Mini 1404 - Monopoly Mafia - Game Over

[Jake from State Farm]

Still, it's not a risk town would want to take. I've barely been in the game a day. Give me a chance to prove myself as town.

This post reminds me of a post made by scum in another game. I questioned him just like I'm going to question you. Why did you feel the need to add the word "as town" at the end of the sentence?

If you are town, why add the extra wording? Why not just say "give me a chance to prove myself"

Adding the "as town" is something someone who isn't town would say.


Btw if anyone wants links to that slip by scum in the other game, ill gladly provide it.

[Jake from State Farm]

Sure you needed to prove yourself, but since proving yourself to be town was the obvious idea, its an unnecesary addition.

I guess we will find out soon enough. I mean CD could hammer you at any moment yet you still aren't doing anything to show your town worth. Just cause you claim vig isn't going to save you.

So you gonna answer jal's question? Gonna answer mine? Gonna do anything but argue with me?

[Jake from State Farm]

going over all the people who are suspicious of baby and I saw something pretty interesting. If anyone has free time look over number's posts about baby and see if anyone else notices the same red flags that I just noticed. There are some pretty glaring red flags in my opinion.

[Jake from State Farm]

Mehndi, did you just say you would be ok leaving a confirmed scum alive and lynching someone else? Assuming monkey was confirmed scum

[Jake from State Farm]

Ok so if you are town you are playing against your win con

If you are town replace out now

[Jake from State Farm]

And the argument between lynching confirmed scum has appeared in other games. I was confirmed scum basically day 4 and didn't get lynched until day 7 since people wanted to leash me.

which game? link please?


also you were the one who had been in games where they pseudo lynched right? links to those as well.

[Jake from State Farm]

quick thought mehndi..

If Monkey can't be trusted to answer simple questions from multiple people, how can he be trusted to kill who we tell him to kill?

[Jake from State Farm]

quick thought mehndi..

If Monkey can't be trusted to answer simple questions from multiple people, how can he be trusted to kill who we tell him to kill?

[Jake from State Farm]

Except there's no reason not to give me the benefit of the doubt. I'm town.

You have to prove yourself in the day to earn the right to prove yourself at night. Just cause you claim vig means jack shit

[Jake from State Farm]

You are ignoring questions by at least 2 people. That's doing sonething wrong

[Jake from State Farm]

*something

[Jake from State Farm]

You are at l-1, even if 2 scum are on the wagon that's 3 town on the wagon and a 4th saying they will hammer. Stop being naive and admit you are doing lots of things wrong

[Jake from State Farm]

Interesting notes about the current votes

TBG - voted AI not monkey and he hasn't really said anything about monkey all day
Lord - Like a bunch of the rest of his IIoA, it's just there doing nothing, like a way to look townie without taking too hard a stance on anything. (good point with this one)
Jal - voted right after monkey put mehndi at L-1, asked monkey to explain how mehndi's defense has un-raveled (he has not answered this question yet)
Jake - opportunisic vote on Mehndi, ignoring my questions and others (still refusing to answer)
Xis - Rank survivalism (whatever that means)
Cheery wants to hammer - CD makes valid points in 1408 and asks monkey a question (which monkey ignores)

The only questionable votes on Monkey that I see are TBG and Xis. But note that Monkey has ignored questions/posts from 3 people all of who aren;t on the questionable vote list.

This is why I don;t feel Monkey can be trusted to follow our kill suggestion. He has basically found a way to avoid all questions and hasn't even attempted to scumhunt. All he keeps doing is saying he has to be kept alive because he is a vig and we should trust him (maybe that's what rank survivalism means?, if so than Xis's vote isn't questionable afterall)

[Jake from State Farm]

Well rank survivalism is exactly what monkey is doing

[Jake from State Farm]

Well rank survivalism is exactly what monkey is doing

Yup. How do you feel about Medhi forgetting that he had to be blocked to be Town?

I'm still suspicious of mehndi, him or guile would be the best people for Jal to shoot IMO.

[Jake from State Farm]

Tbg, where did this bus idea come from?

[Jake from State Farm]

Changing them without reason isn't. At this point you're just jumping on what direction things are going and aren't really trying to persuade people to follow you at all.

Amen, there's hope for you yet

[Jake from State Farm]

You realize the only alternative lynch will most likely be you right?

[Jake from State Farm]

Theme games aren't required to be balanced right? Themes are essentially no holds barred?

Cause if this was a normal, this game would be easy to figure out.

[Jake from State Farm]

Actually according to the theme rules, games don't have to be reviewed, thus they don't have to be balanced.

So lol at you.

[Jake from State Farm]

But if we assune this game is balanced that means 1 of the vig claims is fake guaranteed.

It also means cards that belong to scum, stay with scum and vice versa.

That would mean monkey or Jal is scum guaranteed.

[Jake from State Farm]

I've never heard anything saying any game is not required to be balanced. Just because a reviewer isn't balanced doesn't mean balance isn't required. If a mod ran a game that wasn't balanced no one would want to play their games. People take winning very seriously here.

But my idea if balanced differs from yours and everyone else's. the game isn't required to be reviewed so I gurantee there will be balance questions. Knowing gnr though, he probably uses reviewers.


I did forget about the warning, so yeah my ideas are out ghe window on trying to figure out roles.

[Jake from State Farm]

It also means cards that belong to scum, stay with scum and vice versa.

Would this mean that Safety and Guille are scum since they have Lurker's (flipped scum) claimed cards

Good point. I guess that theory is out

[Jake from State Farm]

If only you spent this much effort trying to find scum. I'm saying that monkey is now confirmed scum, whoever hammers him gets MVP

[Jake from State Farm]

Lol, I'm obv town bro.

[Jake from State Farm]

And you keep ignoring questions, not scum hunting, not defending yourself, and hoping your fake vig claim will somehow prevent your eventual lynch

[Jake from State Farm]

You won't live that long

[Jake from State Farm]

And if you do live that long, my town flip will ensure your death so bring it on punk

[Jake from State Farm]

I'm not predicting my flip, I know I'll flip town. You obviously have a reading problem

[Jake from State Farm]

That's not enough to save you. If you are actually town your going on my blacklist.

[Jake from State Farm]

And you keep ignoring questions, not scum hunting, not defending yourself, and hoping your fake vig claim will somehow prevent your eventual lynch

Start answering questions, start scum hunting, start defending yourself.

If you are town you would be doing these things.

Threatening us with your vig claim is the worst possible thing an actual vig could do.

[Jake from State Farm]

I admit I'm an acquired taste, but at least I put in the effort and my history shows I'm pretty good at catching scum and I'm almost never a detriment to town and I never play against my wincon. If people avoid me for being an asshole, so be it, I can't change my personality

[Jake from State Farm]

Dude, I've told you ghe questions already.

Why did you originally suspect brawl
Why did you originally suspect me
How did my play change

Questions asked by others you ignored.

How did mehndi's defense unravel.

How does someone being on the lurker wagon automatically make them town?

[Jake from State Farm]

*the

[Jake from State Farm]

Those first 3 I want links to posts and/or quotes

[Jake from State Farm]

After that,

Make a case why Xis is scum

[Jake from State Farm]

Why did you originally suspect brawl
*For defending Lurker, who flipped scum.
Why did you originally suspect me
*Jal attacked you, and Jal looks town. You voted safety who looks town.
How did my play change
*You attacked StrangerCoug when he was looking scummy, but once Jal started attacking you you came off as defensive.
Questions asked by others you ignored.

How did mehndi's defense unravel.
*He acted like he had some evidence that he wasn't lying, but that never materialized.

this is a joke post right? this can't be serious

1. Brawl and mehndi out right defended lurker yet mehndi is a town read? This makes no sense. Robert aka Safety was also trying to discreetly prevent a lurker lynch imo

2. Jal never attacked me, unless by attack you mean questioned. As for my vote on Safety being your town read SO what? Neither of these are reasons to suspect someone is scum

3. It's funny you accuse me of being late to the SC accusation party when I started the wagon and your slot was the 5th of the 5 different people to vote SC. I started the wagon, Jal was 2nd, Xis was third, Mehndi was 4th, mehndi drops off and your slot hops on.

(OMG that's twice your slot was late to a growing wagon)

the beauty of it all is you can't even take credit for being on the lurker wagon cause your slot's vote was RVS ROFL!!!

4. can you link me to the post or posts that made you think Mehndi had "evidence" he wasn't lying? Cause I don't recall this at all.

[Jake from State Farm]

That's pretty nifty, how did you make that?

[Jake from State Farm]

Btw, I didn't watch safety dance n1

[Jake from State Farm]

So

[Jake from State Farm]

When I get cards I don't post them, they don't really mean anything.

[Jake from State Farm]

How am I being weird? And what Poe? This may be the first you have shown any suspicion of me. The last time you mentioned my name was you were sad to see me replacing out

[Jake from State Farm]

I personally don't think watchers should cross watch but that's just me

[Jake from State Farm]

Yeah that works.

[Jake from State Farm]

Right, cause if you are town it's obviously our fault and you did nothing wrong

[Jake from State Farm]

dude has ignored my questions and has showed up and put what he thought was an L-1 vote while speaking nonsense, I don't care if you like my vote, he's basically slipped imo

2 slips explained in 1 post. Glad you are reading closely guile.

[Jake from State Farm]

And guile wonders why he's on the short list if vig targets...

[Jake from State Farm]

*of

[Jake from State Farm]

Scumslips are things town wouldn't do and scum does. Those are both scum slips. You disagree? You are entitled.

He's stil ignoring questions, he's not doing anything to help town. He thinks he has found scum but isn't doing anything to convince people to vote with him and he isn't doing anything but waiving his vig claim around to defend himself.

I'm not changing my vote, and contrary to his opinion, if he's town it's nobody's fault but his own.

[Jake from State Farm]

I will follow the plan. Kill Mehdi if town, no one if scum.

I'm at odds with Monkey's slot a bit. He keeps mentioning three scum which is really weird.

Oh by the way, scum slips are mostly bull shit and those aren't scum slips. I have, as scum, accused town of scum slips to get them lynched. So did my partner. In a poly game, someone called their outed lover a "null" read with a hint of being scum earlier in a paragraph, indicating he might have been scum who hadn't paired off yet. Yeah, he was town.

We all have definitions of scumtells. Of course they are subjective to each person but I've seen nothing to suggest he's town.

[Jake from State Farm]

I thought everyone got their card at the beginning of the day

[Jake from State Farm]

Oh wait, safety got lurker's ec card at night.

[Jake from State Farm]

Jal

[Jake from State Farm]

Thought it was pretty obvious who I watched if you read my earlier posts

[Jake from State Farm]

Not according to the mod it doesn't. I asked when safety said who he watched. That's mainly why I replaced back in. I thought for sure I caught safety in a lie but when the mod responded his answer was disappointing.

[Jake from State Farm]

Sup

[Jake from State Farm]

Nobody visited Safety

[Jake from State Farm]

I really thought Jake was going to die tonight.

So did I. I guess guile thinks he can get me lynched.

[Jake from State Farm]

I'll probably read up tomorrow guys been too busy today.

Iirc, guile has a railroad card

And yes the mod is using purple for 2 different properties. My watcher is purple and so is my new card.

[Jake from State Farm]

You forgot about it? But didn't cheer say you were talking in the QT last night?

Anyway, I'm good with mehndi, he's the most obvious partner to lurker.

vote: mehndi

[Jake from State Farm]

But cheery said you posted "stuff" stuff implies more than 1 post.

Either you are lying or cheery has mis-repped your contributions in the QT.

Cheery's exact quote was

I'm in a neighborhood (red cards) with mhork and guille, stuff mhork said in there last night increased the oddness I had been reading from him yesterday on him as he seemed to be contradicting his stance on mehdi in there compared to in thread.

[Jake from State Farm]

2 unclaimed cards?

[Jake from State Farm]

The issue I have is I've never seen a self watcher before. It seems sort of a useless role and doesn't even make sense.

Also if we lynch wrong today we are possibly in lylo tomorrow so if we are thinking about lynching a pr claim it has to be today and not tomorrow.

My gut says its mehndi/guile. Guile would be the only person dumb enough to keep me alive. Unless scum actually got a watcher card which is possible. Only those 2 people would leave me alive IMO.

I guess we wait for Xis and I sure hope whatever he has was worth the wait

[Jake from State Farm]

Never been in a game with deeds before. Your hints at your role are very weak basically unbelievable. Your choice for your "doc" protection was also very strange as I pointed out a while back. I basically don't trust you and haven't really seen anything but scum trying hard to look town.

[Jake from State Farm]

I don't think we have 3 town watchers

[Jake from State Farm]

My doc protection was the guy who died the next night and being a general town read is enough to want to keep him alive. How was I supposed to be more clear with stuff I know there's multiple of the same pr not yet mentioned (that can really only be thought of as me claiming a role that's been claimed) or saying other watchers could exist before we got info on them. A role that becomes useless when claimed is fairly rare so fits that too.

The fact that you used your protection on someone other than Jal makes me lose faith in you being town. Add in you defending lurker and that doesn't make you look any better. Your self watching claim is weak and your breadcrumbs are weaker.

you had no idea what roles town had, you being a self watcher there is no way you could actually assume that the game had another watcher let alone 2 so any reasoning you give for not being on Jal is just horseshit.

[Jake from State Farm]

You realize your not putting it much clearer. I have an on going suspicion of which actions unless you want to just mean in general all. The point of this is the read isn't clear and that's what I'm asking on unless it's bad to want you to clarify your thoughts on a scum read.

I didn't think jal would die n1. She didn't. I thought tbg would die. He gets shot the next night. Is it my job to protect people you think need protecting or just who I personally think is most likely to be killed?

The bread crumbs can't really be clearer when I had to argue it with safety a bit on me claiming isn't good with neutralizing the role.

I did defend lurker. I thought he was town. I gave my reasons why back then as well so if you think it was bad you could have argued it then. Yes they were wrong, but the lurker point the way you have it is it's scummy to be wrong about someone.

why did you think Jal would not die? I certainly did. Also proper play dictates that when there is an obvious town read or a town power, you protect them. Jones wasn't obv own and he certainly wasn't a person I would expect to die night 1. Night 2 is an entirely different scenario.

[Jake from State Farm]

Jake - question: Let's assume Mehdi is lying about going anywhere. Mehdi just stayed home all night and twiddled his thumbs and the next day he lied about using a role. Given what you said above, why do you think scum-him would say TBG instead of me in the first place?

That's a good question, idk really, guess it depends who's his partner and what info they have at their disposal.

Question for you cause I don't remember. Did you have an action night 1 that you used?

[Jake from State Farm]

Well there goes that thought I had

P.edit - that was in response to Jal

[Jake from State Farm]

I was thinking if cheery was scum he RB'd you. But obviously not

In my mind I have 2 possible scum teams. 1 team is based on safety/cheer lying and being scum. I'm less confident in this but it's still in the back of my mind.

[Jake from State Farm]

The 3 of you being town? I find it hard to beleive but I guess it's possible.

P.edit - if they are town than they lied about you not going anywhere.

[Jake from State Farm]

I was thinking if cheery was scum he RB'd you. But obviously not

Wouldn't you have seen it?

Cheery did visit you, that's why I had the thought.

[Jake from State Farm]

Because if false then it implies the claim was orchestrated and it works in their favour if one side appears town to use their power to the benefit of town whilst the hidden one (Xis) remains unclaimed until now, doing whatever it actually is.

P-edit: I did have a valid concern that a vig claim was a sk, it ended up right And Xis

was

correct when he predicted there to be a serial killer.

Not to toot my own horn but pretty sure I calłed the possibility of an SK first.

[Jake from State Farm]

Is it only me that thinks safety's reaction is weird re: xis's claim? Wasn't safety supposed to be watching Jal? If he did he certainly say anything about anyone visiting him (unless I missed it)

[Jake from State Farm]

Oh that's right. Nvm

[Jake from State Farm]

@ Xis - why investigate Baby night 1 instead of SC who you were more suspicious of?

Investigating Jal makes no sense either when mehndi or guile were better options.

I said earlier I saw a lurker/xis connection and this claim really sucks. You definitely made it seem like you caught someone when you started the day. Also your comment about nobody slipping makes no sense because you didn't have a guilty.

The only thing keeping me from voting you right now is because if you were scum, why make this claim like that?

My head hurts now

[Jake from State Farm]

I actually agree, odds are 1 person in your hood is scum. I also lose faith in the mod a little, neighbors are horrible but I guess it makes sense given this game.

I'm suprised this wasn't outed a long time ago.

Which reminds me

@ cheer - can you explain your town read on guile please ?

[Jake from State Farm]

I also want add that guile's reaction to being listed as a potential vig target felt off. It's not how I'd expect town to act.

[Jake from State Farm]

One of the neighborhood probably is scum. I'd bet anything that's true.

Yes gut, my gut says your reaction didn't seem genuine. A townie would have reacted differently. Your calmness would come from scum not trying to overreact.

[Jake from State Farm]

why is that? I have never seen an all town neighborhood before so I have no reason to believe one exists in this game.

I'm fine with you thinking it's odd, but you have to explain why you think it's odd.

p.edit - Mhork was pretty town until a certain post he made at the end of day 2, the one i called him out on. After that post he went back to null/slightly scummy.

Cheery is a slight town read but very slight. If mehndi/you are town than I believe cheery is scum though.

[Jake from State Farm]

quick question guile.

when you replaced in did you think your neighborhood was all town or were you under the impression that it's possible there could be scum in there?

[Jake from State Farm]

why is it weird I am not voting you? I am more suspicious of mehndi and that is where my vote is.

let me ask you something, why on earth would you just park your vote on me yesterday and not really do any campaigning to get me lynched? How does that benefit town?

if you recall that is very similar thing that I was accusing monkey of doing and he flipped scum

He thinks he has found scum but isn't doing anything to convince people to vote with him

[Jake from State Farm]

reading back guile, this is one of the posts that made me suspicious of him, guile is speaking like he knows for a fact Cheery's card is 1 shot but of course cheery doesn't confirm that. It is a very odd interaction.

One of the things that promoted me to think this way is that Waterworks is also a one shot tracker, Right cheery?

I haven't mentioned the limitations on my actions, nor do I plan to. Need to keep scum guessing at some things to do with my cards.

[Jake from State Farm]

dat quote tag messed up

[Jake from State Farm]

Also another thing, in guile's catchup post he pointed to a post that SC made on page 15 and follows it up by saying SC was trying to direct people to vote lurker. But if you actually read pages 15-22 (where SC unvotes lurker) SC doesn't do anything of the sort. I'd almost call it an outright lie.

All SC does is argue about the cards giving power, he never once directs anyone to pit their vote back on him.

[Jake from State Farm]

Back to the neighbor thing.

It's not that weird that the neighbors haven't been killed, neither of the 3 were super town going into night 1. Night 2 mhork/guile looked scummy and cheery was watched (I think that's who safety watched)

The thing that really bugs me about Night 2 is 2 PRs were basically sitting out there with no protection and they kill brawl? Why not Jal? Why not me?

My head hurts every time I think about it. Nobody has given an answer that makes any sense.

[Jake from State Farm]

What do you mean mehndi, about a day one as well?

Lurker said they didn't have day talk, unless he was lying

[Jake from State Farm]

By saying "as well" it implies you know the scum QT already has day talk. If you didn't you wouldn't have added "as well"

[Jake from State Farm]

Hmm

[Jake from State Farm]

If you haven't noticed, the fact I have a result on mhork means it's not 1-shot.

back to this, I was more referring to how he assumed he knew your ability was one shot. Right or wrong, the way he asked it didn't feel right. It was almost like you guys were buddies

[Jake from State Farm]

Mhork, did you go anywhere last night?

[Jake from State Farm]

Well it definitely sounds like he tracked you somewhere. So obviously someone is lying.

Cheery, who did mhork visit?

And if you say he didn't go anywhere I'm policy lynching you for trying to deceive town.

[Jake from State Farm]

Or the tracker claim is a lie

[Jake from State Farm]

vote: cheery

Anyway I tracked mhork during the night and he had a lack of targeting the kill.

this implies you tracked him somewhere

cheery is now confirmed scum

[Jake from State Farm]

Well it definitely sounds like he tracked you somewhere. So obviously someone is lying.

Cheery, who did mhork visit?

And if you say he didn't go anywhere I'm policy lynching you for trying to deceive town.

I wasn't trying to deceive town, I was just stating that I knew I wasn't roleblocked. I'm sorry if my use of 'actual' confused you into thinking that.

bullshit. die now

[Jake from State Farm]

lack of targeting kill means you tracked him somewhere else.

If you got a result that he went nowhere you would have said that he went nowhere.

that is purposefully deceiving town, no matter how you try to backpedal

[Jake from State Farm]

[Jake from State Farm]

lack of targeting kill means you tracked him somewhere else.

If you got a result that he went nowhere you would have said that he went nowhere.

[Jake from State Farm]

lack of targeting kill means you tracked him somewhere else.

If you got a result that he went nowhere you would have said that he went nowhere.

No I would have said that he didn't target the kill.

and you know what, THAT'S WHAT I FUCKING SAID!

you said you didn't see anything with UN

you say "he had a lack of targeting the kill." for mhork

like I said, if you didn't SEE anything, you would have used the same wording like you did with UN and said that you didn't SEE anything with mhork. You didn't do that aka you are....

BUSTED

[Jake from State Farm]

the breaking of plan was suspicious, essentially deceiving town is the nail in the coffin.

[Jake from State Farm]

@Mod: Does watcher watching count as a visit?

~No. Will explain post game~

permission to paraphrase what you told me?

[Jake from State Farm]

yeah, he asked guile and mhork, the 2 smartest people in the game

[Jake from State Farm]

so basically you listened to the person who was suspected as scum and was a potential vig target?

[Jake from State Farm]

Jake, can you explain your stance on Guille-scum? How do you feel about NumberQ's ISO?

couple posts about number that feel weird

I don't see anything inherently wrong with SC's post 257, where he votes Lurker because of Mhork's deconstruction of Lurker's case. Seriously. What the hell was bad about it? Maybe I'm blind but I'm just not seeing it.

it was painfully obvious SC just blindly sheeped mhork, to put a player at L-1. Sure lurker turned out to be scum, regardless of lurker's alignment it was a horrible vote and nothing indicates it was pro town

I still want to look at Mhork and Robert in more detail, and now Baby Spice since I'm seeing people against her, but I'll get to them some other time

The part about baby spice seems odd, it's like he is only interested in looking at people that other people find scummy the motivation behind that doesn't seem town imo

On the other hand, Jal's been pretty convincing with the Baby case, with Baby's statistics and whatnot. So yeah, Baby's my second scum read.

1. he never makes it known he did looked into baby spice's post like he said he would
2. he's blindly sheeping Jal making baby his 2nd bioggest scum read. he doesn't point out what parts of Jal's case he agrees with. and tbh I personally don't think Jal made that good of a case on spice. It seems like he is buddying Jal or trying to anyway.


As for Guile lots of things just rub me the wrong way.

1. saying that SC/myself have to be opposite alignments but when asked to explain why his reason makes no sense
2. the way he basically avoided doing anything useful all of day 2. He basically parked his vote on me for a bad reason and sat there. He didn't really try to convince others to vote me (basically the same thing I accused Monkey of doing, who turned out to be scum)

lso, can you elaborate on this point:

In post 1922, Jake from State Farm wrote:
Also another thing, in guile's catchup post he pointed to a post that SC made on page 15 and follows it up by saying SC was trying to direct people to vote lurker. But if you actually read pages 15-22 (where SC unvotes lurker) SC doesn't do anything of the sort. I'd almost call it an outright lie.

All SC does is argue about the cards giving power, he never once directs anyone to pit their vote back on him.

Guile's exact quote was

SC/Cheery: I started with a scummy read, then that turned town. Post 356 is questioning the claim,then proceeds to direct the votes to Lurker and I think that that in itself is enough to clear him. Cheery dog got his vote remove at the end of the day, Don't know what to think from that.

SC's 356 was this

My interpretation of the claim is that the watcher comes from one of the cards, which, as far as I know, everybody has. If it were not tied to the cards, I don't think he would have claimed "vanilla with a one-shot ability"; I think he would have dropped the "vanilla" qualifier.

The claim itself is not in question as far as I'm concerned

, but the way it's worded, I don't think it warrants an unvote.

He doesn't question the claim first of all (see bolded)
he doesn't really give a good reason why he didn't unvote other than the fact that the possession of the card doesn't indicate alignment, which is a fair point but imo when a person claims a PR day 1 you give them the benefit of the doubt.

secondly guile says that he proceeds to direct the votes to lurker. But this is actually a lie. He doesn't do that at all. That post by SC was made on page 15. I read every single post of SC's from page 15 to page 22 and no where does he direct people to vote lurker. All he does really is talk about the cards. Page 22 SC unvotes lurker. It's like guile just made it up, basically I feel that post about SC from guile is a complete lie.

[Jake from State Farm]

Also another thing, in guile's catchup post he pointed to a post that SC made on page 15 and follows it up by saying SC was trying to direct people to vote lurker. But if you actually read pages 15-22 (where SC unvotes lurker) SC doesn't do anything of the sort. I'd almost call it an outright lie.

It's true that he did not outright request everyone to vote for Lurker, but rather he remain with his vote on Lurker until he found Baby scummier... and he kept saying reasons for which he found Lurker scummy. My interpretation of that is that he wanted him lynched. Then the topic died down and he discussed things with others finding town reads.

I would think that if SC was busing Lurker, he would find someone scummier much more quickly. Though it appears that his motivation for this game was off at the time so that might be the reason.

Unless SC is the kind of player that would buss like this, he is town. I looked back at a game I had with him as scum (Judge, Jury and Executioner) and it was hard for me to notice his aggressiveness towards others. Since it was a game with everyone having three votes, he used that to place votes on some of his buddies. But it doesn't feel the same way. I don't really have time to Meta him though. Maybe later.

where is the reason he gave? because I don't remember any real reason other than him sheeping mhork

[Jake from State Farm]

@ xis - after lurker claimed scum why did you not switch your vote to lurker and also why did you still entertain the idea of lynching Jal?

[Jake from State Farm]

@Mod: If I use a 1 shot power and I am roleblocked, will my card go away?

Mod - can you answer this please?

[Jake from State Farm]

1. Why the hell would you listen to anyone else when we had caught scum
2. That post does imply you want him to atleast make a better case on Jal. That implies you aren't sold on a lurker lynch cause why else would you encourage him?

[Jake from State Farm]

@ xis

The mod even said that the cards were handed out randomly after alignment. This has been discussed already by number iirc

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p4539221

[Jake from State Farm]

^ that's to the link from the theme que.

Here's a link to where number mentioned it - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p4552352

[Jake from State Farm]

The first part of that post seems reluctant. Idk why you would have waited if he admitted he was scum. There should have been no delay putting him to l-2 or even l-1.

As for the neighborhood

I have null/scummy/scum

Mhork/guile/cheery

[Jake from State Farm]

This is going to be a long 2 weeks.

[Jake from State Farm]

vote: mehndi

[Jake from State Farm]

no it hasn't fallen but there is no way I can get him lynched today

[Jake from State Farm]

Going a different route who do you think is town right now?

Second question is independent of the first (related, but main thing is both answered would help a bit).

And the other thing is if cheery is scum how do I work with him at all? Let's see day 2 he claimed something to kill any chances of me saying safety was RB and pretty much helped in the tracker stuff and has seriously voted me I think day 2 and now. The point of this is mainly re-thinking reads (I'm staying with I don't think cheery is very likely scum and based on poe would desire to lynch guille).

Jal and safety I guess

As for cheery/you partners or not idk I'd have to look over both isos. If I concede he was really trying to catch mhork in a slip than he's probably town and its back to you/guile. Possibly Xis instead of guile (doubtful though cause there's no way guile is town

[Jake from State Farm]

I'd much rather be in lylo than mylo. It's easier to find connections

[Jake from State Farm]

I don't think mehndi said that, I did.

[Jake from State Farm]

I only got the 1 card that I already claimed.

[Jake from State Farm]

I've had two orange cards all game. Only power I've had from deeds is 50 percent self watcher (1 shot doc was a chance/chest card).

Why did you say chance/chest instead of just listing the card you had? If you had a chance card no need to write community chest and vice versa

[Jake from State Farm]

I think 1 watcher needs to be on Jal since he's essentially cleared and the other pick whoever they want and let mafia try to guess who he chose.

[Jake from State Farm]

What's the town motivation for telling scum what to do?

Seriously if you aren't scum this game I'm gonna

[Jake from State Farm]

But the grid didn't have him tracking xis. At least not mehndi's grid

[Jake from State Farm]

Oh my bad

[Jake from State Farm]

If mehndi is scum, I'm really wondering about safety. His lack of participation compared to the rest of the game strikes me as odd

[Jake from State Farm]

My statement adds up cause you haven't been posting much since its obvious mehndi is getting lynched. That would mean you are trying to avoid commenting on it. You say you were busy but who knows really.

My phones about to die so can't really read all these posts now

[Jake from State Farm]

What's the town motivation for telling scum what to do?

Seriously if you aren't scum this game I'm gonna

Hey guile. This was directed at you

[Jake from State Farm]

But you specifically put a kill idea out there telling them how to setup another player. Why do that?

[Jake from State Farm]

Additionally, if scum wanted to frame xis, they'd kill cheery and create the above WIFOM.

Why did you toss this idea out? How does do anything but help scum

[Jake from State Farm]

vote: guile

[Jake from State Farm]

I can't speak for others, but posting shit like that is completely unnecessary if you are town. The correct way to play is how I suggested. Have 1 watcher confirm who they are watching while the other doesn't say shit. They have to guess who's going to be watched. The only one who absolutely has to be watched is Jal, who is essentially confirmed town.

Other watcher watches xis, cheery, safety, or someone else.

If mafia knows who is going to be watched it makes their job easier. I'd really say that neither watcher should be guided but that means we could risk watching the same person.

Unless we did this

Safety - watches one of Jal/xis/me

Me - watches one of safety/cheery/mhork

Or something like that

[Jake from State Farm]

Vote count is wrong

[Jake from State Farm]

I just got a 2nd vote. Yay me

[Jake from State Farm]

Mhork and safety, why haven't you guys voted at all?



Does everyone think mehndi is scum?
Who's his partner if he is?
Who's scum if he isn't?
Is there any chance mehndi is town?
Am I the only one who feels scum is complacent right now?

[Jake from State Farm]

Yeah do that cause you haven't done much.

[Jake from State Farm]

I don't really see the Mehdi scum thing. I still don't buy the ninja argument. :/
I need to read better not on a phone.

Once you post sonething significant, I'd like to discuss the fact that it definitely looks like you are sort of lurking through the game and I just checked your iso and you have only voted 2 people all game. That's not something if expect from town. Looking through your iso is pretty useless

[Jake from State Farm]

But nobody said you had to vote mehndi. Voting is the most pro-town action you can do and you have only done it twice all game.

You don't think any of the PRs are lying? Cause if you beleive them all that leaves you and guile as scum and that's game over.

vote: mhork

vote: mhork

Either mhork is scum or his admittance he doesn't care about this game is playing against his win con.

Yes I'm bullheaded. Lets lynch mhork today. Jal can vig mehndi or guile

[Jake from State Farm]

if you are town, yes you are supposed to help find and lynch scum and you aren't doing that. At the very least replace out and let the mod bring in a player who will actually care.

[Jake from State Farm]

Why does the day need to end? You have a shit load of more posting to do.

I want your top 2 scum reads, with the best reasons why.

You are either going to play this game, replace out, or get lynched.

I've seen scum do exactly what you are doing plus your pandering to the PRs.

[Jake from State Farm]

@ mhork - why now do you want to chat with your neighbors tonight when it seems it wasn't top priority for you earlier?

[Jake from State Farm]

Why mehndi over mhork/guile?

I don't understand your town read of guile one bit. He's done absolutely nothing productive IMO.

[Jake from State Farm]

Ebwop- Neither has mhork

[Jake from State Farm]

Anyone else have an opinion on my suggestion about guiding the watchers?

[Jake from State Farm]

So regardless of flip safety watches cheery and I watch safety?

[Jake from State Farm]

Why are you directing people, Medhi? It's a stupid idea that just gives scum more information to go about their business.

He did it the previous day phase and you said nothing, why do you have a problem with it now?

If you think logically it's a good plan but you have to assume both trackers are legit.

Other than that it's a sound plan.

[Jake from State Farm]

so I think I will go ahead and hammer mehndi, the explanation why he should be lynched makes sense and I have been skeptical of him all game. I just want to make sure this is correct

I watch Safety
Safety watches Cheery
and I just want to make sure that cheery and safety don't track the same person

[Jake from State Farm]

Why not vig mhork and track guile?

Mhork is utterly useless if he's town.

[Jake from State Farm]

Re your question about xis - he isn't a town read. He's null

Re the unclaimed card - if it hasn't been claimed by now it's fairly obvious scum has it. I figured as much the last time, not sure why you brought it up again.

How do I gain from somebody hiding a card? I don't understand that

[Jake from State Farm]

1. Poe means xis has to be town, but some of the things he does make me not so sure. Like investigating Jal instead of someone else.

2. I'm confused here. You brought up the point about someone having a card but not claiming it. You brought it up again recently. We realize that whoever has this card is probably scum. I just didn't see the point in bringing it up again. Everyone already had their chance to claim and additional card. I claimed the 1 card I received already, I only received just 1. Nobody bothered to ask me the name so I never mentioned it. Didn't think it's relevant but everyone knows the color. I got States Ave. but like I said the name means nothing.

3. Why am I the only one who would benefit from hiding a card? Why can't mhork, guile, mehndi, cheery, xis, or even you be hiding the card? Whoever has it and is hiding it is the one who has sonething to gain. I don't know why you felt the need to single me out.

Do I have a better suspect to who could be hiding it? Yes mhork, guile, mehndi, cheery, xis, or even you.

In your mind I'm really the only one who could be hiding it? Bullshit

[Jake from State Farm]

I also disagree with safety. Nobody should be making a list of their town/scum reads, especially if we are nearing mylo/lylo time.

[Jake from State Farm]

1. Poe means xis has to be town, but some of the things he does make me not so sure. Like investigating Jal instead of someone else.

2. I'm confused here. You brought up the point about someone having a card but not claiming it. You brought it up again recently. We realize that whoever has this card is probably scum. I just didn't see the point in bringing it up again. Everyone already had their chance to claim and additional card. I claimed the 1 card I received already, I only received just 1. Nobody bothered to ask me the name so I never mentioned it. Didn't think it's relevant but everyone knows the color. I got States Ave. but like I said the name means nothing.

3. Why am I the only one who would benefit from hiding a card? Why can't mhork, guile, mehndi, cheery, xis, or even you be hiding the card? Whoever has it and is hiding it is the one who has sonething to gain. I don't know why you felt the need to single me out.

Do I have a better suspect to who could be hiding it? Yes mhork, guile, mehndi, cheery, xis, or even you.

In your mind I'm really the only one who could be hiding it? Bullshit

What's bullshit is your comprehension skills. You are the better suspect for hiding the card because there is a clear motive for you to do so, one we could have applied to Jal also but we can rule out because of card's she's received. You're not the only suspect, you're not instantly scum now, you're just the only one with a valid reason to hide it. I mean, what reason does anyone, regardless of alignment, have of hiding a card that has no ability to them at the moment? Especially since we've already had all sorts of power roles claimed now. there's no rationale. Again, to reiterate so it hopefully sinks in, that does not make you the only one that may hide it, it gives a reason for you to be the most likely.

I mentioned it four days ago, since then, everyone has ignored the whole post, including the card that's unclaimed. If 7 other people are ignoring the fact, why not bring up that they are ignoring it and try to address the point again, I think its something that needs to be focused on, we've only got a few days remaining for this game day left. You think ignoring it more will suddenly make someone claim, or for other people to notice?

If no ones mentions they think that card is indeed in scum hands, why presume that everyone is presuming the same thing. That's a one-way highway to miscommunication and misinterpretation.

Naming the card, listing the power those cards give you, gives us more information and less information someone else can bullshit later on.

how is my reading comprehension bullshit? No where have you explained why I am the one most likely to be the one hiding a card nor have you explained what you think my motive is.

the fact is I am not hiding any cards and for you to come out and call me the top suspect is bullshit.

as for not hounding people to claim their cards, nobody was doing that, not even you. I assumed everyone playing who is town is reading the game as it develops. If town saw that post and had a card they hadn't claimed yet I assume that town must not have the card. I felt no need to keep asking people when it is obvious that the silence meant it was in the hands of scum.

I felt no need to list the actual name of my card, I mean why does it really matter? The powers of a singular card are already known because Jal would have told us if his singular card had power. You obviously knew that singular card had no power cause you listed it as such under Jal's name. If it had a power i certainly would have shared it but it didn't so i didn't think I had to say "the purple card had no power"

[Jake from State Farm]

I claimed earlier in the day I got a purple card (previously I didn't mention the property name nor did anyone ask me but recently I said the name, States Avenue) . I confirmed that the mod is using purple twice to identify 2 different neighborhoods.

[Jake from State Farm]

According to Safety there is 1 card not claimed, I'm assuming its the 3rd purple card

[Jake from State Farm]

From what I understand there is the brown Vig properties which are purple in the original Monopoly game. Then there are the Violet Charles, State and Virginia ave. properties, one of which is missing. Those last three are the purple ones that Safety is referring too.

When exactly did you receive the purple cars?

The mod called the Baltic/Mediterranean as purple
He also referred to my States avenue as purple. I received my card after I received my night action result 1/26 just after 6 pm.

[Jake from State Farm]

Sweet. Safety watches Jal. Jake watches safety.

Fuck safety. I'm watching who I want and not that moron

[Jake from State Farm]

I'll watch cheery or xis. I'll decide at night after a flip

[Jake from State Farm]

None of that explains why I'm the most likely other than you just picking a name out of a hat which is basically what it looks like you did.

Not watching you isn't game throwing. You aren't a town read of mine anymore so it's anti-town to watch someone I don't think is town.

[Jake from State Farm]

I'm less worried about following a town agreed plan then I am catching scum. I already said at least 1 watcher needs to not announce who he is watching. If scum knows who's being watched its easier to plan their kill. If they have to guess who's being watched then it makes it harder for them.
I don't give a shit if anyone agrees with that plan, that's what I'm doing. You call that game throwing but I call that making scum's job more difficult.

[Jake from State Farm]

I personally don't think jal should be watched but mainly because I find it odd that she is getting so many cards and my paranoia is kicking in. but if that is what is agreed upon than so be it.

and for the sake of getting this day over already I guess I will watch Safety


or will I..... muwahahahaha

[Jake from State Farm]

I'd rather be in lylo/mylo with mehndi over mhork/xis/guile. (Difficult to read, low posters , not uber useful)

But mehndi is the most likely to flip scum.

So whatever

[Jake from State Farm]

This was mehndi's table

Player	Power	Target
Jake	Watcher	Safety/Xis
Safety	Watcher	Cheery/Xis
Safety	Tracker	Cheery
Cheery	Tracker	Xis
Xis	Cop	Safety
Jal	Vig	guille

the new plan is more like this

Player	Power	Target
Jake	Watcher	Safety
Safety	Watcher	Jal
Safety	Tracker	Cheery
Cheery	Tracker	Jake
Xis	Cop	Safety
Jal	Vig	guille

right now we are 6 v 2

No matter what jal should shoot tonight, if mehndi is town it's to town's advantage to be in lylo rather than mylo (less dots you have to connect)

[Jake from State Farm]

I don't remember when we decided that Safety was going to track Cheery. And Xis was supposed to cop Cheery. I think you inverted those.

that was the list mehndi created, all I did was copy and paste and make changes based on the whole Jal thing.

[Jake from State Farm]

Do you recall reading this Jake?

Can you, or someone else, expand on the differences in 2 mylo lynches over 2 lylos lynches and how its an advantage? The way I see it at the moment is there is no differences, you still have to get the lynch right regardless.

Difference between a 2 kill MyLo and a 2 kill Lylo. By 2 kill I am refering to the ability to choose who the Vig Kills.

Mylo is 6 players, 2 of which are mafia. Lylo is 5 players, 2 of which are mafia. If we can kill two players during a day/night transition, in Lylo you cannot miss and hit town. So, if the Lynch is on Scum, then the vig should do nothing, and if the Lynch is on town, the Vig can do nothing.

On Mylo, If you hit Scum in the Lynch, thye vig will either hit scum and win or reduce the play to 3 people. If the Lynch is on Town, then the vig can attempt to shot the Scum and reach a 3 player LyLo. Without the Vig we would lose on Mylo if we lynch town.

I think it's a pretty good explanation, especially since Jal's new information. It's don't vig kill tonight so you can vig kill tomorrow and make sure Jal is there at 3-person lylo.

At least, that's how I see it.

Appreciate the table, so that's the if town flip? What do we do if he flips scum, free for all? :/

somehow I missed this but I still think town has a better chance of narrowing down scum tomorrow if our pool of suspects is smaller. Having to pick 2 scum out of a pool of 5 people is harder than trying to pick 2 scum out of a pool of 4.

The vig is going to shoot either way so I guess it comes down to personal preference. Guile wants us to wait because he doesn't want to die and nothing more, statistically being in lylo tomorrow instead of mylo is better for town in my opinion

[Jake from State Farm]

If mehndi's scum I can't imagine the actions change much.

Jal if she chooses to shoot will still shoot guile (or mhork)
Jal still does her card thing
Safety still watches Jal
I still watch safety
Xis invetigates ?
Safety tracks ?
Cheery tracks ?

[Jake from State Farm]

I think xis should be tracked
Idk who else should. Cheery doesn't want to track mhork again so me or safety I guess.

[Jake from State Farm]

I don't know if everyone said their day 2 results

N1

Safety watched Jal and saw cheery, he also tracked mehndi and he went no where.

Cheery tracked UN and he went no where. He card counted Jal.

I watched Jal and saw cheery

Mehndi supposedly doc'd TBG and can't remember if he did anything else.

Jal & Xis I don't think did anything.

[Jake from State Farm]

N2

I watched safety and saw nothing.
Jal found blue card with TBG
Mehndi self watched
Safety watched cheery and saw nothing I think. Can't remember who he tracked and his result.
Cheery tracked mhork who went no where
Xis cop'd Jal

I may be missing stuff, this is solely off memory

[Jake from State Farm]

Why is Mhork auto-town if Mehdi flips scum?

Because Medhi and LM where both tracked on the same night.

Seems legit

[Jake from State Farm]

Today's the 15th

[Jake from State Farm]

Given all the flipsu suspicions are safety/cheery just cause the whole utility card stuff. I brought this up way back and nobody listened.

Lurker claimed his card was watcher but later messed up and claimed tracker. He also claimed it was 1 shot and neither claimed their tracker cards were 1 shots.

It's a nice ploy but given Poe, it makes sense.

Last night I got 1 orange card, this day phase I got the 2nd orange card. I have the 50% chance to self watch.

Nobody visited safety.

[Jake from State Farm]

You're right, he was supposed to.

[Jake from State Farm]

@ xis - I have no other results cause that's my only action.

vote: xis

[Jake from State Farm]

We aren't no lynching. Xis faked a result, nobody visited safety

[Jake from State Farm]

Xis - how can today be the first time you can use the green card when cheery could use his all game? If I recall its the same card which means the same ability. If yours was limited somehow I would have expected you to question cheery about his card. You didn't at all.

@ Jal - are you saying xis has the unclaimed card from yesterday? It definitely reads that way but just want to make sure.

I also went back and looked at how the mod explained if a player gets RBd and my result definitely means I wasn't RBd.

[Jake from State Farm]

I wasn't told "no result" which means I wasn't blocked which means you are lying. Nice try though. I also could have sworn you got that green card earlier. I'll check when I get to a pc

[Jake from State Farm]

Ok I was confusing you with Jal who also had a light green. My bad on that one

[Jake from State Farm]

I received States avenue (purple) at the beginning of day 3 after I received my night action result.

Not sure what to say about Cheery's result cause I got a result back which means my action went through.

mod - if a tracker tracks a watcher, they will see him go to the person they watch?

[Jake from State Farm]

We are in a pretty good situation right here. It's basically one of myself or xis is lying. We lynch one and if they don't flip scum the other gets shot by Jal.

Cheery's suggestion to NL is bad

[Jake from State Farm]

Who had the missing card?

[Jake from State Farm]

*has

[Jake from State Farm]

So we lynch xis today

[Jake from State Farm]

That hmmm link doesn't work.

Also re: my post about you two, that's just me being honest with how I felt.

So now we have cheery saying I went nowhere but safety saying cheery went nowhere. Xis saying he has an inno on safety yet nobody visited safety.

[Jake from State Farm]

Actually if you are town, scum is cheery/xis cause that means cheery is lying also.

Correct lynch is me or xis. If its me Jal will shoot xis tonight

[Jake from State Farm]

As yoda would say.

Anything see You didn't.

[Jake from State Farm]

I think it's BS that a tracker can't track another tracker. Observation or not, the tracker still leaves his "house" and goes to another player's "house" and that movement should be caught.

A watcher not seeing another watcher I could get because technically a watcher would be watching from a tree or a car or something and never actually approach the player's house.

You should have been able to track cheery if he went somewhere, if the mod didn't do it like this than i am thoroughly annoyed at the mod.

[Jake from State Farm]

As yoda would say.

see anything You didn't.

Damn I fucked up yoda. Fixed my yoda

[Jake from State Farm]

Fine it's back to me vs xis. No worries there

But you bring up a good point about mehndi, if he doc'd someone why did cheery get no result.

[Jake from State Farm]

Oh that was you wasn't it. Well now I'm more confused

[Jake from State Farm]

That's another good point. I'm assuming if I got a 3rd card it would be 100%.

[Jake from State Farm]

Obviously xis can't quote his role pm about the 2 cards but id sure love to heart better explanation. Mine doesn't say granted. I'd also like to know what his cop role name is (unless he said it and I missed it)

[Jake from State Farm]

After I claimed mine's existence, I said I was hoping for it to actually give me a number, but no, it's always been "at least 2", though I only used mine the once.

Who did you use yours on each night?

[Jake from State Farm]

@ xis - there is no way we are both telling the truth. Nobody visited safety, I wasn't roleblocked, you claim an inno on safety

It's not possible.

If scum had a ninja - these PRs would be dead by now
If scum had a redirector - these PRs would be dead by now

You have generally lurked your way through this game and I've definitely read some d1 interactions that make me think you could be buddies with lurker.

We aren't No-lynching

[Jake from State Farm]

I missed the last sentence of that post actually lol, it's too early for me

[Jake from State Farm]

There is potentially 1 scenario where a RB would fit but I need to get to my computer to put it on paper to see if its plausible. I'll be home in about an hour or so

[Jake from State Farm]

the idea I was thinking of didn't work out so yeah I stand by my opinion I don't think there is a RB. The ONLY way there is a RB is if it's one Safety/Cheery/myself because if we are all town and mafia had a RB, they could have easily picked us off by now.

[Jake from State Farm]

@ xis

In vanger mafia you definitely posted more than you have here. You are averaging a post ever 1 and a 1/3 pages. This isn't anything like your town play either.

You also said early on that if I was town we were going to "rock the scumtastic again" however you haven't rocked anything.

Why the lack of posting? Where's the rocking?

[Jake from State Farm]

Nacho is you're still around: Opinion on GreyICE.

[Jake from State Farm]

Holy fuck mhork and xis where you at?

At least xis hasn't really posted on site since his last post the but mhork posted everywhere else but here yesterday.

We are near mylo/lylo situation and you are lurking? Seriously if either if you are town so help me...

[Jake from State Farm]

I have no idea what any of these posts mean but I'm thoroughly entertained and will change my avatar when I get to a pc

[Jake from State Farm]

I saw a result n1

[Jake from State Farm]

I would love for you to share your working out too, please.

I was looking at who was being tracked and watched each night to see if there was some sort of loop hole that would prevent a blocker from blocking me or jal but I didn't see one.

the fact that all these PRs are being left alive just makes me feel in my gut that one of them is scum but I could be wrong.