Khan's Wacky Xylbot Mafia (Mini 1418) - Game Over

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Hi!

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!vote The Mini-Librarian

As Leafsnail has pointed out, he seems to be searching for anti-town or unproductive behaviour instead of scummy behaviour.

People are calling you scum because almost all of your questions are to some extent saying "why am I scummy for doing this? I do this in all my games."

How is this indicative of alignment? That's just self meta. If she claims to do it in all her games, it should be easy enough to check.

Besides, defending yourself is not scumhunting.

Attacking someone and then not expecting them to defend themselves is unreasonable. Do you agree?

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Scooby- I don't disagree with your case but I would like to allow luckyjt to try and post content before he is lynched.

How is this indicative of alignment? That's just self meta. If she claims to do it in all her games, it should be easy enough to check.

Regardless of whether the meta is even true, it's scummy that he is using meta to justify anti-town behavior.

jus·ti·fy
/ˈjəstəˌfī/
Verb
1. Show or prove to be right or reasonable.
2. Be a good reason for.

I don't think Katsuki is using meta to 'justify' his 'anti-town behaviour'. I think Katsuki is using meta to show that what you are calling 'anti-town behaviour' is simply a feature of his play. Would you mind giving an example of where you think Katsuki has used meta to justify anti-town behaviour, or if you concede my point, show where he's used meta in a scummy or bad way?

It is also scummy that, rather than by attempting to show the pro-town motivation in his posts, [Katsuki] tries to dismiss the cases against him with meta.

No, it's just lazy. Would it make a difference if someone other than Katsuki dismissed the cases against Katsuki based on Katsuki's meta? If so, why?

Attacking someone and then not expecting them to defend themselves is unreasonable. Do you agree?

What does this have to do with what you quoted?

Would you mind answering the question first?

How is this indicative of alignment? That's just self meta. If she claims to do it in all her games, it should be easy enough to check.

And yet that's the best she can come up with? I mean, I won't try to say that her pleading, "It's what I do!" hasn't been able to get her out of rough spots or win her games, but she wouldn't be able to win scummies if that was ALL to her play, and I would expect her to be able to do more.

This sounds like a fallacious appeal to accomplishment to me.

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I don't get scooby's cases at all (or at least the one on kthnx) as they seem to be missing certain bits of information (intentionally or not) that completely changes the actual conclusion that should be reached.

Is he suppressing evidence or is it confirmation bias?

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Spoiler: Quote striping @ Zang

I don't think Katsuki is using meta to 'justify' his 'anti-town behaviour'. I think Katsuki is using meta to show that what you are calling 'anti-town behaviour' is simply a feature of his play. Would you mind giving an example of where you think Katsuki has used meta to justify anti-town behaviour, or if you concede my point, show where he's used meta in a scummy or bad way?

Anti-town behavior is anti-town behavior, it does not matter if it is a part of his normal play and Katsuki is still using meta to justify it.

Doesn't it? If Katsuki is anti-town as both town and scum, how is acting anti-town not a null tell for him?

Does this mean that you think that Katsuki is town?

Not really. I'm not very sure of his alignment at all.

Also, have you completely read the rest of the game?

Yes.

No, it's just lazy. Would it make a difference if someone other than Katsuki dismissed the cases against Katsuki based on Katsuki's meta? If so, why?

Laziness might be a possible town motivation for doing it. However, scum definitely have the most motivation to do it. Katsuki can just point to his town meta as scum and be excused from scummy actions.

Then pointing to his town meta as scum becomes part of his meta. Is pointing to his town meta as scum part of his meta?

Besides, I do not accept laziness as a valid excuse for anti-town behavior.

Why, exactly?

I don't really care about the meta. If someone else pointed out the meta and Katsuki chose to defend himself in a pro-town way, than I would not find him nearly as scummy. However, if someone else pointed out the meta and Katsuki still dismissed the case against himself, then he would still be scummy.

Ah, that clarifies things. How could Katsuki have defended against #134 in a pro-town way, then (as opposed to his defence in #136)? Can you give an example?

Would you mind answering the question first?

I believe that it is completely unreasonable to attack somebody and not give them the chance to defend themselves.

Then I think it's unreasonable that you criticised Katsuki as you did in my second quote of #331.

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I don't get scooby's cases at all (or at least the one on kthnx) as they seem to be missing certain bits of information (intentionally or not) that completely changes the actual conclusion that should be reached.

Is he suppressing evidence or is it confirmation bias?

I honeslt don't know.

:/

Seriously, would a scum doctor claim Mafia Juggernaut?

Would a town doctor claim mafia juggernaut?

The answer is no, it's only something mafia would do for stupid WIFOM purposes.

:/

I've worn myself out quote striping at Zang. :/

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So it seems whenever I've been trying to open up ms, page is either broken or eaten by tigers.

I know, right?

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Doesn't it? If Katsuki is anti-town as both town and scum, how is acting anti-town not a null tell for him?

I never said it was. I'm saying that it's scummy to use meta to justify it.

Well... it's not. DX

Yes.

Then is there a reason why my read on katsuki is the only thing that you are responding to from the rest of the game? Do you have any reads?

Other than this discussion with me, it doesn't really seem like you are doing anything.

This discussion is taking up too much time. I was responding to your read on Katsuki because it was -- is -- poorly justified, and that seemed at odds with your manner, so I decided to press the issue and try and deduce whether your read arose from maliciousness or ignorance (for want of a better word). Whilst your obstinacy and lack of emotiveness make that hard to judge, I do think you're scummy for 'not accepting' laziness as an excuse for anti-town behaviour, and for saying 'defending yourself is not scumhunting'.

I do have other reads, I'll get to them soon.

Why, exactly?

There is no pro-town motivation for being lazy and it is used too often as an excuse for anti-town behavior, especially by scum.

No pro-town motivation doesn't mean town don't do it. And the claim "laziness is used too often as an excuse for anti-town behaviour" needs to be addressed on a case-by-case basis, considering it's a playstyle issue and saying "especially by scum" doesn't cut it.

Ah, that clarifies things. How could Katsuki have defended against #134 in a pro-town way, then (as opposed to his defence in #136)? Can you give an example?

As I already stated, Katsuki could have explained how his previous posts were town motivated or instead, he could have asked for leafsnail to explain his case more so that he could address the specific issues that leafsnail had against him.

I think it's up to Leafsnail to explain how Katsuki's previous posts were scum motivated, but I concede that asking Leafsnail to elaborate would be a good idea.

Then I think it's unreasonable that you criticised Katsuki as you did in my second quote of #331.

I didn't quote you at all in that post but I don't find anything that I said in that post to be unreasonable.

Apologies. That post number should be #351.

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Do you have any reads?

I think both MrObvious and xRECKONERx are pretty town, mainly due to the circumstances around their claim. Reck's because Reincarnator is an explicitly town role; so he can't be scum if he is a Reincarnator; so he can only be scum if he's fakeclaiming Reincarnator, and I don't think that's likely for two reasons: firstly, I have a gut feeling that the self-voting fracas came from town; secondly, Reincarnator is a risky claim for scum firstly because there's no towncred to be gained from outright claiming it and indeed it could be considered a bad idea to claim it given that it opens you up to kills from other scumteams (if there's more than one, which Katsuki's testsetups show is likely). MrObvious' claim I also think is likely town, but this is a lot more gut based: basically, he sounds sincerely frustrated and the breadcrumbing seems way too convoluted to come from scum.

The board is crashing too frequently at the moment for me to work productively so I'll come back to my reads on other players once it clears up a little.

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@Mod: Katsuki appears in the latest votecount twice, and serrapaladin is not listed at all. Is this an error?

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I plan to post more in a couple of hours.

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Catching up now.

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Well... it's not. DX

Why not? What don't you understand about what I said previously?

I don't not understand anything. I think we're not going to reach agreement here.

and for saying 'defending yourself is not scumhunting'.

How is that scummy? It is true. scumhunting and defending yourself are not the same thing. The can sometimes be done simultaneously but they are not the same thing.

I question scummy and dumb people who call me scum, get called scum for "defending".

No, people aren't calling you scum because you are defending yourself. People are calling you scum because almost all of your questions are to some extent saying "why am I scummy for doing this? I do this in all my games."

Besides, defending yourself is not scumhunting.

Here when you say "besides, defending yourself is not scumhunting" you seem to be saying to Katsuki that he shouldn't be defending himself; he should be scumhunting instead. So it's scummy that you later say "I believe that it is completely unreasonable to attack somebody and not give them the chance to defend themselves."

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Shmugen, what do you think of The Mini-Librarian?

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Whoa, nelly.

Reading.

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VOTE: Aj_The_Epic

Seems like the best shot, I've been wavering on my The_Mini-Librarian read but Aj's reasons for voting Zang are very shallow. One of them's likely scum.

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Here when you say "besides, defending yourself is not scumhunting" you seem to be saying to Katsuki that he shouldn't be defending himself; he should be scumhunting instead. So it's scummy that you later say "I believe that it is completely unreasonable to attack somebody and not give them the chance to defend themselves."

That's not at all what I meant. Katsuki said that people think she is scum for scumhunting, when I ask her why, she says that she gets called scum for defending. Here, I was trying to point out that her explanation did not answer my original question.

What original question?

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I haven't gone into depth on too many other players yet because I like to think that on the off chance I'm getting things right I might as well not say much in an effort to stick around. ^__^

That said, I'm not particularly averse to any of the other current wagons except Kthxbye's. And scooby's, I guess, but to a much lesser degree.

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Voidedmafia why exactly is that a scummy thing to say?

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I think you're scummy for thinking that's scummy.

Someone should adjudicate.

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It was me, too. Sorry about that. I PM'ed my vote to the mod in the night asking why it didn't count -- I'd used the traditional VOTE: player syntax. :(

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!vote Shmugen

Fairly convinced he's scum. Mafia theory plus criticising people for being anti-town plus bad reads kind of form the cornerstone of faking scumhunting.

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Mafia theory is fine when others are ignoring it, people being anti-town need to be told as such, and he never explained why my reasons were bad.

Oh, sorry. I forgot to mention a complete lack of scumhunting. You post mafia theory and tell people they're anti-town instead of scumhunting.

Your reads were bad because you said your read on The Mini-Librarian was 'not thrilled' and then went on to talk about whether a TML flip or a scooby flip would be more informative. You imply that scooby deserves to be lynched as much as TML because although his flip would be less informative, his 'general attitude' makes him worthy of death.

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I'm not calling anyone super scummy because I don't have particularly strong feelings on anyone, not strong enough to defend their inevitable request for a case.

That reaction by Shmugen, despite admitting to limited usefulness for now, strikes me as townie.

Just because Shmugen admitted to doing something scummy doesn't make him town. He doesn't have 'particularly strong feelings on anyone' because he knows their alignments.

This is 100% classic scum demotivation.

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For all intensive purposes, I was under the assumption I had been hammered the day before.

By the way, it's 'for all intents and purposes'. Just saving you a bit of embarrassment later on in life.

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I'm very happy with the way things have turned out. There is no way Shmugen is not scum.

PEDIT: You're siblings with The Mini-Librarian, then?

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Holy mackerel.

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Is there any chance Shmugen's flip could be a lie? Could he be mafia or a wolf that flipped town? I'm serious.

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+wind-up {

dymyshottyizsik

}
+Kthxbye
+Leafsnail
+Aj_The_Epic {

Luckyjt

}
+shos
+serrapaladin {

xRECKONERx

}

VOTE: shos

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why do you think shmugen's thingie was wrong?

Because he was really scummy. -__-

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Are you.fucking kidding me. Scooby s town. Kthx is scum. Just read last page, wtf.

He claims to have not understood the crumbs and just "guessed" correcyly that he will flip doc. He also said that if he is really a doc - then.he.sjould self hammee???

Wtf.

I'm voting you because I think you and scooby have scumbuddyesque interactions.

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Whoops, quoted the wrong post.

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Wind-up was around for ages after I popcorned the claim to him...

Uh, no I wasn't.

-

I'm a Cheater. Each night I learn the role PM of a random role in the setup, but not who has it. Night 1 I received an Ascetic role PM, last night I received a Super-Saint role PM.

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If serrapaladin came back as a Wolf or a Mafioso, we could be in MYLO and lose if we mislynch wrong (or even if we mislynch right?).

In that case, I think we should go for a shos/Aj lynch and a serra poison (I do think serra is scummy anyway, especially with that "Wind-up was around for ages after I popcorned the claim to him" which is utterly false considering 1) I typically login with 'Hide my online status' checked -- granted, I'm not at the moment -- and 2) serrapaladin's post popcorning the claim to me was at 4 am in the morning, at which time I was very soundly asleep.)

I'm going to talk more about why I think shos is scum soon.

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I'm not cleared (my role can also go to Mafia and Mafia-ally), but Leafsnail almost certainly is. (He could be a Survivor, I guess, but it's unlikel.)

Meh, I'm in a different timezone and before I posted 1038, I checked your "last logged in," which was after my claim.

That's odd.

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*unlikely

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What are you talking about?

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Serra needs to be poisoned because then there is 100% certainty that after he dies there's only one member of any scumteam left.

We need to lynch scum today; that's shos and you. We lynch the other tomorrow for great victory.

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Actually, yeah, that makes sense. We'll have won by tomorrow, then?

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i.e. vote shos

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!vote shos

(forgot to use the proper syntax AGAIN)

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!vote shos

Actually this is super dodgy considering Kthx hasn't confirmed poisoning Aj.

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My bad if my hurry to lynch shos just lost us the game.

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Did you poison him before serra's hammer?

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You better have.

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It shouldn't matter, really. If you're alive tomorrow with three players, you can lynch one and poison the other.

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Oh, okay. Are you an SK?

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If so, commiserations.

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I wouldn't. Ergo, a townie is me.

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Anyway, I say we celebrate the imminent win with a game at #mafia.

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Except no, because I'm not scum.

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Being scum with Leafsnail would be glorious right now though.

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Nobody's gonna take me up on my offer to play at #mafia? .__.

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I am not Mafia or Mafia-ally, I am a Town Cheater.

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Yes um but no. Clearing Leafsnail == autoloss if I was mafia.

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Is nobody gonna take me up for a game on #mafia? We're all here. Go to http://webchat.globalgamers.net/ and under channels type #mafia.

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Is it a bad time of day for y'all?

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Australian.

:(

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what.

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My Cheater role gave me my own role.

._______.

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VOTE: serrapaladin

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!vote serrapaladin

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You were a double voter?

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.________.

Were you scum with Aj?

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Were you two both survivors????

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What role do you have?

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So wind-up, what's up with your super-saint result claim?

Presumably it means that Leafsnail is a Super-Saint.

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DXXXXXXXXX

JUST MY LUCK ASDFSDFDGSFG

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OF COURSE SERRAPALADIN HAD TO COME BACK AS A DOUBLE VOTER

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http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/tTXVWXDvMDdw

^ me AGONISING about the 3p lylo

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Oh man, I was going to pull off sweet moves. But then serrapaladin was a doublevoter. Fffff.

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Why are you apologising? >.>

I think I deserve the Unintentionally Funniest Performance in a Losing Cause award.

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Ah well, I understand that this was bastard/hard to win, I think I played pretty darn well.

Enjoyed the game, I hope you enjoy me being silly in my QuickTopic.

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And good modding, too.

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Thanks, KK. Yeah, that was classic Xylbot.

I was all like 'muahahaha let's subtly manipulate Leafsnail into thinking Aj was Pillar of the Community' and then serra swoops in and doublevotes me and I'm like ':('.

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I knew Leafsnail wouldn't be convinced though. >.>

In actuality, the Cheater claim was a mistake. Ah well.

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I was a Role Cop though, not a Cheater.

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I did.