Mini 448: Judgement Day Mafia-Game Over!

[WhoMe?]

I was goona random vote but then I got up to

xyzzy's

post. I'm not ready to jump on the wagon yet, but I do want to hear more from xyzzy.

Perhaps there are townies?

that's some powerful right there.

FOS xyzzy

[WhoMe?]

xyzzy

- your explanation doesn't hold water. I think you have slipped up big time

vote xyzzy

[WhoMe?]

whatever he is, he's caused us to get off at a run.

I still believe he is scum, his rebuttal of his 1st post was just as suspicious IMO. I'm leaving my vote on him.

[WhoMe?]

So our people of interest seem to be

xyzzy
~NRV~
Albert B Rampage
The Fonz

Sticking with

xyzzy

at this point

[WhoMe?]

Xyzzy, if your win condition is the same as mine, it will be in a sentence of its own. How many words are in that sentence, and of those what number word is the word 'town?'

I'm not removing my vote unless xyzzy answers this.

He can't answer it. Battle MAge specifically forbade it. It ranks with quoting your PM and could mean a modkill. This is not a defense of xyzzy though. Failing someone else claiming scum I am sticking with him today.

[WhoMe?]

Wrong. Any reference to the role pm other than the name and role, will be considered quoting. No trying to bend the rules here.

FYI

oh a ranger

[WhoMe?]

interesting to see xyzzy jump on a wagon. I'm still wondering why everyone seems to have forgotten him.

[WhoMe?]

On the whole Albert vs Fonz issue. After a re-read I think Albert is the shadiest looking of the two. Still on xyzzy at this point, but I could be amenable to a vote change on to Albert.

[WhoMe?]

WhoMe- please explain

why

you might switch to Albert. Your posts so far appear to have been very light on content.

Your case on Xyzzy:

that's some powerful ? right there.

xyzzy - your explanation doesn't hold water. I think you have slipped up big time

whatever he is, he's caused us to get off at a run.

I still believe he is scum, his rebuttal of his 1st post was just as suspicious IMO. I'm leaving my vote on him.

Then you list who you think the 'people of interest are,' then a bit about how Xyzzy can't answer the PM question, then the 'interesting to see him jump on a wagon' question.

Now, you state that you're 'still on' one of the two main wagons, but you're 'amenable' to switching to the other one. It seems like you're very much going along with the crowd, and you'll support any wagon that gets a few other people on it right now.

I don't think there is much to add as to why I am on xyzy. The entire there might not be a town thing was a huge slip in my view, and his subsequent explanations have been more than a little contrived. I believe he is the best possibility for scum which is why I have been on him all day.

On Albert, I think he was exaggerating and misrepresenting quite a lot in his ongoing discussion with you. This makes me think he may be scum too, which is why I could be persuaded on to him.

[WhoMe?]

Vote: JDodge

Oh, and BZ, disagree on the cult, what is there apart from good and evil? Could be Druids i suppose.

Sounds like someone is sure of the setup. Could he be mafia ?

Unvote, vote: The Fonz

for exactly the same thing N9V and Spambot saw in xyzzy.

This is the 1st of Albert's posts i didn't like. I thought it reasonable to assume a str8 good vs evil as I had done so myself, so Albert jumping on the Fonz for this was suspicious to me

Not neccesarily. It doesn't always lead to a claim. I didn't say we should hammer him, I just pointed it out that it can give more info than a -1 can.

So you want us to -1 and hammer him immediately after ? Isn't that pushing for a quicklynch ?

didn't like this either. It is obvious that a hammer gives more info, because you get the damn role spelled out by the mod. -1 gives good info to mine the enxt day etc, but a hammer gives facts. that is all N9V was saying yet From now on Albert continues to say that N9V was pushing for hammer.

I based my assumption that there is a town on the fact that I was going entirely off of logic.

Ah, now I see what Spambot's getting at here. You shouldn't assume there's a town, you ought to know. In fact, didn't Xyzzy state earlier that he did

know

(not assume) there were townies? And now he says he assumed there was a town based off logical deduction?

Yes, exactly.

As for your reason for voting me, its either baseless or OMGUS.

Let me explain: When someone hammers, there's the risk of lynching a town.

When someone -1, the only risk is that someone hammers(I suppose this is what you meant)

But hammering would be an anti-town move that would surely only lead to a lynch for the hammerer if the person at -1 doesn't have a suitable time frame to respond to any arguments. So there, -1 is literally risk-free (I was saying it in the context in which N9V said that its best to hammer than to leave it at -1 to gain information) Err do I make myself clear ?

we continue. He has already had posts i haven't liked, so him claiming to be whiter than white also tickled me the wrong way. a vote against ABR HAS to be baseless? wtf?

You seem to be implying that townies won't do something stupid like hammering somebody. Doing so is scummy, but it's not entirely unrealistic to expect somebody to make a mistake. Whether it's miscounting how many votes away they are or just not reading the thread, it's not that clearcut.

Seeing as how everybody is so active, I doubt there could be any excuses if we explicitly say it because it would clearly be anti-town to hammer if the town unanimously agrees.

didn't get this at all. How can it be anti-town to do soemthing the toan has all agreed on?

He's not pushing the argument that a lynch is better than L-1. He's saying that

the argument Albert put forward, that a lynch would not yield more info than an L-1 vote, is crap, which it is.

Why are you distorting the truth ? First of all, I never said that.

Second, he has time and time again said that its better to hammer than -1.

first I myself believed that was Albert had said, so his denying it is odd. Also misrepresentation. All that N9V had meant, to my mind was that a hammer gives facts, L-1 discussions just give data - which is only useful later for mining, he never pushed for the hammer. more suspicion

I also found the page after page of argument with the fonz strange.

[WhoMe?]

I'm outta here.

he picked a damn fine time to leave.

[WhoMe?]

Someone please put the final vote on ABR. This is ridiculous.

not helping your scum quotient withthis post

xyzzy

.

[WhoMe?]

vote now a ranger

u look scummy however Albert had turned out. if hes guilty, you could be trying to distance yourself from him, if he was innocent then you could be eager scum. You're going to have to explain yourself

[WhoMe?]

halfway aint too serious. Hopefully serious enough to get some explanation, but still 3 away from lynched.

[WhoMe?]

i'd like to hear from nar before the wagon proceeds

[WhoMe?]

and I still think you're very keen to get people interested inanyone but you. You're still on my list xyzzy. If NAR convinces me he's OK Im voting you

[WhoMe?]

im more sure of xyzzy than NAR, so

unvote, vote xyzzy

[WhoMe?]

flighty?

my vote stayed in place all day yesterday!

[WhoMe?]

flighty?

my vote stayed in place all day yesterday!

Who called you flighty? If you're responding to me, it'd help if you quoted the part you're talking about.

thats ok then, cos i wasn't responding to you. It was for JDodge.

[WhoMe?]

JDodge isn't high on my list. I still firmly believe xyzzy to be scum, who the other 1 (or 2) scum are is still open.

[WhoMe?]

sorry for the DP, I didn't mean to submit that.

Whome? and Bluezebra are currently high on my suspect list, because after reading through this entire game (took me like, 2 hours too), I've seen incredibly little from either one of them except for a few smile and nod, one liner posts.

check out my Albert analysis post and get back to me

[WhoMe?]

Hmm JDodge, do you want me to claim? I've defended myself, and yet you still beleive I'm scum. I will claim if you ask me to, and then I hope the doc will protect me, cuz I'll probably be dead by day three if not.

claim or don't. None of this tantalising hints rubbish

[WhoMe?]

Hmm JDodge, do you want me to claim? I've defended myself, and yet you still beleive I'm scum. I will claim if you ask me to, and then I hope the doc will protect me, cuz I'll probably be dead by day three if not.

claim or don't. None of this tantalising hints rubbish

also trying to control the doc? Very scummy.

unvote vote N9V

[WhoMe?]

N9V, a soft-claim like that is fairly damaging to the town. What you just said amounts to "I have a power-role, but I am not going to give any information to the town about it, scum go ahead and kill me."
I do question why people are voting for someone who just soft-claimed though. Putting the issue of whether it was a good idea to claim like that aside, why do we want to lynch a potential power-role?

Because as you say it's a questionable claim. We have 2 scenarios

A) he really is a power role. If so the "probably" needing doc protection is a strange thing to say. If he is a power role he is now outed

I'm plumping for the more likely option

B) he is scum

although I must admit, it is a strange point at which to false claim as there was no real lynch pressure on him. Still I do not like the soft claim.

[WhoMe?]

He outed himself as a power role, why are you people still voting for him? Why did you START voting N9V.

Also, go Whome? for misrepresenting him, saying he was trying to control the doc. That right there, coupled with my earlier suspicions of you nets you a nice, tidy little

vote: whome?

it's a rubbish claim. If the doc doesnt protect him tongiht and he dies and he turns out cop, without having told us his night one results then the town gains nothing. We need a full claim out of him now and any info he might have before nighttime. It's that simple. He's already of interest to the scum (if he isn't one of them) so a full claim would not put him in any worse position and may help the town.

[WhoMe?]

I agree,

the voting is to put some pressure on him to complete his claim. He should not be lynched until that happens.

[WhoMe?]

what is your name N9V?

[WhoMe?]

WhoMe?, why is that relevant?

Why aren't you all voting for N9V?

because his name is part of his role and may add or subtract from the credibility of his claim.

[WhoMe?]

ah i misunderstood his post. he is saying his name is perplexed priest isnt he. Ok N9V - i add my request to an explanation of your needing doc protection if you claim. Why would an unconfirmed townie need protection?

[WhoMe?]

Yes, I just made up the role name of Perplexed Preist. Fine don't protect me, I just said that because I'm now a confirmed townie, and will be killed tonight. it's a fact. And JDodge wanting to kill a claimed townie, that is awfully scummy.

confirmed my ass. You have claimed, that is not the same as confirmed.

[WhoMe?]

I'm sure it will be no surprise to anyone when I

vote xyzzy

I only stopped voting him due to N9V's really bad partial claim

[WhoMe?]

your play style is really grating. the town needs to do this that and the other. Present an argument instead of just demanding compliance.

[WhoMe?]

Yes spambot,

what is the case on me? I'd be interested in hearing it as it seems to me you are pro town and I cannot for the life of me understand why you are after me.

[WhoMe?]

examples?

I have been on xyzzy right from the start firstly because of his is there a town thing and later for his eagerness to jump on anyone the town targeted to divert attention from himself.

I was also suspicious of Albert and made a (large) post explaining that. The only other person I have been on is N9V, and we all thought his claim was scummy.

where do i follow anyone's logic?

[WhoMe?]

OK.

I have decided to put the cat amongst the pigeons, as a mislynch will put us at LyLo tomorrow.

I am God, a cop

On night 1 I investigated JDodge - innocent
On Night 2 I investigated Spambot - innocent

This was the breadcrumb post I put in on Day 2 to indicate JDodge was innocent if i turned up dead

JDodge isn't high on my list. I still firmly believe xyzzy to be scum, who the other 1 (or 2) scum are is still open.

This was the breadcrumb post I put in today to indicate Spambot was innocent if I turned up dead.

Yes spambot,

what is the case on me? I'd be interested in hearing it as it seems to me you are pro town and I cannot for the life of me understand why you are after me.

After N9V partailly claimed, hinting at a power role and saying he would need doc protection, I was really hoping that was going to be a cop claim, as that would have meant a scum find. That was why I was pushing for a full claim from him.

The lynch for today should be 1 of

Blue Zebra
Now A Ranger (Replacing Higsby)
Remussaidow (Replacing Kabenon007)
Qman (Replacing Shadyforce)
Xyzzy

My personal pick would be Xyzzy, but this not just down to me thinking he is scummy, I have no investigation on him.

I hope this also explains why I haven't thrown around my vote much. If i wound up dead one night I wanted it to be fairly easy to work out what my investigations had been.

I have claimed as a lynch of either myself or Jdodge would be a very bad thing for the town.

[WhoMe?]

EBWOP
My personal pick would be Xyzzy, but this IS just down to me thinking he is scummy, I have no investigation on him.

[WhoMe?]

My only problem with your claim is that you didn't investigate xyzzy and that you did investigate me. Not saying it was a poor choice, but I'm curious as to why you did so. Barring a counterclaim (and if there is a real cop reading this, you NEED to counterclaim) I believe you.

I haven't investigated xyzzy just because i have such a certainty on his scumminess. I can't remember exactly why I investigated JDodge, but I investigated you because just after I had found out JDodge was innocent, you were linking him and me together as scum, so i thought you were worth looking up.

[WhoMe?]

the scum pair i am currently leaning towards is

xyzzy and remussaidow

I will put together my reasoning later.

[WhoMe?]

He outed himself as a power role, why are you people still voting for him? Why did you START voting N9V.

Also, go Whome? for misrepresenting him, saying he was trying to control the doc. That right there, coupled with my earlier suspicions of you nets you a nice, tidy little

vote: whome?

This interested me. He decided I was misrepresenting N9V as trying to control the doc

but 2 posts later he says

see Jdodge, I told you people think it looks scummy. But seriously, it is just playstyle, and thus is better left ignored guys.

As for N9V, he asks for the docs protection, and then claims vanilla... I don't know if I trust that.

which is basically saying he doesn't trust him for trying to control the doc. Which is it?

it's not much but it has blipped on my scumdar.

[WhoMe?]

I haven't investigated xyzzy just because i have such a certainty on his scumminess. I can't remember exactly why I investigated JDodge, but I investigated you because just after I had found out JDodge was innocent, you were linking him and me together as scum, so i thought you were worth looking up.

that's why. I am so sure you are scum i have been looking for the other one. I may be wrong of course, but that was my reasoning. As to believing my claim, there is really no other option. A counter claim would give us a guaranteed scum lynch, either today or tomorrow, and we would have confirmed townies and maybe another investigation too. I really have no reason to false claim. And if i have then the real cop could unmask me easily. No one has refuted me yet though have they?

[WhoMe?]

whether or not xyzzy is scum, im not sugesting anyone blindly follow me on to him. I want everyone to vote based on their own suspicions, analysis and reasoning.

[WhoMe?]

Blargh, no matter what alignment nar is, though I believe he's scum, he's too dangerous to keep alive.

That's scummy. He's saying even if NAR is town we should kill him anyway.

In that case,

Unvote

You're scummy, but I don't want you to die before we get anything useful out of you.

again - this doesn't seem right. Surely you keep your vote on someone you think is scum?

Indeed.

Hate to say it, JDodge, but N9V has, in his death, pretty much proven that you're scum. You're the one who said that one of you is scum.

Interesting that you did that, N9V; were you planning on using that to prove JDodge's scumminess?

It'll probably turn out good for the town...

not sure I like this either.

My suspicion of JDodge is increasing rapidly...

Giant FoS: JDodge

we're quite late in the game now - why don't you vote, FOS means sweet fa

and finally.

WhoMe?, if you've been this suspicious of me this whole time, why have you never investigated me?

Until I have a good answer, I have a difficult time believing that you're the cop.

Did you feel it wasn't necessary, or did you think someone else was a better target?

does anyone really think i have false claimed here? Given that I jave highlighted my bread crumbs, and my role as cop explains why i havent been voting everyone in sight. as this would confuse matters if i got nightkilled before claiming.

I still think xyzzy is a good pick for today

[WhoMe?]

In the absence of a counter claim, which should have been forthcoming by now, you have to assume I am what I say I am. If you're saying you are not scum, then tell us who you think is, with reasoning.

[WhoMe?]

but im telling you that JDodge has been investigated and has come up innocent. If you don't believe my claim, then I am the one that should be right at the top of your list.

I'm more certain than ever that you are scum.

[WhoMe?]

with a role name like God, I would like to think i am accurate, but I take your point.

[WhoMe?]

WhoMe?, if you've been this suspicious of me this whole time, why have you never investigated me?

Until I have a good answer, I have a difficult time believing that you're the cop.

Did you feel it wasn't necessary, or did you think someone else was a better target?

Essentially, I think he's naive, so while I believe his claim, I don't believe that what he says is necessarily accurate.

Mismatch. Changing story. First you don't believe my claim, then when someone mentions naivity (sp?) all of a sudden you DO believe my claim, but you think I am naive. You are so scum.

[WhoMe?]

I make that L-1 on xyzzy.

beter get claiming

[WhoMe?]

I'm not usre I buy it xyzzy. Everyone else's name has fit their role, yours doesn't seem to. You may be telling the truth tho. I would like ot hear from the others.

[WhoMe?]

even if he's telling the truth, he's also now a liability as if the mafia kill him they get a twofer

[WhoMe?]

there isn't even a wiki entry for reverse hider. Am having a hard time buying it.

[WhoMe?]

i make that a lynch.

[WhoMe?]

i just hope today's turns out as good as day 1's

[WhoMe?]

Greetings from Moscow guys. I was flying yesterday which is why i am late.

I investigated NaR yesterday, there had been a couple of attacks on him by xyzzy and I wondered if they were supposed to be distancing,. tho in hindsight, the chance of him being a double decker bus was probably very low.

He reads innocent.

I think that means we have won, either today or tomorrow. I hope today as that would mean I get to live to enjoy the victory.

I'll come in with a vote when I find some time to re-read Qman, remus, and how the confirmed scum interacted with them.

p.s. really nice to have my xyzzy suspicions confirmed!

[WhoMe?]

There's not so much to go on here. I'm going to plump with a

vote QMan

I don't like his role claim - I suspect an Apostle would be a power role, also he has been FOS'd by xyzzy, who had previously mentioned how scum have to appear suspicious of each other. I know it's not much, but it's more than I could find on remus

[WhoMe?]

Hi guys,

good news, I'm not naive. Remus shows up as scum.

vote remussaidow

of course he is going to claim I am scum and that is why I wasn't killed last night. This is just a ploy, and would mean we had started with no cop. How likely do you think this is?

[WhoMe?]

Hi guys,

good news, I'm not naive. Remus shows up as scum.

vote remussaidow

of course he is going to claim I am scum and that is why I wasn't killed last night. This is just a ploy, and would mean we had started with no cop. How likely do you think this is?

Doesn't this seem a bit overly convenient and misleading to anyone else?

JDodge, unlike yourself, I am in a position to know my own alignment for sure. This means I know the play remus is making. If i had been killed last night, then he would have been the logical lynch for today, his only defence would be to claim I was naive so that the ppl I had confirmed innocent weren't actually confirmed.
He has chosen to go for plan B. He has killed one our better townies and prepared the way for a claim that I am in fact scum and have been playing you all.
I see no reason to wait for him to come along and make this claim, I am pre-empting him. I am a cop, I investigated remus last night and got a scum result. You know you are innocent JDodge, what's more you know NaR is innocent, go back and analyse my content and remus's content and cast your vote where you will.

[WhoMe?]

I agree with Jdodge, I believe that it is whome?

he's "known" everybody's alignment, but...
they were all town. He "knew" that xyzzy was scum. but claimed to have never investigated him.
He's also starting WIFOM arguments about what I'm going to say. That's just plain insulting.

insulting? It's obvious.

at this stage we are left with opnly the 2 scenarios. Either you are scum, or I am.

in scenario A, you are scum, and your only play is to claim I am scum

in scenario B, I am scum, and given my previous reported investigations, I peg you as scum.

This is why the only way forward is for the other 2 to read our posts through this game and come down on one side or the other.

[WhoMe?]

another thought occurs.

why hasn't remus voted me? If he were telling the truth, then he would be innocent, and I would have lied about his alignment.

Yet he hasn't voted me? A mistake I would say.

[WhoMe?]

or is it unwillingness to be wrong in a lynch or lose situation?

Truly you can't be serious? You know your own alignment. You know that WhoMe? must be lying. Therefore, WhoMe? cannot be town.

You see my point then JDodge? If remus is not scum, then he would know for sure that I was, as I would have lied about his alignment. How then does that marry up with unwillingness to lynch in LYLO. He IS scum, I am not lying, and you have it in your power to win the game for the town.

[WhoMe?]

Jdodge, Yes I do know that he's lying, and yes, I do THINK that he is scum, but I want to be awfully damned sure about it when I vote in this situation. This isn't the place where we can say, oops, we lynched the wrong guy. I'm not a proponent of end-game lynch all liars, because occasionally the town does lie.

are you insane? i am claiming a guilty result on you in LYLO, the possibility of me being town and lying doesn't exist here.

[WhoMe?]

1) Whome? did NOT investigate Xyzzy, and still felt sure he was scum.

and it worked out. We lynched him, without me using an investigation on him, so in effect i got an extra investigation

2) He happened to investigate ME for some odd reason when I had already hammered two scum... Why not Qman or Remussaidow first?

granted i was reaching here. I wondered if you were scum who double bus'd to look town

3) It just happens he didn't get a guilty until the end.

thats just the way it went

What seems unlikely:

Jdodge was targeted 3 times on Night 1, by Blue Zebra, Whome?, AND Remus.

What seems likely about Remus that could also mean he is scum:

1) He might have killed the Doctor Blue Zebra on Night 3, so that he could kill the cop next. Perhaps he didn't know that Whome? would inspect me on that night.

2) If I was Whome? and WAS scum who claimed cop, in a VERY unlikely instance, btw this is just an example, I would probably fake a no-kill by not submitting a kill, and pretend that someone (in this case, Blue Zebra) protected me.

[WhoMe?]

a one-shot vig who went off half cocked on night one - not remus's responsibility at that time i know, but a really bad thing for a one-shot to do. He ain't a vig is the easiest explanation

[WhoMe?]

the reason I haven't posted is I have nothing more to add. It's JDodge's move now.

[WhoMe?]

also when is the deadline? It is the 14th JUne today, but it ain't a monday

[WhoMe?]

if you are happy with your vote, I wouldn't worry too much NaR, a no lynch isn't the end of the world, a mislynch is. It's up to JDodge now.

[WhoMe?]

JDodge........




right decision

[WhoMe?]

i don't think godfatehr is transferable. just cos you are the last mafia left doesn't get you a promotion

[WhoMe?]

also,

now we're all finished - my claiming as cop do you think it was premature, or well timed? This was my 1st time as a cop so I am keen to learn from any msitakes I have made.

[WhoMe?]

scared the sh*t out of me i'll tell ya

[WhoMe?]

I agree - good fast moving game. A pleasure all round