Mini 1484 - Pick Your Partners (Game Over)

[T S O]

Vote: Mutley

If you guys would like me to egg you on to a page one quickhammer, I can do work.

[T S O]

As for discussing our lists, I don't think we should. I think it kinda ruins the point of scumhunting and such.

Elaborate on this.

[T S O]

GNR says we should post lists.

Lol nope. This is entirely 100% incorrect and I'm surprised you haven't realized this yet.

You could have said the flip flop was solely to start conversation, but it wasn't; otherwise you would have said that.

Discuss

Lol that's exactly what I did.

Hence

50% factually incorrect
50% false assumption
100% awful suspicion

Hooray

Okay, now you've got that out of your system, what's your reasoning on not posting lists?

[T S O]

UNVOTE:

I misread this. My apologies. I need to be more careful when I post before fully awake.

I'm down with lynching scum. After that, we can make preferences if we're lucky enough to catch scum.

This seemed like a joke to me - we can lynch scum after we lynch scum.

There was probably an element of that in it, yeah?

[T S O]

With the votes being 3-3 between two players, The Pjovek is a man of weighing decisions.

He decides on the spider.

VOTE: TheGargantula

Mutley's wagon is completely RVS. Gargantula's isn't.

It wasn't a hard decision, was it?

[T S O]

Riggs is suspicious for the same reasons as TheGarantula. I'm still waiting for him to elaborate on his werewolf plan.

I'm suspicious for not wanting to reveal lists? Is that it?

As for my werewolf plan, it's not so much a plan as it is a suggestion.

The "Mafia" team is essentially a group of evil mason (they can talk amongst themselves, have no night kill, and are not aligned with the town)
The "Werewolf" team is the group we have to look out for (they can talk amongst themselves, have a night kill, and are not aligned with the town)

So the main difference between mafia and werewolves are that the werewolves get a nightkill. This will eventually lead to tells.

Later in the game, the mafia team is going to be more focused on staying alive and trying (okay) to get rid of werewolves (great)
The werewolf team is going to be more focused on getting rid of town (bad) and trying to get rid of those who suspect them (bad)

Those two distinctions will be somewhat evident in their posting and we should be able to pick up on it.

It's better to pick up on the werewolf tells before the mafia because then we git rid of the only people who can perform nightkills. We get rid of that, and gettingrid of the mafia is a heck of a lot more easier.

Alternatively, the Werewolves shoot the Mafia at night in crossfire, and Town benefits from this.

I realise you can't count on crossfire but assuming best case scenario, the Werewolves could actually do our job for us.

As well as this, lynching a Mafia leads to multiple associative tells, as opposed to lynching Werewolves, where you get one.

[T S O]

I never said it was.

You said you had to weigh decisions. You didn't, though.

[T S O]

process of elimination.

[T S O]

Yeah Varsoon's town too.

Mainly because I don't think Varsoon would say what he just said if he were actually a partner with someone.

I have no idea why you'd assume this and it seems staged as fuck.

[T S O]

This is a really stupid line of questioning, guys. Basically if Varsoon acts scummy, he's town, if he acts town, we can't call him scum for it, and he can manipulate his play easily to suit either.

[T S O]

mmmmmmm.

G_N_R, opinion on Varsoon?

[T S O]

Yeah, but I don't see why him assuming VT's are partners is a towntell as opposed to basic speculation. He says he suspects he's town, so he's not sure, he pulls a bunch of random names out of thin air and says they're automatically town with him because he's guessing they might have had him high in their lists, and you question none of this and call him town.

I don't buy it.

[T S O]

[quote="In post 139, Does Bo Know]I think 90 and 92 seem townie the way those posts flowed together. They both seem like he is genuinely VT and that he's trying to find out who's town with him.[/quote]

It doesn't seem like he's trying to find out who's Town with him to me. He suspects certain people are Town with him. He gives no reasoning for it. It's like doubt without doubt. And he doesn't try to find out what you think of that, he gives a reason which can't be checked or verified in any way and basically is guesswork and WIFOM.

[T S O]

fuck you too quotebox :[

[T S O]

It's not just Varsoon's play, though. It was how quickly Titus and you accepted him as Town. I've played with Titus recently in a game I desperately wish I was alive in, and I know she was stubborn and pushed against the tide in that game, not accepting anything quickly and questioning. It was disturbing how rapid the change was, to be honest. And you're a good player too, but you immediately accepted Varsoon into the town bloc and you don't seem to have a case that really justifies him being town.

I'm not sure is Varsoon scum, but his posts haven't screamed town either and you and Titus' odd reaction leave me inclined to lean scum.

[T S O]

T S O, where was I on your list?
Please, don't flatter me too much.

Rrrrrrrandomised, due to activity.

[T S O]

Assume this scenario, T S O.
I like Titus.
I like DBK.
I like Nick The Name.
I put them all high on my list.
I think Titus likes me.
I think DBK likes me.
I think Nick the name likes me.
I think they all put me at the top of their lists.
I'm town.
I've got to have partners.
It follows that they're the people who wanted to be in the same faction (partnered) with me.
Those are my candidates.

Speculation-based as that is, I can get through it right until the end. But the way I see it is, if 3-4 players had you top and you had them as top? Likely you guys are Mafia. That theory works both ways and can't be proven.

I have a gutscum read on GNR, idk why.

[T S O]

6th.

Are there a load of inactives or what? Has Egg even posted?

[T S O]

That makes me feel a lot better.

DBK, opinion on GNR?

[T S O]

6th.

Any reason you didn't mention this when Varsoon first asked the question?

Not particularly, since I glanced at my list like once so I had no idea where Varsoon was on it.

[T S O]

Because I fail to see the relevance of doing so.

Where is your line of questioning going?

[T S O]

Well, Mutley told the truth.

This game is making me so paranoid.

PEdit: what reason would I have to lie/be hesitant?

[T S O]

EBWOP: Was that question in your PEdit directed at me? Because I think you're telling the truth and I don't see the issue with your answers.

No, seeing what you said reminded me of a question I had for Haschel.

[T S O]

{Nickthename, Egg, Dr.Dolittle} need to Dr.Domore.

*gunshot*

[T S O]

I don't know why but Haschel is pinging me.

Haschel, who do you think is scum? I don't really care about your list, just 1 player you think is scum and why.

[T S O]

Ah. Sorry for wanting to play the game.

I'm the type of guy that would rather spend hours on a puzzle in a game than take 3 minuets to look up the solution online. It ruins the fun. Part of the fun of playing mafia games is trying to figure out who is scum and who isn't.

I view the idea of us giving out our lists as a cheat code.

I don't remember saying it would help town more so than scum.

[T S O]

G_N_R needs to a) explain that and b) stop coasting.

Unvote
Vote: Guy_Named_Riggs

[T S O]

Alright you guys. Just calm down.

G_N_R needs to a) explain that and b) stop coasting.

Unvote
Vote: Guy_Named_Riggs

a. I said I don't remember, not I never said it
b. Coasting?? My last post was yesterday. How is that coasting? Sorry for having to work and sleep and eat and stuff.

I'll give you 2, but my point was you're not quite as active as other people.
1 seems like bullshit to me. You're arguing word technicalities on a point on which you're wrong. And if you didn't remember, would you not, I don't know, check before you leave? You only had 7 or 8 posts at that stage. Which brings me to my final point; with so little posted in this game, how could you not remember one of the only things you've said? It seems rather off to me.

[T S O]

I'd ask you do that because I hate coasting ;_;

[T S O]

Re: GNR being Mafia
I dont think GNR is mafia because how he highlighted the benefits of Town keeping mafia alive. I think he would have been more discreet in pushing town away from Mafia and hunting werewolf.

Re; Why Pjo
"Forcing scum into a lie is worth it in my book.
Every time they do, they run into risk of discovery."

This is a completely invalid reason on so many counts that it is basically scum trying to pull shit right out of his ass. I'm going to highlight everything that's wrong
"

Forcing

scum into a lie is

worth it

in my book.
Every time they do,

they run into risk of discovery

."
While it makes sense normally and you say, oh it looks ok, under first glance, this PYP setup circumstance deems this highly inappropriate (as mentioned in my previous posts).

Anyone else think this post is a load of crap?

[T S O]

And even if we say that it makes Mafia GNR less likely, it still makes Werewolf GNR just as viable. And then later in the post he talks about the set-up and making assumptions, despite having done the exact same thing a few sentences above. It's really odd.

[T S O]

Toch, why do you think Garan looks Town?

[T S O]

^^Is this talking about Dolittle's 274 or GNR's 24 and 65?

t-t-t-t-t-TWO-SEVEN-FOUR.

[T S O]

God there are so many lurkers in this game

Can something be done about Mutley's/ntn's situation?

Also Varsoon, when's your shit coming? =/

[T S O]

6th.

It was randomised.
And yeah, I am.

[T S O]

Hmmm.

It's time to go Mafia-hunting.

PEdit: that's so so opportunistic. He was obviously trying to create WIFOM.

Vote Haschel Cedricson

[T S O]

Explain.

[T S O]

Which is one way of looking at it. My way of looking at it says a Werewolf by itself is more likely to shoot Mafia who look Town. As well as this I dislike having a three-man team inside the Town. And a major flaw of your plan is if we don't hit the WW today the "4 mislynches" strategy gets blown out of the water. We have a far higher chance of hitting Mafia today.

[T S O]

I wasn't on the Pjovek wagon because I wasn't online, my list was randomised but I'm pretty sure Pjovek is high up on it, I think hunting ww is a bad idea, true, and incorrect.

Honestly I'd be willing to lynch Haschel or Dr. Dolittle. One of them is Mafia. Guaranteed.

[T S O]

Unvote:
Vote Dr. Dolittle

You're not WW. But you're quite possibly Mafia, and that's what I'm gunning for.

[T S O]

Unvote:
Vote Dr. Dolittle

You're not WW. But you're quite possibly Mafia, and that's what I'm gunning for.

[T S O]

I'm not convinced by Varsoon, either.

[T S O]

We'll deal with that tomorrow. I've still barely looked at the Pjovek wagon.

[T S O]

Partner usually implies Mafia as opposed to Mason. I think that in gambiting, Varsoon managed to pull it off.

Natirasha, Egg and Titus ain't being lynched today. Tochica probably isn't either. I want one of {Haschel, GNR} lynched.

Vote: Guy_Named_Riggs

[T S O]

GNR vote is in general. There are lots of associatives with him.

[T S O]

GNR is town. #65 is the correct mentality and strategy as town.
Whereas I don't agree having the list will be equivalent to having cheat code, all his posts has only town mentality that makes sense and understandable in his position.

Re: GNR being Mafia
I dont think GNR is mafia because how he highlighted the benefits of Town keeping mafia alive. I think he would have been more discreet in pushing town away from Mafia and hunting werewolf.

Re; Why Pjo
"Forcing scum into a lie is worth it in my book.
Every time they do, they run into risk of discovery."

This is a completely invalid reason on so many counts that it is basically scum trying to pull shit right out of his ass. I'm going to highlight everything that's wrong
"

Forcing

scum into a lie is

worth it

in my book.
Every time they do,

they run into risk of discovery

."
While it makes sense normally and you say, oh it looks ok, under first glance, this PYP setup circumstance deems this highly inappropriate (as mentioned in my previous posts).

My point was that I feel like you're relying your town read on something too flimsy compared to other stuff.

And that you didn't really strengthen your case on Pjovek, in my opinion.

On GNR: It is also very gut base! Although this is probably open to interpretation
On Pjo: It wasn't to strengthen the case. It was answering Egg's 259. I still think Pjo is scum.

^ 399 is fricking important because it gives a shoutout to town that it makes NO SENSE to attack HC and I for proposing to hunt to werewolf.

Werewolf by itself is more likely to shoot Mafia who look Town

Uh Uh, try again! Werewolf functions essentially like an SK. Town, mafia are the same to them regardless, since mafia does not have kills. In fact town poses a greater threat because they are currently larger in number than mafia.

The remaining Werewolf will definitely not see the town and mafia the same. The mafia members know each other, so if the werewolf gets rid of too many townies the mafia will be able to figure out who he is Thoth on PoE.

@Dolittle: I explained why town doesn't need to hunt WW today in 383. You even acted like you agreed in 386. It's your turn to explain.

Ok this one? 383 is a response to 351 which I concede.
It is not giving a reason to why town doesnt need to hunt WW.

Tell me why town needs to hunt werewolf Today from the TOWN's perspective, not the werewolfs.

Also TheGar is WW2.

Lynch whomever you are interested in.

Associatives link you to Dolittle and link Gar away, seeing as I cannot see scum being so audacious as to call their own partner WW. Garan is very possible WW.

[T S O]

oh and a slight asso to hc.

Final scum/WW within {Garan, Mutley, Toch} with Garan being most likely to be WW and least likely to be Mafia.

[T S O]

Who do you think is scum, then?

[T S O]

With the votes being 3-3 between two players, The Pjovek is a man of weighing decisions.

He decides on the spider.

VOTE: TheGargantula

Garantula may not be WW.

[T S O]

GNR, Mutley, Haschel. It's the pool of life and the pool of lynching.

Natirasha, it disturbs that I have gone from solid town to ww with you. Where did this happen?

[T S O]

Please do, then if he flips maf his partner is GNR.

If he flips town or WW. Then GNR could be scum for other reasons.

He bussed his scum partner, he's bussing his other scum partner, if he's scum GNR is scum, if he's not GNR is scum.

What the fuck is this?

[T S O]

I voted this no lynch guy too.

Anyway I just read some of the game,

Think TSO is likely mafia. So if you want to get a mafia today he is so likely to be one. Oh and GNR is his partner

So when the whole game was going for the last WW, I said we should get Mafia and proceeded to bus my scumbuddy for no reason.

[T S O]

Still fairly confident Haschel is mafia. But. yes, we should wolf hunt today.

So I'll go along with your line of reasoning, Egg.

VOTE: Egg.

TSO, this is my case on you being the wolf. It's not as fleshed out as Egg's case on mutley, which is why I'm going for him at the moment.

Okay, actually, rereading TSO, I find it likely he is the other wolf.

First, his list was randomized. I think it's safe to say everyone who's list wasn't randomized did not deign to put Pjovek towards the top of their lists. This would narrow down our candidate pool to those who haven't randomed(Mutley, TSO, did anyone else fail to submit?).
Second, read post 67. Third, the little Pjovek WIFOM thing could be babby's first WIFOM and he only went one layer deep(I know I said to ignore the WIFOM, but I'm working with the theory Pjovek is a big noob, in which case I think he would bluff us into thinking he was lying while telling the truth). Fourth, his entry today distinctly said he wanted to kill mafia, not scum, not werewolves. No, he wanted mafia.

This argument doesn't hold weight and you know it. Point number 1 relies on you knowing the algorithms that are used to decide partners and you don't, so you're gambling on a guess that first on the list is a partner. Point 2 points to a post where I said we should go after Mafia. That's been my plan all along. I have no idea why this is scummy. Thirdly you're again trying to manipulate WIFOM to fit your point and it's not working. Point 4 is, uh, the same as Point 2.

You're better than that.

[T S O]

Where do I seem worried Varsoon will catch me? Varsoon would have caught me day if I was scum. all your points are based on poor assumptions.

Where did I say TSO is scum for having two suspects. I said he is scum cos what he does as scum is weak bus. Like he has done with GNR the last few days he never really pushes his vote. He keeps options open to change easily as he has done today by also naming me and hersch.

One game with me as scum and you know my meta? No.

And you're probably right; Varsoon would have caught you. So you didn't post. You have stayed just above the water, like GNR.

[T S O]

Well, Dolittle was up for the WW as well, and advocated it strongly.

I don't recall having much back-up for it, anyway. Feel free to prove me wrong.

[T S O]

Natirasha, GNR hasn't exactly posted much.

[T S O]

So posting nearly nothing is better than nothing?

Fair enough.

[T S O]

idk tbh. It would have to be either Mutley, GNR or Haschel, but I haven't been able to decide between the three of them. Regardless, I feel they're the lynches for today, and we can hit scum if we do so.

[T S O]

Unvote:
Vote Mutleyddmc

Decision time. I feel he's the player with the best chance of flipping WW at this point in time.

L-1. Anyone who hammers is auto-lynched tomorrow.

Claim, Mutley.

[T S O]

If you insist on slowing the game down, sure. End result is the same.

[T S O]

GNR, I'd really love to hear your opinion on this wagon.

[T S O]

There's not a case on HC today, but his vote at the start of the day was amazingly opportunistic, and I think there are associatives. I can't remember.

The only thing that could save Mutley at this stage would probably be a Mason claim.

Will someone please give intent?

[T S O]

So, you're not Mason?

[T S O]

Natirasha, I addressed the Wolf case already. It does seem strange to me that you went from "Let's judge TSO based on his actions, not WIFOM" to making a case on me which heavily leans on WIFOM.

Regardless, I can't believe you guys are actually following the Mutley wagon. This guy has hard lurked the whole game while Varsoon was alive, who Mutley even admits can read him. It makes total sense.

Haschel, do you still think I'm scum?

[T S O]

Do you really think Pjovek would try to pull that? Do you actually? Noobscum would shit their pants before they tried that. There is no way Pjovek would have the guts to pull off that as a newbie.

[T S O]

With the votes being 3-3 between two players, The Pjovek is a man of weighing decisions.

He decides on the spider.

VOTE: TheGargantula

Mutley's wagon is completely RVS. Gargantula's isn't.

It wasn't a hard decision, was it?

I never said it was.

You said you had to weigh decisions. You didn't, though.

Do these interactions look scum-scum to you?

[T S O]

No, #547 is me explainng why you're completely untrustworthy.

[T S O]

Where do I seem worried Varsoon will catch me? Varsoon would have caught me day if I was scum. all your points are based on poor assumptions.

Where did I say TSO is scum for having two suspects. I said he is scum cos what he does as scum is weak bus. Like he has done with GNR the last few days he never really pushes his vote. He keeps options open to change easily as he has done today by also naming me and hersch.

Mid-day? Yeah no.

[T S O]

fuck fuck fuck, I wanted GNR back.

[T S O]

Well, Haschel has made a great post on how we can't be scum together. You're still scum, Haschel.

[T S O]

Mutley's recent "I wouldn't kill Bo" is such blatant WIFOM bullshit.

I can already predict Mutley's claim anyway.

[T S O]

Mutley's recent "I wouldn't kill Bo" is such blatant WIFOM bullshit.

I can already predict Mutley's claim anyway.

[T S O]

Oh, really? Can't I? You basically told us you weren't Mason so the only thing left for you to claim is ...VT.

Now you'll neither confirm nor deny this so you can draw your lynch out a bit.

[T S O]

Mafia probably suspect Mutley's the Werewolf and they know they have to make sure he stays alive or they lose.

Tochica is creeping up my scumdar.

[T S O]

Haschel needs to post, as does GNR. *sigh*

Egg already dissected Mutley for breakfast *gunshot* so I'm not going to go through that but I find it revealing that Tochica just dismissed it as tunnel vision instead of addressing it whatsoever.

[T S O]

Shrug, Egg, I think you are starting to tunnel hard here and see everything Mutley says as scummy. Provoked by your argument, and the fact Mutley claims bo told him so, I tried looking into games of bo and mutley playing together and found that in the first game I found http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/CwDkUhxRFWpi I will quote from dead topic post #106 here:

Bo said:

No but seriously this game is moving pretty slowly.
For the love of God I want Mutley to flip scum in one game he's in and town in another so that I could have the slightest possibility of reading him next game we're in together.

I stopped reading after that, if anyone feels like digging more they are welcomed but imo it's totally possible bo did tell him so.

Regardless of this whole argument I just feel that's wrong and we have better chance hitting on scum if we lynch TSO.

Do you want to give a case? Do you want to explain which alignment you think I am? Do you want to explain why, if I was Mafia, I would hardbus my partner for no reason?

[T S O]

VOTE: DBK

First you vote GNR for suggesting that we should discuss our lists. Then you vote Garantula for saying we shouldn't. That's suspicious.

I never suggested that. At all. Egg did when he voted me.


As for discussing our lists, I don't think we should. I think it kinda ruins the point of scumhunting and such.

Also, we esentially have 3 factions. One has a nightkill, so they should probably be found first. Finding mafia can wait. I'm loading my gun with silver bullets and going werewolf hunting

This really backs GNR being Mafia.

[T S O]

GNR - Mafia
Mutley - WW
Tochica or Haschel works out as Mafia, since I trust everyone else pretty well.

[T S O]

You don't see how Mutley is scummy? Are you fucking kidding me? While Pjovek got lynched d1

Mutley was voting NoLynch.

His ISO d1 consists of him trying to get himself quicklynched, asking about Xbox games, telling us his list was randomised and voting No Lynch WHILE PJOVEK WAS AT L-1. He didn't have the guts to bus him. There is no way you can think he's Town.

re. Pjovek and me your whole point is fluff because you're accusing me of being Mafia and as Mafia I have no affliation with Werewolves, so it's all useless. Not to mention it doesn't even work for me as WW either but that's a different matter.

"One of HC and Dr. Dolittle are Mafia." What do you want me to say here? I thought at least one of them was Mafia. I was right.

I don't think you're addressing my point here. I was pressuring Dr. Dolittle the whole day before getting on his wagon. It makes no sense for me to hardbus for no reason whatsoever.

Mutley's called Egg scum as well, btw.

Tochica, why do you want to keep Mutley alive so badly?

[T S O]

I'm taking that to mean you don't think he's scum.

[T S O]

But if he's scum, does it matter? He'll be doing his best to derail us.

Do you think that slot is scum?

[T S O]

Okay, caught up. TSO needs to be lynched.

TheGarantula spent a lot of time tunneling on Mutley only to withdraw his hammer at the last minute. Now that he's retracted his Mutleyread, his ISO makes it unclear who he now considers to be scummy. The only problem is that the Garantula/DoLittle interactions do not feel like a bus at all.

Eager to hear Voidedmafia's thoughts, as his slot is the only one that hasn't expressed an opinion re: TSO/Mutley.

I'd love to hear why.

[T S O]

...fine, for now.

Unvote

Until you catch up, Voided.

[T S O]

Mutley is not the predictable type.

[T S O]

If TSO flips mafia - Voided is partner

look at titus unless mason cleared once TSO is gone.

Everyone who suspects me is scum today, despite you not implicating ONE person for the last 2 days.

[T S O]

Sorry, changed from first-person to third-person. ;_;

[T S O]

Haschel, I want to hear what your reasons are.

[T S O]

Hammer? Hammer.

Vote: Mutleyddmc

Unless someone has infiltrated the Townbloc, he's scum. Wolfff.

Get Tochica tomorrow.

[T S O]

Perhaps because I feel I've accurately called scum all game and they know I'll push their lynches through tomorrow.

But Egg is seen as Town and we share reads. It'll probably be him.

[T S O]

Egg is so Town I'm actually getting quite paranoid of him being scum though. The rest of the playerlist seems the same.

[T S O]

Hey. Worst case scenario, my people. wcs.

[T S O]

Voided, re. 571, Haschel made a post proving we're not scum together. I'm Town, he's Mafia.

[T S O]

Does massclaiming hurt us? I don't think it does.

VT. Popcorn to Garan.

[T S O]

All will be revealed in time, my good Mafia.

[T S O]

But I have to give you your dues, you don't want us to have a conftown player today as that would make life harder for you. And I respect that.

[T S O]

I SWEAR IF SOMEONE HAMMERS ME WITHOUT THE MASSCLAIM HAPPENING, I WILL BE SO FUCKING PISSED.

MASSCLAIMING HELPS FAR MORE THAN IT HINDERS.

[T S O]

BUT OKAY, FINE, YOU GUYS FUCKED IT UP AGAIN.

MASON HERE, CRUMBED MY FIRST POST. IT WAS OBVIOUS, BUT SOMEONE MIGHT HAVE FALLED FOR IT.

[T S O]

If you guys would like me to egg you on to a page one quickhammer, I can do work.

Find the breadcrumb, it's one of the few things you guys may be able to do.

[T S O]

If you guys would like me to egg you on to a page one quickhammer, I can do work.

Find the breadcrumb, it's one of the few things you guys may be able to do.

[T S O]

And, want some more bad news?

Egg never posted in our QT w/ his final reads before he died.

[T S O]

I'll check.

[T S O]

Garantula, why were you the only one who didn't realise I was obvMason?

[T S O]

With the votes being 3-3 between two players, The Pjovek is a man of weighing decisions.

He decides on the spider.

VOTE: TheGargantula

I find that compelling.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Guy_Named_Riggs

GNR is scum for sure.
TSO can explain it better than me.

imo DrDolittle makes no sense at all and I still don't really know why he lynched me, but apparantly other people get it? not sure, I'd put him as scum.

tso is obviously town.
bo and tochica are townreads to me.

the rest is nully or in the i-dunno territory.

These are the only things left I can think of that can find the Wolf.

Which one of them shows his buddy?

[T S O]

I thought I knew my reads and had this game sorted, but Mutley's flip has meant I have to TOTALLY recalibrate.

I think the WW will shoot Mafia tonight even if we lynch Town. He knows that people like Void, Toch and Haschel are quite-possible Mafia.

I'm thinking over whether to sheep Egg on Titus.

[T S O]

Yeah you do or I promise you I'll lynch you.

[T S O]

Mafia know they have to try to help us today or we go to a situation tomorrow where the WW wins if they stay alive.

Fuck this set-up!

[T S O]

You know what? Before I find WW, I want to confirm my Mafia reads.

IN YOUR NEXT POST, I WANT EVERYONE TO STATE WHO YOU THINK IS MAFIA.

[T S O]

My feeling at the moment is basically that we don't know who the WW is. We have a general pool of scummy players but we can't distinguish who the WW is.

Natirasha/Titus, Egg and Varsoon seemed to trust you, so I guess I will too.

Who are the Mafia?

[T S O]

If your name is Titus, maybe.

What is your reasoning on hasch-maf?

[T S O]

Oh. You see, I was hoping #298 wasn't the crux of your case, because it equally applies to you.

[T S O]

I appreciate you're not GNR but his slot actions don't just magically disappear.

Dolittle distances from both your slot and Haschel's. I doubt he does that for both his partners, which is why I think it's Dolittle-Toch-{Voided, HC}. I can't decide who the WW is atm.

[T S O]

Egg thought Titus was WW. I'll read her tomorrow.

[T S O]

I was actually thinking the same as Titus right up to the point where I realised I'd die.

WW must go.

[T S O]

hmm. If I had to say, I'd give {HC, Tochica, Titus} as the Wolf. I'll look through their ISO.

[T S O]

Or Garantula. idfk anymore.

I was sure I had this game fucking sorted out, but Mutley's flip just rocked my world.

[T S O]

Tochica is definitely Mafia, actually. Take him out.

[T S O]

I don't think Voided is WW either.

[T S O]

ISO yourself.

[T S O]

I am certain town. There's no almost.

But Tochica's stances throughout are screaming Mafia to me.

[T S O]

yeah I am.

I should check Nati just to be certain but Garan-you-HC is what I want in the pool atm.

[T S O]

It's just I don't feel I need to make a case on someone I've called Mafia all game when we're not even lynching Mafia today.

Nati, out of {Titus/Garan/HC}, who do you think is the WW?

[T S O]

Oh fuck, there's no way Titus-scum did that.

Ohhh boy.

Why not Haschel? Admittedly he looks Mafia-ish but if you check his ISO it's just rather ..odd, tbh.

[T S O]

So the only people it could be atm are Voided/HC/Garan.

[T S O]

While I'm sure that sharing our preferences might help, it would kind of run the fun.

This game is so fast. It's hard to keep up with.

First off, to all those saying that claiming lists is somehow "gaming the system", get over yourself.

What? What was the point of saying this?

Anyway, I'm going to look at my flash wagon, because I think it's likely that at least one of those votesndidn't come from town.

Spoiler: My Wagon

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Garantula

Discuss

This is just to cause discussion; there isn't anything scummy about it.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Garantula

Discuss

DING DING DING DING DING

Vote: Garantula

It DIDN'T?

Now I'm confused.

There are valid reasons why we shouldn't claim our lists, as you mentioned in a post that I'm not gonna bother scrolling up to cite. TheGarantula chose not to address any of those issues and instead argue that claiming lists would "ruin the fun". He even agrees that a mass list claim "might help". If he thinks it will be helpful, then he should have no problem doing it. If he has a problem doing it, then it should be a better reason than some e-honor "ruining the fun" excuse.

This is a theme game. Discussion about the mechanics is an inevitable part of it. TheGarantula wants that avenue shut down, NOT because of town reasons (i.e. it may not actually help the town) but because of scum-motivated reasons (i.e. "I don't want to get caught THAT way".

I assumed you were thinking similar thoughts.

Although I disagree with his reasoning, and I don't think he interpreted some of my post the way I meant it, I don't think it's a purposeful misrepresentation. I don't think these posts are scummy.

While I'm sure that sharing our preferences might help, it would kind of run the fun.

Unvote, Vote TheGar

No given explanation, but it can be inferred that he's sheeping Haschel. I don't like this vote, but since he hasn't posted since it I'm not sure how much he would have elaborated or how seriously he would have stuck to it.

I told Titus I changed my vote because I was bored and it might've started conversation. Sorry if you thought there was reason.

But your reason does make sense. I'll hop on dat, nothing better to do.

VOTE: TheGarantula

I'm not so sure about this one. Blatant sheeping, but seeing as he's done other scum hunting since I don't think it makes him scummy.

With the votes being 3-3 between two players, The Pjovek is a man of weighing decisions.

He decides on the spider.

VOTE: TheGargantula

This is one of the worst votes, especially considering this post:

So yes, you are scummier than the people that refuse to share the lists because "it's too easy".
Yes, it's easy as shit. I'm not against an ez win.

And while people refusing it is usually lame, it's not downright scum.

You're painting the situation as something it just isn't. And then you try to lynch me on that basis.
Yeah, that means you're scum.

What I did wasn't scummy, but he voted me for it?

It's not a crime to bust a cool rhyme.
I'm town and I'll say it without a frown.
Also, I guess I have to weigh who would want to be other people's partners.
I think

Vote: Garantula

is fair enough.
Getting any scum is good, and I suspect that I am town with Titus, DBK, and Muttley.

Here's another person hopping on to my wagon for what can only be assumed the same reasoning as the others: that I didn't want to discuss the lists and how they influenced the setup of the game. I don't like how he's comfortable hopping in as 5th on a wagon with such little reasoning.

Rather than setup speculation, which gets us nowhere and scum will want to milk to their own ends, why don't we, y'know, actually play the game.

So now

he

doesn't want to talk about the setup of the game? Very odd, seeing as he just voted me for the same thing.

TL;DR: Varsoon and Pjovek's votes give me the heebie jeebies.
VOTE: Varsoon

FOS: Pjovek

Also, could someone define PoE? What does it stand for?

ohhh boy. Varsoon vote, Pjovek FOS'd.

[T S O]

GNR is town. #65 is the correct mentality and strategy as town.
Whereas I don't agree having the list will be equivalent to having cheat code, all his posts has only town mentality that makes sense and understandable in his position.

Echoing this.

VOTE: Pjovek

He was in the bottom half of my list, his responses have been bad, his votes have been OMGUSsy and lack forethought.

Natirasha, what took so long for you to vote Pjovek?

Why have his votes been OMGUSy when only

one

of them was OMGUSy? GNR's vote on Pjovek looks more OMGUSy than Pjovek's vote on GNR anyway.

As I say every game, I don't vote easily. I prefer to be confident in my convictions before voting. In this case, I don't like 212+215. His three votes have been all terrible, one literally him stating that he's randomly choosing a wagon to join, one OMGUS, one is a defensive vote on the other prominent wagon.

I'm mildly confused on the GNR case. I don't find the "contradiction" to be compelling evidence simply because even townies say shit at times that are contradictory(at least I know I do). The "coasting" argument is alright, I guess, but if that's the case we should be trying to run up DrD and Egg as well.

That's fair.

I still find Pjovek's case more compelling, though. I have no previous (non-ongoing) experience with any of the players in this game, and perhaps that would change my tune with GNR, but at the moment I have him decidedly null. This could change when I see more posts by him, though.

Nati the Wolf? Please.

[T S O]

I cannot see Nati voting in 242, then given multiple reasons to leave the wagon and continuing to stay on it.

[T S O]

I'm checking your case. If I think it's nonsense, I'm chalking you down as Mafia.

[T S O]

I'm pretty sure Mafia don't want the WW lynch.

This feels scum-guided.

[T S O]

@Garantula: I feel like your vote on me is a bit of a response on my weak hop from you to Pjo, and is looking to exploit the jump made there.
I don't like his reactions and engagement around post 55. Everything there feels like Pjo interacting in a stilted, scummy way that's trying to turn town on town.

+GaranWW

[T S O]

The Mafia don't want a WW lynch. Therefore, they want a VT lynch. Therefore, they're pushing a mislynch.

[T S O]

Great.

[T S O]

Garantula giving no reason for replacing is also triggering my spider-senses of scum.

[T S O]

Voided, I'm gonna go with your decision here.

Is Titus a better wagon than Garantula?

[T S O]

I'm asking you a question. I don't need to prove my alignment. You do. Answer, or I'll just chalk you down as Tochica's buddy.

[T S O]

Vote: TheGarantula

[T S O]

Vote: Mrbartlet

-_-

[T S O]

No, I don't think so.

I wasn't proxying my vote to you, by the way.

[T S O]

I was trying to discern your alignment. You didn't pass, by the way.

[T S O]

Actually, it does, and I can still gain use from the test.

Goddamn there are so many people fucking undermining me here.

If Town is lynched today I'd argue WW should go for Mafia. That's me being honest, WW.

[T S O]

Anyway, I want Bartlet's slot lynched.

[T S O]

fuck Garantula's 121-131 or so made me think he was WW with Pjovek

but Pjovek misspelled his name and I can't see him being good enough to pull that w/ his partner

[T S O]

Voided, I have neither the time nor the inclination to do that. If you want, you can vote me.

[T S O]

Just from post 830 it's ridicolous. He starts off saying there's three scum undermining us. He's trying to get into our minds that scum isn't him and he's referring to three others. Buddying up to the conf town cos his opinion is the one he trusts most. Yeah right TSO hasn't done great for it to be amazingly trust worthy.

Then you get the next line where his hard bussing is about to start to get as much distance for tomorrow if Haschel is lynched. Then there's his 845 calling Haschel a gimme. Yet before post 830 on this day he hasn't really mentioned this before. He has mentioned Haschel as mafia a few times but never really pushed through and only when needed. Ill quote it up a bit later

2/3 isn't a bad ratio. I'll admit the Mutley kill rocked my world but it's been hard when strong Town players who I thought was Town persistently die. My play hasn't been that bad. On that note, I looked at your Nati-HC case and I wasn't convinced at all.

[T S O]

WW killing me makes no sense if Town is lynched today. WW should only theoretically kill me if Mafia are lynched. Let me see.

[T S O]

Town lynch and me dead makes it 2-2-1 to Town. In that case a WW lynch is an insta-lose for Town. WW killing Mafia makes it 3-1-1 which is better odds for them.

Yeah, that's right. If WW gets outta here with a Town lynch and they hit Mafia they're essentially home.

[T S O]

WW MUST DIE.

[T S O]

Just from post 830 it's ridicolous. He starts off saying there's three scum undermining us. He's trying to get into our minds that scum isn't him and he's referring to three others. Buddying up to the conf town cos his opinion is the one he trusts most. Yeah right TSO hasn't done great for it to be amazingly trust worthy.

Then you get the next line where his hard bussing is about to start to get as much distance for tomorrow if Haschel is lynched. Then there's his 845 calling Haschel a gimme. Yet before post 830 on this day he hasn't really mentioned this before. He has mentioned Haschel as mafia a few times but never really pushed through and only when needed. Ill quote it up a bit later

2/3 isn't a bad ratio. I'll admit the Mutley kill rocked my world but it's been hard when strong Town players who I thought was Town persistently die. My play hasn't been that bad. On that note, I looked at your Nati-HC case and I wasn't convinced at all.

You did nothing on the 2/3 you like never mentioned pjo. And you were so late on the drdo lynch. So shhhhh.

If you want to lynch a wolf it's between tochica and Titus. Lean heavy on tochica.

mafia is so clearly Haschel and Natirasha.

TSO why are you so sure I am wolf? Why not mafia? Why specifically wolf?

Look how wrong you were on Muttley?

Conf town =/= right however that's seems to be the case of peoe eventually following the conf town. He's not a cop or anything and his analysis is shit. You may all say its stupid that one post is what convinced me on Natirasha and Haschel. However sometimes that is all is needed. One obvious thing, although in this case I had that feeling and then read that post which confirmed it for me.

You see, this is what's convincing me you're scum. Instead of explaining why you're not scum you say that my poor play is the problem. This isn't a Town mindset to come from. Your cases on the two Mafia were shit and I don't buy either of them.

Me being wrong with Mutley has nothing to do with me being right or wrong with you.

[T S O]

Titus, I'm honestly not 100% sure Bartlet-slot is the WW. However, it's my best guess.

[T S O]

I cannot see GNR as a WW.

[T S O]

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

If I lose this game, it's because I made a townbloc which was infiltrated.

[T S O]

Bartlet, you were 100% right. Nati completely had me, though the other two didn't.

My apologies. Nati, you probably deserved to win.

Titus was obvious Town.

[T S O]

Tochica, in such a hard choice situation, why didn't you simply NK?

[T S O]

the mistake we made was WW hunting. Lynch scumreads.

[T S O]

yeah ikr Pjovek

I was starting to see Voided could be Town by the end but Tochica not being Mafia was the conclusion I missed.

[T S O]

ebwop: yeah Voided, we should have told the WW that, as it was actually the logical play for both WW and Town.

[T S O]

Much as he patronized me, I don't really think it made a difference. I was hell-bent on lynching his slot and scumHasch would have hammered.

[T S O]

Sorry for calling you an idiot TSO I was hoping my blaze of glory entrance etc would convince you on the slot. I was wrong. You were too bent on that slot and nothing could change that.

No problem, I don't take it personally.

Apart from Saki. Saki sucks.

[T S O]

"Oh, I just saw you updated the rules in thread, I won't change my kill if Titus is town and mafia wins so be it. I am sorry if you have been waiting on me the change the kill."

Tochica, you went from a chance to win to no chance to win...

[T S O]

Mine was randomised.

I'd actually love to play another game of this with the same players

[T S O]

tbh you should PM it because I think this set-up's cool but knowing the algorithms could fuck it up.

That, or from now scum get fake lists which is an effort.