Mini 1567 - Such Unusual Pretermen... ...Evil Too!

[Formerfish]

Vote who

Role fishing with that obvi fake tracker claim.

[Formerfish]

Vote who

Role fishing with that obvi fake tracker claim.

Why did you ignore a page-plus of not-RVS discussion and drop an RVS vote?

Cause I was taking a piss at work and popped into the thread real quick. Also, I don't always put much stock in a game until it gets past page 5.

[Formerfish]

I'm dealing with some pretty heavy personal shit right now. I'll be back in a day or two.

[Formerfish]

Intent to hammer the guilty. I like who, he seems on the level. Absolutely no scum would out themselves day 1 to lead a mislynch.

[Formerfish]

Unvote

Didn't realize anyone would actually look at Who right now. Silly people.

[Formerfish]

I'm not entirely active in the thread right now and was surprised to see that I was part of a semi legit wagon.

[Formerfish]

Could someone explain a gunsmith guilty for me?

[Formerfish]

vezo, so in your opinion the optimal play here is to leave scumJosh alive and lynch townWho because he has been basically vanillized?

Who, does anything you got about the switch give you any info on what happened?

[Formerfish]

I don't give a shit if I'm not impressing anyone. We basically had a guilty all day yesterday and before I had much of a chance to do anything the day was over. At this point I think the best thing we can do is go back and see who stuck up for josh in anyway, like seeing who voted Who after he claimed. I would hazard a guess that one of them are scum trying to discredit the guilty to save a scumbag from a d1 lynch.

[Formerfish]

That would be you, Josh, and vezok.

Now what?

Do you selectively read usually? I voted for Who during rvs, and then unvoted after the guilty. I guess my idea isn'tgoing tto go anywhere though since the only other person to vote Who was night shot. Guess it wasn't that bad of a shot when you think about it.

[Formerfish]

Are we ignoring Who's claim on changing roles?

[Formerfish]

I am inclined to believe something happened with him. I know that the role I chose has nothing to do with my role pm. I have to believe that we had a night startfor a reason, and his stated original role, and what happened to him would fit well with a n0. I don't know if alignment changes could happen here, was this a bastard game when it was put out there?

[Formerfish]

Actually, the more I think about it the more I believe that alignment isn't something that would change. It would have potential to break the game in such q fashion that one scum switched to town would probably be game over. So it looks like it is going to cone down to whether you believe that scum would come out of the gates bussing one of their own for no discernible reason. I do not think they would do that here without a predicating event.

[Formerfish]

Just ran through Kagamis iso and I'm not seeing whatever you are seeing.

[Formerfish]

I would fully assume that scum would be on a guilty. It's much harder to explain being off a guilty lynch than being on a guilty mislynch. Look at the first 2 lynches in the completed Touhou game for examples.

[Formerfish]

I hate weekend on this site. The time where I am able to post more and everyone posts less.

[Formerfish]

You seem to be on the level, I've figured out I play better with someone else. Where do you think we should focus our attention?

[Formerfish]

I missed where you were in giests fery, zephyrus I don't really have an issue with looking into, something he did pinged me weirdly. I still don't know what you are seeing with Kagami though, I isoed her and can't find much I would normally find scummy.

[Formerfish]

I don't have all that much experience with Kagami, just from Touhou I think.

[Formerfish]

Well if we aren't scumhunting in the correct method, do you have something you'd like to share with the class?

[Formerfish]

I'm fine with a mass claim, I'm curious to figure out the mechanic myself. It could also help us nail down Who's alignment.

[Formerfish]

FEA?

[Formerfish]

That's a pretty short read...

Seriously though, Jesus.

[Formerfish]

Vote Count Nine.Five: Somebody's no longer alive.

Josh_B (7) - Cho, MTD, Juls, Kagami, Nobody Special, geists, Zephyrus
Who (2)- Josh_B, vezokpiraka

Not Voting: PhDScar, Belisarius, FormerFish, Who

With Thirteen alive, it is Seven to lynch

(expired on 2014-05-10 13:21:24)

Alright, so here us the lynch vc. Josh and vezo are dead, so that avenue is closed. It does concern me a little that Who isn't on the lynch that his guilty started, but I'd have to look at the course of events to figure out why. I don't remember PhD at all, and Beli gets my benefit of the doubtfor now. I am not worried about myself.

If we are following the normal scum rules we are looking at 3, right? So who on the lynch is bussing for town cred?

[Formerfish]

Are you volunteering? That's mighty white of you.

[Formerfish]

Because you are scum with Kagami and are showing solidarity to the cause?

[Formerfish]

The fact that you were on the lynch therefore could be scum? I've already pointed out a game where something very similar happened. Are you saying that I am wrong to assume scum on the lynch of a guilited buddy?

[Formerfish]

Alright, enough with this shit. Cho, you have experience with me that I am unaware of that would give you a baseline on what sounds genuine? No, get to stepping and come at me with some real fucking reasons.

Kagami and Nobody, same goes for you. You want to engage me so I can take your arguments apart, or are you just going to snipe from a distance and avoid coming directly to my door.

The game is stagnant right now, I'm trying to figure out where to go from here. Looking at the composition of a successful wagon on guiltied scum seems like a damn good place to start when I just played a game where this happened. You know who was on a good lynch in that game, scum looking to get easy town cred from being on the lynch.

If you guys have an issue with the line of discussion I am persuing then by all means let's talk about your ideas, oh yeah that's right you guys aren't doing much to advance the game other than voting me for... reasons.

[Formerfish]

@Formerfish - If you are so concerned with who was on the josh wagon, why did you ignore my point about Zephyrus and the hammer? You mentioned previously he "pinged" you weirdly. Can you explain that?

Didn't ignore, missed it. Most of my play these days is done on my phone at work, so yeah. I actually think that Zephyrus is scum mostly for the hammer. Think about it, your buddy is getting strung up for a righteous guilty and you want to end the day as quickly as possible so that nothing else comes out by accident from him or one of the other scum. This is why caught scum will sometimes self hammer. So you want the rest of what pinged me about Zep, let's take a look at his entire iso.

I dont remember signing up for this... hm

No rvs vote attached to a weak sauce opener.

RVS

VOTE: Cho

Why announce it was RVS? And I would like to look at some of his other games to see how he usually opens as scum.

@Zeph, why state that it is RVS?

Why do you ask? Am I incorrect?

Empty post. And he doesn't even answer the question, just sidesteps it.

Why do you ask? Am I incorrect?

I ask because it was awkward and void of a reason. I realize RVS is usually ridiculous but it struck me as odd.

Most people do it D1...

Again empty. Most people do random vote day 1, not many announce them as rvs votes, is he seriously not getting why people took a sideways glance at him?

That doesn't make sense. You voted kagami for saying her role didn't match her pick and now you are saying your role doesn't match your pick.

my role matches my random unknown character pick.

Wait it was random? I thought you chose your character

Complete lack of understanding to the game state. Also sounds like he was trying to say his role matched what he sent in. Mine doesn't at all and I have a town role pm, guess the scum ones are different.

Why are we mass claiming tomorrow?

Empty.

A mass claim would probably be helpful.

Says the scum.

Hear hear

Empty. And no vote for someone he just agreed was scum.

Let's move onto the next day

UNVOTE: Cho

VOTE: Josh_B

"Well, guess there is no saving my scumbuddy, he sure is fucked, let's put him out of his misery."

Does anyone actually know the setup and how many roles their are? I can't seem to find it or it was provided.

Seeing as Josh B was scum, the people who didn't vote for him - Not Voting: PhDScar, Belisarius, FormerFish, Who. Thats assuming that their was no bussing involved and scum wasn't on the Josh B wagon. Thoughts?

Fishing at worst, and idiocy at best. Also slyly implying that we should only look at people off the lynch.

Leaning Scum

Nobody Special - Absolutely nothing out of him day 1. Lots of conversation but he just voted more-or-less for Josh. Felt like scum resigned to partner getting lynched.
Zephyrus - Didn't like his RVS. Has stuck in my head ever since. Didn't contribute much to day 1 and the hammer felt off. Plus playing the confusion-card so far today.

Vote: Zephyrus

So you believe I hammer my scum buddy? Ok...

Long answer: you have quite the impressive testicular fortitude to imply that hammering a scum buddy is an asinine idea and that people who accuse you of doing so should feel bad about themselves. The hammer is exactly where I would expect scum to be on a lynch like that. The shear fact that you reply as obtusely as you did sealed your fate in my eyes.
Short answer: Yes, do I think you hammered your buddy.

Any questions?

[Formerfish]

Scratch the first post he made about not remembering he'd signed up, that post was made pregame. Doesn't change anything though.

[Formerfish]

Vote Zep

I forgot to do this somehow.

[Formerfish]

I will address the slanderous statements from Kagami when I get home. Nobody Special doesn't get a reply yet because he felt it more appropriate to defend himself against LML before replying to MTDs question. I also went back to examine Who during the lynch, I'll go into that too.

[Formerfish]

I'm going to start last first, take the first in the middle, and then I probably won't even talk about NS because seriously, fuck that guy.

Am I voting who?
I should.

vote who

The worst play here is to lynch Josh. If who by some miracle is town he isn't a gunsmith anymore

Why is the worst play to lynch Josh, the guilty scum?

Also, UNVOTE:
Some people have said there are things they want to talk about before the day is over, and this prevents him from self-hammering.

So this is where Who unvotes, and given reason seems legit. This post was made 10 posts after Kagami and Nobody Special come in back to back within 25 minutes of each other to naked vote Josh. And I know, I know, Josh had a guilty on him but those votes put him at l-2 and l-1 respectively. Who's unvote on the back of those votes to continue discussion makes sense.

Geist votes for Josh a few pages later, and puts him back at l-1. Juls makes a comment about what else we could be waiting for before someone hammers Josh, and without giving anyone a chance to say anything else Zep hammers.

Is there anything inherently scummy with peoples votes? Nah, could go either way, but coupled with other things shit gets more murky. Still think that Zep showed his scumass here and i plan to... well you can guess where I am going with that one.

On to Kagami! I think Lil' Wayne said it best with "Scum talking about me, but they ain't talking it at me."

Spoiler: 328

Vote Count Nine.Five: Somebody's no longer alive.

Josh_B (7) - Cho, MTD, Juls, Kagami, Nobody Special, geists, Zephyrus
Who (2)- Josh_B, vezokpiraka

Not Voting: PhDScar, Belisarius, FormerFish, Who

With Thirteen alive, it is Seven to lynch

(expired on 2014-05-10 13:21:24)

Alright, so here us the lynch vc. Josh and vezo are dead, so that avenue is closed. It does concern me a little that Who isn't on the lynch that his guilty started, but I'd have to look at the course of events to figure out why. I don't remember PhD at all, and Beli gets my benefit of the doubtfor now. I am not worried about myself.

If we are following the normal scum rules we are looking at 3, right? So who on the lynch is bussing for town cred?

This is scummy for many reasons.

It strongly advocates for lynching among the group of players that the poster is not a part of. FF seems to believe that both scum are on the wagon, despite the fact that everyone off the wagon is null/scummy, except Who, the one off-wagon player he tries to paint as suspicious.

The reasons for phd, beli, and himself not being scum feel forced, as does the "Are there 3 scum?"

---

342, however, does present a reasonable argument. I'm a little leery about it, though, since it feels set up by 328.

Re: mass-claim, I still question whether it's a good idea. The games that can be broken by early mass-claim are almost exclusively role-madness, in which the scum have to claim roles, and their role/actions can be evaluated or proven. That said, it sounds like nati has more information than I do about this game, so maybe it's ok.

Ok, first things first. It seems that you are calling it scummy in one sense because I am not including myself in the could be scum category. Why the fuck would I think I was scum, or could be scum. This is possibly one of the stupidest things I have ever seen in a game of mafia, well other than scum saying that they could be scum in a 1v1 but that's another story. Back to business. Could you please point out where I was

strongly advocating

the lynch of anyone? No, didn't think so because that never happened, so misrep #1. Next untruth is that I believe that both scum are on the wagon. Point out where I said this. Nope? Misrep #2. Forced reasons? Who fucking started and fueled the wagon only to hop off before it jumped the gorge. I even stated that I would have to go back to look at the circumstances. PhD I stated that I couldn't remember him even playing, I guess in your world not remembering someone=town read? Beli could be scum, but I am willing to let him live a little. I just played a game with Beli as non-town and I am trying to figure out how to read him, I need a bit more time on that one. And myself, well you fucking got me, I suspect that my actual role pm may be scum, but I am having a hard time reading myself as well.

Misrep #3 is that I was asking about the number of scum. Someone just did the same thing to me when discussing possible setups in a mini normal game. In a 13 player game there is usually 3 nontown roles. I think that is pretty standard and I was asking more of a rhetorical question.

So strike 3 and you're fucking out. As soon as I get my lynch on Zep through, I am coming straight for your ass with some of this... again I think you know where this is going.

And I will give a minute of my time to NS. I call you out in #334 and again in #339. MTD does the same in #351. LML says that the wording of a post of yours from page 4 is bugging him and you come running in to ask him to go on about his view point on you from a mostly innocuous post from d1. Why are you so concerned with how he saw that post, yet you say shit in response to 2 players calling you out by name with reasons?

[Formerfish]

The fact that it was called "Night 0" and not simply "Pregame" is another compelling case for Who-town. Aside from the clearer idea that he probably wouldn't have bussed so early on.

Are you part parrot and can't help but echo posts already made, or is this a prime example of what posting to post looks like? Offer up some unique perspectives and don't take us all the way down wifom lane with reasoning that should illustrate the exact thought process behind someones actions

formerfish, zeph could be derptown, could be scum. Whatever he is, he's going down before too long in this game.

Kagami on the other hand could lurk, smarm and slime her way to LYLO.

I really want her gone today.

Fuck it.

unvote

Vote Kagami

Your reads were shit in Touhou, and I think your reason for voting me here along with the misreps on a fairly simple post show that you are scum and need to hang. Keep your vote on me though, I think its cute.

[Formerfish]

I'd rather type up a quick game-related blurb than simply say "prod dodge". I'm busy.

I'd rather you prod dodge like normal people do rather than try to appear like you are actually paying attention to the game and providing insight. It comes off as try hard, and scum engage in more try hard activities than town.

If you are busy, why are you so concerened with what is currently happening in thread?

[Formerfish]

FFish, I'll answer you eventually, but for now I'm having fun watching you flail and dig your hole deeper.

Apparently we have very different definitions of flail. And here I thought I was making coherent cases against people I think are acting scummy, bringing up salient points against them and serial stomping anything brought up against me.

Stop stalling and come correct son.

[Formerfish]

NS, I need you to go into more detail.

[Formerfish]

I'm not sure how exactly to go about asking questions without revealing too much. Needless to say, I question the validity of your claim.

[Formerfish]

I would like to wait for NS to post, seeing as I've already started this line of questioning, I'd like to finish it.

[Formerfish]

I sent in Fitzwilliam Darcy from Pride & Prejudice (don't judge me), I am not that character. In fact I do not have a name, only a role. In flux. Once a night I can target a player and their role changes. That is why Who changed n0. I fucked up and forgot to send in a pick for n1 because of work. I was going to target Who again to mess with him a bit though. I win when all scum has been eliminated and at least one town player remains.

[Formerfish]

He was last on the player list, and I have played with him before. Nothing other than that. Flavor wise, NS didn't include a wincon, so I can't really tell you.

It isn't that I didn't go along with the Who guilty, and my targeting him had nothing to do with how much I believed him. I do recalling saying that I believed Who was town, and that his transformation would have no bearing on his alignment, and that I believed that there was no way alignment would change (think about it, if I targeted a scum player and they suddenly became town they could just out the rest of the scum team to an easy victory).

Popcorn to Cho.

[Formerfish]

I don't think its a toggle, it says their role will be transformed. I asked if I could target the same person over and over and was told yes.

Flavor does not match. I don't have a gun or anything that switches them, they just transform when I target them.

p-edit- not sure, I never thought to ask.

[Formerfish]

Who became a character after I targeted him, lets ask lowercase.

[Formerfish]

I know its the weekend and for some odd reason activity from just about everyone drops to nothing, but can we please get something going on here? We are mid mass claim and we have completely stalled.

@Mod

- can we please get a prod on Zep?

@Everyone else- we could just speed lynch his scum ass right here. Someone look at my case on him and tell me that isn't scum based.

[Formerfish]

Its kinda suspect to you that I would like to lynch one of my scum reads, someone I've laid out a logical legit case against, a case that no one has even really attempted to poke any holes in? That is suspect to you? Its suspect to me that Zep gives dark after the hell I brought to his front door, yet he signed in this morning.

[Formerfish]

Can we get a prod on Zep? Hes signed in multiple time over the last few days yet can't seem to post.

[Formerfish]

Zep 7 days 10 hours
NS 3 days 7 hours
LC 3 days 3 hours
Cho 2 days 6 hours
Emp 2 days 5 hours

This is a prime example of the apathy that kills town. Four of the eleven left alive can't be bothered to post, and our Mod isn't even around to get prods out or to replace people into the game who will actually play. Guess its a good thing we still have 4 days and change for this period. Maybe one of the times Zep signs in he will actually come in here and fucking play. And whoever is suspect of me for calling for his head, fuck off. Heat came down all around him and he has flaked, town doesn't flake with that kind of pressure, they flail. Dude is fucking scum and needs to hang. Kagami probably is too, so I am stuck in a pickle.

[Formerfish]

I said I was in a pickle. I feel like Kagami has a good chance of flipping scum as well. And I'm not thrilled that I call you guys out by name and you come swooping in. Feels like bussidying.

[Formerfish]

Also, you guys aren't picking shit for me. Just saying.

Pedit- buddying and bussing yes. And yes the people who haven't been active. I like you geists, I wouldn't say a thing against you right now.

[Formerfish]

Cho- If you felt this way about my case, why wait til now to vote?

NS- mostly the same question. You had your vote on me til now. Why did it take you this long to switch?

Kagami- why you vote parkin bro? You still think I'm scum? I'm still waiting for you to come correct.

At everyone it seems like we have a lot of vts here. Anyone else play we the purple? I'm a bit drunk now and can't remember. That game had a mechanic where vts were transformed into PRS each night. I am now officially suspect of LC and NS since one has claimed to have a role prior to my visit and the other is claiming a worse version of my role.

Paranoia is strong in me right now. I would like to finish the mass claim before anything else happens. Failure to do so will result in great anger.

[Formerfish]

Still based off one post where you misrep me multiple times?

And can you show me where you gave Zep the same kind of attention for suggesting to lynch out of those who were off the Josh wagon, basically ignoring those who were on it?

[Formerfish]

So the fact that he acted like anyone who suggested he hammered scum as scum was a crazy person is good with you?

And what other reasons do you suspect me? I'd love to hear them. I have a nice pot of camomile tea brewing and some crumpets if you are interested.

[Formerfish]

So everyone is vt except me, lc and ns?

lc is claiming gunsmith n0, and is planning to use doc or track tonight. All roles that can be easily faked. Claim isn't making sense with new info, same thing happened in WTP when Nati claimed vig before mass claim.

Also, NS is probably scum.

Unvote

[Formerfish]

Yes, that is where evidence is pointing right now.

[Formerfish]

NS and my own roles are too similar to both be town, his is worded oddly compared to mine, and he failed to include a town wincon. Why? Because he didn't get one.

Pedit: How does it make sense? Because how would you know what the town make up would be? I propose that Who actually did bus day 1 for all the towncred he cashed in on and for the conversation we are having right now. I know that your role changed, but I have no idea from what to what and I have already said that I highly doubt that alignment would change as well. So you started as scum, and stayed scum. How do you explain that there are 2 roles that change people, everyone else being a goon or vanilla, except for you? It is very easy for me to believe that an investigative role would be lying if I don't fully believe they were that investigative role.

[Formerfish]

Cho, I am not saying that I am 100% sure of anything right now. New information has come out, and it needs to be evaluated in light of the totality of the situation. Ignoring the fact that it doesn't make sense to have no other PRs except for the one that outed scum day 1 for and easy town card would be asinine. I am not ready for a lynch yet and would like to get some actual discussion going on what other people think now that we have finished our mass claim.

[Formerfish]

@Nati

- wanna weigh in on the similarities between this game and WTP? I've mentioned it once or twice and even him by name, yet no comparison, or even acknowledgement, has been made.

[Formerfish]

I replaced into a 130 pages game without any prep only to be lynched within 2 pages. And Zep could legit be town here. I would love to lead a lynch on NS based off set up spec but I doubt I'd get much support there. Or for LC for similar reasons.

[Formerfish]

Didn't NS say he could target himself, how would that work with being able to pass it on?

[Formerfish]

And Kagami, for having tabled your read on me for the time being, you still have your vote parked on me.

[Formerfish]

Didn't NS say he could target himself, how would that work with being able to pass it on?

Yes, I can target myself; I still have to pass it to someone else. (I think.....)

@Mod: Can I pass my doohickey to myself, or does it have go to a different player?

Also,

unvote

I feel like there shouldn't be any ambiguity here with your role. Are you trying to tell us that your actions aren't well defined in your PM?

[Formerfish]

Vote NS

His claim is probably legit, with one small detail changed. The guy is scum through and through. Let's kill this with fire.

[Formerfish]

Well, except for the whole passing thing. And the batteryless zapper. And no wincon. And hes scum.

[Formerfish]

He hasn't even explained exactly what it is. His role involves a zapper of some sorts, that it missing a battery. He can transform someone into a beast. He has to pass along the zapper. He can target dead people. He can target himself. Does that mean the zapper is separate from his transformative action or is it involved? If he targets himself how does the zapper get transferred? Does he pick two targets?

His role doesn't make sense with mine. I know my alignment, figuring out his would tell us a lot. Like how he could be tied with LC if that is the case. We had a N0 that the scum could have hatched the whole plan and it played out perfectly until now. NS made a choice to out his role because he knows that there is enough ambiguity with it to sound like it could possibly be town. I will point out once again that he failed to include a wincon with his claim because he had no idea what a town wincon in this game looked like.

[Formerfish]

I would like to lynch NS. Based on claim, setup spec, and a general lack of play from him. All he has done today is defend his role and call himself town. Multiple times he has been addressed about his lack of hunting and yet he still sits in the shadows without really taking a stand or making his reads known. Anyone else think that he is trying to ride out the day without saying anything that will make it obvious that he should be today's lynch?

[Formerfish]

There are like 3 people in this game not acting scummy as fuck. Can we just drop a nuke on the game and kill everyone?

[Formerfish]

I was counting myself, geists and juls. Everyone else is on varying degrees of the scum scale. Which does worry me a little bit. I am fairly sure that NS doesn't make sense with me being here. Why would town have two roles that transform people? And where is the battery?

[Formerfish]

I'm also not a huge fan of NS saying "lol guyz, I didn't look at my role pm to see exactly what my abilities were or how they work even though I already claimed, btw I am totally town because I said I was town earlier, here is my wincon that i copied straight from FFs claim." There is too much unexplained and nonsensical about his role.

[Formerfish]

No: using it and passing it are separate actions. I can pass it without using it, but if I use it I

must

pass it.

And let me ask you this: If it's a good thing to have in the game, are you all willing to lynch me and remove it?

Reads coming in a few minutes.

When was it decided that it is definitely a good thing to have around? You haven't used it yet and said yourself that you don't exactly know what is going to happen when you do. So now we should just believe that it is a positive thing to have around? You are making a lot of self indulgent posts this game.

[Formerfish]

Sorry, got waylaid.

geists -- Mostly town, a couple reservations.

Kagami -- Almost assuredly town. I recently did a fairly deep (for me) metadive on her for a different game.

Zephyrus -- Well, you know, null.

FormerFish -- I am trying (really, I am) not to equate FFish's attitude with his alignment. However, even with a lot of effort, I still have an underlying scumread. HOWEVER, I do recall that something happened that made me convert him to town. I'd have to look it up.

Cho -- Too sparse to tell. Is it scum, hiding? Is it newbtown, testing the waters?

MTD -- Mostly town.

LoudmouthLee -- Reads fairly town, more or less.

Belisarius -- Based solely on number of posts, I'm leaning scum.

Juls -- Solid town.

Lowercase -- While I was pretty set on Who being town, Lowercase has actually degraded that read. Nullish-scum.

So this boils down to:

Town- Geists, Kagami, MTD, LML, Juls
Null- Zephyer, Formerfish, Cho
Scumish- Beli, LC

And your reasoning for me is because of my attitude? Can you explain that, cause it sounds a lot like you don't like the fact that I don't explicitly believe your claim as gospel and that I want you to hang.

You give two scum leans at best which this far into the game frankly just isn't going to fucking cut it. Beli for number of posts especially, since when does activity dictate alignment. Added to the fact that you call MTD mostly town and he has less posts. Not even going to mention your null read on a dead slot with a grand total of what 11 posts. If you wanted to say content or contributions that is a different story, but you didn't day that.

Walk me through what changed your mind on LC.

[Formerfish]

And now we fall into the weekend lulls.

[Formerfish]

Man it sure would be nice if NS would show up, I don't know, any fucking time to discuss his reads list. I know that I have posed a couple of questions, but hell I should be used to getting ignored by now. That's what scum does best right? Ignore salient arguments and lines of questioning. Letting other people make their arguments for them (Looking at you here Kagami).

Cho you could play too.

[Formerfish]

Well our next deadline is 14 hours away and still no replacement....

Mod: Another extension?

What other option would we have? And why is it so hard to find a replacement right now? I have never seen a slot AIT this long unfilled.

I'm quite annoyed at this game.

Agreed. This is the type of game scum loves. So much shiny stuff to distract town, and a built in excuse to not. E active.

[Formerfish]

There is other scum, but no one wants to compromise right now. How about we post our top 3 scum reads? I'll even go first.

NS- I do not see our roles coexisting as town. Flat out do not. I think he omitted a wincon to avoid being obvious scum, and I wish I had had the forethought to misword my wincon since I've been the only person to say it. His reads list is abismal. Like the most scummy reads list that ever read listed.

LC- setup spec and claim. No one else has had a role except for NS, LC and myself. Also, bus cred.

Kagami/Zep- you guys are on equal footing now.

[Formerfish]

Yeah, I think you guys are making a bad choice.

[Formerfish]

Highly unlikely that there is one scum left. LCs defense of his vote is shit, and he's probably NSs scum buddy. NSs vote is shitty too.

[Formerfish]

Its just that I am pro bay going to die tonight. I'm not ready to go yet, there is so much I haven't done, so many places I haven't seen, scum I haven't convinced everyone to lynch yet.

Goodbye cruel world.

[Formerfish]

Well then its NS and LC is just an ass.

[Formerfish]

You're right! Why track one of the two people who have claimed actions? I mean its not like someone could be tracked to a kill or caught in a lie when they reveal who they visited. Track a vt, that is the best choice to make.

[Formerfish]

Scum team is lc and ns, bank it.

[Formerfish]

I am a role transformer
NS switches people with things from another dimension and has a gun to pass on.
LC started as a gunsmith, was transformed into a protect/investigation role that increases in power each day he holds off on using it.
Everyone else has claimed vt.

[Formerfish]

NS switches people with things from another dimension and has a gun to pass on.

No, no, NO. FFS, do you people not

read

the words I type?

I have a gun. It requires a battery, which

I do not have.

Also (differently, separately,

not the fucking gun),

I have a Transformer that makes people into a thing from another dimension.

Last night, I used it on myself, and became Mr.Darcy (one of my picks). I am still Town. Also, apparently, I have a sort-of almost-but-slightly-different PGO ability.

I passed it to Juls.

I'm calling bullshit on this. You became Mr. Darcy? Like the main guy from Pride & Prejudice? The same guy I had sent in as my choice? You need to die and I am going to help you get there.

Vote Nobody Special

[Formerfish]

My role pm doesn't state that I can. It only says that I can target someone else. I've asked if I can target the same person more than once and was told yes, and if my ability would affect dead people and was told no.

[Formerfish]

You know, if this was a large game based off a smaller sample set I wouldn't make as big of a deal of it. However, this is a small game with 2 large catalogs of works to draw inspiration from. I replaced into this game prestart and was told to send in one character. I sent in Darcy, and have already mentioned that in this thread. Do you not think it is just a slight bit odd that I named my choice pages ago, and you didn't blink an eye when you became him?

[Formerfish]

That's fine, because it actually doesn't matter if you remember. Iso me and Ctrl f Darcy, you'll see it with my claim. You know where I full claimed everything. The sane post you copy and pasted the town win con from.

[Formerfish]

I am glad that you are turning this into a 1v1 though, especially after saying you had scum read me, but then read something that showed you I was town which is magically not mentioned. So you OMGUS is duly noted and the 1v1 is accepted.

All other players take note. Its either him or me today. Take sides now.

[Formerfish]

Sorry, got waylaid.

geists -- Mostly town, a couple reservations.

Kagami -- Almost assuredly town. I recently did a fairly deep (for me) metadive on her for a different game.

Zephyrus -- Well, you know, null.

FormerFish -- I am trying (really, I am) not to equate FFish's attitude with his alignment. However, even with a lot of effort, I still have an underlying scumread. HOWEVER, I do recall that something happened that made me convert him to town. I'd have to look it up.

Cho -- Too sparse to tell. Is it scum, hiding? Is it newbtown, testing the waters?

MTD -- Mostly town.

LoudmouthLee -- Reads fairly town, more or less.

Belisarius -- Based solely on number of posts, I'm leaning scum.

Juls -- Solid town.

Lowercase -- While I was pretty set on Who being town, Lowercase has actually degraded that read. Nullish-scum.

Sorry, got waylaid.

geists -- Mostly town, a couple reservations.

Kagami -- Almost assuredly town. I recently did a fairly deep (for me) metadive on her for a different game.

Zephyrus -- Well, you know, null.

FormerFish -- I am trying (really, I am) not to equate FFish's attitude with his alignment. However, even with a lot of effort, I still have an underlying scumread. HOWEVER, I do recall that something happened that made me convert him to town. I'd have to look it up.

Cho -- Too sparse to tell. Is it scum, hiding? Is it newbtown, testing the waters?

MTD -- Mostly town.

LoudmouthLee -- Reads fairly town, more or less.

Belisarius -- Based solely on number of posts, I'm leaning scum.

Juls -- Solid town.

Lowercase -- While I was pretty set on Who being town, Lowercase has actually degraded that read. Nullish-scum.

So this boils down to:

Town- Geists, Kagami, MTD, LML, Juls
Null- Zephyer, Formerfish, Cho
Scumish- Beli, LC

And your reasoning for me is because of my attitude? Can you explain that, cause it sounds a lot like you don't like the fact that I don't explicitly believe your claim as gospel and that I want you to hang.

You give two scum leans at best which this far into the game frankly just isn't going to fucking cut it. Beli for number of posts especially, since when does activity dictate alignment. Added to the fact that you call MTD mostly town and he has less posts. Not even going to mention your null read on a dead slot with a grand total of what 11 posts. If you wanted to say content or contributions that is a different story, but you didn't day that.

Walk me through what changed your mind on LC.

Still looking for you to dive into this. Unless you just want to fully scum claim right now. If you do then cool let's fucking rock and roll.

[Formerfish]

Fish, did you send more than one pick?

No I did not.

fos: Juls

I asked FF a question and you completely didn't allow him to answer it. Your response and your hammer recently have truly made the scumdar beep. Loudly.

I'll ask again: FF, make me feel better about you. Tell me who you transformed yesterday, and I need for them to corroborate.

Why do I need to make you feel better about me? What changed from day start to now? Unless my reading comprehension has gone to shit you had me on the same lynchability level as yourself. If the group decides that outing that info is the way to go, I'm in. I actually don't think its that bad of an idea because as long as I'm live scum has to choose between me, the person I successfully transformed, or trying to figure out who I would target (which is why I think geists died, sorry geists). And for what its worth, my target already confirmed, you guys just can't see it yet.

[Formerfish]

I'd like to hear from Kagami and more from Beli first.

[Formerfish]

Beli has posted today, don't be too hasty there LML.

Kag, I sent in one choice. That's it.

[Formerfish]

I used it on Who n0, I forgot to send in an action n1, and I will confirm that it was used on n2.

[Formerfish]

Ok this is where I am right now. NS is scum to me until proven otherwise. Too much pings for me to let that read go. His reads list from yesterday that he still has yet to talk about, not including a town wincon with his claim, the confusion about some of his abilities, him turning into the only character I sent in (and mentioned in my claim), him waiting til n2 to use the ability on himself, the convenient gun aspect of his role that makes no sense because of the missing battery other than it soft clears himself and LC. And if he is telling the truth he basically became a vanilla when he passed on the ability right? So let's lynch his ass and stop pussy footing about this.

And he is voting me right now? How does that even work with his read on me? Even if he is now unsure is it really town motivated to off a confirmed PR?

[Formerfish]

I'll be here off and on for the rest of the night if anyone actually wants to try and sort some of this shit out.

[Formerfish]

Beli, I wanted you to weigh in on things because games tend to suck when it is the same 4 people playing and making 90% of the posts. Especially when scum are active in that small grouping. Things tend to happen when bad people have the loudest voices. They tend to come off as charismatic and drive others to make bad choices in the name of false prophets. Think Hitler and the Nazis.

Also I'm a little lost as to how me not sending on more than 1 pick makes the duplication null in void. Walk me through your dismissal here.

[Formerfish]

That would make sense except for the fact that Nobody has already said that Darcy was

one

of his picks. And I've played in two other upicks here, each of them required a list of choices and one would be picked from that list.

[Formerfish]

Darcy isn't two faced. He can be an ass, but he is always straight up with people. He insulted Elizabeth to her face and behind her back. He intervened in the relationship of his friend and Elizabeths older sister because he felt like the families were too far apart in social status and Jane was only in it for the money. He abhors the two facedness that is prevalent in that society at that particular period in time.

[Formerfish]

Or he just copied and pasted since nothing has changed. Notice he has the same broken attempt at an underline. That was a nice attempt to seem like you are paying attention to the thread, but maybe you'd like to respond to some things directed at you, or engage in any sort of scumhunting. Kthnx.

[Formerfish]

Anyone around? Beuller? Beuller?

[Formerfish]

I asked if I could target the same person more than once, and I was told yes. I asked if my action could affect the dead, and was told no.

[Formerfish]

Because I feel like if he had the win con, from being town or from a provided fake claim, that he would have used it to come across as genuine town. That's the same reason I included mine when I claimed, I figured town would see it for what it was.

[Formerfish]

I don't think that discussing the town wincon is in violation of the rules any more than talking about your role would be. And if I broke a rule when I claimed don't you think I'd have been mod killed by now? I don't see an egregious breach of the rules being overlooked so cavalierly. And here you are coming to the same conclusion I did, just from the oppiosit side of it.

[Formerfish]

Its paraphrased from my role pm. So, no, its not directly quoted. And again I'll point out that I'm still alive, so the mod must not have taken issue with me revealing my wincon.

[Formerfish]

It is not exactly what the wincon is, it has been changed slightly to avoid being exact. Look at the wincon and what I wrote. There are differences. If you can't see that then I question if you got the same role pm as I did.

[Formerfish]

There are 3. And I've already pmed Emp to clarify, so we can either keep going round and round on if I broke the rules or not or we can wait for him to reply.

[Formerfish]

Why are you bringing all this up now? I've mentioned it multiple times already and not a peep was heard from you then. And I don't see the game being broken wide open because I put a wincon out there. Now if I had put sometime completely fucking bonkers and someone else ran with it as legit we would be in a different situation.

[Formerfish]

Emp said if it were against the rules for me to do what I did he would have offed me.

[Formerfish]

Can we please just get some people to change their votes to NS? I don't know if you people are waiting for him to raise the scum flag, salute it and belt out the scum anthem or what, but I feel like he has done nothing town motivated, and has dodged me alone quite a few times when I try to interact with him. If I came to an incorrect conclusion I feel like he would try to work with me to show me where I went off the beaten path. The guy is scum and needs to hang. Who's voting with me?

[Formerfish]

Run me through your scum read on me again? Cause last reads list you put out had me as begrudgingly town, even with me pushing for your lynch. Today starts you flavor claim and I call bullshit and all of a sudden I am scum now. So how about you actually play the game and explain how that happened since you have done a total of Zero scum hunting this game. Hell, to be completely honest you have barely fucking played.

[Formerfish]

It'd be nice if LML would post as well. It was swell of him to thank us for being patient, but that patience is starting to wane.

[Formerfish]

And your third party spec is grade a fucking detective work there Deputy Dog.

[Formerfish]

Are we going to lynch that slot too while waiting for a replacement?

I feel like everyone took a wrong turn and ended up down the rabbit hole.

[Formerfish]

LML, I haven't claimed my target for a reason. S'all I'm saying til I feel like doing otherwise or if they say its kosher.

[Formerfish]

Can

I

prove it? No,

I

can't. The person I visited knows that I visited them. I'm leaving it up to them to come forward. In my mind if they haven't there is a good reason for that. And even if I die tonight I still get one more shot at picking a good target for the town.

[Formerfish]

We still don't have a clue as to what the transformer does. NS hasn't said anything about it and frankly I wouldn't trust him if he did. No I don't know what happens specifically if I target scum, I assume their role would switch. I highly doubt that alignment would switch though.

[Formerfish]

Knew about the Darcy switch, missed the PGO admission.

[Formerfish]

I'd say use it on a dead townie. Seems like it would be cool.

[Formerfish]

And if he is scum and there is a negative utility to that ability we'll know as well. Just hope its not too bad of a thing.

[Formerfish]

Unless he didn't know what it does, and nothing says that he knows now. Nothing he has said can be proven and all adds to the massive amounts of Wifom that we are facing. I have no idea what my ability does, only that it changes peoples roles. His could be much of the same but with negative consequences.

[Formerfish]

Something is niggling at me about NS and his claims so far, I'm just having trouble wrapping my head all the way around what it is and how best to verbalize it. Something seems very off about the roles and and the way he has used them.

Pedit- except two people have come forward to admit to being transformed as a result of my actions. You on the other hand only have the transmission of a dohickey.

[Formerfish]

How does the flavor match what I have claimed?

[Formerfish]

@MOD

- Can we please get prods on MTD and Cho?

[Formerfish]

Well fuck me. No, I forgot about Cho and don't pay attention to V/LA.

[b[NS[/b]- why is it that just about every time I try to interact with you directly, or when I respond to something you say, you duck and avoid me. Do you owe me money and I forgot about it?

[Formerfish]

Unless he didn't know what it does, and nothing says that he knows now. Nothing he has said can be proven and all adds to the massive amounts of Wifom that we are facing. I have no idea what my ability does, only that it changes peoples roles. His could be much of the same but with negative consequences.

I could say the exact same thing about you and your ability.

Just sayin.

Something is niggling at me about NS and his claims so far, I'm just having trouble wrapping my head all the way around what it is and how best to verbalize it. Something seems very off about the roles and and the way he has used them.

Pedit- except two people have come forward to admit to being transformed as a result of my actions. You on the other hand only have the transmission of a dohickey.

Address this then.

[Formerfish]

When did you start scum reading me?

[Formerfish]

EBWOP- Not that I don't remember when you voted me and started to call me scum, but what happened to change your view on me? End of day 2 you have me down in your shit reads list as

FormerFish -- I am trying (really, I am) not to equate FFish's attitude with his alignment. However, even with a lot of effort, I still have an underlying scumread. HOWEVER, I do recall that something happened that made me convert him to town. I'd have to look it up.

.

And look at the rest of your reads from that list, you have one line for everyone else but me. I feel like you were trying to lay it on pretty thick there.

[Formerfish]

My read on kagami is dependent on your flip.

[Formerfish]

I did not target Kagami. I am very confused about the flip, I was pretty positive that NS would flip scum based off a few significant factors. LML got shot last night, so now we have 2 shootings and a stabbing. I seriously don't know what's going on right now and don't even have clue as to where to start to figure anything out. Kagami, who did you become from GoT? Not revealing that in your post seems a little cagey.

[Formerfish]

I wanted to make sure my target lived through the night so I picked the most unlikely person.

Here's my rabbit hole thought for a minute. GoT and Jane Austin are extremely different subject matters. Time periods are way off and method of warfare as well. GoT is all about swords, and shooting would make sense with JA. Anyone else thinking there may be a connection?

I'm not following on the role, so NS became something that has nothing to do with his flavor, but your transformation is much narrower and makes sense?

[Formerfish]

My read on kagami is dependent on your flip.

What is your read on Kagami?

Conflicted. Kag could have been WKing NS for town cred. I'd have to go back and see what reaction was made to my call for a 1v1 with NS. Now with the transformation and the reluctance to claim it adds a wrinkle. We have to figure out the importance of stab v shoot and what it means for game mechanics. I worry that Kag would now be quiet because you would out that you visited that slot and we would all know that they had become something new. If the slot was scum I see them hiding what it was because maybe it would point a huge finger at them for being scum.

[Formerfish]

Juls my thoughts exactly on one town, one scum transformative role. That's how it was in another game i played with similar mechanics. That is why my opinion was that NS had to be scum.

[Formerfish]

Are we at a point where all cards need to be put out on the table? If we decide that we are then I am fine with that. Juls do you still want to keep us in the dark about what you became? I remember you basically telling me not to out you yesterday, but now you are asking me to out someone else.

[Formerfish]

You should probably know that unless you are a medium you probably won't be getting much in the way of answers from giests.

And not to shit on your parade, but the last few times I've seen someone do a catch up the way you ate doing they flipped scum

[Formerfish]

And he doesn't make sense as scum buddies now that NS flipped town. Ghats why I said nothing makes sense anymore.

[Formerfish]

No, that was an extension of my mistrust based off the idea that LC was clearing NS. It looks like that could be legit now.

[Formerfish]

Gun to my head, choslot and MTD. They both quickly hopped on NS lynch and never really added anything to the conversation.

[Formerfish]

Kagami read my claim again and find what is wrong with #1036.

[Formerfish]

You mention me like twice in your entire catch up. What about me pings scum for you?

[Formerfish]

Is that question only for PI kagami?

[Formerfish]

I know prods come at 72 hours, but LC needs to get his ass in here.

[Formerfish]

Cause he's at 2 days of inactivity.

[Formerfish]

To be honest it would be nice if PI was in for more than a word vomit at a time, and if MTD would play the game or replace out, and if we could get any semblance of an idea of where the fuck we should look.

[Formerfish]

What info does my lynch give? And I still have the ability to change people's roles. Like I knew LC had used his role, well not knew but you know what I mean, and my targeting him was partly because I was 99% sure it would go through. I avoided q
Giests and LML for the same reason.

[Formerfish]

Juls I get the suspicion, I really do. Until NS flipped I was 100% sure of him being scum based on many reasons.

[Formerfish]

I am down like a clown for a PI lynch. His catch up reminds me a lot of Titus in asofai where she was scum and did like 18 pages of handwritten, I'll repeat handwritten, notes to show they were reading the game. Nowhere in his incoherent rambling of a catch ip did PI come close to having much of an original thought, nor did he put forth much in the way of reads. Could he scum read me based off the thread, sure with NS flipping town of course he could. Do you think scum just sat back and watch a tvt tear each other apart, you're goddamned right they did.

Vote PI

Unless you guys decide to vote me off today, we'll have another role transformation tonight.

[Formerfish]

So basically the only thing you have to say to me is be careful when using tells from other people to build current scum reads? Noted, now hang.

[Formerfish]

Where do scum tells come from? Scum over time act in the same way or perform acts that become scummy. In a game where I knew Titus was scum she did something very similar to what you did. Add that to the fact that scum in this game would have been wise to sit back and let us tear each other apart +poe you are most likely scum.

[Formerfish]

@PI, if you are town that's a really lazy approach just to come in and go "welp, I am being lynched, good luck". If you are town and this is a mislynch we are likely in LYLO tomorrow. I have intent to hammer unless you convince me otherwise. As it stands right now, you haven't convinced me of anything.

Also this, never as town have I ever laid down on my sword like this. I would fight tooth and nail especially if my main scum read was leading my wagon. I would iso the shit out of them and show everyone exactly why they were scum and deserved to be lynched. You point out that it could be dangerous to use scum tells when reading you.

[Formerfish]

Explain why you think I was defensive in that post.

[Formerfish]

Its a scum tell because I have seen others do it as well. Hl ive done it as scum before i realized what i was doing. Stop arguing semantics with me. If its wrong then I will suffer, if not then I will be vindicated.

Pedit- explain why you think I was being defensive. Jesus at you easl or what?

[Formerfish]

We all wait with bated breath.

We are also apparently waiting for PI to stop shittily tunneling me and to remember that there is more than one scum bag left in the game.

[Formerfish]

Anyone think that PL has to be scum based off how long he's been at l-1 alone?

[Formerfish]

You know, one of the most difficult things for me to get used to playing on here as opposed to where I came from is the length of each phase. I hate waiting for things to happen and during 2 week days that's all I feel happens sometimes. Like right now, we are all sitting around waiting for two people to come back in thread and contribute.

[Formerfish]

I know that we have to wait, I'm in no way advocating a quick lynch right now, just stating that with my personality type the amount of waiting sometimes drives me up a wall. Hell ask my fiancé, well be having a fight and I just want her to get to the point of what's bugging her and leave out all the other bullshit.

[Formerfish]

Ahh... no bueno, how old.

Also, do you think you could take your vote off me? Sitting at l-2 with two scum out there kinda puts me on edge.

[Formerfish]

I heard from someone once that only scum spoilers their catch ups. You scum SK? And would you do me a favor and just directly ask any questions you have for me? It'll be much easier to direct your attention to the posts I've already made in game addressing most of them. Seriously, why include part of a narrative while ignoring relevant parts, seems like something a scum bag would do. And why are you scum reading Beli the most right now?

[Formerfish]

Probably to avoid giving away any associative tells. Cuz he's scum.

[Formerfish]

Juls, are you still around by chance?

[Formerfish]

Hello, hello, hello. Is there anybody out there?

[Formerfish]

To confirm, nothing happened to me, that I am aware of last night. I honestly don't know what to do at this point.

As far as replacements go, SleepyKrew has brought a much-needed breath of fresh air to this game.

I don't think I understand as of yet what is going on so far as the transforming and night actions and whatnot. Can anyone shed some light?

Well there was this, useless and totally void of anything worthwhile.

[Formerfish]

Are we waiting for Juls to be able to post tomorrow or are we ready to lynch?

[Formerfish]

Alright, can we get a hammer so our day comes back at a normal hour?

[Formerfish]

I'd ask for him to confirm since it might be awhile for a flip, but it'd probably be longer for him to come around.

[Formerfish]

Good game Juls.

[Formerfish]

Josh should probably stop talking about game theory and how well his grand dasterdly plan work out for him.

[Formerfish]

In our defense, MTD was a lurker and scum.

[Formerfish]

Wasn't saying it was alignment indicative for you. Just that we weren't far off from reality.

[Formerfish]

Did you base your town read off the idea that a N0 investigative didn't exist?