Mini 1443: Pokemon Nuzlocke Mafia: Abandoned

[serrapaladin]

This looks epic.
VOTE: fuzzy

[serrapaladin]

I think YOLO

wants to be the very best

.

[serrapaladin]

^damn combobreaker

TO TRAIN THEM IS MY CAAAAUUSE!!!

[serrapaladin]

Well that was a mildly disappointing few pages. Unfortunately site meta allows hydras not to sign their posts. I agree with the notion that non-signing helps a scum-hydra more than a town-hydra, but it's their prerogative whether to sign or not, and we're not lynching

Ms Marple

minimal over that (unless we want to policy-lynch that slot, which is a good idea). However, I also don't think people wanting to get the hydra to sign is particularly scummy. I'm not sure what to think of Jason getting hung up on that.

Hi ETL, you're town again, aren't you?

Squidward's simultaneous vote of Syr, while agreeing with one of his only points is not cool.

Not really liking PimHel. His attack on Wisdom is bullshit. Also the misreps of Syr.

Desperado, please use quote tags so we know who you're quoting without having to go check. Some of your posts are mildly difficult to follow, as is.

So, to further my statement, imo not signing posts as a hydra is a scum tell,

regardless of what I said earlier.

[sarcasm]Yeah, all these hydras being unaccountable for what they've said earlier is horrible, isn't it.[/sarcasm]

Marangal, have you been in several games with Mhork?

[serrapaladin]

Again? But I'm never scum. Also, that question was mostly rhetorical.

I'm not sure what to think of Jason getting hung up on that.

Yeah cause getting hung up on the fact that everyone is making a massive deal over something that has no REAL in game relevance and trying to diffuse bad conversations is so fucking hard to read.

(unless we want to policy-lynch that slot, which is a good idea)

Where in the fucking world did you learn to policy lynch?

But that's just the thing, Jason, it's a very easy thing to get hung up on as either alignment.

The policy lynch thing was a joke. I hate policy lynches (but if I did policy lynch, Marangal is scarily manipulative as scum).

Desp is fine. The YOLO vote was wrong, but I don't see malintent. The interaction with Minimal is unnecessary. The comments @ Squidward and Syr are towny.

[serrapaladin]

I don't like the read of this. It's looks like weak semi-support of a mildly popular wagon while providing an out.

Serra, who are your top scum reads?

Which wagon would that be? I don't support the Minimal wagon at all. The policy lynch thing was a joke directed at Marangal. A quick readthrough had PimHel, Squidward and fuzzy stick out negatively, although I can sort of see where people are coming from with Sala.

[serrapaladin]

Squidward's posts are pretty bad. Squid, how is Syr different to the other people pushing minimal (particularly fuzzy - seriously, fuzzy is so much more scummy than Syr)? Why would pondscum bus so hard early D1? Are all IC's scum? Worst thing is he's probably town, just wrong.

Have I mentioned ETL is town? Desperado's case is bad.

I'm not here to ease anyone's concerns about anything, I'm here to play and so is Messiah. if you can't figure out who is saying what, then tough luck because, apparently other people can. I'm not here to make thing easier for everyone, in fact making scum uncomfortable is how scum get caught. Tell me, how comfortable are you feeling right now Desperado?

Fuck this nonsense. Its not fair and its not right.

Please replace me.

Look at all the newb-town she's bleeding.

[serrapaladin]

I'm not asking if you would, I'm asking if you think pondscum would. I meant IC's from Newbie games, because you're implying that trying to give town theoretical advice is a scumtell.

Are you an alt on from someone on here?

[serrapaladin]

Fair. Well regardless, I wouldn't peg Syr as the sort of player to bus hard early as scum.

As to Sala, it was his first post, so basically still RVS, and I took it as a friendly pointer given all the recent join-dates. I think that'd make sense as either alignment.

[serrapaladin]

Mini, have you read Open 481 (the one modded by Mhork)? I don't think Syr's post towards Sala fit how he treated Jiffy and Jacob D1 of that game. I really really really don't see Syr/Sala.

@Mhork:

Squidward's simultaneous vote of Syr, while agreeing with one of his only points is not cool.

Not really liking PimHel. His attack on Wisdom is bullshit. Also the misreps of Syr.

As to fuzzy: I don't like his continued insistence that non-signing is a scumtell. Lots of fluff, with no actual reads, except a bad one on Minimal.

I'm concerned that Mhork likes Desperado's "case", which is basically just rephrasing all of ETL's posts in a bad light. Seriously Mhork?

[serrapaladin]

What is interesting, Mhork?

I don't see any forced town tells by ETL. It is a fact that hydras have a QT, while town doesn't. How do you state that without someone twisting it to looked like a forced town tell? The Team Rocket thing was obviously a joke, and interpreting it as anything different is opportunistic. Admitting that she doesn't have strong reads yet, and that so far her reads have been off also isn't inherently scummy, but Desperado makes it look so.

Mara

Mini, of course scum play develops, but whether or not you start bussing your scumbuddy when neither of you are under any pressure is more of a personality-based factor. Mara, after reading some of your scum-QT's, you should take it as a compliment <3

[serrapaladin]

You know what? I could kill you all! My starter is the best starter in the game! Once I assemble my team, you will all bow to my power!

(And if I get a Salamence, you will all be begging for mercy!)

I just wrote Salamence instead of Salamanca (the Spanish town) in an official document. I hope you're happy.

[serrapaladin]

Your reasons...

[serrapaladin]

I just don't know how to explain why I find you scummy.
Gut maybe?

And you wonder why I dislike your reasons...

[serrapaladin]

Hey Syr, I don't like PimHel either. We can be friends!

If I wasn't voting fuzzy, it'd be PimHel.

Desperado: why would scum rapid-fire fake townslips?

YOLO: VI's don't live to LyLo unconfirmed if town is somewhat on the ball. How come you think Sala is a VI?

[serrapaladin]

I'd rather you didn't, YOLO. His case isn't very good.

[serrapaladin]

Spoiler:

....................../´¯/)
....................,/¯../
.................../..../
............./´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸
........../'/.../..../......./¨¯\
........('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...')
.........\.................'...../
..........''...\.......... _.·´
............\..............(
..............\.............\...

[serrapaladin]

<3

[serrapaladin]

What exactly do you think disagrees with his town-meta?

[serrapaladin]

Ooh, logic!

[serrapaladin]

I didn't realize I was required to maintain a constant attitude.

Desperado is scum for a shitty, WIFOMy case; what's difficult to understand about that? ("That player looks town so they must be scum" is the worst argument I have ever heard.)

My vote stays.

While I don't agree with Desperado's case, this is quite the misrep.

[serrapaladin]

So I think Mhork might be scum.

[serrapaladin]

Hi kuro. It's fine, you're probably not scum. Syr might be scum, but I doubt it. PimHel is misreading newb as scum, methinks.

Squidward is better for 337.

I don't like the reactions to kuro's entrance by Desp and Mhork.

[serrapaladin]

Actually, I think I'll
UNVOTE: fuzzy
VOTE: Mhork

Bad agreeing with Desp on ETL while voting Sala. Bad unvote of Sala. Bad welcoming of kuro. Bad consistency between most recent posts.

This whiny sass kinda feels townish, though. Not sure if force

fry.jpeg

I'm prolly gonna vote Liarman's replacement as soon as he shows up. That's cool, right?

Kuro, you're in a very scummy pinch right now. What are your reads?

Particularly 345 rubs me the wrong way. Notice how it's not "I think you're scummy".

[serrapaladin]

Mhork votes would be appreciated.

[serrapaladin]

Something about you, fuzzy

[serrapaladin]

Where are you on this, Wisdom?

[serrapaladin]

Meh, this is standard town paranoia about quick wagons. Wagon speed doesn't actually correlate with alignment though, so Mhork votes are still a good idea.

Mini disregarding kuro's case is pretty odd.

[serrapaladin]

First one that comes to mind is this one, Wisdom.

I'm sure I could find others, but wagon speed shouldn't be used as an argument.

[serrapaladin]

0 to L-1 in 19 posts on Carey-scum.

[serrapaladin]

and Serra, you think everything I do is odd, there is nothing new there

Then start being readable, god-dammit!

[serrapaladin]

Mhork was an "eh, why not" vote. Figured we'd get more answers that way.

If I didn't like the Mhork wagon so much this would get you a vote...

[serrapaladin]

Activity overview looks pretty dire. If you guys aren't going to post content, this game could use some (Mhork) votes.

[serrapaladin]

I don't get the Mhork wagon myself.

Serra do you want my vote there? then address this

How do I address naysaying?

[serrapaladin]

In post 421, serrapaladin wrote:
Meh, this is standard town paranoia about quick wagons. Wagon speed doesn't actually correlate with alignment though, so Mhork votes are still a good idea.

Mini disregarding kuro's case is pretty odd.

-1

Quicklynches are stupid, Serra. Really stupid. Also really antitown.
inb4 controversy

I, too, hate quicklynches, but bringing scum to L-1 quickly and watching them squirm is fun. How quickly a wagon goes up to L-1 or L-2 isn't really alignment indicative.

[serrapaladin]

About what? Mhork mistook my statement for advocating quicklynches, which I don't. I stand by the point that wagons building up quickly are fine, and jumping off quick wagons is most commonly motivated by town paranoia.

[serrapaladin]

I didn't much care for the rest of Mhork's wall. 509 is bad again. People literally said that the reason they dislike his wagon is its speed, so I pointed out that that's a silly reason to dislike a wagon.

As sorry as I am to say it, this sort of play could very well come from town-fuzzy.

[serrapaladin]

Nah, I don't wanna lynch fuzz.

Mhork is way too happy about this wagon...

[serrapaladin]

Yeah. After 4 or something games with him, I'm suspicious of anyone with a strong read on fuzzy...

[serrapaladin]

So Squid's main has played with fuzzy? That narrows it down a bit

Des doesn't strike me as scummy at all.

[serrapaladin]

My motivations? Let's please not do this again <3

[serrapaladin]

trying too hard to be town.

This is such a poor scumtell...

[serrapaladin]

Thoughts on what I think of Desp here and the similarities of my thoughts on stringer though?

This? Meh, I don't really see the similarity. I mean, stringer was obviously a good player and just sort of hanging back while town destroyed itself. Desp has put himself out there, giving enough stuff to read him by. If the only comparison you're drawing is that you have a gut scumread on a universal townread, that's not enough for me...

[serrapaladin]

kuro, mini and desp are probably town. I feel the majority of scum are probably lurking at the moment.

I'd still like a Mhork lynch, although I'd be willing to consider sala or maybe guille (didn't like his fuzzy attack).

[serrapaladin]

I probably won't have time to go through all of your walls until Monday, I'm afraid. For now, I'll just repeat that I got a genuine feeling from most of his posts, and I don't think he's really a viable lynch target for today, given the upcoming DL. As to Guille, I found his fuzzy case to be entirely superficial and going after an easy target. I remember him saying Mhork looks scummy, too, but he never followed up on that. I quite like the idea of Mhork/Guille.

[serrapaladin]

I didn't find anything opportunistic on first sight, to be honest. If it's true that he called you out on lots of scummy things, but didn't give you a scumread, that's quite bad. For the most part, at least earlier, I felt he was hung up on how anti-town not signing is, which doesn't necessarily lead to a scumread.

Kuro is looking pretty town, whereas ETL admittedly had some dubious posts, so that progression is rather natural.

[serrapaladin]

Spoiler:

I'll be more productive and respond to stuff soon. But yeah, I'm afraid you're barking up the wrong tree this time, Ms. Marple.

[serrapaladin]

Hey Ms Marple, I might help you lynch Desp tomorrow. I don't think we have time today.

Mhork or Sala for today would be okay.

Deadline is coming up guys, so let's see some votes for the main wagons.

[serrapaladin]

Well, if you think Desp could still happen today, I'll back you up. His most recent responses to "you're scum" have sounded like "good luck proving it" to me, rather than straight out denying it. His ad populum concerning lots of people having a townread on him was particularly bad.

[serrapaladin]

VOTE: Desp

[serrapaladin]

Hey fuzzy, what made you vote Desp?

[serrapaladin]

Gah...it's 21 hours to DL.

[serrapaladin]

Some of Marangal's points are not bad. I really don't like his posts that argue that she's wrong because so many people have read him as town. As town, I never really take stock of who's currently townreading me.

I'd still sort of prefer Mhork for today, but if the alternative is fuzzy, I want desp.

[serrapaladin]

Spoiler:

Yes, but the way you respond make it sound like I'm doing it

intentionally

. Town do not do that kind of thing Intentionally.

you never said it, but you sure as hell imply it. Sound familiar?

It's vaguely reminiscent of something I said to Syry earlier in the game, but there is a world of difference between voting someone and explicitly comparing their actions to previous town hydras and concluding they were acting differently, and how I've been behaving toward you.

This is the last thing I'm going to say on this subject: Look at the way I'm speaking to/about ETL in #s 186, 240, and 283 and fuzzy in #s 478, 497, and 503, and then compare it to the way that I've been speaking to you. When I think someone is scum there is no mistaking it. Specifically, count the amount of times I either a) call them scum or b) directly link them to scummy behavior (for example, "it reads like scummy panic" or "I see a ton of details designed to disassociate himself from being scum) when talking to them, and then count the times I do those things when I'm talking to you. Your do not have a leg to stand on here.

And just so we're clear: you're conceding that I've never said that you're scum and are now forced to fall back on "well yeah, but it was implied!!!" You are applying motivation and intent to my posts that do not exist to make your incorrect scum read on me make sense. You're so sure I'm scum (based partially on a game that I wasn't even involved in) that you can't

afford

for me to not have malicious intent behind my posts, whether the words that I say actually back that up or not.

Don't know how I missed this earlier...

and why does it matter if Syry, Serra, Squid, and Mhork read you as town? Scum can be town-read, I have had that happen to me, I have seen it happen to several people, it isn't impossible for it to happen. To be aware though of who is reading you as what, especially town-reading is Vital to scum survival and as such, they are often more aware of it then town are. Just more things pointing in the direction that you are scum. Give me more

Way to completely miss the point that I made for you in the very next sentence. With those four, (plus Wisdom, myself, and possibly guile) that's 7 people who read me as town. There are only 13 players. You do not have the support to lynch me right now. Which is what my very next sentence said--you're going to have to convince at least one of those 6 to change their read while getting everyone else to follow your vote as well, and the deadline is in less than 3 days. Do you really think you are capable of that?

And the notion that my being aware of other player's reads on me is "just another thing pointing in the direction that I'm scum" is simply absurd. I don't even know what you're suggesting...that I shouldn't be reading? Shouldn't be marking when other players make public declarations on their reads? Not only that but you asked them specifically what they thought of me, and the 4 above all posted in quick succession that I was town. You just asked Wisdom personally and he responded in kind. It's not like I'm digging through 1000 unrelated posts to discover these peoples reads...you asked for them and they gave them.

One last thing...your #s 521 and 580 make it pretty clear that your scum read on me was based on me "trying too hard to look town." You've since dropped that line of thinking entirely. Can you explain that?

Stuff like this just gives me a "I've played a good enough scum game that you'll never be able convince enough people to vote for me" vibe that I've seen from overconfident scum before, when they are globally townread.

I'll be back on Mhork for now, and make my mind up tomorrow morning...

VOTE: Mhork

[serrapaladin]

VOTE: salamence

Nice job anticipating an attack on you there. I think it's pretty likely Mhork was bussed.

As an aside, can I point out that the build-up of the Mhork wagon was quick, and he flipped scum. Wagon formation speed is and was not alignment indicative, and jumping off a wagon for being too fast is a really bad idea. Thanks!

[serrapaladin]

You think so, Wisdom? I think it'd be entirely too obvious for scum to just give away their flavour so flippantly. Plus I had a townread on her, and I have on kuro.

[serrapaladin]

I'd say the No-Kill makes sense, given the game mechanics. Scum would have to wipe out all of someone's Pokemon to get a kill.

Did the Mhork flip surprise you, Mini?

[serrapaladin]

1 makes sense. That basically cuts the remaining players in half, so there's also 1 scum not on the list.

If it turns out to be difficult for scum to get night kills, do you think there might be a chance of 4 scum?

[serrapaladin]

If it's not something town would do, he's scum, right? I think it's a fair question why you are hesitant to vote/call him scum.

[serrapaladin]

So we're lynching Jason, huh?

[serrapaladin]

The advantage the mafia gets is they can attack the same person multiple times. Normal trainers can't.

What?

[serrapaladin]

You disagree?

Not necessarily, I just hadn't taken a look yet about why people were voting him.

Syr and you make decent points. Not sure about Desp's, as Jason didn't really post anything interesting yesterday, and Mhork also basically ignored Guille and Squid.

Re post 2: Thanks, I didn't get that scum can all target the same person, but that definitely makes sense.

Once we have our Pokemon stats, how would you feel about claiming attacks?

[serrapaladin]

Fair enough.

My thoughts about claiming were that town's targets should coincide with reads, whereas scum's targets likely would not. Targets can, of course, confirm whether (and maybe even how often?) they were attacked. The trade-off is that scum knows who is weakened. Just a thought.

[serrapaladin]

Jason, can you summarize why fuzzy is scum in a line or two?

[serrapaladin]

Wow, this game.

Why Guille?

[serrapaladin]

I definitely want to go on, if he comes back. The setup is too cool not to.

[serrapaladin]

I was bug catcher Taylor, starting with Treecko.

[serrapaladin]

Mhork/Guille, who was your third? I think Guille might have gotten eventually. If Sala was 3, this was probably town's.

[serrapaladin]

Look at me, just derping my way through life.