Mini 1491: WePick

[Architect of Thought]

I am not a hydra.

Toomai is a person or a mystical entity

TIP is town, he knows what's up.

Vote: Generic

for failing at voting.

There's already two wagons going at this point, why still stick to "RVS" votes? No comment on either of those wagons?

TIP faking a dayvig is cute. baldeagle's Guyett vote is terrible.

Vig-claim is stupid, but I'm not voting or lynching that. If he wants to claim vig 3 pages in, we direct his shots and see what happens.

vote: 1baldeagle1

[Architect of Thought]

Oh, thank GOD you shot TIP. I cannot stand newbies with a God complex. Him being a traitor is okay too, I guess.

Not really liking Who from his posts... he needs to post more for me to get a better read.

This case

1) That case is terrible, and Guyett already showed why
2) What about that case says townTIP to you
3) Where has townTIP done things like whatever you're about to answer in 2) before?

Oh god I'm not saying this is town TIP I have a scum read on TIP.

What I am saying is that what he accuses guyette of being scummy TIP can do as town.

So you think he's scum but you're calling his actions town.

Bandwagons onto eagle, too. Mmkay.

While I wait for eagle to catch up and post: VOTE: Shoe

[Architect of Thought]

I never called TIP town.

He was a scum read as I said.

I was saying TIP was accusing some one of doing stuff he does as town. (guyett)

not that he was doing town stuff himself.

Misread. Sorry. UNVOTE: purple

Architect's 210 gives me a negative feel. His congratulating the dayvig seems over the top, and he singles out Who as needing to post more when Who is more active than several players.

He's made 8 posts. Three of which came after mine. And I said that he needs to post more

in order for me to get a read

, not that he needs to post more. This is my third post; wouldn't that be hypocritical of me? He's asking a lot of questions or giving lots of information without really accusing anyone or giving much in the way of reads. So his posts seem off for now, until he posts more and (hopefully) is more useful.

Also:

And good point about scum not wanting to use their power on someone scummy enough to lynch. They could be hoping for towncred though, but I would agree that it is unlikely.

Seems kind of fence-sitty, for the record.

[Architect of Thought]

You and Who are probably two of the only people I'm considering voting at the moment.

On a related note, Guyett, Generic, and Pyro are not good votes.

[Architect of Thought]

Can we get a choice claim?

Not giving anything away other than

role

or

alignment

We have several already who have said.

Dude. I want to think you're town but holy shit, you're making me want to run you up for this.

[Architect of Thought]

LOL,

seriously, go ahead, but then I would have to call your push a scum tactic that wasted our lynch.

FOR CHIRST SAKE STOP FUCKING PARTIAL CLAIMING YOU RETARDED DIPSHITS.

PARTIAL CLAIMING DOESN'T GIVE US ANYTHING OF USE AND IT MAKES PRS MORE FUCKING OBVIOUS.

While I COMPLETELY agree, you're not doing much in this game other than shouting about the massclaim-y stuff. Thoughts on literally anything else?

This question usually sparks up conversation:

Are you happy with your role?

My answer: Not really.

...

Something useful, i'm trying to stop a partial claiming session that totally benefits scum, how is that not useful?

Oh, it's useful, but you should be doing other things too.

That should be who as in what people are town not who the player.

We should just lynch him so we don't have to put up with the "Who's on first?" schtick.

Oh man, that dopog wagon was sexy. I wish I was around to hammer that.

Pyro, Generic, Kdub, Who, Guyett, Shoe

Honorable mention to Stubbs who was around and did not put dopog at L-1.

So hey, who does everyone think the most likely scum is on this wagon?

[Architect of Thought]

Architect. Of those six people you list (including Stubbs) how many mafia do you think are amongst them?

And since you threw out the question, which would you say the scum are?

Two is a good guess. Maybe 3 given that it's a WePick and thus power-heavy (higher scumcount to make up for this). Probably Stubbs and someone on the wagon.

dopog's reactions seem pretty townie.

dopog, Guyett, Pyro get a pass for today. Townreads. I was gonna say eagle too, but I'm not liking eagle's recent posts:

"Guyett can be scum."
"Do you not believe Guyett's claim?"
"Scum can claim vig."
"So that's a yes?"
"Well I'm fine with voting dopog or Guyett. /vote dopog"

Seems fishy.

Other reads:
Kdub - reads as really townie, probably has the second best vote on the dopog wagon
Toomai - Null, leaning town
JasonWazza - null, has mostly yelled a lot and not done much else
Who - Completely null.
Generic - could be town, scum suspicions due to pick-fishing
The Purple Shoe - scum suspicions due to putting dopog at L-1
StubbsKVM - null-scum, lots of questions with little reads, most likely the off-wagon scum
1baldeagle1 - newbtown or scum, leaning latter ATM

Gonna wait another day or two to vote. Need to sort out if eagle is newbtown or scum (I'm bad at that) and don't want a dopog-speed lynch. Also, I'm waiting on hearing more from Pyro-"Town Leader"-technics.

[Architect of Thought]

~ @Acrhitect; Why aren't you putting your vote where your mouth is?

?
I think I explained why I'm not voting at the moment...

Pyro: how is Stubbs town?

I'd like Stubbs/Who/Jason wagons, somewhat in that order. Eagle is acceptable as a lynch if he's the only option at deadline, but I do like his Jason vote so that makes him a bit more townie in my eyes.

And to be honest, I don't love wagoning Stubbs if he's V/LA till deadline (was never a big fan of quicklynching V/LAs), but... hrm.

[Architect of Thought]

Actually, I redact my previous statement... I don't like a Who wagon. I forgot about the SK thing and didn't bother clicking the link in Guyett's post. Why would scum admit they wanted to be a SK? It doesn't make sense.

And I'm finding myself agreeing with Pyro: I think Guyett is town but some of his latest posts kinda suck. No offense.

Preview Edit: No. You're dumb.

[Architect of Thought]

kdbu is actually right abot hat pbing a town rell for who.

VOTE: jasonwaszza

a) I said the same thing, y'know. In the post right above him. But okay.
b) That wine

must

be fantastic.

We are not lynching Jason, and the people who are pushing for that need to drop that idea because it's stupid.

Why not and why, respectively?

[Architect of Thought]

This is a friendly reminder that, with 8 alive, we

could

be in LYLO. Lynch brings us to 7, two NKs to 5. Assuming there's two scum left, if there's an incorrect daykill tomorrow, we lose.

So I think we should be a little more careful today, just in case.

Reads:
The Purple Shoe - hasn't given a lot of reads, putting dopog to L-1 looks bad. Doesn't read that scummy to me, though. Null.
JasonWazza - 236 looks kinda bad, 263/272/303 is just a bunch of yelling. Says Toomai is lynchable in 504, but chastizes baldeagle in 506, odd. Hasn't been useful. Null-scummy.
Kdub - Town. Lots of questions, plenty of follow-ups, has been contributing, reads townie to me.
Who - early posts read a bit townie, claimed he wanted thirdparty, don't see why scum would claim that. Town.
StubbsKVM - can't get much from his posts to be honest... Null. Note: he was around when eagle was at L-2 and didn't put him to L-1.
dopog - town due to his reactions being wagoned and whatnot. didn't panic, was calm and explained his thoughts.

Town: Kdub, Who, dopog
Null: Shoe, Stubbs, Jason (from most null-townie to null-scummy)
Scum: Toomai

FoS: Toomai

Let's see here.

Pyro, Generic, Kdub, Who, Guyett, Shoe

So hey, who does everyone think the most likely scum is on this wagon?

Probably TPS, but just because I have everyone else as townier, not because I find him scummy.

That said I think there might be 2 scum on here, especially if they have daytalk.

Toomai, if you think there are 2 scum on the dopog wagon, you presumably think dopog is town? What makes you think that?

Why are you assuming there's only 2 scum? In a game including alignment-picking I think there could be as many as 4.

It'd be a pretty strange bus though.

A) He dodged the dopog question.
2) He says there's two scum on here, chastizes Kdub for 'assuming there's only two scum', then gives a way out for his next statement by saying "it'd be a pretty strange bus". Seems odd.

There's these two posts:

All I have right now are towns and nulls.

I agree that dopog doesn't look very good right now

So he doesn't have scumreads, but agrees dopog doesn't look good, but thinks there could be two scumbuddies bussing him, but that would be a strange bus.

You guys got all that? Good.

That said I think there might be 2 scum on here,

especially if they have daytalk.

Seems odd to bring up... This isn't a strong part of my case, just a note.

And his vote on Shoe today is kinda bad. Only thing throwing me off from a vote is this:

Claim: Town Enabler

Don't know what I enable, but it's implied there's more than one.

I chose Enabler because I figured I'd then be told at least one role elsewhere in the game. That didn't happen.

Not 100% sure how to feel about this claim. He's either town enabling a scum role, town enabling a town role, or scum fakeclaiming/enabling their own role. Claiming to pick Enabler seems odd and his logic is bad. Why pick Enabler and not a power role of your own when it's not guaranteed you'll be told another role? Then again, of all the things to fakeclaim, why fakeclaim Enabler?

How does everyone feel about a massclaim? If we have an overwhelming majority that isn't opposed, I think it could potentially be a good idea. Especially with so many deaths going around, I don't think we can gather much from another night of secrecy.

[Architect of Thought]

Sounds good.

Before I vote, though, the one thing that's bugging me is: why fakeclaim Enabler?

And I don't suppose you're willing to elaborate, since if we don't have protective roles you'd be screwed? Or if scum have a blocker?

[Architect of Thought]

Ugh. I don't buy this. I'll explain later if the thread isn't locked, or tomorrow.

VOTE: toomai

[Architect of Thought]

or you could have not voted so you could explain

My rationale was that I didn't want someone unvoting due to the claim. I didn't believe it and it pretty much cemented my scumread so I hammered.

My reasoning, by the way: I thought, had he picked Town (because who

asks

to be a 2-shot BP?), he would have said so when he claimed Enabler. Instead, he claimed he picked Enabler. He was focused more on lying than on making the claim believable, which I didn't feel came from a town mindset. Town mindset would be "hmm, I picked Town and got 2-shot BP, I should claim Town that got Enabler", not "I should lie about my role and choice". Also thought 2-shot BP was a bit odd. Turns out I was wrong.

[Architect of Thought]

Vanilla. Chose alignment. It's another reason why I was iffy on Toomai's claim yesterday: again, who picks two-shot BP? He probably picked town if he was town, and since I picked town and got Vanilla, I was a bit skeptic.

It's also the reason I'm playing on this account: I wanted a game where I could be town (I am really tired of drawing scum in more interesting games) and practice my scumhunting, but also did not want any sort of meta being brought up against me. This game seemed like the perfect opportunity.

Popcorn to Kdub, I suppose, to fully explain his role.

[Architect of Thought]

D1
TheIrishPope - Mafia Traitor (shot by Generic or TPS)
Guyett - Town Vigilante (shot by Generic or TPS)

N1
Pyrotechnics - Vanilla Townie
Generic - Town Day-JOAT

D2
1baldeagle1 - Vanilla Townie (shot by TPS)
Toomai - Town 2-shot Bulletproof

N2
The Purple Shoe - Town Dayvig
dopog - Vanilla Townie

D3 Claims
JasonWazza - Mason
Kdub - Mason Recruiter (Toomai n1, dopog n2)
Who - NK-Immune Miller Vig (shot Generic, Jason)
StubbsKVM - Tracker (Generic N1, Jason N2)
Architect of Thought - Vanilla

Reading through Kdub's ISO, I think the only way he can be scum is:
- if Empking put a Scum 'Mason Recruiter' and Town Mason in the game, which I will hate him for.
- him and Jason are scum and this was planned from the beginning.

In either of these cases, we're boned anyway because I'm less likely to want to vote Kdub here. I've had a townread on Kdub, and I don't see scum-Kdub lying and risking being scrutinized today. He also can't be scum with Jason being town, because that involves telling scum there's a mason in the game, among other stupid reasons. Kdub dropped hints of knowing Jason's alignment day 1, so the only logical way he can be scum is if this was a front. Unlikely.

So FMPOV, that leaves Who and Stubbs, of course.

Now, since Toomai flipped town, this means scum either have a roleblocker or something like a redirector. I want to think the former is more likely/common.

Redirector would explain the Who scenario, but if Who was telling the truth, that leaves Stubbs and I as scum. Which I slightly disagree with. Also, I'm going to point out that since it's pretty much confirmed scum have a way of messing with town actions, there's no way to confirm/break the setup with the claimed PRs unless we hit the roleblocker/redirector today. Even in that case, Kdub is most likely dying tonight.

I think Stubbs is more likely to be the roleblocker/redirector than Who. Who has been more in the forefront whilst Stubbs has been lurky, which is more likely to come from the more important scum role. So he's still the best lynch today. However, there's a problem. If Who is scum, then scum have an extra kill, which seems... overpowered. A roleblock/misdirect and extra shot, where town has three or more bullets... This is the part messing with me the most, because there's no other role-based explanation for the Generic kill. Who could be an SK after all, but two scum and a SK, with one scum being a Traitor? That doesn't fit either. Three scum plus SK plus 3+ town bullets in a mini is also silly. So that theory's out the window. This brings me back to, "why would Who claim he wanted to be a SK as scum?", too. ARGH.

I honestly have townreads on 3/4 of the other players in LYLO. That's a bit of an issue. I'm going to need some time to work through this. We should lynch Stubbs, but take our time to figure everything else out.

Something of note: Stubbs said he had a townread on Jason D1 and said nothing about changing that read. Then tracked him n2?

[Architect of Thought]

I may be repeating myself here, sorry. Trying to write things out to see if anything sticks out to me or someone else.

Kdub can't be scum with townJason. Jason also can't be scum with Kdub being town, because again, that involves telling scum there's a mason or mason-like role, which seems... off. Also I'm assuming because they're both masons, they got confirmation the other is town.

Both of them claiming they picked "Mason" and "Mason Recruiter", on their own accord, honestly worries me.

So they're either both town or both scum. For sure. Let's assume town.

If they're both town, this leaves Who/me/Stubbs. Who has bullets. He claims he was redirected...

If Who is scum and they can kill twice and we lynch Stubbs (or me, objectively) today, we still lose.
If Who is town and we lynch Stubbs today, we'd both have to be scum for it to successfully go to night. Then Who shoots me, I'm guessing.
If Who is town and we lynch me today, we lose.
If Who is an SK and we lynch me today, goes to night with 1 scum/SK/2 town. It all depends on the NKs from there.
If Who is an SK (or scum role that can kill twice unless he's the last scum alive) and we lynch Stubbs today, goes to night with 3 town+SK. We can break the setup here.
If Who is an SK or scum and we lynch him today, it's me/Stubbs/Jason LYLO?

Who has to be an SK, or scum with an extra kill (what.), there's no other way to explain this. The bad part about this is that the setup seems unbalanced. Town Dayvig, Vig, Dat-JoaT, Scum Roleblock, Traitor, SK. I guess with a 2-shot BP and making the SK bulletproof, it's more balanced, but still...

I'm leaning more towards SK. Which I don't want to make sense, because I don't get why SK would claim he wanted SK... that part bugs me, too.

Who claimed he was redirected. Kdub is still alive. I think scum have a roleblock. Makes more sense to kill Kdub if they have a redirect, rather than risk something coming up, since Kdub was kind of vague in his claim yesterday. Roleblocking him and leaving him alive seems okay. Still worries me, though.

We have two choices today:
- lynch Stubbs, the probable roleblocker/redirector,

and break the setup

* and deal with a me/Who/Kdub lylo.
- lynch Who, guaranteeing one kill tonight, and deal with a me/Stubbs/[Jason/Kdub] lylo.

*I thought we could break the setup if we lynched the roleblocker/redirector. Have Kdub target me and Jason post some sort of codeword or phrase in the QT tonight. But if Kdub can't read the QT, this is kind of useless, because there's no way to prove anything if Jason dies tonight. Which is what will probably happen in this scenario.

That's all I got, sorry if it seems a bit scattered. But when there's two scum/anti-town alive and you're looking at things from my POV, it's kind of confusing.

[Architect of Thought]

vote: Stubbs