Khan's Wacky Xylbot Mafia (Mini 1418) - Game Over
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wind-up
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wind-up Goon
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!vote The Mini-Librarian
As Leafsnail has pointed out, he seems to be searching for anti-town or unproductive behaviour instead of scummy behaviour.
In post 331, Zang wrote:People are calling you scum because almost all of your questions are to some extent saying "why am I scummy for doing this? I do this in all my games."
How is this indicative of alignment? That's just self meta. If she claims to do it in all her games, it should be easy enough to check.
In post 331, Zang wrote:Besides, defending yourself is not scumhunting.
Attacking someone and then not expecting them to defend themselves is unreasonable. Do you agree?-
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wind-up Goon
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In post 352, Zang wrote:Scooby- I don't disagree with your case but I would like to allow luckyjt to try and post content before he is lynched.
wind-up wrote:How is this indicative of alignment? That's just self meta. If she claims to do it in all her games, it should be easy enough to check.
Regardless of whether the meta is even true, it's scummy that he is using meta to justify anti-town behavior.
jus·ti·fy
/ˈjəstəˌfī/
Verb
1. Show or prove to be right or reasonable.
2. Be a good reason for.
I don't think Katsuki is using meta to 'justify' his 'anti-town behaviour'. I think Katsuki is using meta to show that what you are calling 'anti-town behaviour' is simply a feature of his play. Would you mind giving an example of where you think Katsuki has used meta to justify anti-town behaviour, or if you concede my point, show where he's used meta in a scummy or bad way?
In post 352, Zang wrote:It is also scummy that, rather than by attempting to show the pro-town motivation in his posts, [Katsuki] tries to dismiss the cases against him with meta.
No, it's just lazy. Would it make a difference if someone other than Katsuki dismissed the cases against Katsuki based on Katsuki's meta? If so, why?
In post 352, Zang wrote:wind-up wrote:Attacking someone and then not expecting them to defend themselves is unreasonable. Do you agree?
What does this have to do with what you quoted?
Would you mind answering the question first?
In post 353, Voidedmafia wrote:In post 351, wind-up wrote:How is this indicative of alignment? That's just self meta. If she claims to do it in all her games, it should be easy enough to check.
And yet that's the best she can come up with? I mean, I won't try to say that her pleading, "It's what I do!" hasn't been able to get her out of rough spots or win her games, but she wouldn't be able to win scummies if that was ALL to her play, and I would expect her to be able to do more.
This sounds like a fallacious appeal to accomplishment to me.-
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wind-up Goon
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In post 433, Voidedmafia wrote:I don't get scooby's cases at all (or at least the one on kthnx) as they seem to be missing certain bits of information (intentionally or not) that completely changes the actual conclusion that should be reached.
Is he suppressing evidence or is it confirmation bias?Staying put means giving up.-
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wind-up Goon
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wind-up Goon
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In post 434, wind-up wrote:In post 433, Voidedmafia wrote:I don't get scooby's cases at all (or at least the one on kthnx) as they seem to be missing certain bits of information (intentionally or not) that completely changes the actual conclusion that should be reached.
Is he suppressing evidence or is it confirmation bias?
In post 435, Voidedmafia wrote:I honeslt don't know.
:/
In post 437, Leafsnail wrote:In post 426, MrObvious wrote:Seriously, would a scum doctor claim Mafia Juggernaut?
Would a town doctor claim mafia juggernaut?
The answer is no, it's only something mafia would do for stupid WIFOM purposes.
:/
I've worn myself out quote striping at Zang. :/Staying put means giving up.-
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wind-up Goon
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In post 480, Katsuki wrote:So it seems whenever I've been trying to open up ms, page is either broken or eaten by tigers.
I know, right?Staying put means giving up.-
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wind-up Goon
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In post 455, Zang wrote:wind-up wrote:Doesn't it? If Katsuki is anti-town as both town and scum, how is acting anti-town not a null tell for him?
I never said it was. I'm saying that it's scummy to use meta to justify it.
Well... it's not. DX
In post 455, Zang wrote:wind-up wrote:Yes.
Then is there a reason why my read on katsuki is the only thing that you are responding to from the rest of the game? Do you have any reads?
Other than this discussion with me, it doesn't really seem like you are doing anything.
This discussion is taking up too much time. I was responding to your read on Katsuki because it was -- is -- poorly justified, and that seemed at odds with your manner, so I decided to press the issue and try and deduce whether your read arose from maliciousness or ignorance (for want of a better word). Whilst your obstinacy and lack of emotiveness make that hard to judge, I do think you're scummy for 'not accepting' laziness as an excuse for anti-town behaviour, and for saying 'defending yourself is not scumhunting'.
I do have other reads, I'll get to them soon.
In post 455, Zang wrote:Wind-up wrote:Why, exactly?
There is no pro-town motivation for being lazy and it is used too often as an excuse for anti-town behavior, especially by scum.
No pro-town motivation doesn't mean town don't do it. And the claim "laziness is used too often as an excuse for anti-town behaviour" needs to be addressed on a case-by-case basis, considering it's a playstyle issue and saying "especially by scum" doesn't cut it.
In post 455, Zang wrote:wind-up wrote:Ah, that clarifies things. How could Katsuki have defended against #134 in a pro-town way, then (as opposed to his defence in #136)? Can you give an example?
As I already stated, Katsuki could have explained how his previous posts were town motivated or instead, he could have asked for leafsnail to explain his case more so that he could address the specific issues that leafsnail had against him.
I think it's up to Leafsnail to explain how Katsuki's previous posts were scum motivated, but I concede that asking Leafsnail to elaborate would be a good idea.
In post 455, Zang wrote:wind-up wrote:Then I think it's unreasonable that you criticised Katsuki as you did in my second quote of #331.
I didn't quote you at all in that post but I don't find anything that I said in that post to be unreasonable.
Apologies. That post number should be #351.Staying put means giving up.-
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wind-up Goon
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In post 455, Zang wrote:Do you have any reads?
I think both MrObvious and xRECKONERx are pretty town, mainly due to the circumstances around their claim. Reck's because Reincarnator is an explicitly town role; so he can't be scum if he is a Reincarnator; so he can only be scum if he's fakeclaiming Reincarnator, and I don't think that's likely for two reasons: firstly, I have a gut feeling that the self-voting fracas came from town; secondly, Reincarnator is a risky claim for scum firstly because there's no towncred to be gained from outright claiming it and indeed it could be considered a bad idea to claim it given that it opens you up to kills from other scumteams (if there's more than one, which Katsuki's testsetups show is likely). MrObvious' claim I also think is likely town, but this is a lot more gut based: basically, he sounds sincerely frustrated and the breadcrumbing seems way too convoluted to come from scum.
The board is crashing too frequently at the moment for me to work productively so I'll come back to my reads on other players once it clears up a little.Staying put means giving up.-
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wind-up Goon
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wind-up Goon
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wind-up Goon
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wind-up Goon
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In post 514, Zang wrote:wind-up wrote:Well... it's not. DX
Why not? What don't you understand about what I said previously?
I don't not understand anything. I think we're not going to reach agreement here.
In post 514, Zang wrote:wind-up wrote:and for saying 'defending yourself is not scumhunting'.
How is that scummy? It is true. scumhunting and defending yourself are not the same thing. The can sometimes be done simultaneously but they are not the same thing.
In post 331, Zang wrote:Katsuki wrote:I question scummy and dumb people who call me scum, get called scum for "defending".
No, people aren't calling you scum because you are defending yourself. People are calling you scum because almost all of your questions are to some extent saying "why am I scummy for doing this? I do this in all my games."
Besides, defending yourself is not scumhunting.
Here when you say "besides, defending yourself is not scumhunting" you seem to be saying to Katsuki that he shouldn't be defending himself; he should be scumhunting instead. So it's scummy that you later say "I believe that it is completely unreasonable to attack somebody and not give them the chance to defend themselves."Staying put means giving up.-
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wind-up Goon
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wind-up Goon
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wind-up Goon
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In post 638, Zang wrote:wind-up wrote:Here when you say "besides, defending yourself is not scumhunting" you seem to be saying to Katsuki that he shouldn't be defending himself; he should be scumhunting instead. So it's scummy that you later say "I believe that it is completely unreasonable to attack somebody and not give them the chance to defend themselves."
That's not at all what I meant. Katsuki said that people think she is scum for scumhunting, when I ask her why, she says that she gets called scum for defending. Here, I was trying to point out that her explanation did not answer my original question.
What original question?Staying put means giving up.-
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wind-up Goon
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I haven't gone into depth on too many other players yet because I like to think that on the off chance I'm getting things right I might as well not say much in an effort to stick around. ^__^
That said, I'm not particularly averse to any of the other current wagons except Kthxbye's. And scooby's, I guess, but to a much lesser degree.Staying put means giving up.-
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wind-up Goon
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wind-up Goon
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wind-up Goon
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wind-up Goon
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wind-up Goon
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In post 898, Shmugen wrote:Mafia theory is fine when others are ignoring it, people being anti-town need to be told as such, and he never explained why my reasons were bad.
Oh, sorry. I forgot to mention a complete lack of scumhunting. You post mafia theory and tell people they're anti-town instead of scumhunting.
Your reads were bad because you said your read on The Mini-Librarian was 'not thrilled' and then went on to talk about whether a TML flip or a scooby flip would be more informative. You imply that scooby deserves to be lynched as much as TML because although his flip would be less informative, his 'general attitude' makes him worthy of death.Staying put means giving up.-
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wind-up Goon
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In post 907, Shmugen wrote:I'm not calling anyone super scummy because I don't have particularly strong feelings on anyone, not strong enough to defend their inevitable request for a case.
serrapaladin wrote:That reaction by Shmugen, despite admitting to limited usefulness for now, strikes me as townie.
Just because Shmugen admitted to doing something scummy doesn't make him town. He doesn't have 'particularly strong feelings on anyone' because he knows their alignments.
This is 100% classic scum demotivation.Staying put means giving up.-
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wind-up Goon
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In post 912, Aj The Epic wrote:For all intensive purposes, I was under the assumption I had been hammered the day before.
By the way, it's 'for all intents and purposes'. Just saving you a bit of embarrassment later on in life.Staying put means giving up.-
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wind-up Goon
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wind-up Goon
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wind-up Goon
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wind-up Goon
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In post 997, shos wrote:why do you think shmugen's thingie was wrong?
Because he was really scummy. -__-Staying put means giving up.-
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wind-up Goon
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In post 440, shos wrote:Are you.fucking kidding me. Scooby s town. Kthx is scum. Just read last page, wtf.
He claims to have not understood the crumbs and just "guessed" correcyly that he will flip doc. He also said that if he is really a doc - then.he.sjould self hammee???
Wtf.
I'm voting you because I think you and scooby have scumbuddyesque interactions.Staying put means giving up.-
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wind-up Goon
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In post 1038, serrapaladin wrote:Wind-up was around for ages after I popcorned the claim to him...
Uh, no I wasn't.
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I'm a Cheater. Each night I learn the role PM of a random role in the setup, but not who has it. Night 1 I received an Ascetic role PM, last night I received a Super-Saint role PM.Staying put means giving up.-
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wind-up Goon
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If serrapaladin came back as a Wolf or a Mafioso, we could be in MYLO and lose if we mislynch wrong (or even if we mislynch right?).
In that case, I think we should go for a shos/Aj lynch and a serra poison (I do think serra is scummy anyway, especially with that "Wind-up was around for ages after I popcorned the claim to him" which is utterly false considering 1) I typically login with 'Hide my online status' checked -- granted, I'm not at the moment -- and 2) serrapaladin's post popcorning the claim to me was at 4 am in the morning, at which time I was very soundly asleep.)
I'm going to talk more about why I think shos is scum soon.Staying put means giving up.-
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wind-up Goon
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I'm not cleared (my role can also go to Mafia and Mafia-ally), but Leafsnail almost certainly is. (He could be a Survivor, I guess, but it's unlikel.)
serrapaladin wrote:Meh, I'm in a different timezone and before I posted 1038, I checked your "last logged in," which was after my claim.
That's odd.Staying put means giving up.-
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wind-up Goon
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wind-up Goon
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wind-up Goon
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wind-up Goon
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wind-up Goon
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wind-up Goon
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wind-up Goon
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Actually this is super dodgy considering Kthx hasn't confirmed poisoning Aj.Staying put means giving up.-
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wind-up Goon
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wind-up Goon
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wind-up Goon
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wind-up Goon
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wind-up Goon
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wind-up Goon
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wind-up Goon
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wind-up Goon
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wind-up Goon
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wind-up Goon
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Is nobody gonna take me up for a game on #mafia? We're all here. Go to http://webchat.globalgamers.net/ and under channels type #mafia.Staying put means giving up.-
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wind-up Goon
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wind-up Goon
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wind-up
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