Mini 1568: Another Awesome Alliteration Adventure (over)

[Rubicon]

Yo.

[Rubicon]

yo.

What amazing content: the word yo (btw thanks for replacing in so quickly)

Also, please vote riptide kkthnx

Content will come in the morning, still catching up.

[Rubicon]

decided to stay up and talk a little about the Cho-TSO thing. Will post thoughts about other players tomorrow (and decide who to vote), but want to see how those two respond to this.

I am 100% confident that Cho, Elyse, and mnemonicdevice are Town for their votes. Accordingly, they are now Town Day 1 Unlynchables.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: MTD

This post comes so close to being something I approve of, yet somehow falls so short.

You state here that you were deliberately exaggerating your reads on these players:

3)

I'm "backing off" because I made an RVS statement meant to come off as a strong read, even though I knew myself that it wasn't concrete at all. I don't particularly like this point either because I'm both going to be called Scum for using the buzzword, and called Scum for admitting it was a buzzword.

You must have known this whole series of early posts would attract attention. So why did you want that attention? What were you hoping to achieve by making exaggerated statements like this?

As a result, Cho, Elyse, and mnemonicdevice are exempt from much of my suspicion for today, provided that they don't royally fuck up, of course!

What are your current reads on Elyse and mnemonicdevice? (I won't bother asking for your current read on Cho. )

Lastly, why should we assume that this game is or isn't multiball? Regardless, you'll never be conftown, because you're being quite mean right now.

Cho, please explain this comment.

I can't find any context for it, and when asked about it earlier, you never responded.

Riptide

, yes, of course! Their votes and posts simply looked so comfortable. It certainly doesn't look like scum forcing themselves to play along with town's "true RVS" game, as may happen when scum are trying to choose whether to place their first vote on a teammate or not!

Of course, this isn't a concrete towntell, as I've already explained. But I like their votes, and so far I like Elyse's style!

Was this serious?

If you're scum, this looks like you're deliberately creating WIFOMy interactions with Elyse and mnemonicdevice in case your over-the-top posts get you lynched. I don't understand why you, if town, would be doing this, but feel free to explain it if you can.

But while I'm not allowing myself to completely exclude those players, Elyse in particular, from potentially being scum, I

am

allowing myself the small luxury of feeling like I can trust them for the time being. (Meaning, I'm not going to bother myself in trying to envision scenarios where they could be scum, at least for Day 1.)

Why not? As an approach to the game of mafia, what do you gain by ignoring certain players during Day 1? (This is a serious question.) It's ironic because the more you say you're ignoring those players the more I want to hear you give detailed, concrete thoughts about them.

MTD:

I tend to see a vote without explanation in RVS as a good thing, shockingly enough, as I also think scum are more likely to overanalyze every early move they make. I know that in my own early non-replacement scum games, I deliberated over where I would place my RVS vote, what kind of joke I would attempt to use to explain it, and so on. Seeing a naked vote is refreshing. I won't deny that the repeated questioning on this point and player in particular is making me less confident on my stance there, but that was what I saw at the time.

I have trouble believing you think naked votes are a town tell.


--

Lastly, why should we assume that this game is or isn't multiball?

Assume non-multiball until proven multiball is my mantra regarding this.

Your top scum suspect suddenly demands to know why you think the game is or isn't multiball, when neither you nor anyone else has mentioned multiball previously.

You don't call them on this at all, and instead act as though you

did

in fact say something about multiball which needed clarified.

Please explain the thought process behind that for me.

Pretty sure confirmation bias is something to do reading your scum role PM and thus knowing others are Town.

I could be wrong here.

This makes no sense. You've been calling Cho scum all game. You should not have read

"certain people are determined to use every new post you make as a way to further their confirmation bias"

and assumed the accusation was that you know she's town. If you did interpret it that way, you should have responded by asking how she could possibly get that idea -

not

by saying "so you think I'm scum then??"

On the other hand, if you

are

scum and

do

secretly know Cho is town, and are tunneling her as a strategy and not reading her actual defenses in detail, it's not surprising that you misunderstood.

[Rubicon]

Lastly, why should we assume that this game is or isn't multiball? Regardless, you'll never be conftown, because you're being quite mean right now.

Cho, please explain this comment.

I can't find any context for it, and when asked about it earlier, you never responded.

When she flips scum I'm conftown, by the way.

Lastly, why should we assume that this game is or isn't multiball? Regardless, you'll never be conftown, because you're being quite mean right now.

Hm, so you think T S O isn't conftown because he may be scum hunting the other team, and thinking you're it. That's a weird thing to throw at him though, since it assumes that he's right and you will flip scum. If you know you'll flip town it's a moot point and I'm not sure why you'd even mention it.

hiya Rubi, did we play in a Large together one time? You seem somewhat familiar.

Calvin & Hobbes, I think?

It took me a while to mentally get exactly what you're saying here, but when I did, I came to the same conclusion as before. I don't see what's wrong with my thought process here.

TSO's brain: "Confirmation bias = Scum"
Cho: TSO has confirmation bias.
TSO: Didn't you say you weren't calling me scum?

is a paraphrased version of events, as far as I can see.

TSO: "Cho is scum!"
TSO's brain: "Confirmation bias = knows Cho is town"
Cho: TSO has confirmation bias.
TSO: Why would you think I thought you were town?

The point is the "knows Cho is town" part, which you left out of your mental dialogue above.

[Rubicon]

And "a distinct lack of anything resembling scumhunting"- really? When I'm trying to defend myself from accusations, I need to focus on that; there's so much criticism of me that I need to respond to that it's not like there's that much time for me to focus on anything else.

Even then, I

have

been scumhunting apart from looking at T S O's cases on me.

I looked at The Betting Pool and stated I thought they were slightly scummy but for potentially flawed reasons.

I think Jargonaut is still fairly scummy for what feels like overly-detached and just "there" posting, if you can kind of understand what I mean.

I affirmed that I still think Elyse is town from her posts.

And I think Riptide is probably scum for trying to point out contradictions that don't even exist. This is probably a stronger reason for my read than them basically just getting behind T S O's read.

Okay, give me the 3 scummiest things that you've seen happen in this game,

not including

people's pressure on you.

[Rubicon]

I think Cho was probably the best wagon.

Fucking quickhammers, though.

[Rubicon]

@Burning_Earth

Why exactly did you just hammer?

[Rubicon]

VOTE: Riptide

Weird and defensive play + both the wagon from yesterday being 2/3 confirmed town + Elyse dying = scum Rip.

[Rubicon]

Okay, using NK WIFOM to justify a vote on someone is bad. It is the baddest of bads.
By the by, most of our play so far is just dice being dice. And I don't even see how he was that defensive.
Also, I just convinced dice Elyse was scum over night, so now we both have to go back and fix our reads.
-HS

Haven't played alongside Dice in a game but both of your play has been lackluster so far.

What were your reasons for scum-reading Elyse?

pedit: ninja'd

[Rubicon]

^ Exactly. I mean, it could be faked, but more likely isn't? Especially the way Dice followed up by saying it was a full "ISO, case thingy" which meant they had to spend/waste a bunch of time putting together a long-ass case against her.

IGMEOT until they step their game up though.

Tentatively think B_E's reaction to realizing he accidentally hammered, and his first couple posts today, feels town.

[Rubicon]

VOTE: dunhamganger

[Rubicon]

I said it probably did make you town

[Rubicon]

TSO: I'd be interested to know who you think is scummiest relative to the Cho wagon from yesterday.

The Jargonaut-scum argument bores me because it feels like it's more rhetoric than anyway solid.

What's your read on Jargonaut, anyway?

[Rubicon]

I don't approve of the dunham wagon. Yeah, he doesn't seem very invested and his posts are generally not that serious, but really, that doesn't scream scum to me and as others said, the not-that-seriousness seems to be in his meta.
It really just seems to be an easy target which scum would love to hop on to me.

Also:

I'm short on time but I just wanna say I approve of the Dunham wagon.

Why this? You are voting him, it is obvious you approve, so why say this?

Start an alternative wagon and give us a good reason to vote it with you.

[Rubicon]

Orly

[Rubicon]

Orly

After re-reading a little, your entrance on Cho isn't bad, just not what I was expecting compared to how you entered Binding of Isaac.

What are you reads atm? Also, why the vote on dun?

That's pretty much how I feel about you (compared to Binding of Isaac & Fire and Ice) although I think your jump on the Cho wagon WAS bad. The Elyse thing is the only thing going for you frankly.

I don't obv-town in every game though. Binding of Isaac was an unusual situation since I replaced in at L-1.

I wanted to see where the dun vote would go, answer seems to be nowhere. If dunham is town there is probably scum parked on this wagon, possibly scum distancing from it (in the players talking about how it's such a bad wagon without saying why).

toolendo town read.

Would really like for TSO to do something town with the interactions from his push on Cho yesterday.

[Rubicon]

hello

[Rubicon]

Declaring intent to hammer.

B_E, claim.

[Rubicon]

Nope, intent to hammer.

[Rubicon]

Uh huh... Is this your response to me asking you to analyze the Cho wagon? Because that's pretty weak.

Riptide's jump on the wagon was really terrible and screamed scum opportunism. The Betting Pool's vote was questionable at best - the tone of Lucky's 164 is also weirdly over the top, like the part where he attacks her for admitting to looking for mentions of her name and calls her a jester, and they never adjust the read even when Cho does start making an attempt to do something. (Their jump on the B_E wagon on the last page is also opportunistic - look at that reasoning, or lack thereof.) Dunhamganger's vote switch was at least as bad as B_E's, yet you've inexplicably been defending him.

This post you wanted us to wait for is literally "well B_E is scum for accidentally hammering so yeah". Thanks, no one had suggested that one before.

[Rubicon]

So are we doing anything more or should I hammer this guy?

[Rubicon]

Raise your hand if you regret not lynching the fuck out of TSO.

raises hand

[Rubicon]

Congrats to scum though. You guys played excellently.

This was a fun one to follow along with even after dying.