1542: Book of Shadows Vol. 1 ~ Game Over

[scienceshrimp]

hi

[scienceshrimp]

Have you been reading the game Mantis?

ya

NS speak to Mantis she knows town Smudger.

actually i was thinking that this was a different game then 1513 for you
i'm just heading to work, but will post my thoughts afterwards

[scienceshrimp]

Reading up officially tomorrow, but I'd like to talk about the actions we've seen thus far.

I think that the N0 was for a poison shot on imperium, because nachotammy and always good to wipe out.

N1 was wis shot because he was obvtown (these two shots suck because I was confident in my read on them).

N2 was weird. Part of me thinks scum have an alternating killstyle- ie, even days are poison days odd are actual kill days.

N3 was interesting, and feeds into my theory about the way scum's kills work. Would you have shot d3x with people scumreading him for pushing a mislynch? I wouldn't have.

Titus I thought we had an agreement to always scumread each other ;(

jk you feel town this game

[scienceshrimp]

lol


lol

[scienceshrimp]

pirate mollie

:

Imperium

,

Wisdom

, Messiah Complex, Nero Cain, Titus,

D3x

,

Kthxbye

[7]

just looking at this. i think nero is town, scum would have probably been on it. so titus or MC


i stll lean smudger scum.

[scienceshrimp]

You guys aren't talking about lynching PH and that is wrong.

i have to ISO his posts again to remember why i had him as town

[scienceshrimp]

Titus explain why my defence looks scummy? These are two people i have had a huge issue with in the game, Hanzo and NC. Now I have changed my opinion on them both. Right now I would look to work with them both. So please explain exactly why it is scummy? Point out what possible motive I would have to do what I have done, and not just from a scum perspective but town also.

for example, at this point you realized that you changed your mind and want to work with the 2 ppl you had most issue with. but you don't put forth anything like... "since ive changed my opinion, i'm going to be looking at so and so instead"

smudg - you do seem different from 1513. you seemed more relaxed that game, 'cept of course towards the end with the lord mhork stuff :p

[scienceshrimp]

NC I am not going to waste my time arguing this with you as you are town and so am I. Your case is your case. If you think Hanzo is scum then convince everyone else and lynch him, I will not be joining that wagon at this time.

This doesn't say why you think Hanzo is town. It basically says, I am fine with a mislynch and I want to run from this wagon. Town defends their townreads. Of course, that gives me an iota of pause that Hanzo may be town, but this looks more like distancing. Oh great, and now I am speculating preflip.

Also, your response is scummy as fuck. Please put my town motivation here for me. Screw this...


VOTE: Smudger

mm hm

[scienceshrimp]

Nero, d3x, and

Smudger are town

. Leaves two in {Hanzo, Prohawk, Titus, Serra, NS}. And those are in our preferred lynch order.

- Des

how?
i just looked at your ISO, and you haven't said much about him. asked him a few questions

[scienceshrimp]

@Mantis/NS, I would love if you two clarified your thoughts. Mantis read scum to me prior to the replace out while NS reads town. One of you I MUST have read wrong. Given the fact you both are together, having you post thoughts would help me a lot in clarifying your slot.

ok. i'm clarifying them now just catching up on the last several pages. i'll talk to ns... i feel kind of good about smudg & MC being a scum team, right now.

also... hanzo...

[scienceshrimp]

vote:scienceshrimp

don't do it NC

[scienceshrimp]

VOTE: smudger

[scienceshrimp]

NS speak to Mantis she knows town Smudger.

actually i was thinking that this was a different game then 1513 for you

i also didnt like that you ignored this. because normally, well in the other game, you'd be calling me overly paranoid

[scienceshrimp]

Shrimp is town, especially if that was Mantis head as NS head has already been townie.

it was mantis head. titus, smudger is scum

-mantis

[scienceshrimp]

Lol, the shrimps are scum.

this is not your town play!

[scienceshrimp]

lol, L-2

I'm not going to waste my time rereading the game if you're all going to be this fucking stupid

Hey, Prohawk, if you're willing to unvote for a bit and chat with me about smudger you might realize the mislynch you're helping him push, but whatever. Let me know, I'll be waiting

[scienceshrimp]

pirate mollie

:

Imperium

,

Wisdom

, Messiah Complex, Nero Cain, Titus,

D3x

,

Kthxbye

[7]

just looking at this. i think nero is town, scum would have probably been on it. so titus or MC


i stll lean smudger scum.

Why would scum bus with a slew of people refusing to vote Mollie? Even if we are looking at a bus, a bus would occur at the end of the day when the lynch was obvious. I think we had a full town lynch on Mollie.

Totally agree on NC town though.

what are your thoughts on MC?

[scienceshrimp]

because otherwise, i guess there's only smudger and prohawk and serra left in the game, as possible scum to you
if you think that it was an all town bandwagon

[scienceshrimp]

lol, L-2

I'm not going to waste my time rereading the game if you're all going to be this fucking stupid

Hey, Prohawk, if you're willing to unvote for a bit and chat with me about smudger you might realize the mislynch you're helping him push, but whatever. Let me know, I'll be waiting

instead of blanking what I am saying why not discuss it with me?

Titus if I said go boil your head in horses piss would you get upset. you are being a fool or you are scum, which is it?

that was ns
i was actually just looking at your ISO in 1513 to compare a bit. you said something about your scum game there

boil your head in horse piss lol. that's an expression i've never heard lol

[scienceshrimp]

and MC, my target for last night, who still lives because I got blocked, properly by you

did you claim in this game? i missed that

[scienceshrimp]

nvm

[scienceshrimp]

and MC, my target for last night, who still lives because I got blocked, properly by you

so you tried to vig kill him? i just looked through your ISO here, i don't think you've said anything about him looking scummy to you.

[scienceshrimp]

sorry been drinking goon stop posting... just read back what I typed, not good, sorry

lol

[scienceshrimp]

sorry been drinking

goon

stop posting... just read back what I typed, not good, sorry

Drunken scum slip. Smudger's a goon with a Prue fakeclaim.

well the fact that he said there was a block on MC, makes me think he knows there's a blocker. ie scum blocker

[scienceshrimp]

sorry, meant block on 'him'

[scienceshrimp]

why didn't you push on him at all then?

[scienceshrimp]

Why should I push on him? I had a better weapon, one I alluded to when I was talking about Hanzo. Do you recall my statement about if Hanzo was lying I would sort it out? I meant my Vig kill.

because if you got the general feeling that he was scum during the game, you think that you would. in order to try and get reactions from him and whatnot, to further confirm that the vig shot would be used appropriately

[scienceshrimp]

Equine golden shower head boiling comment, numpty.

string of words you don't see every day

[scienceshrimp]

pirate mollie

:

Imperium

,

Wisdom

, Messiah Complex, Nero Cain, Titus,

D3x

,

Kthxbye

[7]

just looking at this. i think nero is town, scum would have probably been on it. so titus or MC

How does that make me town?

your posts make you town

[scienceshrimp]

Hey, Prohawk, if you're willing to unvote for a bit and chat with me about smudger you might realize the mislynch you're helping him push, but whatever. Let me know, I'll be waiting

Why do I have to unvote to chat? What is your case on Smudger?

for me, he seems different in this game, compared to the one game i just played with him.
though, i'm sort of looking at his posts now and debating on it. he seems to be coming off a bit natural and maybe he really thinks titus is scum, idk. but things like his supposed vig kill on messiah look strange because he didn't say a thing about them beforehand. i mean, if you think someone is scum, why wouldn't you push on them? look at his ISO, he didnt mention MC. so i still lean scum with him

-mantis

[scienceshrimp]

also, he has given no case on us. just "lol shrimp is scum"

[scienceshrimp]

@mantis, what about NC's post make him seem town?

gut feel
you think he is town as well, why is that?

[scienceshrimp]

Hey, Prohawk, if you're willing to unvote for a bit and chat with me about smudger you might realize the mislynch you're helping him push, but whatever. Let me know, I'll be waiting

Why do I have to unvote to chat? What is your case on Smudger?

Show of faith. Basically so I know I'm not just talking to a wall and you're willing to talk about what's the issue I've seen with Smudger since I've replaced in.

Gut town can easily be faked, but he's been doing better with reasoning elsewhere.

I've never played with Mantis scum, our one game together I thought she was super scummy. I think IIOA is a pretty good newb scumtell, and I don't really remember her waving off my vote in Pikmen. + scum do town read their attackers sometimes.

That post you complained was IIoA was NS who has yet to read the game and is basing it off of flips. Try again later.

[scienceshrimp]

Gut town can easily be faked, but he's been doing better with reasoning elsewhere.

I've never played with Mantis scum, our one game together I thought she was super scummy. I think IIOA is a pretty good newb scumtell, and I don't really remember her waving off my vote in Pikmen. + scum do town read their attackers sometimes.

That post you complained was IIoA was NS who has yet to read the game and is basing it off of flips.

There was no COMPLAINING that post WAS IIOA.

Except there WAS and NO SHIT I haven't read up.

But you're intentionally trying to construe it as a mantis post indicating newbscum. I'll figure out if you're doing it as town or scum later, I remember thinking in FEA I'd have an issue reading you as town.

[scienceshrimp]

..............................................................................................................................

I don't think

Nero: Holy shit that IIOA looks scummy and I think IIOA is a good newb scumtell.
Mantis: You complained about NS' post being IIOA
Nero: I didn't complain about it, I was pointing it out.
NS: Stop trying to construe that as a Mantis post!

is me trying to construe that as a Mantis post at all. The fuck is wrong with you?

Except you've been talking to NS this whole time

You insinuated mantis posted it so it was a newb-scum tell. But it was me. Not scum, not a newb. Nice try.

[scienceshrimp]

UNVOTE: smudger for now
i have to talk to ns.. but i kind of liked desp's post 1544. ns, what do you think of it?

nero is still very much town, and i've never really had a problem with serra either.

[scienceshrimp]

@ EVERYONE

Whoops! Forgot about starting in the night...

IS THIS REAL OR FAKE?

can't tell

[scienceshrimp]

^ the fact that he said this after

Whoops! Forgot about starting in the night... but you thinking I am scum for that is actually dense. Unless you think I mentioned it intentionally.

makes it seem kinda real

[scienceshrimp]

i have to talk to ns.. but i kind of liked desp's post 1544. ns, what do you think of it?

What part of the post did you like?

I will get to your case MC after I get a response from Mantis.

it seemed like a genuine take on things. i mean, if he was scum, he could have pushed on smudger. unless he's scum with him, of course. but i don't really think so now. cause he also had no reason to say the OOG thing, or whatever that was, with myself and subbing back in (i don't know what oog means, but get the idea). he could have refrained from that and tried to push us, alongside with smudger and possibly nero. iow, it didn't look like he had an agenda of any sort but just saying what he thought.

that and i'm on the fence with titus now. i know before i was scumreading her, but then it sort of dissipated-- possibly because she was scum reading smudge the same time i was.. so felt she was on the same page. but now, i'm not so sure smudge is scum.

[scienceshrimp]

maybe smudger is just confused

[scienceshrimp]

prohawk, why do you ask which part of the post i like? were you concerned that i liked his take on you being scum? :p

what is your take on MC?

[scienceshrimp]

smudge, don't get worked up -- your claim was bound to make people question it and drill you on it.

[scienceshrimp]

if smudger is town, i can see scum titus sticking with the fact that she doesn't believe it and trying to get him lynched for it.

[scienceshrimp]

nero, i actually think smudger is town now. he's all worked up, and it does come across as genuine. i've seen it before
smudger - you should drop your tunneling on us, and try to work with us, please.

[scienceshrimp]

i think for me, the fact that titus is not wavering at all on her scum read of smudger.... is one telling scum sign.
town will at least waiver a little bit. but titus, you have not done so. if you are scum, you are stuck. you have to keep up appearances and push on him.
probably because it seems like a good mislynch, that scum doesn't want to let go of

[scienceshrimp]

also serra is town, repeating myself, but he is.

[scienceshrimp]

VOTE: titus

[scienceshrimp]

Mantis how do you expect me to agree to work with someone I still believe is scum. ?

ah well

UNVOTE: titus
VOTE: prohawk

[scienceshrimp]

haha

it seems like a weak case. you were talking about that well before - about how my mollie defense might be bad and how me putting you as town might be bad.
and only now you decide to vote on it? there's nothing new here

[scienceshrimp]

Titus is town js

[scienceshrimp]

And prohawk that's the shittiest looking case I've seen from you

Your case was like 20x better in Cash Cabd and FEA

[scienceshrimp]

Reading up officially tomorrow, but I'd like to talk about the actions we've seen thus far.

I think that the N0 was for a poison shot on imperium, because nachotammy and always good to wipe out.

N1 was wis shot because he was obvtown (these two shots suck because I was confident in my read on them).

N2 was weird. Part of me thinks scum have an alternating killstyle- ie, even days are poison days odd are actual kill days.

N3 was interesting, and feeds into my theory about the way scum's kills work. Would you have shot d3x with people scumreading him for pushing a mislynch? I wouldn't have.

Titus I thought we had an agreement to always scumread each other ;(

jk you feel town this game

It's Even night poison odd night kill but you guys clearly don't care

[scienceshrimp]

Reading up officially tomorrow, but I'd like to talk about the actions we've seen thus far.

I think that the N0 was for a poison shot on imperium, because nachotammy and always good to wipe out.

N1 was wis shot because he was obvtown (these two shots suck because I was confident in my read on them).

N2 was weird. Part of me thinks scum have an alternating killstyle- ie, even days are poison days odd are actual kill days.

N3 was interesting, and feeds into my theory about the way scum's kills work. Would you have shot d3x with people scumreading him for pushing a mislynch? I wouldn't have.

Titus I thought we had an agreement to always scumread each other ;(

jk you feel town this game

It's Even night poison odd night kill but you guys clearly don't care

What gives you that impression?

Which, the kill thing or the not caring?

Not caring because I said it pages ago and everyone ignored it except Nero who called it IIoA

The kills because we started at N0 with no deaths. Then on N1, NachoTammy and Wisdom died. Nachotammy is EXACTLY who I'd poison as scum to remove them early

Odds are they protected wis from poison but he died from a regular kill.

N2 there's no deaths. N3 there's one- a poison after effect imo given nachotammy's flip

[scienceshrimp]

Not mad, just speculating how your case in this game is total and utter bullshit versus the cases I've seen you do that are so bloody transparent

[scienceshrimp]

Yo d3x which wagon between the two leading do you like better

Vote/unvote bit again

[scienceshrimp]

Yo, nero.

It's singleball. We barely have enough deaths for nights.

[scienceshrimp]

Yep

Every case I've seen you do I can say without a doubt came from town

This one nope.

[scienceshrimp]

Yo, nero.

It's singleball. We barely have enough deaths for nights.

p sure I've seen mafia + sk in a mini before.

Your theory is missing a few kills.

And unless your theory is alternating night kills, it's not right.

[scienceshrimp]

A LETTER TO MASTIN

Dear mastin,

You've replaced into an obvtown slot! Congratulations!

now give me something to sheep or eat rope

Love ns

[scienceshrimp]

Mollie died N1

There are two types of kill, a poison and a direct (we're not sure if it's a SK or just alternating maf kills)

Prohawk gave some bs case why we're scum

Smudger felt scummy but something about a claim yada yada

I didn't post D2 because they ended it in 24 hours

[scienceshrimp]

Ugh I meant D1 sorz

Nope you got it

[scienceshrimp]

Did a quick skim of the later part of Wisdom's iso, and saw some Prohawk suspicion. I'm wondering what people think of a serra/Hawk team.

ya i was thinking that

-mantis

[scienceshrimp]

Did a quick skim of the later part of Wisdom's iso, and saw some Prohawk suspicion. I'm wondering what people think of a serra/Hawk team.

ya i was thinking that

-mantis

ya but ur scum

where did this come from? you haven't said anything about us being scum before

[scienceshrimp]

prohawk, you are such scum

mastin. work with us please.

ns was certain that titus was town. and i'm certain that nero is town.

i do think that desp seems townish too... his one post of his that i mentioned before.

that leaves serra and ph

[scienceshrimp]

thing is prohawk, i KNOW you are scum
you are not even humming or hawing about whether we could be scum or not. as you would if you were town.
your motive is to just push blindly
and with a crappy case, at that.

there was no clear and genuine build up to you thinking that we were. it just came out of nowhere. and it was fake.
i think it was fake because it was if you just decided that "hey, this is the way to push, so im gonna do it"
and that's exactly how it came across

[scienceshrimp]

refute your case? you mean the really crappy shitty case that you presented? about how ns not posting in day 2, and both of us thinking mollie was town.. case??
so lame
see the thing is with you, is that you have not even presented any other scum reads.
you are totally focused on us. and we are town. so can you see how it looks to me???

it's so bad.
why have you not done any process of elimination and narrowed down the scum team from that?
you haven't even given town reads.
i figure you haven't given town reads, because you want to keep your options open on who to fos next.

what are your thoughts on serra?

[scienceshrimp]

Did a quick skim of the later part of Wisdom's iso, and saw some Prohawk suspicion. I'm wondering what people think of a serra/Hawk team.

Serra's town.

if serra's town, than who is scum, other than prohawk?

[scienceshrimp]

Prohawk re 1720, i dunno what to tell you, we're not scum.
started losing a bit of interest in the game tbh, so lynch away if you must
Starting to rethink my switched to townish read on smudger who is now squirrel girl
not to impressed with her posts

[scienceshrimp]

want to buy posts back

will pay in blood

[scienceshrimp]

hi ns
UNVOTE: prohawk

[scienceshrimp]

hi ns
UNVOTE: prohawk

Hi!

What do you think of mastin's gutreads

[scienceshrimp]

hi ns
UNVOTE: prohawk

Hi!

What do you think of mastin's gutreads

i've actually liked mastin since he entered the game. remember when he was lord mastin II, and they were scum. he's much different this game

mastin, i like your thinking of possible squirrel and serra team

nero is town, and i still liked a lot of desp's posts.

[scienceshrimp]

what do you think of them?

[scienceshrimp]

probably going to vote serra as well

[scienceshrimp]

serra, you are online. what say you?

[scienceshrimp]

hi ns
UNVOTE: prohawk

Hi!

What do you think of mastin's gutreads

If this weren't for show, it would go in the hydra qt.

there is no hydra qt, just random pm's. i think we're both just lazy

[scienceshrimp]

<- is not scum

also, holy shit does your in-thread hydra interaction look fake.

Squirrel and I both intended to vote PH as he seemed the only achievable lynch, since everyone was (is) being lame. Mastin reading us as a scumteam for that indicates that he's either not trying or scum.

From memory, what do you like about desp's posts?

i linked the one that made me switch my mind on him, before.
being self-biased i guess.. he made a point that i probably wouldn't follow along with the game, and sub back in as i hydra, just after seeing mollie (scum) lynched. and he's right.
at that time, if he were scum - he could have not said that and just put added pressure on us, along with others

[scienceshrimp]

Screw this. ProHawk is town. Serra/Squirrel are scum.
VOTE: serrapaladin.

how about squirrel first?

[scienceshrimp]

cause im on the fence with serra

[scienceshrimp]

cause im on the fence with serra

If you think opportunism is scummy, why are you on the fence with Serra?

VOTE: Serra

because i wasn't sure if it was you or him as scum with squirrel. i def think she is scum... so ya, want to lynch her first
i hope i'm not wrong here.

[scienceshrimp]

mastin and MC are town to me.

[scienceshrimp]

how about squirrel first?

Sure thing! But serra actually has support now, from ProHawk. I'll switch to whichever wagon grows larger. We do need to consolidate on one of the two, but I find them about equally good lynches.

looks like it's serra. i guess he is more scummy than prohawk kinda. just judging from the games i have played with them. game with serra, he read me as town after some time, and vice versa for me to him. now, i'm not getting that certainty. otoh, prohawk is sneaky, and hard to trust... a good player. so that's why i'm not 100% with him
i guess it could be both of them. but, i don't really think so, considering that prohawk is going after him now. seems too risky, if they were both scum partners.
so ya, it's squirrel and serra/ph for me. leaning serra scum and ph town

[scienceshrimp]

Scum are MC and one of {mastin, shrimp, PH}.

why not squirrel girl?

[scienceshrimp]

prohawk then?
mastin has to be town for sure. he's different from the last game i played with him where he was hydraing with lord mhork

[scienceshrimp]

@shrimp: It's quite possible, yes.

I actually have a little bit of a problem with you/MC, given there was a time today when the two of you were the only ones pushing PH.

Do you think this is mastin's typical level of analysis? He's given fairly little justification for his reads besides gut, hasn't at all used setup-spec, nor looked at voting patterns. My biggest reason for suspecting that slot is the inconsistency with titus, but frankly, I'd expect a little more from mastin.

no i def think he is town. i was actually the one suspicious of titus before, cause i can't read her well. but ns was certain she was town. he can read her.
being that, combined with me seeing a major difference with mastin's game, compared to the last one i played with him where he was scum... i think he is for sure town.

[scienceshrimp]

i dunno i kind of think serra might be town.
can we please vote for squirrel? please trust me here

[scienceshrimp]

scum in MC, squirell, or PH.
kinda thinking i should re evaluate MC

[scienceshrimp]

VOTE: prohawk

[scienceshrimp]

well i think i already said a few times with mastin. and i did say what i liked with MC as well... but, i'm kinda reconsidering that now. reconsidering, cause serra is looking more townish

[scienceshrimp]

Dont you even blame me for a no-lynch when people are sitting on their hands. The only vote I haven't moved to is MC because they are least likely to be scum. Why aren't people willing to vote for Shrimp or Serra? Take a WILD guess.

ya, no

[scienceshrimp]

in fact that doesn't even make sense. if serra and i are the scum, how does wild guessing on others parts have anything to do with it?

[scienceshrimp]

well, i'll link you the game, hold on

[scienceshrimp]

what are your thoughts on prohawk, squirrel?

[scienceshrimp]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=32479

note, how mastin comes in and throws out town reads to nearly everyone
actually... same thing with this game:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=31092

he's not doing that here. and even when he is giving out town reads, it's different from those games... more genuine

[scienceshrimp]

ah well, there's a few links anyway

[scienceshrimp]

who do you find scummy then? sorry if you've already said and i've missed it

[scienceshrimp]

scum mastin does ya... from what i have seen.

i guess i could see MC being scum.
i don't find prohawk overly townish though, especially his last post. what do you find town with him?

[scienceshrimp]

oh ya, he did a weird switch on us before. (prohawk)
it kind of came out of nowhere.

[scienceshrimp]

it's like he decided to push on us, but the switch came across clunky. lemme see if i can find it

[scienceshrimp]

easy vote-
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p5673451
cause notscience hadn't posted that day, in the day that lasted only like 24 hours! actually, notscience hasn't posted for awhile in this hydra. (ns, do you hate me?)

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p5685171
"may have been off, need to do more analysis"? sounds like he's trying to place a vote nonchalantly

and this was his case.-
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p5696369

looks like he was trying to justify his somewhat, "shrimp may have been off" statement


that and big deal that we thought mollie was town for a bit. nacho did as well at first, and we've both played with her a ton

[scienceshrimp]

what is your case on MS and mastin?

[scienceshrimp]

No I don't hate you Mantis

I hate everyone else in this game

As before, titus-slot is town, I can kinda see smudgerslot town now.

I want to lynch MC or Prohawk, mainly the latter.

[scienceshrimp]

No I don't hate you Mantis

I hate everyone else in this game

As before, titus-slot is town, I can kinda see smudgerslot town now.

I want to lynch MC or Prohawk, mainly the latter.

i'm on the same page as you. last page squirrel looks town to me

[scienceshrimp]

@shrimp - I have presented my Mastin case to you already. As long as you're looking to talk about it some more I'm still looking for your feedback about the meta thing. My case on Messiah Complex is basically that he's pushing the ProHawk case on the fake sounding forgot we started at night thing. I would think that 1200+ posts and however many days in that this is hardly a shocker that during game start he knew about it and then later it slipped his mind. To then suggest it's a scumtell seems really awkward and feels more fake than anything ProHawk has said.

that's fair, what you said about MC. kinda forgot that he was pushing prohawk for that. they could still be scum buddies, i think.

what more should we talk about about mastin meta? i have played maybe 3 games with him i think. but ya, i just find his posts come off genuine. that's the basis of it.. supported by the fact that he's doing different stuff from what i have seen of his scum game

[scienceshrimp]

that's fair, what you said about MC. kinda forgot that he was pushing prohawk for that. they could still be scum buddies, i think.

I would find that an unlikely pairing, personally.

what more should we talk about about mastin meta? i have played maybe 3 games with him i think. but ya, i just find his posts come off genuine. that's the basis of it.. supported by the fact that he's doing different stuff from what i have seen of his scum game

I was hoping you would address my meta call on his posting length, and also my meta call about how there's little basis for your meta read on him. Heck, you could even toss in a few nuts with him saying my meta call on him also has little basis and we could make it a three/fourway just for funsies.

lol

well, when i was on earlier today i missed/haven't yet read your post with the links on him.
i'll read it now thoroughly

[scienceshrimp]

scum mastin does ya... from what i have seen.

i guess i could see MC being scum.
i don't find prohawk overly townish though, especially his last post. what do you find town with him?

Here is Mastin replacing into a scum slot. Guarded with his reads across the board (but, you'll note, avoiding substantive walls;
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=36665

Here's a town mastin. Slow start, intial reads though are based around town reads. Big walls;
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... start=3250

Another town game. Opens early and fast with a lot of reads including a lot of town reads, lots of big walls;
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=32587

I feel like my meta views seem to hold more support than yours. What do you think about this?

so ya - it's a decent point.. kinda akin to what my town case on him was. cept on the flip side
but, really - notscience was certain that titus was town, and i believe he can read her really well. so i'm not really open to the idea of debating why he could be scum

[scienceshrimp]

ehh. well, did you think titus was scum?

[scienceshrimp]

it is both actually. i was reading titus as scum before, trust me. then ns was like, no she's town for sure. then mastin came in, and i'm reading his posts as town.
keep in mind, that last game i played with titus, i was going on about how she was scum... but actually, she was town. so i suck at reading her

[scienceshrimp]

gut i think
pretty much that's how i get all my town reads

[scienceshrimp]

Mastin I'm not really sure I see squirrel-girl scum given her roleclaim

I'd be willing to lynch prohawk.

@whoever asked about my titus read- I play with titus a lot and normall when she's scum she's serious and snarly and we scumread each other but we didn't scumread each other so I'm like hm must be a sign

[scienceshrimp]

Our secret third head Mr. Flay

If it's talking about a titus read....

@Squirrel, I could give you my townhunting spiel but don't care to. Mantis is leaning MC I'm pretty sure and I butted heads with Nero as scum (when I play scum I still butt heads with people but not as much as town) so I'm kinda just giving him space because I don't really want to try and get stuck in a pissing contest

[scienceshrimp]

Our secret third head Mr. Flay

If it's talking about a titus read....

@Squirrel, I could give you my townhunting spiel but don't care to. Mantis is leaning MC I'm pretty sure and I butted heads with Nero as scum (when I play scum I still butt heads with people but not as much as town) so I'm kinda just giving him space because I don't really want to try and get stuck in a pissing contest

right now, and i think you agree NS - mastin is town. pretty much the only one i want to actually try and work things out with, in the game.
nero is also town for me.

mastin-

Pro-Hawk is the scumbuddy. Their discussion today shows as much.

i know what you mean, cause that occurred to me too when i was reading their back n forth.
but if anything.. i think the falseness of the back and forth came from prohawk.
cause squirrel has seemed townish with her posts, before that

i'm thinking prohawk and MC

[scienceshrimp]

i feel very certain that mastin and nero are town

[scienceshrimp]

@Shrimp - if you town read me, and Mastin (and, consequently nero...frankly, whether you scum or townread me probably Nero is town), who do you see as ProHawk's buddy? Just MC? And why not mention willingness to lynch him too? And if you're doubting, then why not talk about that?

no i'm willing to vote MC. but i do think prohawk reeks of scum moreso

[scienceshrimp]

@Scienceshrimp - can you talk me through the Mastin thing with more than a gut read from a head who isn't posting based on a player who isn't here anymore?

i don't know what more you want me to say. his posts scream town to me. it's honestly just gut for me. i've picked him out as scum when he was in a hydra, one of the last games i played.
-mantis


do you not ever play where you have a gut read on someone? is this some sort of crazy unheard of thing for you?

[scienceshrimp]

k. well here's one thing. the fact that he stated that it looked like you and prohawk were scum chatting each other last page. that honestly occurred to me as well. it's a paranoid town thing

[scienceshrimp]

i said there was falseness from prohawk. something seemed off about the conversation for some reason.

[scienceshrimp]

can we please please lynch him today. this is getting ridiculous

[scienceshrimp]

see, and every time we've caught each other in real time posting, i very much get the sense you are town.

so for me-- that leaves only prohawk and MC.

[scienceshrimp]

i dunno, i don't think there's anything wrong with gut reads. it's the way they convey their words. as in, you can tell there's no pauses or overly thinking about what to say.
look at prohawk's ISO. i'll do the same right now.
tell me if you see him really trying to get a town bloc established. from recollection, i don't think so at all. he's even trying to question you now.
cause , in scum's eyes... they need to keep suspicious of everyone at this point.
they can't inhibit themselves to who they can potentially vote for... cause they need to be able to stay open to the possibility of using their vote against whoever.

[scienceshrimp]

i'd vote MC with you as well

[scienceshrimp]

lemme just quickly check the game that i played with prohawk, when he was town.
this is my 2nd game with him

[scienceshrimp]

k. well here's one thing. the fact that he stated that it looked like you and prohawk were scum chatting each other last page. that honestly occurred to me as well. it's a paranoid town thing

Sorry, I'm confusing your heads again. So this is the head that gut reads Mastin and the head that reads Titus may be able to explain its read better if it ever comes back. Well...I think we're back to a standoff then. It's not as much fun as a dance off, and involves me hating on your other head more. I'm actually starting to get a bad attitude about hydras in general.

no NS was posting several posts before now. we're both on the same page. he thought titus was town, and pretty sure that carried over to mastin equaling town. i also agree that the titus-mastin slot is town. just didn't think so before, because i cant read titus at all. but now that it's mastin, i'm in agreement. the slot is town.

hope this isn't confusing.


i\ll respond to the rest of this post in a sec

[scienceshrimp]

i'd vote MC with you as well

I really feel like it would hurt my head though. The Serra lynch was a wifom move on that front. With the way the wagons stalled I'll agree we probably had scum in our sights yesterday, but I don't feel like I have a good grasp on how that really played out considering the NK.

with the serra kill, i think it was a wifom kill. partially in order to frame us (might be overly self biased in that department). but ya.. i think it was in order to frame ppl.

[scienceshrimp]

Whichever head can read Titus - I'd like that expanded on.

it's notscience who can read her.
this is mantis speaking
but either way, mastin seems like he's semi raging at the fact that you're trying to use his meta against him. i don't blame him... and what he has said (to me) has come across like a town reaction to it. town reaction, because it looks like he's wondering about your motives. to be honest, i think your case on him was bad. and if it were me, being recipient to it, i'd probably react the same.
just like how prohawk is going after us incessantly. you can't see it from my perspective, cause you don't know for sure, whether we are town. but from my perspective, all i see from him is some shitty case and non stop votes on us, in the meantime.
at one point, notscience was saying to me, prohawk will see reason. but prohawk has failed to do that. he doesn't want to consider us as town, since he's already invested so many of his posts in the idea that we are scum. he can't go back on it now.

[scienceshrimp]

but either way, mastin seems like he's semi raging at the fact that you're trying to use his meta against him. i don't blame him... and what he has said (to me) has come across like a town reaction to it. town reaction, because it looks like he's wondering about your motives. to be honest, i think your case on him was bad. and if it were me, being recipient to it, i'd probably react the same.

I don't think I agree. I mean, if my case on her was bad, so was...whichever of your heads made the meta town case on her, and she felt no need to disabuse you of that notion apparently. Also, the logic doesn't make a lot of sense from her side. A former slot holder soft claimed something about me, and she has called my role into doubt, but has done so in a very roundabout way and with absolutely no analysis of the game or discussion of how my role is false besides just saying the scum probably got a JOAT. I mean, that is literally the extent of her presented reasoning as to why my claim is false. To follow up that thought, let's even say she's convinced my case is the derpiest derp to have ever derped. Okay, so I'm a dumb derp who dared to use meta on the un-meta-able Mastin and she is proof to it in all its forms. Okay...but how does that make me scummy exactly? A meta case is pretty normal, and you even used a meta case on her, so if that's scummy...you were scummy too. What this actually shows is, whether or not she thinks she can be meta read, clearly other people do think she can be meta read - that being you, I, and probably a lot of players here. So, at that stage, for my meta case to be scummy it either needs to lack evidence (which Mastin pointedly claims it doesn't) or she needs to show that I'm aware that her meta is unreadable/able to be shown to be anything.

She hasn't done that. She hasn't analyzed it at all. She just went full bore attack mode on me for unclear reasons paired with a null tell.

I don't think she's that bad of a player. I think she's emotional, sure, but I also think town Mastin would have reasoning. maybe even bad reasoning, but there would be reasoning. She hasn't tried to present reasoning, she hasn't presented a case for why I'm scum, she just walled, raged, and then fled. I read that as a pretty solid scum reaction. Can you talk me through your town read of it?

why are you referring to mastin as she, when beforehand you were referring to mastin as him/he?

[scienceshrimp]

I'd be willing to lynch prohawk.

So am I, but my Squirrel Girl scumread is much stronger.

why?
i disagree

[scienceshrimp]

mastin if it's me slipping I'm sorry I'm trying ;-;

I like to think I can read titus. We've played together a lot

Normally I scumread her due to conflicting opinions/moonlogic and when I read her stuff this game I wasn't getting that feeling, that like "man titus is scum"

I'll figure out what it is and get back to you on it but that's the general idea

[scienceshrimp]

I think that we're certain that ProHawk is scum, but only 75% sure Mastin is his buddy. Massclaim may or may not clear up that 25%.

- Des

that's how i feel as well. certain that prohawk is scum, and then a little iffy on who the next one might be.

squirrel- that's why when you say to vote either MC or Mastin, i'm unsure. also if you look at our ISO, i was mostly thinking MC is town, then had a bit of a waiver with them, which makes me lean to more unsure now. i know that ns can't read desp at all.

-mantis

[scienceshrimp]

VOTE: prohawk

[scienceshrimp]

Yeah, I believe the tracker claim.

[scienceshrimp]

Thought he said he tracked me to Serra.

if MC was scum, why would he say that he tracked you to squirrel and not serra?
doesn't make sense for MC, if he was scum tracker trying to get you mislynched, to even say you targeted squirrel

if say, he claimed before you did. then, it would have been him leaving you the opportunity to claim doc or something (cause you very well could have been, if MC is scum, he wouldn't know)... which obviously isn't a good scum move, since you coulda counteracted it. if he was scum, claiming that you targeted serra would have been much safer.

so instead of thinking that he's not smart scum, i'm thinking he's telling the truth 100%

[scienceshrimp]

where did he say he didn't think you were VT?

[scienceshrimp]

hi

we're a VT

I don't remember what the name of the guy is but he had black hair, I'll go check in a minute

Did I say I had a townread on squirrel for lolpr? If yes I know why

I don't think I did though

Prohawk attempting to drive a wedge between us/mastin is funny though

I also shot mantis a message the other day saying that prohawk's reaction to the tracker claim is bullshit. From his PoV (if he was town), MC is all but confirmed scum, yet he's not fighting and screaming at us to lynch MC.

[scienceshrimp]

It's boring

And You're sitting here arguing over other players when there is essentially confscum from your PoV, rather than trying to convince everyone to vote him as should be the focus of like everything you fucking post

[scienceshrimp]

hmm. starting to believe prohawk and not believe MC.

sorry NS, gonna do this for now, till we chat again
UNVOTE: prohawk

thinking MC's last 2 posts look especially bad. last post moreso

[scienceshrimp]

plus nero might have a point about MC being the odd claim out

[scienceshrimp]

MC & mastin ?

[scienceshrimp]

Look at you sucking up to Nero, Tell me Messiah, what kinda tricks do you think you have up your sleeve to win this thing? You are DEAD after I flip.

for example, this looks very much town^

[scienceshrimp]

because it looks like he doesn't have any fight in him. (on MC's part)
is that pic indicating that you agree?

[scienceshrimp]

prohawk looks like he's arguing from honesty...

[scienceshrimp]

ya, MC and mastin.

[scienceshrimp]

k. so let's vote MC, don't you think?
i'm more sure of him now (as scum)... now that prohawk seems town.

you agree with me that nero is town, right? i have had a few reservations on him... when he was v/la. but when he posts, i always think town.
so ya, let's do MC

[scienceshrimp]

-mantis

[scienceshrimp]

@ProHawk - how do you see Shrimp working with MC as a buddy, if at all?

nah he's just mistaken. it doesn't work
if we were scum with MC, we'd continue pushing prohawk

[scienceshrimp]

you agree with me that nero is town, right?

Am I the only one who remembers anymore that I'm claiming a cop investigate clear on him?
Because I am claiming that.

I don't want to rush vote MC right now. I'm...(sigh) still trying to talk o Nero, even if every time I admit or insist on it he thinks I'm calling him scum and starts random screaming at me. But...well, i still want to talk to him more and get a better feel for things.

Why would you like to do MC prior to, say, Mastin?

cause MC seems more scum. remember i was the one going all out before saying that mastin seemed town? but now, process of elimination says he is probably scum. i dunno if NS is going to agree.. cause he had a for sure town read on titus. so that still needs to be sorted... the titus/mastin slot.
and last time i talked with NS, we both agreed that prohawk seemed scum. but honestly, from his latest posts... he seems town to me. he's putting up a good fight, and actually, putting up a better fight than MS is. seems more real.
so ya, that combined with the fact that NS had a solid town read on titus/mastin... makes me put MC first in terms of wanting to lynch.

[scienceshrimp]

i have you and nero as town, for certain.

[scienceshrimp]

just messaged NS. i would like to vote for MC, though. going to wait before doing so

[scienceshrimp]

Look at you sucking up to Nero, Tell me Messiah, what kinda tricks do you think you have up your sleeve to win this thing? You are DEAD after I flip.

for example, this looks very much town^

Like hell it is. That's a scumclaim, not a town mindset.

There's a difference between saying something and linking to it. Read ProHawk's posts from here onward. That's him during D2. Then look at his posting on D3. THIS IS IMPORTANT. An important piece of the game is that orcinus softclaimed on D2 to have a role countering ProHawk. Orcinus was ProHawk's scumbuddy. They organized a bus. And this post is a dead-ringer for the post you're towntelling him for.
Look here and here for the setup from orc's end.

It's the same thing this game. ProHawk is scum. MC's probably scum, yes. But ProHawk? DEFINITELY is.

hmm.
ya but, how come you are not questioning or evaluating MC at all? from my pov (town) i'm a little torn cause, i was thinking along with NS that prohawk was scum. but his latest posts have me reconsidering. how can you be so sure?
makes me suspicious that you're pushing PH's lynch, as scum with MC.

also from my pov, squirrel and nero are town.
that only leaves - you, MC and prohawk. and by the way things are going... it seems more likely that both scum together, right now, are going to be pushing for a mislynch, in order to end the game.
they get a mislynch, and a night kill... and they're tied.
the 2 people who seem to be pushing together are you and MC.

why would scum bus now at this point? i mean, they could and all... drag out the game, hoping for town cred. but it's already been put on the table that a bus between MC and prohawk might be taking place. (which i doubt, personally). but it's not like scum can really count on a ton of town cred for bussing at this point, when the rest of town is not dumb enough to not see that that might be happening.
best move for scum is to go for the mislynch.. i think.
and it kinda seems like you 2 fit the bill for that (you and MC).

-mantis

[scienceshrimp]

VOTE: MC

In case it does count

[scienceshrimp]

i'd like to vote messiah complex

-mantis

[scienceshrimp]

i think he comes across as scummy in his interactions with prohawk.

[scienceshrimp]

maybe it's nero and MC.
i could see that, with nero's back and forth on prohawk. as in, he's trying to play the neutral scum.

[scienceshrimp]

ya, i think prohawk is def town.
so this lynch has to be MC

[scienceshrimp]

@ mantis: You still haven't explained why me having "less fight" than prohawk made our interactions scummy.

Vote: ProHawk

- Des

des, you are scum.. there's nothing to explain

[scienceshrimp]

mastin, i plan on voting MC. i wanted to state my intentions beforehand though. it's only 3 to lynch.
-mantis

>.>

also prohawk i think mastin wants you to make a case on why we're scum, so that she has an excuse to lay down suspicion in our direction

[scienceshrimp]

iow scum = mc & mastin

[scienceshrimp]

Because you? You really look like scum. Your posting today. Your posting yesterday. Your scumslip. Your interactions with MC. The meta I have on you. Everything points squarely at you being scum.

[scienceshrimp]

why isn't she questioning MC? if prohawk is scum, in her mind- who is scum with prohawk? mastin, why are you not working that out? if ph is scum, who is scum with him and why?
the fact that you haven't looked into that, points to you being scum.

[scienceshrimp]

VOTE: MC

[scienceshrimp]

Hi there

ns here

Here to bring you a reason I'm paranoid of Mastin

I have not been obvtown this game

I've been checked out most of it in fact (which is actually a scumtell of mine)

But I don't see a questioning of it.

[scienceshrimp]

What, you mad I can paint a better case for us-scum than you can?

I'm here now.

[scienceshrimp]

prohawk, as us/me anything. i have you as town. mastin has to be scum.

[scienceshrimp]

-mantis

[scienceshrimp]

*ask

[scienceshrimp]

i was actually getting paranoid before that it was MC and nero.
now that nero is dead and confirmed town, this makes its a lot easier.
no way prohawk is scum after MC's fake guilty on him.

so that's why ph, i'm telling you to ask me anything. i can build a case on mastin if ya want. i'd rather not, due to laziness.
but, after all the town mess ups, it'd be nice to still get a win.

[scienceshrimp]

i'm telling you to ask me anything.

Why aren't you voting?

i dunno. conversation would be good before placing down votes, i think.

but ya, i guess kind of useless since i really don't think MC would fake a guilty on you, while being scum. your reaction to him seemed much more genuine than how he was acting, and that was at the point where i changed my mind on you.

-mantis

[scienceshrimp]

prohawk, get your vote off!
yes, titus had played well, mastin as well with his posts... he's putting a lot of effort into them.
but they are scum. if you want them to win, fine whatever.. cause town has played really badly.
but take off your vote please.

really would suck to lose this

[scienceshrimp]

VOTE: mastin

^there

[scienceshrimp]

UNVOTE: mastin

mastin, right now - who would you be voting for?

[scienceshrimp]

without voting, can you answer the question

[scienceshrimp]

whatever. it says that i'm actually considering whether there's a possibility that *you* might be scum.
kind of want to chat with mastin a bit, just in case.
i'd be royally pissed if town lost, after all this.

[scienceshrimp]

actually nvm. mastin is scum
VOTE: mastin

[scienceshrimp]

crap.
UNVOTE: mastin

[scienceshrimp]

VOTE: prohawk

mastin, before you vote... ask questions.

[scienceshrimp]

prohawk is hanging around the thread more than both of us. i'm kinda considering that a scum tell, but i'm not entirely sure.