Mini 1430 - Pokémon uPick Mafia (Game Over!)

[Baby Spice]

VOTE: Limo

Tell me that's not a truly random vote. I dare you.

Computer based random numbers aren't truly random so it can't be. :p

[Baby Spice]

Vote HadMatter

[Baby Spice]

Better ask the mod if it's ok first Fuzzy.

[Baby Spice]

#27 and #29 worry me a little, but the rest of the Fuzzy posts seem town enough.

[Baby Spice]

Hey Matter, vote not random.

[Baby Spice]

No, Fuzzy next maybe but not now.

[Baby Spice]

Fuzzy has "not" claimed all sorts of crap so I suggest we give him one night to be a vig/be vigged.

[Baby Spice]

Glork, I agree a bit about Fuzzy, but good SK play is generally to hit a vig target N1 to try and claim vig.
Then we look at lynching him.

[Baby Spice]

I think Glork got lucky once and is trying to force fit something here.

Unvote

More when I finally get this damn computer working

[Baby Spice]

Wisdom, that last jump of uis was kinda reasonable though.

[Baby Spice]

Vote Serrapaladin

[Baby Spice]

I love reasons.

I think people who go after easy targets are scummy.
I think nose rubbing scum jokes are bad.
But three hours after complaining of being tired sound slippy and nose rubby.

[Baby Spice]

This is not an anti-prod post.


Got tied up with kids etc.

[Baby Spice]

Sticking with my vote.

[Baby Spice]

Still feeling like crap from the flu but:

Limo votes Seanald for end of day shenanigans, which I don't see. But that's neither here nor there.
Limo says he would also vote Sera, no reason given in that post.
Sera pipes up defending himself from Limo's accusations of shenanigans, which I don't think Limo made, then defends Seanald and Wisdom from shenanigans though again, no shenanigans claims against Wisdom.

Then Sera claims to have commented without thought or checking up and flip flops a bit on Seanald.

My first thought was Sera had a guilty reaction to him mis-reading Limo's vote, then tried to cover it up and leave an option to both defend Seanald and vote him.

What also bothers me is that it was NoPoint who really did some shenanigans with that Hammervote thing.

Vote Serapaladin

I thought yesterday he got cocky and slipped while tired posting.
I think the TBG wagon was a counter wagon, which can only be counter to Serra.
I think Serra's #376 is again a slip. Guilt causing Serra to defend himself against something that wasn't put forward. At least not explicitly.

[Baby Spice]

Baby has been backgroundish and opportunistic as fuck.

Yeah, and how is voting scum slips opportunistic?


(Was in too many games at once.)

[Baby Spice]

Nah, I've given up buddying my townreads as scum, it just gets me lynched.

I think nose rubbing scum jokes are bad.
But three hours after complaining of being tired sound slippy and nose rubby.

-----------------

Vote: seanald

His end of the day shenanigans.

End of day shenanigans yesterday is only a valid argument if you're certain I'm scum (in which case why not vote me?).

I think Serra's #376 is again a slip. Guilt causing Serra to defend himself against something that wasn't put forward. At least not explicitly.

----------------

I wasn't defending myself against anything. I was tired and misunderstood that by 'shenanigans' Limo meant 'hanging back'.

That's now two things that could well be scum slips that have come from you being tired. Now, personally, I think being tired is when people are most likely to screw up and slip.

Admittedly they aren't exactly neon lights. But taken with how the TBG wagon formed, how quickly that wagon formed, and it's results.

So we have two apparent slips from you Serra, and what absolutely screams counter wagon to you.

preview edit

Oh, and Serra, answering a question directed at me about you. That is really scummy.

[Baby Spice]

If you're aware enough to comment on it Serra, you're aware enough to subvert it for the wine.

Wisdom, much of what makes me think Seanald could be scum is links to Serra, including vote patterns.

Yeah I would. Prefer Serra first though because I'm sure of him.

[Baby Spice]

Actually, I might revise that voting pattern comment.

I iso'd Oversoul and looked at the vote counts, and there's a vote shift between count 1.3, 1.4, and 1.5 that wasn't something that happened in the game. Something I only noticed when you pointed out that Seanald had only made the one vote.
It made it look like Serra was trying to shift his vote away from being next to Seanald, and Seanald from Serra. Like they were trying to break up wagon analyses tells.

[Baby Spice]

It made it look like Serra was trying to shift his vote away from being next to Seanald, and Seanald from Serra. Like they were trying to break up wagon analyses tells.

I was on HM for the first half of D1 and switched to TBG. How on earth you see a correlation to Seanald's votes is completely beyond me.

At least TRY to look as though your coming up with genuine reasons.

Lets spell this out for you then since it looks like you didn't bother to actually, you know, look.

HadMatter (4) - Lord Mhork, serrapaladin, Seanald, TehBrawlGuy

HadMatter (4) - Lord Mhork, serrapaladin,, TehBrawlGuy Seanald

Aj the Epic (formerly HadMatter) (4) - Lord Mhork, serrapaladin, Seanald, TehBrawlGuy

TehBrawlGuy (2) - Aj the Epic, serrapaladin
Aj the Epic (2) - Seanald, TehBrawlGuy

Looking for all the world like Seanald was trying to move away from Serra's voting position.
So not "making stuff up" but trying to interpret mod errored vote counts.

I like vote counts, they are hard facts. (Usually :p)

[Baby Spice]

baby, care to answer my question?

um, no.

The who would I NK if I was scum one right?

Shouldn't be asked, shouldn't be answered.

Firstly it provides so much wine you could sell it by the case, and secondly it can help scum if they're in doubt.

[Baby Spice]

Hyperion is probably town. As you said it's a suicide move for scum. There are ways that scum could make the claim and try and pull it off, but since Seanald hasn't come out and said he was roleblocked or the like, Hyp is probably town.

Seanalds #488 looked promising, and the pretty colours made it look nice. But somehow he seems to be going down the "There's scum on that wagon" and gives nothing but town reads. What really stood out was:
"serrapaladin, Wisdom, fuzzybutternut" all pretty blue and all in a row, just screams rule-of-three to me. Especially with my strongest scum read in there. Then calls the Serra wagon, minus the flipped TBG, "Pretty suspicious". (Look, three names again. Limo, me, Glork)

This comment is strange though:
"Also, Serra counterwagon doesn't always imply that the wagon was constructed to save someone."
If it's a counter wagon, then actually it does.

I'd be down with a Seanald lynch. Serra's scummier though.

[Baby Spice]

AJ, I don't think you have a clue what you are talking about.
Not one single clue.

Sean, simply put when scum gives a town/scum list with three people on it, one of them will be scum. It's not probability, it's psychology.

I don't understand Wisdom's vote, but in iso'ing hm I did discover the following concerning Hyp's tracker claim.

It's literally a suicide move to do as scum.

AJ, does this make Wisdom scum too?

[Baby Spice]

Babyspice, why'd you knowingly copy Wisdom's reason then? (Remember two things even about that: Situation at Wisdom's post could've had Hyperion lynched, by your post it's clear he wasn't going to be. And Wisdom has more towncred than you).

Hmm, pretty sure I said I spotted it when I looked at Wisdom's iso in response to being asked about Wisdom's vote, which means I didn't knowingly copy it.

But nice non-answer.

[Baby Spice]

t three p

No, in his commentary Seanald specifically refers to the three middle blue separately to no-point, and again for the off wagon, specifically gives GNR a null compared to the other three's "could be scum"

Seanald himself, not me.

[Baby Spice]

Hmm, forgot I said that.

[Baby Spice]

But he did. Specifically.

Not going to quote him since it's difficult on the phone, but go read what he wrote for yourself.

[Baby Spice]

Having a slight town read on all the middle people (three of them) is what made it stand out as an ro3.

[Baby Spice]

Ok, Sean first then.

Intent to hammer.
Claim time.

NoPoint, for the vote count you quoted, the HadMatter wagon had stalled because Aj had taken over.

[Baby Spice]

I love a good scumslip in the morning.

Vote Mac

[Baby Spice]

Is it just me, or was those some really scummy post by both Sera and Limo?

Vote Serra

[Baby Spice]

and Limo, what did you mean muted?

[Baby Spice]

Fuzzy, since when could voting my number one suspect for damn near the entire game ever be considered OMGUS?

[Baby Spice]

Lol, fuzzy, that was her first post back. I mean, she's still scum, just not for that reason.

I was just going to question him on that.

I thought that asking Fuzzy if voting my number one suspect in my first post of the day is his definition of OMGUS.

So Serra, why are you answering a question that was asked of me?

So Fuzzy, in exactly what way is voting my number one scumspect in my first post of the day OMGUS?

Oh, and Serra:

Oh, and Serra, answering a question directed at me about you. That is really scummy.

The rest. Can we lynch Serra scum now?

[Baby Spice]

First what and second what?

But I noticed that you started personal attacks instead of answering questions.

So Serra, when did I call Fuzzy an idiot?

[Baby Spice]

Cool.

You're first answer, which was to a question by Wisdom, was wrong in that it was designed to not answer the question, but as you put it, be dismissive. Wisdom asked for quotes, you provided a dismissive comment.
The second was both right and wrong, in that it was my first post of the day but I am not scum. Your answer was also dismissive, in that it was trying to remove the attention from Fuzzy's scummy as hell vote. "Haha, silly Fuzzy" instead of "Haha, scummy Fuzzy" if you will.

In essence, you are trying to take what are valid questions and denigrate them, not answer them. Reframing them, if you will, as pointless or valueless.
This is scummy. It is scummy because it is scum who try to not answer questions or to reframe questions about them to undermine the impact of said questions. It is not a thing that town need to do.

[Baby Spice]

Then the last part implies I am scum trying to denigrate valid questions directed at you? Are we scumbuddies, with me secretly protecting you from poignant questions, while superficially pushing your lynch?

Cool misrep.

Let me fix that for you though.

Valid question directed at me about you and valid question from me directed at Fuzzy.

btw, nice linkage attempt.

As to Fuzzy, why Silly and not scummy?

[Baby Spice]

Ok Wisdom, Limo.

Little actual content. Damn near nothing D1.

Voting Seanald pretty hard at the moment, but no actual case beyond "shenanigans". No real mention either.
Limo spends more time arguing with Wisdom and about Serra.
The comment about not listening to Wisdom struck me as odd, though after Glorks rant I can understand it if Limo thinks that Wisdom lead us to two mis-lynches. But I don't.

Mild scum read and willing to lynch.


Wisdom, technically PGO is an initialism not an acronym.

Glork, I think Wisdom is town. Perhaps slightly overzelous driving the Mac lynch, but still town. I just don't see scum driving things like that.

[Baby Spice]

Wisdom, is there a special reason that you aren't considering the case of Serra being scum?

Especially as towards the end of your post above you put him the group of six that you think contains three scum.

[Baby Spice]

Game that your role was scum

Can you point to a town version of the role? I've never seen one.

[Baby Spice]

Try using search.

Whisperer right?

Only time I found it was scum roles and once as a scum fake claim. Oh, once as someone who could talk to the dead.

Perhaps it tyrns up with a different name somewhere but as of right now I'm thinking it's a scum claim.

[Baby Spice]

Not fussed.

[Baby Spice]

V/LA

family medical.

Might be a day, might be a few days.

[Baby Spice]

Tell you what. Since we are claiming, sod the order discussion.



Smokescreen, which is an x-shot commuter for some reason.

Not telling the x, duh.

Didn't use it last night.


(Was hoping for some cool flame thrower ability. Oh well)

Oh Limo

I'd really like to see you claim in your next post.

[Baby Spice]

Vote Limo

[Baby Spice]

Please stop trying to deflect, or are you trying to seek advice for a fake claim?

[Baby Spice]

Yeah because "Lynch him he claimed scum" worked so well before and why are you interupting the claim process?

[Baby Spice]

Why is it exactly that you want me to be claiming before Wisdom?

Because I am far more suspicious of you than Wisdom.

[Baby Spice]

[/b]Unvote[/b]

[Baby Spice]

Unvote

[Baby Spice]

We should probably ask for results now.

[Baby Spice]

Doubt Wisdom is scum, sure Limo is.

Vote Limo

[Baby Spice]

Ahh we get to it.
Limo doesn't like that I asked him to claim before you Wisdom.

[Baby Spice]

I don't like the fact she has basically active lurked since she claimed.

Yeah, basically in all three games I'm in.
Tail end of that family thing from last week.


Sera, Limo, Sean.

I've posted reasons during the game and will collate/summerize them later.

Limo first though since it looked like he was trying to get info for a fake claim. To the point that he was reluctant to claim at L-1.

[Baby Spice]

Even if he's scum and lies, it's information.

[Baby Spice]

Fuzzy, did you actually claim for realz?

[Baby Spice]

What Limo, do you deny that you refused to claim even at L-1?

Why didn't you give out your results? Afraid of being busted for lieing with people left to claim after you?

Or perhaps you're hoping the misrep of me will stand without being noticed?

As I said Id do this morning. (Ok, it's now after lunch)

On Limo:

Little actual content. Damn near nothing D1.

Voting Seanald pretty hard

then

, but no actual case beyond "shenanigans". No real mention either.
Limo spends more time arguing with Wisdom and about Serra.
The comment about not listening to Wisdom struck me as odd, though after Glorks rant I can understand it if Limo thinks that Wisdom lead us to two mis-lynches. But I don't.

Add to that the whole refusing to claim, argueing the order of claiming, and now refusing to give results.

Funny response to claims, waiting to follow what the general consensus. Especially on me. Basically waiting to find out if he should find my claim scummy or not, whilst ignoring the request for his.

We'll add misrepping now too.

Fuzzy: Oh you could have made that easier to find.

On Serra:
I thought

D1

he got cocky and slipped while tired posting.
I think the TBG wagon was a counter wagon, which can only be counter to Serra.
I think Serra's #376 is again a slip. Guilt causing Serra to defend himself against something that wasn't put forward. At least not explicitly.

We'll skip to Sean for a sec.
As I've said, much of what made me think Sean was scum early was links to Serra.
Also:

Seanalds #488 looked promising, and the pretty colours made it look nice. But somehow he seems to be going down the "There's scum on that wagon" and gives nothing but town reads. What really stood out was:
"serrapaladin, Wisdom, fuzzybutternut" all pretty blue and all in a row, just screams rule-of-three to me. Especially with my strongest scum read in there. Then calls the Serra wagon, minus the flipped TBG, "Pretty suspicious". (Look, three names again. Limo, me, Glork)

This comment is strange though:
"Also, Serra counterwagon doesn't always imply that the wagon was constructed to save someone."
If it's a counter wagon, then actually it does.

Now lets cut back to Serra for a sec:

Weird NK is either PR-hunting or because the most universal townreads are actually scum. It's all WIFOMy though, so probably not worth getting hung up over.

I called this post of Serra scummy at the time. It reads like Serra is trying to discourage analysing the NK. Dismiss it as, well, on random town.

But look at NoPoints' votes/suspects.

Serra and Seanald.

Also, Limo you said you were going to go back and see if you could work out why NoPoint was the NK, but you never commented on it again. Why?

I believe we're waiting on a result claim from Sean, and quite frankly once we get it, or a few more hours have passed, I'll happily hammer.

[Baby Spice]

Also, Limo you said you were going to go back and see if you could work out why NoPoint was the NK, but you never commented on it again. Why?

Lethargy hit me. Why are you bringing this up, is it relevant for you to determine my alignment, or are you trying to sugarcoat a case on me?

No it struck me as funny that you said you'd do it, then Serra said something about it, then nobody actually followed it up.
Then when I did look, nopoint was sus on Serra.

I wondered if you'd followed Serra's "It's not worth doing" comment.

[Baby Spice]

Is it optimal strategy for scum to flat out refuse claiming?
Is arguing the order of claiming scummy?

Well no never, and, yes quite often. But when you're trying to fake claim and you're not sure what to claim, or how. Then you kind of have to.

The misrep was asking "Is that all" after I said I would post thing later.

The funny you addressed a little, but it was more around mine than others. Funny weird/scummy, not funny haha.

And hearty laughs were had.

[Baby Spice]

Limo claimed non consecutive watcher.

[Baby Spice]

Vote Serra

I didn't use my commute last night.

[Baby Spice]

Serra, why would my last two lines be related?

I still think you're scum. I thought Seanald was scum and had links to you.
Seanald flipped scum so vote #1 scumspect.


The other was providing info for the town.

[Baby Spice]

and your going to believe what you want to believe. Me and Serra are just hardcore budding man, My dick is right in his asshole air tight feeling right.

Yeah, links...

Oof course he'd say something like that right after some of those said links were pointed out.

[Baby Spice]

It bugs me that #1 scumspect suggests a good idea. It bothers me more that #1 town read suggests a pro scum modification to it.
Bothers me even more that Fuzzy is in favour of the modified version.

[Baby Spice]

Well, if there's any doubt about fuzzy's alignment, we should probably lynch him and vote on who he should target?

It sudenly occured to me earlier.
This is perfect scum play if Fuzzy is town and they think they can control his vengeful shot. Lynch Fuzzy to 5, Fuzzy shoot town to 4, scum win.

Aren't Vengeful the ones that only work when lynched?

According to the Wiki, yes

I'm really worried that Glork is actually scum. I think the No Kill makes perfect sense if he is, as he was the most obvious NK target N3. I think he's trying to draw attention away from that fact with his musings about a potential traitor, for which there is no in-game evidence. With Aj's Messenger role flipping town, it would make sense for the other communication role to be scum.

Disagree. If either of Glork or Wisdom is scum then scum shooting one would make the other look fairly bad imo. So by not shooting one of them it makes it look like either could be scum. But to not shoot anybody? That sounds more like derping, and really, to explain N3 you have to explain AJ last night.

Baby's role is sort of the counterpart to mine, so it'd make sense to her being scum, too.

Or it makes more sense for you to be scum. You know, the always untargetable over the once off.

The more I think about it, the more I think that no-lynch is the play here.

[Baby Spice]

What method Fuzzy?

[Baby Spice]

You literally have me scratching my head now.

[Baby Spice]

Let me get this right Serra.

First you say that if anybody has any doubts on Fuzzy, that we should lynch him and vote to direct his kill.
Now you say he's town so we should lynch him and vote to direct his kill.

Am I the only one seeing the scum trying to win this and avoid another night?

[Baby Spice]

What say we lynch Serra then, Spice?

I've been up for a Serra lynch most of the game.

But, even if Serra is scum, as I'm sure he is, it is still better for the following day for us to no-lynch today and lynch Serra tomorow.

It sets up a 2/1 lylo instead of a 3/1 lylo.

Actually, do we still have any useful night actions? If we do, another night from no-lynching could be useful.

Yup, I'm totally trying to avoid another night.

Limo the watcher as if you didn't know.

[Baby Spice]

I think Fuzzy misses the point that a 2/1 final day lylo is better than a 3/1 final day lylo.

[Baby Spice]

Nope. Didn't think there was any chance of me being the NK target so didn't bother.

[Baby Spice]

I haven't used it at all yet. Might as well admit now that it's a one shot deal.

[Baby Spice]

The actual benifit of a no-lynch is in the final day. It is considered better to face a 2 town/1 scum lylo than a 3 town/1 scum lylo if there's doubt over who that final scum is.

Less chance for the scum to talk a mislynch onto someone.


But, if you have real, real strong town reads or real real strong scum reads on two scum, then there is no point in waiting.

In my case, I'm only really positive about one scum read. Hence the no-lynch push.

[Baby Spice]

Mike, the above comment ignores things like vengeful.

But it looks like people want to lynch so onward.

[Baby Spice]

Lol, I point you back to my earlier post and say stop trying to influence Fuzzy.
If you're going to do this then let him decide.

[Baby Spice]

In order:
Well Serra obviously.
Then Mike.
Then Glork/Wisdom.

[Baby Spice]

Sorry Wisdom. Two scum watchers?

[Baby Spice]

I suppose a scum Limo could have forgotten what Sean claimed and fake claimed watcher. There were nearly 500 posts between the two claims and getting that claim out of Limo was like pulling teeth from a chook.

To be fair Limo was reluctant to claim in another game we were in together.

[Baby Spice]

Sean would have if he had some sort of framer ability in there.
But that leads right back to you pointing out how careful Limo is anyway.

[Baby Spice]

Oh, simply that wether Sean told the truth about the watcher or no, it doesn't change your point about Limo being careful.

[Baby Spice]

Of course that assumes that wisdom is both town and correct is his opinion on Limo claiming.

But read the game. More importantly read Serra saying lynch Fuzzy if you think he could be scum and lynch Fuzzy he's town.
Then backing down when Fuzzy said he might shoot Serra.

Fuzzy, what?

[Baby Spice]

Wisdom, when you claimed why didn't you at least claim x-shot if you were s 1shot?

[Baby Spice]

And I think you're being suckered by scum.

Lynch Fuzzy then several posts later, Who should we venge-kill.

Yep, two of the three biggest scumspects all game are back to being the two biggest scumspects.

Vote Fuzzy

Let them die by their own push.

[Baby Spice]

Just shoot who you think you should shoot Fuzzy.

[Baby Spice]

I really thought Glork blew it with too strong a bus. Still not sure how we won that.
Thanks Oversoul. Please pencil me in for the large