Mini 1519: Such unusual pretermen rarely exist; maybe evil?

[Espeonage]

Hello peoples. Going to do a bit of catchup. Wasn't expecting to get on during the holiday period but it seems I can. So yeah. What's my slot looking like?

[Espeonage]

Don't like Anx already on page one. TSB does that gambit all over the place so it's moot as far as I care. Bad argumenting. I actually liked the grey follow up. But username raises a valid point about the trap being abused by a scum mindset. Page 1 done.

[Espeonage]

The speed of Bard's wagon bothers me.

Yeah, but that means nothing without a flip, I am quoting this so I can go back in retrospect of my reads upon finishing my reread knowing Dolittle has flipped.

[Espeonage]

UNVOTE:

Now that we've eliminated the possibility of conftown because scum would never try out move out of RVS we can move on.

VOTE: SonOfZeus

That blanket statement reeks of overconfident scum trying to score townpoints by defending a townie.

For this I change my mind

VOTE: greygnarl

Please go die.

This is good posting.

Game is getting verbose on moot issues. No wonder activity dropped. Anx is still doing the pot shot from the sidelines play. I always see this style of play to be scum indicative as it avoids limelight while pushing agendas. Something town doesn't need to do.

Lots of stances I'm not agreeing with, and I feel people are taking stances for the sake of it, which is just making everything hard to digest.

[Espeonage]

I don't like TSB as of end of page 6. The vig argument aside. He posted to say he was winnign to discuss stuff, while stuff was being discussed around him, the retracts it soon after before anyone posted.

Then starts arguing semantics again which reads to me as scum frustrated about having to play and be alert, which is a common tell fro scums new to the MS meta, as they don't deal well with the over analysing process we have on the site.

So TSB and Anx, one more scum to go and this is done and dusted.

[Espeonage]

Anyone of you

on

these targets, would you be willing to lynch any of the other two?

I don't buy the burn case. His tone towards me feels town.


I buy the SonofZeus case, but I'm somewhat bothered by the fact that he voted for another of my scumreads under pressure.

Speaking of which, what do you think about the general's lurktastic self? Already making excuses for not posting and happy to go along with a couple wagons without saying anything. Also, bad at grammar.

I think generals lurking is in line with the general attitude of this game. I hate it, but whether it makes him scum or not is hard to say (but then again there might be 6 scums in this game…).

Are the townplayers of this game

happy with the way the game is evolving? Or are you all just bored to death with this game? Because seriously if you guys can’t do better than this you should just replace out, and let someone who wants to play in. The way this game is going scum will win unless they get unlucky

Also please prod burn.

This is from the next page. And I'd like to point out the wording of the bolded.

[Espeonage]

Yeah not even to page 8 and I am more than sure.

Vote: The Silver Bard

[Espeonage]

inte's behaviour screams of a possible TSB buddy with the various wish wash on that slot, especially considering the gamestate at which it happens with all the wagons at tipping point. But outside of the relational tell looks fine. Mainly posting this so it's in my iso for later.

[Espeonage]

I still want thegeneral lynched. Didn't know this was extended. Grey is a lot better of a lynch than dolittle imo.

Both grey an DrDolittle is bad lynches. Whats your thought on qwints?

This is a very scum post in that it asserts allignment knowledge known only to scum.

[Espeonage]

Except inte has probably had the most activity in the game.

Why can't we kill this cheeky scum?

:goodposting:

[Espeonage]

frog is scum because I completely and utterly disagree with most of the stuff he has posted upon replacing in.

(Yeah, serious. I have the three scum now. TSB, frog and Anx)

[Espeonage]

A 9/2/2 doesn't make sense. No scumteam would ever want to NK a player like TSO. He is such an anti-town player that any scumteam would love to keep him around. He is also an easy mislynch to keep around. It makes more sense for a SK or a vig to kill him. A SK who is aiming to take out a bad scumplayer early to keep the game balanced would do smart in taking out TSO. Even if TSO should flip town, like he did now, it doesn't set the town that much back because you got rid of a player that is negative for town.

Such WIFOM
Very Misdirection
So too scum
wow

[Espeonage]

Going to open some discussion here hopefully, someone talk me through why the other Monk shouldn't claim. And I think 2/2/9 is incredibly likely. And I wouldn't be surprised if those are just the kill flavors of the two mafia.

Using this assumption as it goes with the monk role makes it easier for scum to appear to be scumhunting, SO:

Naturally, Anx just got bumped up. Was doubting him in relation to TSB. I know I'm kinda lining up lynches, but they are scummy independant of each other and a multiball would make me feel good because it means I could be right in my reads.

Someone got an opinion on this?

[Espeonage]

Nah skimmed the last posts. But that's cool.

[Espeonage]

Ok. This setup is breakable. Massclaim happens tomorrow or the day after. Legitimately mad right now. Not going to elaborate. You're smart enough to figure it out Nat. We're going to carry this game.

[Espeonage]

And yes I did just say what you think I said so don't even ask. OK, to lynching TSB.

[Espeonage]

Wrong question. Who wasn't on Dolittle who should have been.

[Espeonage]

Mhm, because you know who isn't mafia, or werewolf.

[Espeonage]

Our doctor better have his head screwed on.

[Espeonage]

Going to ignore any possible sarcasm because then you just scumclaimed.

[Espeonage]

Still today's lynch

[Espeonage]

Anx.

[Espeonage]

Or Frog. TSB flipping scum will assure me that frog is scum. But for a singularly scummy candidate, Anx has it.

[Espeonage]

But cool peeps are sometimes given the wrong role PM.

[Espeonage]

Ok guys. Here's the deal. TSB is the lynch today. Pretty simple. Any arguments describing him as town are just speedhumps as he is too much of a liability to get to endgame.

Furthermore, and the main reason for this post is that this game has been hit seriously hard by apathy. Lynches, while not a cure, do help significantly as they lead to nights and nights have the bonus of more flips and more stuff to analyse which can help people limp back in to games.

On that note. Anyone looking to play themselves into the game, speak up. Say I would like someone to ask me some simple gamestate questions. Then, the active players can ask simple but pointed questions to start the dialogue. I know it helps me get into the games.

Yes, this could all be contrived, but there's time to get to that, and given the voting there is definitely drive, so go for it.

[Espeonage]

Nati is conf town.

I was the gunsmith. My predecessor didn't send in an action. I targetted NAti last night to 100% confirm. We know as a monk he can't be Werewolf. And we know because he does not possess a gun he can't be mafia. So Nati is conf town.

The reason I am cool with claiming is because I got vannilised last night and lost my role or something.

Anyway. Popcorning to Anx.

[Espeonage]

Unless serial killer, but that is super unlikely as discussed yesterday.

[Espeonage]

G

oing to open some discussion here hopefully, someone talk me through why the other Monk shouldn't claim. And I think 2/2/9 is incredibly likely. And I wouldn't be surprised if those are just the kill flavors of the two mafia.

U

sing this assumption as it goes with the monk role makes it easier for scum to appear to be scumhunting, SO:

N

aturally, Anx just got bumped up. Was doubting him in relation to TSB. I know I'm kinda lining up lynches, but they are scummy independant of each other and a multiball would make me feel good because it means I could be right in my reads.

S

omeone got an opinion on this?

[Espeonage]

Because I could hit someone from the other scum group which wouldn't show up.

Nati was a confirmed result. Either he'd show up with a gun and we'd have a very likely scum. Or he'd be completely cleared.

If I'd gone for someone else it might have been a town role with a gun, or a werewolf. Neither of which are useful results.

[Espeonage]

Did you get blocked at all Anx?

[Espeonage]

I'm kinda waiting on inte to get in here. Btw, I think Anx claimed his scum role.

[Espeonage]

Goodstuff. Anx Why inte?

[Espeonage]

The only real problem here is that some form of scum have a vanilliser.

[Espeonage]

It means he's either a miller or scum.

[Espeonage]

He said this after I claimed didn't he.

Pedit: So is scum controlling a neighbourhood that they can't be in.

Actually...

[Espeonage]

Logically thinking. The only people that know who aren't werewolves are the werewolves themselves. So considering it's a neighbourhood of non werewolves only, doesn't it just make too much sense that they would be the ones controlling it?

Or am I biased because I'm already reading Anx as scum?

[Espeonage]

Did he just?

I think I know who I want to hang.

[Espeonage]

I also want to hold off this massclaim here.

No one else claim yet.

[Espeonage]

Well what we know. There is a vannilliser. There are two people confirmed not one scum side, one of which confirmed town.

We know there is a gunsmith.
We know who is doing the masonising.

OK, important question. Which is want a response from everyone on. If only to confirm that I wasn't a hidden one shot.

Have you been hit by a vanilliser? If you were always VT and didn't get any message, just say no, not that you were always a VT.

I'm almost certain that Anx is Werewolf. And I'm willing to bet that the Scum PR is the vanilliser with each having a goon or something. There are either no or one town PR role left. If it's the latter I don't want to stick a target on that person's head for being turned into a vanilla.

Opinions. I don't want any more claims as a result. But the question answered would be lovely.

[Espeonage]

Of course my role also makes sense as being a werewolf role as well. But your news about the Wepick role makes me feel safer to put everything I have on the table.

[Espeonage]

Yeah I was, I claimed that.

[Espeonage]

1. Anx. You were already my biggest scumread from yesterday so don't even try to pull that.
1. Hiraki. It just makes more sense than him being mafia. Doesn't mean he isn't mafia, but that's what makes sense.

[Espeonage]

That would get nowhere, Nati is conf town.

Inte and Anx can be scum on different teams.

[Espeonage]

I thought it made decent sense. Was definitely a smart shot if you wanted to promote apathy in this game.

[Espeonage]

I'm vanilla now, it doesn't make a difference. But someone needs to protect Nati, because he will be conf town and scum will be all guns blazing for him dead.

[Espeonage]

Shrug, you make a good save, you being in lylo is good for us, so there's no reason not to be saving you.

Then do it. Why didn't you shoot last night? Or did I miss something?

[Espeonage]

No reason to not start voting.

Vote: Anx

[Espeonage]

Can you comprehend your cold-feet-ness?

[Espeonage]

Iffy on me, Anx, setup speculation, or in general?

[Espeonage]

The rest of the game aren't doing anything. How else is this game going to get done?

[Espeonage]

I've put everything I had on the table.

What if both have non consecutive kills?

[Espeonage]

Doesn't mean it isn't. Also doesn't mean he would know people would recognise that he had the role.

All that said, this is a spiral and it comes back to, is Anx scum, independent of the claim? I'm on him because the answer is yes for me.

[Espeonage]

I'm not wanting to lynch him based on the setup spec. I'll admit, it's a bit of a last nail in the coffin type thing. But, yeah he was my top pick after TSB.

[Espeonage]

It was to do with your day one play where you just sat around spurting without ever really taking responsibility for it. I think I put it as taking pot shots from the sidelines.

I went over it pretty heavily in my catchup posts when I entered the game.

[Espeonage]

It was to do with your day one play where you just sat around spurting without ever really taking responsibility for it. I think I put it as taking pot shots from the sidelines.

I went over it pretty heavily in my catchup posts when I entered the game.

no you didn't go into it heavily, no specifics, like what responsibility did I not take? which is why I've been pressuring you about it.

It's entirely possible that we just mafia, and the monk group is essentially just a bunch of neighbors.

tho the slash kill flavor indicates werewolf, or at the very least sk

thought Hiraki's early game play was very townish. Wondering what happened to qwints

okay with a JS lynched base on the SoZ slot but would like to see some reads from him

It's a bit hard to point out specifics when over 80% of your posts were doing it. You never took the center of a debate.

[Espeonage]

Unvote

I'm happy to leave this to tomorrow though.

[Espeonage]

We kinda already did. But I asked for it to stop because vanillaiser.

[Espeonage]

Because it hit me last night after I softclaimed

[Espeonage]

If this isn't multiball, this is the best scum wifom ever because scum are scared of the possibility.

@Anx, did I miss something I should have been answering?

[Espeonage]

@Hiraki: Anx, for the same reasons I've been touting all game, which amounts to active lurking. quadz is a good lynch if Anx flips scum, bad lynch if he doesn't. inte is a smart lynch, but I don't see much reaosn to vote him outside of role stuffs. Lurker would make a good lynch. Active scum is useful to town in a multiball game, so I'm not too worried about making sure it's entirely correct if we go that route, but Jacob is probs the best of those because he won't get better and his predecessor held alot of weight as a topic before I joined.

[Espeonage]

Jacob, Claim. This is intent to hammer.

[Espeonage]

His reasoning was less well articulated but effectively similar to mine. So I was cool with it for the time being.

I already expressed that Jacob is an ok lynch based on lurk + early game stuffs.

I do have a few qualms with how quickly this happened after I expressed some interest in it.
@Hiraki: Is Kaze the only scum on the wagon?

[Espeonage]

I haven't noticed one. This is not happening today. We can come back to this tomorrow.

I'd rather an Anx lynch to a Jacob one.

[Espeonage]

Have fun with that.

This is terrible.

Huh. Well then. This'll be my shortest game ever. Shame I couldn't swoop in and save the town like I wanted. Oh well.

This is worse.

Unvote, Vote: Kaze

[Espeonage]

I missed something didn't I.

[Espeonage]

tbh, Jacob I think you're wrong. It makes sense for the first 'owner' to know the power. However, there is room for him to not actually be the first owner if it got passed by one of the killed for example.
Then again there is nothing stopping him from both being the first owner and being scum and it having the claimed powers.
He could also be lying and it has no power other than being some cool sort of passable fruit vendor.

What I don't get is why this wasn't passed to the soft claimed power role last night which would have meant I wasn't vanillaised.

[Espeonage]

He said it was a vanilla protection.

[Espeonage]

Can I ask to be last of them?

Happy to shoot down either of the other two on Nat's list. But I'm more inclined to stick quadz or inte in my spot.

[Espeonage]

Btw the quadz inte is what I least want but could get behind. I'm actually pretty easy atm.

Why didn't inte take a shot?

[Espeonage]

Or he has the factional kill like we thought.

inte get in here.

[Espeonage]

Him having a gun tells us that already so nothing new there.

Btw, as an aside question, you still doing the whole wifom thing you've been so handily doing the past couple of days? It's great, don't get me wrong, but I want to be on the same page here.

[Espeonage]

Ok, I'm actually using this to form a read so equate that into your scrutiny.

I think inte might be telling the truth. And just didn't use it. Possibly blocked.
I want a Kaze lynch.

[Espeonage]

Actually nvm, I keep wifoming myself.

[Espeonage]

If it's a 3/5 we're at mylo. I think a no lynch with no discussion is a good way to go.

Not even joking.

PeditL Yeah, hence this post.

[Espeonage]

I have a theory, And it pretty much has all of my scumreads as town. Which sucks so bad.

However it would mean the scumteam is quadz, hiraki, frog.

That's my setup spec scumlist.

[Espeonage]

Anx or Hiraki?

[Espeonage]

I am not entertaining multiball anymore.

[Espeonage]

Yeah, but not multiball. And with this many scum left, SK is as good as town for the next couple of days. And we kinda know who the SK likely is (inte).

[Espeonage]

I don't think kaze is scum.

He pretty clearly said that only him as the first owner knew the real power of the artifact.

[Espeonage]

wud i know if i was vanillized

Yes it was at the end of the night result.

Kaze might be lying and made the vanilla immunity up on the fly idk, but I was definitely vanilla'd.

[Espeonage]

Wait, you were the one claiming to be vanillafied?

...

I need to rethink things.

How does that even change things?

[Espeonage]

That is the weakest argument I've possibly ever seen.

[Espeonage]

Because I'm not ready to lynch you. I'm both waiting for Nat and seeing how shit falls. I'm on the fence with you atm.

[Espeonage]

Anx?

[Espeonage]

I'm ok with this.

And I don't want to make this day monger than it has to be.

Vote: Anx

[Espeonage]

Btw, if the game isn't over by tomorrow and I die tonight. Nat isn't completely clear either.

[Espeonage]

If it was anyone but you, I would be fine to be completely clear. But I really wouldn't put it past you to pull out no kill, bus anx scumbud shenanigans.

Like 1.5% chance.

[Espeonage]

His play today has been terrible. And made me rethink yet again. I think it's been pretty obvious I've been very flip flop when it comes to Kaze for the past two game days.

[Espeonage]

That flip has to happen, and he has to flip wolf. There is enough wiggle room and almost bastard stuff that could happen to screw with everything and include you as scum. As I said like 1.5%

[Espeonage]

He's been dismissive, pretty simple.

[Espeonage]

So how can you call my argument weak if that's exactly what I'm arguing?

I never called your argument weak? What even?

[Espeonage]

Ummm, Anx lynch is what I've been dreaming of since I first set eyes on this thread.

[Espeonage]

Hiraki is looking good for mafia.

[Espeonage]

Idk, comes down to if you think my claim is a lie. And that I actively, tunnelmindedly was trying to pursue my scumbuds lynch since replacing in.

[Espeonage]

Ok, I want frog gone first.

[Espeonage]

It's two out of us three yes?

6 alive, lynch frog.
No kill because Monkery.
5 Alive, lynch Hiraki.
Game over.

We can just lynch through up three, because Scum can't NK. Either they shoot in the monks and it doesn't go through, or they shoot me and seal their fate.

[Espeonage]

However, that seems like a terrible setup design.

If you guys can't be NKed and are confirmed not Wolf.
Is it possible there is a Godfather in the monkery?

[Espeonage]

How does this setup even balanced if there isn't a godfather or something akin to it in the monkery.

[Espeonage]

Why are you refusing to see that possibility. It makes no sense for the setup to not have it.

Why would Anx not just refuse to use his ability then. And if it was compulsive, the setup is completely breakable and unbalanced in towns favor.

[Espeonage]

Nati, explain to me, in full detail how the protection works in the monkery, and then I want the other members to confirm that this is the information they also recieved when they joined the monkery.

[Espeonage]

Can the others confirm this?

[Espeonage]

Ok, going to suggest you just keep the protection on.

Vote: Frog

[Espeonage]

Numbers means they both are. And if it's a head to head between myself and Hiraki then I'd much rather frog die first, seeing as it does more to help point to me being town so the game doesn't mess up.

[Espeonage]

He shot last night.

And I really really think there is a mafia in the Monkery.

[Espeonage]

Read the night kill flavor.

[Espeonage]

I've fully explained the abilities. Quadz can confirm.

inte shot last night, we made him confirm it in-qt.

I'm very certain quadz is town.

A fun fact is...inte doesn't have access to our QT anymore. Whether this be a consequence of a vannilaizing or not, I do not know.

This makes me happier about about no scum in the monkery. Because without a counter to the monkery scum just wouldn't survive. Ok I'm happy with the kill all of myself, frog and hiraki now.

[Espeonage]

Problem is now though that inte is a safe kill for scum. Numbers are on our side however.

So we lynch one of Hiraki and frog. (I'm technically in there, but it's Mylo and if I am scum, this plan will make me lose if you lynch my bud today anyway.)
That leaves five of us left. Inte gets NK'd.
Now, the Monkery can then use their investigate. They don't say who is going to enact it, one of them just does it. They hit either me or the other one left.

They find out that I'm not scum, or that the other is scum, and tada, game over.

[Espeonage]

No, I threw that out.

I said I threw that out. I am a firm believer that there is no mafia in the monkery.

[Espeonage]

Well they can't shoot in the monkery because protected.

And they can't shoot out of it because that would secure the game over because I (the town left outside the monkery) dies and they just get lynched.

I went over this like a page or two back.

[Espeonage]

Yes there is, the vanillaise of inte.

[Espeonage]

Ok, something obviously isn't getting through.

I am absolutely equally for the lynch of Hiraki and frog I said as much. Multiple times. And don't bring up that inte can be killed now. I said as much. Earlier. It's like noone is reading my posts.
The game is frikking simple. Lynch one of us. An unnamed person in the monkery investigates instead of protects so the scum don't know and then everyone goes into the last day knowing who the scum is.

[Espeonage]

Mafia have to deal with SK inte anyway.

[Espeonage]

Of course it's agenda driven the game is almost over. Calling attention to traditional scumtells is how scum fall back when they realise they have to weave magic.

[Espeonage]

:/

Flavor says he did.

[Espeonage]

Yeah quadz, two of us are scum. Just choose whoever you think is most likely to be town and the pick on of the other two randomly.

Unvote

Imma jump on whoever gets lynch support.

[Espeonage]

I did. I said that there are categorically no scum in the masonry as far as I am concerned.

[Espeonage]

oshit, yeah.

Monks can do their investigate on one of us three tonight. Then that gives either the end of the game if they get an innocent or the lynch if they're scum.

Nice catch quadz.

[Espeonage]

Vote: No Lynch

[Espeonage]

2/4 baits a kill and gets a smaller lynch pool, and buys the monkery a night to do shit.

[Espeonage]

Cool so we now have a nice lylo, I know that it's Hiraki and Frog. They know it's me.

Nati dying means one of you did do an investigate. Do you both have the result or just one of you?

Because if you have this game is closed.

[Espeonage]

Welp, who you want out of Hiraki and Frog?

[Espeonage]

We're working on the assumption they are both town. That's how a monkery works.

The lynch pool for the rest of the game is you (Hiraki), myself, and frog.

Either they pick right, or they pick wrong. Both need to want to lynch the same and they both need to want to lynch scum. Game is in their hands. Either you two ready your quickhammer or I get a leisurely stroll up to Lylo v.2.0 And we go through this again.

[Espeonage]

It depended on who of quadz and nati did the investigation.

[Espeonage]

Actually it'd be 2/2/1 in a multiball and every faction could still win.

[Espeonage]

That's incredibly unlikely though.

[Espeonage]

Inte, got an opinion on scums?

[Espeonage]

Why does mafia want to find an anti town role?

[Espeonage]

Fair nuff.

I'm just going to say that my post claim play does not equate to that of someone in a werewolf faction.

And now it rests in inte and your hands.

[Espeonage]

Well it does. Design wise, my role is equally retarded for town and scum.

Unvote before they both get in here.

[Espeonage]

You have to get inte to switch before they do log on.

[Espeonage]

Vote: Hiraki

as well btw.