Mini 1389: The Agency Mafia (Game Over)

[PiggyGal15]

Hello everyone ^.^

I replaced Eidolon... not sure why it wasn't mentioned by the mod Makes me feel unloved... </3

The mod updated the posts yay! ^.^ That makes me a happy panda.

Maybe it's just me, but the "willing to cooperate" in the death flavor makes me think quadz was town, which makes me weary of Matt... I mean sure, the mod might have put the same role in twice, but role does not equal alignment, and I'm guessing one of them is scum. This just means at end game, I'd prefer Matt not to be around.

I remember someone talking about the possibility of scum not knowing who each other were...? I can't remember who, or in what post - I'mma search for it now - but that seemed like a scum slip that no one noticed o.O Unless there's something in the rules that says that...? But I don't remember anything besides that one post mentioning the idea that scum might not know who each other are.

My biggest scum read is Emp. Every vote has 0 reasoning, and half of them are just quotes o.O I mean, seriously, ISO the guy, there's absolutely nothing of value in there.
VOTE: Empking

[PiggyGal15]

Found the post about scum being anonymous, the thought never crossed my mind, but thinking about it now, and imagining how much Matt thought about it, seems like a reasonable theory, and not a scum slip like I remembered. S'all good.

p-edit: Emp, I do not count sheeping as a reason

[PiggyGal15]

Oh noes! Got prodded

So I've been doing some ISOs... UNVOTE:
VOTE: GNR
Empking still looks suspicious to me, but Riggs is looking like a better lynch - need I explain? I think it's fairly obvious by now, but I will if you all insist.

So far, pretty much everyone else is town looking to me o.O Doesn't happen often, but I guess this game is just special... Guille and malpa are the lowest in my town reads.

[PiggyGal15]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: malpa

See Matt's point if you wish to know why. Some things are just too damning to let slip by.

Riggs is scummy because he's being scummy... I already made a wall post today, I'm not making another one. Let's just go with I was sheeping, kay? If worst comes to worst, I'll type up my post when I've got some more energy.

[PiggyGal15]

I don't understand. Are you calling this:

Oh noes! Got prodded

So I've been doing some ISOs... UNVOTE:
VOTE: GNR
Empking still looks suspicious to me, but Riggs is looking like a better lynch - need I explain? I think it's fairly obvious by now, but I will if you all insist.

So far, pretty much everyone else is town looking to me o.O Doesn't happen often, but I guess this game is just special... Guille and malpa are the lowest in my town reads.

Your wallpost about GNR?

Naw, I made a wallpost in another game, and just wasn't feeling up to making another one.

[PiggyGal15]

I could get behind a trollie lynch, I think he might be one of the people in the second QT (probably person 2) especially so if Quadz was Person 1.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Trollie

[PiggyGal15]

I could get behind a trollie lynch, I think he might be one of the people in the second QT (probably person 2) especially so if Quadz was Person 1.

This is an oddly specific thought. Why do you think that?

Look who was against the wagon - I mean, who was against it the strongest. Quadz who, like I said, makes sense if he was Person 1, and then who else was pushing for Matt to get lynched? Trollie.

Someone remind me why Empking's town again? I don't see it.

I'd actually like everyone to answer this question. Emp has been so scummy, yet no one seems to think so.

but Riggs is looking like a better lynch - need I explain? I think it's fairly obvious by now, but I will if you all insist.

So far, pretty much everyone else is town looking to me o.O Doesn't happen often, but I guess this game is just special... Guille and malpa are the lowest in my town reads.

@Piggy - Can you explain your vote? Would like to hear it in your own words.
Also, what are your reads thus far?

It was mainly just the motivation behind your posts, they seemed almost forced and well, basically it's just a gut feeling. I might answer this more later if I care, but I hate making long posts, especially if they're cases, so you'll have to really motivate me to bend.

My reads:
AI - null leaning town, nothing too suspicious on him.
Emp - scummy scum scum
guille - I always have mixed feelings on him, but I'mma say town
Riggs - null leaning scum
malpa - scummyish, not as bad as Emp or Trollie, worse than Riggs though
Matt - town, but I'm still a little worried about his role, he could still be TP with some sort of role stealing ability, and like he said, got an invention or something last night.
NS - town
Iec - town
saulres - fairly town
shos - town
Trollie - scum

[PiggyGal15]

Look who was against the wagon - I mean, who was against it the strongest. Quadz who, like I said, makes sense if he was Person 1, and then who else was pushing for Matt to get lynched? Trollie.

So you think the 2nd QT is a scum one?

It certainly sounds anti-town. Does that necessarily mean scum? No, for all we know it could be a cult or something. In any case, I don't think the people in the 2nd QT are good to keep around.

he could still be TP

What's "TP"?

Third party

[PiggyGal15]

Welcome Antihero ^.^
Quick summery for ya, Trollie is scum, you should vote him

[PiggyGal15]

I don't think the people in the 2nd QT are good to keep around.

See, but when you entered the game, you said:

the "willing to cooperate" in the death flavor makes me think quadz was town

So to you, quadz was town despite being anti-Matt in-thread, but after Matt reveals an anti-Matt conversation you switched that read to anti-town. That strikes me as "scum forgetting what their reads were".

I said that the death flavor makes me think quadz was town, personally, I think quadz was scum, but without a concrete flip, I can't really know that for sure, can I?

I'm not anti-Matt per say, I just think there's a possibility that he's third party, and I don't want to make it to end game, think we've won, and then end up losing to a hidden third party nobody thought about. I want to say Matt is town, but again, without a concrete flip on quadz, I'm a skeptic and paranoid.

I don't think anyone, town or scum, really "forget" who their reads are, reads change as the game goes on, especially with me because I nitpick (when I'm serious about a game anyway) peoples posts, so if I'm looking through someones new posts, and they say something really townie or really scummy, why am I supposed to hold onto that past read? Especially when most of my reads are just gut anyway.

Take Piggy's 436: She gives a list of reads and states that both mala, empking, myself, and trollie are scum, yet she hasn't explained any of those reads (except myself and trollie in the same post). Since making that post, she hasn't done anything trying to explain why empking or mala are scum, even though I had asked her to explain at least her empking read later (Post 449). Going back farther, Piggy has been taking a laid back stance on the game, making very minimal effort in the posts. Each post is more so of an apology for being absent and then a halfhearted read with no reasoning behind it. When she doesn't give specific reads, she sheeps someone else for the reason (Mala and myself).

I did explain Emp, I don't understand how people

don't

find him scummy, but apparently they don't, so useless-lurker-scum will apparently continue to be unnoticed :/

Explanation - the little narrator reading their posts in my head is oozing with scumtasticness. Seriously. Especially with Emp. I can't believe no one else is noticing it, but Trollie needs more rope than Emp does today, so until you all see the light, I'll just be staring the scum down over here.

I always take laid back stances on a game until later days, I do a lot of association tells and just the fact that by day 3 people have about 30+ posts, so there's actual content to look through. Obviously there haven't been any flips yet, so no association tells, and I'm just not serious about the game yet, give it until tomorrow ^.^

They are not halfhearted reads, my null reads are halfhearted, the rest are the best you'll get from me prior day 3. Honestly Riggs, you saw my crap play in Precinct Madness, you should know better.

[PiggyGal15]

First time getting nudged to make a post... it makes me feel... slightly violated... I'd like to stick to prods from now on please, they make me feel safer...

In other news, I only just skimmed this days on-goings... I've taken a look at the cryptic messages, but I'm really confused what they're supposed to mean... and it slightly worries me that GNR was mentioned in the first and died, and I'm pretty sure the second one is hinting at me... is my death already secured then or something? Cause that would make me sad.

Another part of the message that I've been thinking about, if GNR was supposed to talk like NS, or just the fact that it's saying that they both talk like each other, and GNR turned up (what I assume to be) scum... I'd be fairly happy to lynch NS.

I find it odd that Trollie and quadz were actually on different (again, what I assume are) scum teams. I'm interested in what messages Matt got.


Saul - Yeah I've played with shos before, he was scum... I was a little out of it that game, but I wouldn't necessarily say he's extraordinarily cunning as scum. But I can say that his play style here feels nothing like his play style in the game we played together.

[PiggyGal15]

Empking still seems fishy to me, however I have to agree with saulres, guille is looking like a good Quadz partner VOTE: guille

Guille, what kind of defense is "cute"?

[PiggyGal15]

So, guille, wanna shed some light on why you didn't die yesterday?

Iec, all that means is that saul wasn't part of the KGB.

I'm almost thinking that Matt and quadz might have pulled that as a gambit. On the first day we had no idea we were dealing with two mafia, so they probably thought that if Matt got quadz killed he could ride the town cred to the end of the game. Either that, or maybe because of the power to leak QT information, the mafia don't actually know who each other is.

Either way, quadz said NS had a QT, so I'm thinking he should be our lynch for the day.

[PiggyGal15]

Either way, quadz said NS had a QT, so I'm thinking he should be our lynch for the day.

I still think quadz was fakeclaiming. If he was telling the truth I think his reaction to Matt's partial claim would have been different.

Unless it was all a planned gambit so quadz was acting, but I suppose the whole thing is just WIFOM, and I know it's just my paranoia, but my paranoia said not to keep Matt around, and look, he turned up scum. Just saying, NS should not be kicking around at end game.

Iec, I hope you don't honestly think I'll believe that was a typo. Who mistakes 'alignment' (meaning town/scum/tp) for 'allegiance' (meaning loyalty). That's a pretty specific thing there, especially if we're talking about double agents.

VOTE: Iecerint

[PiggyGal15]

Mehdi's and Iec's flavor makes me think we have a bus driver or something of that variety that can switch people at night.

NS, are you implying that if one of KGB/FBI are actually town, then you are not town? Or do you believe that town is being called by two(+) names?

[PiggyGal15]

still the same "reasoning" as before?

[PiggyGal15]

Did none of the comments between matt and quadz look exaggerated to you? I know matt loves bussing and the way they talked to each other just felt too exaggerated,

No they did not.

That's because you're the other KGB agent... you know what?
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Empking
Anyone who wants town to win will do the same... I'm also cool lynching guille off again too, but Empking just really really needs to die. He's so scummy I can't even begin to explain. Just, sheep me. Vote him.

[PiggyGal15]

(ps, governor I am not)

[PiggyGal15]

Empking, what's the difference between exaggerated and over-exaggerated? In this case, they're both meaning fake-and-pretend, so how can it only be a

little

fake and pretend, but not a

lot

fake and pretend. It's not really a spectrum, just a 'yes it is' or 'no it isn't'.

[PiggyGal15]

And once again, Empking's scumminess goes unnoticed. But fine, I'll stop useless-lurker hunting and
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Guille

Funny, shos' little explanations on why guille is town actually made me believe guille is even more likely scum.

If he is unlynchable, then I can assume whether he is town or scum, someone is going to kill him tonight. Especially if KGB and FBI are both mafia teams who don't win together (hence them killing each other off). No scum wants an unlynchable player to deal with, so tonight we can pretty much assume that if guille

isn't

lynched, he'll be killed tonight anyway. If this is the case, the first few people on the wagon - especially NS for pushing it so much - are most likely going to be scum.

If someone governed him and is town, they're an idiot for not claiming. Shame on you. Which pretty much makes it 99% likely that the governer is scum. Scum governer's don't use their powers on town. That's stupid and ridiculous. I know that it's technically WIFOM cause, hey, maybe the scum-governer expected us to re-lynch the clearly unlynchable guy giving them two free days and 3 dead not-their-team. But there's very little chance they actually thought we would try to re-lynch guille, meaning that scum-governer most likely thought they just lost a chance to kill someone not-their-team. Like I said, WIFOM, but chances are good that guille is scum.

And if he

is

town, he's just going to distract us and keep my paranoia on high-alert for the rest of the game because there's some unknown mechanic happening here, and I don't like it and definitely don't want to deal with an unlynchable player at lylo.

[PiggyGal15]

UNVOTE:
I'm still paranoid, but so be it.

But fine, I'll stop useless-lurker hunting and

How am I not being pushed on this? I've never lurked this much in a mafia game and you're lurker hunting points you to emp and not me? Emp's also been more of a sane voice this game in saying matt makes sense when people were being dumb with the guilty.

Yes, but look at Emp's posts, now look at yours. There's an emphasis on the

useless

, and you are not being useless. Emp, however, is.

Urm, shos, guille already claimed, popcorn to someone else.

[PiggyGal15]

Well, cause Malpa isn't here, and I am, guess I'll just claim now, I'm Mitchel Barling and I think (and I could be wrong, the flavors a little...) that I'm a jailkeeper. Mod gave me no clarification and it's a one-shot, so I haven't used it.

[PiggyGal15]

VOTE: malpa
Vigs don't withhold their ability because they might hit town. Think of yourself as a vig - except you didn't use the kill that if kept around could easily win the game in non-town favour. Town never keep killing abilities around till late game, that's just asking for a non-town win.

[PiggyGal15]

I'm fine with a Empking lynch obviously, though NS seems like a good alternative as well.
VOTE: Empking

[PiggyGal15]

*uses ninja maneuvers to dodge the prod*

Empking still needs rope... Sorry I've been inactive - AP exams. I'll be more active after Friday, promise.

Curious to note Emp and NS - the two main wagons - are being silent...

[PiggyGal15]

Guille, like I said, I'mma be busy all week, but next week I should be more active...

NS, you really have nothing more to add? Not even a vote?

[PiggyGal15]

Well it

is

a bastard game...

[PiggyGal15]

Yeaaah, agreeing with shos on the AtE bit there... UNVOTE:
VOTE: Nobody Special
Scum has flailed around long enough.

[PiggyGal15]

I'm a loyal England citizen, I work hard at my job and love it, so I feel it's my duty to protect my workplace and all my co-workers by getting rid of the agencies.

I am trained in various martial arts, and once I can protect one specific person. That's essentially all it says, which is why I don't know if it's a jailkeeper or doctor, roleblocker, bus driver, etc. I would say that I'm just a 1x Doc but then what's the point of adding the martial arts? Which makes me think I block them too...

When I asked PV if he could give me any clarification, he refused.

[PiggyGal15]

I am not getting on this crazy idea of there being a cult, that's just... no, my paranoia would go off the walls and I would give up, so no, there is no cult.

With those messages,

A message has been received.

Role < MP. No words. GNR talk like NS.

So "Role is less than Matt. No words. GNR talk like NS."
This could mean that Matt's ability had an on/off switch, this was saying that it was on - for the night.
No words could be talking about the fact that someone knew about Matt's ability before they turned it on, and were telling everyone else to shut up and keep things coded.
GNR talk like NS is a little more tricky, I can't really fully examine this until NS's flip, but, if I assume GNR started out town, and was converted to mafia most likely night 1 (at least to make this part of the message make sense) that either means that GNR was converted to mafia but to act town, and therefore saying NS is town. Or NS is scum and since GNR was converted it's saying to talk like mafia. Again, it needs NS's flip.

A message has been received.

MP < role. oinkoink pen-> slaughterhouse. perfect.

So "Matt is less than role. Pig pen to the slaughterhouse. perfect."
If we assume Matt's ability was an on/off switch, this would then be saying that for the day, it's now 'off'. Meaning that if he had an(other) day ability, it was turned off here.
Since I'm not dead, I'm really confused about the second part. Unless they were talking about some other pig in the room o.O I can only assume this was "scum" saying "go after Piggy, she'll be an easy mislynch" or something like that. (scum being in quotes because I'm assuming these messages were most likely from KGB, since after all the KGB agents were killed, the messages stopped happening. Perhaps that's just a coincidence though. More later.)

A message has been received.

Tick - Tick. Zero Zero One. BOOM

Now I'm no bomb expert, but that sounds like a bomb going off. And now let's look at what just happened - Matt hammered Guille, who didn't die, and then Matt died. Perhaps Guille has some secret modified bomb ability that the person who hammers them gets killed in their stead? Either way, this message is definitely about a bomb going off. I'm 99.9% sure of that.

A message has been received.

IECERINT COVERT COMM. MEASURES FAILING

Clearly whoever is sending these messages is flailing. Considering that the messages are at the same time as the flip and Night start, I'm going to assume the messages were pre-done. (This technically makes my theory about "GNR talk like NS." void since the message would have been done before night... unless they had the powers to convert during the day.) But that also means that last night we didn't get a message because the last KGB agent was killed - just an off the wall theory though. I mean, both quadz and Matt claimed to have special message/communication abilities, so it fits that the messages were coming from them.
Now if I assume that these are in fact coming from the KGB agents, then that means Iec would have some sort of power to convert people, either being a cult (no, no I do not wish to believe there is a cult at work here) or an already converted member who can convert more...? Or a third party who could... convert others... but isn't a cult... damn it, please don't be a cult! If there is, I will be devastated that you all didn't think I was worthy enough to convert (unless THAT'S what the "oinkoink pen-> slaughterhouse" means... but then why wasn't I converted? Ah, my head hurts now, I'm taking a break)

[PiggyGal15]

This is just a prod dodge until later today when I can get a computer. Obviously I'm still fine with a Emp lynch, I targetted Guille, reasons will come with my later post. I also have a pretty solid theory of what's going on here with all these agencies and only a max of two kills at night. But I have to take another look at shos' targets and see if they line up with my theory.

[PiggyGal15]

shos, before I do anything, I have to ask is "N1 target - empking, N2 target - Matt, N3 target - self; N4 didn't target." correct? And did you target anyone N5? And you received nothing night four?

Did anyone get any flavor last night, or any other previous nights that they aren't sharing? Or were Ice and Mehdi the only ones that got any flavor?

Guille, I'm specifically looking at you.

(oh, and Empking, beautiful fakeclaim. I can see you put a lot of time and effort into coming up with it)

[PiggyGal15]

Okay, so you never received any flavor. Fair enough. Did you ever receive a gun? (Answering truthfully might get me to stop going after your magicarp tail (aka, I pretty much already know the answer, so you might as well just say it.))

[PiggyGal15]

Truthfully and honestly? Cross your heart, hope to die?

[PiggyGal15]

For someone to slip and make my theory correct. Guille, you're the last one I'm waiting for now, then I will reveal all.

[PiggyGal15]

So, I just got incredibly sick :/ Coming on here cause I don't want to pause the game too much, I'm going to say

v/la until Friday

just to be safe, to give me time to catch up on everything I've missed in rl before coming back to here.

I haven't fully edited my theory with some extra things I thought of yesterday, but I think it gets the point across.

Spoiler:

The theory: Only one of the Agencies has a kill. And that's not 'only one can kill at a time'. No. Only one Agency has ever had the kill. KGB had their QT investigation powers. I believe with Matt and quadz we can all safely agree on that. I'm going to assume (explain more later on) that the FBI could convert, and this CIA is our actual killing agency.

Shos, you are, in fact, a guns dealer. You give your target a one-shot killing ability for the next night. Night one no one died because our Townie Iec got shot at, had a one-shot bulletproofness, and so no kill. The FBI converted Saul. The KGB did whatever investigating they did. That night you gave

Empking

a gun.

Day two comes around, we kill off the FBI Agent. Night two happens, perhaps the FBI tried to convert someone, I'm going to assume that even if they did, that double agent needs at least one of the agents to be alive (if not just solely the Director) or now that the FBI is finished, that double agent has returned to normal town status. The KGB did whatever investigating they wanted to do, and this is why I think the CIA is the one with the killing ability, because the FBI Director got shot. Assumidly depleting the FBI of all its agents (why am I assuming this? Because if I believe the FBI has three agents like the KGB, then that means the CIA would also have three agents to make everything even (or perhaps not, since the CIA has a killing ability no one else has, but I still think that's rather unbalanced) and if there are four of us remaining, and there would then be 1 FBI and 2 CIA left... I'm the last town alive, and that makes me sad and depressed that I can't win no matter what :/ so assuming FBI is finished off is what I'm going to do) Shos, you then give

Matt

a gun.

Day three, Guille (assuming he's also one of our trusted Townies), tried to get lynched, but his killable-proof power kicked in, and there was no lynch. (Aka, I agree that town have a 1x killable-proofness)
Night three is where this gets fun. No more FBI, so no one gets converted. Saul gets killed off by Matt or Emp or CIA, Matt gets killed off by the CIA or Emp, and Mehdi (with her killable-proofness) was shot by Emp or Matt or CIA, giving us our weird three kills. Shos, you tried to give yourself a gun. I'm going to assume (since the mod is telling us nothing) that either, like in almost every other mafia game there is, you can't target yourself, or you're part of the CIA and already have a gun (this would make 3 KGB 3 FBI 2 CIA be balanced if the CIA was able to give out guns).

Day 4, killed the last KGB. Night 4, CIA is the only ones with kills left, and they finally kill off Mehdi. This is why the order of the above listings of who killed who matters. I believe Saul was killed by Matt/EMP so that Matt was killed by CIA so that Mehdi was shot by Emp/Matt. This way the CIA doesn't really know that shooting Mehdi (themselves) might resolve in a(nother) no-kill, as they believe they're the ones doing the killing, and the other guns might be unreliable and since no one else really has flavor of not being killed, they probably didn't pay it any mind (or they did shoot Mehdi and they didn't think she had more than a 1x killable-proofness). If shos is part of the CIA, this really doesn't matter, whoever killed who is a complete toss up. And since shos isn't giving out any more guns, no more extra kills are being sent through. (that's why I had to ask Guille if he got any messages of being saved or anything, as that would point to shos lying since that would mean there would have to be more guns in play). Either that, or shos is part of the CIA, gave himself a gun, didn't get an extra shot, and thought it would be too risky to give any more guns out on the chance someone dared to shoot him.

Essentially, after doing all that, I have come to the conclusion that shos is actually our best bet. I'm guessing the Director is like the Godfather in that they're the ones to send in the action. I would be perfectly fine lynching shos, I won't vote now as that would put him at L-1. Empking is, dare I say it, not looking that suspicious after fully reading the game over again. If he were part of the CIA, why would he waste a second kill so early on? I mean, there is the question of why didn't he use it the next night, but I'm not going to judge him on the fact that maybe there was just no one he was suspicious of enough to kill yet.

p-edit (after getting answers from shos and Emp): However, with Empking's complete denial of getting a gun, that still makes me suspicious. If he has nothing to hide, why bother lying? Makes me think maybe it's 3 KGB 2 FBI (since they can convert) and 3 CIA, with shos and Emp putting on a pretty little show for us. (and we're only still playing because of my killable-proofness still intact).

Aka, Guille is conftown, Emp is more likely town, but could be CIA, and shos could only be CIA (imo). I'd vote but that's L-1 (plus me not being here in case I need to unvote quickly) but I'll try to keep up on my phone in between my drug-induced comas of peaceful sleep.

I targeted Guille because I really didn't know what sort of damage I would do, if any at all. I figured the least that would happen is that I doc-protect them, and with Guille already having the 1x killable-proofness gone (publically too) I figured he'd be the safest bet to try and save, though it really was just a coin flip between him and Ice.

[PiggyGal15]

wow, this theory is so bad I can't even. how the hell did you get to this.

FBI can convert? where did you get this from? the CIA shoot themselves (mehd) despite him flipping town? wut?

No, CIA shoot Mehdi themselves. As is they're the ones who are shooting Mehdi, not someone else. (I realize how that could be mistaken if the intonation while reading it is wrong, that's why I said it hadn't really been fully edited yet)
I got it from "shifting alignments" and the fact that Traitor is a legit role.

you say you targetted guille because you didn't know what *damage* you can do?...you do realize that, we all claimed VTs, yes? and you protect someone, and at best also prevent them from killing, yes? please explain. tell me, why was it a coin flip between him and Iec?
also, can you confirm that your role pm says Agencies and not Agency? <<<this question goes to guille too

Yes, you all

claimed

VTs, if I were to believe that, I would have to believe that my PM is lying and that I'm the last scum here. So one of you is lying, and therefore could have some weird power to bomb or something if someone targets you. It's a bastard game with obvious hidden role mechanics at play, though I admit "damage" isn't quite the word I wanted to use, "effects" would be a better word. Again, that's a rough draft of my theory, I could go edit it better if you'd like.
Iec had said he had gotten the flavor about almost dying, that means his killable-proofness had been used, guille's had just been used publically and therefore was 100% true, making in my mind, a safer target for the NK.
Actually, it does say "agency" but what I was remembering in my head as I was paraphrasing was that it talks about the agency's employees, with the added knowledge that there is more than one, I just wrote "agencies" instead. Curious to note that Guille's PM actually says "agencies" though...

Piggy, Why'd you come and go make think so much more difficult. If you are scum, that paragraph is the key to getting you lynched. However there are many doubts here. If you are scum, then why not support the Empking lynch. If you think Empking is town, then you just noted that everyone is town.

If the CIA had two players (Without including saulres), then It is impossible for Shos to be CIA. He pushed shos to the lynch. Had he been CIA he could simply voted along Empking and Piggy and convinced Ice or even me to vote with him to get that lynch easy and win the game.

I find it implausible for Shos to be CIA.

Human! D: Stahp!
You've completely misunderstood, if my theory is correct, saulres in no way shape or form has any accesses or knowledge of the CIA at all. I'm saying that saulres started VT, and was converted to FBI (or has always been a legit "double agent" (Traitor) from the start with the FBI (could also be KGB I suppose, but then the FBI would have no "special" powers and the FBI would've been a 2-man team)). That means his teammates would be Trollie and Riggs. Nothing do to at all with NS (or shos).

anyways if the CIA had more than 2 without counting saulres then there are two alive, meaning game over, so yeah. there's only one. there

could

, theoretically, be one FBI and one CIA alive, if saul is CIA with some wierd role. I doubt that tho.

Same thing to you shos, saul is not CIA in my theory. At all. In the slightest. (now that's not to say that if my theory is wrong, saul couldn't be part of some weird CIA/FBI thing, but I just think that's ridiculous, and think him being some town->mafia traitor makes more sense)

Piggy, can you update your comment on post 475? I think it is still legitimate. in 481 you promised a lot, and now you haven't provided us with anything nearing that.

You mean my reads explanations? I never had any. I never do until very late game when I can find legit mess ups. It was all just the intonation of the posts and the way they were reacting... I don't think I took any notes about it though... I might be able to put myself in that mind set again, but with the new information I have, I doubt it'll come anything close to what I actually thought at the time.

[PiggyGal15]

Oh, yeah I thought it was weird that you were asking for my reads way back then. I'll give current reads later, but its still you being most suspicious followed by Emp with Guille being conf town to me.

When I paraphrased my PM I changed and rearranged pretty much every word. I know it sounds smooth, but that's just because I'm a writer and good with words.

[PiggyGal15]

Prod dodge for now, it really all comes down to who guille thinks is scum.

I'll get around to this game later, family issues came up, but I should have some time this afternoon... Hopefully.

[PiggyGal15]

Piggy! Show up, what do you think?

I've said multiple times what I think. Shos is scum and should be lynched.
VOTE: shos

No lynching is a bad idea. It won't change anything since it'll probably be guille who'll die (which would then lead you all to mislynch me) and I say guille will be lynched because if you haven't noticed, he's the only one all of us say is town. Why would they kill me (a used up 1x) or shos (who might give them a second gun... Or do absolutely nothing) or Emp who no one seems to be calling town or scum. If anything they'll kill off Emp to create more confusion. (im saying all this taking into account all possibilities from everyone's perspective of who's scum)

[PiggyGal15]

So, Emp is pretty confident shos is scum, I'm pretty confident shos is scum... is there any reason to prolong the game any longer?

[PiggyGal15]

shos, if I were scum right now I would be sitting around lurking, waiting for one of you to vote so I could quick lynch and win.

Instead, VOTE: shos
I reread your ISOs and Emp came no where close to how scumtastic I found you to be.
If I have time, I'll post my findings, but I really don't. If you really want me to start making cases and quote reasons, I suggest you start doing so yourself.

[PiggyGal15]

I KNEW EMP WAS SCUM! Darn it! Why does no one ever believe my gut? Why did I start to doubt it?
Good game in any case, sorry I was getting really tired of playing Mafia at the end there, I'll admit the last day probably could've been played out better.

I'm curious though, Pere, if Emp and I had lynched off shos, who would've won?