inbetweeners mafia Game Over - Bully for you!

[Sotty7]

Furcolow

Beep bep

[Sotty7]

Vote: Furcolow

Really, it hasn't been that long...

[Sotty7]

I didn’t even realize you were in this game. You are Town, right? I have to think you are since you voted Furc … that’s an obvious Town move. Can this be the game we finally are on the same side, you don’t have to replace, and we destroy scum?

Hi!

Of course I am town. I would very much like to tag this up and run the scum into the ground. I'm on a quest to find my game again, renewed vigor and everything. This is going to be good, I can feel it.

PV, did I pick right?

Spoiler: Nope.

@MOI: Have you played with Furc recently?

Ick. Question, no vote, no commitment. Just ick.

Come on, Lanthir's too douchey to be scum.

Okay... Better. I was worried for a moment there.

Thanks xis I'll check it out.

I'm gonna be really interested in your analysis from that game list provided.

[Sotty7]

I'm trying to work out what you're trying to achieve. Furc is a weird choice for a pressure wagon since he has a fairly defined playstyle which IIRC doesn't change that much under pressure. You have a history of defending people you know are VIs, and everyone knows Furc is a VI. I was wondering if something had happened in a recent game with you to make you think he had crossed the VI event horizon from pain in the ass to outright liability, because my previous interactions with Furc have suggested he's annoying but not especially hard to read, which would make him a bad target for a 'because he's him' wagon.

Eh. Even if furc makes for a poor "because it is him wagon" in your eyes, doesn't mean the wagon is at all pointless which is what you seem to be hinting at here. It's always good to kick off RVS with a good wagon on pretty much anyone, and your opening post seems to be trying to attack the very root of the wagon for no real reason. It was a very empty and pointless question to make it look like scum hunting, because either way the answer doesn't matter.

in relation to Furcolow's meta, which was then downsized to "Maybe just Ohne Mafia" after Sotty probed lightly. So did you read Ohne, Mr_Ree? Or were you more interested in feigning an interest in the relevant meta so you could pretend to be informed? My response to your #46 is "I have already answered that question".

The reason I made it a point to tell Mr_Ree that I wanted to hear his furc opinion was because I found it pretty strange for him to be asking for meta on him at such an early stage. Sure one, maybe two players had mentioned off hand that they wanted to lynch him before he confirmed, but the wagon got nowhere close to a lynch. The comment on meta seems very much to be an empty one, and Mr pretty much admits it is by saying he isn't going to read all those games. So why even bring up Furc's meta in the first place? I don't get it.

One thing the bothered me is his "edit" to point out that his RVS vote was oh-so spot on. I can understand making an RVS mindlessly, and seeing it when you read through the thread to make your next post. But the "edit" seems to come from a point in time where ThAdmiral has already written the post and is looking back over his tracks to double-check everything. Completely more scum-driven than town-driven. Why wouldn't he catch what he said the first time he reads through before he makes the post? Why would he want to go back and look at his RVS in the time between typing his post and submitting it if it was just a mindless RVS? I do not have answers to these questions.

This is pretty much the one thing I find scummy in the ThAdmiral case. The rest is just eh. I don't agree with his "too helpful=scum" premise but I don't think that makes him scum.

Top scum reads right now, PeregrineV - posting fluff and chasing non posters instead of commenting on in game stuffs. Fonz for his opening post and Mr_Ree for the meta situation.

Unvote, Vote: PeregrineV

[Sotty7]

I guess because no one had even asked for meta. He quoted a bunch of people saying "why furc" and then proceeded to give up a bunch of furc games. It was like he was looking for an opportunity to seem productive. And the "you fine people" thing; smacks of sucking up.
That's how it looked to me.

Seemed more like a chance to let everyone know he is an alt of someone. I can understand where your vote is coming from though. It was kinda know-it-all-ish. Still don't find it scummy though, the rest of his posting has been pretty good in my opinion.

Question for you, Zang: Why aren't you voting?

This is a good question.

[Sotty7]

I think this scummy. It seems like you are trying to support his wagon without actually being on it.

I was all ready to say "the furc wagon? But he was on that!" Then I ISO'ed Jarvis and he wasn't... So I like this point.

The list argument is just a play style preference, that's all.

[Sotty7]

Let's not have any pretence here, it was Fonz who brought up this theoretical if-you-voted-Furc line. I am not currently for his lynch.

...I may have confused myself here.

Can you explain your view point surrounding this a little more for me? Do you find Fonz scummy for this move?

I like Zang, even if I am on the opposite side of the whole Fonz v Jarvis situation. I have found all of Fonz's early posting to be extremely awkward and poor. I want to see Javis' responses before I go much further though. I do like this line of focus though.

[Sotty7]

How many votes are on MoI? He is fuckin' scum this game. Sheeping, and sucking Sotty's dick.

Who has he been sheeping? Because it's not me.

jarvis is town

Whatcha think about Fonz's vote on him?

To be fair to MoI, we have history and with how badly I have been playing in the last few games with him his reaction to me was something I was expecting. I don't feel like he was "sucking my e-dick", just responding to the fact that I have promised him not to suck in this game.

[Sotty7]

I'm pretty interested in your thoughts re: Xis is an alt, by the way. Would you mind?

Not that it really matters because he isn't trying to hide it. The fact he could pull old furc meta pretty quick, and how he offhandly talks about Fonz and Zang combine with his sept 2012 join date tells me he's an alt.

Why not save the time and avoid all the hassle?

Unvote, Vote: ThAdmiral

A combination of your constant refusal to really address this and the fact Fonz saw fit to defend you and because MoI asked

so nicely.

Plus I really liked post 103.

The xisiqomilir wagon is pretty terrible.

[Sotty7]

Because Xis doesn't completely make sense as town. See unjustified policy lynch push on Furc, poor excuse for a stance on you and Sotty. I want explanations for those before I will think of moving.

What exactly is your issue with Xis' push on furc?

Still waiting for something closely resembling content relevant to the game. Yates are you a Jester desperate to derail the ThAd scum-wagon?

Not saying I don't agree, but goading him isn't helping anyone.

Not really sure what to make of Thd's stubbornness here. I've never seen him be so unhelpful. Chewing it over.

[Sotty7]

My issue with it as I read more of MoI's posts on this page is that he couldn't find examples of Thd using "trying too hard" as scum, so it's not really a legit scum tell for him either.

[Sotty7]

Well...I agree, it is not entirely baseless, and if I was actually asked nicely rather than with the smarmy know-it-all way moi went about it and xisq followed up on

maaaaaybe

I actually would have been bothered to have a look in my past games. As sotty referenced I'm generally not like this. But fuck me moi and xisq are pushing my buttons this game.

This is terrible and scummy and my voting is really staying now.

I'm gonna read this game some more tomorrow. Tired and I seem to be drowning a little in the back and forth. Day off tomorrow though, so yay.

[Sotty7]

Sorry guys I got called into work today so no day off after all. Gonna try and catch up on what I missed now.

[Sotty7]

Sotty7 has stated the wagon on me to be "pretty terrible" (@Sotty7: Please state the reasons why you consider that to be the case).

ThAdmiral, Lanthir, Mr_Ree, Jarvis, fuc <-- all players on your wagon. Thd, Mr Ree and furc: strong, medium and weak scum reads respectively. Lanthir seems very new and his vote is a knee jerk and the more Javis' posts, the less I like him. Terrible wagon.

What are your thoughts on Yates and Jarvis?

I thought Jarvis was town earlier, not as much anymore. I'm not understanding his voting and his push on xisi is pretty poor. Not quite ready to rule him scum though, gut still thinks town.

Yates I have a null-ish read on. He seems to be one of these guys who go at their own pace and refuses to be pressured into doing anything. The little probing he has done was okay. I'm willing to see what else comes from him and give him the time to get there "organically". Actually, post 198 suggests that my initial wait and see reaction was a good one. While I don't fully agree with his top three I like his thinking here. Yeah, Yates can be weak town right now.

Can you explain why?

This goes to everyone who thinks I'm "scum": why is stubborness a scumtell?

Because it's not the stubbornness as such, it's more you saying that you would have done it but because MoI was a jerk you didn't. This is you once again turning the tables on the argument and forcing the blame and focus back on MoI. This is one big giant cop out. "This is all their fault!" detracting from the point against you.

The Xis wagon feels extremely scum-driven. Anyone else get that feeling?

Yup.

You are well positioned in that you aren't under fire and aren't being forced to provide original content because instead you are contributing to the game by placing the focus elsewhere via the types of questions you are asking.

^Agree. Add onto the fact you called someone out for lurking when I don't remember a good point you have made all game. Like Fonz's early opening, it's giving me the heebie jeebies.

[Sotty7]

Because it's not the stubbornness as such, it's more you saying that you would have done it but because MoI was a jerk you didn't. This is you once again turning the tables on the argument and forcing the blame and focus back on MoI. This is one big giant cop out. "This is all their fault!" detracting from the point against you.

Not true. I've admitted multiple times that I'm being a dick.

So?

[Sotty7]

Will absolutely lynch him anytime a favorable wagon appears. And will hammer without a claim if he gets to L-1. Just FYI to everyone else.

/in

@ sotty:

At one stage you thought I was posting pretty good (this is early in the game after I explained my reason for voting xisq more thoroughly).

You then voted me in 120 when I continued to refuse to give self-meta. You later stated, however, that you weren't sure what my stubbornness indicated (147). But you seemed to come to the conclusion that I am scum after I said moi and xisq asked me in an abrasive way (which you interpreted as me shifting the blame to them). Do you think it is fair, however, to say that it takes two to tango? Or do you think that I should accept full responsibility for the situation we have found ourselves in? Furthermore can you explain why it would be more town for me to do one thing or the other?

What post did the bold happen in? I'll go into more detail about the rest when you answer this. Pinky swear.

Hey Fonz, what's your read on Thd right now? Clear and concise would be awesome.

[Sotty7]

My bad.

Fair enough.

As for the rest, sure it takes two to tango but I'm really not interested in fighting fair right now. With your initial reaction to MoI you seem to suggest that you do have this in your meta but refuse to provide it, why is this suddenly your sticking point? I was almost ready to remove my vote off you until you started whining about MoI basically asking in a way that annoyed you. You are really going to have to break that line of thought down for me because I just don't get it. To me, it looks like you got caught red handed and are just trying to deflect until someone else comes along and does something scummier.

Is Yates' charactrtization of your play lately a correct one? What do you think about his stance on you?

That's going to be tough, because my view just isn't that clear.

Which is why I am having a big issue with your attack on Yates' defense of Thd, I'm not really seeing what you are driving at. In this post for example, you seem to be comparing it to how you would defend a player you believe is town, but I can't actually believe you would be that narrow minded. Yates' isn't you and I think he has been pretty clear on which side of the Thd debate he stnads, where you have been incredibly murky.

But... if a player I despise is attacking me with a meta argument that I know is untrue, I take pleasure in finding the proof that completely torpedoes his argument and makes him look foolish. If it were easy for ThAd to do so, I would have expected him to do it. He's also done pretty much no scumhunting since he's been under fire.

Then again, Yates as I've said looks like he's trying to distance from the wagon without actually derailing it

, and Jarvis is on it.

But then you post this and I am nodding my head in complete agreement (minus the bold). You basically framed the argument better than I could.

Jarvis isn't actually on this wagon but DLM is. Their presence is the only thing that unsettles me, just the whole posting style of DLM is making me weary of them. It all feels very detached. I think you need to make a commitment either way. Either get on this train or don't, but we're leaving the station.

[Sotty7]

And again. You are making clear YOU do not support the lynch,

but you are NOT actively opposing it or proposing an alternative

. Therefore despite your protestations to the contrary, I conclude from your actions that you really don't mind it going through, so long as you do not get any blame for it.

Eh, the bold is fair enough I guess. But still, he's done more than anyone else currently to defend Thd which is why I'm not making the same connection you are RE: the blame. The meta backs up your walk though, I don't think the two cases are the same though, guessing you don't strictly yet either, otherwise you would be voting Yates.

As much as I love ya I can see what Fonz is saying here.

Fair enough. Fonz's meta is enough to make me think this is a legit thought in his head. At the time though I found Fonz pushing on Yates for defending Thd to be suspect mostly because he hadn't made his own Thd position to be all that clear. I'm feeling a bit better about him now.

Every time I get the urge to unvote Thd he does something that makes me just want to keep my vote on him forever* I just feel like you are arguing in circles with both Fonz and MoI now. It's cluttering up the thread. Show me some scum hunting, anything that's not focused on this little box you say you are hating but are actively feeding into.

(*Not really but you get the point)

[Sotty7]

Amrun! <3

[Sotty7]

Zang, what's your opinion on Yates?

[Sotty7]

oh how I am glad to see Amrun in this game, even if replacing in for likely lurking scum

lol

@ThAd: Is MOI scum? Why or why not? You haven't actually talked about anything other than the attacks on you for several pages. I have no idea what your reads are at this point.

Ding ding ding …

This is a big part of the reason my vote is still on him.

Phoneposting so bear with me.

We stand to gain the most information from Jarvis so my vote goes there.

Twice this game he has stated that he would Lynch players regardless of alignment simply for distaste of the player. As new arguments come up I'm sure you'll develop a distaste towards more players.

vote Jarvis

An information lynch... I don't like this disclaimer.

[Sotty7]

I need to get re-engaged in this game. This is basically a reminder to do so. After work I am going to try and read though the whole Javis v Zang exchange because I feel like it has passed me by. If I can get situated here, I think other things should fall into place.

Mr Ree is also an excellent vote at this stage.

[Sotty7]

Day 1 Vote Count 5

THAdmiral 4 - MOI,Don't Lynch Me,Xisiqomelir,

Sotty

,
Jarvis 3 - Mr_Ree,Amrun,Yates
Mr_Ree 3 - PereV,furcolow,Jarvis
Jarvis 2 - Zang,The Fonz
xisiqomilir 1 - ThAdmiral

I need to get re-engaged in this game. This is basically a reminder to do so. After work I am going to try and read though the whole Javis v Zang exchange because I feel like it has passed me by. If I can get situated here, I think other things should fall into place.

Mr Ree is also an excellent vote at this stage.

....I don't get it. Pretty sure I can have more than one suspect.

[Sotty7]

In 120, your supsicion of Fonz was one of your reasons for voting ThAd. In 310, Fon'z suspcion of ThAd was one of the reasons your voting ThAd.

Tell me why this is NOT scummy.

Tell me why it is and I might entertain you.

[Sotty7]

Out of the two leading wagons I really like Mr Ree for my vote. His early game interaction around furc meta still bugs me and I'm not compelled by his hop on the popular Javis. Classing his vote as information is a good way to distance if a flip were to go against him. He might be backing away from that comment now but I don't really buy his reasoning.

I'm also not seeing the huge case on Javis (I seem to be the only one?) which is why I need to check out the Zang/Javis interaction in iso. I feel like I am missing out on something major so I will take a second look (starting in a moment here)

Because of the above DLM has actually vaulted his way up my suspect list with 361 and 364. I would love a viable wagon to pop up here. Feels like an extremely disingenuous vote.

[Sotty7]

Yeah okay. I'm still not on board with the Jarvis lynch.

The scummiest thing he does is support the furc lynch in RVS without ever voting and I'm not even sure I can hate on him for this. He's pretty clear about his positions and it feels like Zang is locked in a little here. Some of the points against him aren't even scummy like the over aggression for example. I can understand his frustrations a little, there is a lot of fluff for a day one case.

I won't be voting Javis today.

Unvote, Vote: DLM

Incredible bad vibes from this slot. I don't feel they believe what they are saying. A lot of empty questions that look like they are doing something and yet lead nowhere. Would love a break down on how Javis is so obv scum.

Deadline wise I'd be willing to switch to Mr_Ree and probably will. Interested to see where this vote takes me though.

[Sotty7]

@Sotty7

: Tell me more about DLM. Is it possible that style differences between Nero and KJ are giving you the impression of dissonance?

I guess it's possible. But I'm not experiencing Hydra dissonance with them, it's very much an overall detachment from the game. I'll try and explain this more in a bit here, but it is an extremely itchy gut feel.

Xis, what's the biggest points that you think Javis is dodging and has to answer for?

[Sotty7]

Agreeing with Thd makes me feel dirty, but I do. DLM's ISO is filled with lots of empty questions that just seemed to be asked to keep up appearances of scum hunting. I'm feeling no real pressure coming from this slot, just subtle pushes here and there. No out and out commitment one way or the other and hedging their bets. Best example of that is being willing to lynch both Javis and Thd. I'm just feeling like they could place their vote on anyone at anytime because of how stand offish they have been so far. Not feeling the town motivation for their posting.

I want to see their case on Javis. I want to see their reads documented.

[Sotty7]

You don't think it's scummy how he has completely ignored my case against him?

I don't think he has completely ignored your case. He just hasn't responded in a manner you want.

But come on now MoI, after not mentioning me for pages on end, you're really about to drop the ThAd lynch that you've worked so hard for to hammer me, without a word? Colour me unconvinced.

Deadline be coming up. This shouldn't be that shocking.

@Sotty:

DLM is a good wagon. Ree is at least as good, though, and much more viable.

I hear you.

MOD:

On that note, a vote count right about now would warm my insides.

[Sotty7]

MOI you're a fucking spastic.

To elaborate, it was a total power play presumably. You knew even if you were wrong that was 2 chances to play the hero. What the hell? Remember when you were a good player and didn't do stupid anti town gambits for the 'lulz'. Hopefully part of why you site flaked is because you were embarassed to come back here. At least I technically never got lynched! (Sorry again, Yates. I had Pere/DLM/Fonz fairly solidly town, AO confirmed town due to set-up stuff and thought it was ree/yates. Whoops!)

(Also in fairness, I'd have probably not shot if given the chance, assuming my shot would end the game if wrong ._.)

Agree

Had high hops for the town even after I died to be honest but it wasn't to be. Enjoyed it though, well played guys.

[Sotty7]

Sorry Sotty. What can i say but you got it right. You called Fonz and I day 1 so you had to go.

Fonz did really well to act so town after his awful start to the game. I would feel good about catching him after one post if the town had actually won. The loss makes it meh.

[Sotty7]

The way I see it, I am not going to be annoyed over MOIs actions. He staged a gambit, one he fully believed would work and it didn't. I think he was that confident of the scum flip he faked the guilty, knowing if he was wrong he would be lynched the next day and have a vengeful kill which I believe he would have used to kill AngentOrange (though nothing official was submitted) I believe that was his intention. That he would get scum either way in his gambit. And truely believed he was doing the right thing for town, and playing within both his wincon (As I believe he did have town interests at heart) and role conditions that he would get a kill on who he thought was scum

On a personal note, I hope nothing serious is wrong with his disappearance from the site and he gets back soon. I always enjoy having him in my games as has been one of the many regulars who play in my games.

I would agree with this if he hadn't pulled the same gambit in another game as town.

Fonz's break down of MoI is 100% on the ball.