MINI 1423 Dark Souls: Prepare to die....YOU DIED

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #5 (isolation #0) » Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:42 pm

Vote: VP Baltar

i was really looking forward to playing with him and i realize this is going to bias any read that i might have on him. so, it's probably best if we policy speed-lynch him before he posts and blows me away. if he flips scum, we got scum VP Baltar. if he flips town, then I won't be killed during the night so I will be able to reanalyze and fix things tomorrow.

anyone who doesn't agree with this line of logic is probably scum.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #11 (isolation #1) » Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:24 pm

Unvote, Vote: SaintKerrigan

i was going to yell at people for ignoring my opening
but then you had to be scum and ruin it all

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #24 (isolation #2) » Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:50 pm

i haven't seen a daykill gambit work in a long time
but tiger's town as hell, you can stop fucking with him now

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #86 (isolation #3) » Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:19 pm

lev, i'm willing. let's talk.
i don't want to fuck around with your meta at the moment, but you can help me do some cool shit in thread in the meantime.
sound good?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #88 (isolation #4) » Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:28 pm

i will listen to every word you write, and i will think on every word you write.
i promise.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #123 (isolation #5) » Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:00 pm

In post 34, Human Destroyer wrote:I mean, self-voting is anti-town but what's the scum motivation for it?

nothing. but it's like, free wagon. might as well take it.

In post 38, Iecerint wrote:Tigerzone was scummy for jumping on that point overstrongly, but I agree about the daykill gambit response business, given how quick he was to respond.

and he's still #2 scummiest despite of that?

In post 42, Iecerint wrote:1. Tiger is probably town, perceived-scumminess on my part notwithstanding.

then why did you call him one of the scummiest

In post 48, FourTrouble wrote:This guy is not reading the game carefully or giving it much though, and his vote on me is looking more and more contrived.

not reading the game and thinking enough?
or is he just scum?

In post 92, leviathan93 wrote:also note that i am a bit suspicious of the possible buddying going on here. since no one else is thinking the way you are.

hello this is town as fuck
the entire town is mobilizing against him, and one guy comes up like "hey, i'll listen to you and be your friend! let's talk!", and his first response is "you are possibly buddying me."

In post 113, RestFermata wrote:I kinda sorta agree about nacho. What he's doing could be considered buddying up to Lev, and it seems to be working. If Lev is town I'd say that nacho is much more likely to be scum. I think the probability of their both being scum is very low.

i am buddying up to lev, jesus
why does it make me scum?

In post 122, Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:
In post 121, VP Baltar wrote:Who're you reading as scum though.

unvote, vote:ddd

PP: can pretty confidently state you're wrong on this one. Also you're either out of touch or scum; old town VPB would've come harder than this.

you didn't answer his question
and old town VPB is sort of irrelevant right now, don't you agree?

Vote: DDD

restfermata is also scum

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #128 (isolation #6) » Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:09 pm

In post 125, jasonT1981 wrote:Happywith my vote on 4trouble right now, his reaction to Ice was LOLscummy

and what about other things?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #154 (isolation #7) » Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:14 pm

In post 153, RestFermata wrote:While being respectful is always good, buddying up is anti-town. It's not that hard to figure out. Scum want town players to support them, and they also want town players to go down if they get lynched, which is good for buddying up. I think that your buddying looks more like the first scenario, as it seems too blatant to be the second. (Maybe I'm wrong, maybe it's WIFOM, but you have to know how to outguess people from time to time when you are scumhunting.) Town-aligned players don't really have a good reason to buddy up to specific players in the town. It's not a pro-town thing to do. So it's scummy. Get it now?

wow this is a bunch of reasons for you to vote me instead of chilling on an easy lynch
so, um.
why are you chilling on an easy lynch?
and why haven't you commented on the DDD awesomewagon?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #156 (isolation #8) » Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:28 pm

In post 155, RestFermata wrote:Because I think lev is scummy, and my suspicions of buddying only make sense if lev is town. I'm not convinced of that.

but you said there was no motivation for town to buddy
which still makes me scum

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #208 (isolation #9) » Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:25 pm

Unvote, Vote: RestFermata

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #239 (isolation #10) » Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:16 pm

In post 213, RestFermata wrote:Anyway, about PV, I think he has some serious 'splainin' to do when he comes back, and I will be very interested to hear what his case on me is, but honestly I'm happy with where my vote is right now. As for my wagon, anyone riding it can go engage in auto-gratification. Iec is the only person voting me that doesn't look a bit opportunistic.

I sort of like this. She's maintaining throwing around her weight even when she's under pressure, and although she doesn't like the wagon, she's not using it as leverage to attack an easier person to lynch and staying with her old scumread of me as opposed to hopping on one of the easier choices, but then there's the hop onto HD that completely fucks that one up. Hmm.

In post 227, RestFermata wrote:HD, twisting someone's words to sound like a wishy-washy contradiction when it actually wasn't is a misrep, plain and simple. Plus, when you say I'm "lining up mislynches," that's just another misrep, and it also assumes that Lev and Nacho are both town, which is not something that you would know...unless...

Can you update your reasoning for the HD vote since this flopped?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #241 (isolation #11) » Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:24 pm

For the record, I don't really like the lining up mislynches point that much. What gets me about RF is that she doesn't seem to reanalyze or take in new information after she gets a scumread, and that doesn't really make sense if she's town if we keep her playstyle in mind. The jump off levi was awkward as fuck and seemed like she was doing it because she was having trouble keeping up the reasoning on levi, and the jump-off me seemed similarly stupid. I ignored her when she asked why I was buddying, and she's just okay with that? The trying to jump on HD for a scumslip is also weird considering yes, that's what Iec said, and the fact that she just went "oops i made a mistake" instead of looking back through Iec's posts to see that he originally called Rest "scum if levi is town" is also sort of strange. I feel that I would go back through the thread if I fucked something like that, especially if it was reasoning that I cared enough about to make it an auto-vote.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #242 (isolation #12) » Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:25 pm

In post 240, RestFermata wrote:Only one of my reasons for voting "flopped." I still feel like HD's misrepresentation of me multiple times and his insistence that I contradicted myself when I obviously didn't is scummy. I agree with FT on this.

if you obviously didn't contradict yourself, what advantage does HD as scum have in pretending like you have?
it's not like we don't have smart cookies in this thread that can see something's not right

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #243 (isolation #13) » Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:26 pm

and i hate hate hate when people are like "he's scummy because he's misrepping me!". it feels like they're just trying to be like "oh yeah i'm not scummy you're just making it seem like I was scummy!" which is a poor excuse to take an attacker out of the game.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #250 (isolation #14) » Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:45 pm

Unvote, Vote: PeregrineV

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #270 (isolation #15) » Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:14 pm

HD what's your read on me?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #279 (isolation #16) » Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:26 am

I don't think I agree with Iecerint-scum. But I am starting to come around on Peregrine.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #341 (isolation #17) » Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:25 am

what is the name of your ability?
and also no hammers without me catching up fully
i want to do some things before the end of the day

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #343 (isolation #18) » Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:27 am

what is the name of your ability?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #352 (isolation #19) » Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:44 pm

Vote: Human Destroyer

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #356 (isolation #20) » Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:10 pm

ask me later

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #359 (isolation #21) » Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:17 pm

wait for it

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #367 (isolation #22) » Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:42 pm

oh fuck what am i doing

Vote: TheOneWhoKnocks

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #368 (isolation #23) » Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:44 pm

In post 0, Sotty7 wrote:Lordran is home to many and yet welcomes few. You have been in this land for many years, more than you remember, more than history can possibly record. You are the status quo, you are what makes Lordran the land others talk about only in hushed whispers. You are revered, respected and most importantly... FEARED.

The land of the Ancient Lords, you have all watched over your areas just like you were born to do so. Protecting all that is precious in this land, dispelling all threats, crushing all would be heroes.

But lately news has surfaced that some of you are dying, but not only that... Some of you are being murdered... Talk of The Chosen Undead fills the townships, the swamps, the forests.... The chatter is deafening, the rumors are circling and doubt is bubbling it's way to the surface.

You try to ignore it... But you can't help but wonder.. Are you next?

i seriously doubt that jason is scum for attacking peregrine for being a boss, especially considering this bit of flavor
it's obvious as fuck that bosses = town, and i don't see him jumping headfirst into an attack like that while scum, but I do see him making the mistake based on flavor in his role PM which might not be as clear as this bit was

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #370 (isolation #24) » Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:46 pm

he's a replacement, so the 2 post things make sense
what looks shitty is the hop on peregrine, especially considering the nature of the wagon on peregrine
it shows that he didn't even skim anyone voting him before jumping on himself, which doesn't seem too good to me

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #372 (isolation #25) » Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:49 pm

and right now, I'd still probably wager other scum in HD, with a bonus scum in {Empking, Iecerint}, probably empking.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #375 (isolation #26) » Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:09 pm

i spotted me an empking
i wonder if he will bus...?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #379 (isolation #27) » Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:16 pm

In post 376, Human Destroyer wrote:
In post 363, Human Destroyer wrote:Nacho, now I will ask you why you have a
vote
scumread on me

And don't give me some shitty "lol ill tell you later" shit, spill the beans

Also Empking is probably scum with PV and Rest so

so...?

In post 377, Empking wrote:Is there a case on TOWK? Also, is it he or SK who's scummiest?

there's a bit on TOWK that I just brought up
i will bring up more later, but it will be one of those medium-length cases that you dislike reading

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #381 (isolation #28) » Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:20 pm

you said that like you had more to say
did you?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #384 (isolation #29) » Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:25 pm

In post 382, Human Destroyer wrote:Huh? No, sometimes I end posts with so for the hell of it

So

why do you think empking and pv are scum?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #385 (isolation #30) » Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:25 pm

In post 383, Empking wrote:
In post 379, Nachomamma8 wrote:there's a bit on TOWK that I just brought up
i will bring up more later, but it will be one of those medium-length cases that you dislike reading

Before 370 did you have suspicion of him? Because the thing you mention in 370 seems like a standalone scum tell so going from that to PBPAing him would be a work of confirmation bias.

my suspicion of hd and him shot up significantly with the fresh new townread on peregrine.
i had a leaning scumread on SK, then a leaning scumread of TOWK
now i'm fairly sure he's scum

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #392 (isolation #31) » Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:35 pm

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
SHOW ME THE DIFFERENCES

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #393 (isolation #32) » Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:37 pm

In post 387, Human Destroyer wrote:PV is scum for his strawman of the wagon's reasoning (especially of mine, since mine is not in the vote post, it's here), and that VT claim is unconvincing IMO.

you don't think Peregrine missing that is reasonable?
you think that as scum, he thought that blatantly misrepping you was worth the risk of you noticing? why?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #394 (isolation #33) » Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:38 pm

In post 391, Human Destroyer wrote:
In post 390, Human Destroyer wrote:NOTABLY SKIPS PV WAGON

Same for the Rest wagon

and you really think that he's just avoiding voting all of his scumbuddies?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #401 (isolation #34) » Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:49 pm

In post 396, Human Destroyer wrote:^He doesn't get all questioning and hesitant about specific wagons in that ISO

there's the same votehopping, and the same lack of explanations. so are you discounting that part of your case on him and upgrading it to a meta read, or do you still believe in your original reasoning?

In post 396, Human Destroyer wrote:I don't think it is reasonable, considering he asked me questions which he wanted specific responses to which were in that post. As town, he'd probably read that post and follow up on those responses, no?

Probably, but maybe not.

In post 396, Human Destroyer wrote:The second one, yeah, if he wanted to undermine my opinion, would be a pretty viable thing to do.

Except it was blatant and easily refutable. That doesn't undermine your opinion, it just makes him look like an idiot.

In post 396, Human Destroyer wrote:P-P-Edit: I'm less certain of the Rest wagon avoidance tbh, he wasn't showing outright hesitance to join the wagon, he just kinda ignored it, whereas with PV he was really hesitant and looked more like he was looking for reasons to stay off the wagon than to get on it.

so who is your backup suspicion if rest is town?
and why do you think rest is scum independent of your other two scumreads?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #405 (isolation #35) » Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:03 pm

In post 404, Human Destroyer wrote:I hate doing pure meta based reads with the exception of certain players (*cough*ArcAngel*cough*) and, while I suppose you do have a point that those unexplained wagon hops are there, I don't think it makes Emp less scummy here, especially with that point I made.

it's not a pure meta read. it's noticing that certain things are within a player's meta, and not using those habits as angles to attack them from. why don't you think it makes him less scummy?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #408 (isolation #36) » Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:13 pm

In post 406, chkflip wrote:Again, I haven't read, but if the "case" on Emp is purely meta based on wagon jumping I'll have to inform you that he does that as town and scum.

this is what i was saying originally, you ignored it to continue calling him scum
why?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #410 (isolation #37) » Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:05 pm

you know that i'm not talking to you, right?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #413 (isolation #38) » Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:28 pm

I am not jumping off PV because of VT claim; I am jumping off PV because of his reaction to me. I'm going to do a little legwork to see if my feelings are correct, but not now.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #540 (isolation #39) » Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:09 pm

In post 414, Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:
In post 413, Nachomamma8 wrote:I am not jumping off PV because of VT claim; I am jumping off PV because of his reaction to me. I'm going to do a little legwork to see if my feelings are correct, but not now.

You mean that single post where he was mildly sarcastic? I'm on record as AtE's being a towntell but a bit of whining isn't really the sort of AtE I'm looking for.

Nope, not quite.

In post 416, leviathan93 wrote:i do doubt that scum has received fake claims with this much flavor and if he ends up being lynched and found out as scum then I will admit i'm wrong. but i currently believe the VT claim. i have been in that situation before and know what its like.

This is bad reasoning although I still agree with the conclusion. It's dangerous to call someone town based on the flavor they have unless your mod is untried or the flavor is terrible.

In post 418, Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:And here I'll defend TOWK in that I told him to vote for PV, sure it was an easy vote to make but he's played with me before and I pushed for him to do it. Let's not act like this was an unprompted action where he's just sneaking onto the biggest wagon for that reason and that reason alone.

Did he sheep you easily in the last game you played together?

In post 430, TheOneWhoKnocks wrote:Yeah my vote on PereV came from being told by DDD he was scummy, so rather than read the whole game while busy, I read his ISO and found it scummy so i voted.

And DDD, did you find it suspicious when he jumped onto your reasoning the moment you gave him an out? Or do you think that he withheld something like this for another reason?

In post 483, VP Baltar wrote:Nacho, I'd like to hear your reasons for getting off the PV wagon. Far as I can tell, you just wanted the name of an ability and you left the wagon, which again, I don't understand since there is a 99% chance of there being flavored fakeclaims to keep the game from being broken.

I've lynched Peregrine multiple times before, ended up meta'ing him to save myself the headache of dealing with him normally ever again. This seems like the town meta that I've lynched before, but give a moment to see if he can't do these same things as scum.

In post 524, jasonT1981 wrote:I have sat back the past day, trying to think about it. I just don't see the VT role PM's being different to other VT role PMs.

I know Zach made this mistake off site a good few years ago, I know it was Sotty caught me on the wording of the VT Role PM in that game. given they are both mod and set up designers.. I don't see the role PMs reading differently from VT role to VT role.

PereV

jason. this reasoning is bad.

In post 533, Iecerint wrote:I wouldn't be overly sad to see VP Baltar go, but I'm kind of biased.

Why do you think he's scum again?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #546 (isolation #40) » Sun Mar 03, 2013 8:46 pm

In post 542, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 540, Nachomamma8 wrote:I've lynched Peregrine multiple times before, ended up meta'ing him to save myself the headache of dealing with him normally ever again. This seems like the town meta that I've lynched before, but give a moment to see if he can't do these same things as scum.

I'd be interested to hear this expounded upon because I don't see town at all.

He usually doesn't have self-righteous defense rants as scum, tends to OMGUS strong players often as town while avoiding them more often as scum. However, did a little research, still can't really read him that well, willing to go through the game one more time to see if I can't pick up something more on another readthrough.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #587 (isolation #41) » Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:35 am

In post 548, Human Destroyer wrote:Prod dodge, content after school

HEY ACTIVE LURKER
I'M IN LOVE WITH YOUR STYLE

In post 550, Iecerint wrote:His behavior after the Peregrine wagon (e.g., shift to theory-reasons to lynch claimed VT on whom there is not a very compelling case) is something that I personally only do as scum.

this is also not that compelling of a case
but i'm not holding it against you just yet

In post 554, Ms Marangal wrote:From what I can see, your VT Claim is the main thing that's gotten you off the hook, the specificity of it more so

but I'm VT, so if I claim, would that make the wagon Knock received Disappear as well?

oh god fuck no
early claims like this are absolutely terrible and strong, strong newbscum tells
especially when marangal is a smart enough girl to keep her role under wraps for a little while first

In post 554, Ms Marangal wrote:I'm not following town mindset here, and other then Lurking I can't figure out what my two predecessors have done, nor can I find anything of use from either of them.

amished's ghost is turning in his grave right now

In post 555, Ms Marangal wrote:Coincidentally, I don't think you are as scummy as everyone else thinks you are

awww what sweet buddying

In post 563, FourTrouble wrote:For the record, I'm not convinced PV is scum but voting VP instead is the dumbest, most idiotic thing I've ever seen. The two cases against them can't even be compared: PV has effectively done no scumhunting, whereas VP has been at the forefront of discussion and everything he has said makes perfect sense from a town point of view. The votes on VP are retarded.

pretty much

In post 580, Ms Marangal wrote:Hmm... I should have Iso'd PV a while back, he did a good amount of backpedaling. not only that, but he bit on SK's self-voting gambit and tried to get people to think that he was anti-town. given that he was one of my predecessors, I can trust the results of the self-voting

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Peregrine

I seriously need to give this game a more in-depth read.

this post is absolutely horrible
this flip flop comes so quickly, and the distancing from the townread is terrible, terrible, terrible

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #588 (isolation #42) » Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:36 am

sorry VP, I really am.
i still don't think peregrine is scum. he's been active lurking, but the fact that he's been continuously willing to dance with you while the TOWK slot has been opportunistic as all hell and trying to secure a lynch either way solidifies my vote and i just can't lynch PV in good conscience.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #589 (isolation #43) » Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:37 am

HD is scum as fuck, with Iecerint as scum #3 and Empking as a distinct possibility.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #592 (isolation #44) » Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:50 am

PEREGRINE FUCKING VOTE THE COUNTERWAGON

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #594 (isolation #45) » Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:51 am

(also that DDD vote is wasted)

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #598 (isolation #46) » Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:55 am

In post 597, jasonT1981 wrote:those walls...... urgh

vote them!

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #600 (isolation #47) » Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:57 am

you are voting DDD.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #637 (isolation #48) » Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:15 pm

please, chkflip

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #639 (isolation #49) » Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:17 pm

In post 628, Ms Marangal wrote:my claiming was more of a sarcastic question

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #643 (isolation #50) » Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:19 pm

THAT HAMMER WAS SEXY, BRO
MAD FUCKING SEXY

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #644 (isolation #51) » Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:20 pm

HD/Empking
iecerint, promise me you'll follow through

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #648 (isolation #52) » Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:25 pm

yup exactly
bye bye scumbag

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #652 (isolation #53) » Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:26 pm

why not?
who are your other suspects?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #653 (isolation #54) » Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:26 pm

In post 651, leviathan93 wrote:then use your angelic powers and give us one last post of who you think is scummiest to least scummy~

no good guys are bad guys in this game, levi

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #656 (isolation #55) » Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:30 pm

i see a scumbuddy missing from that list

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #664 (isolation #56) » Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:33 pm

In post 661, leviathan93 wrote:when she turns i think we should take that list into some sort of consideration.

a "let's kill HD and EMP as soon as possible" sort of consideration? I agree.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #671 (isolation #57) » Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:38 pm

In post 665, Iecerint wrote:Oh, you're asking me to lynch HD and EmpKing? Cuz I totally hadn't understood that. I thought you thought I was scum or something?

IDK w/e.

no i was calling you scummy because you were being lazy as fuck and i wanted you to do something
but you couldn't even give me that

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #673 (isolation #58) » Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:39 pm

oh god you actually are town
give us something to work with for tomorrow?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #674 (isolation #59) » Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:41 pm

i guess if peregrine was scum, then HD-peregrine-Iec makes most sense, but it's still not that pretty

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #676 (isolation #60) » Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:48 pm

three scum is par for the course with 13 players.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #693 (isolation #61) » Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:28 am

In post 690, VP Baltar wrote:
vote: PV
This should be up and down frankly. I don't see any legitimate way he's not scum and I'd like an explanation from anyone as to why he's not (that is more than 'he feels town') who thinks he is not at this point.

sorry VPB

Vote: Peregrine

I will eat my humble pie now, although I need to play the reanalyze game a bit.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #696 (isolation #62) » Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:30 am

In post 692, Iecerint wrote:Also, I think there's a strong chance that one of the leaders is scum -- there's no other way to justify scum NKing VT when strong, unclaimed players are roving about, especially when there'd be more than one obvious, strong, gravitas player still around.

why do you think scum shot jason?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #699 (isolation #63) » Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:33 am

also VPB can you talk about your other reads a little bit?
i feel you are on fire this game but I have no idea what your other scum picks are
i feel good about there being scum in {Iecerint, Empking} and I feel good about HD scum.

would like your help sorting out {RF, DDD, FT} though because while I feel pretty good about them, I'm not as confident as I'd like to be.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #700 (isolation #64) » Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:34 am

In post 698, chkflip wrote:Why aren't one of DDD/VP dead right now if they were so fucking right?

WHY ARE YOU ASSUMING SCUM SHOT JASON

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #702 (isolation #65) » Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:42 am

he didn't seem like a good vig shot, but I could see him getting shot by a vig
scum shooting him would be laughable.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #737 (isolation #66) » Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:10 am

holy fucking shit do i hate you sometimes

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #739 (isolation #67) » Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:18 am

In post 717, Iecerint wrote:
In post 702, Nachomamma8 wrote:scum shooting him would be laughable.

Well, that's true, it doesn't make much sense. 'S why I think at least one of the more obvious kills is scum. A separate kill being blocked is also possible, but the prior probability is low.

first of all, let me just comment on how i find that you made a kill like this and then started to go down the path of "OH ONE OF THE OBVIOUS TOWNIES IS ACTUALLY SCUM THANKS TO NIGHTKILL" is horrible, horrible, horrible WIFOM and I absolutely hate every bit of it. I've been cautious in reading you, but I'm actually townreading Empking for once and while we usually see eye to eye, this shit logic is leaving you alienated from me and if you're town, you need to start fixing that soon, please. Where you see obvious kills, I see obvious protects. Meaning that if scum went for the obvious kill, it's completely possible the doctor wasn't an idiot and the obvious kill was protected. Jason was not a threat to the scumteam. He was likely town, but he was lurking so hard that he would probably hammer the guy who posted most in LyLo. So, he was shot by SK/bad vig, or he was killed to avoid protection. The logic that this makes VPB scum and the fact that it is the ONLY logic you've posted to make VPB scum means you can die as soon as I have the time to lynch you.

In post 726, Empking wrote:Chk: Please answer my question.

empking you really are town
sorry for calling you scum
i promise i won't flipflop this time!

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #740 (isolation #68) » Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:20 am

In post 738, chkflip wrote:Tell us how you
really
feel, Nacho old boy.

i feel like if i had time to chat with VPB for a little while, i could crush this game and i could put this in memory lane as "that one time VPB came back and dominated a game and I was his enforcer!"
but you won't let me have that
so i'm frustrated.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #741 (isolation #69) » Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:21 am

In post 272, Human Destroyer wrote:
In post 270, Nachomamma8 wrote:HD what's your read on me?

Haven't really been paying enough attention to you, I'll take a closer look at you later

In post 273, Human Destroyer wrote:
In post 154, Nachomamma8 wrote:-snip-

wow this is a bunch of reasons for you to vote me instead of chilling on an easy lynch
so, um.
why are you chilling on an easy lynch?
and why haven't you commented on the DDD awesomewagon?

Town

In post 239, Nachomamma8 wrote:-snip-
I sort of like this. She's maintaining throwing around her weight even when she's under pressure, and although she doesn't like the wagon, she's not using it as leverage to attack an easier person to lynch and staying with her old scumread of me as opposed to hopping on one of the easier choices, but then there's the hop onto HD that completely fucks that one up. Hmm.

-snip-

Town

In post 241, Nachomamma8 wrote:Wall of hard-to-readness but that's townish

Town

Okay Nacho you're town

didn't know what to think of this exchange when it happened
I don't like it in reflection. He could have just called me town, but instead he goes through this fake bullshit dance so he's calling me town with reasoning. I really, didn't like that. I also feel like HD is active lurking hard. Town-HD is dynamic as fuck, but this HD is lurk-lurk-avoid shit. I don't like it at all.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #742 (isolation #70) » Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:25 am

i guess FT is my lowest townread. let me reread him.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #743 (isolation #71) » Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:27 am

nevermind, FT is town.
so i guess scumteam has to be Iece-PV-HD or something is fucked up in my reads.
too bad i can cross-reference with VPB!

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #744 (isolation #72) » Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:27 am

can't*

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #746 (isolation #73) » Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:54 am

why is probability of successful doc protects small?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #752 (isolation #74) » Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:42 pm

i fucking hate serial killers
fuck you, serial killer

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #796 (isolation #75) » Sun Mar 17, 2013 9:54 pm

In post 573, Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:
In post 557, PeregrineV wrote:Thanks?

I find it pretty funny that people don't find you scum as well.

And yeah it's really sad chkflip is being so stupid because he's really obviously town.

Are we really saying that DDD vengekilled chkflip?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #797 (isolation #76) » Sun Mar 17, 2013 10:01 pm

In post 755, Iecerint wrote:Chkflp probably would've been my pick if he were still alive due to his having hammered D1 to unlynch Pere, but he's not. My two main gut scum reads of players still alive are RestFermata and HumanDestroyer (latter is mostly relational). Town on VP/Nacho/levi/FT, null on EmpKing.

HumanDestroyer gets townpoints for voting PereV out of the gate after someone else had already voted me going into D2. RestFermata was in favor of the PereV wagon prior to being opposed to it and then voting MsMarangal.

Vote: RestFermata

Give me more than gut reads, please. I don't care about reads that are completely intuition at this point.

In post 762, VP Baltar wrote:Hi, Nacho. You ready to bust some serious scum brains today? PS, you better not be tricksy scum or I'll find out. TIA

Actually, yes. I am very ready to destroy the scumteam today.
even if that scumteam includes you
it probably doesn't, but constant vigilance

In post 764, Human Destroyer wrote:Explanation after I answer this question.

Hello why are you treating the people who suspect you awkwardly?

In post 773, VP Baltar wrote:What does an encoder do btw? I don't know if I"m familiar with the role. Anyone know?

Enables daytalk.

In post 782, VP Baltar wrote:Nacho, I'd like to hear your thoughts on that list.

I'm going to go through the game tomorrow when I'm finishing up a term paper. I'll have a much clearer idea then because I have been very out of touch with mafia lately. Iecerint/HD are the two big suspicions for me though, with HD over Iece.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #813 (isolation #77) » Tue Mar 19, 2013 6:01 pm

In post 799, Empking wrote:That's an Encryptor isn't it?

mmm.

thad's catch up posts bring no incredible revelations, but will keep reading them

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #816 (isolation #78) » Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:30 pm

In post 44, FourTrouble wrote:
In post 42, Iecerint wrote:FT is responding to reasonable page 1/2 stuff with a question that frames Peregrine in a scummy light AND is probably not going to garner interesting information about Peregrine. Presence of clear scum motivation + absence of clear town motivation.

Uh, no. I don't think I framed him in a scummy light... The questions I asked were primarily a response/defense to Peregrine's terrible reason to vote me, and also an attempt to understand the motivations behind Peregrine's shitty reasoning. The town motivation there is pretty simple: is Peregrine's bad vote have scummy motivation or town motivation.

You're vote is worse though, no depth of thought to your analysis whatsoever. You're not considering my reactions from MY perspective.

So we have guaranteed scum in PeregrineV, and an additional scum in Iec/Empking. With that in mind, do I think FT opens up the gate with attacking both partners for opportunistic voting on SK? No, probably not. Even if Empking is the townie out of the Peregrine/Iec/Emp trio, it seems like an odd place to put yourself.

In post 45, FourTrouble wrote:
In post 40, PeregrineV wrote:I have no clue (but doubt it). You saw the reasons people are voting her, what do you think?

I already answered your question, obviously. If you "doubt" that everyone on the SK wagon is town, then why the fuck are you voting for me? Your stated reason for doing so was because I was voting someone on the SK wagon even though SK was voting himself... but if you agree that someone on the SK wagon is probably not town, then you have no reason whatsoever to vote for me.

There's this, which is again a genuine response to Peregrine's vote. Peregrine's question in and of itself seems like he was uncomfortable with this situation; FT's response doesn't seem like he was.

In post 53, FourTrouble wrote:Iecerint, if I express something as a question, it probably means I want to make sure I'm understanding what you are saying correctly. It is a conversational thing, people do it all the time. It basically qualifies things with, "unless I'm mistaken, you're saying..."

Point is, you're saying Peregrine voted for me because town would not vote for someone on the SK wagon. I'm saying the implication there is that everyone on the SK wagon is town.

I never strawmanned Peregrine, I never even said Peregrine was conscious of the implication behind his vote for me. Hence why I asked him the question in the first place. I was trying to understand the depth of Peregrine's thought process as well as his overall logical consistency.

This is the way I play, there is nothing scummy about it.

this would make FT pretty much confirmed town with an Iece scumflip

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #817 (isolation #79) » Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:39 pm

In post 216, FourTrouble wrote:I like the pressure on Peregrine but there are a couple other people that I'm more concerned about, specifically HD. I don't like the way he avoids any real scumhunting with his vote on Empking, then his blatant misrep of RF even after RF explains what he meant, plus using that to justify his vote, as if somehow RF became more scummy after RF explains what he meant. I just don't see where or how HD suddenly decided RF is a better place to put his vote after RF's response.

In post 295, FourTrouble wrote:I'd be down for a Peregrine lynch but I don't want to rush it,

and then somehow after being plenty of bus happy he decides to pussyfoot the peregrine lynch, which seems a bit weird to me. I mean, distancing in the beginning and protecting later is fine, but distancing in the beginning and then having horrible interactions later doesn't seem quite right.

In post 465, FourTrouble wrote:Chkflip, you're not making any sense. VP is not saying the fact that scum are given fake claims means PV is fake claiming, he's saying that it has no bearing whatsoever on PV's affiliation. He's calling PV scum for a completely different reason. Now, don't misinterpret this as me agreeing with VP, I'm actually inclined to agree with you PV is probably town and it is definitely premature to be calling for his death. That doesn't mean VP is scum though.

Then suddenly pulls the plug, has natural interactions again.

quote="In post 581, FourTrouble"]

In post 567, PeregrineV wrote:So, from a townBP mindset, everyone else was scumhunting, but I was not?
So, I'm scum, and VP voted for me. That's cool.
But, when I looked at the six votes on me, townBP immediately saw that as a scum move, because scum try to stay alive, but town do not.
When I claimed, townBP saw my VT claim as scum, or didn't care, or whatever. That's fine.
However, every post I make he tries to reinforce his view that I'm scum regardless of what I actually say and without responding to it. To me, that's tunneling. And I can't think of any town reason day1 to tunnel.

And to ask you, since I don't see it quite as clearly as you, how has BP been scumhunting? What scum has he located that he hasn't called scum through some "association" with me?

You're still not representing VP accurately. The mistake you're making is the assumption that you can defend yourself by telling VP - and everyone else voting for you - that they're wrong to vote for you because of so-and-so reason. If you're town, what you need to do is hunt for scum instead of sitting around doing nothing but defending yourself. Your chain of logic in your defense just misrepresents what VP is saying either way. He's calling you scum because you aren't scumhunting. The rest of his posts are about showing that your other actions make sense from a scum point of view, not that they themselves are reasons to think you are scum. There is a difference here that you're blurring, and that's why your vote on VP is so bad.

To answer your question, VP has done more than enough scumhunting. He has some strong townreads (some of which I don't necessarily agree with but understand where he's coming from), and his tell on Iecerint applies regardless of your affiliation as far as I'm concerned so no it's not just in association to you, and the fact he's tunneling on you makes sense given the way you've responded to his pressure.

I myself can't quite explain why but I have a gut feeling you are town. I really shouldn't, logically speaking you are obviously pretty scummy. I've been trying to understand your thought process because I was hoping maybe you'll reveal something towny for me to latch onto. So far, nothing to see here and you still aren't even scumhunting, and that's a pretty bad sign.[/quote]
this seemed fairly genuine to me.
not to mention he's making this massive noise around the PeregrineV situation, yet not voting the counterwagon. I can't actually figure out the angle scumFT would be pushing here, but I can understand the town mindset.

In post 582, FourTrouble wrote:
In post 579, chkflip wrote:LOL'd that was legit trolling, you won my heart. DDD helped.

UNVOTE: VP Baltar
VOTE: PeregrineV

ftr I've read the game and am giving it a re-read. Might be done before we hit deadline but I honestly doubt it.

In post 580, Ms Marangal wrote:Hmm... I should have Iso'd PV a while back, he did a good amount of backpedaling. not only that, but he bit on SK's self-voting gambit and tried to get people to think that he was anti-town. given that he was one of my predecessors, I can trust the results of the self-voting

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Peregrine

I seriously need to give this game a more in-depth read.

Both of these votes are pretty bad. I mean, how do you go from voting for a guy to sheeping that guy?

fair point, more blatant than the rest of his defending would be

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #818 (isolation #80) » Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:40 pm

other than PV interactions, I don't really see much that FT has done. which could be significant if FT interacts with scumpartners a lot, but I don't know jack and shit about his meta so I will be right back.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #819 (isolation #81) » Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:48 pm

no fuck no he chose a buddy to distance from, chose a buddy to protect
i seriously doubt FT is scum here

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #825 (isolation #82) » Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:59 am

In post 821, VP Baltar wrote:Because he calls you town I assume.

Anyhow, lots of stuff here to work with now. ThAd's analysis posts aren't bad. I do think the clear move today is to lynch Iec. He's the safest bet for hitting scum I believe. What I want to do is figure out who could be a potential PV-Iec partner before the day is out. That will give a clear game plan to follow.

Empking is the next person I want to read.
He's townish, but I definitely want to double check things.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #827 (isolation #83) » Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:42 am

if you made a case on RF
I would be doubly-grateful

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #829 (isolation #84) » Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:53 am

So the entirety of your case is that you didn't like RF's conditional attack. I didn't like it either, but that was very, very early on. Second, is a change in your point of view as she continues to post, but I don't understand what the hell that point means. Third is that she voted PereV day 2 prior to being opposed to it, but... that was my position as well.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #835 (isolation #85) » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:10 am

why do you think he is town
who are you attempting to lynch at this time and why

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #836 (isolation #86) » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:12 am

and can we talk about how town as fuck RF's replace out was?
or was I the only one who was around for that?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #843 (isolation #87) » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:16 am

you can pay me in reasons
i can bake cookies for myself

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #849 (isolation #88) » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:22 am

quote it for me iec

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #850 (isolation #89) » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:24 am

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #852 (isolation #90) » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:26 am

who are you?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #868 (isolation #91) » Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:22 pm

No. We are not done with this day.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #928 (isolation #92) » Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:56 pm

In post 882, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 880, ThAdmiral wrote:I want your opinion on hd from day one. Do you think he, as a partner to pere, would have stayed on his wagon like he did? That's the main thing making me question him as a scumspect.

Also four probably needs to be looked at closer. He's been sorta flying under the radar.

I think your point about HD is completely legit and is really what's keeping me back from saying for sure he's the third scum. It's hard to see him bussing like that, when a player with seemingly more experience (Iec) made an effort to save PV.

I think the way his activity dropped the fuck off after he lynched PV is much more telling.

Anyways, I've gotten all I need out of this day. FT hopping off Iece's wagon when he did is town as shit, HD is disengaged, Empking has shadows of doubt like he always does but is still probably town, Thad questioning RF's replace out is town, town, town.

Vote: Iecerint

Thad, the idea is that RF wouldn't stoop to that level of emotional manipulation while replacing out as scum, but a post like that when in legitimate trouble is understandable. There's no need to continue pretending when you're leaving.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #930 (isolation #93) » Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:34 pm

I'm sure that I think Iece is scum, yeah.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #932 (isolation #94) » Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:36 pm

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #934 (isolation #95) » Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:26 pm

really?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #949 (isolation #96) » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:22 pm

Vote: Human Destroyer

Here's where I want to go for today. Will be back on the 31st.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #968 (isolation #97) » Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:59 am

Empking attacking leviathan today and HD attacking RestFermata and pretending that the replace out could've been genuine with her being scum makes the scumteam pretty clear to me, but maybe I'm just seeing what I want to see.

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #972 (isolation #98) » Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:58 am

empking what is your opinion of me this game?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #997 (isolation #99) » Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:19 am

In post 975, ThAdmiral wrote:What do we say to a massclaim now? We are 1 mislynch away from lylo and we are pretty much shooting in the dark here. If anyone has something to claim I think now might be the time. I believe town has more than just a tracker/watcher and a vengeful.

That's probably true. I don't really think it will be useful because I don't really think we're shooting in the dark right now.

In post 989, FourTrouble wrote:I haven't been lurking, just really busy the past couple days. I'm gonna reread everything and see if anything new hits me. I still think ThAd and HD are our best shot for lynching scum.

Why is Thad scum and why is Empking town?

Nachomamma8 · Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:13 am

No, massclaim shouldn't take that long with 5 people.

Nachomamma8 · Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:11 am

In post 1021, ThAdmiral wrote:Dudes we have 2 days just claim if you are on.

So far we've gotten two claims. Worst scenario is getting the people who actually look alright to claim while letting scummier people skate on by.

Nachomamma8 · Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:40 am

In post 183, Human Destroyer wrote:I mean seriously look at Empking

Wagon jumping liek a baus

Jumping on someone for "votehopping" while damning a wagon on a self-voter for being too easy is pretty damn strange to me.

In post 211, Human Destroyer wrote:UNVOTE:
VOTE: RestFermata

Only thing that really gives me pause on this wagon is PV's presence on it.

This vote came after he posted ISO #6, which was essentially a bunch of posturing to jump on an RF wagon with a tiny dig at PV. The inclusion of PV in this post is strange enough as it is.

In post 251, Human Destroyer wrote:This post is shit

Also explain your townreads and your vote

This is the complete case from HD on PV, until he upgrades it here:

In post 263, Human Destroyer wrote:Deflecting attention on RestFermata to SaintKerrigan, reasonless vote, adding another unexplained townread to your town pile

Which are a whole lot of things that are pretty fucking poor. I also don't like his avoidance of the Ms. M wagon; most people tried to push past it if they cared any about the PV wagon, but HD mentioned Marangal a grand total of one time. His Empking case is old and recycled, and the push on ThAd after he claims investigative role without any sort of counterclaim at all is scummy as all hell and I hate it with a burning, fiery passion.

Nachomamma8 · Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:41 am

I'm also going to go out on a limb here and say that he's not bussing Empking. He wanted that lynch a hell of a lot more than he wanted the PV lynch, and has had decent interactions with pretty much everyone except for FT, who he's stuck in his town pile for the entire game for pretty much no reason. FT, I'm also wondering what the hell you mean by "basically vanilla".

Nachomamma8 · Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:44 am

In post 685, Sotty7 wrote:
Hmm? A visitor have we?

21th and final vote count of Day one

Ms Margangal: 7 (Nachomamma8, leviathan93, Iecerint, Empking, PeregrineV, RestFermata, chkflip)

PeregrineV: 5 (Debonair Danny DiPietro, VP Baltar, Human Destroyer, Ms Marangal, JasonT1981)
Human Destroyer: 1 (FourTrouble)

Not voting:
No one

With
13
players alive it takes
7
to lynch

Ms Margangal has been lynched.
Scene up coming...

Also, how the hell did we let FT get away with this? With how polarizing the lynches were yesterday, scum wouldn't want to help the PV lynch move along, but they wouldn't want to join PV on the Marangal wagon since obviously it was coming under fire. A throwaway vote on a buddy here could be a pretty safe, pretty comfortable move. Looking back through FT a little bit more.

Nachomamma8 · Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:46 am

In post 216, FourTrouble wrote:I like the pressure on Peregrine but there are a couple other people that I'm more concerned about, specifically HD.

In post 295, FourTrouble wrote:I'd be down for a Peregrine lynch but I don't want to rush it, I'd like to hear from him before anything.

In post 582, FourTrouble wrote:
In post 579, chkflip wrote:LOL'd that was legit trolling, you won my heart. DDD helped.

UNVOTE: VP Baltar
VOTE: PeregrineV

ftr I've read the game and am giving it a re-read. Might be done before we hit deadline but I honestly doubt it.

In post 580, Ms Marangal wrote:Hmm... I should have Iso'd PV a while back, he did a good amount of backpedaling. not only that, but he bit on SK's self-voting gambit and tried to get people to think that he was anti-town. given that he was one of my predecessors, I can trust the results of the self-voting

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Peregrine

I seriously need to give this game a more in-depth read.

Both of these votes are pretty bad. I mean, how do you go from voting for a guy to sheeping that guy?

This is the best, though. Again, only mention of Marangal at all.

Nachomamma8 · Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:00 am

Great Grey Wolf Sif, night kill immune town.
I think that vengeful + limited investigative role + bulletproof makes a hell of a lot more sense than a bulletproof + full doctor + limited investigative role.

Nachomamma8 · Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:01 am

ThAd, do you agree with me that FT is likely the last scum so tomorrow can be quick?

Nachomamma8 · Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:07 am

I'm 120% that levi is telling the truth and is town. The reason my immediate response of SK in the setup was because tigerzone was in DDD's townslot for a while and he never said anything that changed that read in the least bit. But levi shooting the tigerzone slot makes a hell of a lot more since, considering that she had a townread on most active players but not really on tigerzone, followed with the "fuck..." immediately after chkflip's death.

Nachomamma8 · Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:22 am

How so?

Nachomamma8 · Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:22 am

Right now it just looks like you're weaseling your way out of the hammer :/

Nachomamma8 · Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:30 am

HD's making a 1 for 1 trade because otherwise he's getting lynched.
I could see your point if he brought that out immediately, but his prod dodging until he had to claim + waffling on ThAd's claim initially + just somehow having incriminating information on his top suspect... it doesn't add up.

Nachomamma8 · Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:31 am

In post 961, Human Destroyer wrote:
In post 947, ThAdmiral wrote:I am Capra Demon. I am a tracker/watcher. My two abilities are each of my two dogs that fight with me, neither had been used by the time I replaced in. I found out last night that I could only use one per night, and used my watch ability on vp baltar. No one visited him.

I'm not sure whether to believe this.

On the one hand, claiming no visit watcher on someone that has a decent chance of being protected seems risky as hell.

On the other, Rest was a scummy little fucker.

VPB and FT, I think you're both town. Thoughts?

For example, who sees a claim that provides conflicting information with your own, calls it "risky" and implies it makes them town?

Nachomamma8 · Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:55 am

FT...?

Nachomamma8 · Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:08 am

In post 1072, Empking wrote:I don't think Levi's claim does make sense. DDD's role does say Vengeful (Hidden), for Levi to be telling the truth the mod has to be lying, surely.

DDD and levi were partners.
If one died, there was a hidden vengeful.

Nachomamma8 · Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:09 am

Hence why levi was told he was vanilla yet got a vengeful kill when DDD died.

Nachomamma8 · Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:02 am

In post 1081, FourTrouble wrote:I'm not scum and I'm not pushing for any angle to get suspicion off me, I'm analyzing the game from the perspective that I'm town. You should be asking whether what I'm saying makes sense from a town perspective.

If HD is scum, for sure Empking is scum just based on HD's completely unrealistic suspicion of Empking throughout the entire game.

You're also speaking like you know HD is scum, but you sure as hell aren't acting that way. You're acting like you want us to be like "oh, right, Empking is scum and not you" and then you will hammer away.

Nachomamma8 · Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:06 am

That would've been optimal a while ago, HD.

Nachomamma8 · Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:10 am

In post 1088, Human Destroyer wrote:VOTE: Human Destroyer

...just shut up.

Also, you can't kill VPB tonight because you have to shoot ThAd before he tracks FT...
Killing jason was a poor decision. He was town as shit, but he was also pretty much confirmed VT :/

Nachomamma8 · Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:59 am

In post 1111, FourTrouble wrote:I'll spell it out for you again: PV had no interactions with Empking whatsoever yet implicitly defends him multiple times. Further, HD's suspicion of Empking on D1 was totally irrational and unrealistic. Take a look at HD's interactions with Rest compared with Empking. Finally, note that Empking implicitly defended PV and HD (the scummy part being it was implicit).

Irrational suspicion is scummy in general, and unless there's a specific reason that suspicion led to them being partners, all you're doing is making a case for HD-scum. No interactions with Empking but implicitly defending him is also a strange point since the person whose attacked Empking the most in this game is... HD. I'd like something better than this, something maybe focused more on Empking and not interactions?

Nachomamma8 · Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:39 pm

In post 1126, FourTrouble wrote:Nacho, baseless attacks on an unremarkable player is certainly an associative tell.

You see unremarkable, I see easily mislynchable. Empking is like candy to scum because he's so concise. But he's harder to lynch than he looks!

In post 1126, FourTrouble wrote:Empking's posts taken alone don't offer anything substantial. He offers little reasoning or explanation for gis reads. I will note my posts taken alone reveal a pro-town thought-process even if I was wrong about certain things.

I can also see town posting in Empking?

Nachomamma8 · Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:03 am

Vote: FourTrouble

Nachomamma8 · Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:24 pm

I'm a third party survivor, but the game hasn't ended with the last scum's lynch?

Nachomamma8 · Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:51 pm

True. Why do you think it is me?

Nachomamma8 · Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:48 pm

In post 1150, VP Baltar wrote:Mostly because I think you're competent enough to fool me easy enough. Not that emp isn't, I just think if he's scum it'd stick out to me more. That being said, I haven't played in a long time and my meta reads on either of you really need to be irrelevant in my consideration. I need to make a pro con analysis of each of you within the context of this game.

Fair enough. I might reread later, but I've definitely done enough of that. I'd rather see what you two come up with first.

Nachomamma8 · Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:50 pm

Right now, I think you are scum for the same reason you think I am scum, with the added bonus of nightkills that are very... VP Baltar oriented. The switch from "third party survivor" to "scum that is competent enough to fool me" instantly was also a bit weird, and I'm not sure HD would go after both scumpartners in the way he did. The PV bus in and of itself was already a bit strange, but if he saw you pushing hard for a scumbuddy, it's not really out of the realm of possibility for him to take an experienced scumpartner's lead.

Nachomamma8 · Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:52 pm

VP, what do you think of the setup speculation leading to me being town? Do you think we had the vengeful hidden partners and a one shot tracker, one shot watcher with no protective role against two scum PRs, maybe 3?

Nachomamma8 · Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:00 pm

And do you really think scum plan the night before HD got lynched was "okay, we no-kill despite avoiding shooting VPB because of being afraid of a protective role to set up for OUR protective role claims even though that doesn't work if we don't have protective roles"? Or do you have something that makes a lot more sense?

Nachomamma8 · Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:45 pm

In post 1156, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 1153, Nachomamma8 wrote:The switch from "third party survivor" to "scum that is competent enough to fool me" instantly was also a bit weird,
Not really. You pointed out a very valid reason why I was being stupid in even speculating that. Thinking of the survivor angle was a byproduct of second guessing my putting both you and Emp in the town column all game. It's not an after thought as you seem to be suggesting.

It's a strange thought, but I wonder why third party was your initial assumption as opposed to "scum", which you brought up second. Considering me third party means that you think me not-scum, meaning that you have some special reason to think me so. Otherwise, why didn't Emp get the honor of being suspected of a third party survivor?

Nachomamma8 · Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:46 pm

In post 1157, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 1154, Nachomamma8 wrote:VP, what do you think of the setup speculation leading to me being town? Do you think we had the vengeful hidden partners and a one shot tracker, one shot watcher with no protective role against two scum PRs, maybe 3?
I think it's one possible angle, and it's not without its merits. I don't think setup speculation makes you confirmed town.

That's a lot of waffling. Is setup speculation a point in my favor? Yes, or no?

Nachomamma8 · Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:46 pm

In post 1158, VP Baltar wrote:As an aside, I don't think judging from our two dead scum so far, we've exactly seen what I'd call logical scum play, so etc.

But I think you and I are competent enough to be logical scum players. Don't you?

Nachomamma8 · Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:11 pm

In post 1163, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 1160, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 1157, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 1154, Nachomamma8 wrote:VP, what do you think of the setup speculation leading to me being town? Do you think we had the vengeful hidden partners and a one shot tracker, one shot watcher with no protective role against two scum PRs, maybe 3?
I think it's one possible angle, and it's not without its merits. I don't think setup speculation makes you confirmed town.
That's a lot of waffling. Is setup speculation a point in my favor? Yes, or no?
I think what I said is accurate. It's not fully one or the other. That's not waffling so much as being realistic. False dichotomies are false.

No it obviously doesn't make me confirmed town. But giving your opinion on it would be awesome.

Nachomamma8 · Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:14 pm

Perfect. I want to talk to Emp now.

Nachomamma8 · Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:31 pm

A few things, here and there. Is there anything other than "VP is protown" and "Nacho has setup speculation on his side" that you have to share before I ask you questions? Commenting on #1130 would probably be a good place to start.

Nachomamma8 · Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:50 am

I lost my phone and my wallet and everything so I need to find them before I return.

Nachomamma8 · Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:49 pm

Clearing my head, one last reread.

Nachomamma8 · Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:13 pm

In post 1176, VP Baltar wrote:Once thing I would like explained Nacho, is why you moved your vote off of Rest there and onto PV?

I liked #213 initially for the reasons I explained in my #239, and then her following two posts were fairly town and I didn't want my vote on her anymore. The PV vote itself was mostly because of his streak of coasty shit posts when there really wasn't any content to analyze and because I was trusting the DDD/you block for a little while.

In post 1176, VP Baltar wrote:@Nacho - Why'd you immediately switch to HD as your prime choice after Iec's lynch? I'd like your logic here.

I did a tiny little bit of rereading after the night and convinced myself of HD scum pretty strongly. His day opening posts also set off bells fucking everywhere since the scum team was running out of viable mislynches, I figured, and ThAd was so unbelievably town at that point of time that the attack felt off. I've played with him a few times and he's usually a pretty transparent townie, but I never really got that from him this game. Iecerint's flip also sort of said "okay, your turn to catch scum" to me, and I felt pretty good about HD, so I went for it.

Nachomamma8 · Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:20 pm

NK analysis points hard towards Empking, I think. VPB would have been protected the first night if anyone, so the jason kill makes no fucking sense from scum VPB's perspective. He could've shot DDD and easily gotten away with it, or even maybe me, but he didn't.

HD's interactions with VPB seem a little too suck-up-y to be scum-scum interactions. I was playing around a lot with VPBscum earlier based on VPB leading the team to bus Peregrine, but cooling down so hard on the day when the scum team needed him most (after the Iecerint lynch) was bad fucking timing for VPB-scum. I don't see why he would leave his buddy out to dry when he easily could've swung the lynch somewhere else; Empking was mislynchable as fuck and he definitely could've paid some attention to that and given it traction. I also made the observation about HD and Empking going after two obvtown that day as if they were trying to go after mislynches, and the fact that HD didn't go for leviathan with Empking is a bit weird. Instead he decided to counterclaim RF and that was weird as fuck.

Nachomamma8 · Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:37 pm

I got a little paranoid when VPB called me a survivor, but that doesn't really seem like a scum move at all and most of my reasons for thinking he is scum are stupid. They don't really mesh with his play this game; from his early push on DDD to figure him out to his early push on PV that was feeling him out followed by a longer, more confident case later, to dismissing our stupid reasons for thinking Peregrine town, to the tiny little nudges of paranoia on me, to the encoder question, to the Iec push, to fucking everything. If VPB's scum, he played a scum game that was essentially close to perfect.

Meanwhile, it's not that hard to see Emp-scum at all. There's no votes on scum, he hints to HD not to attack him a couple of times, he soft-defends PV, he went from having me as a strong town read to a null read for pretty much no reason whatsoever, he started posturing for this day in his #1100 and then soon dropped it after FT was like "fuck you, you are going to flip scum", and his play today is lazy as fuck and almost like scum who's given up. He seemed surer than he's acting like when he was calling me town for setup speculation, but it feels like he's lying back and waiting to vote VPB because I can get paranoid at times, but he definitely doesn't want to make the first move and confirm VPB as town so VPB starts looking exclusively at him.

Nachomamma8 · Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:37 pm

So I'm going to give it like one more day, maybe a few more hours. But most likely I'm going to vote Empking.

Nachomamma8 · Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:41 pm

Nachomamma8 · Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:41 pm

I'm drunk as shit too

Nachomamma8 · Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:42 pm

i could never vote you. i tried so hard to vote you because i was afraid but you were just so fucking town the whole game.
too fucking town.

Vote: empking

Nachomamma8 · Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:46 am

In post 1193, VP Baltar wrote:Nah, I think both Nacho and I were feeling exactly the same there. It was one of those things where I felt like it was Emp, but that also seemed convenient and I didn't want to get fooled like that so close to victory if Nacho really was scum.

This is pretty much where I stood during LyLo. I will admit that the survivor comment put me a little more on edge than it should have, but I couldn't put any scum motivation to it and then decided I was just being stupid. Then you posted the Empking vote which was pretty much my exact mindset at the time and I felt great.

This game in general was awesome. Thank you for the game, Sotty!