Destiny Mafia II: The Rule of Fates [Endgame]

[Nuwen]

I'm missing something...

Why aren't you joining the Nuwen wagon?

[Nuwen]

Vote Bulbazak

self-conscious AND not bothering to pressure anyone voting for me, even though in his mind the wagon is questionable. just neutral comments until something else forces his hand.

[Nuwen]

Sounds like you're making shit up under pressure.

If you really thought that outside influence was coming into play... you could check. The neutral question crap is just a way to sidle into the thread without having to commit to a real read until the rest of the playerbase phones in.

[Nuwen]

Second question he could look up for himself (and it doesn't really have much bearing on the game - if the question mattered he probably would have been galvanized to check it out w/ search). Just trying to "interact" with me before the OMGUS drops.

[Nuwen]

The aspects Fate are town...

not sure if dunce corner or slip that katsuki doesn't have a PM w/ Fate in it. vanilla PM on front pages says signs point to fucktarded.

[Nuwen]

Not even kind of.

[Nuwen]

1. It's inaccurate. Bulba's response reads as genuine initially.
2. It is an incredibly closed accusation that stunts discussion and 'forces' votes, which is not what you want from a serious post on page 1.
3. These together make strong sense from a scum perspective as they shift all focus from Nuwen to her target, using unfounded accusations while not allowing discussion of the issue. This lets scum push their agenda (a mislynch) without having to be overly wordy about it, which is something is going to get messy and telling with this playerlist.

Which means Nuwen is scums.

You call Bulba a

mislynch

but haven't demonstrated how he's of a town mind. Explain to me what "genuine" (your word, not mine) qualities make these posts more likely to come from town than scum in the context of P1:

Vote Kuribo

I've recently gotten on a Binding of Isaac kick, and I want my Meat Boy!

I'm missing something...

I was wondering if I just missed something in the sign up thread or something. None of the votes necessarily stood out to me as scummy, just somewhat organized.

Go ahead and bold the sections that stand out to you as town.

What you call "pushing an agenda" is actually

starting the game

. A player behaved in an a-typical, non-townish way to the development of my wagon by feigning confusion about its' seriousness. That's very scummy, more scummy than anything up to that point, because town are much more likely to shrug and commit one way or another without worrying about their appearance too much. Not to appear absent on the subject, he asks irrelevant questions about history he could very well look up himself if it was actually THAT important.

Confusion as a reaction to game development (without earnest attempt to resolve that confusion) is preeeeetty high on the list of scum posting.

[Nuwen]

I stopped going outside of experiential meta awhile ago.

I'm busy enough as it is, I don't need to add reading another game to the list. It's much better if people give me a summary of what's going on. And given this player list, who I'm assuming played in the last game, I would imagine there'

s an inside joke I'm missing.

I stopped going outside of experiential meta awhile ago. I'm busy enough as it is, I don't need to add reading another game to the list. It's much better if people give me a summary of what's going on. And given this player list, who I'm assuming played in the last game, I would imagine there's an inside joke I'm missing.

This is horseshit. Confusion followed by EXCUSES. TWO of them. He can't account for the town motivation behind his behavior because there

is no town motivation

, so he's moved to posting shit excuses. P classic scum bargaining: "What I did wasn't scummy what I did was just asking what I did wasn't scummy.... WAIT I'M SORRY MY CAT CAUGHT ON FIRE PLS // I DON'T EVEN CARE //"

Reck, one clownfuck from your contemporary games is equal to every other clownfuck. I don't listen to the names. I haven't played with this guy before, but the behavior pattern has a pretty obvious explanation which I am currently narrating. He isn't approaching this game with a town mindset.

[Nuwen]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p5564197

Espeonage, you haven't explicitly highlighted the things that tell you Bulb is town. Why did you call him a mislynch if you can't easily point to the qualities that make him town?

[Nuwen]

The rest of you trying to be snowflakes and doing your own thing should weigh in on Bulb next post plz

[Nuwen]

I'm pretty confident that I can read Katsuki. Do you see me voting for him? So we're moving on.

[Nuwen]

I'm pretty confident that I can read Katsuki.

Bully for you. I'm pretty confident I'm a separate entity capable of independent thought. Do you see me unvoting?

You're welcome to be useless, but I'm going to let everyone know it.

Here are two narrative scenarios:

1. Katsuki opens his PM and skims it quickly. He doesn't notice that Fates are now the town faction (Fates were scum in the previous Destiny mafia). He finds a tunnel and starts traveling the long road, like he does in EVERY game. He claims something that

doesn't fit with flavor

to try and get his read lynched, but he mucks it up because skim. Seems about par for town course.

2. Katsuki, as scum, decided that

Nuwen

, a prominent, stubborn, argumentative old fart is the

best D1 lynch evar

. To get the job done, he carelessly attempts to claim something damning... but botches the flavor, even though there's a Vanilla PM right in the front page. This isn't careless (which Katsuki is - but there's a difference between

careless

and

pants on elbow retard-mode

.

Stage one is a very reasonable explanation for what's happened so far, so it's probably close to the truth. Stage two would require some serious out-of-character stupid for it to be reality. Katsuki isn't dumb, just cavalier and committed to his tunnel-style of finding scum.

I don't really care about horseshit third party speculation D1. That's a waste of my time.

Scum

might care about a mystery third party now, because they already know what's what.

So tell me why your strong, independent black woman read is more accurate than mine.

[Nuwen]

I just figured "controller of fate" was a "who wears the pants" joke

and also this

he's still ruffled about Fate choosing to lick my icing and not his.

[Nuwen]

Your drunk self totally mentioned the two central wagons, it was worth your notice - you just didn't follow up with an opinion either way. Why drunk self conflict with what you're telling me now about that being a distraction? What are those wagons distracting from?

Explain why people should vote for you, please.

[Nuwen]

Also willing to sheep Nuwen if she's town because I remember how town shoulda sheeped her in Catch 22

why must you reopen old wounds ;_;

[Nuwen]

(#97 is @ ActionDan if that isn't immediately obvious)

[Nuwen]

I said you were prob joking Katsuki, but it helps to show that even if you're 4serious it doesn't make sense as a scum play. I always try to appeal to the general audience because TEAM GAME.

Spyrex is doing the helping. That's way better to me D1 than any of this crap:

Katsuki (1): RedCoyote
Kuribo (1): Bulbazak
SpyreX (1): ActionDan
Not Voting: Desperado/Nacho Hydra

Tack on Esp so his name isn't lost in the shuffle.

I'd drop Bulb if he did something town, but his resigned response to the wagon on him just reinforces that he's scum in my mind. I don't think I'm too blinded by conf bias. He's waiting for someone on his team to throw him a lifeline, but it's only coming in the form of a no-traction Nuwen wagon and these outlying votes with no wheels. RC is an okay good candidate because he's been trying hardest to make us focus on Katsuki.

DGB is ALL OVER the dartboard at this crucial consolidation junction, but her vote is in the right place so I don't really care.

[Nuwen]

oh and FAKEGOD is the other non-committal fuck who hasn't really done anything since unvoting Nuwen.

Say some stuff.

[Nuwen]

DGBs always all over the place day 1, even I don't try to read her that early

Nuwen, I'd say bulbas response to his wagon hasn't necessarily been scummy, it just don't look town to me

It's like "whaaaat what'd i doooooo"

def

[Nuwen]

Appealing to TAEM GAME is scummy really.

def not

[Nuwen]

RC is an okay good candidate because he's been trying hardest to make us focus on Katsuki.

I'm not buying. No one has addressed my concern with the wagon, so I won't be joining it for the foreseeable future.

And you can't attack me for voting Katsuki. I do it everytime I play with him. And then I get laughed into submission eventually. It's tradition. I'm even doing y'all a solid by giving up early.

You were serious. This is not happy-go-votey noogies, it's an earnest attempt to focus attention on Katsuki. I don't think there can be an alternative interpretation of "put under a microscope."

The rest of you trying to be snowflakes and doing your own thing should weigh in on Bulb next post plz

I'm not convinced it isn't playstyle yet, but you're getting there with respect to Espeonrage.

I think Katsuki's post needs to be put under a microscope here though, don't you? It's about you, after all.

~~~

If you "can't be convinced" Bulb is scum,

then who is scum right now

? The thing that sticks out to me the most is no followup to dropping your Katsuki case. You voted ActionDan because he asked you to, but your reads haven't progressed based on your modified view of the game.

[Nuwen]

Not interested in Reck D1. If he's around later that's another person I feel confident about reading.

Vote Bulbazak

self-conscious AND not bothering to pressure anyone voting for me, even though in his mind the wagon is questionable. just neutral comments until something else forces his hand.

no don't do this it's a trap, trust me.
i've gone down this road many a time.

Tell me more about why you don't want to vote Bulbz, because "I've been hurt before T_T" makes me just want to slap you with something phallic.

[Nuwen]

As scum, I haven't seen him having trouble committing to early reads. His "am I missing something?" in the organized Nuwen lynchwagon and suspicion of outside influence was more likely than not coming from a genuine place as opposed to "bullshit made up under pressure"; yes, he could have checked in the sign up thread and it was dumb that he didn't, but the early theory was definitely not something I would expect to see from scum Bulba when he could have placed that random vote and then shut the hell up because someone's getting lynched that's not his partner. I find his later explanations to be excuses, but they make some modicum of sense (I thought that the wagon was an inside joke from another game), which explains why he wasn't interested in your wagon and why he didn't pressure anyone on it.

The "I've been hurt before T_T" was relating to the fact that I've been in your same position a few times in the past and got slapped by a phallic townflip a few times in the past so you're working yourself up to a lynch frenzy that will culminate in Bulbazak getting lynched and everyone being disappointed then somehow forgetting Reck is scum again.

His reaction to my wagon was the sweet hawker aroma that got me in the door.

The confusion -> general absence // I DON'T EVEN CARE BRO in response to his wagon is what made me stay for dinner. You know that the first reason for voting/pressuring someone isn't always the most obvious reason they're scum, come on. I'm sure you read all of that, right? Focusing on his most could-be-neutral action and not talking about his response to being wagoned is a pretty strawman way to talk me down.

[Nuwen]

good morning

Going to remind you that Bulbz is a great candidate for bullets and other night visitations because ESP is pretty obv scum here.

Aside from that protection is cool because I think I've been very vocal about accurate scum reads and don't enjoy dying N1 every game.

Ad is 100% going to flip town. That's not even a question. If you need a summarybofnwhat occurred for catchup: AD had some kind of goodie that triggers when people vote for him. A lot of people voted for him to try out the tRigger. espionage hammers after calling AD TOWN EARLIER TODAY, and has spammed a couple pages trying to tell us AD COULD HAVE BEEN SCUM LIKEOMG.

IPad.post

[Nuwen]

T

The afterposts are what's most scummy to me though. Anyone can toss an awful hammer, but the way he tries to justify it to us afterwards doesn't line up with stuff he's said in the past:

@AD: I quite clearly said I hadn't read the intermediate pages. .

[and so I hammered at the first good opportunity without regard to game state, with the plan of explaining my scum read afterwards]

[shit I called AD town before, let me quote it to hang a lampshade over it]

[calling AD scum and saying he should have full-claimed is just as good as a case right?]

^inner monologue

[Nuwen]

Oh yes please there is sweet justice and sweeter still redemption

At reck's birthday later for more but post preview tells me esp spent a whole lot of words NOT CLAIMING

[Nuwen]

If you weren't fakeclaiming Kuri, and you do have a miller shot. I will take it as a scum claim if you use that before I have my result on you.

This is horseshit but at least we get to see scum thinking on their feet instead of rolling over and dying.

Skipping the de facto inno claim on someone already obv-town is nice touch

Phone post

[Nuwen]

Staeg isn't scum. Not a topic worth indulging.

[Nuwen]

Because as town he's a critical thinker and as scum he tries to be an actor. Read his final post of d1.

It's also an "easy" undiscussesd person to bring up when we have a bad claim to deal with.

[Nuwen]

"Policy lynch" are not the words to describe the guy who took too much posts // too much time to compose a claim that allows for an additional night of actions WHILE pinning down the guy with the gun. His claim is obviously intended to stay Kuribo's shot PERIOD because we are definitely going to vig scum, whether ESP or defaulting back to Bulbz
Phone post.

[Nuwen]

Nuwen is being way to bloodthirsty and tunneled to be town atm.

LOL

Someone link that team mafia game where I caught/tunneled 2/3rds of the scum day 1 and shot down every distraction with my bare hands

[Nuwen]

Fuck you.

I'm cop.

Can you ever articulate why I'm scum DGB, or ever been correct about me being scum? You being on the playerlist was why I held off joining the game.

On the other hand, you're ignorable if you don't let me have some chance as rebuttal.

Pity, because now my case, won't really be listened to. Seeing as wtf RC wagon out of nowhere, also without any inkling of reasons.

Breadcrumbed here when I first came under scrutiny.

You have really fucked with this game.

This isn't a breadcrumb.

[Nuwen]

That's definitely a breadcrumb

[Nuwen]

The miller drawback makes me think it's supposed to be a safeguard against too much positive feedback for town.

I'm going to summarize my thoughts on Espeonage so people can follow along:

Spoiler: long

• The hammer - Impulsive above all else and the rationale about why he did it didn't make sense. Anyone can do something sudden and be unable to explain it properly. Said that his role made ActionDan's more likely to be scum, lynched ActionDan because his lack of fullclaim was scummy in his eyes.
  
• Not full-claiming... if ActionDan's lack of fullclaim was scummy, I don't really see how town turns around and does the same thing. This betrays a lack of
  internal consistency
  to me, which is the thing I find scummiest of all. Even if town aren't aware of it, town usually maintain an internal narrative that accounts for their actions and deductive processes. Scum break the consistency mold because they often just need to achieve some end (like lynching ActionDan, or not getting lynched/shot himself)
  
• The investigate target: Kuribo

  I will literally tear through each and every one of you to get at him tomorrow
  
  
  One of espy's white knights is scum, regardless of his alignment

  Espeonage agrees that scum are among the people defending him,
  but seeds an investigation on Kuribo
  ? This is another reason why his claim is
  convenient
  rather than
  consistent
  .
  
  
• The breadcrumb - yep. Espeonage definitely planned to claim cop at some point.
  
• The way things played out - I expect scum w/ laid breadcrumbs to also have a claim prepared, which is the opposite of the way things played out. The scum perspective would want to smoothly claim out full flavor, results, etc. However I think the 'responsiveness' of Espeonage's claim could also be explained by him having time to make it up - it's possible that his original claim didn't fit the gamestate and he needed to edit it, and decided to make the role pin Kuribo's shot in place until tomorrow.

Espeonage if you claimed ANY FLAVOR AT ALL I missed it so full everything now plz

[Nuwen]

Reck stop being afk

[Nuwen]

Because as town he's a critical thinker and as scum he tries to be an actor. Read his final post of d1.

...so, because meta?

Because Staeg is my lovechild. He's a stronger townread than, say, Reck who is coasting and FakeGod who is currently lynching town and Espeonage whose claim is bad and Bulbz who is also lynching town and DGB who is ???? rainbows.

[Nuwen]

Reck is scum. Nacho's only definite read was that Reck was scum.

The post submitted thing is bullshit because I know Reck uses Chrome, and Chrome caches all forum posts when you press "back."

[Nuwen]

I see you,posting in the commune thread

Why aren't you talking to me? Waiting to see if people just ignore my read? Can't think of another excuse to cover your lie about losing a post?

[Nuwen]

I think Actiondan's role was to become Fate or something. His posts were all edited towards the end of the day, and I think Dan was the one voting for Rc.

[Nuwen]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... adeHanging
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... adeHanging

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... adeHanging

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... adeHanging

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... adeHanging

Espeonage quickhammer clownfuckery reads like the type of town thing I have nightmares about every time I go to bed. I pray to god there is something in this world with bullets that can shoot him dead so we can lynch Reck tomorrow and get back on track to lynches that aren't horrendous, but my optimism isn't exactly overwhelming me.

I'm not quite locked into a town read on DGB yet which highly worried me

she's scum with reck, hence the horseshit townread on him

These are Nacho's last posts of the day. This certainly doesn't say "I'M STILL IN RVS" to me.

The "I TOTALLY WOULDN'T DO THIS CHEEKY THING AS SCUM" is also a Reck scum angle 100%. He always thinks he can out-WIFOM people by doing sub-optimal or "obviously scummy" things... and then just gets caught for doing obviously scummy things. This isn't a characteristic specific to mafia, either. If you'd like another example, we played White Chapel last night and he took a route that basically ensured he'd get caught, just to try and WIFOM us into spreading out of the area he was in.

I also think the reason he's been AFK has been because he's in a game FULL of people who can read him. Town Reck would have gotten his free pass & shipped by now... but Reck's been absent because more than half the game has a pretty good handle on how to read Reck.

[Nuwen]

The post submitted thing is bullshit because I know Reck uses Chrome, and Chrome caches all forum posts when you press "back."

i didnt press back though, i clicked the link in the middle of the page that said "could not find server" and it took me to the ms.net splash page

And you didn't press "back" to save your awesome contribution post because...?

Because it didn't exist. Because you're afraid to produce any content at all besides neutral EXCUSES and ANGER AT SOMETHING NOT GAME-RELATED BROWSER GRRRRR because everyone can read you very well.

[Nuwen]

HANGING A LAMPSHADE

I can (and did) just read Reck.
Spyrex is SCD. You guys have been inside each others' heads for years. You think being "rusty" at PLAYING MAFIA transcends an understanding of how someone ticks?
DGB can definitely read Reck as scum. She was always one of the FIRST town to see through Reck's Godfather-style play at Balto meet, and she VERY VERY quickly figured out Reck's tendency to kneejerk bus that took the commune much longer to spot.
NACHO has a pretty good understanding of how Reck operates, and he's the one who DIED. You'll notice that Reck's initial defense to Nacho's suspicions was U DON'T KNOW ME @ Desperado, who I'm pretty sure didn't even post. I think this was to undermine how accurate Nacho's read was by attributing it to the other side of the hydra, who wouldn't possibly know Reck that well.

Nuwen, stop being afk

I see you,talking to Brock on League of Legends

Why aren't you talking to me? Waiting to see if people just ignore my read? Can't think of another excuse to cover your lies about why I'm scum?

I'm responding right now, and obviously paused to check out the Groupon Brock sent me. You are mad.

SO MAD

SO

SO

SO
MAD

[Nuwen]

shoot reck kuribo I am 100% sure on this one

[Nuwen]

All of this to say... she's trying to draw attention to me being inactive while KNOWING why I've been inactive and being PRESENT for half of it. The difference is that I don't really post in games on my phone when I'm hanging out with people and drinking, but she's trying to push me out into the spotlight with jumps in logic such as... "LOOK HOW INACTIVE RECK IS BEING" (even though she knows damn well why I've been out of it recently) & "IT'S BECAUSE HE'S SCARED OF A PLAYERLIST THAT CAN READ HIM" (even though nobody on the playerlist actually has a history of reading me well).

if you want to bring RL tells into this the fact that you admitted you hadn't even checked the game while drunk yesterday (even though Fate told you it was open) meant that you knew who would be dead already (because I know Reck would be HELLA CURIOUS, or at least ask 'AM I STILL ALIVE') but that's kiiiiinda reaching with the IRL game breakage.

but you started it so

[Nuwen]

So... which is it? Is Nuwen WRONG or is Nuwen SCUM?

Because I don't think you'd waste time telling scum why they're wrong about reading you. Reck is talking to me like I'm wrong and I'm town WHILE calling me scum, because

he's mad

so mad

[Nuwen]

First of all, there doesn't need to be past precedent for Reck to feel afraid of being

caught by quality players who can read his motivations

. Fear is fear, whether it's founded or unfounded.

Scum are above all NERVOUS

. I ABSOLUTELY believe Reck has been afraid to post until now that he's directly threatened and there's a dayvig in the game, and now his explosive reaction is a

culmination of all that nervous tension releasing

. I know he's had plenty of free time, despite his appeals to BUSY BUSY OTHER STUFF BIRTHDAY - he's had plenty of downtime to post between activities, especially

since the game's onset

.

I believe Reck, as town, would have made it his #1 priority to let us all know it quickly with some positive posts. He wouldn't have ignored the game until the game stopped ignoring him.

His reaction to my posts is utter crap. He's casing me because I'm the one who caught him, and will be the loudest voice against him. Nevermind that his own VOICE implies that he's addressing someone who is WRONG (not someone who is TRYING TO MANIPULATE THE TOWN INTO LYNCHING HIM OR THE OTHER STUFF SCUM DO).

[Nuwen]

the game needs to weigh in and pick sides first otherwise it's meaningless. He's spamming to get you to shoot him ASAP and not reveal the rest of his team.

[Nuwen]

http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/23883523#history

minimum 10 matches in 2 days, we'll say each averages ~20 minutes even though we know games can be much, much longer.

Yeah you've SURE had a lot on your plate that you couldn't take a couple minutes to read the thread & post between your hours of playing other games instead.

I think Reck is trying to spam-goad you into killing him, Kuribo, or maybe I'm just so infected with the confirmation bias that everything I see is red right now. I KNOW he is scum; everything he's doing is looking like scum flailing about in a 1v1 to me.

[Nuwen]

Except I'm not talking about your absence TODAY, but yesterday as well. I can't remember a single thing Reck did other than say NACHO U CAN'T READ ME BRO and vote for RC.

Until today's flurry you had like

TWENTY

posts total, which is the bottom rung of anyone in the game. IMO this GENERAL ABSENCE THROUGHOUT THE GAME CANNOT BE EXPLAINED ONLY BY A SERIES OF "OH I'M BUSY," BECAUSE THIS PERIOD OF NON-CONTRIBUTION AND GENERAL ABSENCE EXTENDS BEYOND TODAY.

I believe that as town, Reck would be much more likely to interact with the game and give THE LIST OF PLAYERS WHO CAN READ HIM the opportunity to confirm him as town

.

[Nuwen]

GENERAL ABSENCE is not a state described by a series of timestamps. GENERAL ABSENCE describes a bunch of posts that don't invest in the gamestate or commit to opinions.

The GENERAL ABSENCE was broken by Reck speculating about the nightkill, which IMO points directly

to Reck being scum

. I think Reck's priorities would be VERY different as town (like dealing the the claims in the game instead of ignoring them and asking for someone to give him an opinion to feed off of). Instead, after BEING GENERALLY ABSENT AND NON CONTRIBUTING TO GAME STATE his

first priority is to

:


Talk about who the night kill might implicate.... besides himself?

FUCKING GODDAMMIT I JUST SUBMITTED A POST AND IT SAID SERVER COULDN'T BE FOUND THEN TOOK ME BACK TO THE SPLASH PAGE

fuck it, it was all a summary of why Ansuz was the kill (because he's a threat) over other juicy N1 kill targets, and it came down to some of those N1 threats must be scum and Nacho must've elevated that slot's play above the other potential threats somehow

This also set me off because I think as scum, Reck finds something that makes him angry and uses that genuine anger as a way to appear genuine.

IN A LOL GAME SC

[Nuwen]

A little calmer

DGB could just sit back and let us tear each other to shreds if she were scum. Ditto RC Instead they're refocusing on prior reads and not going with the momentum of a 1v1-y situation.

[Nuwen]

No more for tonight. Fresh perspective and reevaluation. Right now I have 0 desire to be talked down.

[Nuwen]

vote espeonage

[Nuwen]

SCUM DEAD GET

[Nuwen]

vote Reck

1-2 1-2 1-2

[Nuwen]

Man, at quick glance I look scummy as shit this game.

did anyone actually read the article about Hanging a Lampshade

The original text said "Lone Wolf, Enlightenment Investigator" so it looked like he flipped as "Enlightenment" faction w/ Investigator role; Kuribo said he would investigate as Enlightenment after shooting. Fate fixed it to just say "Investigator" and I think his color comment was about blue text being town. The whole post is blue.

Kuribo's shot was MORE than fine. The people who actively defended Espeonage are NOT FINE, because it feels like they had to have known he was town to read him as town. The only thing close to "showing work" behind a town read on Esp is RC, who grappled with his read for a couple of days but seemed to conclude Esp was probably town. In my memory, FakeGod and Reck didn't even chase after Esp or really do much at all to interact directly with him, or tell us what qualities to Esp (besides hiding behind DON'T LYNCH R COP OMG) made him seem town. That's where I want to go next.

[Nuwen]

I'm also low on attention time for two days, starting tonight. My mommy is in town. :3

[Nuwen]

This is probably a game where I'll just sit here calling people scum and no one will listen woeisme why couldn't I have drawn a scum PM

You're not alone on this one, I'm voteparked.

Reck's addon is legit fyi and Lone Wolf + Esp's play = 3rd party on first blush.

How does that reaction make him town at all. Don't you agree that SCUM are the first to react/suspect third party factions, because they're the ones who'll be surprised by a not-town flip? Reck's confusion FITS the bill of scum reacting to ambiguity because he was trying to parse the flip as 3rd p / town ("it was grey"!), not scum/town like someone without info would.

And this is just the latest in a long series of pretty exclusively scum-motivated plays.

Yes, I did... but we're talking about a human being I lived with for a year or more and played mafia with every night and thus felt confident in reading versus Nuwen saying DGB read me right at that one meet that one time and thus I fear her in forum games.

who gives a fuck about the DGB strawman he's trying to attack,

I can read Reck.

Reck is trying to tell you all that he's not afraid of DGB's read accuracy

while simultaneously enjoying the comfort of her town read

, which has gone unquestioned by him. He was SO freaking grateful to be called town in a town vs. town soundoff and then dropped it all, because he's STILL trying to use stageplay anger as a platform to prove his towniness. Spyrex, I don't know why you don't see this clearly.

[Nuwen]

"I... I'm just a Lone Wolf... I'm not with anyone else."

oh for fuck's sake

MOD: was Espeonage a member of the mafia faction or was he a Serial Killer or was he something else

This is the post that comes to mind, and I think it's why Reck went WAAAAAY the fuck out of his way to tell us about "Lone Wolf" being highlighted in Grey (which isn't really ambiguous at all...)

The reason to think he was mafia was the original text of the post, which literally said "Lone Wolf, Enlightenment Investigator." I reaaaaally think Reck was trying to slip a towntell in there by saying 'IS MAFIA OR WHAT???' while REALLY asking 'IS HE A SERIAL KILLER?'

[Nuwen]

still want to lynch RC.

still think Nuwen's lying is scummy as ballsack but everyone else seems to think lying extensively is something town people do?

DGB is town; kuribo is either SUPER FUCKING BALLSY scum or town (leaning town obv); I want to believe(tm) that SpySpy can be my sanity townrock.

Bulbazak just looks scummy so IDFK how to read that shit

Staeg is lurking so PRETTY STANDARD

Katsuki came back in and gunned for Espeonage which seems really fucking town since it'd be stupid for Katsu to fuel the fire of a buddywagon when he was on the chopping block as well

Tell me how these reads have updated based on Espeonage flipping town.

[Nuwen]

Espy, are you sure you're not a vanilla-cop?

Lame question.

What kind of tone you think Staeg's statement is in here?

[Nuwen]

He was being sarcastic. I can hear him saying it in my head.

I think that was Staeg saying something similar to what you said about Espeonage being a role cop. Like "are you sure you aren't a scum-oriented type of cop WINK WINK."

[Nuwen]

NUWEN PLEASE ANSWER THIS

"Reck thinks he can talk his way out of a hole."
The end

[Nuwen]

But no seriously, here are my thoughts on Reck's espeonage reads.

1. Reck said the cop claim made him back off immediately because Esp wasn't counterclaimed. This is just

what you do

, according to Reck. He never questioned that Espeonage could be lying, which is a scum mindset, especially if white knighting the claimer is part of the package. I think town would at least entertain the possibility of Esp fakeclaiming. Reck also IMMEDIATELY tries to point suspicion at the people who lynched Esp, which is also scummy because it's something he set himself up to do by white knighting - I strongly believe it is TOWN who questioned Esp's claim and SCUM who believed/defended it 100%. Summary:

uses 'following procedure' as an excuse for very scummy behavior.

2. Reck didn't want to lynch Esp because we should 'give him a night of results.' However, Espeonage

would not have had a useful result until night 3 minimum

. Confirming that Kuribo is town is useless because we already know it, which is the only possible Night 2 result for Esp; I think scum would be MORE likely to say 'give Esp a pass to prove himself' if

scum know Esp's result will not be useful to town nor incriminating

. And/or they have a roleblocker to lock him down later.

It feels like the more case I make, the more squish room Reck gets to yell LIAR LIAR PLANTS FOR HIRE. I also feel like I'm losing my audience by appearing consumed by conf bias (just a little, I swear!). I know I'm right and he's scum, and I can PROVE IT TO ALL OF YOU SOMEWHERE WITH MY WORDSPEAK.

[Nuwen]

Tell me how these reads have updated based on Espeonage flipping town.

First, you answer my questions.

"I don't actually have evolving opinions, need time to make them up."

look how big my font is

[Nuwen]

Call me a dumb bitch all you want, town was rearing to lynch him anyway which would have led to me getting NKd and taking my shot to the grave

oh really? TOWN was rearing to lynch him?

It takes six votes to lynch, he had four.

I had already expressed my unwillingness to lynch him. The other votes were: DGB, Nuwen, Staeg, and Katsuki. You know my thoughts on DGB & Nuwen, but STAEG and KATSUKI, aka TEAM LURKFEST 2014, are TOWN?

So Staeg towniness QUESTIONABLE -> STAEG SEES THROUGH THE LIES

(Katsuki is this why you keep talking to scum - under pressure it's hard for them to keep their reads consistent and they're more likely to be friendly to anyone who agrees with their points/will bail them out/brings up a different topic)

[Nuwen]

What did you ask, Staeg?

[Nuwen]

Kuribo's shot was MORE than fine. The people who actively defended Espeonage are NOT FINE, because it feels like they had to have known he was town to read him as town. The only thing close to "showing work" behind a town read on Esp is RC, who grappled with his read for a couple of days but seemed to conclude Esp was probably town. In my memory, FakeGod and Reck didn't even chase after Esp or really do much at all to interact directly with him, or tell us what qualities to Esp (besides hiding behind DON'T LYNCH R COP OMG) made him seem town. That's where I want to go next.

I didn't know he was town or even attempt to read him after he claimed cop with a breadcrumb. You don't fucking lynch/kill a cop claim without giving it a night to prove it unless there's a counterclaim. I made this abundantly clear in my early D2 posts, so don't act like it's coming from nowhere. Espe became a nonoption for me after I read that he claimed cop and had a breadcrumb to back it up.

I already explained the "hanging a lampshade" thing where I said I looked scummy as shit this game... it was ALL BASED on Espeonage being scum, because it looked like I came in and started a ruckus to distract away from the incoming Espeonage lynch, as was evidenced by you and Katsuki immediately voting me. I assumed that was, "ESPE FLIPPED SCUM, RECK DEFENDED HIM/REDIRECTED THE WAGON, KILL KILL" and immediately felt defeated.

Nuwen, be honest: do you ACTUALLY think, as scum, I'd see Espeonage flip, pretend not to know what his alignment was, declare self-defeatism, only to have the mod come in, explain the situation, and have me do a 180 with a screenshot ready to go? You've been one to champion looking at two options in a situation and looking at which one was probably the simpler explanation. So either my crazy series of events is TRUE (the simplest explanation), or I, as scum, had enough forethought to put that plan into motion and had it all planned out contingent upon an Espeonage daykill by kuribo.

Stuff like this isn't a QUESTION, it's a defense. I usually don't bother mucking with whining scum unless it's to provoke them into outbursts of frustration, or to get them to do something desperate.

You ask questions of people you're trying to figure out. At this point, I'm berating Reck until the provocation makes him do something that makes you all see him as scum or he does something that reads town. So far I've narrated the scum side of all of his motivations, because that's what I see as the most likely motivator for the stuff he's said/done.

The rest of Reck's "questions" just read as stuff he wouldn't bother saying to HIS scum read, which is how I know he's not really looking for answers- he's looking for holes that'll make people let him skate by another day. His tone isn't of someone talking to scum.

[Nuwen]

It all adds up to me in a way no one is going to see, I guess. Just sheep me, I'm not wrong.

If Spyrex isn't helping me he's public enemy #2.

FakeGod is a VERY good and very juicy compromise lynch. He's in the scum pool of most of the game, could def BE scum, but he's also NOT GOING ANYWHERE. it will get HARDER to lynch ScumReck as the game gets smaller, because much fewer people are reading him as scum. i don't want to do anything else today besides Reck, and I'm gonna put my foot down on this one.

[Nuwen]

I swear to god, Nuwen

has

to be scum. It's not just the PANTS ON HEAD aspect of things anymore; it's the downright lunacy of what she says; it's the fact that she blatantly lies and fudges facts to try and paint a picture that just isn't there; it's the way she dodges my questions and direct posts with what we all in the Commune have come to know and love as "Nuwen's word vomit". The "reasons" she has given to support this all out assault against me are constantly shifting every time one of them gets dumped on by truth and righteousness.

I'm still poking and prodding at her, because something has to give. Like, for all that is inside of me I

PRAY

Nuwen is scum, here, because there's no way I

wouldn't

be a cunt about this IRL for months to come. I've just never, ever, ever, ever seen Nuwen go this full retard and be THIS WRONG about EVERYTHING and it has me bewildered. If she's scum, that's the only way it makes sense in my brain for her to be this fucking horrible.

If she's town...

oh good lord, the insult fodder. Face to face games will never be the same.

This is a massive appeal to emotion.

Reck has not explained why I am wrong

, he has only repeated said I am wrong, I am a liar, and that I HAVE to be scum all the while. He says he hopes I'm scum because... he'll haunt me about this in the future? The dichotomy of

horrible

or

scum

is a false one here - I am not playing horribly, I am just right. The only thing Reck can do to contradict me finding him as scum (for reasons he apparently doesn't understand) is

scream about how wrong I am and AtE to the rest of you

.

Like I said, he's not even convincing HIMSELF I'm scum. See the super mega big words - this is a direct example of

me reading Reck correctly, because I have said all along that he is not convicted w/ his scum read on me

.

The reasons Reck is scum update

with his posts

. That's not a hard connection to make. There is no

truth or righteousness

in any of Reck's posts, there is only excuses followed by AtE followed by assertions that I'm wrong.

[Nuwen]

This is another example of me reading Reck correctly, right in this game.

Before Espeonage flipped, I said this about Reck's obsession with WIFOM:

The "I TOTALLY WOULDN'T DO THIS CHEEKY THING AS SCUM" is also a Reck scum angle 100%. He always thinks he can out-WIFOM people by doing sub-optimal or "obviously scummy" things... and then just gets caught for doing obviously scummy things. This isn't a characteristic specific to mafia, either. If you'd like another example, we played White Chapel last night and he took a route that basically ensured he'd get caught, just to try and WIFOM us into spreading out of the area he was in.

Here is a

perfect example of Reck trying to out-WIFOM us:

Nuwen, be honest: do you ACTUALLY think, as scum, I'd see Espeonage flip, pretend not to know what his alignment was, declare self-defeatism, only to have the mod come in, explain the situation, and have me do a 180 with a screenshot ready to go?

You've been one to champion looking at two options in a situation and looking at which one was probably the simpler explanation. So either my crazy series of events is TRUE (the simplest explanation), or I, as scum, had enough forethought to put that plan into motion and had it all planned out contingent upon an Espeonage daykill by kuribo.

The simplest answer is that he's SCUM, and his constant defense has only consisted of U LYING.

I am not misintepreting Reck's posts

. I have told you were the scum approach is in each of them - if the scum approach seems like a stretch in one place,

look instead to the obvious WIFOM games here

.

Look at Reck's white-knighting the cop hoping that he and his scum team can lynch among the people who voted for Espeonage

.

His reaction to Espeonage's flip was over-the-top and fake

, to the point where he feel screenshots were needed to back up his claims (and the screenshots don't actually prove anything?). I keep trying to explain why his reaction is scummy next to Kuribo's and my own reaction, and I'm coming up short. The stuff about third party concern isn't quite right, but it's just WAY too hyperbolic and staged.

Reck is one of those people who enjoys playing scum roles as an actor

, which is a common mistake people don't grow out of.

He continues to be an emotional AtE actor now, because he thinks the threats will either change my mind or somehow

explain his impossible scum read on me

. I 100% believe that if you give him an alternative wagon right now he'll go for it, all hands on deck (just like he

backed down

when DGB came down and said we were in a town vs. town battle).

[Nuwen]

Just sheep me, I'm not wrong.

Didn't you say Esp was scum?

Exactly where do you get your boundless confidence?

RECK BUDDY DETECTED

It's possible like I said, but still not a good lynch. What's stopping me here: if Reck were under pressure, his kneejerk reaction would be to bus at the next available juncture (even if there are 'better' options available). That's just his style. He still hasn't gone for FakeGod.

Reck hasn't said much about FakeGod at all TBH.

[Nuwen]

I think I finally broke him. What the fuck is this page.

Staeg why aren't you voting for Reck yet.

[Nuwen]

jesus christ staeg just explain that 'day miller' is your way if saying Bulbz is scummy as fuck but he's being ignored and then

VOTE

RECK

[Nuwen]

Useless

[Nuwen]

Also if Nuwen is town then scum just win I think but it'll be all her fault so it's k

GLOAT MORE ASS FUCK

[Nuwen]

Also

if Nuwen is town

then scum just win

[becaus no one else will lynch me after she's dead

] I think but it'll be all her fault so it's k

is how I'm reading this post

[Nuwen]

Therefore, I think there's good chance that bunch of opportunistic scum were in the Esp wagon.

What's wrong with this line of reasoning?

Why would scum waste breath & visibility wagoning

a guy who was probably going to be shot anyway

? Espeonage's claim was NOT a reason to keep him alive, because his claim was either very useless or very false. If scum were doing anything it was probably voting someone ELSE while knighting Espeonage because his result matrix was non-threatening to them. Scum would want to be a position to do EXACTLY what you're doing, which is to mislynch the vocal town who wanted Espeonage dead.

EBWOP: I thought that it was easy to see that Esp's claim was town.

Because you have inside information. To someone without knowledge of Esp's alignment, his claim looks like it could have ANY NUMBER of scum motivations. For example: Esp-scum could be trying to fish for the REAL cop counterclaim because that's all his slot is good for after that hammer, Esp-scum was trying to stay his execution one night to get off a crucial one-shot scum ability, Esp-scum claimed a delayed result so as not to confirm anyone on the way down, etc. Some of these possibilities might be unlikely and absurd but they DEFINITELY are going to cross a town mind.

[Nuwen]

I think we probably crossed the ::effort:: threshold for Reck as scum. His PBPA is absolute horseshit, but while I was reading it the question 'why the fuck would he bother' making these awful points' came up a couple times. Reck-scum should have rolled over and died by now, especially because ALL the scum are still alive. I don't see him investing that much time when he could be lazy and die instead. It would only be explained by Reck being (in his mind) the only competent scum member,

which should be noted for later plz

.

I reread and this entire series of events still seems really staged to me, and I want everyone to understand how I read it:

Like I've been saying, Reck-scum often sets up superficial ways to town-tell as scum. Gratuitously over-reacting to a flip fits that style to me. Here are the initial posts, before he "figures out" Esp is town:

Spoiler: Before the realization

is fucking lone wolf a mafia or not

this fucking flavor sucks my balls

Still the wrong play to shoot him, don't care. It was reckless as fuck and could've easily cost us big time.

still want to lynch RC.

still think Nuwen's lying is scummy as ballsack but everyone else seems to think lying extensively is something town people do?

DGB is town; kuribo is either SUPER FUCKING BALLSY scum or town (leaning town obv); I want to believe(tm) that SpySpy can be my sanity townrock.

Bulbazak just looks scummy so IDFK how to read that shit

Staeg is lurking so PRETTY STANDARD

Katsuki came back in and gunned for Espeonage which seems really fucking town since it'd be stupid for Katsu to fuel the fire of a buddywagon when he was on the chopping block as well

"I... I'm just a Lone Wolf... I'm not with anyone else."

oh for fuck's sake

MOD: was Espeonage a member of the mafia faction or was he a Serial Killer or was he something else

Bulbazak, FakeGod, RedCoyote

These three votes tho

Wait... DGB's dayvig gift also makes people millers? Hmm.

Man, at quick glance I look scummy as shit this game.

And this is the realization itself:

OH SO HE WAS FUCKING TOWN?

YOU FUCKING MORONS

And this is after he realizes Esp is town:

what edit

• This is where Reck keeps pointing out that he's town-telled, because he reacted and parsed Espeonage as scum... but that's why I think he's faking it.
  
• He never saw the

  edit

  that made Espeonage's flip look scum-aligned. The screenshots and stuff about Lone Wolf being grey just seem like a way to cover his faked reaction, because he needed something MORE ambiguous than the

  corrected flip

  to explain his reaction
  
• Reck also spills his reads into the thread and says "I'm scummy as fuck," both are reactions to Esp being scum... but after Reck realizes Esp is town, his reads don't really seem to update or change. Nuwen is still scum. RC is still scum. Kuribo still gets berated for shooting (which IMO is supposed to be a segue to wagoning Esp voters, just like scum want to be doing). He keeps pointing back to these reads because they supposedly confirm that he had a paradigm in mind, but
  that paradigm never changed when Esp's flip was corrected
  . So I think he want just posting about his reads/plans for today generally, and is trying to put the frame of "town tell" around it later on under pressure.
  
• I was wrong about the third party suspicion. I tried to explain my feelings about his reaction
  too quickly
  , and it's often difficult to put your finger on why a gut read makes you feel the way you do. Reck's entire reaction just FELT bad, and I tried to explain why it COULD be bad instead of sitting down and analyzing. I didn't have as much reading time while Momma was here.

[Nuwen]

I haven't said Staeg is UNQUESTIONABLY TOWN, I said he's not scum. Reck is skimming my posts and not reading them thoroughly.

It's DAY 2. The best way to figure out who is the scum lynch is to first figure out who you DON'T want to lynch because they feel more town than scum, then scumhunt by PoE. Staeg has been on THAT list for me. The fact that he's mildly paranoid about my town read is p town too, way better than any of the fucks who've been trying to paint his play as scummy.

[Nuwen]

Therefore, I think there's good chance that bunch of opportunistic scum were in the Esp wagon.

What's wrong with this line of reasoning?

Why would scum waste breath & visibility wagoning

a guy who was probably going to be shot anyway

?

Espeonage's claim was NOT a reason to keep him alive, because his claim was either very useless or very false. If scum were doing anything it was probably voting someone ELSE while knighting Espeonage because his result matrix was non-threatening to them. Scum would want to be a position to do EXACTLY what you're doing, which is to mislynch the vocal town who wanted Espeonage dead.

EBWOP: I thought that it was easy to see that Esp's claim was town.

Because you have inside information. To someone without knowledge of Esp's alignment, his claim looks like it could have ANY NUMBER of scum motivations. For example: Esp-scum could be trying to fish for the REAL cop counterclaim because that's all his slot is good for after that hammer, Esp-scum was trying to stay his execution one night to get off a crucial one-shot scum ability, Esp-scum claimed a delayed result so as not to confirm anyone on the way down, etc. Some of these possibilities might be unlikely and absurd but they DEFINITELY are going to cross a town mind.

Hey FakeGod, I thought ignoring questions was scummy

[Nuwen]

Hey FakeGod

Why would scum waste breath & visibility wagoning a guy who was probably going to be shot anyway?

[Nuwen]

Shot by the DAY FUCKING VIG KURIBO

Scum wouldn't

need to kill Espeonage

, because

Espeonage had exactly 0 chance of catching any of them

. Do you really think scum would go out on a limb to power lynch a

role that couldn't possibly implicate any of them the following night

? Esp could ONLY get a result on Kuribo Night 2. It would be night 3 // day 4 MINIMUM before Espeonage's results could possibly target + claim anyone

besides Kuribo

.

You think scum's response to a role that would IMPLICATE KURIBO IF LEFT ALIVE BUT NOT THREATEN THEM IN THE SLIGHTEST was to

go out on a limb and try to powerlynch it

... instead of just doing nothing, or better yet DEFENDING Esp.

lol

[Nuwen]

That seems fine if you think Kuribo wouldn't have shot, but it still doesn't explain the advantage/motivation behind killing Espeonage TODAY instead of just leaving him alive to be useless or draw suspicion to a town dude.

[Nuwen]

That seems fine if you think Kuribo wouldn't have shot, but it still doesn't explain the advantage/motivation behind killing Espeonage TODAY instead of just leaving him alive to be useless or draw suspicion to a town dude.

Esp claimed Cop.

Leaving him alive means he was going to get investigation results.

It makes sense that scum would want to get rid of him as soon as possible.

Summarize the way Espeonage's role worked. Tell me when he would get an investigation result on anybody but Kuribo, in game days.

[Nuwen]

But Esp would be able to get a result on Kuribo tomorrow. That's significant.

Significant investigation on a miller claim? Please, tell me more.

[Nuwen]

Reck stop being afk

That's right around the time that it clicked Reck was probably scum, yes. He was even a fair buddy in the matrix w/ Espeonage in my mind, which Reck actually acknowledges as a legit read later in his "slip" ("if Espeonage is scum I look scummy as fuck right now"). This set of reads should be pretty organic to him if his slip was something he thought, instead of something he made up? I dunno

But he's forgetting his own reads and just trying to make everything in my ISO seem scummy now, which is obfuscating my read on him a bit. I can see Reck flipping his shit as town and trying to twist everything in my ISO out of context (like not seeing Esp's Acronym crumb on a misaligned phone browser, then acknowledging it).

[Nuwen]

shoot reck kuribo I am 100% sure on this one

I wanted Kuribo to shoot Reck most of all, but Espeonage was very much an elephant that needed to be taken care of. And having the prescience to want to flip Esp because

nothing else would be done/talked about until he was off the table

is the only way to get everyone's attention on the Papa Scum, Reck. This is a pretty clear line of thought/play that Reck is trying to apply scum motivation to.

He has yet to explain why scum would want to kill Espeonage at all today, except "free kill LOL." If he believes scum are that impulsive and without forward-thinking play... why is he voting me? He knows I'm the type of scum player who goes in for the long haul, not for the day-to-day plays. His reads are very inconsistent with reality.

[Nuwen]

The town cop has momentum on him/suspicion on him. Suddenly, xRECKONERx wakes up and starts throwing punches with Nuwen.

I'm the one who called Reck scum first, which forced him to be present in the thread

. Reck didn't "wake up" and suddenly realize I'm scum, like this post suggests. He started OMGUS/cross-casing with me after I went after him.

I think it's VERY important to maintain the order of events, because scum often want to appear

proactive

in situations where they are just

reacting to pressure

.

[Nuwen]

Then quote it...

Why don't you think scum could have had town do their "dirty" work for them, while they sit back and mislynch the town who called for Espeonage's death? That's what I would do as scum here. The easiest and simplest thing to do as scum is let town self-purge and destruct.

Pretty much EVERYONE in the game thought Espeonage's play was questionable in some way before he claimed. It makes MORE sense for scum to white-knight him post-claim for brownie points. There is

no risk

associated with defending Espeonage for scum:

1. Scum white knighting succeeds. Espeonage is not lynched or not shot. He either gets a useless result on Kuribo or wastes a night attempting to target someone else. This is PARTICULARLY harmless to scum if they think Espeonage isn't suspecting them in the slightest (... because they're his DEFENDERS AND CHAMPIONS).
2. Scum white knighting fails, Espeonage is shot/lynched. Scum can immediately scream U IDIOTS MUST B SCUM and try to firebomb Espeonage's lynchers.

The BIGGEST reason white knighting for Esp is scummy here is because

no one defending him could figure out why he was town, outside of his claim

. But the claim wasn't even pro-town from MANY outside points of view. It happens VERY frequently that only scum find a scummy-townie to be town, because they already know his alignment. His defenders were just looking for reasons to stay off his wagon & stay clean of the lynch, which they got via blanket OMG COP DON'T TOUCH IT reactions.

Explain to me why you think HIGH RISK // USELESS REWARD is the more likely scum play then the LOW RISK // DEFINITE REWARD outcome

.

[Nuwen]

Why don't you think scum couldn't have had town do their "dirty" work for them, while they sit back and mislynch the town who called for Espeonage's death?

You keep ignoring the most important question here.

[Nuwen]

See, the way I see it is ALL the people who think Reck is scum are actually among Esp's lyncher's:

Espeonage (4): DGB, Staeg, Katsuki, Nuwen (L-2)

So that's everyone minus Staeg, who concidentally Reck hasn't been as interested in (Reck even had the chance to wagon Staeg just now - someone pointed out that he didn't go for it)... not estranging an ally? Or not bussing while he accuses the REST of the game of what his buddy did? I dunno, but it lines up too cleanly

Wanting to scumhunt in this pool also accounts for ALL the people who find Reck scummy pretty much. I think he's insisting scum did the less-likely thing as a way of trying to build good case material. There's gotta be a REASON Reck hasn't really considered in-thread that town would lynch Esp in a heartbeat.

[Nuwen]

See, the way I see it is ALL the people who think Reck is scum are actually among Esp's lyncher's:

Espeonage (4): DGB, Staeg, Katsuki, Nuwen (L-2)

So that's everyone minus Staeg, who concidentally Reck hasn't been as interested in (Reck even had the chance to wagon Staeg just now - someone pointed out that he didn't go for it)... not estranging an ally? Or not bussing while he accuses the REST of the game of what his buddy did? I dunno, but it lines up too cleanly

Wanting to scumhunt in this pool also accounts for ALL the people who find Reck scummy pretty much. I think he's insisting scum did the less-likely thing as a way of trying to build good case material. There's gotta be a REASON Reck hasn't really considered in-thread that town would lynch Esp in a heartbeat.

[Nuwen]

it's like I can see the future

[Nuwen]

Exactly where do you get your boundless confidence?

It's always the scum who want to know why I'm eerily correct on all fronts

and it's always the town who ignore me

#cassandra

[Nuwen]

Bulbz summarize what makes Reck town to you in three sentences or less. What qualities about "the way he posts" are more likely to come from town than scum.

[Nuwen]

Always with the timing

[Nuwen]

I've got a fever but let me give you a teaser
Of why reck won't die:

The game spread likely 3-7-10
Which means the scum must lynch his head
Cause a 6-town wagon is nigh impossible

But they won't bus, too much defense fuss
My partner pick is buuuulb

He says Reck reacts like town, but is lynching me instead?
Clearly didn't take into account what Nuwen said
When flip was first read

(Because chainsaws go brrrrwrrrbrrr)

I think FakeGod is supposed to be our comprise
He seems so scummy in everyone's eyes

But fuck that noise man

[Nuwen]

If he's just a compromise then why is it everyone is calling him scum, yet for the longest time only I was voting him?

Yeah you're right. Scum hovering, town indecisive? can't parse

the thing that is really keeping me from declaring FG+Reck to be definite buddies: I think Reck would have secured an early bus seat on FG, especially when the tone of the thread started to really turn against FG. It's very like him to be the earliest and most vocal arbiters of a scum lynch as scum, and then bask in the ::credits:: for the rest of the game. Instead Reck voted... katsuki? That's not how I expected that to shape up.

[Nuwen]

No seriously Nu look at this.

You can even start in on reck nonsense again tomorrow!

Look reck you can totally wifom the wifoms and vote with Nu

EVERYONE WINS

Oh NOW you want to talk.

[Nuwen]

VOTE: fakegod

Let's just get this over with. No one is going to compromise my way. Needed 2 more town to see the light and couldn't even manage 1. Scum have 0 incentive to bus at this point because a no lynch is strictly better.

[Nuwen]

whoever roleblocked me last night claims next post otherwise I'm assuming it's the obvious scum RB and going into VINDICATED READ MODE.

[Nuwen]

Mass claim. Reck starts.

[Nuwen]

There won't BE a lylo if we no-lynch and there are additional kills and a scum roleblocker in the game

WHICH THERE ARE BOTH OF

1+1 == HELLLOOOOO

[Nuwen]

It's Reck, Spyrex, Bulbz (Staeg?) by PoE. Scum didn't lynch FakeGod because scum already WERE lynching FakeGod at deadline:

Bulbazak (0):
DrippingGoofball (0):
FakeGod (4):

Kuribo

,

SpyreX, Staeg,

Nuwen

Katsuki (1):

xRECKONERx

Kuribo (0):
Nuwen (2): FakeGod,

Bulbazak

RedCoyote (0):
Staeg (0):
SpyreX (0):
xRECKONERx (3):

Katsuki, DrippingGoofball, RedCoyote

and Reck didn't die because the bus wasn't on his wagon; his buddies were voting elsewhere on FG or vanity. I was howling for his death for SO LONG if he were town scum would have just indulged me and then blamed me for having a bad read. He's scum he's scum I've been RIGHT THE ENTIRE GAME.

claim
claim
claim

[Nuwen]

have henna tattoo on one hand to type.

reck claims next NO ONE ELSE NOT A SINLGE WORD ABOUT ANYTHING RELATED TO YOUR ROLE BEFRORE RECK GOES

[Nuwen]

Where is the rest of this game

[Nuwen]

So all the stall, asking the moderator, no-lynch, etc was just you segueing into claiming VT

with a kill

Have I mentioned that Reck is PRETTY infamous for claiming impossible results AND/OR mod shenanigans/confusion as an explanation for his results

[Nuwen]

Like in the last Destiny game, where I gave him his fakeclaim while he was drunk @ Reckoning:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p3936978

He FORGOT IT and decided to make something up by himself... and used moderator interaction as an explanation for both the excuse for his confusion and delay while inventing it.

[Nuwen]

So all the stall, asking the moderator, no-lynch, etc was just you segueing into claiming VT

with a kill

Have I mentioned that Reck is PRETTY infamous for claiming impossible results AND/OR mod shenanigans/confusion as an explanation for his results

oh really

Is it seriously ridiculous to think that Fate, being as cheeky as he is, would decide to give me a vig kill for the lulz?

You date this man. You tell me with a clear conscious that Fate wouldn't do that shit.

The more likely story is that you weren't sure whether a kill was traced to you or not, so you went with a plausible half-explanation that could go either way in case someone claimed results on you. This is why you weren't sure what to do at the start of the day and didn't want to massclaim.

So no, I don't think you're a VT with a kill. And since the DGB-giver is voting you, I know you didn't get it from her.

vote Reck

[Nuwen]

What?

We have NO confirmeds right now and massclaiming may leave us with our pants down.

The only way it isn't MYLO right now is if this is something other than 3:5. If we had a confirmed town or something then I'd say let's sort this shit out today, but we don't.

I think it's possible I

may

have been responsible for one of the kills last night but it's a real stretch.

If I was scum, why would I even go for that claim today when I had people agreeing to no lynch?

I wanted to massclaim today

because I believe I'm responsible for the second kill which would

CONFIRM ME AS NOT BEING SCUM

.

::flail::

[Nuwen]

How did you go from saying OMG NO CONFIRM'D CAN'T MASSCLAIM

to

I'M CONFIRMED NOT-SCUM AND I WANTED TO MASSCLAIM

REALLY

THIS IS WHAT LYING REALLY LOOKS LIKE, PEOPLE

[Nuwen]

Itemized list

1. I don't think Katsuki really thought anyone would believe his guilty claim... you don't waste investigations on someone you already know is scum.
2. So which of scum-Katsuki and town-Katsuki fakeclaims to lynch his read? Money on town Katsuki.
3. Spyrex was scum because his Reck read reversed out of NOWHERE. He wasn't even considering Reck as scum until Katsuki's obviously-not-real result gave him an excuse to lynch Reck.
4. Who else wasn't considering a Reck vote until Katsuk's bit // Reck's very awkward claim? Bulbazak http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p5618829
5. Who else was voting for NUWEN, the other side of the 1v1, immediately prior to voting for Reck? Bulbazak http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p5604676
6. Control+F Spyrex in Bulbazak's ISO is pretty sparse for actual alignment-indicative back & forth. Bulb lists Spyrex as his only null read WELL into the game, when other people (Staeg - spooky? Reck - paranoia?) have already hinted at Spyrex being scum.

In post 688, Katsuki wrote:
How's reck town. = =


Occam's Razor.

[Nuwen]

[Nuwen]

Why would I want to vote for him straight off? Scum always appreciate the opportunity to bus their buddies if the wind blows that way; I thought his scum friend might read my post and want to get a head start.

RC, what's the outcome of your gift action?

[Nuwen]

I was too ready to believe the tracker claim, since Kats was a townread, and it looked like DGB had given him the ability. I played follow the cop when I simply should have known better, especially with the way

Nuwen had lied about Reck d2

.

I didn't lie about a single thing, which is what made Reck scummy as shit to me. Trying to excuse his scummy play by saying I'M LYING is even scummier to me.

Too eager to sheep a power role onto a Mylo lynch?

YOU DON'T SAY!?

[Nuwen]

Anyway, I think I can confirm there's a redirector/roleblocker/stopper in the game if that's useful at all:

I'm White Knight, x-shot compulsive bodyguard. For x nights I HAVE to choose a target for 'mamori' . Not going to reveal what x is because without it I'm effectively a vt-treestump.

The second part of my ability is passive, triggered if I die for ANY reason: I get an extra day phase to dump my reads, any results, and 'haunt' the thread, but I lose my vote. I'm effectively a treestump for an extra phase.

On

NIGHT 2

I protected Kuribo, but my ability WAS NOT triggered. This is why I was 100% sure that Reck had roleblocked me as scum - his in-thread behavior made him seem 'surprised' to be caught as scum ("LIAR LIAR LIAR"), so I thought he would read me as a PR with a guilty on him and RB'd me for the rest of the game.

[Nuwen]

Reck N1 (common NK target, decent if confirmable, didn't think he was scum until the day 2 dawned and Nacho's hydra was shot instead)
Kuribo N2 (pretty damn town)
DGB N3 (PR)

Full-claim next post, Bulb.

[Nuwen]

I'm Manos.

Is that a VT claim? I still haven't seen you lock into a full claim, aside from outing the neighborize stuff

[Nuwen]

the image is broken, because hotlinking is actually evil

[Nuwen]

k, had to follow the image's url

So this game is supposedly

DGB x-shot inventor (DGB doesn't seem to know what she's giving out)
Nuwen x-shot bodyguard
Bulb - VT
katsuki - ???
RC - ???
Staeg - ???vig

Staeg said he kicked Spyrex in the dick so we'll roll with that softclaim for now
Staeg also neighborized Bulb
RC has a gift to use

[Nuwen]

There's one situation where RC could be scum. I don't think it matters if I say it. The scum team could have no-killed, anticipating a massclaim that they would need a confirmable in (and then claim doctor/whatever). I mean, I've never heard of a jailkeep that specifically DOESN'T block its targets action. RC would need to claim something that didn't interfere with DGB, because it's already been confirmed that her action resolved. Dunno why he wouldn't claim something that fits the scenario more than a not-blocking-jailkeeper, unless jailkeeper was just a given fakeclaim-role.

It does fit with RC not using his gift yesterday though, which I thought made him preeeetty scum-slippy at first (town should be afraid of dying with their gift, like Kuribo was). The commute would mean he wouldn't be afraid of dying.

~~

Everyone else's claims seem pretty shrug-worthy. I don't think the two VTs are scum claiming VT together, especially because the best vig shot is going to be a VT after lynching scum today. It'd be pretty ballsy to walk into a massclaim scenario as scum and not want to be a confirmed role.

Staeg, are you claiming the kill on FakeGod too?

[Nuwen]

I guess the game would've been over if Staeg shot town, scum successfully killed town, and there are also 3 scum. An attempt to shoot last night = a chance @ winning today vs. having no chance at winning today, but a better chance of winning down the road.

The no-kill play only makes sense if scum knew one of them was caught by the vig.

There's nothing else that could have interfered with a kill besides my bodyguard, RC's claimed jailkeep, RC's claimed commute. I know my ability wasn't triggered.

1. Scum no-kills

2. Scum shoots RC, he can't be targeted

3. Scum shoots DGB, she's jailkept and protected by RC's role
3a. Scum must also continue to RB/redirect/whatever Nuwen after I confirmed having an action Day 2. No one else is claiming a mis-target or blocked action, and I did not protect any kill last night.

I dunno

How the heeeellll do you TARGET someone else while commuting yourself? Commuters typically can't use actions or be acted upon while commuting, because they're removed from the gamestate. It doesn't make sense for you to be un-targetable and also be able to target another player on the same night.

And last question for Staeg: Are you the Blind Monk, word-for-word? RC is "Wanderer" so that would fit the theme of the way role names are distributed.

[Nuwen]

The no-kill play only makes sense if scum knew one of them was caught by the vig.

thinking about this more, 3 scum matrix:

Spyrex hammers Reck after having a town read on him all game, vig still in the game.
Spyrex assumes vig will shoot him, therefore scum cannot win Day 3. They no-kill (dawn @ 2-6). OR They kill (dawn @ 2-5)

Why not shoot the vig

? Because they need his shot going into Night 4? Or they think he's an

SK w/ vest

and want to lynch him instead? Or they DID shoot him, and THAT'S what accounts for missing kill because he IS a BP SK.
Bulb said stuff about SK IMMEDIATLY AFTER I CONFIRM MY PROTECT ACTION DIDN'T AFFECT THE KILL I.E

I DIDN'T PROTECT STAEG LAST NIGHT

:

I'm actually starting to seriously wonder if we have a SK instead of a vig.

This comment is not without cause, IMO.

1 + 1 == Bulb knows where the kill disappeared to
Bulb "confirms" RC's action because RC has an ability that he was probably going to use on Bulb, unless Bulb kisses shoes right quick. There's nothing like being confirmed town to make you glow like a pregnant 20 year-old.

[Nuwen]

DGB can only be scum if RC is also lying, which would also probably imply them being scum together. That doesn't reconcile with me because if they were scum together, it would be really risky for DGB to give her buddy a present - what if it blew up in his face, like a suicide bomber?

For DGB alone to be scum -> give RC-town a gift -> doesn't make sense for him to be shot immediately afterwards (accounting for the missing kill) unless RC's reads were the most threatening thing to the scum team (Bulb?). He never really touches on DGB suspicion at all, so I don't think that's where the scum shot for DGB-scum.

If RC is telling the truth, it's pretty likely that DGB was the kill target for scum. She's a source of power. That seems like an open/close book kill if the town's reads are shitty.

Wanting to lynch DGB after there's a missing kill + protect claims is pretty gross tbh, especially if I'm her buddy in your matrix. Staeg is already voting for me. Why aren't you voting for me, if that's your PoE process?

[Nuwen]

Nuwen, why do you care about my rolename

you kick things in a Fate game

RC has a similarly-sourced role, "Wanderer"

[Nuwen]

RC, what is the flavor name of each of your abilities?

[Nuwen]

Not the yasuo theme I expected considering Staeg kicks people to kill them.

[Nuwen]

VOTE: vote katsuki

[Nuwen]

http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/8qMVb5qVLc3