Mini 1539 - UDesign (DAY 4)

[StrangerCoug]

OK. Let's see here...

• #9 and #11 are good ways to start the game. I think TheFuzzylogic99's post helps him more than Titus is helped by his since I oppose a role submission claim at this stage, but since Titus acknowledges the danger of this I think both of them can be put in the town column this early.
  
• #17: Anti-town.
  
• #32: I'm wary about this vote here. Why the jump on something that ultimately doesn't really matter?
  
• #45: This post is what is keeping BBmolla safe for right now. I honestly think its operation is a bit confusing, but if I understand everything correctly, that BBmolla sent in a revealer is mod-confirmed. Is that correct?
  
• #63: Sold. VOTE: The Silver Bard.
  
• #79: If you think a player is an asshole, then you think that player is an asshole. We are not the thought police, but voting people for being assholes is counterproductive. Either deal with the player or replace out.

I do not feel comfortable claiming my submission at this time. I'm pretty sure the person who has it (if any) is town, but claiming my submission gives scum something to plan around, and I do not want them to be able to do that with mine.

[StrangerCoug]

We're also not all in on the claiming submissions plan. Anyone whose submission is distinctly antitown, see Janitor, should claim. Everyone else, personal discretion for now.

Understood. I saw a few people do it and wanted to make clear why I wasn't following suit.

[StrangerCoug]

Could be an ongoing game.

Now you have me worried...

[StrangerCoug]

That's good. I'm very worried about TSB.

[StrangerCoug]

That's good. I'm very worried about TSB.

Why? All signs point to TSB being scum, so why are you worried?

The initial alarm was that the mod team is strict about ongoing games. TSB's actions are pretty much the remaining worry. If he acts like this in future games, he will basically be a big, giant lynch magnet. (I had to grow out of that stage, too.) That said, I agree with your statement, and we are best off without him. He has put personal gains over scumhunting, which aligns more with a scum mindset with a town mindset, and we have no evidence against TSB being scum.

TL;DR: I feel sorry for him, but I have to put scumhunting over my emotions, too.

[StrangerCoug]

It's honestly disappointing cause I thought he was great in our last game together. Don't understand why he's all pissed about Fu.

I'd rather not waste time worrying about his mindset. I do hope that he learns from this game, though.

[StrangerCoug]

VOTE: Fuzzylogic

His posting implies he already knew that TSB was town.

In what way? Could you demonstrate for us, please?

[StrangerCoug]

Look at 112, he says he doesn't want "the town" to start imploding. Normally, that's no big deal. In context, it looks like whiteknighting though. He says the wagon might not be a good idea, but we should interrogate him anyway. He says the town imploded. Seems like a clear attempt to craft a narrative of chaos.

Also, the whitknighting in 112 implies knowledge that TSB was town. Overall, the opening is very scummy.

I see your point here.

I dunno, I don't get scum intent from fuzzy wanting to slow down the bard lynch. In retrospect appears pro town to me.

okay maybe we should all take a breath.... we dont want the town to start imploding

Think we need to step back for a second before we precede with the interrogation of Bard

This post seemed out of place, what is with the subtle defense of bard, fuzzy?

Oh shit, you fucking contradicting piece of shit.

FoS: FuDuzn

VOTE: FuDuzn

Explain what Venmar posted here right now.

[StrangerCoug]

Stranger, I already did in 185, specifically the pre edit part. But since you missed it here it is:

Venmar on the other hand I feel was trying to get a counter wagon going, or at the very least knew that bard would flip town and wanted to set up a day 2 mislynch.

I don't understand how you came to this conclusion at all, wtf? Is it my fault you're gullible to people saying obvious shit?

No, I was thinking the same.thing as you yesterday, remember that you wanted a high five? Difference being that once bard flipped town I thought it became clear that fuzzy didn't have nefarious intent. But you are still going with it and trying to still make fuzzy appear scummy.

Pre edit: Yes no shit, at that point I thought bard was scum and fuzzy could have been his scum buddy protector him, on viously that wasn't the case though right?

Also I know that white knighting can be a scum tell, that is not how I viewed the post by fuzzy though.

That's better. My bad.
UNVOTE: FuDuzn.

Oh i see i didnt fully understand it. So the player that is the revealer is town. and if it was scum the mod would have said so. but then what does this do.

Reveal:Vigilante

VOTE: Hanzo_5

Why do you want to tell the scum what roles are and are not in the game?

[StrangerCoug]

If everyone but me is agreed that she is conf town and not clever maf. I will sheep whoever she decides to lynch.

A Hanzo lynch is a dumb lynch and i wont go along with that.

You guys lynching him for claiming VT was probably the worst town move ever.

I think we should choose a lynch from the people on the wagon.

Instead of going "wah, wah, wah, TSB's lynch was epic fail," how about you be productive and give us reads? I'm unable to get anything from you except for a weak Titus case, and your gross oversimplification of the reasons for The Silver Bard's lynch and your attempting to out the presence or absence of a power role (albeit based on a misunderstanding of the revealer role) do not sit well with me.

[StrangerCoug]

No opposition to a TheFuzzylogic99 lynch right now.

[StrangerCoug]

No opposition to a TheFuzzylogic99 lynch right now.

Vote him. Then we can use the dayvig plan.

Let's roll, then.

UNVOTE: Hanzo_5 and reduce to

HoS: Hanzo_5

VOTE: TheFuzzylogic99

[StrangerCoug]

Cougar

I strongly object to my mislynch. This is a very bad decison

And this is supposed to tell me what? You have done nothing to convince me you are town, and neither has your scumbuddy Hanzo_5. Both of you are whining and complaining without doing anything productive.

[StrangerCoug]

Why is Hanzo scum? Start from scratch please SC?

The flag was raised in post #195 where he tried to reveal the presence or absence of a dayvig, which would have given scum too much information about roles in the game to my liking had it worked. The other thing working against him is that, of the eight posts he's made in the 24 hours or so that he's been here, none of them gives us anything in the way of useful information. I have no clue what he thinks about other people at all. Or TheFuzzylogic99, for that matter. I wouldn't bet my life on a Fuzzylogic-Hanzo link but I see similarities in their behavior lately.

[StrangerCoug]

I agree on the lack of content, but he seems to genuinely not understand the revealer from my perspective. Is there anything that suggests he did but was lying?

I don't have evidence in favor of Hanzo_5 being a liar.

[StrangerCoug]

Not really impressed with the Venmar case. C'mon, TheFuzzylogic99, you'd be voting Venmar if you believed yourself. You haven't touched your vote all game.

[StrangerCoug]

There's the "No rush", "Lets think things through" stuff again. Fuzzy, why are you simply implying we should slow down and think rather than trying to convince us you're town?

Choo Choo motherfuckers.

Why are you in such a rush to freaking mislynch me..... Plus on very poor evidence.

If your not scum you are a very aweful townie!!!!! I am leaning scum

VOTE: Venmar

I did push a vote on Vanmer....... did you somehow miss it?

I was going by the last votecount. Sorry.

[StrangerCoug]

Cougar- Prob town but her sheeping has me a bit worried

One, I am male. Two, I am not sheeping you.

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: Please note sig.

[StrangerCoug]

Thoughts

I dont like cougar, i feel like he crumbed a follow or a savior role. If he should not have said anything at all.

This only makes much sense as a scum tell if you think I'm trying to either get town cred or set up a fakeclaim for later. Do you believe either is true? Why? I don't understand your thought processes here.

[StrangerCoug]

@Coug, Im not really forming theories. I see it as bad town play. I explained this in my post. Read my shit playboy.

I did. You have not made any other negative remark about my play, yet your read on me is "null scum". If I'm not supposed to read much more into your stated read than that, OK.

Disinclined to lynch Venmar right now.

[StrangerCoug]

@Coug, the part you should have read was under my read of you. It explains why i think its bad town play. Do you need clarification beyond that? Im not trying to be mean but, I wont do any leg work for you.

My original response to you implies that I understand why you think breadcrumbing is antitown. I refuse to say anything about whether I was breadcrumbing either way because it gives the scum even

MORE

help, but there are only a limited number of scum motives to do it in the first place. It is, as you said, more anti-town than scummy (as it risks scum picking up on it and getting myself killed).

I think we are all feeling that way coug, is there a reason your not, buying the fuzzy case?

Now who's not reading? I

AM

buying the Fuzzy case. It's Venmar whose lynch I don't approve right now.

Coug read is more of a vibey thing.

What I feel right now is Venmar and Fuzzy are town v town. Coug just seems to be cautious scum mediator trying to weigh in on which hammer is less scummy. Hanzo is pretty much on the same boat but his ignorance is amusing.

Since when do I not have the right to a brain? I've spelled out my opinions as clearly as I can, and that's helpful to town.

[StrangerCoug]

You know that's weak as hell, Katarina. You've now replaced Hanzo_5 on my scumlist.

[StrangerCoug]

You can cut the snark and give a better reason for your vote for me than what you've given. My reads today have been relatively stable.

[StrangerCoug]

Pretty happy with my Fuzzy vote right now in this comedy of errors.

[StrangerCoug]

@Coug, you just crumbed that you had a power role(clarification).

And how, exactly, is bringing it to everyone's attention not even more anti-town?

[StrangerCoug]

@Coug, Its not anti-town from my perspective(im biased). I'm letting town know your doing this. Your crumbing, a power role that, you also crumbed, that maf has to work around. I'm reading this as setting yourself up for a pr claim to avoid a lynch. This is a scum tell in my book.

If this isn't you scum intent then just play town better next game and avoid stuff like that.(general advice, I still think its a scum tell and not bad town play.

Hanzo_5, the point of breadcrumbing is for scum not to notice. By alerting everyone, not only do you increase the chances of me getting nightkilled by the scum, but you also sabotage any usefulness of any power role I have.

May I also remind you that you rejected the possibility of my setting up a PR fakeclaim earlier when I called you out on this the first time. Now you believe it likely, so something has to give, but my continuing to be a klutz? Seriously?

You are actively and openly trying to get me killed at all costs, and I will not allow anybody to forget that.

[StrangerCoug]

Strangercoug, why would Hanzo "try to get you killed for crumbs" as scum? Wouldn't it just make sense to tell that to his scum buddies?

Theoretically, yes, but announcing it to everyone removes the requirement that he avoid a lynch today to do damage to the town. Scumbuddies would be included in "everyone".

Cougar can you explain why you jumped on my wagon bc it seems like you did it to go along with the crowd....

basically you asked if anyone objects to my wagon and than jumped on.....you gave no reason to do so. I think you need to explain yourself .

I did not ask if there were objections to your wagon. I stated I had none myself. Read #226 again.

Also why are you jumping from player to player with your votes. You seem to vote wherever the takes you

I am not. I've changed my vote twice today and I never changed my Day 1 vote. Averaging one vote change a day is hardly "voting wherever the wind takes me."

The vote on FuDuzn was based on a misunderstanding that should have been clarified already when I voted him (two apparently contradicting statements prompted by Venmar pointing it out), so I concede that was bad.

Hanzo_5's case on me (breadcrumbing/setting up fakeclaim) is circumstantial at best. He claims I'm being antitown with my breadcrumbing when he's adding fuel to the fire by pointing this out. I haven't forgotten his attempt to reveal whether there was a dayvig, however ill he understood the role at the time.

It took some prompting out of you to be much help, and you never really did much scumhunting until #272--toward the bottom of page 11. Most of your time here has been spent complaining about the town.

You and Hanzo_5 both live in a fantasy land. If I were a doublevoter, I'd be voting both of you right now. Your uselessness and gross distortions of the game are scummy.

[StrangerCoug]

@ Strange

You had three different votes today..Why should we believe that your votes are earnest and not opportunistic since your vote do not seem to be based on anything solid enough to warrant a vote.? Also you changed your vote twice within a 5 post margin.

Read my last post again. These are questions that have been answered already.

I have not begun to ensure that you die. I think I am starting to see why you need to be lynched. The case against you is more damning than anything put forward right now.

Care to state it in your own words?

Why did you crumb? What is your stated reasoning?

I refuse to answer these questions, and they are loaded anyway.

[StrangerCoug]

A town PR crumbing is obviously possible but if you were a role that would immediately benefit scum if they pick up on it then I'd say it was a pretty shit gambit.

I hear about town breadcrumbing more often than not, and Titus has demonstrated how breadcrumbing can actually be a requirement for good town play. So why is breadcrumbing scummy in this specific case? "Because I'm setting a fakeclaim up for later" is circumstantial evidence, not an answer.

[StrangerCoug]

So SC's actions may or may not be town depending on her role.

For the second time, I am male.

[StrangerCoug]

@ Cougar
It still does not change the fact you change your mind twice and placed three votes on three different people within five posts. Also you give no reason why you place your votes on Hanzo or why you changed it .... you just stated that his case against was bad.You also never post why you put your vote on me since in #174 you seem to think that my action are not scum. I am not saying you are scum yet but I think you need to explain these things..

I unvoted Fu_Duzn so quickly because I realized it was crap. I am not going to be a broken record about this.

You are also going by my posts in ISO when you say that I made three votes in five posts, which paints an inaccurate picture in the context of the game. My first vote today is on post #194, my second in #197, and my third in #229. Taking everyone else's posts into account, my third Day 2 vote is actually 35 votes after my first. As regards #174, you are making the assumption that my reads are static, which should be pretty obviously contradicted by my voting record.

I

HAVE

given explanations for my votes. You are not reading them. If you would like to demonstrate how my stated reasons are unsatisfactory, I am willing to listen. However, it is not my job to please you.

[StrangerCoug]

Drop the breadcrumbing case on me or die, Hanzo_5. You are helping the scum by bringing it to the forefront, it is circumstantial (as I have said), and I will not have it anymore.

[StrangerCoug]

Answer my question.

NO.

UNVOTE: TheFuzzylogic99
VOTE: Hanzo_5

You want me to give the scum information about what kind of power I have if I have one. I have repeatedly refused your requests for this reason, yet you continue to press on. This game will not be handed to the scum on a silver platter.

[StrangerCoug]

Belittle me all you want, Hanzo_5. Nothing's changing my mind about you.

[StrangerCoug]

Why she crumbed necessitates understanding the role.

First, where did she crumb?

Get my gender right. Damn.

[StrangerCoug]

@Coug, I would appreciate an answer, idk why you think your reason for crumbing is indicative of your role. It's indicative of your intent. Stop stalling and answer the question.

When are you going to accept that you're never going to receive an answer? ...Oh, that's right—that time's never going to come. Because that information is important to your scum team, and you will do everything in your power to make sure you and your cronies have it. Good luck, because I'm not budging.

[StrangerCoug]

Care to help dispose of one of the people that thinks that way?

[StrangerCoug]

Lol not Kat, but i'm fine with a Hanzo lynch.

I am still of the opinion Fuzzy is more likely scum though.

I was asking about Hanzo, but Fuzzy hasn't gone anywhere in my scumlist.

[StrangerCoug]

@StrangerCoug I don't know what that means, are you saying he's still on it or not on it anymore?

Still on it.

@Coug, let me get this straight, the reason you crumbed, is: information that is solely useful to mafia. Is this what your getting at? If this is the case can you answer this question. What benefit did town recieve from crumbing that you submitted a role mafia has to work around? What benefit did town gain from you crumbing you have a pr?

I'm currently assuming this: Your first crumb alerts mafia, and if this role is not in the game it gives town false confidence. Your second claim definately sets you up for a PR Claim.

What I'm getting that is that complying with your requests to answer your questions is more useful to scum than town. I never said that town wouldn't receive a benefit to my doing so. They would, but at a cost I am not willing to pay.

From now on I am outright ignoring any post from you as regards breadcrumbing.

[StrangerCoug]

@ Cougar
For whatever reason I cant completely load page 17 so i dont know if I miss anything important. Your vote on Hanzo is bc you believe he want to oust your role , if you have one, to the scum. Im I correct in my analysis of why you voted Hanzo. If I miss something let me know.

That is essentially correct.

[StrangerCoug]

Why would hammering TheFuzzylogic99 render you a scapegoat if he is town? I don't understand.

[StrangerCoug]

Cougar
What would you say to people who would say your vote from me to Hanzo is optimistic since it Hanzo seems to be the main center of attention now and a good lynch target.

That being optimistic is not a bad thing in the slightest

[StrangerCoug]

@ Cougar
I hope you are not trying to be cute bc it does not bode well..... Right now it seems to me that you are voting based on getting an easiest lynch which is scummy and has no town motivation at all. Your comment does not do anything to change my mind

Nope. Hanzo_5 has proven himself scum without my help. If you don't understand why I answered the way I did, you may want to reread your own question. Garbage in, garbage out.

[StrangerCoug]

@ cougar
you knew what I was trying to say and if you didnt than you should ask to clarify. I am not amused with you trying to cute, You are seeming to be scummier and scummier by the moment.

It is not my responsibility to make sure that your posts are accurately phrased. That is what the preview button is for. The "garbage in, garbage out" comment is supposed to imply that I was pretty sure at the time that you meant something else; however, I did answer the question as phrased.

You place your vote based on one piece of evidence and theat evidence is usually weak ( you even admitted so yourself).

Number one, the admittedly weak reason is as regards Fu_Duzn, not everybody. Don't misrepresent me like that.

Number two, I am not writing a term paper here. The quality of my given reasons should be sufficient.

Whenever it seems the crowd focus on another player or seems they might change their focus you swing your vote to the new target. You have not done anything in my opinion to change my mind.

I was the first person to put a vote on Hanzo_5 and I currently have only one other buyer, so it is hardly accurate to say that I am just going with the crowd trying to find the easiest lynch possible. The closest I've come is sheeping Titus when I voted you. (That, by the way, is the answer to the question I

THINK

you meant to ask.)

@SC
why did you think TSB was scum? Because as shown above, Titus' reason was bad and you quoted it as reason.

The Silver Bard was not voting because he thought the person he was voting was scummy. He was voting to bully someone out of the game. That's not a good example of town play.

are you even reading the game? You point things out which i wouldn't expect from you and you sometimes point them out at a strange moment.
Add post 352 to not reading the game and a very very scummy post.

I need you to mention specifics, please. What am I pointing out that seems odd to you? What's bad about post #352?

i need reads from the following people --> Venmar, Hanzo, Fuzzy, & Strangercoug

Town: Katarina, Titus
Leaning town: Venmar, a little less so Jingle
Scum: Fuzzy, Hanzo

I don't have good reads on anyone else.

@Venmar what is your thoughts on Hanzo's post # 467 ?
@Fuzzy & StrangerCoug same question

I find his post self-conceited and off-base.

[StrangerCoug]

Why would hammering TheFuzzylogic99 render you a scapegoat if he is town? I don't understand.

I know that common sense is not an actual commonality among people. however common sense would dictate that the person who hammers on town is likely scum. Or atleast will be seen as scum. Which is why I think scum tries there best to not hammer.

There is some logic in this explanation—you want to hammer responsibly. I understand your post better now.

[StrangerCoug]

Hanzo is town. I'm town, I still think Cougar is scum just from his coachy tone.

Elaborate on the "coachy tone", please.

or maybe we should shift sights to inactives!

I think there are plenty of active players in the lynch pool.

Kat is prob scum as well, shame since I liked her early on.

Katarina claimed revealer and she has not been counterclaimed. Titus pointed this out when I said I thought she was scum.

[StrangerCoug]

Was never a big fan of it, either.

[StrangerCoug]

@StrangerCoug your answer to my post # 509 in your post # 511 you threw a curveball when you answered

In what way?

[StrangerCoug]

When you said "curveball", I thought you thought the answer was unexpected. Instead, I'm getting the impression that you're telling me the answer is disappointingly not noteworthy. That's two different things.

*sigh* I feel like we've gone from one bad extreme to another. First we were trying to out everybody and their mother, and now we've swung the pendulum too far the other way with unhelpful vagueness. What's with everyone?

[StrangerCoug]

Cougar- To me it seems Cougar seems to be jumping on the popular target at the moment. He had three votes in five posts and than when the tide looked like it was turning toward Hanzo it seems he jumped to place a vote on that player. His votes seem opportunistic and I felt that he needed to be pressure to hwlp decide if he was being opportunistic o if that was just something that i wrongly perceived.

Again, you misrepresent me. I was

CONTROLLING

the tide toward Hanzo and really had nobody to follow.

[StrangerCoug]

OMG Zekrom, shit or get off the pot.

Also, why does it sound like you have already reached a conclusion and you are just trying to tailor your argument to fit this conclusion.

Zekrom25

IS

starting to ping my scumdar a tad with his extremely limited content. C'mon, Zekrom, it's only 22 pages.

[StrangerCoug]

I know TheFuzzylogic99's only at L-2, but I plan to hammer. I'm done with his lies.

[StrangerCoug]

We really don't have much to lose by getting rid of Fuzzy. I would have expected him not to cuss us out when he claimed, and this makes his claim sound more desperate than genuine to me.

VOTE: TheFuzzylogic99

See you in hell.

[StrangerCoug]

I am not trying to divide the town. I genuinely believed I hammered him, and I am able and willing to defend myself accordingly.

I have no reason to question TheTrollie's submission, so if I indeed miscounted I will UNVOTE: TheFuzzlylogic99 (since scum has no reason to fake sending that unless they're Fuzzy's scumbuddy, and even then it's kind of suicidal for my liking) and go back to VOTE: Hanzo_5.

[StrangerCoug]

@SC
1. Leblanc claimed revealer. We know revealer is in the game, so unless there's a CC, she's it. Yet, you put her on your scumlist afterwards. Not reading.

Conceded.

2. Hanzo pointed out that scum have daytalk, which titus acknowledged. Yet, you still use the reason that hanzo-scum pointed out your breadcrumb for his buddies. Not reading.

I'm not used to scum daytalk. That simple.

3. To me, it seems you're only responding to things at you or easy suspicions (see Fu). When fuzzy explains his actions, you don't respond to them.

I am not required to respond to everything in this thread.

Still not buying both TheTrollie and TheFuzzylogic99 as scum, and even if it's Trollie I think we have bigger fish to fry right now.

[StrangerCoug]

I do not have a good reason to question Titus's claim but I still need time to think about #629. The back of my head is telling me I'm letting myself be fooled...

Zekrom25, who are your current scum reads and why?

[StrangerCoug]

2. Hanzo pointed out that scum have daytalk, which titus acknowledged. Yet, you still use the reason that hanzo-scum pointed out your breadcrumb for his buddies. Not reading.

I'm not used to scum daytalk. That simple.

Then what is your case against Hanzo?

He kept asking me to explain why I allegedly breadcrumbed despite my continuously refusing to confirm or deny that I did so. He was effectively trying to force me to softclaim, and I could not comply with his requests in a pro-town manner. So I wasn't going to budge.

True, but I would expect that if you have your suspicions and someone is explaining his actions, you would at least mention them. Heck, I don't even know why you're still suspecting Fuzzy and Hanzo.

TheFuzzylogic99 is no longer being considered for scum unless I hear a counterclaim, but my case on him at the time was his constant misrep.

I hope to hear your thoughts on post 629 soon.

The main issue I have with the post is that it is making me second-guess whether my mentally clearing TheTrollie based on his submission claim was a good idea. It makes little sense from town who's been reading the game.

I'm good with DisCode-town right now. Sensible scumhunting.

[StrangerCoug]

EBWOP to fix quote tags:

2. Hanzo pointed out that scum have daytalk, which titus acknowledged. Yet, you still use the reason that hanzo-scum pointed out your breadcrumb for his buddies. Not reading.

I'm not used to scum daytalk. That simple.

Then what is your case against Hanzo?

He kept asking me to explain why I allegedly breadcrumbed despite my continuously refusing to confirm or deny that I did so. He was effectively trying to force me to softclaim, and I could not comply with his requests in a pro-town manner. So I wasn't going to budge.

True, but I would expect that if you have your suspicions and someone is explaining his actions, you would at least mention them. Heck, I don't even know why you're still suspecting Fuzzy and Hanzo.

TheFuzzylogic99 is no longer being considered for scum unless I hear a counterclaim, but my case on him at the time was his constant misrep.

I hope to hear your thoughts on post 629 soon.

The main issue I have with the post is that it is making me second-guess whether my mentally clearing TheTrollie based on his submission claim was a good idea. It makes little sense from town who's been reading the game.

I'm good with DisCode-town right now. Sensible scumhunting.

[StrangerCoug]

Katarina, don't bash yourself like that. You'll get better.

[StrangerCoug]

Right now, I think the team is Hanzo_5, TheTrollie, and Zekrom25.

• The reasons for Hanzo_5-scum have been explained to death.
  
• I have serious questions about TheTrollie's push on Titus. An insanely convoluted as hell role? That's what he wants to think Titus has, but the game mechanics lead me to think otherwise. Since the cat's already out of the bag,
  I am going to claim right now that I think my submission got incorporated into Titus's role given her explanation thereof.
  
  
• Zekrom25 has not been contributing anything of use at all. It's as if he's not there.

Before we continue, @SC, can you tell me your thoughts about Titus' claim? For example, his timing, his explanations and the questioning around it?
That's what I wanted to hear from you.

I don't find any problems with any of the above except maybe timing. That's not a role I wouldn't have claimed unpressured except in LYLO. For her explanation of her role, see above.

[StrangerCoug]

@SC HOW does Post # 714 help the town ?

It helps the town in that it puts my reads in the open for others to analyze.

Now, for you: How do

ANY

of your posts help the town?

[StrangerCoug]

my recommendations of who to vote for are

Fuzzy - first
or
Hanzo - second

as a town we need to survive together

I asked you to explain how your posts have been helpful to the town, not give examples of posts that you claim have been helpful to the town. Put some effort in this game.

[StrangerCoug]

TheTrollie, if Titus is not dead after your first post tomorrow, you will be treated as confirmed scum. Understand?

[StrangerCoug]

Try again, Hanzo_5.

[StrangerCoug]

The fact that you are using mod-WIFOM in an attempt to discredit Titus, especially with these mechanics, is also not changing.

[StrangerCoug]

Im not liking how Titus has been behind atleast two bad wagons and very likely three if Hanzo flips town which Im pretty sure he will. This is not including Trollie who might be town.

Uhh... TheFuzzylogic99, TheTrollie counterclaimed Titus. There's a very high chance one of them is scum.

[StrangerCoug]

@Fuzzy i am saying Hanzo_5 didn't hammer your lynch when you were at L-1 like Hanzo_5 said Hanzo_5 would

I'm not killing myself to kill the person I'm counterclaiming... do you even know how to play this game?

Do you even know the first thing about Mafia strategy?

[StrangerCoug]

VOTE: TheTrollie

Not the suicide bomber. He would have blown up Titus by now.

So why aren't you questioning her about the timing?

It's... weird, but I'm hard-pressed to see how claiming that early benefits scum.

And what do you think of her claiming she has both a day and night action, which work differently?

I think my submission ended up being turned into her night action.

[StrangerCoug]

Missed a question:

Last, why do you only want Trollie to blow up titus, but didn't you 'threaten' titus to blow up Trollie?

I have a strong town read on Titus. I thought she would have blown up TheTrollie on her first post with no prompting.

[StrangerCoug]

It does, but you had plenty of opportunity on Day 2 to do it, so it looks worse on you. Why didn't you blow up who should have been confirmed scum to you?

[StrangerCoug]

Very well, then, if you preferred to save your shot for someone you weren't counterclaiming, then why did you counterclaim?

[StrangerCoug]

@ Cougar
why do you believe Titus is town especially since he has been on three bad wagons and two bad lynches

I find Titus's claim more credible, and being on two mislynches is not inherently scummy.

[StrangerCoug]

TITUS IS SCUM

moving on

I am a

redirector

Yeah. Smart move, backing out of one claim and picking another role. I'm counterclaiming you.

My Night 1 action was to redirect BBmolla to Jingle, which obviously failed. Night 2 was Titus to Zekrom25.

My strategy was to play my role as a pseudo-vigilante. I did not redirect from Katarina LeBlanc on Night 2 because I thought Titus was the bigger loss if she died.

[StrangerCoug]

I was actually confused about that myself. The wiki for the redirector says that the other one is possible here, too, but less common.

[StrangerCoug]

Zekrom

Are you the Tracker or not bc you seem to claim that in 634... If you are than who did you follow and what results did you get???

Welcome back to my scumlist.

So tell me why scum-Trollie would counterclaim. Because if Trollie is scum, he'd 'know' that Titus is suicide bomber and would risk being blown up. Then we'll talk why Titus would claim so early.

Lynch me if I know. I'm not TheTrollie's scumbuddy, and regardless of his alignment I think TheTrollie's on the crazy side.

ok well i am redirector...i believe 2 ppl claimed they submitted redirector so we can both be redirector, even though i still think you are scum

I don't consider two redirectors likely for balance reasons. We both claim to have redirected BBmolla on Night 1. And that's supposed to work out how, exactly?

2. Why redirect to jingle?

Jingle looked bad to me in the context of The Silver Bard's lynch. Granted, I haven't really pursued him over that and my read on him has improved,

3. You claim redirector, yet you looked at the wiki. You may enlighten me, as this is really strange.

I looked at that after asking the mod if I can redirect players to themselves and I got a response from the mod pretty much wondering why I'd do that (to paraphrase him). After claiming he used the version in the wiki, I looked it up. My Day 1 action would have been Jingle to TheTrollie if I had not realized I had misunderstood my role.

It's better for scum to lynch town, instead of his buddy, especially in a bastard game.

What, if anything, leads you to think that this is a bastard mod game? The last clause of this looks weird.

[StrangerCoug]

What post, specifically?

[StrangerCoug]

Have a safe trip!

[StrangerCoug]

If there are two redirectors I wonder how a mod would resolve a situation where they both target the same person... that would be annoying...

That's why I believe there is only one redirector in this game—it skirts having to deal with that kind of mess. Same reason why multiple roleblockers are rare.

yeah dude Titus is back to 100% scum... i regret taking back my bomber claim

Then what the hell are you!? You take the suicide bomber claim back, claim redirector instead, and then wish out loud that you'd have stuck with the SB claim.

...Actually, better question: Given I think you are scum, why the hell do I care what you're claiming?

[StrangerCoug]

The reason I asked Zek about being a tracker is bc I believe is fake claiming. I believe that he is scum trying to hide behind a fake claim and nobody has caught that. Like I said he has not scum hunted and he has voted with the crowd. He just seem like scum to me.

...I think Zekrom25 is scum, too, but seriously? How many lies are you going to tell this game?

HoS: TheFuzzylogic99

[StrangerCoug]

LOL... That's a good thing to call it.

[StrangerCoug]

I don't. Reread my post.

[StrangerCoug]

Because you are no longer contesting her for suicide bomber.

[StrangerCoug]

Most of the issues I have with TheTrollie involve roleclaims:

• Trying to get Titus lynched for her suicide bomber claim because she also claimed to be a bomb (if I read right), which reads as a mod-WIFOM game.
  
• TheTrollie had plenty of opportunity to kill Titus if he really were the suicide bomber and cited wasting the ability as the reason he didn't. Plausible reasoning from town, but then why claim?
  
• TheTrollie redacted his suicide bomber claim for a redirector claim. This raises two red flags:
  1. Even though two players claimed to have submitted redirector and thus both TheTrollie and I could be redirector in theory, in practice this leads to weird balance issues. Both of us have claimed to have redirected from the same person on Night 1. How is the mod supposed to handle that fairly?
     
  2. Cases where fakeclaiming let alone taking back a claim is pro-town are few and far between. No evidence exists for this being one of them.

[StrangerCoug]

This game is based on submissions, so there is a high swingyness level. Furthermore, i believe there have been at least one game with double busdrivers. And even if I can't find it, there have been games with double roleblockers. So don't take anything for granted. Like you said, scummy using mod-wifom, right?

It's true that just because I can't think of a way to balance two redirectors doesn't mean the mod couldn't. So point made here.

1. So why didn't you pursue jingle and what made him look better?

Bigger fish came up to fry, first with TheFuzzylogic99 and then with Hanzo_5 (if we disregard what I admitted was a bad Fu_Duzn push). Additionally, Jingle had not done anything I found too scummy since TSB's lynch.

2. Why target zekrom N2, instead of obv-scum trollie?

I didn't want to deprive Titus of the chance to use her ability if she didn't have another strong scum suspect, and zekrom25 had contributed little to the game.

1. How did you think your role worked?

I thought I could pick two players and change the first's target to the second.

2. Why ask the mod if you can redirect players to themselves?

I wanted to know if I could redirect the kill back to the person making it. Obviously, I can't do this directly.

3. Can you paraphrase what your PM says?

I can pick two players each night. Any attempt to target the first will instead target the second.

[StrangerCoug]

BBmolla, not you, would have to be the one jailkept in order for your action to fail if we are both redirectors. My action didn't work on Night 1, either, and BBmolla died that night. So no.

[StrangerCoug]

Sorry I have been active lurking here......but can't we just hammer Trollie?

I don't even know if he is at l-1 but I will gladly do the honors. Him or fuzzy, one of them needs to go.

I believe TheTrollie is at L-1. Hammer away.

[StrangerCoug]

You know that two people submitted a redirector, TheFuzzylogic99.

I redirected from Titus to Zekrom25 last night.

It's MYLO, so I will VOTE: No Lynch.

[StrangerCoug]

@ SC. Titus and Venmar
How does a NV help the town?
How does ending the day so quickly pro town?

MYLO stands for "

m

isl

y

nch and

lo

se". If we lynch town today, then scum wins so long as they make a successful kill. If we lynch nobody today, on the other hand, we are guaranteed another day to find scum.

[StrangerCoug]

I want to understand so
* your role is 100 percent successful unless blocked .
* You have failed on N1, N2 and N3

My role is confirmed to have failed on Night 1 only. Strictly speaking, there is no way for me to tell whether or not my N2 and N3 actions actually had any effect, as my N3 action is a repeat of my N2 action and both Titus and Zekrom25 are alive. (I can, however, tell you that neither redirection from Titus to Zekrom had the effect I wanted, which was for the latter to die.)

[StrangerCoug]

I thought that Titus was the biggest scum threat as she can take a day action.

[StrangerCoug]

SC
please explain why having a day action makes a player more dangerous to scum than someone who has a night action.....

The only option scum usually has to deal with players with day actions is to kill them. The standard roleblocker (and jailkeeper) addresses night actions only. By redirecting from Titus I act as her doctor.

[StrangerCoug]

SC
If Titus is the SB why protect him since he would take out scum if he was night targeted?

Read my latest post again. The answer to this is there.

Why did you not target me so I could get some reads

Are you asking why I didn't redirect to you or from you?

[StrangerCoug]

Not so fast, FuDuzn. I redirected Titus to Fuzzy this time, so it's not conclusive that Titus wasn't a scum target. If Titus and Zek are confirmed scum, I have to be, too.

[StrangerCoug]

I think I have most of this down, too, if only by PoE.

TheFuzzylogic99 is a bit of a weird scum kill to me, so I think my action worked, which would clear Titus. I'm also taking your #958 as a townslip for assuming that Fuzzy was NK'd directly, since as town you would not have had any clue that the scum kill was possibly manipulated. The hard part for me is Venmar/Jingle, and I have less reason to suspect Venmar than Jingle.

[StrangerCoug]

I feel like I'm missing something, but I'm willing to wait to see Fu's explanation. SC, why did you not redirect away from Fuzzy on either day?

I didn't buy his claim. Not much else to it.

[StrangerCoug]

I ask the same question to you that you've been asking.

[StrangerCoug]

I'm trying to regain my train of thought here, but I still like Titus for town. I have the sneaking suspicion that the FuDuzn having to be replaced means something, but I'm not sure if that's the most useful path to be going right now.

Zekrom and Discode are still scum in my eyes.

[StrangerCoug]

Is your scumread on the slot still valid?

[StrangerCoug]

OK then. My reads are still much the same anyway.

[StrangerCoug]

@SC - Where do you stand with the FuDuzn/Havingfitz slot?

Either the slot is town or FuDuzn was bluffing me. His opening post today made the assumption that there was no other redirector (yet hesitated a bit to call me scum), and scum killing TheFuzzylogic99 is too weird for me to deny my power playing a role in that right now.

Also, can you open my eyes to your Discode read? It's an intriguing point of interest for me because in #647 you called him town, and have had a lot of interaction with him, but you haven't really hinted your read changed until you spontaneously did so in #1005

I really think DisCode's been here long enough to know better than to vote anyone in MYLO. That's the primary reason I suspect him at this point. I thought I had said something along the lines of suspecting him (though I know this is the first time I've said anything about his vote yesterday)—apologies for the confusion if I didn't.

[StrangerCoug]

No.

[StrangerCoug]

Open question to everyone because I think this might be helpful later: Do you think TheFuzzylogic99 was killed directly? Why?

[StrangerCoug]

I ate it xD

[StrangerCoug]

havingfitz, I remember one of the posts being eaten saying that we are saving Venmar for last if he is scum. If he really is your lover,

BOTH

of you have to be scum for town not to be screwed by his lynch. That's too great a risk. Unvote him.

[StrangerCoug]

I have two questions, DisCode:

1. How do you deduce that Zekrom25 had to have been the Night 1 jailkeep target if I'm telling the truth?
   
2. Is there any provision in your role PM for missed actions?

[StrangerCoug]

N3. I've targeted titus, you redirected to zekrom. Unless there's a scum roleblocker, zekrom was jailkept if you're telling the truth.
I was informed by the mod that tgat gut whom I forgot the name off hadn't targeted anyone N1.

what do you think about the claimed blocks of N1?

I obviously know whether I'm telling the truth or lying about my target and TheTrollie flipped town, so this is a difficult question for me to answer without using WIFOM. As it stands, I believe you are the jailkeeper, but I have my doubts that your predecessor didn't send in anything. I believe that Pachino kept at least one of TheTrollie and me from using our actions.

If he really is your lover, BOTH of you have to be scum for town not to be screwed by his lynch.

Well I am not scum so what does it matter whether town is screwed now or later?

Do you realize how fatalistic your question is, havingfitz?

If we lynch Venmar today and he's scum lying about being anyone's lover, we're fine for the moment. However, we

MUST

hope for this if his lynch goes through today. (He theoretically

COULD

be lovers with a scumbuddy, but that requires him to be unbelievably suicidal. So I'm discounting that as absurd absent evidence to the contrary.) If we lynch him and he's scum lover to a townie, that townie dies with him, costing us the game in the process. If we lynch him and he's town, neither whose lover he is nor if he has a lover in the first place continues to be relevant, as we lose either way. We have to wait until there is one scum left to even

THINK

about voting him.

[StrangerCoug]

VOTE: DisCode

I'm ready to roll. This makes the most sense.

I believe SC claimed to have sent in the bomb portion of Titus's suicide bomber.

That is correct.

[StrangerCoug]

Good luck convincing everyone your brain is functioning properly, havingfitz. I'm not fazed by your post.

[StrangerCoug]

Even though I buy the jailkeeper claim, I believe DisCode is lying about Pachino not sending in an action. His case on me is based on the fact that, if I am town, there have to be

THREE

people who can roleblock and DisCode's jailkeep has to have landed on Zekrom25. He knows as well as I do that this is a stretch. The simpler explanation for everything, I think, is that Pachino targeted either TheTrollie or me on Night 1.

I don't care to answer DisCode's latest question to me, so it's on record. It's more WIFOM that he's trying to make me deal with.

[StrangerCoug]

Well. I had my reads almost all backwards. Still think Titus played well either way.

[StrangerCoug]

*reads #60 in scum QT*

Goddamn you, Hanzo_5...

[StrangerCoug]

You're welcome.

[StrangerCoug]

@SC
why the hate ?

Oh, it was part of the game. I don't

REALLY

hate you.

[StrangerCoug]

Also again I apologize for outing you SC but if you look back I was wondering why you wanted people to stop crumbing and then you did a 180 and crumbed yourself. I would not have outed it if those two things did not line up.

I

DID

crumb my submission, though I still want to know what led you to think that I crumbed being a power role.