Mini 1555 Board Game UPick Mafia--Game Over!

[SpyreX]

I like the idea of the charter. At heart is that basic precept that seems to get lost so often: if town, play like town so scum have to actually play the game to win the game.

However, as a total shocker TM the concepts are lost in quibbling over legalese that shadows doing stuff.

You might as well park your vote on ffery and I then. Because we're not going to stop scumhunting in the manner that works for us just because you think it's not the best method.

What do you actually think about what he's saying as the concept?

The charter lynch order is disagreeable.
Its contents, dull. I refuse to sign it in full.

Vote: morph the cat
No vote better than that.

Which is the disagreeable part? Cause I'll put hard money on a group of town that systematically purges scum and lurkers until only they remain AT THAT POINT wins waaaay more often then not. Or, at the least, gets beat by actual maneuvering and not herpaderpa wooo .

BUT those are both actually doin stuff

VOTE: porkens

politics are bad

Scum Hiplop to Queens Noose 1

Unvote, Vote: Hiplop

[SpyreX]

Let it shake out. Don't strangle the soup.

Sup Kdub. You sunk my battleship!

[SpyreX]

Since I've come back to the game, I haven't seen towns that work together. Granted, it's just been a few games, but the things that consistently rule the games (especially the early game) are personality, reputations, and meta. Every post is a one-up, every argument degenerates into personal insults. It A) makes the game not fun, and B) benefits only the scum. Every player is too concerned with being right and showing off their big scum-hunting dick. Lurkers and no-content posters are allowed to linger to lylo because "that's how they play." I believe if we treat this game like a business, and make the first priority to work together, two things will happen. 1) the chaff will get lynched and the game will get better. 2) the scum will be forced to play in a pro-town manner. That means more bussing, more lynching of scum. These two changes will lead to more town victories.

I love this a million times.

Something like a "charter" is a very twisted sword - the actual speaking of it makes it almost impossible to do, but the discussion of it makes the end result happen anyways. Three pages in and I'm happier about how this is going then many games I've been in a while.

Because, at heart, its not about the agreement or disagreement, its about the process behind it. Which is why even at this point I can do something like this and the fact its happening now makes my heart aflutter.

Town as hell tm:

Quil - This is looking at an idea, not making a snap judgement, weighing the bad versus the good and cutting to some really important parts of it right out of the gate. Especially explaining with words why things are done and the fact at the end of the day round one is "people playing like town" versus "people playing like scum" versus "town" and "scum".
Hadrian - ohh hey look open dissent in such a way

that points to exactly what its trying to accomplish.

SO GUESS WHAT YOU ARE IN WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT BUDDY.
Porkens - duh

Town:

morph - I like most of what I see. However, versus the others this could be faked some depending on how things shake out but thats a tiny bit of paranoia.
kdub - Its the agreeing with most every word thats said. Mirror-ego syndrome paranoia keeps from the above.

Probably Town but makes me paranoid as shit:

Awesomeusername - I keep looking at post 55 and I can't put my finger on exactly what it is that makes me want to sneak up behind him with a garrote but there's something there. Something...sinister. But I am old and, as said, paranoid.

Probably Scum:

HighShroomish - I'm not taking the time to go through and look deeply at his games, but the whole idea of "scum totally play like town you guys" is so foreign to the wasteland I live in and this is just the right kind of alarm bells I'm not stoked. I only say probably because

Actually needs to be turned into fertilizer because jesus:

1baldeagle1 - I dont even know where to begin. If I were to measure the desire to kill versus the amount of words in that post somehow the desire to kill is actually HIGHER then the number of words. Thats a feat in and of itself. The fact "lurksack-town meta" was already brought up is a giant warning red klaxon that this shit needs to meet its friend the dodo right fast.
hiplop - This will be referred to from now until forever as the "inverse Quil". On top of not actually being useful when being a real vote, its a snap dismissal under the guise of it being actually bad.

Now, in that perfect world I dream of when I go to sleep?

Those 6 names in the top would shake the shit out of every name not mentioned while manically murdering the hell out of the bottom of that list. If, in those three names, there isn't a scum I'd be surprised.

[SpyreX]

And in P-Edit Land:

I mean, the charter seems like a noble idea in principle, but I just don't think adopting it is going to result in much different outcomes than without it.

It basically amounts to an elaborate way of policy lynching useless/lurking players.

See. You're right. However, I will put my hand on a stack of bibles and say this to the heavens themselves:

Thats not a bad thing. Its god damn natural.

What seems to happen (and seems to happen more lately) is somehow that gets swept away under the slapfights until you look at midgame and just say shit because you realize you're now on lord of the flies island.

Its the inverse of a tried and true scum-maneuver: kill the brain. Not necessarily the towniest tm or suspected prs. Kill the ones that are progressing the game forward. You hit them, and soon the dominoes fall and you just watch the world burn.

[SpyreX]

I'd actually like to see it. Because, in my heart of hearts, either he's been lucky or that's total bullshit. (I looked but didn't see? a finished game)

[SpyreX]

Part of my concern about the charter idea is knowing that it would give scum-me something town-looking to do for a huge chunk of day 1 and that discussing tweaks, and whether or when to abort the idea would do the same for smaller chunks of future days.

I'm a player who is not comfortable with scum roles. I'm probably the kind of scum player that porkens hopes to flush out with this idea, but I think it would do the opposite with me.

Needless to say I'm lord of the townbloc TM so this is a little jaded but lets play hypothetical in the above.

Lets assume this is a normal setup 10/3 style. Lets assume that list of names I gave as town is what starts the holy crusade.

You're scum. You're in the townbloc yay! Now you spend d1 carefully tweaking and talking about the charter. Meanwhile, your bro's are not in the bloc and up for murder. So now, you're already looking at the squeeze because you know while short term you're safe long term you've got to plan for "when there's 6 of us left how the hell do I convince them I'm the towniest town in the bloc".

Lets say there's two scum there and its an even more wonderful world. Night comes and you've got your NK. Now, on top of everything else - do you weaken the bloc? Well..maybe? How do you direct them away from your third bro in such a way that doesn't paint a big ass target on one or, god forbid, both of you? Do you kill outside of it? Now, even if they were wrong about both of you (because you played so town) - you're now killing targets the town wants gone anyways.

Where it falls apart is if ALL the scum are in it. Thats a bad world. But, pragmatism says if all the scums play town enough that holy fire purging wins them the game then I can't even be mad.

[SpyreX]

Well, actually, I agree with the second part, but why doesspeakingof it make it almost impossible to do?

Because of whats happening here, in various forms. If its not "NO YOURE NOT MY REAL DAD" or "IM TOO KOOL FOR YOUR RULES *smokes cigarette*" it turns into "Well article 4 section b says the when it should say and we should take this to committe and who adds new players who watches the watchmen???"

And before you know it, someone peed the bed.

[SpyreX]

Given these possibilities and your views on them, do you think that scum are therefore more likely to agree with the charter so that more of them get into the town bloc?

Agreement or disagreement doesn't really mean anything. Its the how and why. I think that scum that feel they could use it to their advantage would say yes, scum that know they're in trouble from the idea of it would say no (see hiplop un eagle).

I have an idea. How about each of us post the board game picks we made? It has no relevance on alignments but it could be useful (and fun?) to see. I'll lead by example. I picked Dominion because me and my friends play it all the time.

Nope. Not at this point. Without knowing all the pieces of the pie, this is usually an idea that has minimal upside and could have huge downside.

Posting at work so forgive my brevity and ignorance of some of the particulars.

Tammy's(I think?) post about the charter getting rid of the activities she usually uses made me think of something: What if the charter was not only a code of behavior, but also described a course of actions and responsibilities? We could design it, for example, to force every player to do certain things and/or have us plan our course of action: A specific example or two:

-Each player must provide a complete reads list every X days/posts.
-On day 1, the players will lynch the person with the lowest number of posts.
-At the beginning of day 2, the 3 top scumreads will be debated in open forum to determine the lynch.

Someone else pointed out that the charter wouldn't be set in stone. Of course negotiating and altering these things would also give us reads.

Not a good idea - its the concept, the simple idea of "hey, lets move forward in a unified direction" thats important. Codification is begging for dissention and/or gaming.

@Tammy you're killin me smalls:

The only person who has really approached the way that people reacted to the charter with any sense of depth is spyspy and I'm not going to just call him town from that because he's capable of putting out what he has so far as scum. HOWEVER, he feels a little bit different from his replace in posts in faraday's upick, but he was also a replacement and I think I remember him saying that he didn't have as much time to put into it as he would have liked. But his reads list gave me little warm fuzzies because it looked like he was actually looking at the motivation of the people.

That's the thing. Until I got here I was not stoked about that post at all but here you see it is not only possible but I'll say flat out

better

then the normal RVS dongers to talk about something that gives insight into motivations and direction. Its like you missed the forest for the trees.

The early game is here - go hog wild. But don't think that the 'charter' talk is really moving away from the important part of looking at the motivations.

[SpyreX]

I could get behind suyre but

@Hiplop:

Explain how you get from your first post to that post in your head.

[SpyreX]

@SpyreX: I think you missed my question. Do you scum read baldeagle or are you saying he's a good policy lynch?

Both. There is a lot of overlap on the venn diagram there. Especially considering while most everyone is talking about things he's pretty much fixated on "THE CHARTER IS FOR NOT SCUMHUNTINGGGSSS" which isn't irony but just terrible.

Spyrex, how is your readalong of the games I linked coming?

HS, is there a reason you haven't reached out to me at all, given your history with me?

Slow as balls. I'm hoping tomorrow night / sunday morning to have actual solid time to devote to some mafia stuff that's going to take a real amount of time.

Annnd:

uh...reading? first post was rvs iirc

[SpyreX]

@Morph:

I only read D1 of that pokemon game but if the charter were in place there town wins it every time and even HS who was crackballs nuts caught one of the scum out the gate and another one literally beetlejuiced and then replaced out.

Soooo I'm not stoked about the mastermind scum talk thus far

[SpyreX]

Oncall screwed me today. Tomorrow.

[SpyreX]

I lied yesterday about tomorrow being today.

I think I want to purge the filth a lot.

[SpyreX]

kdub. yes its not a towntell, but guess what it also isn't? Scumtell!

and @awesomeusername most players are trash and anyone who writes big posts gets seen as a "great scumhunter whos genuinely trying". Doesn't even matter whats in it because they often don't read. Therefore best thing for scum to do is write big, useless posts about finding scum

So basically exactly what Porkins is doing.

Now this really illustrates why I'm cool with my vote here.

If you look at the actual percentage of words or posts hiplop has literally spent more of his time talking about the charter then porkens.

It's smoke and mirrors at this point.

[SpyreX]

I'm in agreement with Hadrian insofar as lastmans lurking is far more troublesome then surye's (while not stoked about either yet).

I am absolutely fine with this hiplop lynch. I am not absolutely fine with how lackasdasical it seems to be round har now.

[SpyreX]

VL until Weds ish.

Also, I really, really don't like 307. However, I dont think it makes hiplop a bad lynch.

[SpyreX]

Well thanks guys for making this easy on my list of catchup while I'm V/LA.

If he flips scum I think that makes hiplop town which I've got mixed feelings about.

Also, for the sake of the game not breaking, post 390 has to be disregarded. As in don't talk about it period after this point.

[SpyreX]

Its definitely not a throw entirely but now the question is: is that genuine?

401 I have a harrrdd time believing

[SpyreX]

@Morph & LMS:
Where are you getting role madness / everyone is a power role from?

[SpyreX]

I did not shoot anyone last night

[SpyreX]

I have an additional request to go with that:
If you targeted hiplop last night, say so. Not with WHAT, but just that you targeted him.

[SpyreX]

@Madotsuki:

Could you have had anything to do with Rolodex being the target?

I'm almost done being obtuse, I promise.

[SpyreX]

I've got a Hadrian crush growing and I'm down with Surye but there's a few things that need to be cleared up before sweet, sweet blood.

@Morph: Why D1 did you say "role-madness"?
@Mado: Pls don't miss my post in regards to the NK

[SpyreX]

Thank you god

[SpyreX]

Actually I got what I need.

Hiplop needs to full claim.

[SpyreX]

Unvote, Vote: Hiplop

If I am wrong, I will come clean tomorrow (yes, I am saying what I know isn't 100%) but I'm pretty positive this is right.

[SpyreX]

Ok... that doesn't make sense.

Don't lynch until Mado confirms exactly what happened last night.

[SpyreX]

Well this is a fine mess

So, I guess I'll come clean now.

I know that hiplop was targetted with a manipulative ability.

Mado claimed to be the targeter. When she said it could have affected the kill I was fairly sure that meant she manipulated his target. But, apparently not.

Now, how the shit a neighbourize is manipulative I don't know but I guesssss with the options available sure.

But I have 0 idea on how that connects to influencing the kill.

----

The biggest reason why I was asking that is I don't think baldeagle was a clean scum pick for the kill. It doesn't make sense.

[SpyreX]

Without spilling everything I can answer a few things (and I am asking for clarification on others although my expectations aren't high).

I would have known EVERYTHING he was targetted with. There was 1 action. Manipulative. Which unless this is a "tied" action I don't see how mado could have influenced the kill. @hiplop: when did the QT open?

My role only does one thing a night.

[SpyreX]

Lemme confirm hiplop:

You got the PM at the start of D2 - as in Mado didn't get to talk to you N1 through it.

[SpyreX]

Got a confirmation. Neighborizer would be Manipulative.

Sooo we're left with how that alters the night kill

[SpyreX]

Maybe I can help clear up my thought process which led to this (although Kdub has it pretty much right):

Keep in mind I read good and didn't realize this was "role madness" so hiplops "I am a great and powerful warrior" declaration D1 I thought, for sure, would have someone target him. When it returned manuplative, I really, really didn't expect someone to just say yea I did it - which would have cemented hiplop as town.

Then mado actually says THEY did it and I thought the next obvious thing would be a redirect and when they said they could have affected the night kill, easy peasy. But noo

Of course NOW I know that the entire universe of strange actions is manipulative (I asked about a small set of abilities) so thats kind of kiboshed.

I'm asking for one more clarification that, dependent on, may help clear part of this up. I don't "get" how Mado could have affected the kill yet but I have a hard time with scum jumping out and going yea it was me there either.

[SpyreX]

I will eat every hat ever if both of them are scum. It makes no sense.

The more hiplop plays, the more I think he's town.

[SpyreX]

Mado needs to get back here before I do something violent.

Unvote

I thought I did that a while ago. DONT TEMPT ME TOO LONG

[SpyreX]

I'm hammering before I go to bed.

I'm not excited about it because, like the kdubs, I can't parse being secret and mysterious right before the death bell rings but not helping gets purged by fire.

[SpyreX]

Thats the only reason I didn't go all murdery

[SpyreX]

GOD. I REGRET THIS ALREADY.

TOMORROW. MORPH YOU DO STUFF

[SpyreX]

We both agree that Spyrex is probably town. That would be a bit of epic distancing and planning to pull off the night action things yesterday, though I do still wonder why he targeted hiplop to voyeur.

I went into that a little bit yesterday. Hiplop's "mega PR" claim and not realizing that it was clearly stated role madness made me pretty sure I was gonna see something bite and, depending, would make a pretty clear case for him being town.

Which ended up happening albeit not in the way I expected at all.

Soo... what the hell is a Shifting Neighborizer? I'm not familiar with Shifting.

AND IN GRAND TRADITION:

Something happened with my ability last night woo. I'm waiting for confirmation from the mod if I was blocked or if there's a ruckus involved.

---

That aside we need to kick some fires on some quieter folk.

[SpyreX]

The flip was "Day Talk Enabler-Shifting Neighborizer". So presumably it's the day talk enabler aspect of the role that can be shifted?

My role is a multi-part as well and is broke by a -. It's not a huge deal at the moment because hiplop is pretty much town and even if the role works that hiplop is giving scum daytalk now sure.

The more important part for consideration is the fact it is clear scum had daytalk. Which means - what the fuck was yesterday? I still look back at that and just shake my head at how that all went down and the knowledge scum could have been getting ASSISTANCE and that happened? Either they're on a whole new level or we're looking at an interesting cut for scum.

I'd also like another set or two of eyes to look at it early - when I voted hiplop, there should have been a for real push to lynch him before it unraveled.

---

Rereading Mado isn't a lot to go on. The Shroomish/Morph drum was consistent and based on everything else actually makes me a little more paranoid about morph via the good ol fashioned town/scum suspects.

I went through and looked at some of my slog pool and I feel even better about Quil - the only sticking point is that there isn't more.

PV needs to engage. I like what he says, but he hasn't said enough about the current gamestate aside from very wide brushes.

Kdub still feels town to me *shrug*.

Which is part of my problem - I dont have any slam dunk scum right now. I have TOWN (hiplop, porkens, awesome via porkens) and town (Quil, Hadrian) but even the remainder I'm not stoked about and I'm a useless babe without sweet bloodlust.

----

BUT lets see:

@Porkens:

Did you target morph last night and is that why you voted? I dont care with what, I just want to know if you targeted them and the result (or absence thereof) is why you voted.

[SpyreX]

I;ve been prodded. I apologize, but it may be a day or two before I can get back on track. RL is a train with no brakes.

[SpyreX]

Ok guys here is the deal.

I'm straight fucked for a day or two, at least. I want to come in, put the hat on and go ITS TIME FOR BLOOD PARTIES.

The one thing I can do though is mount up for the time being.

Lets man up. I want some competing wagons and I want some hot hot heat. We're getting a wave of apathy and I know first hand how much damage that causes.

Unvote, Vote: PV

The other thing, and I can "kind" of see it is monseur Porkens would explaining N1 help clear up the strange air around Username?
My gut says that he's posting unedited and thats town as shit, but lets nip that now.

[SpyreX]

Hold up.

These conditional shenanigans are something else and now thats two with them.

Pork:
I don't think so. He didn't perform the kill night 1. His role is just as likely town as scum, even in more normaler games. Read him based on his play, not my night 1 result. Does that answer your questions?

Do you know he didn't perform the kill because you were able to track him? I mean, are we seeing multi tracker claim nonsnese

[SpyreX]

Hold up.

These conditional shenanigans are something else and now thats two with them.

Pork:
I don't think so. He didn't perform the kill night 1. His role is just as likely town as scum, even in more normaler games. Read him based on his play, not my night 1 result. Does that answer your questions?

Do you know he didn't perform the kill because you were able to track him? I mean, are we seeing multi tracker claim nonsnese

[SpyreX]

Not unless it gets us a murder.

This conditional nonsense though:

How many people have conditionals?

[SpyreX]

I'm fucked for 3 more days at minimum.

Nothing I see dissuades me from PV by any real measure.

Lets just get it done the bandying isn't halping.

[SpyreX]

Sup everyone.
Hiplop died protecting me. I have 48 hours with him in a QT.
He's pretty gung ho about Kdub at the moment.

Additionally today is probably both for massclaim and for hadrian gangbusters. We need to move quick. I request going last in massclaim unless there's a good reason not to (I may have something incriminating).

The worst of my bullshit is over, so I should be more active.

Someone needs to start the process quickly.

[SpyreX]

So I'll do this halfway:

I'm Go. Alternating Voyeur/Follower - I dont see WHO, just what type(s) of abilities they get targeted with.

N1 I voyeured Hiplop and saw the Manipulative action.

N2 & 3 wait until the end unless you're gonna reaaaalllly say I'm scum and this is all a great ruse.

Hiplop protected KDub N1 and me N2 and N3.

He's saying the scum are Kdub and Username and morph is being setup for a lynch.

Lets get this part done so we can move on. The quote striped walls are killing my soul

[SpyreX]

Yea I'd say town is in a solid position, I dont see why we'd chicken little there:

N2 I followed morph and got "No Result" - this would be what I get if I was blocked OR (and this was why I was fishin to see if anyone else targetted them) if Morph was Aesthetic. Because that'd be something I could easily see with this nonsense.
N3 I voyeured hadrian - No one targeted Hadrian. Which lines up with what we've seen unfortunately.

Kdub - Chess - Innocent Child
Hadrian - Glory to Rome - One-Shot gladiator
Porkens - Dungeon! - Self-watcher (N1 - awesome, N2 - didn't use, N3 - Quill); one-shot role-thief (N1 - stole role cop from awesome)
awesome - ? - Vote-betting role cop (loses vote next day if he investigates scum; N1 - Porkens, N2 - no action, N3 - Kdub)
SpyreX - Go Alternating voyeur/follower (N1 - manipulative on hiplop, N2 - No Result - Morph, N3 - No One - Hadrian )
morph - Morph-It - Redirector/post restriction gifter (redirects player X to player Y, gives player X post restriction; N1 - Surye to Hiplop, N2 - awesome to PV, N3 - Kdub to morph)
Quill - Scrabble - Motivator (N1 - HighShroomish, N2 - HighShroomish, N3 - Porkens); one-shot roleblocker (N3 - morph)

So here is the skinny as I see it:
Kdub - Town duh
Porkens - Town. Every fiber of my being says town here.
Quill - Most likely town - Scum motivating town for "cred" doesn't make a lot of sense here. I'd need a serious reason to really consider this.

So that leaves us with:
Hadrian
Morph
AUN

My brain says lynch AUN - on a town flip that confirms porkens (AND I WISH KDUB HAD WAITED). The role doesn't make sense. The fucked you vote part being passive as part of the active doesn't make sense. I still call ultimate teaparty on porkens N1 for a town rolecop and the fact that its a cop AND a rolecop with the "detective" also flipped doesn't make sense. Scum rolecop makes perfect sense (and porkens N1) makes a lot of sense.

My heart says of the other two scums gonna be morph, by a long reach. It probably wouldn't take a lot to swing me that way.

Ultimately this is the only thing that matters: we hit scum today, we win. Period. I don't see ANYONE being scum that can dodge the minefield from this point on by themselves.

Unovte, Vote: AUN

Holy PEdits I'm not even going to get started but I'll stay the course and not spite swing.

[SpyreX]

I'm super paranoid about morph being an Aesthetic.

Jailer and Roleblocker wouldn't return a fucked up result and sliding along with that makes sense.

Has anyone actually had Morph's ability connect?

[SpyreX]

I'm saying that its not that much of a stretch - the whole word games part is bullshit and they're hiding whatever it is they're actually doing at night (see: killing people). If you're scum, its not THAT hard of a leap especially in ~role madness~ to say "well, scum must have done it" or ride the train if someone claims it on you.

I'm not claiming blocked because this role has a lot of drugs in it - I'm saying that blocked makes the most sense because most of the other things that could do some shit like that make 0 sense with what has been claimed. All I know for certain is I got No Result versus nothing - which is just interference.

[SpyreX]

Hold up a damn second:

morph - Morph-It - Redirector/post restriction gifter (redirects player X to player Y, gives player X post restriction;

N1 - Surye to Hiplop

, N2 - awesome to PV, N3 - Kdub to morph)

I'm confirming with the mod but I saw hiplop get targetted with

A

manipulative action N1.

[SpyreX]

HURR BLOCKED nevermind

See this is what happens when we dont murder people

[SpyreX]

Anyways cart before horse - AUN reasons not to lynch lets discuss this or murder

[SpyreX]

We aren't scum, but I'm coming around to the idea that our cardflip would help town more than mislynching us would harm town.

The problem is, our night action could potentially either do some good tonight, or draw a scum counter that lets another town action take place. Assuming Quill and SpyreX are town, which I'm not certain of.

I almost caught SpyreX in the Song uPick game because he wasn't taking more of a leadership role in the game. Then I blinked, and the town roleblocker was lynched instead.

In this game, I was really impressed with his day 1. Day 2, he went after madot, but I guess kinda left a door open for us to derail that lynch. Day 3 was just retarded. :/

I'm asking myself if he's taking a leadership role in this game. I don't like the answer if I discount day 1.

Anyway I'm not anywhere close to willing to end this day. I'll be flying home on Tuesday and after that I'll have time to really dig back through the game and figure out what I missed or glossed over.

If you were town what "help" does your flip give versus AUN's flip right now?

And no, Day 2 I went after hiplop out of the gate - until through multiple questions to the mod and catdrugs Mado pretty much lynched themselves. As much as I'd love to say I was some paragon of light that day I would have had very, very little to run on if Mado hadn't opened their mouth about affecting the kill - which STILL doesn't make a whole lot of sense looking back and I'd love to know the thought process there. So my

information

helped make that happen but I sure as hell didn't pick up a flag and rally hard early.

Day 3 was stupid on so many levels but spilt milk.

But as Kdub pointed out - why did you say anything when I asked way back when about targeting hiplop?

And what the shit with both of you whom I want to put against the wall just shrugging like ok then.

[SpyreX]

And and if the scum team is not morph/awesome what are you going to do then?

You do realize we should be pretty close to confirmed town as it is. You know that's the role we have. We don't want to use it period. We could be using it right now, but as I said before I'd rather be lynched outright than take a chance we lose to scum. Because if we lose to scum today IS lylo. They go into tomorrow with three votes. Why do you think I've been arguing about not using it? Why do you think I said yesterday if we needed to prove it to use it yesterday.

But let's say I'm scum here? I could gladiate my partner today, why wait until tomorrow? I could gladiate town today and hope to win it now and win in the night phase. Why not do that? Why make a fuss about not wanting to use it? Why?

Gladiating willy nilly would have been a death warrant.
Gladiating your partner today doesn't actually win the game if you're scum.
Yes in theory if you're scum AND not scum with AUN you could have jumped on that early for a win but thats still a gamble.

I'm not convinced you're scum. I'm convinced that these last two pages of bluster and bullshit get to stop. Because absolutely unless its something worth me

gambling the game right now

on you being town and hitting scum for sure porkens and AUN are right in that gaining a day is better than not (even if AUN may be absolutely self-serving with it).

Cause, again, it takes a lot of effort to not just say fuck it and lynch right now.

[SpyreX]

There wouldn't be bluster in the first place if we didn't get criticized

for trying to figure ut the game in the first place

Just lynch us. This is a town loss anyway if it's not awesome/morph. If it is awesome/morph town win yay utility lynches work woohoo.

But if not, kdub and we are the only people trying to figure out the game, so town loss, shame on people for going on auto pilot.

See this. This doesn't help.

Believe it or not I'm not on autopilot. But I also don't feel the need to devote as much energy to scenarios that aren't as obvious. For shits sake I literally asked you to give me a reason to not vote you and its back to "figuring out the game".

Of the grouping I'm most interested in (Hadrian, AUN, morph). I want AUN lynched the most. On top of his role in the pairing lands he makes more sense then Hadrian-morph smokescreen gambit. I haven't "disregarded" Quil but I've asked whats the angle on motivating town. Cred? All the cred in the universe doesn't save scum if a scum gets lynched today.

Then there's AUN's fuckin throwout on you without a vote behind it.

But then there's the last two pages off of porkens single vote and the fuck it.

If porkens is scum he's played me so masterfully I can't help but applaud him. That hasn't happened - I don't meta but I ~meta~ all over him. This is town porkens.
I keep getting bandied about and if you really want to put that spyrex-scum whispers to rest then lets go. If thats what it takes to move this forward then lets do it.

But even if you're offended at the idea of being lynched today because if you are scum it does win the game tomorrow I don't know what to say. I mean good lord you know the 'risk' can't be taken to clear it because at that point the dice would have been already thrown.

[SpyreX]

This game is cats and dogs.

I have a super hard time seeing the AUN-scum motivation for the last few pages unless its balls-to-the wall gambit (kudos) but he's 100% right that AUN-town means Hadrian-town or the slow play for no reason which is right out. If thats the case morph and quil? But then quil motivated town last night which is ~moonbeams~ in and of itself.

Kdub where the shit are you I need this to make sense.

Unvote

[SpyreX]

The only thing is either there is a scum blocker or morph is Aesthetic.

Which in theory could explain the motivate if its quill/morph

[SpyreX]

Aesthetics normally can't be targetted by anything. So instead of wasting it tying to bank cred makes sense.

[SpyreX]

Ok someone with some druthers.

Lets play the pros/cons game weighting risk/reward. I'm spinning my wheels and its driving me nuts.

[SpyreX]

If Awesome is scum, we're fine.
If Awesome is town, Hadrian, Porkens and Kdub are all clear.

Unvote, Vote Awesome

[SpyreX]

I really don't want to fuck around today much at all to come to the same end result we start with.

Unvote, Vote: Morph

[SpyreX]

What was your result last night? If you saw morph making the kill, just say so and we can end this. If you saw Quill doing exactly what he said, then we can still just hammer morph and end this.

If you did anything else, you have some explaining to do.

It should be clear that because I didn't say either of those things I'd have some "explaining" to do.

Hadrian didn't go anywhere *rimshot*. In no universe did I expect them to actually BE the night kill (I honestly expected a NK last night).

Now, if we want to have an in-depth discussion about me not being scum at this point (referred to herein as the fumblefucking) it doesn't change a thing. Porkens is town. You are town. The game is won it is just a matter of going through the motions.

So if we've got to go through that lets go ahead. Or if you're really super scared we can do it tomorrow if there's a tomorrow (there wont be). Because if its Quill and he wants any chance at it he's killing Porkens tonight.

[SpyreX]

I'm really not going to pour out a massive amount of effort on this but I can run you through the thought process since it isn't all that convoluted.

Lets keep in mind the following mantras: Kdub is town. Porkens is town.

So, we're looking at a set of 3: Hadrian, Morph, Quill.

At this point the result itself of my action doesn't matter as much as my action being successful (hence me expecting an NK and, if not that, to be killed myself - note, Porkens watching me should cement the town in case we decide to do this the hard way).

The one thing I didn't expect was a kill outside of Kdub/Porkens/Myself - it doesn't make sense because, like I said yesterday, a flipped scum cements the game at that point. Hadrian being unlikely for a kill AND with no hijinks thus far was just fine.

But, I didn't put a lot of thought into it aside from not morph due to my own paranoia.

[SpyreX]

Even if you had paranoia about Hadrian, they were far likelier for a NK than morph or Quill, don't you agree? And why paranoia about Hadrian, but not Porkens? awesome flipping scum didn't officially clear either of them, but based on interactions yesterday, I don't see how you could think either of them were particularly likely to be scum.

Anyway, this might all be moot if morph is scum. I don't think any new info is going to change my mind on today's lynch. Intent to hammer as soon as everyone is ready.

Likelier maybe (if I was scum and went full bananas I would have killed Quill over Hadrian but done neither of those over a NK) but that still is a drop in the bucket compared to the other alternatives - a NK, you or me. With porkens being next in line. I mean the fact it HAPPENED means I didn't drink the juice well enough but.

Porkens had nothing to do with awesome-scum and everything to do with this game. I know town. I know Porkens. I know Porkens town. Going back and looking how some played out (like the PM misread) he's either become a scum super mastermind or is town as balls. I'm willing to eat all the hats its the latter.

Its either morph or quill and I'm like 90% on morph. I fully expect the game to end on this lynch and I'd much, much rather have wallfights after.

[SpyreX]

Hey look I'm town

[SpyreX]

Quill

What did you do last night

[SpyreX]

Also to whomever is scum.

I hate you a lot right now. This game makes no sense at this point either way.

[SpyreX]

Ohh you better not be phone posting mode.

Why did you motivate Porkens twice and not Kdub before?

Porkens why DO you have watching powers?

[SpyreX]

This gives me a massive headache right now.

I have some stuff I want to go into, but I honestly want to see a bit of a slugout before I influence it with my words.

[SpyreX]

Why? I haven't said who I visited yet.

[SpyreX]

I've been himmin and hawwing most of my Easter trip back about this.

I reread this game and really looked at the series of bananas that went on and maybe its familiarity but Porkens still feels like town Porkens by a margin. I went through it full tilt paranoia and while I can see it, it just doesn't make enough sense. The awesome 180 and the opting to throw him under the bus when he did just dont click right for scum.

Especially after relooking at Quill and really seeing that my read is almost entirely that early game and then the motivating Porkens. Otherwise Quill kind of lived in backdrop.

Except for Hadrian. That kill made little sense to me at that point with who was left except for the fact Hadrian super wanted a dead Quill.

I think the plan was for me to be the patsy today as probably at least some of the dead thread assumed I was scum coming into today.

Well, dead guys, I hope I dont have to apologize.

Unvote, Vote: Quill