Mini 1576 - Timeshift Mafia II - Endgame

[Aegor]

Have not read any of this game. Will at least skim through it, reading the posts of the live players.

If someone could tell me what is going on and any things I should know, that would be delightful.

[Aegor]

Well, that is...disappointing. Unless someone has some prior experience with this setup, I will loosely assume that there is one Mafioso left.

[Aegor]

I confirm that claim, although I will probably have a word with the mod about PM clarity post-game.

[Aegor]

You are so lucky that a Maf RBer is already dead, otherwise I would be lynching you without delay.

[Aegor]

Have any night actions been apparently confirmed?

[Aegor]

I may not really get to reading this until Thursday.

[Aegor]

Aegor's reading update: 5/110 pages.

[Aegor]

Also, had Inflatable Pie and Messiah as obvscum after their horrible jumps onto the Victor wagon, and it turns out both were scum. Good job, me.

[Aegor]

@singer:

I am happy to abbreviate my reading. Do you have a recommended starting point for me?

[Aegor]

Read through page 27.

Current hardcore scumreads are singer/Ms Kaze slot and Anatole.

[Aegor]

Aegor they can't both be scum. That'd be 5 scum.

So? They are still my top scumreads. My read will end with a lynchpool, not a single scum candidate, unless there is only one obvscum.

[Aegor]

Aegor's reading update: 61/110 pages.

I have read through Day 3; will finish tomorrow. Scumreads remain the same -- Anatole and singer\slot. I have a mega-post of posts from the game that I am compiling as I am reading.

Also, I assume that the claims will explain why my slot is not dead yet, but I have not gotten that far and I forgot what someone (Anatole?) posted about the claims. Will look at that now.

[Aegor]

It was Bulba who posted the claim thing. Thanks for the protect.

I have PMed the mod asking for all mod communications to my slot to be turned over to me, as I received only a Role PM.

[Aegor]

I am almost done reading (~page 96-97). I will post later tonight.

[Aegor]

So, my scumreads have not changed all game. Right now, independent of the claims, Anatole is my top scumread.

Below is a dump of interesting posts.

Spoiler:

VOTE: No Lynch

vote no lynch

Exactly my point. I like you now

Yeah fuck it.

UNVOTE: metal

VOTE: VictorDeAngelo

Pie is town, btw.

In the meantime, I don't really understand the Victorwagon.

Sigh.

We are a member of the town, guize.

Did you not hear? We're a member of the town, silly goose.

We're a Member of the Town. That's our role name.

There's no sample role PM, so there's no way we'd know the name unless we were the genuine article.

Snap crackle pop.

Plus it has the advantage of explaining why you haven't died if you manage to last a few days.

No it doesn't.

Jeesh, if you had 2 vests to hand out, who would you give them to?

@Bulba: k

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Victor

Scumteam is Bane/Victor/Bulba game solved. If Victor is town Bane is still scum. Bane's opinion on Victor is fake.

This should be L-1

I think InflatablePie is scum

bane is scum.

that is not a scumhunting tactic... hes fishing for something else.

But you will, because the vote is still there. and I won't take it off till you're at L1, or it becomes a serious vote, or we find a better target (like Kaze), so if someone L1s you, then someone else quickhammers, our vote just unintentionally assisted in your lynch, which means there was plenty of pressure on you. So it's a vote that is still dangerous to you. So you should do your damnedest to get rid of it before it can harm you.

VOTE: Bane

This is not how a townsperson finds scum.

VOTE: kazemara

Scum team is bane, mollie, victor

Don't bother with the WIFOM. My slot is pretty much straight fucked now.

Don't care. Matter of principle. No selfvote tyvm.

VOTE: Kaze

Sorry, really busy preparing for a trip. I also agree 100% with bane about the hydras.

I can give current reads now until I gt a chance for a re-read:

Townish: Peregrine, Jeesh (god he is obnoxious though), Pants Targaryen, Pie
Scummish: Kaze, Bulba, BBMolla, Messiah

Where is Bane?

-

especially

with Molla on the wagon, I'm just plain not voting Anatole, plain and simple.
- that said, I'm also not feeling a MsKaze wagon, at all, either, because I think that slot is pretty damn town.
- if I had to pick a major wagon to join right now, I'd honestly jump on Targ because the other two wagons are that much more terrible. but I'd much much much rather wagon molla here.

to sum up Molla:
- vote on Anatole pretty bad - "oh yeah, look at his scummy ISO"
- still thinks Targ-slot is scum but jumps off the wagon pointing back to above 'reasoning'
- attempt at in-depth reasoning that was given later was unconvincing, which in this case came across as him looking for things he could easily jump on
- hasn't really been useful all game, nor overly townie IMO, not a huge point but doesn't help his case
- trying to play the "I have ~town conviction~" card rubs me the wrong way

let's go with some older stuff too:
- useless comment in 19 and easy jump on MS/Targ-slot in 54
- goes back and forth on Metal/Targ-slot in 93 and 98
- jumps on Bulba and Bane seem really bad for a reason I'll explain in a sec: (181, 237, 291, 547, 588. joins Vic wagon saying Vic/Bulba/Bane are scum
- votes Targ/MS-slot again 726/727, also see 774. no comments on Bane or Bulba today.
- jumps off the Targ wagon to join the Anatole wagon, which IIRC had Bulba on it w/ Bane only recently jumping off. the two people he thought were scum D1.

I seriously don't see why so many people have him as town.

Pie dude are you scum

Please be town like all I want is to be right

I'm never right

Are you calling me scum because I'm voting you? And seriously, what posts of mine have you "literally disagreed with"? And if your "yeah sure" was in response to me calling your 984 "look at my ~town conviction~"... Actually, even if it was directed at the other thing, you do realize that not answering my questions doesn't help your case, yeah?

is there any way we can wagon this within 24 hours, please?

Even as shitty as I am, I can see that House Targaryen is obviously town, what does that say about you guys?

Who's scum?

VOTE: BBmolla

Molla has gone for low-hanging fruit both days and still accuses others of doing the exact same thing.

Any overlap on Victor with the current Anatole and House T wagons should be suspect. This leads to Molla and Messiah.

I just read over Pie and Ceph's posts, including all of the molla case. Dare I say it just *feels* like town as a whole isn't particularly engaged or playing well with all the replacements going on...

@Ceph: what pings you about all of Pie's posts?

Library tomorrow off mobile, will respond to a few posts then.

unvote
vote Targ

L-1.

do you think his posts have been inherently anti-town? his posts/attacks aren't constructive enough to be labeled town for me, but meh.

between his lack of explanations and shoddy reasoning when he does give it, plus his d2 votes contradicting his supposed reads from d1, yeah, I think that's pretty anti-town.

Point being, there are several people just as scummy if not moreso. :/

this isn't the best reason to not think he's scum (and to be fair I'm biased), but I understand where you're coming from.

I like the feel of his most recent posts. That's always the best I can do with Molla.

So it's a gut townread?

Do you inherently disagree with my case on Molla?

Pie, why are you reading BB as scum?

1021


molla's 1084 - oh hey I was gonna call you scum but then I saw you called me town. I don't think I need to explain why this is bad?


@Tammy - hi. so your reads in 1086 seem waffle-y (admittedly some more than others)

P5 - "probably means he's scum ... town or oscar-worthy"
Kcda/Bert - "kcda is town ... but I've never played with [Bert], so we'll see what he does"
Messiah - "is a maybe ... I'm not the greatest reader of Desperado"
Mara - you flat out said you're waffling so >_>

could you elaborate on your Pants read? because I'm having trouble parsing that sentence.

Targaraern almost comically amished, like textbook amish.

I was gonna come in and yell at people for misusing it, but no that's legit terrible.

So, what I gathered this morning as I read my predecessors iso was the dude was holy shit frustrated town (can't wait for some reversed amished tell accusation!)

Why did you read your predecessor just curious

there's something weird going on here that rubs me the wrong way but I honestly can't figure out how to word it.

still, don't like Molla buddying up to the Tammy/Bane slot, especially since he called Bane scum D1 and seemed pretty confident.


P5, Bulba, Bert, Studio, Messiah are town.

\\This comes after saying that Messiah is suspect for his votes on Anatole/House T. The other person suspected for these votes is Molla, whom Pie pursues relentlessly. It would honestly surprise me if this is a bus attempt.

Molla is scum.
Tammy I'm not sure on yet (Bane did a few things I did and didn't like IIRC), Pants has also faded out of my memory.
Anatole and Mara I still don't want to lynch - Mara on Kaze's actions,

Anatole because Molla's been pushing him so hard and no one's convinced me + nothing's stuck out as scummy to me.

-- seems to me to be a hardcore chainsaw defense.

I still need to look into a few reads more closely, it looks like.

I was about to submit this post, but decided not to:

OK change of plans since DL is actually in 27 hours 43 mins from this post. I mainly have a really bad feeling that scum is sitting back this whole phase and letting us mislynch.

I would like to lynch someone else.

Does anyone else feel like tonight would clear things up? Maybe House would get killed if town, or at least get another "track?"

Does it take them an extra night to get a result? This timeshift is so confusing. I feel like they're either a scum tracker or a town tracker, so the tracker part is *probably* legit.

UNVOTE:

I still think the bane/tammy slot is town, in addition to Pants, Targ, & Peregrine. I would vote for Pie actually, seems like he's cast a lot of doubt without actually following up on suspicions, and seems like with the Targ vote he's trying to get this (admittedly, grueling) day over with as soon as possible especially because anyone with a brain can see that Targaryen is innocent.

#1138 definitely feels like he is trying to undermine Tammy, who is starting to take a confident/leadership role since the replacement.

VOTE: InflatablePie

Vote: Wake

If Wake is town and telling the truth, then it's on House for relaying false actions in-thread

I know, I know, just as consolation in case that slot is actually town.

VOTE: InflateablePie

I'm disappointed in how a Metal Sonic message was sent to his replacement as town.

Poor form.



If it's time shift, Tammy dies Noght 2? Delayed

VOTE: Inflatable Pie

Him and messiah gave eachother town/null reads without evidence all game.

look it up yourselves

I'm going to go get some food because I haven't eaten all day, calm down a bit, and if I'm

not

lynched, try and be a little more able-to-be-reasoned-with.

[pedit]
I'd still much rather lynch Molla but scum's either in [Anatole/Pants] leaning former and I don't have much of a choice anyway.

that said, let me go calm down a bit and I'll revisit Anatole tonight

A bane kill by mafia night one is one of the dumbest choices possible, looking back. It doesn't make any sense.

vote:anatole

Would also accept bert and pants.

To a lesser extent, I would be willing to see bulb or Perev get lynched

Because he's scum and lying? You guys realize he hasn't flipped yet, right?

[Aegor]

VCA:

Day 1:

VictorDeAngelo (Lynch)

Anatole Kuragin,

InflatablePie

,

Messiah Complex

, Kcdaspot,

Dr Pants

, Bbmolla,

Metal Sonic

Day 2:

Wake88 (Lynch)

Messiah Complex

,

Dr Pants

, Bulbazak,

Studio 54

,

Tammy

, Bbmolla,

InflatablePie

Day 3:

InflatablePie (Lynch)

Bert, Bbmolla, Anatole Kuragin,

PeregrineV

,

Dr Pants

, Ms Marangal

Day 5:

PeregrineV (Lynch)

Bert, Bulbazak, Bbmolla, Singersigner

[Aegor]

VCA indicates that scum is necessarily all on one of the town wagons unless Ms Kaze slot is scum.

[Aegor]

Relevant night info:

I was shot Night 2 and was given a BP vest. I confirmed this with the mod, since he had not told me.

Anatole: JK
Night 2: Jails Pie
Night 3: Jails Molla
Night 4: Jails Bulba
Night 5: Jails Tammy

Bulba: Doctor
Night 2: Jeesh
Night 3: Jeesh
Night 4: Tammy
Night 5: Tammy


Kills:
Night 2: Tammy and Messiah Complex
Night 3: Dr Pants
Night 4: Studio 54
Night 5: [No one]


I believe the above is all correct.

[Aegor]

In light of that, I would propose the following:

-BB is town
-Bulb is town, unless he claimed Doctor to try to push a mislynch on Anatole and then get out of a 1v1 that he had called for
-This slot is town
-We lynch Anatole, then singersigner if needed
-Bert scares me given his low profile and I did not feel comfortable with kcd, but meh

[Aegor]

Those are the nights of execution.

[Aegor]

I have played only one game with Anatole; we won as scum. I will not make a meta argument, but just throwing that out there.

I agree with the general sentiment toward his claim and setup spec and his reactions toward Bulba. I also have found him to be placating other players and basically coasting through large stretches of the game, including Day 1. His reads are inconsistent, as in his vote on my slot followed by the disappearance of my slot from his scumread list in Post 884. Also consider his pursuit of BBMolla (whom Pie was also attacking) even though he mentioned Messiah as a scumread (see note above), which is like scumtell number one for me.

He also has horrible associatives with Pie especially.

[Aegor]

@mod, please fix post tags in my above post

For some reason I often close post tags with vote tags. Whoops.


@Bert: Clearly the distinction is important barring mod incompetence (...). I am taking it at face value. I guess the lack of kill last night confuses me.

[Aegor]

@Anatole: Please, without quoting your role PM, tell me how your JK works. What is the ability, specifically?

[Aegor]

Aside from your mention of Anatole's Pie associatives, the "coasting/placating" describes not just him, but players like me too. Same with inconsistency.

kcd was absolutely not coasting, which extends to you. The only other player that "coasting" accurately describes is singer's slot. Which is my other scumread, which was solidified with her horrible OMGUS against Jeesh, who I thought was pretty obviously town.

A meta argument would be reassuring tbh, that's the selling point for me.

idk; I replaced into that game too, and he bussed me (we agreed beforehand). He basically said things that agreed with most other people and never made waves.

[Aegor]

How have I had a low profile? I've been here, present, even if

low content

You have just answered your own question.

Also why would the lack of kill confuse you with several protective claims?

Hold on.

[Aegor]

@Bulb:

Confirm your ability is not timeshifted.

[Aegor]

i.e. PV's Night 4 submission used up the BP last night?

Anyway, I wanted to make sure that Anatole claimed Timeshifted JK. Since he did, the lack of NK Night 5 is weird because at least one scum party thought that Anatole could be JKing me. PV was still alive to give an order. If Anatole is a legit JK, then the lack of NK does not make sense. Surely both parties would not target Tammy given that they knew Anatole would JK her the subsequent night. The only way that could work is if PV targeted the remaining maf, who is an RBer that RBed Anatole and then tried to NK Tammy, thinking that she would be unprotected.

On the other hand, if Anatole is scum, why not actually perform a NK? How could the NK have been stopped, given that I was the only one protected/JKed?

@Mod: Please confirm that the Serial Killer Role has no modifiers other than Timeshifted, e.g. Bulletproof or Strongman.

[Aegor]

How do you explain the lack of NKs last night?

[Aegor]

Great, so Anatole is then the obvious choice for today.

Oh, and his reluctance to 1v1 and his weak insistence that Bulb be killed first are pretty scummy, in my opinion.

I really liked reading this game.

[Aegor]

VOTE: Anatole

[Aegor]

It is not timeshifted. I cannot bypass the mechanic.

What do you mean by "cannot bypass the mechanic?"

[Aegor]

Ah, well, that progressed pretty quickly.

Processing...

I do not like this post.

What is the problem with the idea of Anatole scum? You better hope the game ends with his lynch.

[Aegor]

Hold up.

@Anatole:

Are your Jailkeeps executed immediately or one night after submission? It sounds like you are saying they are resolved night-of-submission (timeshifted).

My NA list was therefore wrong.






I was shot Night 2 and was given a BP vest. I confirmed this with the mod, since he had not told me.

Anatole: JK
Night 1: Jails Pie
Night 2: Jails Molla
Night 3: Jails Bulba
Night 4: Jails Tammy
Night 5: Jails Molla

Bulba: Doctor
Night 2: Jeesh
Night 3: Jeesh
Night 4: Tammy
Night 5: Tammy


Kills:
Night 2: Tammy and Messiah Complex
Night 3: Dr Pants
Night 4: Studio 54
Night 5: [No one]

[Aegor]

That tells us pretty much nothing, since Mafia seems to be Timeshifted, unless one of them has a Timeshift modifier.

[Aegor]

Pretty sure Anatole said it resolves night after submission

He claimed Timeshifted, though. I was under the impression that that meant the actions are delayed by a night, but I have just realized, after being told by Bulba, that Timeshifted roles are the ones that do bypass the mechanic.

[Aegor]

Because I feel like if it's one of the two it's Bulb which I've already stated so yeah uh huh good luck threatening me into making a decision before I'm ready

I am not threatening you. As I have said since I have replaced in, my two top scumreads are your slot and Anatole. This has nothing to do with pressuring you to vote.

Also, how is Bulb more likely scum than Anatole? I have read this entire game and not seen any explanation.

I feel like you're trying really hard to convince yourself I'm scum if you're wrong about Anatole but I really can't help you with that other than convince you to lynch me first to avoid this petty threatening nonsense that will really just cost you the game with your arrogance

I feel like you are misunderstanding my posts very much.

[Aegor]

Peregrine had the chance to hammer Anatole on the day we no-lynched, but he kept townreading him and didn't vote

Even remarked on twilight that Anatole was 90% confirmed town.

Are you saying that Anatole's and PV's actions somehow interacted at night? Otherwise, I do not see how that is relevant. Anatole maybe jailed one of PV's targets? That still does not clear Anatole; scum could have a JKer. Am I missing some scenario? Unless PV had a 1-shot Cop ability and cleared Anatole.

What do you think of the way Pie interacted with Molla?

I buy his attack on Molla as genuine. Pie also cleared Anatole solely on the basis that Molla was voting for him. Also check out 1021 1301. Anatole joins with a Molla vote in 1053, but inexplicably mentions nothing about Messiah, whom he labels a scumspect.



Anatole has been a scumread for me the entire game, even before I knew about all the claim stuff and how it played out. I will need a really compelling reason to look elsewhere, and I have not come upon any yet.

[Aegor]

I think that I do not care whether there are any PRs tomorrow.

[Aegor]

So...Anatole obviously has to die.

[Aegor]

This is ridiculous.

Mod: VC please

.

[Aegor]

BBMolla, I spent the last couple of pages explaining why. I am not quite sure what else I can do. Let me know what you find problematic. And my plan is to lynch singer tomorrow if Anatole flips scum anyway.

Also, you should all pre-in for my Large Normal.

[Aegor]

*flips town

[Aegor]

Vote Anatole, people.

[Aegor]

YAY

[Aegor]

Yay!

Also, yay for sticking to my guns for like the first time ever!



Nice try, Anatole. The claim was a bold move.

[Aegor]

Good game, everyone!

@Mod:

Thanks for modding. I have a few suggestions for the OP. First, add some formatting, like bolding "Alive," "Dead," etc. Second, weave the replacements into the playerlist (either by Strikethrough or by adding "replaced X" in parentheses or something). Third, link at least to the beginnings and ends of days.

[Aegor]

That's the consensus - Bulba is claimed doc, I am roleblocker. The other four of you claimed VT.

Jailkeeper*

You are so lucky that a Maf RBer is already dead, otherwise I would be lynching you without delay.

Also, this was a striaght-up scumslip, which I kind of was thinking. I guess my love of setups that defy expectations was compelling me to consider the possibility of two RBers, but I had no hard evidence, so I did not bring it up.