Headstrong, passionate, long cases, hard pushes, etc.
- you claim makes enough sense. I'm not 100 on it, but i can believe it. Idk, I could see a mafia watcher, though it's unlikely, especially in a small setup. I haven't seen it here yet. Knowing your style and how you like to get roles out, it seems like you really believed your claim would help you.
- you've been giving strong opinions and a lot of opinions. You haven't really been going back and forth on any issue even in the face of adversity.
Pro-Scum:
- Your defense of TF. For a long time you refused to explain why you thought he was town, and your only reason for scum rofl was "his reponse to tf."
- The way you gave in and voted tf pretty much saying "i'd rather lynch him than me." I certainly understand the reasoning behind this, it just doesn't fit what i know of your play. You are much more headstrong than this. Why, at the time, were you so convinced you were going to be lynched, with just two votes on you, especially with your claim? Thinking back on what i just said about your claim, it seems to be contradictory behavior.
I do think that TF is a good wagon and don't understand your density on the issue. I thought about responding more in depth to your points but i'd just be repeating myself. I don't think either side will change so there's no point in rehashing the same thing over and over. I guess it's up to everyone else as to where the game will go this day and at this point keeping posts low will allow other townies to make a better decision.
I'll consider cheery dog though. I do think he is a decent option. I prefer TF due to a higher scum read and higher associative tells. But i will compromise with Cheery if it comes to that.
Btw, I get annoyed at you once in a while, but i still enjoy playing with you-
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Eidolon Goon
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In post 469, AngryPidgeon wrote:In post 459, roflcopter wrote:add havingfitz to the list of people to lynch after i'm dead
ITT: The team is probably Rofl, Eid, and RC and Im getting the eternal hell trolled out of me.
That would be epic-
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Eidolon Goon
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well that throws my venmar theory out the door.
i still think other players have been more suspicious than him though..-
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Eidolon Goon
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Now that our gunsmith is outed, i guess there's no reason not to say.
I thought prof. farnsworth was most likely to have an investigative role.
But seeing that ROFL has one (and he gave it to scruffy no less..) prof. farnsworth is more likely to be a fake claim, or at least less likely to be an investigative role.
That being said, i'm still interested in both cheery and piggy before venmar, though i might look back over his iso just to make sure.-
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Eidolon Goon
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Well, theres 2 town roles that could fit with having a gun.
So far, we have a gunsmith, watcher, and presumably one other role that visited me last night. I don't know whether it was town or mafia role but for the sake of role balance speculation, let's say it's a town role.
So there's probably only one town role with a gun, if any. Does calculon fit that? Idk. i'm not going to try outguessing the mod anymore.
But considering the other roles in the game, it's unlikely. And looking at the rest of TF's posts, i'd say he's likely scum.
In post 492, PiggyGal15 wrote:No, not at all. Hence my suspicion that one of the gunsmith/watcher is going to turn up scum.
Please explain this. How does gunsmith not being a straight-up cop mean that one of them is scum?
Also, at the site where i come from, watcher was always considered a protective, rather than investigative, role. But seeing as how it's less likely to be outted at this site, watcher could make an investigator.
They could both be town, though i'd feel more comfortable about it if TF flips scum and after RC catches a scum with his role.-
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Eidolon Goon
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i see what you're saying. i guess my point is that balance-wise, it is possible to have both.
if you are both town, mafia is probably pretty powerful.
maybe a 4 person team, or two power roles.
though i can see a tf/rc scumteam. i'm not sure yet.
you think rc is scum, rofl? do you think gunsmith/watcher combo is possible?
PEDIT: yes i've seen it. why?-
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Eidolon Goon
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"your big ugly face is as dumb as a butt!"
"why does everything taste purple?"
"i'll do what i wanna be!"
...yeah, how could i not have seen it?-
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Eidolon Goon
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In post 510, Venmar wrote:Eidolon, if you've actually seen and and actually seen what the professor does, how can you assume he would be an investigative role?
cause he's the head of planet express. he calls all the shots.
not to mention all the inventions he makes that figure stuff out, like the "what if" machine, and the sniffing scope, and the one that deciphers all languages.
rc what are you talking about? makes me think town though.-
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Eidolon Goon
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In post 541, Cheery Dog wrote:Why are you talking about possible roles of people besides the person hammered during twilight?
he asked? i'm probably wrong anyway.-
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Eidolon Goon
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Whats with that nk? Why didn't rofl/rc die? Trying to get us to lynch one of the power roles? that seems useless. Maybe one of them is scum. Don't see why they would keep rofl alive either way because he can clear/incriminate people if he's town.
Hmmm.
We have the mafia lynch to work with, so that should give us some clues.
IIRC, cheery dog seemed to have some connections to tf.
Have to read over dp 1 for more clues.-
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Eidolon Goon
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well, i'm vanilla. wtf. role explosion.
piggy you said you don't know who tangion targeted night one. you should ask the mod and get that clarified asap. also, why did you vig kill blastoide over one of the people that town was suspecting?
either rapid is lying or its a piggy/cheery team and piggy blocked or rolecopped me night one.
rapid, why did you watch me night one?-
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Eidolon Goon
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uhhhh..... O.o
like...i just... that was a bad move if you are telling the truth, rc.
why did you think you were going to be mislynched?
i have to wrap my head around this a bit more. i'll be back later.-
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Eidolon Goon
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just real quick while i have a minute: Venmar should not claim today. i'm about 99% certain that he is town.-
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Eidolon Goon
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Okay. now that i have some decent time, let's analyse this.
AngryPidgeon, Cheery Dog, Eidolon, numberQ, rapidcanyon, roflcopter, PiggyGal15, Venmar, havinfitz
Conftown: AP
Obtown: Rofl, venmar
Prob town: piggy, cheery. i'm not completely sold on both of these, but their claims seem to fit their characters, and we prob shouldn't lynch possible pr's today.
That leaves us with me, numberQ, Rapid, and havingfitz.
Lynch any of these today and we have a likely 50/50 shot of hitting scum. (even better odds if you lynch someone other than me.)
On Rapid: I'm slightly conflicted on him. He's been acting a little out there both dp's but that can be his playstyle at times regardless of alignment. He was defending TF to the core, which isn't something i know he would do if he was scum. He could have been trying something risky, who knows.
About his claim. It's just bad, and i don't consider him a bad player. His results outed a bunch of pr's. If i counted correctly in my skim, he had 3 votes on him when he claimed watcher. He seemed to have been taking heat, but not enough to warrant fake claiming a watcher, imo (though i'm not sure anything would warrant that.)
Havingfitz - he's lurking, but i remember his post struck me as rather townie last dp. Of course, that isn't much.
NumberQ - another lurker.
I think we should pick between numberQ and RC for the lynch today.
I'm gonna do an iso of rc later and see what i can come up with.
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