Mini Theme 1513: Theater Season Mafia: Day Four

[Lord Mhork]

Alright hi guys. I'm Lord Mhork, though that's prolly painfully obvious since I think I know most of you already. w/e

Reviewing the QT from way back before I totally forgot about the game, mastin and I both agreed that Psyche is essentially confirmed town. That spat with uct was definitely not bussing. However apparently there might be a SK? If so, maybe, but I honestly don't care about that now. I'm going to look for associative tells with uctriton from earlier in the game.

However if there is an SK doesn't that likely mean we prolly have 2 scum in a 13 player setup? 1:3:9 feels really off balance.

Gedak is still obviously town and it's dumb that he had to go. However maybe his replacement will do awesome stuff too.

VOTE: King Gedek

I still don't see Smudger obv town at all. Trollie bothers me because I don't remember anything he's posted except that he's supposedly hunting for some other role. I still like Rach for towniness though I wish she'd post more so I could feel better about that. I would really rather not get fooled by her AtE >.>
Similar thing with alpa. He started out really town and it's sorta plateauing.

I think that I'm still happy with

VOTE: Mantis

Though.

[Lord Mhork]

Smudger your vote on me is literally the shittiest thing I have read. Of course I read that Gedak was replacing out.

That's why I said I was sad to see him go.

I will also kick and scream for the entire day to avoid kinging you again. I don't like you. I think you're scummy. I want you to go.

Also did you have a reason to vote me or is the dumb 'lol he isnt reading guize'?

[Lord Mhork]

Smudger your vote on me is literally the shittiest thing I have read. Of course I read that Gedak was replacing out. That's why I said I was sad to see him go.

I will also kick and scream for the entire day to avoid kinging you again. I don't like you. I think you're scummy. I want you to go.

Also did you have a reason to vote me or is the dumb 'lol he isnt reading guize'?

Ok, I see what you are saying now but, Do you think I care whether you king me again or not? The fact that you are even mentioning that is very much of note, are you suggesting that I remove my vote because you will not King me again, really? If you want me to go then do something about it, or continue to lurk.

I would figure it would bother you at least a little. If nothing else at least make you reconsider getting the king vote on someone who is a generally agreed town read rather than just you. If you're town, extra abilities on you means that scum gets an easy shot. If you're scum, it's hording abilities on you that could be going to town. Since I think the latter, I will definitely fight my way against your kinging as best I can. As town you should understand why you don't need to horde abilities.

So my statement is not 'of note.' That's a stupid thing to say anyway. Do you find it scummy?

Also fuck you you arrogant ass. I've had sketch activity because of IRL issues. Also for some reason the town seems blind to your scumminess so there's not much I can do about it. I've been trying to get you lynched for a very long time now. Funnily enough it's never materialized. I wonder why

@Micro:
VOTE: Confirm King: Micro

Still obvtown though I really miss Gedak. That wasn't a scum slip, though. Also I'm very sure that Psyche is town. Is his attitude the only thing that has you calling him scum?

In fact @all town:
Why are people suddenly converging on Psyche-Scum? Or do you honestly think that uct/Psyche was deadline bussing?

[Lord Mhork]

You need to learn humility, pal. You are far, far,

far

too arrogant.

I'm not even sure what you're trying to say anymore. Whatever.

[Lord Mhork]

Back off, compadre. I'm not a teenager.

Also ok, Psyche. Can you explain to me why mantis isn't scum?

[Lord Mhork]

Hint: she's scum.

Also I would really rather not claim at this point

[Lord Mhork]

Fine

VOTE: King Psyche

All hail the psychology master race.

[Lord Mhork]

Oh hi guys. New Years was a thing.

So Rach is just a PL?

[Lord Mhork]

k I'm still here but still uninspired :/

[Lord Mhork]

Wow suddenly work picked up. I'm really sorry guys :/
I'll try to do more with this tonight if I can stay awake

[Lord Mhork]

Right I still don't see the Rach wagon at all. Like I've said, she's done more this game, though forever ago, than I've even seen her do. I want Smudger or Mantis lynched.

[Lord Mhork]

Smudger is slimy scummy scum. He's been that way since way back when when he tried first discrediting my slot with bad logic.

And Mantis because I liked Gedak's reads and case.

[Lord Mhork]

Look you are just trying to discredit me now. You're saying that all I'm doing is getting upset with you because you 'dented my ego.' Here's a news flash: I've been on this site for 2 years, going on my third and I have played many a game of mafia. I think that it's safe to say that my ego is not dependent on your approval.

Here's the fact: you tried to discredit my slot. Mastin was/is a very famous site player and notorious for his mafia theory. In short, he's supposed to be pretty fucking good. So your response when he came in? You tried to discredit the slot. You tried to discredit the player. You described him as what? A caricature? A bad sitcom character? That is not town. There is no town motivation there.

Only scum would try to discredit a slot that early in the game. And your responses are getting weaker and more accusatory. You're not trying to discuss anything or debate. You're trying to get me to back down. I'm tired of it.

[Lord Mhork]

omfg i got smudger mixed with antimony. I cannot fucking believe this

I'm done with the game for today. I just can't. Not fucking again.

[Lord Mhork]

No that was not a fucking sorry

And fuck you. I'm tired and upset and right now having minor panic issues. So fuck off.

Just a reminder that I have a low tolerance for abusive language. However I am assuming this is a real life issue being dealt with so this is only a reminder to try to avoid abusive language and personal attacks.

[Lord Mhork]

You've gotta be fucking kidding me. I'm not dealing with a dumbass deadline flash wagon on me. You should feel terrible, Nacho.

As I've been fucking saying forever. Nacho slot is town. Fucking obvtown. Let's see who tried to discredit mega obv town Gedak when Micro came in. Not like that's fucking SUSPECT at all.
I also love how Micro was a bad player and thus could be scum but then nacho comes in and everyone is prepared to follow him because 'lulz nacho flashwagon go'

Speaking of confirmed fucking town, I'll go over my list:
Psyche.

That's it. Those are my two solid town reads. I lean townish on alpa because that's what mastin was saying before he dropped. And he seemed super convinced

This leaves Rach, Trollie, Mantis, and Smudger. Rach is probably town, therefore scum is in Trollie, Mantis, and Smudger. This is why I want Smudger lynched. I don't care about your 'lol scum watcher would play differently.' I don't care about the 'scum wouldn't be this ballsy.' Smudger is the scummiest scumfuck in this game. He's an arrogant ass because he knows he's winning. However he's not finding scum. He's not being lynched. Ya know who considers that a victory? SCUM. He's not trying. He's being an asshole. He's picking fights. He's bullying opinions instead of trying to actually discuss/scumhunt/do fucking anything.

I still have crosshairs on Mantis because of what Gedak said. I trust Gedak. That's the only player I trust.

And fuck you nacho. My psyche king vote was the most obvious, transparent, predictable things ever. If you bother to read the thread, you'll see that I was calling Psyche confirmed town since uct flipped scum. But you're right. It's super suspect I tried to get my most confirmed town read a power role. Yup.

[Lord Mhork]

Also how the hell is my psyche kingvote anywhere close to suspect. Explain that fucking bullshit

I'm not getting deadline lynched. That won't happen. I want Smudger or mantis. Hell I'll even jump to Rach to get rid of a slot that's not even playing anymore because ANY of those three options are better than my mislynch.

[Lord Mhork]

You all suck. Literally. I hate this game on every level. I hate that you can't see how fucking scummy Smudger is. He's not attacking scum. HES JUST ATTACKING ME. A claim in no way clears someone so godawful terrible. All he's done is vote me for being 'childish'. He's pretentious arrogant scum and you all are too fucking blind and/or stupid and/or his buddy to see this.

Town deserves to lose this on so many levels. Also if I were scum why the FUCK would I not have just jumped on Rach for an easy lynch. None of you are actually looking at the game. None of you are playing. If any if you put even the tiniest ounce of thought in the game, you would see that scum me MAKES NO SENSE.

Hell there are people voting me BECAUSE OF SETUP SPECULATION. How is no one else seeing red flags? What is wrong with all of you.

And finally I'm seriously pissed off because I couldn't give this game my full attention. Literally all Mastin did was ask me for my reads and promise to do things. In short this game has been fucking awful for me.

And Smudger. Get off your god damn high horse. Seriously. You are not a scum hunting god and you have no reason or right to treat me the way you do. Seriously. Your condescending attitude has actually been ruining this game for me.

VOTE: smudger

Voting the fucking SCUM, people. Actually play the god damn game

[Lord Mhork]

Oh I'm at L-1. Shocker.

I'm the town 1-shot bulletproof. I'm Lewis Montgomery, the Cynical Critic. My PM mentions that I have written some bad reviews and now am too paranoid to go anywhere without my jacket.

PEDIT:
Nacho you should know full well this isn't fake rage. This is frustration at one of the dumbest towns I've ever had the misfortune of playing with. What was your case on me again? Oh right. 'Lol deadline flashwagon'
Cause those always work ya know.

You never answered my questions either.

PEDIT:
minor fucking flailing. I'm so pissed off with everything and everyone here. Smudger, fuck you. Nacho, I thought you were a better player, why are you pushing a flash wagon with no case? Rach and Trollie where the fuck are you? Alpa how can you say you like my slot and the vote me? Mantis just what the fuck is your playing even?

[Lord Mhork]

I don't even have a targeted ability! How did you get that kind of result

[Lord Mhork]

I'm not using it as an alignment tell. I'm saying it's not scummy or suspect

And all smudgers posts to me have been calling me childish it a child or 12 or whatever the fuck variation he wants and acting like a condescending snob. Maybe he's lying about being a watcher. Maybe he's a scum watcher. Every single one of his posts since day one have felt like they have come from scum. Every single one. They're greasy slimy snobby and so scummy it hurts. Don't try to belittle or strawman my argument into being me wanting him dead for being condescending. I want him dead because he's scum.

PEDIT:
I wouldn't be nearly as furious at Mastin if I hadn't asked twice before his sudden replace out to let me just take over on my main. I lost a lot of days not remembered to check the alt and Mastin wasn't doing shit there either.

Why can Smudger not be a scum watcher? Why can't mantis be scum? Hell if were going to make bad deadline lynches, why not just take Rach who should have replaced out forever ago?

PEDIT:
Oh my god. I hate this so much right now. I'm going to be lynched purely because you have a big name and none of these other players care even remotely about playing the game.

Look. I'm town. I've been trying to play this game as best I can. I don't want to be lynch. I'm not mislynched. It doesn't happen. Can you please give this game some real thought? Maybe a read through before you lollynch me?

PEDIT:
Yes psyche. Yes I have. Therefore your only assumption would be that I am scum who tried to kill him. Here's the thing though--

why the fuck would I kill him when he and Mastin were getting along so well

?

[Lord Mhork]

This isn't dramatic. Yes there's pent up rage but it's irl and I don't figure you want to hear me bitch about that too.

And sure. But in the POE is Smudger and mantis too. MUch much much better lynches than me

[Lord Mhork]

But psyche. I don't know how your role is supposed to work. I didn't target anyone. I haven't all game. Maybe someone fucked with your results.

[Lord Mhork]

BRO claimed PR? When?

[Lord Mhork]

This is absolutely stupid. Smudger is scummy as scum can get. All his posts are greasy and slimy. He's not scum hunting. He's just surviving. He's coasting through not getting lynched and trying to stay alive. He's playing like scum.

PEDIT:
THATS NOT TRUE. IVE BEEN SAYING THESE PEOPLE ARE BETTER LYNCHES 'CAUSE THEYRE SCUMMY AS FUCK AND I AM TOWM

you're not even reading. You're just pushing. You're pushing a wagon that's going to go through at deadline because deadline wagons always end up like that and when I flip town you're just gonna day 'wools shoulda played better' and move on.

I hate you all. This is worst game I've ever had the misfortune of playing. Town deserves a painful agonizing loss.

[Lord Mhork]

Fuck yo hi have. I'm on my phone because this shit happened at school.

Fuck. You. Nacho.

[Lord Mhork]

I don't even with this game. You all have actually ruined theatre for me.

Just lynch that fucking scummy scumfuck of a fucker Smudger when I'm gone. He's a shit player. He's scum. I posted a case as best I could but you just ignored it

I hate arrogant players so much

OH MY FUCKING GOD NACHO YOU DONT NEED TO POST A FUCKING CASE. ANYONE AND THEIR MOTHER CAN SEE THAT RACH IS REALLY TOWN EVEN THOUGH SHES BEEN DOING LESS THAN SHIT THIS GAME.
Goid job. You can point out the obvious. Want a fucking scummy for it?

[Lord Mhork]

Just hammer me. I'm sick of this

[Lord Mhork]

No I said he was slimy. He was coasting. He's trying not get lynched instead scumhunting

[Lord Mhork]

We don't even know where the probabilities came from. I mean somehow no action = 80% likely to act. Which is also borderline bastard modding if you ask me.

[Lord Mhork]

Mantis, psyche is basically confirmed town after him and uct fighting.

[Lord Mhork]

They were competing deadline wagons started by one another. I suppose there's a wide outside shot at it being an elaborate gambit, but I doubt scum would be so suicidal

[Lord Mhork]

I thought I was voting Smudger. Turned out I never did, so I fixed that

[Lord Mhork]

I AM NOT A FUCKING YOU ARROGANT CONDESCENDING PRICK

[Lord Mhork]

I AM NOT A FUCKING YOU ARROGANT CONDESCENDING PRICK

[Lord Mhork]

Fucking child*

[Lord Mhork]

You have ruined this game for me Smudger. I'm sick of you. I'm tired if reading your posts. I'm done.

Consider my vote on Smudger for the rest of the game. He's the scum and you all are too blind to see anything

[Lord Mhork]

Psyche has been kinged forever

[Lord Mhork]

I...I have words about this game but they're reserved for when I'm awaker.

[Lord Mhork]

>.>

What were all the play abilities supposed to be?

[Lord Mhork]

Ok so normally I don't compose big posts about games because I'm usually super chill about the results and am totally ok with losing. However this game was different to me and for some reason affected me in a way no other game has thus far. So yeah. I'm gonna ramble a bit to try to clear my head and hopefully make some closure happen.

Ok so first of all I'm going to say that I do not feel this was a balanced game, and that it was really townsided. What we have here is a 3:10 setup with the following roles:
~Misdirecting Godfather: the role is clearly the strongest in a vacuum, however I'm not sure of how useful it actually ended up being. While there was a cop, misdirector means that I could still get pinged by a scumteam dude. In addition if the costumer hits me, all of a sudden my claim is rendered absolutely void and I appear to be lying. And then there is the tracker who can try to follow me and catch 'me' doing something to someone else and appearing to lie about not doing it. Then there was a watcher role which directly renders my ability void. Overall I think this was probably the strongest scum role, but it was still a very watered down godfather-lite.

~Doublevoteish giver thing?: Whatever uct's role was supposed to be, no one understood it and I don't think it was nearly as powerful as you thought it would be. A) if he had actually known what he was doing and it was revealed to consistently 'randomly' hit a guy who then flips scum, people easily could figure the pattern out and narrow the pool down to whomever gets hit by the vote. B) he was so confused that I don't think he ever actually used it. The wording here definitely needed improvement, and moreover the power level needed to be jacked up. Maybe an actual king doublevoter. Maybe a flat double voter. As it was, he was a named goon.

~Sorta semiextra killer of people if they target someone if he finds them guy: I literally have no idea what this was supposed to be. You have a scum role conditional on finding a town role with and ability that is conditional on someone visiting said town role. I mean I can understand why you thought it was powerful since it would be extra free mafia kills, but the Lead died early leaving us with another named goon. In addition the odds of him and another PR targeting the same person in one night are super duper tiny. He should have had something happen when his love died. Literally anything at all.

As it was, I view this scum team as basically two goons and a weaker godfather. There was almost no actual night power here.

Now the town:
~6 VTs. Honestly with the pitiful power of the scum here, I think 7 or 8 would have been a much better number of VTs. Especially with kinging bringing in more abilities, but that's a whole other section.

Sleepwalker: If I understand this role correctly, it's either a weaker tracker or a bodyguard. I like this. It's really like the flexibility of this and I think it's a cool idea. I don't think that town needed this much extra power and flexibility though.

Cop: A cop is a cop. This is a super powerful role, and this goes without saying. Like, this should have been the only solid town PR and it should have been the strongest. Cop confirms townies. In a game where you're looking for conftowns to king with mega abilities, cop is a MASSIVE ROLE. It does basically everything the town needs. This alone, I feel, balances the game. Cop and 9 VTs vs weak godfather and 2 goons with this kinging would have worked.

Doc/Vig: This was far too powerful in my opinion. You have an unlimited-shot vigilante who can also decide to not shoot to not accidentally hit townies and can still double as a doc. Both of them can fuck over the scum's one ability: killing in the night. Since that's really all scum had with regard to targeting abilities in the night, this one player is basically better than the entire scum team. In fact not even basically. He could do everything scum could and more

and was town

. This plus cop already means that balance is MASSIVELY in favor of the town. Also follow the cop can turn on with no issues.

Flavor Cop: This was just icing on the cake for the town with the added bonus of directly making my role into confscum should they claim. It's a cool idea and all, but town did not need this in any way, shape, or form on any level. This demonstrates how utterly overpowered this town was.

In addition each of these town roles was perfectly clear and powerful, while two of the scum roles didn't even really makes sense at all. In short, this game was massively town sided.

Now for the kinging abilities:
First of all I'm going to come flat out and say this: you should have expected king abilities to go to the town 9 times out of 10. Let me put it this way: town controls the majority of the king votes. Because of that, they only need one strong town read to make sure the ability goes to town. That means that scum's only tactic is to either BECOME the strongest town read or campaign hard and hope that their buddy doesn't flip and make them look bad. In addition, with the PRs you gave town, you should honestly never have expected a single king ability. Ever.

Keeping that in mind, the abilities:
Cyrano: NOT as powerful as you think it is. At all. A scum being able to 'fake' and IC post does not make up for them having no power at all. This was basically a way for town PRs to get their role info out without outing themselves. Pure town upside; hard to reach town maybe-upside

Midsummer: Does this confirm townies to one another? If so, how does this help scum? If it let's scum claim mason and have you endorse it, is this role not bastard modding? As for town, though, it's yay more copping with pure upside.

Antigone: Bullshit watcher role. How did you determine percentages? Also, this is another pure 100% town role. Like, why would scum want this? Ever? I mean maybe scum uses this to try to find PRs, but then it doesn't even do that for them. It's a pure town role.

Equus: I don't understand this role on any level.

Hair: This is not good. How does this help scum? What does it do except concentrate results and give pure upside to town.

[Lord Mhork]

tl;dr: this game was so far town sided that scum should have just been all N1 Suicidals for the amount of stuff they could do

I will be on later to do more personal statements on players and to ramble about how replacements actually ruin games for everyone.

[Lord Mhork]

In this game, i do not consider it an antitown role. Town had enough sheer info power to narrow the pool massively enough that a vig could just operate as a second lynch.

Maybe normally, but it was definitely not here. It was just more sheer town power.

[Lord Mhork]

Honestly the problem was that the town was given, as has been said, a metric fuckton of power.

I think this is a big issue with designing games too. People are far too worried about scum taking over and using their abilities and fucking with the townies who are always apparently too lolderp to do anything and are completely dependent on the Night Play to do anything. The day is supposed to be the

town's

phase to do what townies are supposed to do best: hunt scum with words and votes. This isn't epicmafia or IRC. There's a reason our days last forever. It's to

talk

. The faction that has the most control over the night should definitely be the scum. It's their thing. They are the informed minority. They need the powers and the killing in order to deal with the sheer volume of the town.

On that note, the town should not be so independently strong. That is my opinion on the matter. Mafia is a

team game

. It's a game of developing reads and developing trust between players who are looking for town to help them take out scum. That's the point. When it starts being a game of lolderp where you can have a town full of VIs saved by one decent player with a power role, there is an issue with the balance. I think this is also part of the reason why VI and too scummy to be scum are so prevalent as they are. But that's a whole other rant. I think mods and designers do need to stop trying to think of scum as being the bad guys against the town though. In reality they're just two factions differing in numbers. Their balance of power should reflect that they are innately weaker numerically.

Player Thoughts:
Trollie and Uct: it was nice scumming with you I guess. I do rage a lot for the loss, but it wasn't just your fault and I shouldn't have blamed you as harshly as I did. While I would have loved it if y'all had done less lurking and were more active buddies, I appreciate how much of a morale crusher this game was. Please don't take my angry rantings to heart; y'all did well with what you had.

Alpa: I don't remember a lot of your play. I guess you were fairly obv town enough though that mastin wanted to make you mega obvtown in all our postings. While I wish I had fought him on it now and pushed your mislynch, good game on being obv town in your own way.

MafiaSSK: I honestly don't remember much of what you did at all, but good game.

P_A: Good job dying I guess. Your death helped fuck us over, so props there.

Rach: You need to stop lurking or replace out when you can't play. I legit

HATE

that you lurking a game to death is as big a town tell as it is. It's not fair. Please don't pick up games you can't play. Please.

Psyche: Good game I guess. It was interesting playing with you and seeing your style. Remember that people are not sensible and what might make sense from a numerical/statistical/psychological perspective may not actually be a fact. Other than that, good job being obvtown.

twicetherice: I don't remember you at all. Sorry.

Smudger: Smudger... Oh Smudger... I will not apologize for what I have said at all. As has been said to me, you lost your fictitious highground when you called me a dickhead. My honest opinion of you is that you are an arrogant, condescending, ageist prick. This isn't just ad hominem attacking either. What you did this game was intensely antitown and don't you dare try to excuse your behavior because I happened to have received a scum PM. Nothing excuses the way you were treating me and the comments you made with the attitude you had.
A) I am not a child. I am not a 12 year old. I am not an immature kid who shouldn't be playing mafia. You have no right to say any of these things. Especially when I made it clear how much I hated that you were saying it,

you kept doing it.

That is wrong on basically every level. It's antitown because it becomes attacking the player not the play and guess what: getting me to feel awful and hate the game and want to replace out is NOT playing to your win condition. Please check your attitude the next time you act in the shitty way you do because that person might not be able to brush it off as well as I did.
B) I am not a bad mafia player. I am not incompetent. Truth be told, I'm a rather decent player. I've been on this site for over two years. I know the game. I know the strategy. I know how to play. You have no right on any level whatsoever to come in here and treat me like incompetent trash and explain to me how I don't know what I'm doing. Here's the big take home message: I am better at this game than you are. Treating me as anything less because you 'don't like my attitude' or you think I'm 'acting like a child' is INSANELY antitown and also a genuinely awful thing to do. Just because you're 40 or 50 or whatever does not make you smarter than me or better. Discrediting a slot for non-game related reasoning is super shitty and anti town.
C) You have no right to be as arrogant as you are. You are not the best player on this site. You are not better than me. At best, we can be on equal footing. You need to come of your manic, narcissistic high and realize that people think differently than you do. There are players who play the game differently than you do.

You have to respect that

. You need to learn a lot of respect if you want to move forward in the game. It's just a fact.

There reason you need to learn all this? Simple. You know why a ton of people were doubting you? In short it was because you were playing a terribly scummy game. Your attacks against me were bad. All your ad hominem were bad. Your condescension and ageism were terrible. The only reason you lasted as long as you did was because the game itself was broken hard. You have a ton to learn here, and, while you'll never listen to me because of whatever contrived reason you've invented, this is the truth.

To everyone except Smudger, I apologize for cussing up a storm and getting really pissy. I was rather, understandably, I believe, upset with the way this game went. I feel like I was fucked over by literally everything and everyone possible.

Nacho: Props on being the smartest person in the town. While I am insanely pissed off that you lynched me like you did and I feel like it shouldn't have happened like that, I do not deny that lynching in that pool of the three non confirmed towns, while a testament to the unbalance of the game, was the optimal play. I do seriously wish that you were much less arrogant and I wish that people weren't all 'omg nacho' like you're a scumhunting god, but that's w/e. You did good. You forced the town to actually start playing and for that I respect you.

On that topic though, I wish that people would stop just calling a player town and being all 'either they win us the game or we lost because they're really good.' That's super lazy and shitty town play and should really stop. Actually play the CURRENT game instead of waiting for a high profile player to come in and win it for you.

BROseidon, I never actually really read your posts. Mastin said you were conftown by meta and i was all w/e about it. Good game though.

Along that vein, I'm very much dissatisfied with my hydraing experience here and I'd like to make a couple of quick points.
A) a hydra is not an excuse to spectate the game and give occasional thought. You are playing the game just as much as your partner is. It is your RESPONSIBILITY to remain caught up and capable of discussing it. 'I'm just gonna sheep your reads' is a shitty thing to do. If I wanted to solo a game, I'd play solo.
B) If you don't have time to play, leave the hydra. I had a terrible experience here and I don't want to repeat it. I asked mastin to just let me take over at least two times because I kept forgetting to check the thread and there was no activity from him anywhere. Then he picked the exact wrong time and suddenly did a big replace out thing. That's a dick thing to do. It's terrible to string along a partner and then suddenly bail. However that's more for my replacements rant.

To the rest of you: there is more than one head on a hydra. Words do not describe how upset I was at the beginning of the game when people were scumreading my slot because mastin wasn't obvtowning. (In reality he wasn't posting at all). Treat the slot as one player. Look at it. Look at what it says. Don't be LAZY about this.

Finally replacements. Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh replacements. If this game has taught me nothing else, it is that replacements ruin games. Rather, people who replace out ruin games.
A) Flaking is bad in hydras. When you leave your partner stranded and alone, it's a dick thing to do. All of a sudden you have to answer by yourself for scummy things your partner did. It's just a bad thing to experience
B) Flaking is bad in general. Look, mafia is a commitment. That's, like, the slogan of the site. That's why it bothers me to no end when we have players like RachMarie who will sit and do nothing for a game and get town read for it, or players like Micro who will come in, say like two things, and then replace out. It's shitty. It fucks up the game. It shouldn't be done.
C) Town view: replacements force towns to revist old reads on slots. While it's totally awesome to rereads and make sure your reads are right, replacements are just awful. People look at the motivation, the timing, the wording. All that. It's bad. You shouldn't be able to clear people like that. It isn't right.
D) Scum view: It's the shittiest thing every to have to convince a slot 5 times over that you're town. Now, I know a lot of you all are gonna be all 'herp the derp you're scum scum better or you deserve to lose.' This, first of all, goes back to me SCUM ARE NOT THE BAD GUYS idea, but moreover it's a sure unfun and unbalanced experience. Let's look at the Antimony slot. Antimony came in scum reading me for bad reasons and looked scummy for it. He would have been an awesome mislynch, but then he replaced out. In came Gedak. Gedak was a godsend for us because he had enough bad reads and enough conviction to feasibly make is happen. Also he was super obv town. All of the sudden I have to 180 on an easy ML target. That's not fair. It's frankly stupid, but I respect that Gedak was good at his job there. Then he was town reading me and had awesome reads I could pursue. Then he left.

By the way @Mod:
I fail to see how on any level it is ok for a mod to modkill a player for pushing someone confirmed town to them. Godfathers are a thing. Bastard moddery is a thing. Plus you said scum could use that ability to. What you did was sketch as all hell, and if you were the reason for Gedak's replace out, there's a good chance I will never do another game by you again.

Then Micro came. Micro was a super weak player and I could keep my obvtown read on him as he stumbled around and made a target of himself. we were finally doing well until Nacho came in. He fucked up the balance. He didn't have time to look at my work of appearing town. He just came in, found the lynch pool, and tunneled whichever he felt like (read: me). Good at him for doing it. That was not fair though on any level.

When you replace out, you help kill the game and the enjoyment and the balance. Yeah I'm bitter scum about this, but if it wasn't enough that I was fucked over by the mod's design, my hydra partner, and weaker scummates, I also had to deal with a constantly shifting slot and a new pair of eyes over and over.

Replacements ruin games.

So yeah. I was definitely not satisfied with this game, and I do feel like I have the right to be so.

[Lord Mhork]

Gedak was ruining the game for town, nacho was ruining it for scum.

Guess what? If people stuck with the game, there wouldn't be this issue.

[Lord Mhork]

Oh I know that people read the person they know more of. However someone actually said they didn't know I was the other head. That severely pissed me off since I was the only one actually posting.

[Lord Mhork]

I don't recall calling any of them VIs.

And mastin was just involved in my long list of rah what the fuck is this game even. Like I said, normally I'm totally chill with a loss. Not this one. I like my play to actually count towards something instead of losing because everything decided to fuck me over at once.

I prolly did fare better solo purely because people stop expected mastin to do anything. Like 90% of LMII was me. Once people stop expected a catchup post and scumhunting awesomeness that mastin was supposedly going to bring, people actually read my slot and were all 'gee, maybe he's actually town.'

Maybe it's not necessary, but it does make me feel a lot better to rant in the open. I don't think you quite understand how pissed I was when he made the replacement request in thread. Which was, of course, the first time I heard of that.

Rach I don't know what you want me to say. Life sucks. It's hard. You couldn't play and should have replaced out. That's all I can tell you.

[Lord Mhork]

That double vote doesn't make sense. Plus that makes it even weaker. Please TAM. Tell me how you thought scum team was powerful. I want to know.

[Lord Mhork]

Well I'm fine with releasing it, but I don't remember much posting there. I think I ended up saying more in the dead qt

[Lord Mhork]

Ok let's go by this step by step then. From the sound of your post, you believed my role to be the strongest, yes? Then please address the points where you gave town several roles that either directly countered or, worse, rendered my 'bonus' a disadvantage. You gave me a role that easily fucks me over, a role that I still have no idea what it's supposed to do except suck and out scum members, and the most hyper conditional role I have ever seen.

This scum team was not powerful. Not on any level or to anyone's eyes. Whatever you and Empking saw here was, for lack of a better phrase, completely totally and 100% wrong.

Now not only was scum team massively crippled from the get go, but you grossly overstocked the town with power roles. You gave then THREE investigative roles, a doc/vig, and massive versatility. Town shouldn't gage this kind of flexibility. Scum should.

Your rationale for all those plays was also insanely antiscum. They were all massively protown on every level with only vaguely situational scum uses that only really exist if you squint your eyes really hard and cock your head to the side. Seriously. Every one of those just punished scum even further for daring to EXIST in your grossly townsided setup. And as for that sudden VT info windfall and your comment that 'town would really need help' there, fuck that noise. That, to me, is terrible design on every level. Town shouldn't have inevitability in mafia. You can't punish scum for not winning fast enough, especially when the town has docs a several townies confirmed every night. Seriously. It's not your job as mid to make sure that town has a good shot at winning over time. You need to BALANCE. Plus your punishing mafia for slow townie play which they would have needed to have any chance up get a real power role.

I also have to ask you two things. One: why the hell would you give the weakest role in the game to a SCUM MEMBER who are, by definition, innately weaker by numbers. Two: why would your other scum member be a third party? Like, how does that even follow? I really need you to explain how this game was winnable in any level by scum. All I see here is you, as mod, punishing scum for existing.

Now as for expecting town to 'play dumber,' that is a terrible way to design any faction. You don't load then up with power roles and pray they don't use them right. That's a sure way to a grossly broken game. All power roles should be considered in ALL their possible uses and with regard to ALL interactions with ALL other roles. This game felt like you slapped a ton of roles on the the town and a few roles on scum that were wordy and thus seemed more powerful while doing less than nothing when the town not only countered but crippled them.

Now I'm actually really pissed at your comment that you feel as though scum should have 'played smarter.' Like, what does that even mean? What should we have done? Who are you to look down on us after you designed this? Sure I had lurkery teammates and I was mega emotionally compromised and ragey, but those are COMMON scum traits. These happen across the board and the fact that other games can have scum not be expected to have every player act on Don Corleone status and not be a complete blowout like this fustercluck should say a lot about the game.

In short, you made a massive, game destroying mistake--both you AND Empking--when you tried to balance a game assuming all VI town and all master manipulator scum. You CANT do that. It's not fair to the town because it was won for then from the get go. It's not fair for scum because they have to play a hand where everything is stacked against then. Frankly unbalanced games like this are a waste of everyone's time.

And I'm actually a little sick at your proposed solution for outing the scum team. That would be like have you bold one of our names in every vote count and hope that town doesn't notice. Like that is NOT ok on ANY level.

Again you have absolutely no right to call scum dumb for losing this. I'm ridiculously offended at that.

And the point of all this isn't to make you feel bad or tell at you. I'm trying to get you to understand exactly how terribly broken this game was. A game like this SHOULD NOT exist. It is your responsibility as moderator to make sure all your factions have equal chances at winning. You look like you're trying to write this off as slightly townsided and dumb scum fucked themselves over. That is NOT what happened

[Lord Mhork]

Exactly. Scum definitely played suboptimally, but you know who else did? Town.

[Lord Mhork]

Psyche you cannot honestly think that the town overall played a good game. Half the town was playing anti town or wasn't here. Y'all won because this game was not balanced on any level.

I mean congratulations and all, but don't try to play this as a mega win for you guys.

[Lord Mhork]

You all got past it via investigation results. Those game from the tons if power that the mod gave the town. The only reason I was lynched was like archer results and PoE from townies role confirmed.

[Lord Mhork]

Like not to put you all down, but the towns day game was kinda awful. The only real lynch you got was uct.

[Lord Mhork]

What the hell? Truth is the truth. Both sides played poorly. TAM can't say the reason we lost was due to us being stupid. Town won because they were hard core pumped with power roles. Where is the disconnect?

[Lord Mhork]

Because. Of. Role. Confirmations.

[Lord Mhork]

Dude. Smudger was taken off for his claim. Alpa had a blindingly obvious town claim. Nacho had a town claim with confirmed townies. If BROseidon lived, he would have been confirmed town too. Then there's your watcher ability. The mason chat. All of that.

Town did super basic strategy of lynching from within the conf town. Good job for that. The point is that it's hard to be impressed when the pool gets absurdly small do quickly via the mod.

[Lord Mhork]

Mantis, my avatar is a cartoon caricature of De Niro..

oh ya, there it is.. i see it now :p


mhork - there may have been a lot of town specials, yes. but i mean, a mod can't predict how it's going to turn out. even you said in the scum qt, that i shouldn't have been targeted for n1 kill in case i was protected. but you guys did anyway... so that was a bad move. stuff like that

i don't like seeing criticisms of the mod when they take their own time and efforts to create a game for others to play.

Ok I think you're missing the point of my posting. I am not giving TAM shit for the sake of giving him shit. I'm giving him shit because his game was legit unbalanced and skewed absurdly in favor of the town. You can't argue that this game was hugely put in town's court and was nigh-unwinnable by scum outside of a once in a blue moon thing where town didn't play.

And I'll tell you why I'm posting this too. Why this unbalance makes me this upset. A game of mafia is a huge time, energy, and emotion commitment, at least if you're doing it right. Yeah, yeah thanks to the mod for putting this together, but if it's unbalanced to the point of being basically unwinnable for a faction, you just wasted that factions time and energy. I could have, rather than playing a game i was doomed to fail in, played in another game where I had a shot. This was a HUGE waste of my time. It wasn't fun. It wasn't balanced. That's why I'm making a big deal about this. This is a legit modding concern and I'm frankly shocked this got any endorsements at all. Like, what were you thinking, Empking?

But yeah. Don't try to tell my I shouldn't make comments on what I view as a gross violation of basic moderation courtesy.

PEDIT:
Oh yeah everything about the Gedak force replace/modkill threats was bad on pretty much every level. Like totally

[Lord Mhork]

Thank you for doing the math. I have no idea how to actually calculate that.