Mini 1430 - Pokémon uPick Mafia (Game Over!)

[Glork]

Confirming and stuff.

[Glork]

Vote: Wisdom

[Glork]

Hardly, though, i can say that lynching me will help lower the pool drastically, if not kill of scum simultaneously.

THE SUBERSIVE "YOU'D BETTER NOT LYNCH ME" THREATS.

I call.

Vote: Fuzzy

[Glork]

UNVOTE: fuzzy

I don't even know what he's doing, but I have the distinct feeling we should leave him alone for now.

Let's try
VOTE: MadHatter

Hey Hatter, what's up with the rolefishing? "Round these parts" means you're not a newb, where are you from and how much have you played?

Speaking of rolefishing, Seanald should stop with that, too.

Mhork is awesome, why does he give you scumvibes, Wisdom?

You die next.

[Glork]

VOTE: Mad Hatter

Die.

[Glork]

This counterwagon is bad.

Live.

[Glork]

I've adopted a VI kind of style. I like it. Get over it.

GUYS I AM A VILLAGE IDIOT SUPERSAINT.


Still die.

[Glork]

Well that was a quick read.

Guarantee 1-2 scum out of {Fuzzy, Serra, Seanald).

Bank it.

Let's get this shit done.

[Glork]

Tell you what Glork, let's lynch Serra, and if he turns up town, I'll shoot Seanald. Kay? Kay
VOTE: Serrapaladin

Nope. You just claimed there are 2 scum, and that you can shoot people.

Either it's multiball and you're on one team, or you're an SK.

Either way, you are the lynch today.

[Glork]

The whole "I DARE YOU TO LYNCH ME, I JUST WANT TO KILL SOME SCUM FIRST" tells me it's likely an SK thing. That's some srs self-preservation. The supersaint fake softclaim didn't fool anyone, so now he's magically a Vig and "doesn't care if he's lynched" he just wants to kill someone first.

He could be, like, a Mafia Strongman or something. But nothing about fuzzy's play is remotely protown.

[Glork]

Glork, why is hatter town?

Process of elimination.

[Glork]

Glork, why is hatter town?

Process of elimination.

Glork, can you explain this better?

Limo, is Serra worse than HadMatter? Why?

I could.

[Glork]

Will you please go read my posts and figure it out for yourself?

[Glork]

Glork, with 3 scum out there, isn't it a bit early to hand out townreads on PoE?

Not when I've found three scum.

[Glork]

Fuzzy has "not" claimed all sorts of crap so I suggest we give him one night to be a vig/be vigged.

He clearly has claimed a power role that can kil, and he clearly isn't convened about being shot by the mafia.

That means he's either mafia himself, or a bulletproof SK.

Given his "only two mafia" comment from earlier, I'm leaning SK.

Regardless, HE. NEEDS. TO. DIE. NOW.

[Glork]

Glork, with 3 scum out there, isn't it a bit early to hand out townreads on PoE?

Not when I've found three scum.

Oh, and not when TWO of those three scums jump the HadMatter wagon.

[Glork]

Your logic is bad, Glork.

HadMatter is town by PoE because you've already found three scum. The scum you've found is scum because of the bad wagon on HadMatter, who is town by PoE.

Circular logic is circular.

If fuzzy actually were scum or SK, I'm sure he'd be playing differently.

No.

HM is town because:
A) I've found 3 scum
B) The two obvious scum buddies (Serra and Seanad) jumped HM.

I NEVER SAID you were scum because you jumped on HM. THAT IS YOUR GUILTY CONSCIENCE SPEAKING.

[Glork]

BZZZZZT.

The fact that you went after HM about rolefishing and voted HM, while giving Seanald nothing more than a verbal slap on the wrist while the two of you voted in tandem is ONE OF GLORK'S BIGGEREST SCUMTELLS LIEK EVAR.

[Glork]

My play makes perfect sense. You just need to get on my level.

Give me a sec and I'll go find a post from a recent-ish game where I also caught two scum using this exact same tell.

[Glork]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p4305892

BOOM. ROASTED.

Player A calls Player B scum, yet Players A and B both vote Player C, offering enough distance from each other while pushing an alternate mislynch.

Vote: serrapaladin

Hey. Hey. Hey. Let me guess. Once you mislynch HM you're SUDDENLY GOING TO WANT TO REVISIT (READ: BUS) YOUR SCUMBUDDY SEANALD.

My crazy voodoo magic, it can see the future.

[Glork]

Lynch who you truly think is scum.

He clearly has claimed a power role that can kil, and he clearly isn't convened about being shot by the mafia.

That means he's either mafia himself, or a bulletproof SK.

Given his "only two mafia" comment from earlier, I'm leaning SK.

Regardless, HE. NEEDS. TO. DIE. NOW.

Uh... what?

So, what part of me saying you need to die doesn't fit "lynch who I truly think is scum"?

You're lucky that serrapaladin is actively trying to out himself and Seanald as hard as humanly possible. You may just weasel out of today with your life intact.

[Glork]

OK, then please explain to me how that "tell" applies here. Have you even read the game?

OH GOOD, SO NOW I GET TO TREAT YOU LIKE YOU ARE FOUR YEARS OLD.


You are Player A.
Seanald is Player B.
HadMatter is Player C.
You distanced from Seanald by chastising him for rolefishing.
You and Seanald both voted HadMatter.


This is a TEXTBOOK APPLICATION OF THE TELL. It even has the added bonus of you actively making HM out to be scummy for rolefishing, while just making a side comment to Seanald to create some distance.

[Glork]

Nope. You can't spin doctor your way out of this one. But just to be crystal clear, what is your CURRENT opinion of Seanald's alignment.

Speaking of which, I'm actually pretty interested to see Seanald's perspective on all of this.

[Glork]

I think Glork got lucky once and is trying to force fit something here.

Unvote

More when I finally get this damn computer working

Don't make me start shamelessly bragging about how I'm widely considered to be one of the best players in mafia.

I mean, I'll do it. But then you'll all just be annoyed at me because deep down you'll know that I'm right.

[Glork]

does anyone want to come in to defend Mad Hatter's dissapearance, there is no way that is fuckin town at all.

OH, I DON'T KONW. Maybe becauase it's St Patty's Day weekend. He hasn't posted on site since 2:30pm EDT on Friday.

For fuck's sake. People will invent ALL SORTS OF REASONS to pile bullshit onto someone when they can't defend themselves.




FUZZY, IF HM GETS LYNCHED AS TOWN, YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO "VIG" (WINK WINK) SEANALD TONIGHT.

[Glork]

Seanald, that literally sounds like "Your slot was scum, but I don't want to lynch you so you'd better act like town."

No, it sounds like reaching really hard to make a site flake look like a "rage quit" for getting "caught."

Vote: Seanald

[Glork]

This is a prod dodge.

I kind of forgot I was in a mafia game; I'll catch up later today.

[Glork]

ok yeah, not much to "catch up" on.

Vote: serrapaladin

[Glork]

ALSO ALSO ALSO

Protown Ascetics are pretty rare. They don't have an active ability so they can't be roleblocked or jailkept, can't be tracked/watched anywhere... literally the only thing is they can't be protected from a nightkill.

Scum ascetics, however... can make untraceable nightkills.
They can make nightkills without fear of being roleblocked.
....but they can still be vigged, which balances them somewhat.


Sooooo yeah. Serra is scum. And fuzzy is still scum. And Seanald is still scum.

[Glork]

EBWOP: Well, protown Ascetic

TOWNIES

are pretty rare. I should prolly clarify that. Ascetic is a good way of "fixing" a cop or other power role so that they cannot be protected. Buuuut yeah. Not a townie.

[Glork]

are you talking to your self limo? lol

I have a town read on serra, and I have yet to see an ascetic flip scum, im in belief that it is a town balancer right now.

You should have thrown him under the bus.

Fuzzy, "vig" Seanald tonight.

[Glork]

Welp.

Vote: Seanald

Although I'd gladly vote Serrapaladin or fuzzy, too.



FUZZY, WHO DID YOU "VIG" LAST NIGHT?

[Glork]

TehBrawlGuy (7) - Aj the Epic, serrapaladin, Wisdom, fuzzybutternut, Lord Mhork, Hyperion, nopointinactingup (LYNCH)

btw, 100% chance of there being 1-2 scum on this wagon.

Scum LOOOOOOVE quick end-of-day lynches on people who don't have an opportunity to claim. Minus points to Hyperion and nopointinactingup, too.

[Glork]

Glork:
If you had to lynch one of Baby Spice, Limo, and nopointinactingup, who would it be and why?

If anybody was busing Serra, it was nopoint.

If Serra turns out to be town, I'd likely want Baby Spice dead before nopoint.

[Glork]

Also, I don't have any reason to disbelieve that Hyperion would lie about his claim and result, but it's just as easy for one of the other scumbags to have made a kill last night and Seanald to have sat at home doing nothing. I'm sensing a bit of a mechanical theme as well, so Seanald taking no action is incredibly null for me.

That said, if people really want to give him a pass for the result, I would certainly consent to a Serra lynch.

[Glork]

HEY LOOK ANOTHER SHITWAGON TO COUNTER A WAGON ON SCUM


I would fucking no lynch before I lynched Baby Spice at this point.

[Glork]

Limo, why is Seanald scum, why is serra scum, in detail.

BZZZZZT.

The fact that you went after HM about rolefishing and voted HM, while giving Seanald nothing more than a verbal slap on the wrist while the two of you voted in tandem is ONE OF GLORK'S BIGGEREST SCUMTELLS LIEK EVAR.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p4305892

BOOM. ROASTED.

Player A calls Player B scum, yet Players A and B both vote Player C, offering enough distance from each other while pushing an alternate mislynch.

Vote: serrapaladin

Hey. Hey. Hey. Let me guess. Once you mislynch HM you're SUDDENLY GOING TO WANT TO REVISIT (READ: BUS) YOUR SCUMBUDDY SEANALD.

My crazy voodoo magic, it can see the future.

OK, then please explain to me how that "tell" applies here. Have you even read the game?

OH GOOD, SO NOW I GET TO TREAT YOU LIKE YOU ARE FOUR YEARS OLD.


You are Player A.
Seanald is Player B.
HadMatter is Player C.
You distanced from Seanald by chastising him for rolefishing.
You and Seanald both voted HadMatter.


This is a TEXTBOOK APPLICATION OF THE TELL. It even has the added bonus of you actively making HM out to be scummy for rolefishing, while just making a side comment to Seanald to create some distance.

....and then I ask Serra point blank what he thinks of Seanald and get "town side of null"? Yep. Scum wanting a little distance but mostly defending his buddy.


ALSO HOLY FUCKING SHIT NOPOINTINACTINGUP GETS MAD SCUMPOINTS FOR HIS "I AGREE THIS IS A GOOD SCUMTELL BUT YOU COULD BE WRONG" DEFENSE OF SEANALD AND SERRA.



Seanald, Serra, NoPoint.
Fuzzy if we haven't won by then.
Wisdom is erasing my earlier townread on him, if one of my three picks turns out to be protown.

[Glork]

I don't like the push in her. I've not bothered to meta her yet but the eye test says her posts are a genuine attempt to find scum that are being picked apart for a general lack of cohesiveness and/or articulation, rather than outright scummy behavior.

The fact that three of the top five people I suspect at this point make up most of her wagon really doesn't help.

Like I said. It's a shitwagon designed to make noise in a direction that is not-at-the-fairly-obvious-scums.


PEdit: Odds diminish, but I'd stake that Seanald is scum regardless. If he flips town, then I'd take a harder look at Baby Spice, fuzzy, and Limo, and you would slide down my list.


Wisdom, whatever happened to your "Seanald said he'd check in 21 hours before deadline but posted elsewhere-but-not-here 3 hours before" observation? It inveniently disappeared when he BabySpice alternative presented itself. What specifically makes you feel Seanald is leaning town?

[Glork]

Oh boy, a thinly veiled false dilemma.

It's not Seanald, NoPoint, you, is it?

[Glork]

Also,

First of all, it amazed me that his reads were almost identical copies of mine.

See: Limo/Glork.


Also, I've already talked about how I feel about Ascetic claims like the one Serra made. And given that we have a dead bodyguard, a dead roleblocker, and a claimed tracker, I'm even more certain that he is some type of Mafia Ascetic. Tracker targets Seanald, while Serra makes the kill, being untrackable? Seanald winds up with boatloads of false towncred on the bad claim, and suddenly Baby Spice is the flavor of the day.

[Glork]

FUCK. I DON'T KNOW WHO I WANT TO LYNCH TODAY.

I'm back to Seanald/Serra/NoPoint, and thinking Wisdom is just being too clever by half.

[Glork]

Also, I'm SUPER paranoid that the scums tried to kill me last night, and I was protected. So expect me to drag today out as long as possible and make sure everybody is crystal clear on where they stand.

If anybody lynches Baby Spice soon, they die. In fact, if anybody lynches ANYBODY soon, they die. We have a week and a half to get this right. Let's not fuck it up.

[Glork]

Does that mean you think there's a decent chance Baby and I are either both town or both scum?

How rare are scum ascetics? That'd be pretty overpowered, if you ask me, sort of like an uber GF. [/wifom]

Why would the given flips make a scum ascetic more likely than a town one? Surely Ascetic Townie is just a negative utility role for town to balance the protown PR's, in that it can't be guarded, copped, tracked etc.

Why do you think you were targeted, Glork? I think Mhork was a pretty reasonable scum kill.

It means I don't know yet, because I'm still tossing the idea around my head of two 2-person scumgroups, one involving Fuzzy.

I can't speak for current setup meta, as I've literally played like three games in the past 3-4 months. But based on my past experience, Ascetics are rare in general, and probably about 50/50 in terms of alignment. A scum ascetic is essentially an untrackable/unblockable killer. It is indeed VERY powerful. But it also fits given what we know about the game (dead 2-shot RB, bodyguard), and have seen claimed (tracker).

Someting like multiball with Serra/Seanald, and Baby/Fuzzy could be possible. I don't know yet. I'm in typical hyperglorkfigureoutandbreakthesetup mode. I'm fairly confident that after today, the town will have all of the tools and information we need to piece everything together and win the game, even if I die tonight. What I want is people actively discussing what they think and feel are possibilities given what we've seen claimed, and what information we have based on voting/patterns, etc. There's already tons of information there, just not enough discussion and analysis of said info.

[Glork]

EBWOP: Also, I feel like I was targeted because I'm fairly confident in my reads, and am generally a threat to any scum. I know that's probably going to sound cocky, but it's true. I have a reputation as one of the best scumhunters ever, at least two people said they felt I was protown iirc, nobody seemed to suspect me, and I was pretty adamant about lynching Serra over TBG. Whether Serra's scum, scum-in-a-multiball, or town, there's plenty of reason for the scums to want me dead. I'm just kind of used to feeling that way.

[Glork]

I'm not trying to convince you (or anyone) that I was in fact targeted. And obviously nobody else is going to feel as strongly about it as I do. I was just kind of posting stream of consciousness, and it's something that's been on my mind quite a bit.

[Glork]

Umm, fwiw my role and Pokemon have nothing to do with each other as far as I can tell.

[Glork]

V/LA this weekend

[Glork]

unvote

Seanald claim. No hammers until I get done with weekend and get to extract info. Related note,

FoS Wisdom

.

[Glork]

Mod: You have Baby Spice listed twice and me listed not-at-all.

I don't buy the alleged scumslip.

I don't understand why alternate wagons keep popping up. When Seanald finally dies (because let's be honest, he's not long for this world), the Baby Spice and Mac wagons will be interesting.

[Glork]

Oh right, I unvoted for no-quick-hammah. Still, BS has two votes in the latest VC.

[Glork]

Holy shit are you thinking at all?

IF SOMEBODY TRACKED ME NOWHERE NIGHT ONE I WOULD MAKE UP A FAKECLAIM THAT FIT WITH NOT TAKING AN ACTION NIGHT ONE.




For fuck's sake. THINK for even one second.

[Glork]

Plus it's a very good point that in order to use his abilities, the game would have to go to SIX NIGHTS. For a MINI.

The claim stinks of bullshit.

Vote: Seanald

[Glork]

Yeah, because fake claiming THREE DIFFERENT ROLES IN ONE is such an EPIC SCUM MOVE.

maybe you should think mate. Claiming JOAT is pretty much suicide for scum.

Suppose he is a Mafia 1-Shot Redirector. Powerful role in and of itself. Game ends after 4 nights anyway if e plays it right, so nobody would even know his claim was full of shit until they're all dead an lost anyway.

[Glork]

Yes it would be a potentially powerful role. But scums fake claim powerful roles all the time. Are you seriously fucking saying that you won't consider a claimed POWERFUL ROLE or a lynch because they could be town? Because if so, I'll gladly fake-claim something obscenely powerful, even though I'm already protown.

Also, your hypothetical of what if someone else were a Redirector is irrelevant because NONE OF IS GOT TRACKED NOWHERE N1 AND NONE OF US ARE FAKE-CLAIMING A JOAT WITH A REDIRECTOR.

The point is that Seanald, who has already been demonstrably scummy, claimed something that CONVENIENTY FITS with public information that has ALREADY BEEN CLAIMED, and his role DOESN'T MAKE SENSE BECAUSE HE WOULD NEVER BE ABLE TO USE ALL OF THOSE ABILITIES.


Like... If you legitimately thought Seanald was protown based on his gameplay, fine, I'd debate that in a perfectly normal and civilized manner. But to say we are not lynching him because he made a convenient and powerful claim is BEYOND retarded.

[Glork]

Question:

Does anybody know how Mac usually responds to power role claims? Does he always have an aversion to lunch in power, or is this an indication of BIG PLAYS?

[Glork]

*lynching. Autocorrect.

[Glork]

Also, I don't want Wisdom to answer that question. Confirmation bias and all that.

[Glork]

Or if he does, I want linked examples.

OK NO MORE SPAM POSTING I HAVE WORK TO DO AND A GODDAMNED PARTY WEEKEND TO GET READY TO HOST.

[Glork]

Uh, no?

Just because you are my strongest read and I want you lynched does not mean I am tunneling. I have talked about Serra, fuzzy, Wisdom, NoPoint, and Baby Spice, and now I'm tossing around the idea that Wisdom was right about Mac after all.

[Glork]

Because "tossing around an idea" clearly means I have a fleshed out "case" against you.

Less misrep, please.

[Glork]

Because people word things weirdly all the time. Of alleged "slips," I'd say less than 10% of the ones I see are actual scum slips.

Mac may be scum in and of its own right, but not because of the alleged slip.

Also, your Post 803 is moronic. The real question is, how do you feel about the potential existence of a scum odd-night JoaT and a town even-night JoaT?

[Glork]

Ok. Out of commission until at least Monday probably.

[Glork]

Unvote, vote: Mac

Die. Fucking die. Not even an a opportunity for a claim after you had previously resisted.

NOT protown behavior regardless of what happens today.

[Glork]

I'm really ducking drinks and the sums are Seanald and limo and maybe wisdom but I think wisdom is just retardedle stupid in thinking he is OMFG THE SHITS FOR SCUM SLIP when they're such a BULLSHIT reason to push a lynch.

[Glork]

No. Fuck you. I'm not even going to talk to you in QT because you're dirty fucking scum.l doing EVERYTHING FUCKING POSSIBLE to protect Seanald.

His "fuck all" post was exasperation at your DEDICATED IDIOCY because IN CASE YOU DIDN'T FUCKING NOTICE ON THAT SAME PAGE HE REITERATEDTHAT HE DID NOT SCUMSLIP.

BUT NOPE RIFHT AFTER I INSISTED TOU NOT FUCKING LYNCH WHILE I WAS GONE BECAUSE I COULD FIGURE OUT TH GAME YOU GET SOME BITCH LYNCHED ON BULLSHIT REASONS.

You're dead tomorrow. Not voting anyone else until Wisdom dies.

[Glork]

EBWOP: that was directs to wisdom

[Glork]

I neighborized wisdom because I thought he was protown but I made a mistake. I don't fucjk g get how someone who was all FOING TO BE SUPER PROTOWN would shut down the day wen I wxicitlt insisted that NOBODY LYNCH WHILE I WAS ON V/LA.


BUT NOPE. WISDOM WENT OFF THE FUCKING DEEP END TO SAVE SEANALD AND GET SOMEONE ELSE LYNCHED.

First it was Baby Spice but nobody else bought that bullshit so he got Mac instead.

Fuck. I've not been this pissed in ages

[Glork]

Well not a day, 8 hours later. But still.

It's not like people have LIVES THAT MIGHT KEEP THEM OCCUPIED FOR UP TO EIGHT HOURS AT A TIME.

[Glork]

The best part is YOU CAN'T EVEN FUCKING KILL ME NOW BECAUSE IF INFLIP TOWN IN THE MORNING YOU AND SEANALD ARE AUTO-LYNCHED.

[Glork]

OH, HOW CLEVER. YOU ARE OH SO WITTY TO ASSERT THAT YOU CANNOT KILL BECAUSE YOU ARE TOWN. SUCH A POST HAS NEVER BEEN MADE BEFORE.

[Glork]

There are so many people I want to lynch right now.

But let's be serious for a second. Back half of the Mac wagon had scum. Chance to lynch a breadcrumbed power role on a "slip" that never existed? Definitely scum among {AJ, Serra, Limo}, and unless Limo is really pulling my strings, it ain't him.

Scum group is Seanald, Wisdom, and either AJ or Serra. I will elaborate with a full case probably tomorrow sometime, when I have the opportunity to do so.

Vote: Seanald

[Glork]

I'm not scum, Glork. Stop being so wrong.

Why isn't Limo scum?

I suppose he could be double busing Seanald and you, but it's more likely he's just right,

Also, I'll have to dig up the game but in my 8 years on site the only time I've seen mirror Even/Odd night roles, they were on opposite factions. The assumption that Seanald is town because of Mac's flip is beyond ludicrous. It is remarkably terrible mafia play.

[Glork]

What's FASCINATING to me is that Wisdom EVEN QUOTED AND TRIED TO DISCREDIT MAC'S SUPER OBVIOUS BRWADCRUMB OF AN ODD-NIGHT JOAT, meaning he thought Mac was scum and Seanald town yesterday. And yet now he wants to push the agenda that THERE'S NO WAY THEY ARE ON DIFFERENT FACTIONS.

Fun fact, he also tried to use "Seanald's claim is true" on me in the QT ad I had to flat-out tell him that proof if ability is not proof of alignment. Like I'd fall for that nonsense.


Am I really the only person who is sitting here looking at the massive pile of underhanded tactics Wisdom has used to try to manhandle the town into pushing his agendas, and going "there is no way this is protown"?

[Glork]

So, uh.

Seanald. You posted and didn't claim your action last night. Why not?

[Glork]

You'd think that CLAIMED TOWN WITH NOTHING TO HIDE would readily volunteer this information. Y'know. Like Hyperion did. What's the deal, homeslice?

[Glork]

Glork, again, stop being ridiculous.

VOTE: Limo

Baby is very likely his partner, however I prefer Limo over Baby.

This makes me really want to lynch Baby, then you/Seanald.

[Glork]

Yeah, limo is very likely scum.

Aj, I can't kill anyone. My claim isn't bullshit. Infer for yourself what my role is.

Wisdom accidentally told me in the QT late last night.

He meant to type joat and typed your role instead.

Infer from that what you will.

[Glork]

Yeah and your tunneling will make me want to lynch you pretty soon if it continues.

Nah, this is pretty typical Glorktown when he's right but not being listened to.

I mean. I wanted Serra/Seanald over TBG, but you mislynched him.
I wanted Seanald over Mac, but you mislynched him while calling everyone who disagreed with the "slip" scummy for "not wanting to lynch obvscum."

BETTER GO AFTER GLORK. THAT ONE OUGHT TO WORK OUT WELL.

Votecount 1.9

TehBrawlGuy

(7) - Aj the Epic, serrapaladin, Wisdom,

fuzzybutternut

,

Lord Mhork

,

Hyperion

,

nopointinactingup

(LYNCH)

serrapaladin (4) - Limo, Baby Spice, Glork,

TehBrawlGuy

(L-3)
Not voting (2):

Guy_Named_Riggs

, Seanald

• .
  
• With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
  
• Deadline is on March 25 at 5:00 PM EST.
  
• Deadline has been reached.

^^^ Definitely scum on this awful mislynch.

Votecount 2.6

Seanald (2) -

nopointinactingup

, Glork
Baby Spice (3) -

Hyperion

, Seanald,

Mac

Mac

(6) - Wisdom,

Fuzzybutternut

, Baby Spice, Aj the Epic, serrapaladin, Limo (LYNCH)

Not voting (0):

• With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.
  
• Deadline is on April 14 at 11:00 PM EST.
  
• (expired on 2013-04-14 23:00:00)

^^^ Definitely scum on this awful mislynch.


You know what? Fine.

Vote: Wisdom

Bring it. I might consent to lynch AJ after looking at vote histories. But Wisdom is clearly driving the town in the wrong direction, and people ARE JUST EATING IT UP.
Also, still don't feel good about Serra's Ascetic claim + voting history.

[Glork]

^ That's bullshit.

WAIT.

WAIT.

WAIT.

HOLD THE FUCKING PHONE.

ARE YOU SAYING I LIED ABOUT WHAT YOU EDITED IN THE QT? YOU TYPED <OTHER ROLE ACRONYM> HERE AND EDITED IT WHEN I POSTED AND WENT "OH SO THAT'S WHAT FUZZY IS, NOW IT MAKES SENSE. WHY WERE YOU THINKING/TALKING ABOUT <OTHER ROLE>?" YOU THEN SAID YOU ALWAYS GET THE TWO CONFUSED.

FUCK.

NO THIS SHIT IS HAPPENING. EITHER ME OR WISDOM IS GETTING LYNCHED TODAY, AND IF IT'S ME, WISDOM IS DAMN SURE GETTING LYNCHED TOMORROW. I AM 100% OKAY WITH THIS 1v1.


SHIT. IS. FUCKING. ON.

[Glork]

NOPE. YOU KNOW WHAT YOU SAID AND YOU DON'T WANT TO ADMIT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT IT LAST NIGHT.

Fuck it.

I think he+scumbuddies had been talking about how you are a PGO (explains why nobody's died because of you, and why you haven't been killed), and he slipped up and mentioned PGO in the QT. He tried to edit it to JOAT but I caught it and asked about why he was taking or thinking about a PGO, and he blew it off.

Keep in mind this isn't lylo. If I'm lying about this in some shitgambit to just get him mislynched, I could drag my ENTIRE TEAM DOWN with me starting tomorrow. Wisdom is scum. 100% sure of it.

[Glork]

Even now, he's trying to downplay it.

"just glork and his bullshit."

I

dare

you to spin this on how I'm scum or some horseshit like that. Go ahead. Reason this one out for me. Explain how, with two mislynches, no dead scums, and players literally voting FOUR DIFFERENT PEOPLE today, while under virtually no suspicion, I would flip my shit over this as scum.

[Glork]

Believe what, fuzzy?

.....

I never talked about you or anyone else.

Do you ever proofread?

[Glork]

/facepalm

I'm going to take a break. I'm legit getting upset and frustrated, and this is becoming unfun. I joined a game with nobody I had played with (except GNR) because I wanted a breath of fresh air from playing with the same people over and over again. But trying to get people to see what I see is proving to be inherently frustrating. I get that Fuzzy didn't see how the QT played out, but the rest of Wisdom's behavior should be pretty obvious at this point.


This is what was going down when we were nearing deadline and TBG was rivaling Serra:

21 hours left, can we lynch TBG?

Hi Hyperion, the deadline is in a few hours so please vote soon.

Vote TBG then.

TBG is L-1, serra is L-2.

Just in case "hammervote" is not a correct tag, do it with "vote".

This is Wisdom's take on "slips":

Baby Spice is voting him because "scumslips" - bullshit

So Serra doesn't scumslip.
He doesn't scumslip.
BUT MAC SURE AS FUCK DOES.

And now he's trying to downplay me and act like I'm being ridiculous (which I'll admit I kind of lost it for a moment), after his posts regarding Mac:

VOTE: Mac
Here's an idea

Mac, there are things you should be answering btw.

Like why you voted Baby Spice out of nowhere.

Also,

My other scum game

was nightless.

Your other scum game. Which means this is also a scum game. You scumslipped, sir.

Note that the scumslip

wasn't even his original reason for voting Mac. He added it after the fact.

My other scum game means this one is a scum game too. Unless you want to argue I don't understand English, you have no way of escaping this.

Seanald, Mac admitted he's scum already, so except you're also scumclaiming, vote him already.

Nah let the guy scumclaim, it's funny

That's funny.

Now vote Mac.

And even if there wasn't the scumslip, you won't find a more scummy opportunistic vote switch than Mac's on Baby.

(Note: He's not getting the immediate traction he wants for the quicklynch, so he goes back to his first stated reason -- an "opportunistic" vote on someone he himself had posited suspicion of at various points in the game.)

Yeah I figured. Now can you vote Mac?

ARE YOU GUYS INSANE?

MAC SCUMSLIPPED, ANY TALK OF ANY OTHER WAGON IS RIDICULOUS.

VOTE MAC NOW.

The only reason he came back and kept trying to resist the lynch is because Seanald "was not buying" the scumslip. But Mac had already given up. Stop being retarded and vote Mac.

USE ALL CAPS.
CALL PEOPLE RIDICULOUS AND RETARDED.
GET MAD AT GLORK THE NEXT DAY FOR BEING LOUD AND OBNOXIOUS.

Plus, there's more than likely an Odd night JOAT to match.

rofl

LET ME QUOTE THE OBVIOUS BREADCRUMB AND LAUGH AT HIS RIDICULOUSN-- Oh, wait.

Glork explain to me how what Mac said was not a scumslip.

Even if he for some reason decided to word it this way

(There's no way in hell that can happen)

, do you not realise that he ceased trying to defend in 754? He saw there's no way he could find a way out of this and stopped.

Oh, but it can.

Also there's no way there are two JOATs, Mac just came up with that to try and form some kind of defense. I cannot believe there are people who still refuse to vote him, and if you or Seanald are town refusing to vote a CLAIMED SCUM I will lose faith in humanity.

THERE IS NO WAY THERE ARE TWO JOA-- Oh, wait.

Seanald and Glork both look terrible for refusing to lynch confscum.

"confrscum" indeed.

Yeah. So the other two scum are in {Seanald, Glork, Limo}. What amazes me is that one of them is town and is actually being retarded.

LET'S CALL PEOPLE MENTALLY DEFICIENT AGAIN FOR HAVING ~THOUGHTS AND IDEAS~ OF THEIR OWN (which just so happen to be correct).

Are you fucking kidding me? If we don't lynch confscum who do we lynch?

"on that same page" was a day later. After his "fuck all" post and smiley post he stopped posting. Check the hours.

Well not a day, 8 hours later. But still.

Like I said, it's not like people have LIVES (jobs, sleep, out, etc.) that might have them AFK for 8 hours at a time. Yep. Totally the same thing as your senseless hyperbole.

No Glork. 8 hours later there already was someone fighting the scumslip for them (Seanald) so he came back to try once more and save himself. If Seanald had not tried to doubt this was a scumslip Mac wouldn't even have posted again after his surrender.

Obviously he didn't surrender. But at this point he was lynched already, so BALLS TO THE WALL.


All that. And Wisdom, you want to sit here and call

me

ridiculous for going after you hard? I hope you take this game as a very, very valuable lesson, especially if you turn out to be protown. Obviously you have no sense of perspective, if you're going to be able to call the above garbage reasonable, and then turn around and try to OGMUS me and act like I'm ridiculous, for going after your AWFUL voting history and your blatant lynchmongering.

My play hasn't been pristine. I've gone after five or six people at various points, so obviously I've been wrong about *someone* but to sit here and go NUUU GLROK TUNNELING IS SCUMMEH with the above quoted posts is hypocrisy at its absolute finest. When push comes to shove, you've had NOTHING BUT a one-track mind, and you've had your way, and that's resulted in two failed lynches. The reason for Limo "muting" you at the start of the day should be apparent. You literally created reasons to suspect Mac, without even bothering to wait A MERE EIGHT HOURS for a follow-up explanation, and you even accused Seanald of being scum defending him when it was BLOODY FUCKING OBVIOUS why they both supported one another.

I am, in all honesty, trying to fathom how anyone can justify your behavior. It is reprehensable, not only from a gameplay/is-he-town perspective, but from a civility, fairness, hypocrisy/double-standards perspective. If you're scum, I could envision you raising a stink to get TBG lynched at deadline when he didn't claim. (I even explained this -- lynching the unknown/unclaimed guy is better than lynching the Ascetic-who-just-might-be-scum.) I could envision you trying to instill a sense of "aha, he slipped, let's lynch him" even while you acknowledged that Seanald was mislynched in a game for using a wrong tag, which was percieved to be a scumslip.

If you're town, I just dont understand it. I don't get how you can put on these blinders, and the come back today and say my tunneling makes me look scummy. At one point said you felt Seanald was town because his suspicions aligned with yours. You obviously called Seanald, me, and Limo scum for disagreeing about you with Mac. And yet, you have been

categorically wrong about the wagons you have pushed

. Maybe, just maybe... there are protown players who DISAGREE WITH YOU FROM TIME TO TIME.


Fuck. Sorry about that rant. I'm done, I have to make dinner, and I'm going to step away and enjoy the rest of my night.

(Oh, and PEdit, I started this in response to his "should I [proofread]" post. Not even going to bother responding to the last post, it's apparent that Wisdom isn't going to put the effort into justifying his reads at this point, he's just hoping his persistent nonsense can stick one more time.)

[Glork]

Now other than that, you act like I was the only person on the Mac wagon or like I was the only person on the TBG wagon.

That's not true at all. I mentioned both Serra and AJ and quoted both lynch wagons with highlights based on known/likely town (although that was under the assumption that fuzzy was a PGO iirc).

That said, your suspects are Baby Spice and Limo, and you've gone after me a bit. Go back and look at the D1 mislynch. Do you really believe that there were zero scum on it? That they put all their eggs in the Serra basket, when

if he really were an ascetic they could just nightkill him

?

First of all, it's very rare for scum to clump together and wagon as a group on Day1.
Secondly, the logic presented by {Baby, Limo, Glork, Seanald} suggests that TBG was lynched D1 by town exclusively, while the scums really wanted to lynch someone who wasn't a threat to them because they are easily disposed of.

Anyway, the reason I'm focusing on you is because you have been the strongest driving force behind both lynches. You have pushed them the hardest, and lashed out at anyone who doesn't agree with you. You got a quick lunch D2 after I had explicitly said I was going on V/LA and wanted to talk about some things (like the D1 lynchwagon) before the end of the day. Your play has not been collaborative -- it has been selfish, which is often the hallmark of scum pushing an agenda.

Now, I want you to explain why you don't think AJ or Serra are scum.
I want to know specifically why you are so certain of Limo and Baby, and why you've chosen to go after Limo instead of Baby.
I want you to explain why you think that a town-town pair of JoaTs is more likely than a town-scum pair.

[Glork]

You didn't answer why scum would be keen to lynch the claimed Ascetic instead of TBG? Moving wagons at deadline would be a perfectly good excuse to lynch the more-powerful-role, yet Limo, me, and Baby ALL POSTED WITHIN 24 HOURS OF DEADLINE to stick with our votes.

TBG already claimed he had a stronger role than Serra, so scum have no excuse to sit on their Serra voted.

UNLESS... They WERE on TBG, or they were trying to bus Serra for town-cred.

[Glork]

EBWOP: Oh wait, TBG claimed to be more powerful afterwards. Still, my point remains. Sticking on a town Ascetic makes no sense whatsoever. And NOBODY has even bothered to offer an explanation for why Wisdom/Serra/AJ aren't all over their scum lists.

[Glork]

As I said. The TBG lynch was going to happen, regardless of if scum joined the wagon or not. So why wouldn't scum stay on another wagon and avoid the lynching wagon?

That is a blatant lie.

24 hours before deadline, both wagons were at L-3. It wasn't until AFTER those posts that anybody switched over to TBG. And even then, a mere 14 hours before deadline, both wagons were at L-2. PLUS, Hyp had just replaced in and easily could have decided Serra looked scummier, putting him at L-1 and in the lead with mere hours before deadline. To say "the TBG lynch was going to happen regardless" is a

BLATANT, OUTRIGHT

LIE

.


You are literally making this shit up as you go along. And now you just got caught spitting RHETORIC instead of actually making logcial/factual arguments.

Confirm Vote: Wisdom.

[Glork]

Fuzzy, while you're here.

Look at the VC in Post 333.
Look at the vote in Post 337.
Look at Post 338 where Hyp is replacing in and beginning to read.

And tell me if you agree with Wisdom's claim that "TBG lynch was going to happen regardless" of what the scums did at that point?

[Glork]

EBWOP: Sorry, 339 is when Hyp replaces in. Typo.

[Glork]

Because job and in/out all afternoon since then and I haven't had a chance to read and respond to everything at once. So deal with it, and stop deflecting for stupid reasons.

And no, it's not easy to see that TBG would get lynched most likely. Like I said, if Hyp had decided Serra was scum upon replacing in, Serra would have been like 90% likely to get lynched. There is literally no way to argue that TBG was "likely" over Serra considering over half the Serra wagon (Limo, Glork, Baby Spice, TBG) had JUST POSTED WITHOUT SWITCHING TO TBG.

[Glork]

I've done nothing wrong and I have no reason to defend. So why are you asking me to "defend"?

Yeah, you definitely didn't push two mislynches REALLY FUCKING HARD with nothing to show for it.
You certainly didn't just lie about the D1 wagon/deadline situation.
You definitely haven't been hypocritical or guilty of using double standards as they suit your agenda.
And you definitely haven't responded to legitimate questions with answers like "it's just a feeling" (regarding Scum/Town JoaT) or "it's uncommon but I've seen it" (regarding all-town wagon). That's just a shitty way of saying "you have a legitimate point, and I don't have an adequate response because I just got busted, so I'm going to wordvomit my response."


NOPE. NOTHING TO DEFEND AGAINST HERE.

[Glork]

@Glork
If you're not gonna read my posts, tell me so I don't waste time typing them, thanks.

I could really say the same thing about you. You insist that you have neither done anything wrong, and that you have nothing to defend against, when empyrical evidence proves that insistence wrong.

[Glork]

I did push two lynches, one because the deadline was closing in and another because I thought I caught a scumslip.

I did not lie about anything, I went by memory and I remember that TBG was the only one likely to get lynched, especially after serra claimed. Scum would want to stay off that wagon.

The rest is bullshit, I'll respond to posts in any way I want.

And as someone who has played with ascetics countless times, I'm telling you that scum have no interest in lynching a town Ascetic, becuase

THEY CAN JUST NIGHTKILL THEM

. I'm arguing that scum would stay off of the SERRA wagon, and you STILL have not responded to this.

[Glork]

I did push two lynches, one because the deadline was closing in and another because I thought I caught a scumslip.

I did not lie about anything, I went by memory and I remember that TBG was the only one likely to get lynched, especially after serra claimed. Scum would want to stay off that wagon.

The rest is bullshit, I'll respond to posts in any way I want.

And as someone who has played with ascetics countless times, I'm telling you that scum have no interest in lynching a town Ascetic, becuase

THEY CAN JUST NIGHTKILL THEM

. I'm arguing that scum would stay off of the SERRA wagon, and you STILL have not responded to this.

EBWOP: And becuase they're not very useful/powerful, while TBG is unclaimed and therefore likely to be more powerful, esp in a UPick game where there are few (if any) vanilla townies.

[Glork]

Like. I dont' fucking get it. You have repeatedly said that scum want to stay off the TBG wagon, when I've given like five reasons that scum would rather be on TBG and not on Serra.

You have NOT provided a SINGLE reason why scum would REALLY WANT TO BE/STAY ON THE SERRA WAGON.

[Glork]

Scum had no reason to change though.

WHAT THE FUCK I HAVE GIVEN LIKE FIVE REASONS WHY SCUM WOULD WANT TO CHANGE, ARE YOU FUCKING ILLITERATE?

[Glork]

1) Scum want a mislynch over no lynch.
2) Scum are not scared of an Ascetic and have no reasn to try to lynch a claimed Ascetic.
3) Scum knew TBG was protown and the dealdine was coming, and could potentially lynch a very powerful role.
4) Scum rarely put all of their eggs in one basket, especially on Day 1, and having Limo/Glork/Baby all support Serra at the same time is EXTREMELY UNLIKELY.
5) Scum have an easy excuse of "we can't have a No Lynch D1" to jump wagons.


What the fuck. How can you say that they had no reason to change?

[Glork]

Glork, you're giving reasons for why scum would want TBG lynched over serra. And I agree with most of them. But what I am telling you is that scum did not need to vote TBG since town were voting for him anyway and since serra's claim made town change their votes to TBG. So they avoided the wagon and stayed on serra, while still wanting TBG lynched.

Oh my god, it's like talking to a pile of rocks.

Did you not see where I pointed out that 14 hours before deadline, it was deadlocked? THE SCUM COULD NOT HAVE KNOWN THAT TOWN WOULD SWITCH TO TBG FOR THEM. You are trying to use hindsight to prove your point, when that simply does not work. You yourself posted repeatedly to encourage people to jump onto TBG. If you KNEW HE WAS LIKELY GOING TO GET LYNCHED, you wouldn't have felt a need to make six posts telling people to vote TBG.

[Glork]

Nobody can see the future. The scum could not have seen the thread a day before deadline and gone "oh yeah, Wisdom is going to convince everyone to vote TBG, so we don't have to switch to him right now."

That's not.
How.
It.
Fucking.
Works.

[Glork]

Would you like to amend that statement, or am I going to have to quote/link a bunch of posts to prove that you are lying and/or delusional?

[Glork]

Again.

[Glork]

But I'm not scum

I don't have time to make an actual case against anyone else, but I'd urge people to consider Aj's posts against TBG.

I'm Voltorb, Ascetic Townie, so my kill wouldn't be a big loss, but still...

unvote. vote serra

Can't have a no lynch today.

VOTE: TheBrawlGuy
Better than serra.

wtf is wiht all the ascetics, 3rd game ive seen this in recently, META CHANGE watch out.

I also havn't seen Ascetic be a scum role yet, and I don't understand why Serra is an option right now anyway.

ALSO ALSO ALSO

Protown Ascetics are pretty rare. They don't have an active ability so they can't be roleblocked or jailkept, can't be tracked/watched anywhere... literally the only thing is they can't be protected from a nightkill.

Scum ascetics, however... can make untraceable nightkills.
They can make nightkills without fear of being roleblocked.
....but they can still be vigged, which balances them somewhat.


Sooooo yeah. Serra is scum. And fuzzy is still scum. And Seanald is still scum.

Might as well vote serra for town cred.

Sticking with my vote.

Votecount 1.7

fuzzybutternut (1) - Hyperion
TehBrawlGuy (4) - Aj the Epic, serrapaladin, Wisdom, fuzzybutternut (L-3)
Aj the Epic (2) - Seanald, TehBrawlGuy

serrapaladin (4) - Limo, Baby Spice, nopointinactingup, Glork (L-3)

Not voting (2): Guy_Named_Riggs, Lord Mhork

• Hyperion replaces TheOneWhoKnocks.
  
• With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
  
• Deadline is on March 25 at 5:00 PM EST.
  
• Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2013-03-25 17:00:00)

I count.

Four people wanting to lynch Serra despite his claim.
And two supporting Serra.
And the result was THE TWO WAGONS BEING LEVEL.

YEP, HIS CLAIM CLEARLY MADE HIM NOT A LYNCH CANDIDATE.




You're soooooooooo full of shit, Wisdom, I can smell it from here.

[Glork]

Serra's claim was BEFORE both players went to L-2 and Hyp replaced in. You even acknowledged this.

AND YET YOU SAY HIS CLAIM WAS THE REASON TBG WAS DESTINED TO BE LYNCHED.



If you are town and going to try to argue your case against me.
Please, for the love of god.
Go back and read first.
STOP playing from memory. This is the SECOND time your memory has been WAY OFF.
Go back and read the game. Read all of D1, at the very least. You're obviously letting confirmation bias get in the way of FACTS at this point, becuase you just tried to tell me that after Serra's claim he wasn't going to be lynched, and that is also blatantly wrong.

Of course, if you're scum, just keep doing this. You're only digging your own grave.

[Glork]

Massclaim is a good idea.

Also, this:

So, uh.

Seanald. You posted and didn't claim your action last night. Why not?

[Glork]

Hmm, could do. Partial massclaims are pretty anti-town, and we're already halfway through. Opinions?

UNVOTE: Baby
VOTE: Limo

OH MY GOD, KILL IT WITH FIRE. PLEASE.

How much more opportunistic does one's play get?

Vote: Serra

[Glork]

Like, that post literally translates as

"Let me sit on the fence about a potentially game-changing decision, because I am afraid to commit to something that could incriminate me.

Let me jump on yet another convenient bandwagon without providing any insight, analysis, or help to actually finding scum."

[Glork]

UNVOTE: fuzzy

I don't even know what he's doing, but I have the distinct feeling we should leave him alone for now.

Let's try
VOTE: MadHatter

Hey Hatter, what's up with the rolefishing? "Round these parts" means you're not a newb, where are you from and how much have you played?

Speaking of rolefishing, Seanald should stop with that, too.

Mhork is awesome, why does he give you scumvibes, Wisdom?

Jumps MadHatter wagon becuase "rolefishing" while talking about Seanald's rolefishing. Of course, I already covered this post in all its juicy detail.

Depending on reading depends on Serra

Huh? What does this mean?

Glork doesn't need to to be lynched, he just needs to start making sense.

He fabricates this great associative tell between Seanald and me, votes me for it, and switches to Seanald when my wagon stalls. I understand you like your tell, but still: for shame!

Aj, I wouldn't discount Wisdom that easily, but I think you might have a point about TBG.

VOTE: TBG

Discredits Glork, jumps TBG wagon by merely agreeing.
(Sidenote: Also provides support of Wisdom.)

Hi Mac.
^Don't give this guy a newbtown read

Apparently I don't know how to vote.

VOTE: Babyspice

Baby has been backgroundish and opportunistic as fuck.

Why am I scum, Wisdom? You seemed quite adamant about defending me yesterday.

I'm fine not worrying about fuzzy's role, to be honest.

Calls Baby "backgroundish and opportunistic" while beign backgroundish and opportunistic himself. Not one good vote to date, and very little meaty contributions from Serra up to this point.

Plus it's a very good point that in order to use his abilities, the game would have to go to SIX NIGHTS. For a MINI.

Glork agrees with my point, I can die happy now.

VOTE: Mac

although Seanald also looks bad for the opportunistic claim.

WAGONS MAC WHILE CALLING THE OTHER PLAYER BEING WAGONED SCUMMY.
AGAIN cites "opportunistic" play. WHAT? Serra has literally done nothing but FOLLOW OTHER PEOPLE ONTO WAGONS, and he's still talking about OTHER PEOPLE being opportunistic?

Seanald is probably town. Limo and Baby are still scum.

VOTE: Baby

Weird NK is either PR-hunting or because the most universal townreads are actually scum. It's all WIFOMy though, so probably not worth getting hung up over.

More opportunistic play. Crunch time approaches with D3, and suddenly the anti-Seanald sentiment disappears.

Hmm, could do. Partial massclaims are pretty anti-town, and we're already halfway through. Opinions?

UNVOTE: Baby
VOTE: Limo

And lastly, a fence-sit, a bandwagon vote, and zero analysis.



Wow. Stellar shit there. Why the fuck didn't we lynch this D1?

[Glork]

Limo's town. He's the fall guy while egregious scumposters like you, Baby, Serra, and Seanald go unchecked.

[Glork]

Mkay, I'll remember this post when he flips scum.

Sure thing, champ, just so long as you promise to be the first scum lynched if he flips town.


You've said Serra "may" be the third scum with Baby and Limo. How exactly do you feel about both AJ and Serra? What do/don't you like about their play so far? If you had to choose one of those two to die, which would you pick and why?

[Glork]

And no, you claim after fuzzy btw. Then me/Baby, doesn't matter.

Nope.

Wisdom
Baby
AJ
Fuzzy
Limo


It is SUPER INTERESTING that even though you've stated that Baby is "very likely" sum, you want her to claim LAST with you.

[Glork]

Then me/Baby, doesn't matter.

Why are you OK with you claiming after Baby?

Because she is his scumbuddy. Wanna just lunch her first, then him?

[Glork]

Vote: Baby Spice

[Glork]

Site meta demands that I lynch claimed Commuters in sight. Of the last 15 or so commiter claims I've seen, all but one of them were either fake claims, or scum commuters.

I'll dig up examples and shit when I'm not at work, but basically you just claimed scum.

[Glork]

There's really little point in speculating on my role name and ability, considering;
A) Voltorb/Explosion is allegedly an Ascetic;
B) My ability is already proven
C) Whatever I say won't have any effect on the people who haven't claimed

So I'm going to be stubborn and not claim, because people who actually need to claim are being retarded and anti-town, and speculating on possible roles/abilities for my Neighborizer ability is literally a complete waste of time.

[Glork]

Oh hey, I didn't realize Limo was at L-1, with AJ threatening to lynch.

Yeah, Limo, you might as well go ahead and claim and just popcorn to Wisdom next.

[Glork]

You know that's not going to happen.

[Glork]

Geodude, Magnitude.

[Glork]

Kay.

I am Eevee, and if I haven't made it obvious already, I'm an Ability Cop.

My ability that does that is Focus Energy.

Do you find out Pokemon abilities or mafia-game abilities or both?

Also, fuck. No wonder Wisdom wanted everyone to claim their abilities first. Now we have no way of proving or disproving his role.

[Glork]

In fact, that is some bullshit sketchy play.

Vote: Wisdom

[Glork]

Fuzzy and Hyp, don't claim your Pokemon abilities until Wisdom clarifies his role as claims his results.

[Glork]

Magnitude-Neighborizer?

what does Ability Cop do?

Yes. I said D1 that my ability had nothing to do with my role. You'll have to take it up w/the mod in post game.

[Glork]

Really, I'd lynch either of Baby/Wisdom. Commuter with this much soft-information roles screams scum, and my opinion of Wisdom is well documented.

There are 5 claimed/dead info roles. At least one (and probably two) are scum. And a least one of te commuter/ascetic is definitely scum.

From where I'm sitting, it's probably Baby, Wisdom, and either of Serra/Seanald. Thankfully, we have one lych to give, so the game is pretty elementary at this point.

[Glork]

Oh right, I missed that post. Welp.

What are your thoughts at this point, fuzzy?

[Glork]

Seriously Glork? Can't you think of a reason why I wanted to claim after certain people?

Even as scum, what would cause someone to want/need to lie about their Pokemon ability?

The sudden 1-shot-ness claim after my/fuzzy's analysis really sounds like a ploy to make the role sound more believable and protown. If you were really 1-shot, there was no reason to demand my/fuzzy/Hyp's abilities AFTER LIMO HAD ALREADY CLAIMED MEAN LOOK.

Then your target claimed his ability.
Then you claimed WITHOUT THE ONE-SHOT MODIFIER.
Then you demanded ability claims from three OTHER people.
Then fuzzy and I discussed the claims.
Then you were suddenly 1-shot and used it on he guy who fully claimed before you had claimed or demanded abilities from everyone else.

Nope. You're almost certainly lying somewhere in here.

[Glork]

Also, why would I breadcrumb Mean Look when I wanted to catch Limo lying about it?

You could easily have used synonyms in your posts which you could verify later. Words like glare, stare, etc. the point is, if you had breadcrumbed properly, you could have confirmed your ability while testing someone else.

As things stand, your claim looks really convenient, not very believable, and the whole "oh btw I was one shot" is pretty terrible.

[Glork]

Except I didn't care to confirm my ability because I consider myself highly pro-town and not in danger of getting lynched. And the fact you're still trying to tunnel on me after all this proves to me you're scum.

I consider myself I be highly protown, too, but that doesn't mean jack shit to the rest of the town. And evidently you ARE in danger of being lynched, because you're primarily responsible for both mislynches, made a highly questionable claim with no way to back it up, continue to behave irrationally, and find yourself a very likely lynh candidate.

(Edit: and no it's not because we are terrible, it's because your play has been terrible and nonsensical from a protown perspective, and actually pretty consistent with scum.)

[Glork]

Other things that make it weird is
- There's already a watcher (Seanald's 1shot)
- The tracker isn't non consecutive (he gave results from both nights), so why would the watcher be?

at you trying to angle up everything (even acting like Seanald is confirmed town) to direct more suspicion on to me.
Why would I specifically claim non consecutive as scum if I was already aware that AJ wasn't? This isn't even WIFOM as much at it is playing the ridiculousness angle.

This actually

is

WIFOM, and claiming non consecutive was most likely done to seem more pro-town and make it more believable.

....says the guy who randomly tacked on 1-shot after the validity of his claim had been discussed.

[Glork]

You mean like you tried to use my claim and go "OMG THAT ROLE IS USELESS MUST BE FAKE"?

And ISO me, I am not going to do your work for you.

Being asked to sum up a case against someone in a clear and concise manner is NOT unreasonable, and your refusal to do so is extremely anti-town.

[Glork]

Huh...

So one of Glork/Aj, one of Limo/Seanald and Baby or maybe Wisdom...

This claiming thing is really not helping Wisdom, although I would have read him as town for the rest of his play.

Holy shit, just bus Wisdom already so you can give yourself a chance of winning. He has already balked at actually making any points against you, and now you want to pair off townies and not-quite-include-him.

[Glork]

Your tunneling is in no way a town tunnel, keep at it and get instaropped after I flip town

Dude I was voting Baby Spice earlier in the day and AFTER th claim said I'd lynch her. I'm not fucking tunneling, so STOP misrepresenting me. It is not belong your cause. You are just spitting venom to try to save yourself and I'm going to keep calling out your lies and bullshit.

[Glork]

EBWOP: Not helping your cause. Phone autocorrect. -_-

[Glork]

It makes perfect sense. I've already laid out why. Stop embarrassing yourself, you got caught changing your claim and trying to weasel your way through the mass claim by going last so you couldn't be busted. At this point, you're just damaging your team's chances of winning because once you flip, both Limo and I will be practically confirmed town, and all eyes will turn towards Baby, Serra, and Seanald.



Edit: Search tells you this? Prove it. Don't just make claims without backing them up. I just did a site search that suggests that 1-shots are about 50/50 in terms of alignments so I publicly dispute this assertion.

[Glork]

Where did he change his claim, Glork?

Just when he added 1-shot after the fact. I'm not really seeing how someone could forget to include that in their claim.

[Glork]

1-SHOT NEIGHBORIZER ROLES:
mafia
town
town
town
1 town, 1 mafia (note: reference to other games)
town
mafia

This was done using a simple search on the terms "1-shot" and "neighborzier" in the site search, and looking at each post going backwards seven pages.


Yep. Definitely "almost always" scum.

[Glork]

Another town neighborizer on Page 11 of the site search.

I could really do this all night, except I'm going to spend some time with the girlfriend. I think I've made my point clear. Wisdom is a lying sack of shit and needs to die.

[Glork]

okay last one. Any questions, fuzzy?

[Glork]

Kay, looks like I was searching for "1-shot neighbourizer", which didn't include "neighborizers" spelled with "o" so I missed those games. I had only found two and in both they were scum.
So okay, discard that point but Glork is still scum, I am not going to accept that is a town tunnel.

Well you should start by not accepting that it's a tunnel at all, unless your definition of "tunneling" is nonsensical.

[Glork]

UNVOTE: fuzzy

I don't even know what he's doing, but I have the distinct feeling we should leave him alone for now.

Let's try
VOTE: MadHatter

Hey Hatter, what's up with the rolefishing? "Round these parts" means you're not a newb, where are you from and how much have you played?

Speaking of rolefishing, Seanald should stop with that, too.

Mhork is awesome, why does he give you scumvibes, Wisdom?

Jumps MadHatter wagon becuase "rolefishing" while talking about Seanald's rolefishing. Of course, I already covered this post in all its juicy detail.

Depending on reading depends on Serra

Huh? What does this mean?

Glork doesn't need to to be lynched, he just needs to start making sense.

He fabricates this great associative tell between Seanald and me, votes me for it, and switches to Seanald when my wagon stalls. I understand you like your tell, but still: for shame!

Aj, I wouldn't discount Wisdom that easily, but I think you might have a point about TBG.

VOTE: TBG

Discredits Glork, jumps TBG wagon by merely agreeing.
(Sidenote: Also provides support of Wisdom.)

Hi Mac.
^Don't give this guy a newbtown read

Apparently I don't know how to vote.

VOTE: Babyspice

Baby has been backgroundish and opportunistic as fuck.

Why am I scum, Wisdom? You seemed quite adamant about defending me yesterday.

I'm fine not worrying about fuzzy's role, to be honest.

Calls Baby "backgroundish and opportunistic" while beign backgroundish and opportunistic himself. Not one good vote to date, and very little meaty contributions from Serra up to this point.

Plus it's a very good point that in order to use his abilities, the game would have to go to SIX NIGHTS. For a MINI.

Glork agrees with my point, I can die happy now.

VOTE: Mac

although Seanald also looks bad for the opportunistic claim.

WAGONS MAC WHILE CALLING THE OTHER PLAYER BEING WAGONED SCUMMY.
AGAIN cites "opportunistic" play. WHAT? Serra has literally done nothing but FOLLOW OTHER PEOPLE ONTO WAGONS, and he's still talking about OTHER PEOPLE being opportunistic?

Seanald is probably town. Limo and Baby are still scum.

VOTE: Baby

Weird NK is either PR-hunting or because the most universal townreads are actually scum. It's all WIFOMy though, so probably not worth getting hung up over.

More opportunistic play. Crunch time approaches with D3, and suddenly the anti-Seanald sentiment disappears.

Hmm, could do. Partial massclaims are pretty anti-town, and we're already halfway through. Opinions?

UNVOTE: Baby
VOTE: Limo

And lastly, a fence-sit, a bandwagon vote, and zero analysis.



Wow. Stellar shit there. Why the fuck didn't we lynch this D1?

Vote: Baby Spice

Yep. Definitely tunneling on you, and not considering/attacking any other scums.

[Glork]

Hmm, could do. Partial massclaims are pretty anti-town, and we're already halfway through. Opinions?

UNVOTE: Baby
VOTE: Limo

OH MY GOD, KILL IT WITH FIRE. PLEASE.

How much more opportunistic does one's play get?

Vote: Serra

Hey look, more tunneling on Wisdom.

[Glork]

It does not matter who you attacked, you kept claiming I am scum since before Mac even flipped.

But since you mentioned this, it was awesome how you avoided attacking the most obvious scum, Limo, in favor of attacking everyone else.

Or like how you've avoided attacking Baby or Serra at all costs?

The reason it LOOKS like I'm attacking you more is because you insist on trying to have the last word, so you keep posting way more than anyone else. If Baby or Serra publicly objected to every single word I uttered, I'd have more :words: posted against them, too.

[Glork]

Wisdom, what is your opinion of Baby Spice?

[Glork]

Kind of on V/LA this weekend.



I REALLY don't like how Serra switched gears to Seanald just as Limo went to BS, and I asked Wisdom about BS.

I also don't like how he's nudging us towards Hyperion under the assumption that Seanald will flip scum. It sounds like one of those "bus my buddy to set up a mislynch tomorrow" plays.

Idk. I still think our scum are in {Baby Spice, Wisdom, Serra, Seanald} so in general I like where his conversation is going (off of Limo and on towards probable scums).

[Glork]

I think it makes a bit more sense for a bad claim to come from town than from scum.

Regardless, I think that if Seanald is scum, nabbing him today is important so that he can't get to any if his other abilities in N4. Not sure on VC and on phone, but willing to lynch.

[Glork]

Vote: Seanald

[Glork]

That's why i didn't want to be the hammer, but tbh I doubt he'll tell the truth anyway.

[Glork]

We'll see. Baby has been sketchy as fuck, but I'm not convinced on Marangal. I really want you to take a closer look at Serra, especially considering how well a protown Ascetic would fit into a setup with like a thousand information roles. And his voting history is bloody awful and his interactions with Seanald have been weird.

I've even considered the possibility of Serra fake-claiming just so he wouldn't be an investigation target, but that might just be the confirmation bias talking. Ascetic would be a super ballsy fake claim to make D1 under pressure.

[Glork]

Serra actually makes a pretty good point regarding Marangal.

I was all set to quicklynch Baby, but no death means either she's legit and scum tried to shoot her (for some reason?), or they chose not to kill at all (for some reason?).

Either way, the lack of a death makes little sense.

[Glork]

Also, why are you leaning town on Spice?

Trying to kill a commuter would explain the failed kill. I think Baby is an awful, terrible choice for a night kill, but from the claimed roles, that or a strategic no-kill are the only things that make sense.

I suppose this implicates our investigative roles and Serra. Serra can't be tracked or watched, and if one/two of {Wisdom, Limo, Marangal} is scum, then killing off the other power roles is self-implicating.

[Glork]

Serra actually makes a pretty good point regarding Marangal.

I hate that you sound surprised <3

Except I still think I want you dead over anyone else.

[Glork]

In that case, why give the town a free lynch? Even if it fools is temporarily, we get an extra chance to figure Baby out.

Whatever. Free lynch means Baby gets to be our guinea pig.

Vote: Baby Spice

[Glork]

I'd lynch Serra or Baby, I really don't care. With the no kill I'm like 90% positive we have this wrapped up.

[Glork]

G;lork, do you consider Marangal as potential scum?

Yeah I think Wisdom convinced me that it's a very real possibility. I basically told him I thought it was among him/Baby/Serra, but the idea of Hyp claiming to "clear" Seanald, along with Marangal's bizarre play puts her on my list of potential scums.

Idk. I still think that Hyp claiming as scum is infinitely more senseless than him claiming as town.

Anyone else would really surprise me at this point.


I want Marangal to explain specifically why she did not target Limo. Or Wisdom, for that matter.

[Glork]

I'm so confused.

[Glork]

kay, that's even better, vote stays

No, that's not better.

Unvote

[Glork]

Falling on one's sword doesn't strike me as a valid strategy for BabyScum to try to win the game, and the WIFOM game is certainly

NOT

worth the cost of giving up a night kill and making a nonsensical claim that is, at best, a one-day stall.

[Glork]

In my estimation, there are three likely scenarios here.

The first invovles the scum trying to kill, and hitting a Mafia Traitor instead -- which typically results in recruiting the Traitor to the group full time, rather than killing.

The second involves Baby being scum and trying to get thrown under the bus so unbelievably hard that her buddy will be considered "confirmed town" for the remainder of the game.

The third involves scum intentionally no-killing in an effort to frame Baby, under the belief or assumption that she is out of commuter shots (or that she simply chose not to use one).


There are implications to each of these scenarios, and I'm about 80% certain that the first scenario is most likely, which makes me not want to lynch Baby so much.

[Glork]

I want Limo to claim all of his results to date.

[Glork]

I haven't had time to go traitor hunting, I only got the idea because I mentioned mafia traitors outside the context of this thread and had a eureka moment.

But I wanted your results for completeness and to help assess the possibility of you yourself being a traitor.

[Glork]

Either scum(that don't include Baby) wanted to implicate Baby further (which I don't see as likely given the fact she was already the most likely lynch today so they didn't have to no-kill for that), or scum (who include Baby) wanted to try and clear Baby in hopes that we will buy she was shot and commuted, which didn't work so Baby claimed she didn't commute to confuse us further.
Obvious which of the two I think it is.

lol


Good ol' Wisdom.

[Glork]

No it's more the laughing at your inability to consider ideas which you yourself did not promote. It's the exact same thing that led you to shove a Mac lynch down our throats, and the automatic downplaying of the possiblity of a Traitor is super sketchy.

[Glork]

Oh look, another hammer while I wasn't around for the weekend. At least this one will probably result in a scumlynch, one way or another.

[Glork]

Ok, so I would expect 2+traitor. I still haven't had a chance to dig around for traitor clues, but I would assume that by about N2 or so, that the scums would have realized they had a Traitor (lack of multi-kills plus the mirror role flipping town, not other-scum). That might explain the nopointinactingup kill.

[Glork]

Well that makes things easy. So it's one of {BS, Serra} and one of {Limo, Wisdom}.

I still think that Traitor is a far more likely explanation than "Baby Scum decided to no kill and then claim not-commute because WIFOM MAGIC," but whatever. Somebody is going to have to actually give me a reasoned out, logical explanation, because I'm not going to accept WIFOM as a main argument in LyLo.

I also want to know why Traitor is considers far-fetched. It's a normal role, and not particularly uncommon in my experience.

That said, there's a pretty good chance Baby is scum if there *is* a traitor, so there's that.

[Glork]

The wiki is outdated in terms of both information and terminology. Traitors are explicitly listed as normal per the Normal Game guidelines. As far as how commonplace they are in terms if current meta, so I might be off there.

Either way, I see myself voting Baby Spice, although I'm 90% certain the other scum was on Marangal. I'm going to do a bunch of vote/behavior analysis later on when I get some time.

[Glork]

With a probably-protown claimed vengeful townie?

No?

[Glork]

Traitor doesn't really fit with a move either.

Yeah, because Explosion and Magnitude are moves that totally fit for their roles.

If we NL today, can't the scum just kill Fuzzy tonight and force him to hit-scum-or-lose? Or is he only Vengeful on being lynched? That's kind of a critical point to determining what our strategy is today.

[Glork]

Aren't Vengeful the ones that only work when lynched?

I'm really worried that Glork is actually scum. I think the No Kill makes perfect sense if he is, as he was the most obvious NK target N3. I think he's trying to draw attention away from that fact with his musings about a potential traitor, for which there is no in-game evidence. With Aj's Messenger role flipping town, it would make sense for the other communication role to be scum.

It's interesting that on D1 he was incredibly vocal about his alleged associative tell that proved Seanald and I are scum together. Now that Seanald has actually flipped scum, he doesn't really seem interest in following that line of argument anymore. If he were town and genuinely believed in his D1 case, Seanald's flip should have brought him right back to it, but instead he still wants to lynch Baby. Glork's switch to Baby wasn't particularly well justified, and I still think she's scum, so I could see Glork bussing her, if he believes to be able to survive in MyLo with for example Wisdom, Limo and me. Baby's role is sort of the counterpart to mine, so it'd make sense to her being scum, too.

I've never willingly forgeone a nightkill in my life as scum. Ever. I'm like the poster boy of thinking that's a terrible strategy, so even if I'm wrong, the idea that scum chose not to kill practically exonerates me. I'm very much a numbers person, as anyone who's played with me can tell. And the idea that I'd set myself back in favor of a WIFOM argument suggests that I would sacrifice a more probable victory in order to put my hopes on predicting the reactions of other people is one which I absolutely abhor.

You sit here and want to arguing that the "messager" roles have to be town-scum, but what about the information roles? We have:
Mac, a Town Odd-Night JOAT who claimed information before he died.
nopointinactingup, a Town Self-Voyeur
Marangal, a Town Tracker

And TWO MORE CLAIMED INFORMATION ROLES.

Why would I, as scum, choose to kill AJ and

directly implicate myself as a result

when there are more attractive targets? We can basically pair off Baby/Serra, Glork/AJ, and Wisdom/Limo, and then there's Fuzzy. Well, scum chose to kill AJ which made me look bad. But not all three pairings can be town-scum, so at least one of them has to be wrong. You're going to sit here and play Outguess the Mod, but conveniently ignore the fact that there are 3 dead town information roles and 2 more living claimed ones? Seriously?


Literally every argument you're trying to make to paint me as scum relies on "Glork is choosing to make several bad decisions, all for the sake of WIFOM."
-- Why would I no-kill N3?
-- Why would I keep arguing for a traitor when it has no traction with the rest of the players and is only making me look worse?
-- Why would I kill AJ last night instead of Wisdom or Limo or Baby or you or Fuzzy?

The simple answer is:

I wouldn't

. My history as scum is 100% self-reliant. Look at Space Monkey Mafia. Look at California Trilogy: Dantes in Fresno. Look at any game where I've found success as scum. In those games I strategize meticulously, but NEVER does it rely on other people believing WIFOM arguments. I don't have control over WIFOM. I hate it. I firmly believe that I'd give myself a better chance of winning by just outplaying people.

No. It's more likely that, like I said, one of {Baby, Serra} and one of {Limo, Wisdom} is scum, BECAUSE of the AJ kill. They couldnt make a kill that would implicate themselves, but they COULD make a kill that would off a role NOBODY thought was scum, and put pressure on a player who had been suspected to varying degrees over the course of the game. If Baby is scum and kills you (or vice versa), wouldn't it be practically suicide? If Wisdom kills Limo (or vice versa), wouldn't it practically be suicide?

[Glork]

But why not Fuzzy, then?

[Glork]

Like, I'm willing to accept that in a vacuum, the choice of AJ vs Fuzzy is pretty much null. But when I take into account the earlier setup speculation, I'd probably want to keep AJ alive and try to paint him as an under-the-radar scum in endgame. I'm fairly certain I would have killed Fuzzy last night and not given the town an option to make a power play involving Fuzzy.

A 6p MyLo of Glork/AJ, Serra/Baby, and Wisdom/Limo would have required a no-lynch and created an intense, chaotic endgame -- which would have suited GlorkScum just fine.

[Glork]

Nope. The optimal play is still to kill. I'd have to kill power because they can catch scum or potentially clear town.

NOBODY suspected Hyperion at that point either. But Hyp was a claimed info role, and a very real threat to the scums. Nobody would have even blinked if Hyp had died at that point. Still no reason to skip a kill there.

[Glork]

You're right, my bad. I was thinking the no kill was N2, not N3.

[Glork]

MBF! <3

Are you scum?

[Glork]

I'm pretty apprehensive about lynching fuzzy.

I currently think it's Wisdom + one of BS/Serra, and I'm *really* going back and forth on which one I think it is. I was all set to just lynch Baby starting today, but Serra seems to be going out of his way to protect Wisdom and try to get momentum going against me. So yeah, there's a bit of OMGUS here, but Serra has been just kind of going with the flow of mostly bad lynches, and hasn't made an effort to stand out until the anti-Limo push died out and someone had to make BIG PLAYS. I think once Wisdom flipped his stance on Limo, Serra had to follow suit, and the opportunity to bus Seanald presented itself.

[Glork]

But on the other hand, Commuters are so often scum these days, and Baby just kind of IGNORED the whole Seanald situation, which might be even worse than turning on a dime to throw him under.

Baby, have you used a commute at all in this game? IIRC you've claimed you didn't on N3/N4, but what about the first two nights?

[Glork]

Some vote analysis...

Seanald jumped on the HadMatter (AJ) wagon instead of Serra when both wagons were viable D1.
Right near the end of D1 (last 48 hours), Seanald stated he had a town read on Serra, but failed to produce a vote on TBG either. The preceeding four wagon vote son TBG at that time were Wisdom, Fuzzy,

Mhork

,

Hyperion(Marangal)

.
Baby Spice remained on serrapaladin throughout most of D1.

Coming out of D2, a Seanald wagon sprang up consisting of Limo(MBF), Wisdom, Fuzzy, Glork.
Meanwhile, Baby went back to Serra.
Post 580 is noteworthy because Seanald became the 4th on Baby, as part of a big shift in momentum. This followed votes from Serra and Wisdom.
Then the whole Mac thing went down, and Fuzzy, Baby, Serra, and Limo(MBF) all followed Wisdom off of the "slip" that never was.

D3...
Wow, more bloc voting. Again, {Wisdom, Seanald, Serra, Baby} are all on the same person. This time it's Limo(MBF).
Serra/Fuzzy/Wisdom all bloc switch to Seanald. Limo is ultimately a part of the lynch wagon, too.


Unfortunately, there's not a lot we can get out of this, except that there's probably scum among the frequent followers. Fuzzy is a little more implicated here -- he literally hasn't risked his neck for anything all game. He's just followed people from mislynch to mislynch, with the Seanald lynch sandwiched inbetween.

D3 was probably the perfect opportunity to bus, but the fact that so many of the SAME people were on the D1/D2/D4 mislynches tells me that both scum are definitely among {Wisdom, Fuzzy, Baby, Serra}.

Wisdom also did the whole "I can't confirm myself" thing with his claim, insisting that other people get their Pokemon and abilities out there BEFORE he gave any info of his own. I could see him being a Mafia Rolecop mixed in with the town power roles of {Marangal, Mac, nopoint, and Limo/MBF}. 4 limited town power and 2 limited scum power (assuming Seanald did have info as part of his JoaT) sounds balanced. 5/1 does NOT sound balanced at all.

[Glork]

Wisdom, what is your opinion of Limo/MBF?

[Glork]

I'm pretty apprehensive about lynching fuzzy

What do you propose instead? Forfeit lynch today and roll with better odds tomorrow, or take our chances with a lynch today?

I think I want to No-Lynch. If fuzzy is town, the scum probably *have* to kill him, because they can't risk getting vengekilled tomorrow, and it takes out a potential suspect for some people.

If they don't kill Fuzzy, we play the odds and lynch him tomorrow.

[Glork]

Oh, right, math.

[Glork]

Can somebody please run by me what exactly makes Wisdom protown?

The best I'm getting is that his stance on Seanald seemed genuine on D3, but that's really not doing much for me.

[Glork]

Wow, I actually agree with Wisdom on something. <.<

Are we sure we want to potentially put the game in this guy's hands?

I'd be fine with him shooting Baby of he were to flip town, but he's basically telling us he's a loose cannon, and that this groupthink attempt to direct this kill isn't going to be fruitful.

[Glork]

Lynching Fuzzy is still the best course of action.

Can somebody please run by me what exactly makes Wisdom protown?

The best I'm getting is that his stance on Seanald seemed genuine on D3, but that's really not doing much for me.

Pretty much. His stance on Seanald seemed genuine, and like how he tried to keep the Seanold wagon on track when Hyperion was making it easy to divert it and Fuzzy was following suit.

Assuming Fuzzy-town, I believe that Serra and Spice are the obvious scumteam. The only reason I have doubts is because you and Wisdom seem really good.

If that's the case, how did "Glork isn't scum unless this is some god-tier scum play" argument fall away? It's pretty widely known that I'm a very average / mediocre scum player. I'm one of the best mafia catchers ever, but my scum play is pretty terrible. I'm flattered to believe that you think I'm capable of the types of gambits like "urging Fuzzy to vig Seanald" D1 to forefeit the opportunity to lead a wagon on him, but my brain hasn't ever really worked that way... or choosing to no kill despite the fact that I've stated before that no-killing is a terrible play like 99% of the time? It flies against 8 years of GlorkMeta.

The "case" against me amounts to "Glork might be super crazy awesome playing-out-of-his-mind scum this game, and OMG LOTS OF WIFOM DECISIONS," which has literally not ever once factored into my play as scum that I can ever recall.


I'm like seriously freaking the fuck out that Fuzzy might shoot me if we lynch him and we'll just plain lose. If he's town, Baby is really the only option for him to shoot.

I'd rather just lynch Baby at this point and take our chances. I don't think there's anyone who thinks she has even a halfway-decent-chance of being town.

[Glork]

Fair enough; so you're thinking that there are too many investigative roles and Limo's claim is fake because of that?

I've been saying that literally all day.

Wisdom, what do YOU think of the idea that there are FIVE (nopoint, mac, marangal, you, MBF) protown investigative roles of the game? The ONLY way I could see this being possible would be if both Baby and Serra are scum with the actual roles they've claimed, but their interactions have not indicated that such is the case.


PEdit: Go back and read and answer that for yourself, Wisdom.

[Glork]

EBWOP: I meant to just quote the first part of the post. There are too many investigative roles.

Anyway, I still think it's Wisdom + One-of-Baby-Serra-But-Probably-Baby.

[Glork]

Yeah, see my EBWOP: I'm distracted and just quoted your post after reading the first phrase.

[Glork]

Glork, Wisdom is scum. With all the damn "investigative roles" we have, we ought to get something done through the night.

What do you think his specific role is?

[Glork]

If fuzzy is this indecisive (or even if he just appears to be), I refuse to lynch him.

I asked this a page or two ago, but why aren't we just lynching Baby? Nobody has given me an answer, and everyone has her at or near the top of their lists.

[Glork]

I still don't think he's actually going to shoot Wisdom, but I'm hoping he picks Baby over me and actually gives us a chance to win in endgame.

And ftr, I think there's a pretty small chance Fuzzy is scum, this whole sudden-switch-to-Wisdom thing was just a gambit, and I suspect that Wisdom saw right through it, too, hence the relatively cavalier attitude towards lynching Fuzzy anyway. I think that if Wisdom actually feared being vengekilled, he would be making a strong case against Baby (and/or me/Serra?) right now.

But since we're not going to lynch Baby after all, I'll hammer whenever.

[Glork]

Probably won't be on until tomorrow. That gives roughly 18-24 hours for additional thoughts before this happens.

[Glork]

Doesn't look like there's much left to say at this point.

Vote: Fuzzy

[Glork]

Baby, for sure.

[Glork]

Also, idk how this works with the mod coming in and doing a lynch scene, but not shooting is not an option. Is there a way you can do like a provisional shot in case Oversoul comes in to do the lynch scene before you've fully made up your mind?

[Glork]

Vote: Serrapaladin

Gee Gee.

[Glork]

For the record, we didn't choose to no-kill. We apparently missed the deadline for night actions by like 2 hours. But I maintain that a Mafia Traitor being recruited would have been the most likely explanation for a missing kill there. Intentional no-kills are ONLY a good idea when it's necessary to avoid an incriminating Track/Watch/similar result, and with a Mafia Ninja, we didn't need to worry about that.

[Glork]

Wisdom...

I did think Glork was scum. No one seemed to realise that Glork criticised Wisdom for ignoring my "obvious" breadcrumb yet did the same himself.

That's not true. I didn't go crazyoutofmyway to defend you, because I felt that doing so would have set off red flags. IIRC, I quoted Wisdom scoffing at your breadcrumb and posted "lol"...

I actually spent most of the game just disagreeing with Wisdom and calling him scum. Sometime during D1, I realized that he's got that "I'm going to argue super hard for what I want and get the last word on everything" approach. So when I realized how flatly wrong all of his suspicions were, I just started arguing with him an let his personality / confirmation bias do all of the work.

I got legit scared we'd lose when he had his Limo revelation, and had to bus Seanald a day before I wanted to... And then the no-kill happened and I was pretty convinced it was a lost cause.

But then Maragal went down, and the "have fuzzy venge-kill someone" strategy popped up, and that took care of my "too many info roles and not enough nightkills" problem.


It was pretty well played by the town, I think. A lot of people were on the right track, and I think three of them brought up Glork/Baby at some point on D4. It's just, nobody quite put it all together.

[Glork]

My only consolation is that I never fully trusted you. Tell me, when you were telling Fuzzy to 'vig' Seanald Day 1... you suspected that he wasn't a vigilante, didn't you?

I never mentioned in the Mafia QT, I think, but I suspected he was either a bomb/vengeful, or a PGO hoping to draw a scum action.

[Glork]

Claiming to be one-shot was a strategic move. I had planned on neighborizing Baby Spice later on so we could "day talk," but got too worried I'd be tracked or something. But I wanted the role to appear weaker and it with the "night action restrictions" thing like our JoaTs, RB, and the dead bodyguard (which is technically only successfully used once).

I didn't talk to Wisdom after D2/N3 because that's consistent with how GlorkTown would treat a neighborhood with someone he heavily suspected. Giving someone the opportunity to manipulate me in a private setting isn't something I want to do.

[Glork]

Well to be fair, we didn't really care, what with a Ninja making all our kills, and nobody being cleared due to the "action+kill" rule.