Mini 1519: Such unusual pretermen rarely exist; maybe evil?

[frog]

I'm here now, sorry, was waiting on my role PM. Will post something of substance shortly.

[frog]

Some general thoughts:
TheSilverBard's 'I might be a vig' is something I'd call bullshit on as well, though there's little reason for scum to claim it (without WIFOM of course) so this just reads to me as some bs gambit going nowhere. Not liking DrDolittle's response either. SilverBard picks grey up on a technicality which he tries to pass off as a reason for a lynch. Not sound at all. Iama's response has a lot of sense in it. TSO was inactive for a bit so it is a shame he missed the fireworks but I don't have a strong read on him. Then 'I never claimed' bollocks, uh. At the time of me being 1/2 way down page two I don't like Bard, but the wagon is a bit quick, which is burns' fault, but dolittle's buddying isn't flying under my radar. 'Shit reasoning' my ass. Bard's flopping in circles between saying he claimed and saying he didn't. TSO is town, as are quint and grey. Dolittle's buddying is shit, #2 scumread. SonofZeus' 94 is good and nets him a leaning townread from me.

Unvote

But I would like to know who he thinks is scum at this point. Also bs quint says that dolittle's getting scummier, he's been scummy the whole time. @quints, who asks who shouldn't be lynched: Zeus should not be, neither should TSO. Not sure hwo to interpret Bard's 157. Dolittle's 178 is awful, talk about strecthing. Inte's interactions read town to me. And then like nothing happens for ages and there's little to go from. Ugh. There's more stuff in Newbie games at this point in the first day. Quint looks like he's tunneling for a bit. 'Fucking dumb' is partly inte's fault, I agree. And now I'm up to speed.

Vote: DrDoLittle

Had a consistent scumread on him throughout the whole game, and he's not stopped being scummy at any point.
Qwints, you shouldn't lynch me because you should lynch this.

[frog]

The Silver Bard, I thought it was obvious enough that I was looking through the thread and offering my immediate thoughts on what I saw. By the end DrDolittle is my #1 scumread.

If you do end up lynching me, which is increasingly likely, look at Hiraki's vote and scrutinise SilverBard and DrDoLittle more carefully (especially if there's more than 1 nightkill).

[frog]

Hi. Since you are new I will cut you some slack, and not go crazy on your ass for promissing to read and post later. Please do so before the deadline. I will unvote your slot for now.

I hope this sounds as funny to you as it does to me, given that I'm the latest into the game at this point, and someone who is actually posting content
Also imausername, there is plenty of time to change votes if you're actually concerned with finding scum, but you appear to not be at all interested. Why is this?

[frog]

My number one scumread at that time was you.
Reads list, from Scummiest to Towniest:

DrDolittle
The Silver Bard
Hiraki

(you may have noticed I have already asked Town to look at them more)

SweetSixteen
SonofZeus
Inte
Natirasha
Qwints
Iamausername
TSO
4nxiety
greygnarl

Which I believe accounts for all the players other than myself.
Reasoning can be found to some extent in that post you fobbed off as 'useless'. As much as I'd like to do ISOs I don't feel they are currently appropriate. Since you're here now, perhaps you can explain your vote on me? L-1 is serious and you've left a lot to the imagination.

[frog]

My number one scumread at that time was you.
Reads list, from Scummiest to Towniest:

DrDolittle
The Silver Bard
Hiraki

(you may have noticed I have already asked Town to look at them more)

SweetSixteen
SonofZeus
Inte
Natirasha
Qwints
Iamausername
TSO
4nxiety
greygnarl

Which I believe accounts for all the players other than myself.
Reasoning can be found to some extent in that post you fobbed off as 'useless'. As much as I'd like to do ISOs I don't feel they are currently appropriate. Since you're here now, perhaps you can explain your vote on me? L-1 is serious and you've left a lot to the imagination.

As I said in my post 315 I think your post is effortless.

And I do not agree with how you read the game at all.

It doesn't help you that The General was really inactive as well. I think this day will come down to either you or Son of Zeus, and at the moment I find you scummier than him. We don't got much time left, and putting you to L-1 shows you that you need to do the work or get lynched. So far I think you are doing to little work. OK, you posted your reads, but I would really like some comments as to why you view it as you do (more then your recap post have done).

Well, if rereading 13 pages of stuff, formulating my read on everyone, and engaging in the first meaningful debate is effortless, then I'll take that as a compliment. Also, I don't care if you agree with how I read the game, I'm putting forward my ideas and thoughts. You seem to want me to sheep you.

Plus you haven't answered my question. 'Scummier than him' great, just great. I'd assumed that much. I asked you for

reasoning

. I'll reiterate, my reads are clear and if you've followed what I've written you should know exactly where I stand.

@Iamausername: I am doing so without limiting myself to 2 options. You should do the same.

P-edit: @Natirasha: I shall be wary of a DrDoLittle ML so I'll read up on his meta, but I not accept a SonofZeus lynch unless there is no alternative.

[frog]

Sorry everyone, but finals are killing me! They will be ending in a few days though so I can be more active then.

I haven't had the chance to read what happened, but I guess a lot of people think Frog and DrDolittle are bad.

vote SonOfZeus

This way, there's an even number of votes for three people so you can now choose better.

See you later!

This couldn't be more unhelpful or more awful. Especially at the given moment.

@SilverBard: Ok, it seems we are beating our heads against each other's here. It was intended to be, in part, a brainfart, given that reading and synthesising and condensing is a very large job. I don't see any reasons but I'll drop that for now. Let me ask a different question: under what circumstances would you be prepared to lynch DrDoLittle?

[frog]

I agree that SilverBard needs some pressing, but before, that, there's something I want to pursue.

Vote: Sweet Sixteen

[frog]

Talk about pots and kettles.
As far as setup is concerned, we're totally in the dark. It could well be 9-3-1, or the vig (if there is one) could have shot, or there was a *insert role here*. We literally don't know. TSB, your case relies on it being 9-3-1: something that isn't confirmed.

I absolutely have to juxtapose the following things:

At first I thought this might be a scumslip, or perhaps a vig doing a soft counterclaim.

I thought he was being stupid as fuck for doing it though, and even told him to shut up about the vigs, as I thought it was pretty obvious that he was "claiming" vig, and making himself a target for scum.

And

Hi, guys. I might have picked up a vig role in this game. So please, lets get some activity up in here so I don't have to shoot a lurker night one

.

I know this was a lot earlier in the game, and you've since said that you never claimed vig (???), but I don't believe this was ever clarified. What part of his comments scream vig anymore than your 'I might have picked up a vig role in this game'? Everything, literally everything, you've written in your assessment, can be applied to you. Watch:

Now seeing that there probably is a SK here,

The Silver Bards

softclaims makes more sense if he actually is a SK. Because then he could later claim vig and "prove" it by performing a NK. With this slash thing though he have now been exposed.

Bold is mine. I find your case confusing given your record of vig claims. Honestly, if there is an SK, I'm thinking it could be you.

[frog]

I've had a look at some setups with Monks in them and they all invariably have SKs or a third party of some sort. However, they vary considerably, from 9/3/1 to 9/2/2 to weirder ones, so we are still in the dark to some extent.

[frog]

A 9/2/2 doesn't make sense. No scumteam would ever want to NK a player like TSO. He is such an anti-town player that any scumteam would love to keep him around. He is also an easy mislynch to keep around. It makes more sense for a SK or a vig to kill him. A SK who is aiming to take out a bad scumplayer early to keep the game balanced would do smart in taking out TSO. Even if TSO should flip town, like he did now, it doesn't set the town that much back because you got rid of a player that is negative for town.

Any setup with a Monk makes sense, so don't discard 9/2/2. Given the odd flavour of this game it could be something weird. Also, all the stuff about TSO if WIFOM. Speculate all you want, scum wanted to kill them, and how towny he looks may or may not be a reason for that. I'm not finding anything you've said so far particularly helpful for us.

@TSB: I read 4nx as town.

Seconding the prod, only half of the playerbase has actually spoken since Day 2 dawned.

[frog]

We're getting led around far too much here.

The flavour implies TSO was killed by maf, and that imausername was killed by a third party of some sort. The fact of the matter is that TSO was killed, so somebody deemed it fit to kill him. Whether you think it was good or bad to kill him is irrelevant and I don't see why you're making such a song and dance about it.

[frog]

I feel you are pretty obviously newb town not being able to read me. Or, oh wait, you have join date 2010, so you are either scum or bad.

Adding snarkiness to your list of attributes this game isn't going to help your case. You don't need to stress your misunderstanding about TSO or that scum are winning (we've had 1 ml, get over it) either.

Inte, if reading TSB is giving you problems, can you tell us about a read you have on somebody else?

[frog]

Bard, do you want to stay alive?

[frog]

im prolly just gonna ignore bard

I might do the same.

[frog]

So inte, how are you today?

[frog]

I still think trying to look into why a certain night kill happened isn't fruitful, and my read on SonofZeus hasn't changed (perhaps because he hasn't posted since D1, seriously, where's the rest of the players?). 4nx, cute and lazy maybe, but don't you think Sweet Sixteen deserves some scrutiny?

TSB is sending me some frustrated vibes that could come from town, agreed, but that doesn't really change much.

[frog]

Thanks for replacing in, Espeonage. I disagree with much of what you have to say and I don't like your slot, especially after Sweet Sixteen, but I appreciate the effort.

@4nx: now there's nothing to say about Sweet Sixteen's play since she's gone. Great.

Unvote

[frog]

@Natirasha: Let me get this straight, since I've no experience with monks and masons: you've been monked and are the only player in your qt?

[frog]

That's L-1. The Silver Bard, could you please claim your role.

[frog]

That's fine. Please claim.

[frog]

Vanilla?

[frog]

Vote: The Silver Bard

Not comfortable about ending the day when some slots haven't posted a thing, but we do need to get the game moving and he is an inevitable lynch.

[frog]

I'm guessing that Nati and Espy have a plan for today.

I'm just a regular VT, and yes qwints, you gave me an 'artefact' last night.

[frog]

OK, important question. Which is want a response from everyone on. If only to confirm that I wasn't a hidden one shot.

Have you been hit by a vanilliser? If you were always VT and didn't get any message, just say no, not that you were always a VT.

I have not been hit by a vanillizer to my knowledge. The only thing I've been targeted by is an 'artefact', as far as I know, which qwints sent me.
If we're still claiming I'd popcorn to inte, as it would be nice for him to get involved.

[frog]

Okay awesome,

Why do you think that? Do you think the vig claim changes this?

If there are both masons and monks, as there seems to be, it suggests that there's a werewolf faction and a mafia faction out there.

The vig claim could change things depending on how you look at it. Inte's in a monkery, so he can't be a werewolf, but he could still be a Mafioso. That said, he's probably telling the truth about not shooting yesterday, as I can't think why else there were no kills out of a possible two.

@Nati/Espy: People have probably quietened down since you seem to have a very exclusive game plan. Honestly, aside from voting I can't see how I'm meant to contribute given I don't have access to the same information the two of you are hinting at.

@Hiraki/Nati: can you pinpoint exactly what about the proposed Anx lynch is making you uneasy?

[frog]

That is possible, but it is all conjecture at this point.

[frog]

It is true that Hiraki's a bit lurkerish today but I don't remember him being particularly active D1 either.

Inte, can you, I don't know, do something? Who would you vote for? What do you think of the two votes on you?

[frog]

Personally, I think inte being scum is given more likely given his claim. I've read 4nx as town so far, and I haven't seen much of a case on him. JacobSavage I'll look into later but his inactivity bothers me.

[frog]

Who wants to give me a summary of the current gamestate?

I'm confirmed town, inte is a vig and Espeon is a gunsmith.

Also, 4nx claims he has a role that allows him to choose someone to be a Monk.

Thanks for replacing in, Kaze. General consensus seems to be that inte or 4nx is scum.

[frog]

By the way, since I see zero reason not to claim, I'm a "Frenchie What Found an Artefact." As in Frenchman, I guess. There's a rather stereotypical picture of a man with a beret and pencil mustache going "Bonjour" in my PM.

I start the game with an "Artefact" which I guess Qwints gave to Frog night 2. I'm essentially a Vanilla now.

Frog, just to confirm, do you know what the Artefact does or no?

Yes, I know what the artefact does (which is, in fact, one of the rules about the artefact). I can give it to somebody at night, and everyone who has seen the artefact knows both of its powers.

Nati, your 636 is what I mean about an information imbalance. By all means keep your powers to yourself for safety reasons, but with all this monastery/masonry stuff I feel I'm left on the sides.

[frog]

Is that all you have to say, JacobSavage?

[frog]

There was more but I can't remember what it was...

This isn't really good enough.

Vote: JacobSavage

@Hiraki: of the four, I think JS is scum, inte is likely scum (and his claim fits nicely into what's happened so far). Not so sure on 4nx. Can't see where your suspicion of Kaze's coming from, though.

@Nati: obviously keep them to yourself, but I thought I'd illustrate where my frustration is coming from.

[frog]

I'm not sure if frog knows what it actually does. According to my role PM, the artefact has three rules:

1. Can be given at night without any other actions taken.
2. All owners, previous and current, know

1. and 2.

3. All who have ever owned it cannot be vanillaised.

I can't confirm either way. Your description says that all owners know rules 1 and 2 (though I can confirm hey are correct, though not direct copy/pastes of the rules I have in my pm) but I have not seen any rule 3.

[frog]

Ok, I won't copy/paste it as I am not sure what the rules are regarding that, but here is what they do but phrased differently.

The artefct has the following powers:

1) Without taking an action, I can give this artefact to somebody during the night.
2) Everyone who has received this artefact knows rules 1 and 2.

That's it.

[frog]

I don't understand why qwints gave it to me, but I read him as town, and there's nothing inconsistent with Kaze's claim from the information we have at the moment. I'll keep my vote on JacobSavage.

[frog]

GUESS WHAT WOLVES

YEAH GUESS WHAT

I LIED

WERE BULLETPROOF FOR FUCKING EVER

AND YOURE NOT KILLING ME EVER

DEAL WITH IT SCUM

AMEN AMEN AMEN

HALLELUJAH HALLELUJAH HALLELUJAH

Fair play for not outing this earlier. Also, glad you got the artefact: does it say the same thing for you as it does for me?

On setup: 9/2/2 seems unlikely; we probably have the classic 9/3/1 or 10/3 with wolves instead of Mafiosi. Inte's role does fit the SK slot, true, but it also fits one of the wolf slots. He's not clear by any means, especially given last night's results.

Kaze, if you're going to do what I think you're going to do (push on Espeonage) can you make a more accurate effort than yesterday?

[frog]

I want everyone to check in then move forward.

I know who I'm lynching depending on who 4nx targeted last night.

After 4nx's claim, who are you lynching? And now that he's answered, can you elaborate on what you mean here?

Kaze, your post was pretty bad. Amongst other things, you berate Espeonage over not calling L-1... when it wasn't L-1. All I see on Espeonage is 'opportunism', which I'm not buying (at least not with respect to his vote on you), so when I mean try harder, I mean less of the hyperbolic as in 701, and more detailing why Espeonage is scummy.

[frog]

But...I caught scum though. D:

Get on with it.

Vote: Kazekirimaru

[frog]

That makes me more confident that Kaze is scum.

[frog]

@Nati: I claimed yesterday, VT.

With only one claim of vanillaising happening, I don't think we have conclusive evidence that the artefact has a rule 3. Nati's 790 says it all. Though it is possible more people have been vanillaised. Not sure if VTs get a message about it or not, since they're already vanilla. *sigh* this is very fency.

Kaze, the exchange with Hiraki doesn't make you look good. Can you address the case, please. Also, who is your 'one other' in post 828?

[frog]

Sorry I'm late to the party.

People are echoing ideas that there has to be something that balances 4nx's role, and so far I think that some sort of Godfather is the most likely prospect. The wolf faction, and we know there's another wolf out there due to the kill flavour, essentially had a self-destruct, so it would make sense that they could 'clear' their other member in some way, else they'd lose outright.

However, if what Nati has said so far is correct, then inte is a likely suspect. It is the day after the wolf recruiter has died, and he's been removed from the quicktopic, which looks quite suspicious (Nati can you give us more info about this? How has he been removed, for example?). Furthermore, the mix of kill flavour is odd. Kaze was shot and torn to death, so either 3rd and wolf attacked him (though why the wolf faction would attack him is beyond me) or the two roles are combined somehow. The last two nights, inte 'forgot' to shoot? I find this unlikely, and with an absence of kills, he may have had a few shots at Nati and the monk group. This doesn't sit well with me.

Espeonage, I don't like how you're entertaining the monk group having scum in it but seem to be solely pursuing those outside of it. Having your cake and eating it, perhaps? Who is the maf in the monk group, then? You've been slinging since you replaced in and it is beginning to look like you're using it for opportunism.

[frog]

He shot last night.

And I really really think there is a mafia in the Monkery.

No, I threw that out.

I said I threw that out. I am a firm believer that there is no mafia in the monkery.

There was no intermediary between you 'really really' thinking there was a mafia in the monkery and being a 'firm believer' that this is the case. What's going on here?

[frog]

V/LA for 2 days

[frog]

Sorry for exiting so abruptly, everyone.

Anyhow, I've read through the last few days of content, and I'm inclined to agree with Natirasha. I was rather confused at the setup, especially after that flavour last night, but inte is as good as town for today. Werewolves can't be monks is correct, and I'm pretty sure this game isn't bastard. Inte's nightkill matches up and isn't scummy at all, especially after quadz and Nati confirmation. This leaves Espeonage and Hiraki in my lynch pool.

Espeonage can you get in here and answer my earlier query about you and thinking there is scum inside/outside the monastery?

[frog]

Vote: Espeonage

I'm quite comfortable with this vote. From Sweet Sixteen to his odd play when he replaced in, asking for a massclaim and dodging around issues, even professing opposite sentiments within a dozen posts of each other (see earlier) and not clearing this up, I'm quite convinced Espeonage is scum. Assuming 3 scum, Hiraki's there by PoE, but I'm much surer of Espeonage than I am of Hiraki.

L-1, by the way.

[frog]

Unvote

A no lynch might actually work.
Espeonage, I'm not sure if your understanding of mink abilities if correct, but regardless, tomorrow will be easier with one fewer player. Only problem is the possible presence of an SK.

[frog]

That's some pretty bad luck regarding the lack of a report. Anyhow, inte and quadz are pretty much clear as they were in the monastery at some point. Hiraki and Espeonage are in my lynch pool right now, and I don't mind which of them we go for.

[frog]

Also, I got the artefact again.

[frog]

Something we ought to bear in mind is Espeonage's claim.

[frog]

Vote: Espeonage

[frog]

Woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[frog]

Haha, yes, that was a bit tense.

I'm fine with releasing the scum qt. Was there a dead qt at all?