Mini 1438: Gonzo Mafia (Scum Win)

[buldermar]

VOTE: jon

Rem and mollie: you're making a mistake unless you're absolutely certain that both of IAI and kuro can't be scum.

[buldermar]

Assuming, you're town for a moment They're not going to use much reasoning because of the deadline. :/ we're not going to catch scum jumping on you, we can't pull them to the side of the road and interrogate them that well right now.
Why are you okay with being lynched when it is not optimal for the town to do so. You should be arguing.
Second, why did you assume Se-Asians was a cop. And why did you react the way you did to me accusing you of it?

Why are you okay with lynching jon when I've showed how it's suboptimal several times? I'm going to at the very least entertain the possibility of a IAI+rem team tomorrow if we end up lynching jon and he flips town because this last minut switch looks absolutely terrible. You've had so many days to make up your mind or to discuss whether it's better to postpone lynching jon or not and you pull this one now?

[buldermar]

Yes, but how you die actually affects our chances of winning or losing.

Which is why lynching him instead of forcing scum to spend a nk on him should he be town is absolutely terrible.

[buldermar]

I feel like I'm playing with a bunch of people with memory deficits. I explain why we shouldn't lynch jon. Everyone seems to agree. Then the two of you (Rem, mollie) somehow forget all about that and jumps on him (jon) anyway?

[buldermar]

hey jon you never did address this!

I'm not pushing it, I just considered it. Buldemar said you'd never do it, so I dropped it.

you didn't drop it the first time you brought it up or the second time so why are you dropping it now

Maybe because I told him several times that the idea of you being scum is absolutely retarded?

[buldermar]

^ Please do so.

I am seriously considering as much as I possibly can, what the right decision is. Based off of his reactions and everything else. I voted Jon because I am now officially lost. I think that has been made clear Kuror0. He is the scummiest to me. It is not optimal play from a set up perspective. And he just responded in a way that I'm not sure of, I tried to get what I could out of him, my vote is serious.

I want to talk with Buldermar. And ask him his opinion. I'll be here tomorrow. It will probably be a mess of a day.

I'll give you my current perspective on things:

I still think IAI made a scumslip.

I think the most likely scum permutations in order are:
IAI+jon, jon+kuro, IAI+you, kuro+you, IAI+kuro. I may bet able to rule out you being scum again by looking into your interactions, but this last day switch to jon, despite all of the effort I've put into explaining why it's bad, looks bad to me. Why do you think IAI is town? Have you looked at the points I made regarding him asking Rubi to claim? I know it boils down to whether or not you trust his explanation, but I personally found it quite unlikely to be true.

Either way, even if you do think IAI is town, why would you rather lynch jon than kuro?

[buldermar]

Can you explain your scum slip on IaI. And how you came to these conclusions independent of my accusations? I want to know because this would not be the first time, scum has grabbed my reasons and ran with it.

I already have explained it in thread. Which part of it are you uncertain about? Or did you simply not bother reading my posts?

- b

[buldermar]

Will do my best here on my smart phone:

D3 after I confirmed that hd was a cop, I suggested a plan that said we consider mantis and rubicon off limits, to keep them from claiming.

I was quickly met with much sceptism that I was scum trying to protect a teammate. This was sign #1 that this was not going to happen.

Then rubicon, who had 2 votes when my plan was suggested, received 2 more, including the nearly confirmed cop hd and nearly confirmed town mollie. This was sign #2 that my plan was not being accepted.

Since my plan was not being accepted, I felt the next best thing to do was ensure an accidental or intentional hammer did not happen on an unclaimed player, esp since he could be a n3 doc. So I asked for the claim as I felt that was all i had left.

Since it was in the best interest of scum to know the unknown roles, I was curious to see where the votes came from that got rubicon to l-1 and to my claim request.

You're leaving out key aspects of this - in fact you left out nearly everything that is my reasoning for thinking you're likely to be scum.

- b

[buldermar]

hey jon you never did address this!

I'm not pushing it, I just considered it. Buldemar said you'd never do it, so I dropped it.

you didn't drop it the first time you brought it up or the second time so why are you dropping it now

Maybe because I told him several times that the idea of you being scum is absolutely retarded?

yes but he is saying that he merely considered it when what he did was to actively push the idea. I am voting him cos he is my strongest scum read. IaI is looking town and you trying to push his lynch through even though he might be town is suboptimal play. and you ignoring all of jon's very scummy play is making me paranoid of you.

I'm not ignoring his scummy play, I'm just not entertaining the idea of lynching him today because it's bad. Please don't make me repeat this anymore.

I'm going to vote IAI because he's in my eyes the most likely to be scum. If he's scum and jon is alive tomorrow then I'm going to need a really, really good reason not to lynch him and the only reason I can currently think of is Rem's sudden change of vote. If he is town and jon is alive I probably still will need a good reason not to lynch him, but then we also have to really consider kuro imo.

I don't think there is room for really entertaining the idea of Asians being scum. His play lately has been super town-minded and I have a mental note of him doing several "town slips" when we were discussing hydra issues. I'm also not going to entertain the idea of you being scum, mollie.

VOTE: IAI

[buldermar]

stating intent to hammer kuror so if anybody has anything they want to say, say it now.

My only real issue is that I think IAI made a scumslip and that it seems unlikely that both of kuro and IAI is scum. Other than that, I still think kuro is likely to be scum, and if we're going by the hypothesis of 2 of kuro/IAI/jon being scum then it really doesn't matter who we lynch.

[buldermar]

Lol. You put b next to your name.

I forgot that I'm not playing from the hydra atm -_-

[buldermar]

I am asking if you took my accusation, or if you came up with it yourself.

I came up with it myself, dammit. Why don't you read my posts? Here is what happened, briefly speaking. He made a post in which he stated that he was going to look into "who pushed rubi to claim". I went and reread the thread. As it turned out, HE was the one pushing rubi to a claim. When I confronted him with this he made a few arguments:
1) he said that there is a difference between ASKING for a claim and PUSHING SOMEONE to claim. He said that he felt he HAD TO ask for a claim because rubi was at L-1, but that what he meant by PUSHING for a claim was looking into who got rubi up to L-1 in the first place. I don't buy this explanation because it seems like a weird distinction to make and it's so easy to fabricate this explanation subsequent to being questioned. What I think happened is that he essentially forgot that he was the one asking rubi to claim and he thought he could make a scumcase on someone by "looking into who pushed rubi for a claim".

2) he said that he suggested a plan that nobody accepted, and only subsequently asked rubi to claim because nobody accepted his plan.

It essentially boils down to me not trusting that he didn't just fabricate the whole distinction of "asking" for a claim and "pushing someone" to claim. I challenged this by asking him to find just one post in which he mentioned that he asked rubi to claim because rubi was on L-1 (as this was the explanation he gave me), but he didn't find any. Obviously I can't be entirely sure that he isn't telling the truth, but it seems really, really weird that he'd ask someone to claim because that person is on L-1, not mention that he asked because of this, and subsequently look into "who pushed rubi to claim". This is what I refer to when I say that I think he scumslipped.

If you want more details, just reread our conversation regarding it.

[buldermar]

what was the scumslip?

who are your picks for a team?

Read the thread and read the post I just made for rem.

Also I mentioned my picks for a team not too long ago, read that post too.

[buldermar]

pretty sure IaI is town.

I'm pretty sure you're wrong, but we'll see soon enough. If kuro flips scum then I'll have to really reconsider my interpretation of IAI's scumslip... but I still think it's more likely that kuro is town and IAI is scum.

[buldermar]

we will probably have a few hours of twighlight so buldey you have time to answer I know you are around so don't pull the "you asked a question and then hammered" bs.

I honestly want to take a shower, I've been working out, but if it's just a few questions then ask them now and I'll try to answer.

[buldermar]

I know Buldermar. It's funny anyway.

I know I've done it a couple of times already in this game :/

[buldermar]

Actually, I'll take a shower now and respond once I get back.

[buldermar]

Will do my best here on my smart phone:

D3 after I confirmed that hd was a cop, I suggested a plan that said we consider mantis and rubicon off limits, to keep them from claiming.

I was quickly met with much sceptism that I was scum trying to protect a teammate. This was sign #1 that this was not going to happen.

Then rubicon, who had 2 votes when my plan was suggested, received 2 more, including the nearly confirmed cop hd and nearly confirmed town mollie. This was sign #2 that my plan was not being accepted.

Since my plan was not being accepted, I felt the next best thing to do was ensure an accidental or intentional hammer did not happen on an unclaimed player, esp since he could be a n3 doc. So I asked for the claim as I felt that was all i had left.

Since it was in the best interest of scum to know the unknown roles, I was curious to see where the votes came from that got rubicon to l-1 and to my claim request.

You're leaving out key aspects of this - in fact you left out nearly everything that is my reasoning for thinking you're likely to be scum.

- b

I honestly thought your issue was that you think when I said "who pushed for the claim" I meant who asked for the claim (you really think I would have forgotten it was me? ), while I actually meant who ignored the plan and helped him get to L-1. If there is another key aspect like you say, please share it again and I'll do my best to address it.

Yes, I really think you would have forgotten that it was you.

My issue is primarily that I think you by saying "who pushed for the claim" actually meant "who asked rubi to claim". You didn't mention this at all when explaining things to rem.

Anyway, I think there isn't really any merit to having you explain it now.

[buldermar]

Okay. I believe you. I did read it Buldermar. I've read the whole thread.

Alright. I guess it's really just a matter of me interpreting it one way and the rest of you a different way. To me it still looks like a scumslip.

[buldermar]

What I think happened is that he essentially forgot that he was the one asking rubi to claim and he thought he could make a scumcase on someone by "looking into who pushed rubi for a claim".

LOL, so you thought I would just pick a random mystery player, and not even check out who that player was (myself, my teammate as you suggest, just some random X) and attack them?

Come on, you're smarter than that.

It was just a tiny part of a huge list of things you said you were going to do IIRC. I think you'd mention it and then later on go "hey look guys I now looked into this and bla bla", and just avoid mentioning it if it wouldn't work to your advantage.

I swear if you are condescending just one more time I'm going to stop being diplomatic in my conversation with you. You have already stated that you think I'm retarded and that you are never going to play with me again. I don't personally have any issues with you, but there is a limit to the amount of crap I'm willing to take from you.

[buldermar]

Out for now, be back later.

[buldermar]

Will do my best here on my smart phone:

D3 after I confirmed that hd was a cop, I suggested a plan that said we consider mantis and rubicon off limits, to keep them from claiming.

I was quickly met with much sceptism that I was scum trying to protect a teammate. This was sign #1 that this was not going to happen.

Then rubicon, who had 2 votes when my plan was suggested, received 2 more, including the nearly confirmed cop hd and nearly confirmed town mollie. This was sign #2 that my plan was not being accepted.

Since my plan was not being accepted, I felt the next best thing to do was ensure an accidental or intentional hammer did not happen on an unclaimed player, esp since he could be a n3 doc. So I asked for the claim as I felt that was all i had left.

Since it was in the best interest of scum to know the unknown roles, I was curious to see where the votes came from that got rubicon to l-1 and to my claim request.

You're leaving out key aspects of this - in fact you left out nearly everything that is my reasoning for thinking you're likely to be scum.

- b

I honestly thought your issue was that you think when I said "who pushed for the claim" I meant who asked for the claim (you really think I would have forgotten it was me? ), while I actually meant who ignored the plan and helped him get to L-1. If there is another key aspect like you say, please share it again and I'll do my best to address it.

Yes, I really think you would have forgotten that it was you.

My issue is primarily that I think you by saying "who pushed for the claim" actually meant "who asked rubi to claim". You didn't mention this at all when explaining things to rem.

Anyway, I think there isn't really any merit to having you explain it now.

Read my next post and then remember my play in Posh....does that really sound like the same scum to you?

Posh - crumbed Cop in my first post as a traitor
Attacked two players D1 and then dropped my attack of one of those players D2 so I'd have a town investigation ready
investigated the n2 NK target and got people to believe it
had 2 scum investigations and got both killed.

ducks in a row buddy, and here you think scum IAI pick someone at random who could be me or a teammate? Read my explanation again and look at this post and think objectively which is more likely.....town IAI or scum IAI. Cause your the only one who is stuck on this.

Self-meta is useless. For all I know you could be picking the specific one game you played as scum that isn't in accordance with how you're playing here.

[buldermar]

we will probably have a few hours of twighlight so buldey you have time to answer I know you are around so don't pull the "you asked a question and then hammered" bs.

I honestly want to take a shower, I've been working out, but if it's just a few questions then ask them now and I'll try to answer.

nah I will go back and reread if you already answered them.

Alrighty

[buldermar]

What I think happened is that he essentially forgot that he was the one asking rubi to claim and he thought he could make a scumcase on someone by "looking into who pushed rubi for a claim".

LOL, so you thought I would just pick a random mystery player, and not even check out who that player was (myself, my teammate as you suggest, just some random X) and attack them?

Come on, you're smarter than that.

It was just a tiny part of a huge list of things you said you were going to do IIRC. I think you'd mention it and then later on go "hey look guys I now looked into this and bla bla", and just avoid mentioning it if it wouldn't work to your advantage.

I swear if you are condescending just one more time I'm going to stop being diplomatic in my conversation with you. You have already stated that you think I'm retarded and that you are never going to play with me again. I don't personally have any issues with you, but there is a limit to the amount of crap I'm willing to take from you.

Condescending, like maybe what you said in 3149 "I know you're not stupid, so quit acting that way."

Respect goes both ways. Both with you (see above) and Remembrance (calling me a jerk). Both ways buddy.

Alright, I apologize for that post.

[buldermar]

My last exam starts tomorrow. It's a one week exam, which means I probably wont be online much until a few days prior to deadline.

[buldermar]

@Buldermar, can you tell me about those town slips you found on Se-Asians. Quote, reasoning, everything?

Yes, I need to do this anyway. I really don't want to do it right now, though - I've been studying all day and would rather relax with a movie. I know it's there somewhere. I recall that it's related to the fact that the slot is a hydra, but I don't recall exactly what it is. I'll get around to it.

[buldermar]

This is ridiculous.

I don't see scum in anyone's iso. Someone talk to me. I already pmed Majiffy to ask if he was trolling. He said he wasn't.

I want to think that you're town, but with the rubi-slot flipping town I'm not as certain. I also want to hear more about IAI's case on you now since kuro flipped scum and since I think it makes it less likely for IAI to be scum (although I'll have to look into this as well). I'm still absolutely certain that mollie is town.

[buldermar]

But, because I don't get killed last night, it's mean the scum afraid with the investigate.

Vote : Buldermar

Let's have 1 v 1.

What is this even supposed to mean?

[buldermar]

1) Mollie is my top town read too. If she is scum, this game is lost as it seems nobody will ever vote for her, so I think we need to assume she is indeed town.
2) If we mislynch today, D6 is either MyLo (if SE Asians is a doc AND he correctly protects the right person) or LyLo (if no interference on the NK)
3) Because of #2, I think it is more important to have Mollie alive D6 than try to get to MyLo over LyLo, so I suggest we have SE Asians announce in thread D5 that he is going to protect her N5. That way if he is scum, Mollie has to still be alive D6 or we auto-lynch him, and if he is not scum, she will be alive D6 as he will protect her and that increases our chances to win the game based on #1.

I do like your plan, but I think it's better to have him protect a random target. Only by protecting a random target will there be a chance of no NK happening

unless

scum nk's Asians specifically, in which case scum will still be more restrained than in the scenario in which Asians is protecting mollie specifically and scum can nk any other player than mollie, including Asians. If Asians is scum then you're right that we benefit from forcing him to leave mollie alive, but he's only restrained if he specifically wanted to nk mollie - in all other cases it doesn't matter.

Am I missing something?

- b

[buldermar]

There is one thing that bothers me about you, IAI. I don't usually meta, but I think I may actually look into this one because it should be easy to confirm/disconfirm. Just writing it so that I remember once I have better time.

- b

buldermar (L-2): SE-Asians
Remembrance (L-2): I Am Innocent

Not Voting: I Am Innocent, pirate mollie, buldermar

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.
Deadline is on Sunday, June 16th at 8:00 PM EST.

[buldermar]

You avoided acknowledging his case on me Buldermar. But you considered his plan. Why?

Because his case looks to be too much tunneling to be of any use unless you actually have the time to look into the context of each individual post he quotes, which I simply don't right now.

- b

[buldermar]

Actually, never mind to both my never minds. Buldermar decided to focus on a plan in the possibility of a mislynch instead of taking a stance. questioning a player's allocation of time being questionably used is probably a good thing. So I would like to know why you devoted time to IaI's plan rather than on his case, which you specifically asked for.

@IaI, if I'm not scum who is scum and why? I'm not scum, so it's worth you thinking it over. Similar question to anyone else that considers voting me.

I wont be taking a stance until I've reread some parts of the game (for instance, IAI's case on you and I have to figure out if my Asians town read is still valid), and I likely wont be doing this prior to the 11th.

I focused on the plan because it didn't require for me to read a lot and because I enjoy that kind of stuff.

[buldermar]

why do we have SE as town again?

I'm getting to this, but IIRC it has to do with him being in a hydra and dropping one or more town tell(s) that I couldn't imagine being deliberate.

[buldermar]

MAJIFFY, WHY DOES UR AVATAR CONSIST OF NACHOTAR + PINK HEART?

[buldermar]

He lost a bet with Nacho.

viewtopic.php?f=83&t=28260

What was the bet? I thought sig bets and avatar bets were prohibited.

- b

[buldermar]

Buldermar, if Jon was alive today, then it should be me who was going to be killed at night because I still have my power. I don't think Jon would be not lynched today. Though, after that Jon's result is confirmed whatever his result.

It just night speculation.

I'm not sure I understand this. Could you try to phrase it differently? Sorry.

- b

[buldermar]

Oh God I'm doing the -b thing again.

[buldermar]

Kinda wish Buldemar brought his A game though, meta of town games, shows he's usually more focused on the game then he has been here. /:

Is this with respect to the game in its entirety or solely with respect to the last few gamedays where I've had exams?

[buldermar]

Entirety. Exams can't be helped. I went V/LA for the same reason earlier in the last game day.

I think I actually contributed a lot to day 1 especially, so I don't feel like this is accurate. Whatever, we may just be looking at it differently.

[buldermar]

yeah I am leaning town on buldey too

it is between you and SE

this is why SE should never have made it this close to endgame. because of the language barrier he is hard to read.

sora has been active on the site and the weird way in which they read nacho was well weird. it was hedging pure and simple and sora has been active elsewhere on the site but I don't think he has posted in this game since d1. lurking is a scumtell for sora I think but gah, has claimed n5 doc

Why are you ruling out IAI as a possibility entirely?

[buldermar]

My bad. My writing sucks.

If Jon alive, night kill (almost likely me), almost likely Jon is going to mislynched (especially town result), confirm 1 person.

Alright, I think I understand, and I agree. However, I'm not entirely sure how it relates to your withdrawal from 1v1'ing me?

Remembrance (L-2): I Am Innocent
I Am Innocent (L-2): SE-Asians

Not Voting: I Am Innocent, pirate mollie, buldermar

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.
Deadline is on Sunday, June 16th at 8:00 PM EST.

[buldermar]

I'm embarrassed about my lack of activity recently. I finished the last exam yesterday and went out to celebrate that after. Had to get up early for a meeting with a lawyer and then subseqently had to get to my mothers wedding. Now I'm hangover, extemely sleep deprivated and can't fall asleep. I'll do some reading and posting now, but if you guys prefer that I replace out then I fully understand that and will do so, just tell me. Sorry.

[buldermar]

Go for it. You still have a 50/50 chance in LyLo between bulder and remembrance.

The person that it favors you the least to lynch currently has to be yourself regardless of your alignment given the setup and status of the game, so this is nonsense.

[buldermar]

They also in past days held out as long as possible (or in Bulder's case, forever) from lynching Kuror.

I had Kuror as my 2nd most preferred lynch and only slightly after you IIRC. I didn't think the lynch order would matter a ton because I thought the two scum would be in you, kuro, rubi-slot. I don't know if that theory is still plausible given conversations between Kuro and you - it's something worth looking into.

Man I'm so tired that I don't even understand if what I'm writing makes sense, but it's really all I can do atm.

[buldermar]

PS - Remembrance and Bulder, in your next post, I want you two to stop waffling and to rank the players from scummiest to towniest. I will do likewise:

Remembrance
Bulder
Asians
Mollie

I don't like how you're trying so hard to sell the idea that I'm waffling.

I havn't had a closer look at your case on rem yet, and I havn't checked up on my initial town read of Asians. Without doing that I'd say mollie is town for certain, Asians is still very town even though Rubi-slot flipped town which weakened my theory a bit, have to look at Rem and have to look at you as well. I'm not buying all your self-meta, but I've come to the conclusion that you probably do it as either alignment.

[buldermar]

If Asians or Mollie are somehow scum, I will personally take this loss on myself and nom that player for a scummy.

Or personally take the win if you're scum.

[buldermar]

And ofc mollie should be in LyLo, even if she feels uncomfortable. Worst case scenario she can flip a coin and will still almost certainly statistically do better than what can be expected from any other permutation that doesn't contain her because she's confirmed town.

[buldermar]

So in all sincerity, that is where I was coming from with why you should be in LyLo, and why it should be declared by Asians that he will be protecting you.

Asians declaring that he is protecting mollie is brilliant and I'm absolutely convinced that he understands why and I'm absolutely certain that I will not be pointing out why that is.

[buldermar]

Still, we need those lists from Remembrance and Bulder.

I feel like you're trying to set yourself up to push me and call it scummy that I don't have any elaborate list ready knowing that I've been busy with exams, which could only be scum motivated. Could also be that you really just want a list, but it does stand out to me how you were trying to paint me as waffling when I've been quite explicit about the fact that I wanted you lynched yesterday for what I considered a scum slip.

[buldermar]

I'm going to find the posts regarding my initial Asians read now.

[buldermar]

I wish I had not made so many posts in this game

[buldermar]

I just realized that it being a hydra account may skew things towards it actually being a joke. If it was indeed a fake-claim, I'd imagine that some percentage of the time the person intending to make the fake-claim would confront the other participants of the hydra with the idea before actually making it. I'm not saying that I rule it out altogether, but this does make me second guess myself.

There may be more, I'll check.

[buldermar]

I take that back, I'm quite sure that this is the most important quote and either way I feel like it's a strong enough case for Asians being town to not have to look further. This means that it really boils down to one of IAI and Rem being scum.

[buldermar]

@Buldermar, Glad you could join us, congratulations on your Mother's wedding . Well I look forward to your analysis I'd also like to hear why that hydra analysis as to why it was likely a joke makes him town. There is definitely more firm things than a joke fake claim that point to town him. Why not those?
Also, I look forward to your analysis of IaI's reasons for why I'm scum. And also why you decided to reevaluate your read on me, given you bet Mollie that I was town. You never really mentioned why you thought I was town in the first place.

I think town hydras joke about these matters more often than do scum hydras. Either way, I subsequently consolidated my town-read on Asians but didn't quote all of the posts in which I mention that slot because I was specifically looking for this post.

I've decided to reevaluate my read on you because of the combination of Rubi-slot flipping town and IAI reading you as scum. For you to be town IAI would pretty much have to be scum whereas before there were additional possibilities that seemed very plausible (that's not to say that it's not plausible that IAI is scum, but I can't help but to think that kuro flipping scum skews his alignment at least slightly towards town).

I don't recall whether I pointed out specific posts of yours as town-ish.

[buldermar]

Why would IaI have to be scum just because he scum reads me? That doesn't make any sense.

Because Asians and mollie are both town. How does it not make sense?

[buldermar]

You've already stated you haven't evaluated his case, so to reevaluate your reads before looking if they have any merit is not well conceived.

I don't believe you've ever pointed out a specific thing I did as townish. As far as I can remember. Just a rather steady insistence I was.

I don't know, but I don't recall you doing anything I at any point in the game thought to be inherently scum motivated.

Remembrance (L-2): I Am Innocent
I Am Innocent (L-2): SE-Asians

Not Voting: I Am Innocent, pirate mollie, buldermar

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.
Deadline is on Sunday, June 16th at 8:00 PM EST.

[buldermar]

I was on fate until you all bailed on it

mollie is a claimed PR so that's not today

Why isn't mollie today just because she's a claimed PR? I don't get that logic at all.

Why did you revise your position on this type of thinking later down the line Buldermar?

I don't remember what I had in mind when I asked the question.

[buldermar]

I was on fate until you all bailed on it

mollie is a claimed PR so that's not today

Why isn't mollie today just because she's a claimed PR? I don't get that logic at all.

Why did you revise your position on this type of thinking later down the line Buldermar?

I don't remember what I had in mind when I asked the question.

[buldermar]

I was on fate until you all bailed on it

mollie is a claimed PR so that's not today

Why isn't mollie today just because she's a claimed PR? I don't get that logic at all.

Why did you revise your position on this type of thinking later down the line Buldermar?

I don't remember what I had in mind when I asked the question.

[buldermar]

I was on fate until you all bailed on it

mollie is a claimed PR so that's not today

Why isn't mollie today just because she's a claimed PR? I don't get that logic at all.

Why did you revise your position on this type of thinking later down the line Buldermar?

I don't remember what I had in mind when I asked the question.

[buldermar]

I was on fate until you all bailed on it

mollie is a claimed PR so that's not today

Why isn't mollie today just because she's a claimed PR? I don't get that logic at all.

Why did you revise your position on this type of thinking later down the line Buldermar?

I don't remember what I had in mind when I asked the question.

[buldermar]

I was on fate until you all bailed on it

mollie is a claimed PR so that's not today

Why isn't mollie today just because she's a claimed PR? I don't get that logic at all.

Why did you revise your position on this type of thinking later down the line Buldermar?

I don't remember what I had in mind when I asked the question.

[buldermar]

I was on fate until you all bailed on it

mollie is a claimed PR so that's not today

Why isn't mollie today just because she's a claimed PR? I don't get that logic at all.

Why did you revise your position on this type of thinking later down the line Buldermar?

I don't remember what I had in mind when I asked the question.

[buldermar]

I was on fate until you all bailed on it

mollie is a claimed PR so that's not today

Why isn't mollie today just because she's a claimed PR? I don't get that logic at all.

Why did you revise your position on this type of thinking later down the line Buldermar?

I don't remember what I had in mind when I asked the question.

[buldermar]

I was on fate until you all bailed on it

mollie is a claimed PR so that's not today

Why isn't mollie today just because she's a claimed PR? I don't get that logic at all.

Why did you revise your position on this type of thinking later down the line Buldermar?

I don't remember what I had in mind when I asked the question.

[buldermar]

I was on fate until you all bailed on it

mollie is a claimed PR so that's not today

Why isn't mollie today just because she's a claimed PR? I don't get that logic at all.

Why did you revise your position on this type of thinking later down the line Buldermar?

I don't remember what I had in mind when I asked the question.

[buldermar]

I was on fate until you all bailed on it

mollie is a claimed PR so that's not today

Why isn't mollie today just because she's a claimed PR? I don't get that logic at all.

Why did you revise your position on this type of thinking later down the line Buldermar?

I don't remember what I had in mind when I asked the question.

[buldermar]

I was on fate until you all bailed on it

mollie is a claimed PR so that's not today

Why isn't mollie today just because she's a claimed PR? I don't get that logic at all.

Why did you revise your position on this type of thinking later down the line Buldermar?

I don't remember what I had in mind when I asked the question.

[buldermar]

I was on fate until you all bailed on it

mollie is a claimed PR so that's not today

Why isn't mollie today just because she's a claimed PR? I don't get that logic at all.

Why did you revise your position on this type of thinking later down the line Buldermar?

I don't remember what I had in mind when I asked the question.

[buldermar]

I was on fate until you all bailed on it

mollie is a claimed PR so that's not today

Why isn't mollie today just because she's a claimed PR? I don't get that logic at all.

Why did you revise your position on this type of thinking later down the line Buldermar?

I don't remember what I had in mind when I asked the question.

[buldermar]

I was on fate until you all bailed on it

mollie is a claimed PR so that's not today

Why isn't mollie today just because she's a claimed PR? I don't get that logic at all.

Why did you revise your position on this type of thinking later down the line Buldermar?

I don't remember what I had in mind when I asked the question.

[buldermar]

I was on fate until you all bailed on it

mollie is a claimed PR so that's not today

Why isn't mollie today just because she's a claimed PR? I don't get that logic at all.

Why did you revise your position on this type of thinking later down the line Buldermar?

I don't remember what I had in mind when I asked the question.

[buldermar]

I was on fate until you all bailed on it

mollie is a claimed PR so that's not today

Why isn't mollie today just because she's a claimed PR? I don't get that logic at all.

Why did you revise your position on this type of thinking later down the line Buldermar?

I don't remember what I had in mind when I asked the question.

[buldermar]

I was on fate until you all bailed on it

mollie is a claimed PR so that's not today

Why isn't mollie today just because she's a claimed PR? I don't get that logic at all.

Why did you revise your position on this type of thinking later down the line Buldermar?

I don't remember what I had in mind when I asked the question.

[buldermar]

I was on fate until you all bailed on it

mollie is a claimed PR so that's not today

Why isn't mollie today just because she's a claimed PR? I don't get that logic at all.

Why did you revise your position on this type of thinking later down the line Buldermar?

I don't remember what I had in mind when I asked the question.

[buldermar]

I was on fate until you all bailed on it

mollie is a claimed PR so that's not today

Why isn't mollie today just because she's a claimed PR? I don't get that logic at all.

Why did you revise your position on this type of thinking later down the line Buldermar?

I don't remember what I had in mind when I asked the question.

[buldermar]

I was on fate until you all bailed on it

mollie is a claimed PR so that's not today

Why isn't mollie today just because she's a claimed PR? I don't get that logic at all.

Why did you revise your position on this type of thinking later down the line Buldermar?

I don't remember what I had in mind when I asked the question.

[buldermar]

I was on fate until you all bailed on it

mollie is a claimed PR so that's not today

Why isn't mollie today just because she's a claimed PR? I don't get that logic at all.

Why did you revise your position on this type of thinking later down the line Buldermar?

I don't remember what I had in mind when I asked the question.

[buldermar]

I was on fate until you all bailed on it

mollie is a claimed PR so that's not today

Why isn't mollie today just because she's a claimed PR? I don't get that logic at all.

Why did you revise your position on this type of thinking later down the line Buldermar?

I don't remember what I had in mind when I asked the question.

[buldermar]

I was on fate until you all bailed on it

mollie is a claimed PR so that's not today

Why isn't mollie today just because she's a claimed PR? I don't get that logic at all.

Why did you revise your position on this type of thinking later down the line Buldermar?

I don't remember what I had in mind when I asked the question.

[buldermar]

I was on fate until you all bailed on it

mollie is a claimed PR so that's not today

Why isn't mollie today just because she's a claimed PR? I don't get that logic at all.

Why did you revise your position on this type of thinking later down the line Buldermar?

I don't remember what I had in mind when I asked the question.

Remembrance (L-2): I Am Innocent
I Am Innocent (L-2): SE-Asians
buldermar (L-2): Remembrance

Not Voting: buldermar

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.
Deadline is on Sunday, June 16th at 8:00 PM EST.

[buldermar]

I was on fate until you all bailed on it

mollie is a claimed PR so that's not today

Why isn't mollie today just because she's a claimed PR? I don't get that logic at all.

Why did you revise your position on this type of thinking later down the line Buldermar?

I don't remember what I had in mind when I asked the question.

[buldermar]

Godfuckingdamnitbuldermar.

Ye I had major lag. Then I went to bed in frustration because it wouldn't post the fucking post. Turns out it did.

[buldermar]

Then he has.
And there is no point continuing this conversation further. Since he can hammer for the win tomorrow.

VOTE: IaI

I don't think IaI is scum. And I think we just lost. His dissatisfaction and anger at his plans being ignored seems no less genuine than it was originally.

However it means nothing if you won't reconsider Mollie. None of it means anything.

3 months to vote someone I don't think is scum so I can get hammered by PoE.

*sigh*

Oh well. I think Buldermar is the last scum personally. He forgets way to much and it sticks to what he imagines himself to be as scum, someone who doesn't say anything that is necessarily scummy, yet somehow votes wrong when he should vote right. Plausible deniability is a scum tell and Buldermar has excelled at it. He has not pressured people, but has taken on a more fatalistic stance, he reneged on a read that he seemed absolutely sure of. And did it using someone he himself thought was scum along with most of the town and for good reason. And then reveals he had no special reason for the read and has given one of the worst reasons for thinking someone is town I've seen in a while. There is so much there, but he never looks in the right places or concentrates on the right things.

His two hunting contributions for scum hunting are things that someone had pointed out or said before. It doesn't feel right.

Part of me wanted to keep Se-Asians here and just ask him to vote Buldermar and then get IaI to vote Buldermar with me. But I couldn't do that because he just wasn't active enough. So this is it.

This looks like you know IAI is town and you're setting yourself up to mislynch me tomorrow.

[buldermar]

Early this day Buldermar immediately sent IaI after me, by asking for his case, when he had seen the information before, it was simply a prompting to get him back onto me. Buldermar has not spent his time wisely this day cycle if he is town, but for scum he has prioritized the right (inconsequential) things. IaI might be scum, It's not inconceivable. The Se-Asians and Mollie town read comes along with a plan that keeps both of them alive, yet conveniently ignores the third player that spared him. His list request and the prioritizing on me going first might be fear that he can't beat Buldermar and wants to see if he can push for his lynch today and then can lynch the more plausible player tomorrow. But there's also other things that don't point this way. Which I've discussed already. It's also not necessarily scum motivated, just him playing in line with the hand he has been dealt.

How the fuck did I supposedly "send" IAI after you?

How have I not spent my time wisely? I can understand an argument of me not spending enough time on this game today, but how was the time I spent poorly distributed?

What kind of right (inconsequential) things have I prioritized?

You accuse me of mirroring others reads, yet you blatantly copy things I pointed out with respect to IAI. For instance, what you mention regarding his reads list is

exactly

what I pointed out.

[buldermar]

I think the subtle pushes that Buldermar made between Kuror0 and himself is a lot more likely to be a scum partner thing, than the huge scum theater thing which requires more effort. Kuror0 didn't have time to put that much effort into the game, so why plan a big fight when he didn't have the time for it? While Buldermar called Kuror0 out on the investigation he never voted him for it, but IaI did.

What "subtle" pushes? I've been very explicit about my priorities wrt IAI and kuro, and you seem to just ignore that to conveniently fit the picture into your personal frame.

[buldermar]

Buldermar's case for Se-Asians is strange. I've pointed out things that make Se-Asians most likely town, but Buldermar didn't, Nothing in that quote actually points to a town alignment, the information just points to the possibility that he joked around about his fake claim, yet he satisfied himself with it and then used that to town read him (to the point of excluding him as a possibility) he then goes on to compliment him for a "brilliant" plan that he won't elaborate on. It might not be what Se was thinking(or if Se-Asians even had a plan at all), it is essentially an under the table compliment that is untraceable.

If does point to a town alignment when a town-hydra specifically is more likely to do something as a joke than is a scum-hydra. It isn't the only thing regarding him. We were talking about one thing specifically, which I found, and now you're holding it against me that I didn't find other things as well that you never asked for and I never saw an incentive to find.

I didn't say it was a plan IIRC, but if I did use the word plan that was misleading. He is doing a brilliant thing in announcing that he is protecting mollie because it frees him up to protect others as well while still guaranteeing that mollie isn't nk'ed because scum can't know for sure whether he actually protects mollie 100% of the time or some lower percentage of the time. I was positive that this is what he intended to do because he phrased his post like "actually I'M PROTECTING MOLLIE" or something like that with emphasis on protecting mollie. Fuck you for pushing this retarded point of me giving him some sort of under the table compliment.

[buldermar]

This isn't the product of someone who is actually thinking of what they're doing as town. Simply deciding what they need to do to win as scum. He used the logic that he himself disagreed with earlier in the game to renege on his town read of me. He consistently challenged players that had me as scum or suspected me, yet now I learn he had nothing in particular that made him have that belief. Why? What is the purpose of doing that? Why did he invite me to a town block when he had nothing substantial the whole game that warranted that conviction?

You are making up something again. This time you're making up that I did not have something substantial because I cannot currently remember one particular post. I'm sure that if I go back, I can figure out why I read you as town and what I was thinking regarding specific posts, but you never made a point of this being so important to you (presumeably because you were hoping for this particular scenario to base a push on).

[buldermar]

"but it does stand out to me how you were trying to paint me as waffling" The deadline is in 24 hrs and you are the 1) only player not to cast a vote today or 2) make a definitive stance on where you are leaning.

If that's not waffling, I don't know what is.

So you find it better to constantly be changing your opinion and possibly contribute to an accidental hammer? I've never understood MS's obsession with votes, it's quite retarded. Only votes that actually leads to a lynch counts for anything.

Consider my vote on rem for trying to setup a mislynch of me tomorrow based on a multitude of straw men. There is also the possibility that he actually thought he did hammer and was just trying to quickly manipulate mollie prior to Majiffy closing the day with what he had already planned for tomorrow - havn't looked into it.

Remembrance (L-2): I Am Innocent
I Am Innocent (L-2): SE-Asians
buldermar (L-1): Remembrance, pirate mollie

Not Voting: buldermar

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.
Deadline is on Sunday, June 16th at 8:00 PM EST.

[buldermar]

Actually, fuck it. I don't even need to make sure I don't hammer.

VOTE: Rem

Reading the rest now as well.

[buldermar]

Should be noted that his revised plan outted the docs, which is worse than Nacho's plan.

What??

1) How so? Prove it.
2) If so, why didn't you point it out until now?

[buldermar]

Bulder, come out come out wherever you are...

I'm here. I was here yesterday as well, but there was major server lag.

[buldermar]

you hammer after asking a question of buldey in which he has had no time to answer

Rem didn't subsequently deny hammering, which leads me to conclude that he did indeed think he hammered.

[buldermar]

Oh well.

I think Buldermar is the last scum

personally. He forgets way to much and it sticks to what he imagines himself to be as scum, someone who doesn't say anything that is necessarily scummy, yet somehow votes wrong when he should vote right. Plausible deniability is a scum tell and Buldermar has excelled at it. He has not pressured people, but has taken on a more fatalistic stance, he reneged on a read that he seemed absolutely sure of. And did it using someone he himself thought was scum along with most of the town and for good reason. And then reveals he had no special reason for the read and has given one of the worst reasons for thinking someone is town I've seen in a while. There is so much there, but he never looks in the right places or concentrates on the right things.

His two hunting contributions for scum hunting are things that someone had pointed out or said before. It doesn't feel right.

Part of me wanted to keep Se-Asians here and just ask him to vote Buldermar and then get IaI to vote Buldermar with me. But I couldn't do that because he just wasn't active enough. So this is it.

So you decide to hammer IAI and in the very same post point out that you think I am the last scum. Then you present reasons for thinking I'm scum that could have been presented a long time ago, but wasn't. Why?

[buldermar]

Do you realise we just claim PR? What cops are you talking about?

I mean I like Nacho's original suggestion.

My thoughts are as follows:

Cops investigate, and then claim next day. No discussion about that.

Docs have two jobs, try to successfully protect, and stay silent. Why stay silent, because I'd rather have a N2 Doc get killed N3 than a N3 or N4 or N5 cop. And if a N2 Doc outs himself D2, that ain't gonna happen.

Going forward, Docs don't claim.

SE-Asians (L-4): I Am Innocent, Human Destroyer, kuror0
buldermar (L-6): SE-Asians
borkjerfkin (L-6): pirate mollie
Wisdom (L-3): Nachomamma8, buldermar, borkjerfkin, Fate
Fate (L-4): mantisdreamz, Remembrance, Wisdom

Not Voting: AngelusW

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline is April 13th at 9:30 PM EST

For bulder

Alright, and how was my strategy inferior?

[buldermar]

It is of my opinion that:

Docs have two jobs, try to successfully protect, and stay silent. Why stay silent, because I'd rather have a N2 Doc get killed N3 than a N3 or N4 or N5 cop. And if a N2 Doc outs himself D2, that ain't gonna happen.

Your method only focuses on the 1st part of that (successfully protect), not the second (stay silent).

I hope we can agree on the premise that proof and opinion are two very different matters.

Remembrance (L-1): I Am Innocent, buldermar
I Am Innocent (L-2): SE-Asians
buldermar (L-1): Remembrance, pirate mollie

Not Voting:

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.
Deadline is on Sunday, June 16th at 8:00 PM EST.

[buldermar]

If does point to a town alignment when a town-hydra specifically is more likely to do something as a joke than is a scum-hydra. It isn't the only thing regarding him. We were talking about one thing specifically, which I found, and now you're holding it against me that I didn't find other things as well that you never asked for and I never saw an incentive to find.

Using this reasoning to be 100% confident of a town read is ridiculous. And there was no further incentive because you barely mentioned Se-Asians, you barely made cases any cases for people including him.

I'm not using it as a 100% confidence, but I do feel it weights strongly.

I rarely make cases because cases are fucking retarded.

[buldermar]

You barely pushed for it.

"It sounds like" is just as easy a push as anything else "Well, actually I misinterpreted it" is the easiest thing to back out of in the world.

furthermore you also accused IaI of "sounding like"

We can't both be scum Buldermar.

Yeah, about that... I actually wrote a post in frustration about you and him both looking scum. I know both of you can't be, but on that same token it doesn't matter at all to me which one of you are scum and which one isn't as long as both of mollie and Asians are town, which I'm convinced is the case. It only matters to the extent that I can be a possible mislynch.

[buldermar]

This isn't the product of someone who is actually thinking of what they're doing as town. Simply deciding what they need to do to win as scum. He used the logic that he himself disagreed with earlier in the game to renege on his town read of me. He consistently challenged players that had me as scum or suspected me, yet now I learn he had nothing in particular that made him have that belief. Why? What is the purpose of doing that? Why did he invite me to a town block when he had nothing substantial the whole game that warranted that conviction?

You are making up something again. This time you're making up that I did not have something substantial because I cannot currently remember one particular post. I'm sure that if I go back, I can figure out why I read you as town and what I was thinking regarding specific posts, but you never made a point of this being so important to you (presumeably because you were hoping for this particular scenario to base a push on).

Actually, you can't remember a variety of posts.

I don't think this is true, but I will say that my memory and recall ability for this and other games that were ongoing during my exams has been exceptionally poor compared to what it usually is. That's what a continuous elevation of glucocorticoids does to you - among other things. Anyway, that's not to be an excuse. I insist that my memory is sufficient so please point out with respect to what in particular you think that I didn't remember something I should have.

[buldermar]

"I was not hoping for"

I didn't imagine you would have nothing. Who would expect that?

You didn't imagine that I didn't have any particular post ready to back up my previous town read of you? Who the fuck even does that? Do you personally keep a list? This is absolute bullshit from you - not necessarily scum-motivated, but certainly bullshit, and I refuse to believe you don't know it yourself if you stop up for a second and think about it.

[buldermar]

You've been in this game for 3 months.

All the more reason not to have taken note of specific posts compared to developing a read encompassing the entire trajectory of another player.

[buldermar]

"but it does stand out to me how you were trying to paint me as waffling" The deadline is in 24 hrs and you are the 1) only player not to cast a vote today or 2) make a definitive stance on where you are leaning.

If that's not waffling, I don't know what is.

So you find it better to constantly be changing your opinion and possibly contribute to an accidental hammer? I've never understood MS's obsession with votes, it's quite retarded. Only votes that actually leads to a lynch counts for anything.

Consider my vote on rem for trying to setup a mislynch of me tomorrow based on a multitude of straw men. There is also the possibility that he actually thought he did hammer and was just trying to quickly manipulate mollie prior to Majiffy closing the day with what he had already planned for tomorrow - havn't looked into it.

Remembrance (L-2): I Am Innocent
I Am Innocent (L-2): SE-Asians
buldermar (L-1): Remembrance, pirate mollie

Not Voting: buldermar

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.
Deadline is on Sunday, June 16th at 8:00 PM EST.

If you haven't even looked at it. Then how can you confirm or deny something or even speculate on it.

I can list it as a possibility - something to look into. And FWIW I subsequently did look into it, and it did appear that you thought you were hammering, which strongly suggests that you're scum for simultanously making a case against me.

[buldermar]

You concentrated on a plan, forgot things, accused IaI via soft pushes after attacking you, asked IaI for a case which you never and continue not to look at and while still not looking at it prioritize voting me over the person you thought scum slipped yesterday.

I did concentrate on a plan initially, which I still think was a good thing.

I have forgotten things - and I'm sure you have as well if I asked you some of the questions you have asked me and you would answer them as truthfully without reading up on it first.

I wasn't accusing IAI via soft-pushes, I thought he made a scum-slip and I'm still not convinced that he didn't.

I did ask him for a case and it is true that I have not looked at it. It is also true that I should have looked at it by now. I don't have an excuse, I just don't feel like it and no amount of pressure from you is going to make me do something I don't feel like doing, so suck it up.

I have prioritized voting you over the person I thought scum slipped yesterday because your trajectory for today has been incredible scummy. In particular, it seems like you're setting yourself up for mislynching me tomorrow while getting rid of IAI today (which in turn makes IAI all the more likely to be town).

[buldermar]

Buldermar's case for Se-Asians is strange. I've pointed out things that make Se-Asians most likely town, but Buldermar didn't, Nothing in that quote actually points to a town alignment, the information just points to the possibility that he joked around about his fake claim, yet he satisfied himself with it and then used that to town read him (to the point of excluding him as a possibility) he then goes on to compliment him for a "brilliant" plan that he won't elaborate on. It might not be what Se was thinking(or if Se-Asians even had a plan at all), it is essentially an under the table compliment that is untraceable.

If does point to a town alignment when a town-hydra specifically is more likely to do something as a joke than is a scum-hydra. It isn't the only thing regarding him. We were talking about one thing specifically, which I found, and now you're holding it against me that I didn't find other things as well that you never asked for and I never saw an incentive to find.

I didn't say it was a plan IIRC, but if I did use the word plan that was misleading. He is doing a brilliant thing in announcing that he is protecting mollie because it frees him up to protect others as well while still guaranteeing that mollie isn't nk'ed because scum can't know for sure whether he actually protects mollie 100% of the time or some lower percentage of the time. I was positive that this is what he intended to do because he phrased his post like "actually I'M PROTECTING MOLLIE" or something like that with emphasis on protecting mollie.

Fuck you for pushing this retarded point of me giving him some sort of under the table compliment.

Awesome. This is way more in line with your scum meta.

Really? I'm pretty sure I'd tell you to fuck yourself as either alignment when you're doing something that retarded.

[buldermar]

Buldermar that plan of Se's is far from Brilliant. That's standard doc play. /:

The brilliant part is not talking about it... you know, the part you spoiled.

[buldermar]

You know my policy on this already Buldermar. I don't pressure people that don't have the time.

That's bullshit because my exams were over at the time you wrote that post and I had already begun posting again.

[buldermar]

mollie, I'm going to show you exactly what it is rem is doing because it's how I caught someone in a previous game we played in as well.

[buldermar]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p4473073

Please have a look and tell me if it seems familiar to you as well.

[buldermar]

Then he has.
And there is no point continuing this conversation further. Since he can hammer for the win tomorrow.

VOTE: IaI

I don't think IaI is scum. And I think we just lost. His dissatisfaction and anger at his plans being ignored seems no less genuine than it was originally.

However it means nothing if you won't reconsider Mollie. None of it means anything.

3 months to vote someone I don't think is scum so I can get hammered by PoE.

*sigh*

Oh well. I think Buldermar is the last scum personally. He forgets way to much and it sticks to what he imagines himself to be as scum, someone who doesn't say anything that is necessarily scummy, yet somehow votes wrong when he should vote right. Plausible deniability is a scum tell and Buldermar has excelled at it. He has not pressured people, but has taken on a more fatalistic stance, he reneged on a read that he seemed absolutely sure of. And did it using someone he himself thought was scum along with most of the town and for good reason. And then reveals he had no special reason for the read and has given one of the worst reasons for thinking someone is town I've seen in a while. There is so much there, but he never looks in the right places or concentrates on the right things.

His two hunting contributions for scum hunting are things that someone had pointed out or said before. It doesn't feel right.

Part of me wanted to keep Se-Asians here and just ask him to vote Buldermar and then get IaI to vote Buldermar with me. But I couldn't do that because he just wasn't active enough. So this is it.

Then look at the post above. It's like the exact same scum-slip.

[buldermar]

We can lynch me first as long as rem goes tomorrow, I'm confident enough that he's scum.

[buldermar]

If does point to a town alignment when a town-hydra specifically is more likely to do something as a joke than is a scum-hydra. It isn't the only thing regarding him. We were talking about one thing specifically, which I found, and now you're holding it against me that I didn't find other things as well that you never asked for and I never saw an incentive to find.

Using this reasoning to be 100% confident of a town read is ridiculous. And there was no further incentive because you barely mentioned Se-Asians, you barely made cases any cases for people including him.

I'm not using it as a 100% confidence, but I do feel it weights strongly.

I rarely make cases because cases are fucking retarded

.

since when?

I have seen you make great cases

Since I had a debate about it with Jake in that game where he death-tunnelled me and I was town. The issue with cases is that more often than not you go ISO a player with a priori assumptions about that players alignment and selectively find the posts that support your hypothesis of that players alignment. Instead, what you want to do is thoroughly read through a players trajectory and attempt to decide if it makes the most sense for that trajectory to come from town or to come from scum.

It may be that we're arguing semantics more than anything, but I feel like the term "cases" often calls for a line of thought in which you first have an idea that a particular player is scum and then, only subsequently, ISO that player and selectively look for scummy posts from that player. That's backwards and it falls victim of what is commonly referred to as confirmation bias.

Makes sense?

[buldermar]

Also, thanks for the compliment mollie *hugs* xD

[buldermar]

VOTE: IAI

gg

[buldermar]

Majiffy, you may link to the scum QT. I used it the first night I was alone for thoughts.

[buldermar]

I had forgotten Asians was a doc, though, so I planned to have him in endgame with IAI instead of mollie initially.

[buldermar]

I thought it was over when Rem started scum reading me.