Mini 1453: JobPick Mafia

[d3x]

Vote:Kdub

[d3x]

I like this...

Vote:BRO

[d3x]

Against MC, but I don't think he's Scum for suggesting it.

[d3x]

Right on... posting away!!!

BRO's p39 is odd with the 'nothing happening' bit. I doesn't like. p41 is worse.

mike's Vote is meh.

@d3x please give real reasons. "I like this" is not a reason that makes me think your vote for me is town-motivated.

No. Also, I don't feel the need to explain myself so you can TownRead me while I'm Voting you. Further, mischaracterizing my Vote as having no reason is scummy. I listed a reason. I liked what JW was building on you. I like it even more now that I'm caught up...

p64 is solid Town.

OMGUS a'hoy! Seriously. We can Lynch now.

Guille/d3 are good scummate candidates

He says after Voting mike...

MM's p73 is bad. Not only is it fence-sitty, it's taking an easy shot but not really standing behind it... like at all.

my vote on notscience is now serious

This may sound hypocritical, but build a case. This post looks uber scummy. I'm seeing BRO/MM at this juncture.

Ftr, I have Town-Townish reads on everyone on the Wagon currently. I think BRO is telegraphing...

[d3x]

Largely because I felt the same way. I've had a strong Town read on JW since his 1st post.

[d3x]

I don't think that sentence makes any logical sense. Could you rephrase, plz?

[d3x]

This is a very easy thing for both town and scum to say, so sheeping it could have either motivation.

Ummm... k? So if it's Null, why bring it up like it has meaning?

If a thing that seems like an AtE or AtF isn't either, then it's a _________.

Fill in the blank.

Assuming I'm being honest, what might I be getting at. You're a smart guy, I assume. You should be able to piece this together, or you are scum and don't want to piece it together.

As funny as this is about to sound, you have no reason to think I'm a "smart guy". Also, I don't assume you're being honest. I assume you're doing exactly what JW suggested.

I know what you're trying to get me to say, but as I'm against MCing in any for at this juncture {see previous post}, I'm leaving that shit alone.

[d3x]

I'm against MCing in any form at this juncture

[d3x]

OK even i know that isn't solid town, why are you calling me solid town for that post?

Meh, it was an accumulation of your posting. I feel that p64 is a solid TownPost, though. You and others are free to disagree all you want.

[d3x]

Let's stop discussion on Roles and setup spec, k? Thx.

[d3x]

I am still hugely against a flavor claim.

I forgot about this. How can you be against a MassClaim {even flavor only} and then push to consolidate SoftClaims?

Lynch now, plz. The longer this bullshit conversation about Claims is allowed to go on, the higher chance someone will drop too hard of a Tell to setup the NK.

[d3x]

mike's Vote is meh.

Ftr, I have Town-Townish reads on everyone on the Wagon currently. I think BRO is telegraphing...

Does not compute.

Sure it does. Meh =/= scummy, just meh. I wasn't a huge fan, but I was fine with it. Between said Vote and my post, I gained a few Town points. In case you were wondering, he's the weakest read on there {Null leaning Town}.

[d3x]

I'll be able to catchup tomorrow night.

[d3x]

Seriously, this guy has seen me play as scum, he knows i can be a good scum player, and that thinking the same thing isn't a reason to town read me.

I'm sorry JW, I mean no offense, but get over yourself... lol. What I've seen is a single game where you played really carefully and raged a few times. The feel of your play there and your play here are pretty night and day, imo. It's partially due to that game that I have a TownRead on you here. This is a really odd sentiment and reason to go on the offensive, imo. Nothing I've read to this point has Scum written on it, but you've just earned a second look.

Look at all the stuff he's done guys! Oh wait, he's done UTTERLY nothing.

Eat me. Seriously. Where have I been waving a flag saying I've done a bunch of things to help the Town? You're just being a douche for douche's sake and I'd thank you to stop it.

Since when can your first post (9/10 the one in the RVS stage) give you a STRONG read on someone?

Since I've been able to formulate opinions on people. Ftr- JW's 1st post has more than enough content to make an alignment call and saying it's RVS is a gross mischaracterization.

The fact that ns didn't change his Vote based off of a Reads List that has multiple players listed as scummier than his current Vote says Scum to me.

ns's p214 just packs on the Scum. After being called out for being fence-sitty, he throws a Vote that is straight up contradictory to his own List.

jacob- Null. All he's said ANYTHING about is the Flavor claim. Actually game comments please?

Atm, I'm thinking it's d3x, gulle, and Jacob are my top scumreads atm.

MM- Why do you keep calling me dix?

I'm interested in both/and/or BRO and ns flipping. As he's closer to the noose...

UnVote/Vote:notscience

[d3x]

Combined with throwing his recently posted Reads List out the window to Vote someone he had listed as Null over the ~5 Scum Leaning players, yeah. I find contradictions pretty scummy.

I didn't find anything really remarkably Town in his Iso, either. That and he's closer to a Lynch than my other main ScumRead...

[d3x]

So, d3x. How I see a lurker changes after 30 posts and that means I'm scum? Coolstory.

The problem is, that lurker posted a single time in that 30 post expanse and you didn't say

anything

about it at all. You didn't mention him in your intervening posts, you didn't say anything about how his post changed your read, you have yet to make a case for him aside from 'he's pushing a flavor Claim and nothing else'. Are you telling me that his

1 post

made your read go from Null to the #1 Scum Read, especially over reads you should legitimately have as Scum? Perhaps you'd like to let us in on that thought process?

And you seem to have that mistaken for douchery, it's really sarcasm. You just don't like it's directed at you and true.

Sarcastic or not, you were being a douche. I dislike players who are purposefully antagonistic to try and get a rise out of me, and that's exactly what you were doing. I've noticed this is a trend that's come up since I've returned from hiatus and I think it's bullshit. Frankly I'm tired of it and I find no joy in being poked at just to get a reaction.

[d3x]

The combo posting of ns's p292 and p297 is laughable. A ScumRead Votes another ScumRead and the comment is 'he's wrong about me' until someone calls the Vote scummy. Then, it's suddenly scummy and he has followup questions... lol.

[d3x]

mbf- I thought you had me tilting Scum...?

[d3x]

Do you have a third scumread?

Appologies, I must have forgotten/missed this. MM looks pretty bad. He's riding Votes w/o building any semblance of case at all, really. His Iso stinks.

[d3x]

I just realized we have 5 players who have posted 10 or less times. Chief among them, a player who has posted 2 times out of 13 fucking pages.

@ns- Who is scummier and why... grey, Iec, or guille?

p.edit- What is that in reference to, mbf?

[d3x]

d3x, why do you still want to lynch BRO? Is it still because of the stuff earlier in the game?

Yes.

Even though d3x's accusation here is kind of a stretch

What is the stretch, exactly?

[d3x]

Popping in to Claim because there won't be time later {less than 2 days to deadline}.

I'm the Assistant Office Manager. I'm a modified Tracker. My target will know I Tracked them and they have a chance to complain about me to the boss. If they do, I become VT.

[d3x]

It was hands down, the job I've most loved {though mainly for the crew I had around me}. You don't have to worry about the full brunt of the responsibility, but you have 90% of the preks

In game relevant news...

Does anyone have experience with IecScum? I'm having a hard time believing he's this obv as Scum. Don't get me wrong, he's not doing us any favors, but I think we probably have ~2 Active Scum and 1 Lurker {or 1 and 1 with 3rd party}. Iec doesn't feel like he fits the slot, imo.

I'd be happiest with a MMLynch if not ns, at this point.

[d3x]

Hey ns... this.

@ns- Who is scummier and why... grey, Iec, or guille

[d3x]

IIRC, d3x pretty much ignores MBF despite his salience (at least until after my post where I make note of this).

When did I stop ignoring mike? I thought I mostly have kept on doing as such. And where did you point out said fact?

[d3x]

Hey ns... this.

@ns- Who is scummier and why... grey, Iec, or guille

Also...

How convenient. On the chopping block, has hardly done anything for the town, and now is replacing. Woo.

Do you find Scum, Town, or Null motivation behind this, ns?

@MM351- What kind of question is that?

[d3x]

Lmao... Apparently, if JW says argues for being Scum, I should listen to him...

@JS- If you've read the thread, you shouldn't be surprised. What's up?

Also, I hate you, whoever you are...

[d3x]

d3x, are you implying that you were blocked? Please state so outright?

I was not Blocked Last Night and that should be evident by certain interactions. The Scum team do have a RoleBlocker of sorts {unless we have a moron Town RB'er, that is}. I'm not saying any more on the subject at this point, but I will probably by the End of the Day.

Not liking d3x still (not convinced that can't be a scumrole).

Then why this...

UNVOTE: d3x

...with no followup on your thoughts about me still being potential Scum?

[d3x]

Oh, and for sure JW wasn't a Mafia Kill. If Traitors are targetted for the NK by Scum, they flip sides and become full Scum. I'm not too sure what a Traitor in a 13p says for setup, though.

Final thoughts, I highly doubt JS is Scum. Discuss...

...

Ok, I lied. There's one more thing. I really don't like Kdub's p449 and I think I'll start there.

Vote: Kdub

ftr- I don't really care for sirdan's p450 or p452 either, though...

[d3x]

I am short on time, atm. This is the shorthand version.

2. D3x, you've got some explaining to do.

@JS- If you've read the thread, you shouldn't be surprised. What's up?

This is who I Tracked and he confirmed it immediately. I'm rather surprised that no one caught the interaction and am sad.

Also, I hate you, whoever you are...

I was not Blocked Last Night and that should be evident by certain interactions.

The Scum team do have a RoleBlocker of sorts

I am Blocked Tomorrow Night due to a poker hand I received Last Night. I see no reason why Town would delay Block me. I'll give more details when I get the chance later tonight.

Final thoughts, I highly doubt JS is Scum.

He didn't report me and I see no reason Scum wouldn't. Also, reasons.

Finally, Iec may have thought I Tracked him and forgotten that he'd have received ModConfirmation.

[d3x]

Oh, and sirdan...

You don't like my 452, which votes kdub for the exact same reason you are doing? You are talking out of your ass sir.

Kdub is probably scum too, calling out two people, buddying a third one and voting a fourth one still. Also my gut says he's scum. I wouldn't suggest lynching kdub today though, I think it's a better idea to focus on the people at hand that aren't really contributing

and

are scum(my). Such as Iecerint, JacobSavage.

MBF has somewhat gone off my scumdar for now, as has noscience.

This is p452 in its entirity. Kindly point out your Vote or stfu...

talking out of my ass... lol

[d3x]

I am a bit at a loss here as to what 'reporting' means here. Someone care to explain?

My target will know I Tracked them and they have a chance to complain about me to the boss. If they do, I become VT.

Re: the delayed RB thing. I was dealt a hand of poker. I could raise or fold based off a generic description of the strength of my hand. If I raised and won, the dealer would lose the ability. If I raised and lost, I'd lose my Tracking ability. If I folded, I'd be Blocked for the following Night. I didn't like my chances with the hand and there's a 0% chance Town would have that Role/use it on the Tracker.

[d3x]

Considering it's also a Vanilla-izer... yeah, I'd say so.

[d3x]

We have ~5 days left and JS should not be the Lynch. I'm meh about Iec. Kdub is better than this, I'm telling you guys, he should be run up. I don't like the amount of digging he's doing into others' Roles. There are some obv things that I'm saying that he should be picking up on, but isn't. There's a bit of CogDis from him that I can't quite go into atm. He also seems to be playing around the edges, imo.

I'm rereading Today...

I really don't like that Kdub's Vote on JS comes after 3-4 people come out with ScumVibes on him. Kdub could've legit Voted in p433, but it feels like he wanted to get a better lay of the land before Voting.

The irony in sirdan's p452 makes me lol. He follows Kdub's Vote onto JS. He then says Kdub's probScum for pointing at multiple players, yet Voting another option all the while doing the same thing.

I like guille's p454 and the exchange that follows. I would be fine with a ns Lynch Today if no one's going to listen to me re: Kdub.

The problem is, that lurker posted a single time in that 30 post expanse and you didn't say anything about it at all. You didn't mention him in your intervening posts, you didn't say anything about how his post changed your read, you have yet to make a case for him aside from 'he's pushing a flavor Claim and nothing else'. Are you telling me that his 1 post made your read go from Null to the #1 Scum Read, especially over reads you should legitimately have as Scum? Perhaps you'd like to let us in on that thought process?

They aren't posting, but I'm sure that they are going to get prodded and step it the fuck or replace out so going on a lurker rampage right now seemed like odd timing. You're also not giving a whole lot of content, so...?

If you'll look closely, I wasn't going after Lurkers. I was pointing out that ns's flip on his read of JS. Your point doesn't make any sense in context to what you've quoted...

You don't like my 452, which votes kdub for the exact same reason you are doing? You are talking out of your ass sir.

This is a bit of a stretch. I didn't say why I was Voting for Kdub aside from not liking the post. I have gone a bit more in depth above on the subject.

p.edit- I'm assuming that whatever Iec did gives the Targetted player the head's up that they've been Targetted {ala my Track and the Scum Delayed RB}.

I want D3x's results. I figure that can provide us some good information.

Feels like nervous Scum to me...

Can you talk about this poker mechanic more?

Upon losing the poker hand, they or I become Vanilla. There is no indication of alignment {ala VT}. That is about as close as I can get while still summarizing.

[d3x]

So you think Kdub is hard Bussing JS, then?

[d3x]

No one is listening. No one is reading between the lines. I feel like I don't have much of an option at this point. Fine, let's do this shit the hard way.

Did anyone protect guille Last Night?

[d3x]

@ns... I'm going to try and be nice. What is my Role?

[d3x]

I'm the fucking Tracker, as Claimed.

@everyone on the Wagon- The only way JS is Scum is if there was a Doc Protect on Guille, now fucking UnVote him.

[d3x]

Yup, one Blocked me, one (traitor) died, and one almost assuredly tried to Kill someone. I don't think we have 3+1 in a 13p. Also, until we have confirmation thatno one protected guille, nothing should be back on. This needs to happen quick, though. Time is short.

[d3x]

3+1 is back on!

[d3x]

You've read the thread, right? The poker hand delay block that goes in Tonight?

[d3x]

I am short on time, atm. This is the shorthand version.

2. D3x, you've got some explaining to do.

@JS- If you've read the thread, you shouldn't be surprised. What's up?

This is who I Tracked and he confirmed it immediately. I'm rather surprised that no one caught the interaction and am sad.

Also, I hate you, whoever you are...

I was not Blocked Last Night and that should be evident by certain interactions.

The Scum team do have a RoleBlocker of sorts

I am Blocked Tomorrow Night due to a poker hand I received Last Night. I see no reason why Town would delay Block me. I'll give more details when I get the chance later tonight.

Final thoughts, I highly doubt JS is Scum.

He didn't report me and I see no reason Scum wouldn't. Also, reasons.

Finally, Iec may have thought I Tracked him and forgotten that he'd have received ModConfirmation.

[d3x]

My Role doesn't specify when my Target will be told, but I'd assume it happened when D2 started. That's when I received my results and when I got the poker hand stuff (same pm).

[d3x]

I don't think it means that at all. I received my results pm when D2 started. I'd assume he received the results (ie- the complaint chance) around then as well.

[d3x]

Ftr- I didn't receive a time limit for when I had to decide on the poker hand, I just responded. I also didn't receive any sort of confirmation on my decision, in case that matters.

[d3x]

No.

[d3x]

No.

[d3x]

I am a bit at a loss here as to what 'reporting' means here. Someone care to explain?

My target will know I Tracked them and they have a chance to complain about me to the boss. If they do, I become VT.

Re: the delayed RB thing. I was dealt a hand of poker. I could raise or fold based off a generic description of the strength of my hand. If I raised and won, the dealer would lose the ability. If I raised and lost, I'd lose my Tracking ability. If I folded, I'd be Blocked for the following Night. I didn't like my chances with the hand and there's a 0% chance Town would have that Role/use it on the Tracker.

[d3x]

I'm rather surprised you missed all of this, Iec. How much would you say you've been skimming as opposed to reading?

[d3x]

Also-

Does anyone else feel like this is PR-mania? We've had so many prs claim, so many potential claims, etc.

You mean aside form the flipped VT? Now shut up. This is the kind of generic RoleFishing that hurts us. What is the beneft from your last 2 posts?

For the record, I'm not wanting the Protective Role to Claim anything unless they

specifically

Targetted guille.

[d3x]

Can you talk about this poker mechanic more?

Upon losing the poker hand, they or I become Vanilla. There is no indication of alignment {ala VT}. That is about as close as I can get while still summarizing.

Vanilla is Vanilla is Vanilla, no abilities, no nothing.

In 13p is 3 or 4 scum with a traitor more likely?

In a 13p, 3 Scum are the norm {1 or 2 PRs and a 'Vanilla' Scum}. Having a Traitor makes me think we are dealing with 2x Mafia PRs and the Traitor being a PR to balance against a beefy Town.

[d3x]

@ns- What happens if MM comes in and Claims PR? Do you switch over to someone else and wait for them to Claim, etc?

[d3x]

@ns- What's the scummiest thing about MM? What makes him a superior Lynch over anyone else?

[d3x]

So, yeah. d3x, you have been rolefishing, stop trying to say I have.

This bothers me. ns just asked an open ended question about people thinking this may/may not be RoleMadness. Any answer to this question reveals info about the answeree. Trying to paint what I did as anything but proTown by this statement is bs as well. I was asking for a Doc to step up if and only if they Targetted guille, which would've gotten us a pretty solid lead on Scum. If no Doc stepped up to Claim, stopping a probable Town PR Lurker from getting MisLynched carries just about as much proTown goodness.

BRO is all but off my ScumDar, ftr.

OilT is probTown, but I'm not sold.

ns's p621 is terribad.

no sane scum would either since it's tantamount to claiming scum.

Unless I just Tracked them to the NK. They're toast either way, so why not rid themselves of the Tracker?

Bah, this game is constantly messing with my reads. Now I'm convincing myself that MM is a better lynch today.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: MM

This bothers me to no end. I'm feeling Kdub/ns at this juncture.

N00bCard is scummy. I don't care if Iec posed the question.

D3x, are you voting Kdub for any reasons that aren't non-specific sketchiness?

This is kind of tricky. I have really bad feelings about him. Not picking up on something as obv as this...

Final thoughts, I highly doubt JS is Scum.

He didn't report me and I see no reason Scum wouldn't. Also, reasons.

That's your reason for why Jacob is not scum? No sane scum player would have reported you last night, do you see why?

Gives me serious pause. In my post, I call attention to being the Tracker and I say the ambiguous "Also, reasons" and he didn't put 2 and 2 together? I don't know how I could've made it easier aside from finally saying he was a PR. Kdub is better than that, imo. He was riding an easy Wagon and not reading into the discussion

he

was carrying on.

This and ns's follow-up answers are unbelievable. For someone who's so antiFishing, he has no problem running people up while close to deadline and just switching off when he outs a Role.

I don't know who to vote for anymore, so I'm just going to sheep D3x.

vote: Kdub

I definitely appreciate it. Follow me over here to be all you can be. We'll deal with Kdub later.

UnVote/Vote:notscience

[d3x]

I think I would slightly prefer Kdub because some of notscience's stuff feels too unselfconscious-y for scum

Look at it this way, a Kdub flip doesn't really give us much to work with. Most everyone's been rather noncommittal about him, and he hasn't really forward/firm on many reads aside from the popular Wagons.

ns on the other hand, will provide a wealth of knowledge. I'm predicting a Scum flip and I think we'll be in a lot better place with VCAs on him. If the worst should happen and he flips Town, that'll provide a healthy amount of info as well. People

have

taken a stand on him and iIRC, he has garnered more than a few Votes at different points in the game.

[d3x]

Oh, and I'm not liking the ease and off handedness of the MM Wagon. I don't have many warm fuzzies about him, but the fact that we're ultimately moving towards another Lurker Lynch feels super wrong to me. It may warrant looking at the previous Day's Lurker Lynch sized up to this one in the Morning.

[d3x]

Here's what we know...

vote count xiv

mvmafia

(7) - Oil Tycoons, guille2015,

JasonWazza

,

Mikeburnfire

, BROseidon, Kdub, Iecerint

Mikeburnfire

(3) - sirdanilot,

mvmafia

notscience

(1) - d3x
D3x (1) -

notscience

guille2015 (1) - JacobSavage

Not Voting: MeowMix

vote count 2.xiv

notscience

(6) - Iecerint, d3x,

notscience

, Oil Tycoons,

mikeburnfire

, BROseidon
MeowMix (3) - guille2015, Kdub, JacobSavage
Iecerint (1) - , MeowMix
JacobSavage (1) - sirdanilot

JW's Voting Record stands thusly... BRO, d3x, mbf, & mvm.

My thoughts are...
I doubt that Scum would be on both MisLynches, it'd be too easy to weed them out. That gives temporary reprieves to BRO, OT, & Iec. guille and Kdub both pushing jumped up Lurker Lynches both Days really sits poorly with me. That said, rereading MM's End of Day banter gives me big heebie-jeebies, too. He supports the ns Lynch here while quoting the 3way Wagon tie. He essentially CCs JS here but doesn't Vote him either. Finally he Votes him after the Hammer came down for insurance, though he 'doesn't know the VoteCount'.

d3x, Iecerint, please claim actions.

Really?

I really don't want to reveal what the dog does, but if I really have to I will.

If it clears multiple players, I say do it. If we can get a TownBlock going, I think our chances are a lot higher. If the Info is ultimately Null, keep it hidden.

I'll do a bit of rereading before placing my Vote, but it's a toss-up between MM and Kdub at this point.

[d3x]

well if you believe that NS is what he is, he's more valuable than I am considering I can do nothing at this point.

my flavour is school principal. my night action is...exactly the same JacobSavage's. like almost the exact same thing. I was given information that there was a senator and could target a player to see if they were or not. the only difference is that if I found him, I became a doublevoter.

and we found him, except we lynched him :c

[d3x]

lol... apparently, my phone didn't want to refresh.

[d3x]

Wait. Why did you use your PR with a Tracker in play if the Senator was already dead?

[d3x]

I thought I might as well try

Try what?

My role is one that I check to see if a player has a specific role name.
I know this role name to be town and that its in the game. Hence why I wanted the flavor claim
That rolename was the Senator.

Why on the very slim off chance that there was a second senator.

So let me get this straight... You have the Role 'Astronaut' that lets you Target someone to see if they're the Senator and you know that this Role is in the game and is Town, but when the Senator flipped, you assumed that there is the outside chance a 2nd Senator exists? Wouldn't that be directly contradicted by your Role PM?

[d3x]

Howdysauce, Kthx!

I'm a modified Tracker that's being Blocked since N2. N1 I Tracked JS to guile, but I initially thought this meant he couldn't be Scum due in part to a flipped Traitor and some kind of Blocked NK. I'm quickly changing my mind on the subject. Other stuff'll have to wait, the baby's acting up.

[d3x]

Vote:JacobSavage

Too many BP Roles and your Night Action reasoning is severely lacking.

If he flips Scum {anything but a Protective Scum Role}, guile is cleared.

[d3x]

I'm here and I'm grumpy. Who do you want to discuss?

[d3x]

I highly doubt it. It felt like TownKthx to me. He's a lot less smug as Scum, and this felt like him legit catching someone by outing himself.

[d3x]

Vote:Kdub

[d3x]

I suppose I'll wait a bit before re-placing it.

Why?

[d3x]

Not seeing a town motivation for

At the time when I voted it was the first vote on MM, but now it isn't.

Do you see a Scum motivation for it?

[d3x]

@Kthx- BRO was in charge of the dogs. I have a few suspicions, but I'm going to sit tight on them atm.

Should we mc yet?

To what end? Why does MC benefit Town at this juncture?

d3x, why Kdub over MeowMix?

I still feel that MM is largely a Lurker Lynch and I don't like them. I'll take a peek at his Iso tonight and think about it. If someone can put together a consice case, I'd give it some extra weight in my consideration.

I've asked a couple of times about the dogs and he simply ignored it.

Which fits with my theory, actually.

IIRC sirdanilot gave him a PM or something that showed him the breadcrumb.

What? Since when are players allowed to contact their replacements? If anything, that makes me paranoid about my hard TownKthx read. I usually Claim my BCs in the ScumQT in case my partners want to do anything with it. The reason I'm mostly discounting this, is that I know Kthx is the kind of player who reads his previous incarnation upon replacing in, just like I do. Knowing his RoleName, it's be ridonk easy to pick up the Claim.

ALSO, is there a reason why d3x didn't claim today?

Yeah, b/c I Claimed Yesterday. The fact that you are really keen on the subject {especially the why} makes me have Town feeling towards you, though. Scum already know what happened.

My contention is that two town PRs enabled by the same player is unlikely.

That'd be as unlikely as Town having 2 Bulletproof Roles {read-Kthx and JS}. Do you think Kthx is lying about his Role?

[d3x]

My predecessor BC'ed here:

^ You should know better mbf. Unvoting under pressure =/= offensive, it is being wishy-washy and I usually consider it a scum tell. I certainly do in this case. The point of this accusation of you is that by voting bro for unvoting jacob, you are essentially unvoting jacob yourself as well, meaning you are guilty to the same crime.

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

I'm assuming this is what you were thinking of. BC'ed not PM'ed.

[d3x]

Yeah, b/c I Claimed Yesterday.

I'm a modified Tracker that's being Blocked

since

N2.

Emphasis added. It's a delayed RB, so that means I was Blocked Yesterday->Last Night.

[d3x]

No, I got a result N1 {JS->guille}. I received my PM D2 with the hand of cards. I folded and was Blocked N2. I then received a PM D2 with the hand of cards. I folded and was Blocked N3. I have received my hand of cards and am not Claiming what I did as of yet.

[d3x]

@

Mod

- I know Night was in the middle of it, but can you do somethign about MM, plz? He hasn't posted in 11+ days {a cool week if you only count Today}.

[d3x]

@Kdub- Do you think Kthx is scummy or just using faulty logic?

[d3x]

...or both?

[d3x]

@

Mod

- Plz? Status on MM. You didn't mention it in your most recent VC...

[d3x]

Or we take the opportunity that the Mod gave us, don't Lynch anyone until the replacement has come in, and make an actual informed decision with all the pieces present. The problem with MM is that he's not here. Getting a deadline extension gives us a chance to actually get a read from MM's slot once they arrive.

UnVote

[d3x]

Why aren't you in here pushing someone for lynch?

Because I don't think we should move forward until we have a replacement for MM {and some content therein}. I don't like the idea of Lynching him straight up as I think that's a stupid idea {in my 1st game on site, we used this as Scum to move toward MyLo}. I'm not saying MM isn't Scum, but atm I don't see anything more provocative than a Lurker Lynch with a smattering of Outguess the Mod.

Regarding your plan, I don't really see a reason the Scum would care to follow it. While yes, the chance to get rid of you would be enticing, I don't see it as their optimal strat and I think they know it. We're 7p now with prob2 Scum left. Dodging the BP and the BG Tonight and Blocking me, they have no concern for being caught. If we MisLynch, they're pretty much assured to Kill freely and we'll be down to 3v2 Tomorrow. That said, I doubt they're worried about dropping you in 2 Days.

[d3x]

@Iec- Please link to the most concise & compelling MM case, plz.

[d3x]

You mean Iso61&62? That makes a lot more sense...

I Voted him b/c I Tracked him. His Claimed ability said he was looking for a player, not that it was compulsory. That player flipped D1. There was no reason for him to continue looking for anything, especially with a Town Tracker around to confuse.

[d3x]

Has everyone FullClaimed now? I have something I'd like to bounce off of everyone if it's done. If someone could put together a full list, I'd be much appreciative.

GUILLE2015:

All in due time my dear, all in due time...

[d3x]

guille is either Scum or SK. Discuss.

Vote:guille

[d3x]

I did. Just now. Discuss further.

[d3x]

Rescue Dogs and BP players plus the JW Kill. He should've been recruited if it was the Mafia Kill. I didn't want to push it since it may've been a Vig shot, but now that everyone's Claimed, there's no Vig. I started spec on it way back here.

[d3x]

He said he gets a JK if he Kills it, so... yeah.

[d3x]

My guess as to the Rescue Dog thing is that they are delayed Protects or some such thing. BRO didn't seem to leave any clues aside from the Disaster Avoidance thing. It's not a 100% sure thing, but that's my guess.

All I know is that BRO was Town, his Dogs are doing something that benefits Town, and guille Claimed to Kill one. The only Crumb BRO left us said they have a purpose and it sure doesn't seem like that purpose was to feed a proTown PR.

[d3x]

What about it? I don't neccessarily believe it, but I know there's no proTown reason to Kill a Confirmed NPC named 'Rescue Dog', esp after what ConfTownBRO said about them.

Listen, OT may or may not be Scum. I'm not leaning towards warm fuzzies on him, but guille

is not Town

. With almost no time left Today, I say we Lynch the person who is not Town and is

actively

trying to Kill the proTown NPCs.

[d3x]

BRO is ConfTown now that he's dead. That's what I'm saying. What possible proTown reason could you possibly have for Killing anything called a Rescue Dog? What did you do N1 & more importantly N2?

[d3x]

For clarification, you J/Ked JS N2?

[d3x]

Also, why'd you do nothing N1?

[d3x]

Shaddup Ceph...

[d3x]

What did you think would happen when you tried to 'harvest meat' from JS N2?

[d3x]

Lol, so you thought you were a Vig who turned into a JK? OK, that's perfectly logical.

Hammer away.

[d3x]

Ok, I'm here... and pissed once more.

I was indeed dealt the cards again last Night. I had chosen to fold Yesterday, so I was Blocked. Up until Yesterday, I was hoping we had a Vig or something else proTown Powerful and me eating the Block every Night was tying them up. It seems that's not the case.

Thoughts on players...
Kthx- Town. Because he is. His play's been TownKthx and his PR makes sense as Town.
Iec- Town. My concern way back was that maybe he was a Cult Leader, but that was squashed when whomever flipped Town after confirming to have received cabbage. I don't see Scum having a Fruit Vendor, so he's on the up and up.
OT- Null-Scum. I just don't feel TownNacho anywhere here at all. In playing with previous Hydras of the Nach, I could still clearly see him there. I'm just not feeling it here. I also am not thrilled by the Claim. It feels too much like a timely AtF.
Kdub- Scum. Points laid out previously, take them or leave them.
Ceph- Wild Card. I could honestly go either way. The Claim makes sense from a balance perspective to be Scum. I don't really see there being so damn many BPish Townies. Ceph hasn't been scummy, but MM definitely hadn't been obvTown.

Thought on NL...
I don't like it. While it's the strongest Town play in most scenarios, I just don't see Scum taking out one of the ?s, so while the LynchPool will diminish, I don't think it'll diminish in a way that best serves Town. I think we should Lynch and roll the dice. I'm happy with 2/3rds chances and if we lose on this... well there was some serious Town PR derpage that screwed us over anyway.

[d3x]

Vote:Kdub

[d3x]

@

Mod

- I'm Voting for Kdub.

[d3x]

Why not Kdub? What's the most compelling thing in the case on OT?

[d3x]

I guess kdub could claim getting cards, or actually get them.

This wouldn't matter, it's a delayed RB. He wouldn't be Blocked Tonight if he folded, he'd be Blocked Tomorrow Night.

Also I raised Today, so we'll see what happens. I don't know when I find out my result, but it'll pry be Tonight.

[d3x]

What would that matter, Iec? We don't have a Town Killing Role.

[d3x]

re: OT being Scum BP, that is...

[d3x]

@Kthx- dafuq? I was Targeted with the Gamble N1. Why are you saying that you Gambled?

[d3x]

Oh... I thought you were saying BulletProof... E'rebody's fucking BP around here...

[d3x]

No, he was hit with a new gamble, but he didn't fold this time.

Thank you Iec for making me not shoot myself. Go to bed Kthx.

You know, I meant to look that up, Iec. I'm not against an OT Lynch at this point.

[d3x]

@Kthx- Pretty much, yeah. I've essentially been in a PR 1v1 since N1. I've chosen not to play and thus be Blocked everytime excpet Today. I raised, so if my hand is better, they lose their RBer. If their hand's better, I lose my Tracking.

@Everybody wanting to NL, we have a Rescue Dog that 'prevents disaster'. We have one left. I'm assuming that if we NL Today, the dog'll bite it Tonight. We'll then be in the same place Tomorrow, without the safety net.

p-edit: Regardless of whether OT is telling the truth about his Role, there

is

a disaster out there, as is evidenced by BRO's 'Crumbing. What do you think about his reaction to the Disaster 'Crumb?

[d3x]

btw- Whomever loses the hand doesn't lose for that next Night, it's for keeps. If I'd have raised and lost after the 1st hand, I'd be VT and they'd have dealt to someone else N2.

[d3x]

If you want to keep crumbing, explain what you're talking about.

Doesn't sound like you're trying to get him to stop talking about it.

Vote:OT

@Kthx- Iec is Town. Leave him be.

[d3x]

It was impossible unless your Role had the didaster clause, as OT's supposedly does. Saying he was trying to stifle discussion and then saying 'unless you don't wanna' does not line up. That was OT's very next post I quoted, so unless they try and pull Hydra Dissonance...

[d3x]

Ffs Kthx... put your Vote back on OT. Kdub is his partner as evidenced by all the times I've said Kdub is Scum.

[d3x]

Seriously, why would you Vote someone in MyLo if you aren't ready for them to die?

[d3x]

So you think I'm scum with d3x now? v.v

Meh, the connections would be there. I've been against the MM Lynch for ages b/c I saw no real case against him other than Lurking.

[d3x]

obv. I'm just saying that it's not an impossible scenario as you seem to suggest.

However, it would be ridiculously tricky for me to actually be Scum. There would need to be a gambling mechanic that I {as Scum} would not have used all game just to setup my own FakeClaim while also having knowledge that JS targetted guille N1 with an ability that lets JS know that I specifically targetted him and then never used again as no one has since been told that I targetted them.

[d3x]

Yup, I Tracked Kdub to Cephrir.

Vote:Kdub

[d3x]

Damnit Kthx, read p1241 again with the knowledge that there's now only 1 Scum left. That Scum had no active ability. So I as the last Scum would have to be able to Track JS with a Gambling mechanic {proven to exist by your Role} that didn't do anything to JS, while letting JS know that I Targetted him. Seriously?

[d3x]

not kill dex, claim he got a poker hand and then claim it came from Ceph and thus he wouldn't be able to target him with a body guard?

Because it's a Delayed RoleBlock. Seriously dude, we're going to have words after this is done.

[d3x]

That was weird, it clipped the first part of the Quote. It should read...

Why not kill dex, claim he got a poker hand and then claim it came from Ceph and thus he wouldn't be able to target him with a body guard?

[d3x]

Kdub, explain the p1241 scenario.

[d3x]

Oh, and another thing.. why didn't anyone else the

entire game

say that they were Targetted by me? JS got confirmation that I Targetted him. Did I just decide not to use Scum's only active PR ever again?

[d3x]

@Kthx- Occam's Razor, man. Which makes more sense with the least complications in the conjecture above: that I am what I say (and all signs point to) or that I'm a handicapped JOAT who only had cross confirmation on a single ability? A JOAT is already handicapped by having everything as a 1shot, why add the cross confirmation? Also, why rattle the cage Yesterday? If I was so set for the ScumWin, why not just NL?

[d3x]

Regarding NL, I'd say...

Yup, I Tracked Kdub to Cephrir.

Vote:Kdub

[d3x]

Are you kidding me Kthx? Again, no indignation about Town being L-1 in EndGame? Just a theory that buys time and another Kill. That has you convinced?

[d3x]

d3x, if you were telling the truth, what is your explanation for why you have been left alive all game even though you were treated as "confirmed" town with an investigative ability for much of the game?

Not knowing if there was a Doc would be a great reason. This being essentially Role Madness, not knowing what other PRs were out there would be another. Considering I'd surely be the only Investigative Role {no GF pretty much means no Cop}, there's no reason not to keep Blocking me, especially after N1 when I didn't Gamble. There'd be no real reason why I wouldn't continue Folding. BRO makes perfect sense as a Scum Kill, he was throwing out Rescue Dogs that somehow would prevent Disaster and you had an unactivated Disaster on your team. Why are you trying to make it sound like that's a 'left field' Kill?

Why would you even entertain the idea of NL Today? If you're telling the truth, there's no way I'm Town, so why even bother stringing another Night out? What would you hope to gain as TownKdub NLing Today?

[d3x]

Oh, and regarding rushing a decision... you damn right I am. I Tracked Scum to the Kill. I have no reason to wait.

[d3x]

What do you hope to gain with NL? IEC is ConfTown now. It's either me or Kdub, so the only reason to NL is if the Vote is deadlocked. Tell me this, why would TownKdub want a NL?

[d3x]

If this somehow backfires, I'm going to be so fucking pissed at you, Kthx. Not to mention this is doing nothing but waste time. The game now lasts another freaking week...

Vote:No Lynch

Iec has the right of it, you just don't want the responsibility. The proof is in the fact that you're not thinking this through at all. You're just trying to find the most safe move instead of the right move. The fact that you are saying that Iec isn't Conf is ridiculous and I wish you could hear yourself without this freaking unjust paranoia over your head. Think about it. I Tracked Kdub to the Kill. He's saying that he didn't do it. That means it's either me or him. Period. No fucking way is Iec Scum in this scenario and the fact that you're even entertaining it makes me so freaking frustrated.

So I'll tell you how this shakes out. I'm going to Track you Tongiht, Kthx. That means you will get Confirmation that I'm a Tracker and that Kdub is lying, because there's no way in hell that he didn't receive a head's up about it. Kdub is Scum, Iec dies b/c he can't Kill you and he sure as hell can't Kill me since I'd flip Town. Congrats, you've drawn this game out.

[d3x]

Wait... I bet he reported me. That's his game, that's what the NL thing was about. I didn't find out that I was ok to act until Night settled in Last Night, so I bet that I won't know until Night hits Tonigth too. Kdub, you son of a bitch...

[d3x]

Asking if I'm correct about there being only 3 scenarios and those 3 scenarios not hurting town at all?

I don't know. I don't think there are any other scenarios, but w/e. You're vnot thinking about how to win, you're thinking about the safest play, which isn't the same thing.

Not to mention that it's either kdub playing very poorly or you playing a great scum game.

Or he's playing a caught ScumGame and this is his only option.

Also, Iec isn't conf-shit yet.

You infuriate me sometimes, you know that?

Oh, and a NL does serve a purpose. Hell, we could no lynch the rest of the game. If kdub is town and a body guard, Iec isn't dying either.

Except Iec isn't freaking Scum. It's me or Kdub, how many times do I have to tell you that?

[d3x]

Confused by some of your stuff...dex just null tracked Jacob N1 IIRC.

I sucessfully Tracked JS to guille, it wasn't Null.

Dex, what happened with cards?

Yup, I Tracked Kdub to Cephrir.

Vote:Kdub

More specifically, I raised and apparently Won as I was told that I could Track again Last Night.

[d3x]

Wait... I bet he reported me. That's his game, that's what the NL thing was about. I didn't find out that I was ok to act until Night settled in Last Night, so I bet that I won't know until Night hits Tonigth too. Kdub, you son of a bitch...

You didn't find out until that night? As in you received an explicit message from the mod that you did not get vanillaized?

Wrong. I didn't get the PM saying that I was ok to Track until Night started Last Night. Nice try, though. Why would I have gotten a PM about being Vanillaized if I haven't been able to Track since N1? Your plays are starting to get mixed up, Kdub.

Then what was this about:

Final thoughts, I highly doubt JS is Scum.

He didn't report me and I see no reason Scum wouldn't. Also, reasons.

This was from D2 (the night after you targeted Jacob). This sounds to me like you knew at this point that Jacob had decided to not report you, which would contradict what you just said.

Again, wrong. It was D2 yes, but I had been operating under the assumption that I'd be told immediately {or upon DayStart} if I'd been Vanillaized. But again, nice try.

Kthx and Iec, please take the time to think this through. Like I said, I know I'm fighting an uphill battle here given d3x's status throughout the game.

You mean like the time I was forced into Claiming D1 after going L-1? How is that my status 'all game'?

Here are the indisputable facts:
- d3x had a confirmable track ability, but has only been able to demonstrate it on N1.
- d3x has claimed to be roleblocked by a poker hand ability the whole time after N1, and nobody but him can confirm its existence.

3rd time's a charm, wrong. Kthx can Confirm this ability. He has a modifier stating that there is a gambling effect in play somewhere in the game.

- d3x supposedly decided to fold the whole time (rolebocked) until the final night, when he decides to raise, conveniently wins, and comes out with essentially a guilty result on the player he's been calling scum most of the game.

I didn't want to risk losing my investigative PR and letting the Scum go around RBing/Vanillaizing the rest of Town, so yeah I Folded the entire Game. As soon as a MC took place and I realized that I was the strongest PR, I Raised. It would've been worthless either way and since the RB was delayed, the Game would've been over by the time it's effects were felt anywhere else.

The only people with unconfirmable abilities going into last night were me, Cephrir, and Kthx. Kthx claimed bulletproof, so if I were scum, I wouldn't have been able to kill him, meaning I decided to kill the one player who I had a chance of getting lynched who couldn't clear themselves last night. You can argue WIFOM and all that, but that doesn't mean that Cephrir's death provides no information.

Considering you've managed to make it this far, I'd say it was a great ScumPlay. On top of that, you're conveniently leaving out the fact that Kthx was hard suspicious of Iec up to and including Today, so you could have garnered 3 Votes if I hadn't Tracked you Last Night. Not to mention that you had a chance I would've lost the Poker hand and not gotten a Track at all.

If this doesn't convince you, I guess I just have to tip my cap to d3x for a creative gambit (although I suspect Nacho might have come up with it).

Ouch, really? Why the slight here, Kdub? I have nothing but respect for you for stringing this along so far...

[d3x]

Oh, and

Vote:Kdub

That's why I suggested the possibility of d3x being a JOAT with the poker hand being one of his powers.

How would I know that someone had the Gambling modifier on their PR? I Claimed this before Kthx said anything.

[d3x]

OK so describe this sequence of mod PMs to me.

I Tracked JS N1. When D2 started, I received a single PM with my result and the Poker hand with instructions to Raise or Fold. This is where I would've expected all of the results to show up {if I had been Reported}. It didn't happen, thus I figured I was fine. This was later Confirmed by JS saying that he didn't Report me. I had no reason to think otherwise.

You then didn't receive any notification about anything until last night, when you were told you can track again?

Nope, I kept receiving Poker Hands and folding them, thus being RBed.

Sure, the gambling effect might actually be in the game, but you used it to come up with the roleblock excuse.

This is becoming the most convoluted JOAT in the history of Mafia...

Massclaim happened the night before (when guille was lynched). Why didn't you raise then?

There was still the chance you were telling the truth.

That doesn't mean people can't think about it and look at what is most likely.

What is 'most likely' is that Town has an Investigative Role. You're seriously trying to use Occam's Razor to say that I'm a Gimped JOAT and this 'theory' holds water? Listen, I know that you don't have any other play, but this is frustrating me to no end {as evidenced by the last few pages}.

[d3x]

I was working on a point by point on Kdub's most recent post and I still have most of it, but here's the part that I think is the most apt and should be all that is needed. If not, there's nothing more I can do and I'll just answer any questions not posed by Kdub.

This is becoming the most convoluted JOAT in the history of Mafia...

Not at all. It's a standard JOAT with multiple one-shot abilities, one of which is the poker thing, one of which is the tracker, and maybe some other stuff we don't know about. Rather than use the poker thing, you and your buddies came up with this plan to have you "roleblocked" every night after you proved your tracking power N1.

No, I would have to be a JOAT with a 1Shot Track, a 1Shot Gamble <something, I'm not too clear on what you think this is supposed to be>, and whatever else. I'd also have to know that someone in game was Nullified if I Targetted them with my 1Shot Gamble in order for this to be my 'SafeClaim'. I'd also have to have my ability{ies} Reportable by the Target{s} which JS confirmed would Vanillaize me. Mind you, this would be the only active PR that Scum have as far as I can tell, and it not only gives my Target my identity, it also allows them to Vanillaize me. That's pretty freaking nonstandard...

To be fair, I also could lose my BP to prostitution and there is no evidence of that being a PR.

I don't see what exactly this changes in the grand scheme of things. I fail to see the ramifications of the prostitution thing. I Claimed the GambleBlock before you said anything about losing your ability.

[d3x]

Bahahaha! You fools! I was the most complex JOAT in mafia history!


Nah, I'm a Town Tracker. Gg Town wins!

[d3x]

Huzzah!

[d3x]

Great game, Kdub. I can't believe you almost pulled that off. I have a lot of respect for your ScumGame.

GGs all around.

Thx for the Mod, Mod.