Marvel Avengers Alliance - Game over

[PeregrineV]

Have no fear, I am here!!

[PeregrineV]

Quick, someone, tell me who to vote!

[PeregrineV]

Hiya, Peregrine!

Hellllloooooooo!

[PeregrineV]

Quick, someone, tell me who to vote!

Zak today.

If scum - Smudger tomorrow.

Win.

Oh wait...

I think I'm Zak or Zakk, so not happening.

[PeregrineV]

PV, vote Cxin.

Was going to, but then thought Porkens ISO mentioned a claim. I haven't gotten to it yet, did he already claim?

[PeregrineV]

Porkens is dead. Cxin hasn't claimed.

Yeah, just finished reading.

Let's start here:

I think town:
Yates
Bulbazak
Yiley *
BROseidon
XScorpion

I think town but think i can be fooled into thinking that they are town because I think they are really good at scum.
Thor
T S O

I think scum:
smargaret*
Smudger

Further review:
cxinlee
Smudger
Thor
T S O

[PeregrineV]

Vote: Smargaret

(Although out of game, I hope you feel better soon.)

[PeregrineV]

Why do you think Bro is town?
What do the asterisks mean?
Let me know what you think about cxinlee.

Recent game.
Nothing they are from the playerlist.
I think he's not playing to his wincon, but I think as scum he would at least try more to fit in, which you can also read as "try less to piss people off by doing nothing".

Lynching him for playing badly (or not playing) is OK, but a scum lynch is better.

[PeregrineV]

wow, this is the most useful I've seen p5 ever be.

p5 are you scum?

the oopostie, actually.

And it's fresh and new. What til the new game smell wears off.

[PeregrineV]

@Pere - I love your read list...please justify the Yiley = town read NOW.

Go read http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=34150.

[PeregrineV]

@Pere - I love your read list...please justify the Yiley = town read NOW.

Go read http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=34150.

I see an active and involved Yiley who flipped town.
Clearly I'm missing something - what is it?

Same style, same one-sentence posting limit, same feel.

Granted, I haven't explored any Yiley-scum games. Is this something worth the time to do, IYO?

[PeregrineV]

@Pere - I love your read list...please justify the Yiley = town read NOW.

Go read http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=34150.

I see an active and involved Yiley who flipped town.
Clearly I'm missing something - what is it?

Same style, same one-sentence posting limit, same feel.

Granted, I haven't explored any Yiley-scum games. Is this something worth the time to do, IYO?

I don't care if you do or don't. I'm still trying to understand the town read.
So basically you expect short one sentence posts to equate to him being town...to the point he doesn't need any further examination?

18 pages in, no.
At this point, unless given reason, I'm throwing him into the town pile and can "further examine" later.

I mean, did you even consider whether short, one sentence posts were something he did or didn't do as scum?

This feels like saying 'Well, Thor is being sarcastic in this game, and in one other game I read he was sarcastic and was town - ergo, he's town here. Case closed!'

Not at this point, no.
But don't beat around the bush. Is Yiley a scumread of yours that you want me to look into, or is something else going on?

[PeregrineV]

@Thor- and read my sig- I would most likely use that as a starting point!

[PeregrineV]

@Thor: who do you think is the scum pair now? I'm not sure who p5's buddy would be.

And where did your scumread of me come from, considering I replaced in yesterday?

[PeregrineV]

But don't beat around the bush. Is Yiley a scumread of yours that you want me to look into, or is something else going on?

I thought you said you'd read the game?
No?

I did.

[PeregrineV]

Then why are you unsure of my read on Yiley? I don't think I was subtle.

You are one of ten other players. Reading the game does not mean "memorize Thor's reads".

Also game for Yiley to enjoy death.

Yeah. Let's lynch Zakk and/or Yiley. I like that vibe.

Subtle, subtle, Thor, master of subtle subtleness.

So subtle...

Hell, who am I kidding, I support a lot of lynches.

[PeregrineV]

No one's going to welcome me? you guys suck

anyone want to give me a cliffsnotes of what's gone on so far?

Not until you actually post.

Welcome!

Scum lynched yesterday, I suspect smargeret and possibly smudger, 4 other suspect me because Zakk made 2 posts. Or something like that.

[PeregrineV]

Scum lynched yesterday, I suspect smargeret and possibly smudger, 4 other suspect me because Zakk made 2 posts. Or something like that.

It's more of the fact that one of the posts is useless and the other one is a hard chainsaw defense of scum.

And.........

[PeregrineV]

And why should I believe you are town?

Well, for starters, I am.

You could, in fact, scumhunt me. Like a mafia game.

[PeregrineV]

And why should I believe you are town?

Well, for starters, I am.

You could, in fact, scumhunt me. Like a mafia game.

Let's wait for antihero to finish reading then you can tell me what you think about him? Considering his slot is your second scum read; unless you missed that?

It is, and I can, and I might have, but now I won't (probably).

[PeregrineV]

My other two are Yiley and Bulba - in case Pere missed it.

Suppose you were wrong. Who's scum?

[PeregrineV]

cxinlee is massively antitown. Post content or don't post, but posting just for the sake of hearing yourself type is essentially doing the prod dodge thing. Scorpion is town. If one of the thor/porkens/bulbazak mess or zekrom is scum, then the other one isn't - I don't see scum trying to distract from distancing like that. Actually, if thor/porkens/bulbazak are town,then zek probably is too because scum want mislynches, and those don't happen if scum draw attention to themselves by blatantly not commenting.

That said, wtf? RVS is not inherently protown.

VOTE: cxin. Have opinions. Express them.

My reasoning wasn't totally clear. It was 3 am local time, in my defense.

Basically, there's a big mess that I wasn't really up to sorting through at 3 am between Thor, Porkens, and Bulbazak. It looks likely that one or more wagons could conceivably come out of that. If T/P/B are all town, then scum would like to encourage those wagons - and not draw a lot of attention to themselves and risk derailing the hypothetically building wagons by trying to start RQS once the game has actually begun. On the flip side, if any of T/P/B are scum, or are distancing, then presumably scum-Zek would know that and would have a planned out response, and I really, REALLY doubt that any entire scumteam would argue for randomly starting RQS. It's WIFOMy, but I don't see any reason why scum-Zek would play that way.

That said, given the lack of a daystart PM, it's probable that the list of currently-active players is disproportionately scummy. Presumably scum would have been told to stop talking in the qt, so they'd all be aware day had started while town players had no idea.

Thor - what's the difference between lynchbait and low-hanging fruit? Specifically re: your reply to me about cxin and your reply to Yates about Zek. I'd quote, but ipads are annoying and I don't feel like switching to the real computer.

Porkens - Do you still think Thor and Bulbazak are scum? Do you think Zek is scum with them? Why?

Bulbazak, though - I don't know that I'd call it a flinch per se, but definitely overly defensive. Do not like.

Zakk - anything else to say? Because calling someone out around one post when we have seven pages of actual stuff to go on (as opposec to questions about emotional state) and then nothing else? That's a bit fence sitty.

cxin - It means don't active lurk. If you're going to post, respond to the thread or actually draw conclusions, don't just post "OHAI, I'm here, nothing to say!". If you don't have an opinion, reread the thread and develop one. What is your read on Zek? In fact, who are your top three scumreads and why?

I know nobody asked or seems to care, but during the first read, when I came across these three posts, they set off warning bells.

95 seems to say that one of (Pork/Thor/Bulba) OR (Zek) is scum, but at the same time calling all of them town. Zekrom had 14 posts at the time of 95.
119- Zek had 18 posts, and Smargaret tries to "clarify" her position. Ends up with Zek=not scum.
168- Questioning all of the above players EXCEPT Zekrom. If your trying to sort the group, why exclude that one?

None of this would have meant much to me except for the Zek scum-flip.

[PeregrineV]

We already know what a scumfuck smargaret is, Pere.

Then why does she have no votes except mine?

[PeregrineV]

My other two are Yiley and Bulba - in case Pere missed it.

Suppose you were wrong. Who's scum?

Wrong about which ones?

Wrong about me.

Wrong about Bulba.

Wrong about Yiley.

Then, wrong about all three.

[PeregrineV]

@scorpion/PA- that was weird.

Even though your gone, the purpose of asking each individually is to try to find the rationale behind Thor-thinking. If he sees some interconnection between all three players or two players or whatever, I'd like to hear it.
If not, I'd like to hear that.
Maybe it would have offended your sensibilities less if I asked it that way, but oh well, I think most everyone got it except you.

And since I really would like to learn Thor-think, the final question would maybe reveal who he thought was scum besides his top 3 reads, and maybe why.

I doubt it, but maybe.


anyways, welcome PA!!

[PeregrineV]

Just read the last page, and I have no idea what prompted that. I think your question(s) could have been more streamlined, but I get where you were going with it.

I'll get caught up pronto; anyone with specific questions they want me to address, sing out.

I'd like a review of 549 and smargaret and for you to tell me you agree or disagree.

[PeregrineV]

Time warp prod received. Post recovery would be much better than me repeating myself.

[PeregrineV]

So far so good. Let's see who all comes back.

[PeregrineV]

Peregrine, I have a Cop result here on you.

So you got the famous Tiger Attack Cop Role? I heard it let's you investigate a player anytime the site is down for more than 8 hours or we have to rollback any posts.

Did you get:
Guilty
Not Guilty
A Little Guilty
Pretty Guilty, But Remorseful
Guilty of Something, but Not Relevant to This Game
Other

?

[PeregrineV]

PV: re: 549, um, your point about #168 is wrong--smargaret did address Zekrom, just misnamed him Zakk. Which actually makes me think she's town, as scum shouldn't be mixing up their scum buddies unless she had the sheer misfortune to draw scum with Zakk and Zek, and if you're town, that obviously can't be the case...

smargaret's 168 was referring to Zakk's 153, not to Zekrom in any form. My question remains, why no attempt to scumhunt the biggest topic at the time?

And counting Zekrom's posts is pretty much a zero-sum game. None of them were more helpful than others, and having had the experience of playing in several Zekrom games and modding one, the line between anti-town Zekrom and scum Zekrom is rather blurred. So saying that he had lots of posts when smargaret made her posts doesn't really speak to their utility in the slightest.

The point was to show that the chance existed for smargaret to engage Zekrom to either scumhunt or defend him (if she thought he was town). She did none of that.

[PeregrineV]

PV:

Zakk - anything else to say? Because calling someone out around one post when we have seven pages of actual stuff to go on (as opposec to questions about emotional state) and then nothing else? That's a bit fence sitty.

The emotional state stuff pretty clearly referenced Zek to me...? I can see it being read both ways.

The putting Zek in with three likely town players is more suspect. If my cxinlee read is wrong, then I'd agree with smargaret pressure. Although it's hard to criticize people not wanting to get on the Zekrom merry-go-round given his method of engagement.

But that's kind of my point. She had no trouble engaing the top three other posters with some sort of question, but not Zek.

Then throws in a single question at the guy who posted once?

Hard to envision a town mindset from that, esp. in light of the Zekrom scumflip.

[PeregrineV]

@Pere - what's your opinion of the cxin wagon?

There's nothing to mention.

I don't think scum intentionally tries to antagonize other players, or continue to post the same way when said players think you are antagonizing them.

Had a and took a stance on Zek that didn't seem to come from scum.

Is probably town, but is probably also going to be lynched today.

I don't have a strong enough town read to try to save him, but not seeing scum.

Would hammer him near deadline, but not my lynch of choice today.

Does that help?

[PeregrineV]

Who do you think is the scum pushing him then?

Cxinlee 5 - Bulbazak,Yates,

smargare

t,BROseidon, penguin_alien

95
258
296
303
305
306
585

[PeregrineV]

Only the one?

cxin is scummy enough to only need one, don't you think?

[PeregrineV]

So you think the other scum are avoiding it like the plague?
Who else is trying to get town points from the approaching mislynch (I mean, besides you)?

Why double-up on the wagon when town will do it for them?

If I knew the second one then I'd probably have said so, no?

[PeregrineV]

So you think the other scum are avoiding it like the plague?
Who else is trying to get town points from the approaching mislynch (I mean, besides you)?

Why double-up on the wagon when town will do it for them?

If I knew the second one then I'd probably have said so, no?

Not sure if answer shows scum or just really bad at scumhunting.

Very binary. Probably more like hexadecimal.

[PeregrineV]

PV, what part of I had a townread on Zekrom do you not understand? I was asking questions to try and figure out what everyone else was, but I already had a townread on Zek. And I tend to ask questions when things catch my eye, especially D1 - I'm not totally sure why you think questioning Zakk is a problem.

Anyway, from reading through the stuff I missed, PV came across as scummy, mostly in the desperation to get a counterwagon going so we don't lynch cxin today. Granted, that means I have way too many scumreads, but another couple of flips will fix that, and cxin needs rope - unless we're actually getting the cop result today?

So, from all of the exchnages, you arrived at a townread on Zekrom, and proceeded to scumhunt Porkens, Thor, and Bulba?

In what way were they so less town in their posting than Zekrom?

[PeregrineV]

not voting

T S O
Yiley
cxinlee

"Let's noose Smargaret....derpa!
Let's vote smargaret if that's what you want!

There, a free Mafia lesson, I am the bestest IC evah!

Damn straight!!

Day 2 vote count 9
Smargaret 1 - PeregrineV

[PeregrineV]

Vote: smargaret

I think I did it.

Thoughts on the final scum after smargaret?

[PeregrineV]

PV needs rope because he's pushing me, but he either hasn't actually read the posts he's citing as evidence of my scumminess (specifically, where I got the townread on Zek) or he's misrepping like heck. And I was pushing cxin before pushing cxin was cool /hipster.

My apologies.

Please quote the post and bold the part where you got the town-read on Zek.

[PeregrineV]

Vote: Antihero

[PeregrineV]

I would much prefer you switch to my vote. This would somewhat relieve my growing suspicions of you, as well as you voting scum. Win-win.

I thought it was 2-1.

Vote:Smargaret

[PeregrineV]

I don't know what 2-1 is about, but that is a fantastic vote.

I thought it was 2 for Antihero/smudger, but Bro was fixing his vote. Would rather smargaret over antihero.

[PeregrineV]

Vote: Pere

Third verse, same as the first.

2 new pieces of information and you have nothing new to add?

Noted.

[PeregrineV]

What links Anti to the Yates kill?

723 and 726.

But he said they were weak scumreads.

[PeregrineV]

What links Anti to the Yates kill?

723 and 726.

But he said they were weak scumreads.

yeah, and carry-over from smudger

who i'm not

so keep creating smokesmokesmoke

Yes, he mentioned that. Do you think it links you in any way to his death, if you were not you?

[PeregrineV]

Yes, he mentioned that. Do you think it links you in any way to his death, if you were not you?

what kind of pointless, loaded question is that?

here's peregrine and BRO to deliver the 1-2 punch on deceptive NK analysis

I'm merely pointing out the link. Not sure why you are getting so defensive about it.

[PeregrineV]

@Pere - You're voting Smargaret - why, did that vote come brand new to you and with new info from the flips?
Please.

Considering I figured Cxin was town and you thought he was scum, your information was updated.

I had Yates as a null read, what was your read on him? Was it updated?

[PeregrineV]

Considering I figured Cxin was town and you thought he was scum, your information was updated.

I had Yates as a null read, what was your read on him? Was it updated?

I had you or him as scum.
I had Yates as town.

Thankfully the flips totally rearranged my world.

I never got that you considered him town the way you argued with him. Do you state that anywhere?

[PeregrineV]

I never got that you considered him town the way you argued with him. Do you state that anywhere?

No. Neither do I state him as a scum read except in relation to a Cxin scum flip.
I also always spend a lot of time talking about reads with people without calling them scummy when I'm scumreading hem </sarcasm>

Thor, y u no reply to me

Because u jus joke reply, 5o Y botha?

I'll come back to this Monday or Tuesday.

[PeregrineV]

Prodded. Still here.

[PeregrineV]

@BRO - would you like to vote Pere? I would love to see you voting Pere.

Perhaps a complete reads list of who you think is town and who you think is scum would be beneficial to both of us. Aside from me, I'm note sure where you stand on any other player.

[PeregrineV]

That's because I don't have particularly strong opinions about the rest of the game because the game is filled with people not expressing many opinions at all.

Are you saying you scumuhunt people via thier opinions?

I think Crash is scummy, I think BRO and TSO are townish. Pretty much everyone else is in a muddle soup, and I could bother to apply a town or scum lean on them, but a single post could easily flip my opinions on them.

CTD is staying firmly in the null pile for now, esp after that Mastin game. Bro I found townie earlier, but every ISO re-read changes my view of him. TSO I find townish, but I think it's partly because he agrees about smargaret.

You have any Zek-based reads?

[PeregrineV]

That's because I don't have particularly strong opinions about the rest of the game because the game is filled with people not expressing many opinions at all.

Are you saying you scumuhunt people via their opinions?

That's because I don't have particularly strong opinions about the rest of the game because the game is filled with people not expressing many opinions at all.

Are you saying you scumuhunt people via thier opinions?

No, he assigns them a number and if it's prime, you're scum.

Come on, Pere.

Are you saying you don't?
Yes, I am very much saying that. I don't even understand why that would shock/confuse/surprise you.

Thor: I don't have strong opinions about the rest of the game because people not expressing many opinions.
Me: Are you saying you scumuhunt people via their opinions?
Thor: Yes. Don't you?

Actually, no. That's kind of stupid, unless there is a flip involved. Then it becomes an interactive tell.

The only other time it works is if you can see the logic behind the opinion. Since both scum and town can have opinions, but town is required to have opinions to scumhunt and scum has to at least fake them, your lack of reads on opinionless players is disturbing. And the fact that you are claiming that that is the sole source of your scumhunting is also disturbing.
And before you say "I never said that!":

That's because I don't have particularly strong opinions about the rest of the game because the game is filled with people not expressing many opinions at all.

[PeregrineV]

Though, for the mild mental amusement of batting you around for lulz;

1. It was indeed a misrep to suggest that's my only way of reading people, and I didn't say it.

856.

you didn't say "That's because I don't have particularly strong opinions about the rest of the game,

partially

because the game is filled with people not expressing many opinions at all."

You stated it in such a manner that your opinions of them come from their opinions.

2. You started your conversation of explaining to me about how opinions aren't a good scumhunting tool...by asking me my opinion on some players. Making your whole rigmarole look like a lie.

Good point. But, with a scum flip, previous opinions now become ---> interaction tells. And current opinions will become interaction tells. So yes, I'm hearing you say "I don;t want to create any interaction tells that can trace me back to scum."

Since you probably don't mean this, I'm asking you what you mean.

3. You blithely ignored that I have reads on over half of the living players regardless, and seemed to have no other point.

And it points out that you are reading Bulba and smargaret as null. and that shocks/confuses/surprises me.

Gawds, why will no one sheep me on you? I don't get it. I sort of hate all of the players in this game,a dn they are wusses about expressing their reads and doing "anything at all" is apparently anathema to them.

Tell me you did not just commit the "I hate this game" scumtell.

[PeregrineV]

Fine, then tell me you do not understand post 549.

Not your opinion of it, or whether you agree with it, but the basis behind the thoughts and summary.

[PeregrineV]

Penguin, the only way you have a scum game with me is if you're an alt. I haven't been scum since I started playing again, and I stopped before you joined.

CTD, weren't you putting together a case on me? Where is it?

PV is still misrepping. I responded to why I didn't question Zek. I had a townread on him. I was trying to get reads on the other players. I've said this multiple times now; I don't get why it's so hard to understand.

The hard to understand part?

Let's start at 95
96-99: Thor and XScorp talking

XScorpion seems town however wanting another town lynched seems mis-read

103-107: Thor and XScorp talking

Thor is very town. Porkens is sort of town
VOTE: Zekrom
Like 1/2 scumread 1/2 policy at this point. I also agree that Bulba looks too twitchy. XScorp I'm unsure of, and everyone else is doing fuckall for me to read them >:C

109-110:Thor and XScorp talking
111-117:Thor-Bro-Zek talking
118: Porkens

My reasoning wasn't totally clear. It was 3 am local time, in my defense.

Basically, there's a big mess that I wasn't really up to sorting through at 3 am between Thor, Porkens, and Bulbazak. It looks likely that one or more wagons could conceivably come out of that. If T/P/B are all town, then scum would like to encourage those wagons - and not draw a lot of attention to themselves and risk derailing the hypothetically building wagons by trying to start RQS once the game has actually begun. On the flip side, if any of T/P/B are scum, or are distancing, then presumably scum-Zek would know that and would have a planned out response, and I really, REALLY doubt that any entire scumteam would argue for randomly starting RQS. It's WIFOMy, but I don't see any reason why scum-Zek would play that way.

That said, given the lack of a daystart PM, it's probable that the list of currently-active players is disproportionately scummy. Presumably scum would have been told to stop talking in the qt, so they'd all be aware day had started while town players had no idea.

123-127: Porkens-Buba-Thor talking
128-138: Thor-Zek stuff
142-149 :Bulba-Porkens-Zek stuff
155-167- Thor-Zek-Porkens-Bulba

Thor - what's the difference between lynchbait and low-hanging fruit? Specifically re: your reply to me about cxin and your reply to Yates about Zek. I'd quote, but ipads are annoying and I don't feel like switching to the real computer.

Porkens - Do you still think Thor and Bulbazak are scum? Do you think Zek is scum with them? Why?

Bulbazak, though - I don't know that I'd call it a flinch per se, but definitely overly defensive. Do not like.

Zakk - anything else to say? Because calling someone out around one post when we have seven pages of actual stuff to go on (as opposec to questions about emotional state) and then nothing else? That's a bit fence sitty.

cxin - It means don't active lurk. If you're going to post, respond to the thread or actually draw conclusions, don't just post "OHAI, I'm here, nothing to say!". If you don't have an opinion, reread the thread and develop one. What is your read on Zek? In fact, who are your top three scumreads and why?

So, based on this timelime, I want to understand how you developed the Zekrom townread using any of his 18 posts prior to your post 119.

[PeregrineV]

@smaragaret- Part2 of the exercise is what about the others three players posting rang as scummy to your that they needed to be investigated MORE than town-Zek.

I feel we were reading the same thing, and you reached a puzzling conclusion. Until the zek-flip.

[PeregrineV]

Kind of looking things over but at home, so of course mafia takes a back seat.

@Thor-

The problem is I haven't decided if you are scum or not yet. Your Zekrom interactions point me towards no. But, your a savvy enough player to make it look that way, especially considering the play on Zekrom's side (I don't see him pushing his scumbuddy Thor unless it was planned, but even then, the type of pushing is almost nonsensical.)

Your tunneling ability is not a scumtell for you, per se, so I'm trying to get at the logic behind your tunneling and the logic behind your reads. But, your not a primarily logical-type player, so that's proving awfully difficult also.

If your town, the rest of town will townread you in hopes that you save the day and are right. Scum will townread you because, currently, your dead wrong.

If your scum, the rest of town will townread you in hopes that you are not scum and you will save the day. Your buddy will obliquely follow you, because he knows your not town. You will most likely defend your buddy, because I can't see you bussing after losing a member so early. But, if you do, will you do so directly?

So, if you want to do something that can easily clear up these questions, then that would be super.
Otherwise, since this is a Jason game, I have almost two weeks to keep the questions up that will answer my questions about you.

[PeregrineV]

@Bulba - take the above post for instance. He just wrote a lot. A *lot* of words. He actually said nothing. He even then ended it up with 'at least I have toime to keep working my scumhunting questions' while...oh, look, not actually asking me any questions.

It's all fake.

Your tunneling ability is not a scumtell for you, per se, so I'm trying to get at the logic behind your tunneling and the logic behind your reads.

So, if you want to do something that can easily clear up these questions, then that would be super.

[PeregrineV]

@smarg

- Do you feel your answers so far have adequately addressed 884 and 885, as to the specifics of those questions?

[PeregrineV]

@CTD

- I like the cut of your jib!!

Why are Bulba and Thor voting you, in your opinion?

[PeregrineV]

@Pere - as he answers that, why don't you tell me what you like from the CTD slot?

Relevant and clearly articulated posting.

Look at 830. Asked for clarification, and then asks you a question, and states why he is asking the question. Asks another question and then the reason why he has that question.

Look at 835. Asks another question. And points out the same issue in both Bulba and Penguin. This shows he is reading and is fully aware of the gamestate.

In 836, after you answered his question with a question while not answering it despite him stating the reason for the question, he rephrases the question with smaller breakdown components of the original question.

Etc.

[PeregrineV]

@CTD

- I like the cut of your jib!!

Why are Bulba and Thor voting you, in your opinion?

Two options for Bulba:
A He's scum
B He's misinterpreting my attempts to sort him as malicious (and may have other reasons)

Two options for Thor:
A He's scum
B He's misinterpreting my attempts to get him to reconsider his reads and my subsequent attempts to (re-)sort him as malicious and he also has a terrible read on my predecessor's play

Bulba's option B is easier to swallow than Thor's, so there's that.

Bulba is a pain to read sometimes, and I've been semi-skimming his recent stuff because his Zek interactions semi-cleared him as town for me. Maybe I'll go back and look him over while I wait for smargaret to answer.

I think I talked about Thor already. Somebody can't be scum for having the wrong reads, but willfully fighting against the understanding of those reads bothers me.

[PeregrineV]

I was hoping to catch up more, but there are some walls coming up. Look forward to reading them, but it will have to be later.

[PeregrineV]

I'll try to catch up some tomorrow, but out of town for the weekend.

@Mod- V/LA March 28-30.

[PeregrineV]

Bulba is town. Scum is probably antihero/PV; CTD looks like (wrong) town, even if that unvote was weird and scummy. Thor is town, but I'm less confident of this than I am in my Bulba read.

Penguin read?

[PeregrineV]

Back

[PeregrineV]

Still doing ISOs and stuff, but

@Thor-

this sounds like a compromise lynch

@Cxin - I have intent to hammer you, please claim.

I'm still okay with lynching Cxin. I'll give him till this evening to manage these reads he's going to post.
Then I'll Mjolnir the heck out of him regardless.

I no longer care about Cxin's reads, I actually suspect people are right about him being scum now.

Be interested in how Smargaret was not eligible for such an honor, but now that Anti-hero is in such a position, she now is, but Antihero is not.

[PeregrineV]

Scratch that, you must mean the Bulba vote, which happened on D1 and fits the textbook definition of a RVS vote. In Cxinlee's third post, he started blatantly not commenting by literally refusing a request to comment. Zekrom, by comparison started out looking like he was at least trying to appear useful by asking a lot of questions.

To be blunt, I don't see the distinction you are making at all, and if anything, your reasoning for defending Zekrom should have made you read Cxinlee as

even more

town than him.

I can't really reply to this. Obviously, I was wrong - all I can say is what I thought at the time.

what about the Penguin read?

[PeregrineV]

and I'm far more likely to flip on one of my strong-town reads than on one of PA, bro, and TSO, based on what happens at the end of the day and overnight. So essentially:

Town: Thor, Bulba, CTD
null, town->scum: PA, Bro, TSO
Scum: Antihero, PV

Both of your town reads are voting your other town read. Do you think Thor and bulba are just that bad at reading CTD-town.

And assume Antihero is lynched and flips scum. Since I know I'm not, and you claim your not, who is your next choice for his buddy?

[PeregrineV]

Antihero's buddy - depends on what happens overnight, but probably not CTD. I don't see CTDscum voting his last buddy when I'm just as viable a wagon.

So your answer is "not CTD"?

[PeregrineV]

Still doing ISOs and stuff, but

@Thor-

this sounds like a compromise lynch
[snip]
Be interested in how Smargaret was not eligible for such an honor, but now that Anti-hero is in such a position, she now is, but Antihero is not.

Um...random concept - I've not expressed any scum vibe towards Anti and have expressed it towards her?
It's a pretty crazy concept, I'll admit.

I would ask for a link to this expressed scum vibe, by it's apparently more protown to require all petitioners to dig through all your posts and extrapolate your reads and reasons from many different locations that for you to link to a single coherent post. But, just in case.

Can you link me to the post(s) by you that contain a Smargaret scumvibe?

[PeregrineV]

Also, agree with the Antihero-needs-to-claim thing. Consider this intent to hammer.

[PeregrineV]

Well, pretty much all he did was claim VT and then repeat a number of my reads.
I'll admit that tends to make me feel happy thoughts towards him.
We still have about 6 hours if people want to do a sudden spin desperation scramble no time for claim wagon on CTD.

Since that won't really happen, if you vote Smararet that will make it a real contest, no?

[PeregrineV]

Here and willing to give Anti the 3 hours remaining.

[PeregrineV]

OK, that works.

Vote: Antihero

[PeregrineV]

I can confirm I'm Quicksilver, Mason with Scarlet Witch/CTD (who is apparently my sister. Go figure).

[PeregrineV]

With that said, CTD can confirm that I pretty much suspect everyone for various reasons.

[PeregrineV]

We get anytime talk, but get charged extra if we type over 5000 words a day.

[PeregrineV]

I can kind of buy Bros role. Lately Jason's mini theme's have been running power-light (H2HFBYM- doc,cop, scumRB):http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p4921819

But, in a balanced sort of way.

It bugs me that he fullclaimed though. Why not try to draw the kill and make scum waste a shot?

[PeregrineV]

Would like to hear thoughts on why Porkens/Yates were killed.

[PeregrineV]

I don't have anything new to add to that conversation.

Can you link to the old stuff from you that is part of that conversation?

[PeregrineV]

This might be bias from the start of the game, but I'm thinking Smarg/Bulba at this point.

Where the fuck are p5 and CTD

We're here. We're discussing our various interpretations of day1.

[PeregrineV]

Peregrine, where the actual fuck are you? Get in here.

Out collecting Easter eggs. But I'm here now.

[PeregrineV]

In this case, I have reasoning for my strongest reads, but for some, like Smargaret, it's more of an impression I've gotten while going through the game, and I can't honestly tell you why. I wish I could, but I can't. There's something telling me she's likely to be town, and I can't figure out for the life of me what it is, and seeing as how I have several stronger scumspects, that's good enough for me. I won't be voting her, but I won't say that I'll cry if she gets lynched.

Not really. Still not interested in lynching her.

I have no clue on Smargaret. However, I wouldn't balk at her lynch, and if I get back, and no one is willing to lynch TSO, I'll compromise on her.

First, the fact that I can't make heads or tails of Smargaret doesn't mean I haven't analyzed her. Second, I feel that at this point in the game it's more beneficial to focus on my actual scumreads, since that will tell me more about this game than going after a non-scumread would.

Yes, except you conveniently left out the part where I said that didn't mean I hadn't done any analysis.

@Bulba

- based on your evolving smarg non-read, I would very much like to see all the details of your analysis you mention in 1360 & 1379.

[PeregrineV]

24 hours and 10 minutes later.

Hey Bulba, 1395.

[PeregrineV]

I would say I skimmed everything since my last post - but that would be a lie, since 'scrolling past without reading' isn't the same thing.

I think CTD's read on TSO/Thor is bad...but...meh, duh.
I think TSO still flapping about Thor/Smarg is bad...and also he keeps changing his story and is also talking Bulb/Smarg.
I would have opposed deadline extension.
Pere does need a prod though.

@Mod - requesting immediate Pere prod once the Easter v/la ends

Carrying on carrying on.

So is the scumteam, in your opinion, Bulba/TSO, Bulba/Smarg, TSO/smarg, or some other pair?

[PeregrineV]

So is the scumteam, in your opinion, Bulba/TSO, Bulba/Smarg, TSO/smarg, or some other pair?

I have openly claimed TSO/Smarg in thread. TSO has had many long rants about me doing so and it's the central basis of the current issue he has with me. I can provide a link if you need it, but I feel I've been pretty clear on my thoughts.

Just want to trace the evolution from the game start.

[PeregrineV]

Vote: Bulbazak

3 hours to deadline

[PeregrineV]

I'm leaning towards TSO. Smargaret is second choice. Bulba's recent posting has been solid and I think I buy both his defense and his push against TSO. Will do some quick rereading and make a decision afterwards.

If Pere's vote had more conviction, I'd stick with his read, but I don't sense much confidence from him.

unvote

Well, Bulba's answer kind of sucked, but arguning over the details of it's suckiness seemed futile.

I mainly looked over VC information when I was trying to see if Thor would switch over to TSO. Smargaret was on every town wagon. However, I'm not sure how accurate VCA can be with only 3 wagons to look at. I also looked at the differences between her stance on Zekrom and TSO's. Her stance shows a lot of uncertainty, and you can see her trying to figure things out. There's a lot of questions to various players. She looked like she was trying to use the day as best as she could to figure the game out, which makes me lean town. Finally, TSO's recent attempts to try to link a Smargaret town flip to me being scum is making me think she might be town after all.

I don't recall any use of VC info by Bulba this game. Possibly ever, but let's stick to this game.

Smarg on every town wagon would seem to indicate scum, unless the stregnth/rationale/reasoning of her scumread convictions were so great as to ensure she was on every town lynch. I don't recall reading that.

Comparing TSO stance to Smarg stance was not the actual assignment. I wanted to see analysis of Smarg, not some attempt to tie her to some unknwon player's alignment. Weak attempt and it avoids the issue.

Smarg had no uncertainty. She calls Zekrom town, then proceeds to march onto Porkens, Thor & whoever. I cannot see her trying to figure things out, which was one of the major reasons I was scumreading her.

I don't recall smarg asking anyone shit, except to browbeat on town-cxin for his blatant refusal to give reads he said he didn't have.

smarg was not using the day to figure things out. She has less posts than any living player, and less than most dead ones, and less than the mod.

Another TSO slam which is not smarg analysis.

But, I think this is all pretty self-evident, too.

[PeregrineV]

@Pere - are you even still around?

Yep.

[PeregrineV]

7 minutes.

TSO is like not a very preferred lynch today.....

[PeregrineV]

6.

[PeregrineV]

4.

[PeregrineV]

Do not hammer me.

Are you scum?

[PeregrineV]

2

[PeregrineV]

1.

[PeregrineV]

Aw well.

[PeregrineV]

You have 30 seconds, and there is not enough votes.

[PeregrineV]

Though CTD is an idiot for switching.

But he's my sister/town. If one of us dies, you got to sheep the other tomorrow.

It takes 4.

[PeregrineV]

Vote: Bulbazak

Bro-you-me makes 3

[PeregrineV]

WHAT

No Lynch, then.

Deadline already expired, no one was lynched.

[PeregrineV]

Lynch thor tomorrow. He failed to hammer his second suspect. I'm only mildly upset with pere, we failed to communicate well this day phase.

Yes, Thor failed to lynch his second suspect...as did you.
Clearly we are both scum.

You know that is argumentative, since he can't be scum.

[PeregrineV]

I really hope the Masons are talking up a feth storm in their QT.

We are. It's frightening.

[PeregrineV]

WE haven't forgotten.

Teams- we are looking at the possibility of each grouping.
TSO/Thor
TSO/smarg
Thor/Bulba
Bulba/smarg
Thor/smarg

Thoughts?

[PeregrineV]

@Thor

- I actually just missed that, but why not Bulba/TSO?
939
953

Lack of smargaret mislynch.

[PeregrineV]

Vote: Thor

Coaching/interactions with Zekrom day1. He attacked you as the "safe" choice as his scumbuddy. But something went wrong and Zekrom kept being scummy. And he pretty much didn't try to change anyone's mind as his votes built.

Scumread on TSO since 225, yet never a vote him. The whole game.

Connections that were obvious to me being blatantly overlooked by you.

Arguing semantics while ignoring the spirit of the conversation.

Etc.

[PeregrineV]

And, for the record, if I'm not scum - scum will win soon.
Hint: scum will win soon.
Additional hint: I still think the town is playing poorly, and I'll even toss myself in there for that batch because I have a bad attitude at this stage also.
Final hint: I don't care.

Yes, but indecision was hurting us. So we are moving on.

Final reads?

[PeregrineV]

“It's not what you have on the outside that glitters in light, it's what you have on the inside that shines in the dark.”

Unvote
Vote: Thor665

Is that game?

[PeregrineV]

I'm afraid it is.

Farts.

You and Bulba or smarg?

[PeregrineV]

I'd be interested, though, in who you think my partner is.

We covered all the scenarios, so it could be anyone. If I have time I'll go back and look to see who makes MORE sense.

[PeregrineV]

Such a shame no one hammered TSO yesterday.

Incredibly frustrating game. Congrats scum, I guess.

I know, I should have.

[PeregrineV]

Checkmate

[PeregrineV]

Your play got bad after we mass claimed and it was never great to begin with. Your crusade against us on D3 was one of the most frustrating things I've ever had to deal with in a game of mafia. Granted, no one in the town had very good reads prior to mass claim. Bro arguably came closest having zoned in on Bulba, but he was snowed by TSO.

It is not the first time I noticed a Mason connection and mistook it for a scum connection - I do not think that is actually bad play on my part, I think that is good scumhunting regardless that it ends up being anti-town. It's just a side effect of what Masons look like.

I am not against you calling my play bad as long as you agree that you and Pere showed bad play too. If you deny this then I refuse to accept my play as bad either.

I easily accept my play as bad. This is evidenced by 2 things.

Did I win?
No.

Did I, as town, get more reads right than I got wrong?
No.

[PeregrineV]

Mafia QT

Witness TSO freaking out during the last dayphase. I almost thought I'd have to sedate him.

/m70....lol

[PeregrineV]

Just out of interest, what themes would you like to see me run in the future? I have a few ideas

You could be anyone II
Power Rangers - Legends War
Soccer Mafia
Lost
Resident Evil

Lost!