Mini 1608--Mafia on the Air(Fin)

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Falcon, how do you feel about Jiffy?

Not sure. Not reading the game and #yoloing it is something I expect from Majiffy regardless of alignment. I have townreads on Cutty and you so he's in my POE pool of three. What is your read on him? Have you generally read him accurately in the past?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Can I have a link to Micc's Micro?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=58803

He derailed my scum wagon

~M

Just seeing those votecounts amuses me:

Spoiler: Micc's Micro

Votecount 2.03

notscience (4)

: Malakittens, tree, Bins, Dr Pants

Majiffy (1)

: The Bulge

Not Voting (3)

: Majiffy, InflatablePie, notscience

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to Lynch or No Lynch.

Deadline:

The deadline for Day 2 will be at 5:00 PM CST, which is in (expired on 2014-09-09 17:00:00).

Notes:

notscience is V/LA until Monday.

Votecount 2.04

notscience (3)

: Marquis, Bins, Dr Pants

Majiffy (1)

: The Bulge

Malakittens (1)

: InflatablePie

Marquis (1)

: Malakittems

Not Voting (2)

: Majiffy, notscience

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to Lynch or No Lynch.

Deadline:

The deadline for Day 2 will be at 5:00 PM CST, which is in (expired on 2014-09-09 17:00:00).

Votecount 2.05

notscience (3)

: Marquis, Bins, Dr Pants

Malakittens (2)

: InflatablePie, Majiffy

Majiffy (1)

: The Bulge

Marquis (1)

: Malakittens

Not Voting (1)

: notscience

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to Lynch or No Lynch.

Deadline:

The deadline for Day 2 will be at 5:00 PM CST, which is in (expired on 2014-09-09 17:00:00).

Notes:

I will have extremely limited internet access this weekend, so I am declaring V/LA from Friday afternoon through Sunday night. Caledfwitch has agreed to backup mod, and will be watching over the game while I am gone. Any PM's related to this game should be sent to both of us over this time period.

Votecount 2.08

(L-1) Majiffy (4)

: The Bulge, Marquis, Malakittens, Bins

Malakittens (1)

: Majiffy

notscience (1)

: Dr Pants

Not Voting (2)

: notscience, InflatablePie

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to Lynch or No Lynch.

Deadline:

The deadline for Day 2 will be at 5:00 PM CST,

which is in (expired on 2014-09-09 17:00:00)

.

Votecount 2.09

Majiffy (5)

: The Bulge, Marquis, Malakittens, Bins, InflatablePie

Malakittens (1)

: Majiffy

notscience (1)

: Dr Pants

Not Voting (1)

: notscience

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to Lynch or No Lynch.

A lynch has been achieved.

Down goes another tree.
Better keep searching...

Majiffy has been lynched.

He was a

Tree

, and has been turned into a

Tree-stump

.

It is now Night 2. The deadline for Night 2 is in (expired on 2014-09-11 14:19:02).

Unless otherwise specified, night actions should be sent to me via PM.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I made a comment that he didn't exactly derail it, but didn't help me lynch NS >_>

I just said I was amused.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Also this is probably the worst I've felt about ffery in any game I've ever been in with her. Mostly gut - error bars are wide right now.

-b

Can you explain what caused your early scumread on Ffery?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

426 made me laugh.

Don't h8

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Hey Honey Bee. Imagine you were going to be modkilled immediately after your next post.

What is the one thing you most want town to be aware of and give serious consideration to after you're gone?

Can I have two things?

I'd want them to be aware that AK's gameplay still has no interest in finding out the alignment of his reads, and instead comes to him seemingly out of nowhere.

Also that Csareo didn't go about his plan to solve the game and pressured the roles he did know and out instead of keeping them hidden. It feels like rolefishing and betrays his original motive.

Peedit: I'm fine with getting lynched today. I haven't been useful at all and I am having trouble paying attention in my games.

I don't know what to make of Honeybee constantly suggesting that Anatole is scum.

I feel that FT would have been an easier target. On one hand, she could be pushing a townie hoping that he would get lynched over her. It could also be last minute distancing if she knows the writing is on the wall. The votes on her piled up pretty fast towards deadline though so I don't know how much she was able to predict that she would be lynched at that point.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Also, I would like Zim to explain what ze's saying about csareo, because it kind of doesn't make sense to me as written.

Csareo said originally he wanted to confirm people via flavor, as he thought the scum were given scum flavors. But he outed his own idea by revealing the players, which would give any scum proof that they needed to truthfully claim. Then he proceeded to pressure the people he did know (you/shark) for confirmation on the information. It feels more like that he wanted to confirm the roles he thought he could determine from flavor rather than just seeing if they would lie. I can't justify it from a town perspective to want to interact with the people he thought was town prs to see if they were lying, rather than determine the alignment of roles he thought didn't fit the theme.

This feels like Honeybee is angling for a mislynch as opposed to an unnecessary bus.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

gossamer I guess you missed this post because he asked about my vote on FT

Anatole, why'd you vote me?

Deadline is approaching.

Don't like your posts since the bp/me/csareo thing and I didn't like the way you turned around and tried to make a scum case on me when you got a little breathing room from your noose.

I am also inclined to give 3/4 people on your wagon benefit of the doubt based on recent reads and interactions.

I'd honestly vote for you, ihnc, nash, or honey right now though because we need to work towards a consensus and while honey is giving me the worst scum gut scum vibe, the rest of you would provide a lot more information with a lynch so I'm willing to compromise.

Which specific posts of FT's did you not like? I didn't observe a change of demeanor from him with regard to the Csareo thing and nothing particularly alignment indicative.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

The pace of this game is really making me lose interest. You guy's are rushing, and it is impossible to pay any real attention to detail.
I'm replacing out. I simply can't enjoy a game that is outside of my comfort zone.
Mafia should be a slow game, played over a cup of coffee. Maybe I'm not ready for the Pro's.

Before I replace out, does anyone want to know something from my role PM?

The bolded feels town. I doubt scum would want to give away additional information about their role for no reason.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Also, want to mention: for all the focus on Bork, I totally forgot to point out that I have a pretty strong townread on SleepyKrew.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Post 1908 and Post 1909 from Csareo feel really town.

I'm disappointed that OkaPoka has done nothing but lurk lately and whiteknight the Majiffy slot though so I'm somewhat annoyed at not being able to nail down a solid read there.

At this point, I'm leaning town on Oka, decently sure Anatole is scum. Thinking Majiffy is probably the other scum through POE.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Is anyone reading my info dump spam analysis anymore? Bolding this so it won't be missed:

@ Anatole

Cutty, did you vig FT?

I though YOU were the vig. Why did you ask this question?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I honestly thought you were a vig after day 1

This too. You "honestly" thought that they were a vig?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Vote Count 1.12

Limb blinks, and the faces have changed again. He sighs, and redraws the current standings. One day, they will pay him.

Nashville Dreams(2):

5-Off, I have no creativity

Honey bee(3):

gossamer wings, FourTrouble, Anatole Kuragin

Cutty Shark(0):

FourTrouble(4):

Lissa, The Fonz, Baboon Pride, Cutty Shark

5-Off(0):

AnatoleKuragin(1):

Honey bee

The Fonz(0):

i have no creativity(1):

Nashville Dreams

gossamer wings(0):

Baboon Pride(0):

fferyllt(0):

Csareo(1):

Lissa(0):

Not Voting(2):

fferyllt, Csareo

With thirteen alive, it is seven to lynch.

(expired on 2014-09-14 16:00:00)

Making a note that from here on out, Cutty Shark, Lissa, Fferyllt, and TheFonz voted Honeybee. Cutty's vote is easily trackable. The first two votes were town.

If anyone bussed, it has to be Anatole.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

It is always possible Csareo (Oka) and 5-Off (Majiffy) are the remaining scum and the scum lynch went through because scum weren't active enough to influence the lynch.

Come to think of it, that actually makes more sense than Anatole voting so :/

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

One thing I remember is that

someone

called 5-Off a third party. I don't recall who it is. If it was Baboon, then it fairly strongly points away from Majiffy being mafia.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

And just speculating out loud here but I feel like 5-off could be third party. the neighborhood info he had... I could see going to a neutral third.

This resonates with me and is probably worth considering.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Re: massclaim: I don't really care.

Re: items: we don't have one.

Re: Amished tell: that just happened. I have lynched for this twice ever. The first time, I objected to such a dumb tell being used to quicklynch someone. They were scum. The second time, I had decided the tell was good. It wasn't. In conclusion, meh.

Re: how useless I am: there are a number of factors going on here, including me being demoralized because FT flipped town, and me signing up for too many games and slacking on the one in which I had a partner because I'm a bad person. I'm slightly less overcommitted now than I was before, and I'm not planning to go super in depth on what I've already missed (guys, this thread is too dense, please help me out here), but plan to be attentive henceforth.

Baboon and Shark fall into the 'I was reading them town yesterday, and I haven't wavered that much' camp. Baboon's #1710 and #1920 are inconsistent - the former lists me as 'maybe scum' and the latter says they're 'very against' lynching me - but I guess this is going to be explained away as hydra dissonance. Sigh.

This is the first thing you've said this game that has pinged me. I hate it when players complain about this.

I still think AK is probably scum, but I haven't iso'd the dead scum yet. I wish the dead scum wasn't a lurker.

tying town to partners is something scum often do.

Associative hunting is a good tactic. Please allow it to be used.

I hadn't thought of this before, but I'm actually wondering if scum have fakeclaims in this setup (I have no idea whether or not it would have occurred to Nat to do that)

but if they do, it kinda makes the Lissa neighborhood argument way weaker

-b

This sounds insanely fake.

No, it doesn't

VOTE: Cutty Scum

A bastard mechanic necessitates fakeclaims. The mod cannot depend on town outing the bastard mechanic.


AK there is nothing inside knowledge there.

what the fuck is this.

-Ceph

Ceph's tone towards Mala here makes it blatantly obvious that he is trying to set up Nashville for a mislynch.

I don't understand why you don't see it Majiffy.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Thing is... FT doesn't actually answer any of Anatole's issues with him. And I don't think it's fair to say that Anatole made clear that Honey was a compromise vote. It's more that AK intimated that FT was a compromise lynch, he really wanted to lynch Honey who was his 'best gut scum read.' Anatole feels like he's blowing in the wind here. His response today is that he was pretty much happy to lynch either of Honey and FT (or Nashville). The way he reacts to FourT's line of questioning makes me wonder why he had voted FT in the first place... as if he couldn't really defend it, and jumped off as soon as it came under any criticism. We hear that Honey was always his strongest read, but that he was voting because of an impending deadline.

This feels spot on.

This feels like he is goading Fonz into mislynching Anatole.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Players I'm interested in lynching today, at present: 5-off, Nashville, Oka, AK.

Obviously this needs narrowing/refining, which I'm hoping I'll get some of from ISOing the dead scum.

-Ceph

So, he is definitely bussing.

~~~

MJFY, I want you to read the rest of Post 2351 even if you are not going to read the whole game. Notice the tone that Cephrir takes with Nashville and tell me if it looks even remotely like buddy-buddy interactions. I feel that it is blatantly obvious he is trying to manipulate people into pushing Nashville and set them up to be lynched in a subtle way that is incredibly unlikely to be bussing.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

VOTE: Oka

Lets make this a thing, then

Scum-Ceph at this point has no reason at all to bus. He's also a flow busser who doesn't bus out of the blue. He had a moderate amount of towncred to burn and I doubt he would place a vote on a buddy at this point. This obviously doesn't rule out Oka from being the serial killer though.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I've been thinking back and forth the entire night and I keep coming right back to whether his claim makes sense.

Considering the level of swing we've experienced already, low?

Worst case scenario when AK is telling the truth assuming mafia sk also exist:

start (9-3-1) [there pretty much have to be three mafia members since BP died and there are two kills neither of which AK has claimed responsibility for as a vig]
town lynched D1 (8-3-1), nashville gives camera to AK so he has it N1 (unlikely, but possible)
mafia, sk, vig all shoot town N1 (5-3-1)
even town lynching correctly at this point (5-2-1) on D2
can result in them losing parity on D3 (3-2-1) leading to shitty kingmaker situations

-b

This is another huge issue I have with Anatole's claim.

Part of me wonders why he would claim vig so early on in the game with not a lot of votes on him but a vig just doesn't make sense in this setup at all.

I'm left to assume that he claimed because he saw the writing on the wall or he wanted the item to make an unstoppable kill.

Add to that there was a town role that is bulletproof and it just makes more sense as a scum role.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Baboon goes from calling Nash scum to saying a Nash lynch is off the table in less than 7 posts after the one you told me to read.

Any argument regarding Baboon setting Nash up for a mislynch is null and void.

That really isn't true. Mara who knew Mala well and hydra'd with her before would have to buddy and whiteknight her. Ceph who doesn't know Mala as well could push her. If momentum swung onto Nashville, Baboon had left plenty of outs to vote them.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Majiffy, comment on Post 3017. If there really are three kills in a Mini, town only need mislynch once to lose the game.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Do you believe Anatole's claim?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

All it legitimizes is that there is a mention of having an item in Anatole's role PM and he is telling the truth about getting an ability if he receives an item.

Why is that alignment indicative? Why can't he be scum who gets an unstoppable kill if he gets an item and claimed because he wanted that item?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

We have time and I'll discuss other reads later but I want to talk about Nashville:

I get the suspicion there and the concerns about them but there are two things that make me sure that they are town:

1) The way Mala initially tried to sort Tammy was incredibly genuine and knowing Mala as both town and scum, I think it is well outside the range of what scum-Mala is able to fake. It felt like she truly wanted to figure out our affiliation and was doing all sorts of odd and unusual things to get a read on us. As scum, Mala is a rather low profile player. She doesn't bring attention to herself. She pops in once in while to post decent-looking analysis of the game. She is emotionally more subdued than she is as town.

2) I talked about this one already but the way she voted us at the start of D2 for a claim.

I haven't figured out who I want to lynch but I strongly prefer that we not lynch Nashville Dreams and consider other alternatives. I'd be shocked if they flipped scum.

3) They led the lynch on Baboon. Titus doesn't bus. I doubt they would do that in the current gamestate considering they had their pick of mislynches on the table (Oka, Anatole, Majiffy-slot). They make no sense as Baboon's partners.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I'd lynch 5-off in a heartbeat. He's more likely 3rd than mafia in my opinion, but we're ahead, we can afford to take that risk.

-Ceph

This points against Majiffy being scum with Baboon. Ceph is trying to pin that as a third party. I guess he could be WIFOMing so that he is cleared when 5-Off actually does flip mafia but still.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Coming to think of it, the absulutely clueless start from Oka where he calls FT/IHNC scum and Honeybee town is fairly unlikely to come from scum. I suppose he could have faked a "towntell" but I see it as less likely than him as town derping. Tack that onto Csareo's clearly town motivated play and I'm back at Majiffy/Anatole.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Fine

VOTE: 5-off

L-1?

-Ceph

If 5-Off were not scum, I don't think scum-Ceph would place a vote here and cause everyone to get paranoid and the wagon to dismantle.

This actually very

strongly

points to Majiffy being scum.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Here's a visual representation of the votes:

ffery who do you want to lynch?

-b

probably 5-off.

VOTE: 5-off

Even I'm even getting apathetic at this point; let's fucking make something happen

-b

VOTE: 5off


Titus and I were talking about her scum reads this weekend.

I'm still good for a 5off or an oka lynch.

Also I giiggle at suspectin people who are already dead. Just recently did that in a scum newbie game >_>

~M

Cutty - I am kinda busy this morning and was just sticking my head in for a moment. I didn't have time to respond to everything that had happened in the last page of the thread, but that was right there and amusing and, yeah, easy to respond to so I responded.

I'm down with lynching 5 off.
I'd still like Oka lynched.

I agree that we need to do something.
VOTE: 5 off

Does it bother you that a 5-off wagon just blew in on a breeze?

A bit, but people are chomping at the bit for something to happen.

-b

Lissa was already voting 5-off anyways. Nash kinda came out of nowhere but she already expressed interest in lynching 5-off today.

Fine

VOTE: 5-off

L-1?

-Ceph

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Meaning Ffery had expressed paranoia over the speed of the wagon, bork agreed. And THEN Ceph voted putting 5-Off at L-1.

I just don't understand why he would do that if 5-Off/Majiffy were town and cause paranoid Ffery/Bork to unvote and reconsider.

The most solid scum strategy is to frustrate the town by making it harder to mislynch townies that everyone suspects so the suspicion of "why isn't he dead yet" only grows stronger.

On the other hand, I could see Ceph voting a buddy to cause other people to unvote that buddy because they are paranoid and not ready for a lynch yet.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Also Ceph is a flow busser so that makes sense from that standpoint as well.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I want to vote majiffy today.

I'm with you there but you are going to have to explain to me how Anatole is town based on the numbers.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

or you know, towncred.

Elaborate.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I want to vote majiffy today.

I'm with you there but you are going to have to explain to me how Anatole is town based on the numbers.

We're looking for 2 scum. one groupscum and one 3rd party.

No, I was talking about the fact that if Anatole is town, town only needs to mislynch once to lose. That would be a rather ridiculous setup.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Baboon could've also voted 5-0ff for suspicion of him being sk?

It is possible.

Anatole and Majiffy make the most sense to me as Baboon-partners. I'm wrong on one of them so I'm reading their interactions wrong but I'm decently confident by now after re-reading everything that it isn't anybody else in the game.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Majiffy - mafia
Anatole - serial killer that needs to eliminate the neighborhood to win?

That's what I'm feeling right now. I do think Ceph's vote on 5-Off is more damning than Anatole's push on Baboon especially as I would think if Anatole committed to a bus, he would tell Bork that Bork was wrong, not backtrack.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

And all the stuff between Honeybee-5-Off interactions still apply.

I'm heading out but I want to see other's players thoughts. I've spammed enough of them already. I'm on page 102 of my re-read. I'm going to put down a vote once I'm done probably this evening.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

@All, Flashwagon Baboon. Mala had a townread on that slot that's gone stale and I've always liked them as scum.

VOTE: Baboon Pride

This is highly unlikely to be a bus.

VOTE: baboon

now we're getting somewhere

But this on the other hand... wait a minute - I thought you were no longer scumreading Baboon because their interactions with Honeybee were too blatantly defending her to be scum together.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

as far as our wagon goes, nashville is town, but Titus is being idiotically stubborn and she actually hasn't done the reset she's promised to do (I think) at the beginning of this day phase

anatole is, meh. Don't actually remember why he is voting us, though I do remember thinking that he could be town who believed he had an actual case

I keep keep thinking that Lissa is most likely scum between her and 5-off, though ceph still thinks 5-off gambitted, though I still think it's just fluid as fuck and just rediculously advanced

and Oka is probably scum

though if FUT is scum, I still think Oka is the most likely to be the one pushing the CW to protect scumbuddy, and the one most likely taking advantage of titustunnel, so regardless stuff point to Oka being scum

VOTE: Oka

I think this shouldn't have ever dropped, and I don't even know how it happened in the first place.

Here Mara changes her vote from Majiffy-slot to OkaPoka. At the time both she and Majiffy-slot were being wagoned. Ffery had her vote on Oka but said she would vote 5-Off. And I said I would vote FUT but was interrogating 5-Off.

I don't know why Mara would hop off of a buddy's wagon when it was about to go through but the little qualifier there "even if 5-Off is scum, Oka is too" feels like she is planning for a scumflip.

I'm not sold that it is very likely though and it is possible she just wants to throw us off her tracks. But then again, if the alternative was her own lynch, she would want to push the townie's lynch so that it goes through which makes me think the avoidance of her counterwagon to vote Oka points to Majiffy being her partner.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Okay! I'm done catching up. Finally.

Fairly strong townreads on Cutty and Nashville. Weaker townread on Oka.

I'll vote whichever of MAJIFFY or ANATOLE we agree to lynch. I'm perfectly fine with either. Both feel like Baboon/Honey buddies to some extent but I have a strong feeling that whoever I'm wrong about is the serial killer.

If I have to pick, I'd say probably Majiffy as the mafia and Anatole as the SK.

Ffery seems pretty sure it is Majiffy.

So, looking forward to all the non-voters and others thoughts.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Obviously relational tells don't come into play here, but:
2) Quickness of countermanding what 5-off had claimed about the slot along with post 3308 I think point to town and not just 'not groupscum'
-b

Your 2 is a good point.

I disagree. Something felt odd about the way he retracted the gambit. Town-Majiffy doesn't read the game upon replacing in. Scum-Majiffy would have cause to read his predecessor's ISO/scum topic and figure out if his predecessor made any claims that need to be addressed.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

It is possible Anatole is town for calling me obtuse regarding my questions about his role. To him, his role seems so clear and obvious that he thinks people who are unclear or don't understand it are the ones that are obtuse as opposed to his story having holes. That's a town mindset.

Well, it is also possible he is actually scum and I winded up pushing him on something non-alignment indicative and he doesn't feel it is "fair" for him to get lynched for the wrong reasons. But I think it could be town.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Updated w/ Flavor

Interns

Baboon Pride <Intern> (Mafia Neighbor)

FourTrouble <Intern> (Town Neighbor)

- killed by murder flavor

Lissa <Intern> (Town Neighbor)

- killed by murder flavor
Majiffy <Intern> (Town Neighbor)

Okapoka <Executive> (assumedly in charge of station's programming)> (claim: Informed Townie - has flavor info about people who work on the air at the station)

People who work on the air at the station

IHNC <Comedian> (Town 1x Bulletproof)

The Fonz <Minister> (Town ??? Visiting Role)

Cutty Shark <Action Star>(claim: roleblock-immune townie with no innate actions)
Anatole <Magician> (claim: item-enabled roleblock-immune vigilante)

Honey Bee <CEO> (Mafia Goon)

Nashville Dreams <Cameraman> (claim: Some watcher/tracker type of thing)

fferyllt <Tech Person> (Town Mason)

F-16 <Tech Person> (Town Mason)

Fixed my bit. I'm not informed of anything, and I stated as much in the intern PT.

Hmm, so I suppose Lissa asked him what his info was and he retracted it there and them saw your post.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I'm going to be busy today till deadline but I'll keep checking in every hour or so.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Will you vote Majiffy?

Also, Anatole, if you believe Oka and Majiffy are scum, why the preference for Oka?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I openly stated I preferred Majiffy. Ffery's voting Majiffy. And Cutty won't vote Oka. Neither will I as I lean town on him.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Okay, done.

VOTE: Majiffy

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

You know I can only vote one person at a time, right?

Why didn't you respond to me and Bork voting Majiffy? It seems like your issue was whoever is easier to lynch.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

UNVOTE:

I need to head out to class just as the deadline approaches in three hours so I'll put down a vote then. But seriously we need to agree on a lynch. I'm still at Anatole/Majiffy.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Here's the votecount and deadline:

Vote Count 3.3

Words.

Nashville Dreams(0):

Cutty Shark(1):

Majiffy

Majiffy(1):

Cutty Shark

AnatoleKuragin(1):

OkaPoka

F-1_Fighting_Falcon(0):

fferyllt(0):

OkaPoka(1):

Anatole Kuragin

Not Voting(4):

Nashville Dreams, F-16_Fighting_Falcon, fferyllt

With seven alive, it is four to lynch.

(expired on 2014-10-21 16:00:00)

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I'm going to vote Majiffy unless I have to switch in order to avoid a no lynch.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Most annoying thing is Mala is online and active elsewhere but not posting here.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Actually, I need to head out in 5 minutes and I won't be back.

VOTE: Majiffy

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

You were right Bork (assuming you are not the SK). Glad to know I wasn't completely off on my associative analysis with Anatole.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I'd like Nashville Dreams to post their results.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Honestly, I feel kinda dumb lynching Majiffy after every piece of physical evidence pointed to Anatole (strongman role, bussing, etc).

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Updated w/ Flavor

Interns

Baboon Pride <Intern> (Mafia Neighbor)

FourTrouble <Intern> (Town Neighbor)

- killed by murder flavor

Lissa <Intern> (Town Neighbor)

- killed by murder flavor
Majiffy <Intern> (claim: Informed Town Neighbor - scum in group)

Okapoka <Executive> (assumedly in charge of station's programming)> (claim: Informed Townie - has flavor info about people who work on the air at the station)

People who work on the air at the station

IHNC <Comedian> (Town 1x Bulletproof)

The Fonz <Minister> (Town ??? Visiting Role)

Cutty Shark <Action Star>(claim: roleblock-immune townie with no innate actions)
Anatole <Magician> (claim: item-enabled roleblock-immune vigilante)

Honey Bee <CEO> (Mafia Goon)

Nashville Dreams <Cameraman> (claim: Some watcher/tracker type of thing)

fferyllt <Tech Person> (Town Mason)

F-16 <Tech Person> (Town Mason)

Quoting this for reference.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

So, the setup so far is:

SCUM:
Honeybee - Goon
Baboon Pride - Intern/Goon
Anatole - "If you are current holding an item, if you perform the mafia nightkill, nothing short of divine intervention will be able to prevent the attempt from happening."

TOWN:
IHNC - 1X Killproof
Fonz - Preacher

FT - VT/Intern
Lissa - VT/Intern
Majiffy - VT/Intern

Fferyllt - Mason
F-16 - Mason

Unknown (could be town or SK):
Oka - Informed of 4 players roles
Cutty - Unroleblockable
Nashville - Have an item/tracker/watcher

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

If you are current holding an item, if you perform the mafia nightkill, nothing short of divine intervention will be able to prevent the attempt from happening.

@ Mod, can you clarify if there is a typo in the above role PM?

I'm not sure if you intended to reveal whether he started out with an item.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Actually speaks to an SK roleblocker, otherwise what is that strongman doing (it doesn't work against Fonz' protection, I think that is obviously what is meant to be happening here)

-b

I think it is to kill IHNC (and perhaps a potentially bulletproof serial killer).

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I don't believe that the item giver is the serial killer for the simple reason that if the serial killer is bulletproof, the only way for the serial killer to die besides lynch is if they give the item to scum.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Literally the only thing that gives me pause about Nashville is how dodgy Mala's being about posting at all the past few game days, considering her overall sitewide activity level

But that's not enough to override the other factors

-b

I was just about to say this! She's posting everywhere but completely disengaged from this game.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Also Cutty is scum because PoE.

Still like to nolynch before just to be sure.

Look at this.

F-16 dies, and you can track one of us to conf the other. Boom town wins.

I die then you have a 50% chance at confirming for victory. Or we have conf town + town vs scum. Only risky one.
Cutty dies then we win since nash is then scum
Nash dies then cutty scum

I do not believe that this came from the serial killer.

What does he do after a no lynch?

a) Kill Nashville and 1v1 Cutty? I'll vote him over Cutty because I have a stronger townread on Cutty.
b) Kill me and 1v1 Nashville? Cutty will likely vote him over Nashville.
c) Kill Cutty and 1v1 Nashville? He knows I'll vote him over Nashville.

There is no benefit to him for suggesting this.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

And I really hope you don't think it's me. It isn't.

You were my strongest townread for most of the game. Either I'm starting to see what town-Bork looks like or I'll just end up feeling manipulated and used after this game ends and all the time I thought I was working with you was just an illusion.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

You were my strongest townread for most of the game. Either I'm starting to see what town-Bork looks like or I'll just end up feeling manipulated and used after this game ends and all the time I thought I was working with you was just an illusion.

I think the best thing I can say to this is simply to continue to evaluate what you've seen so far, considering any reassurance I give you at this point is null (or at least noisy).

Metawise, this actually has very little resemblance to 346 at this point considering my lack of arguing with you and my long lifespan, but it's a lot like other towngames where I've been alive late.

I only have one SK game and it was a dumb great idea full of dumb (micro 163 I think if you're curious). I won though.

-b

Yeah, I don't really think it is you but I want to reconsider Nashville before voting.

Not sure why Oka would make the kill he has (Anatole).

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I was trying to figure out what to make of the Ffery-kill - I assumed she was right where I was wrong - but that turned out to be Anatole. I'm guessing he just shot one of the Masons expecting the SK to shoot the other.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Her suspects were the same as mine. Our only disagreement was she wanted to lynch group-scum first and I didn't care which scum we lynch.

I figured the SK would shoot one of us unless he/she was in a fairly comfortable position and knew they could get one more mislynch.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Why don't you want to no lynch? Wouldn't town get a 50% chance of winning?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I mean, it is better than the one in three chance that we have now.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Assuming I get night killed, Tituskittens will have a result on one of you guys and would be 1v1'ing that player or the other player depending on what that result is and what their alignment is.

There is a decent chance you will be left to make the final choice.

Assuming they get night killed, the choice will be left to me.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I'm not playing a probability game on it because we're not lynching randomly:

I have a very strong feeling it's going to end up with me having to pick correctly no matter what ends up happening. The only difference is whether you're alive or not.

It's possible that the remaining townie between Oka/Mala could become confirmed in lieu of me, but I'm already pretty solidly on the side of Oka scum. I could also die which puts the game out of my hands.

-b

So, what's the advantage of choosing now? If the decision is your hands tomorrow, then there should be no problem at all waiting a day.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Okay, so I thought about this and here's the thing:

No lynching is normally the optimal play unless there's confirmed town alive in which case the conf-town will get nk'd. But in this scenario, we have a player whose role necessitates that they 1v1 someone in LYLO either by investigating them guilty or the other innocent. And if they are scum, it still necessitates that they 1v1. So, LYLO after I get killed isn't a 3-way-anyone-could-be-scum LYLO. We lose a conftown and we GAIN a conftown as well by no lynching so the number of conftown stays the same. The number of unconfirmed town reduces by one. So, here it is the optimal play.

I'd rather not vote today, and we can't lynch without all the players voting so we either no lynch now which is preferable or we wait a couple of weeks (boring). If you are the one who is making the decision, then I'm happy for that and I trust you to pick correctly.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

If we get an abbreviated night I'll actually be more willing to accept an NL

-b

Yeah, abbreviated day and abbreviated night is best for me.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Oka has his vote on no lynch, we hammer and just hope everyone turns in an action by tonight and the thread opens again.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Actually now I'm convinced it is probably Oka based on your reaction.

IDK, I'll wait for Titus to check in and see where they want to place their vote.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I don't know if Oka's predecessor is capable of coming up with the fake-claim that he did if he was really a serial killer roleblocker.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

The more I think about it, the more I'm doubting myself. I'd rather no lynch now and move on.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

If I'm dead tonight, I trust you guys to use your best judgment and win us the game - whichever of you is town.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Titus, do you want to lynch today or not?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Same question.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Tbh I think Oka might be a SK with flavor knowledge of players. I think I made myself clear in that. I think there is a RB'r in the game or Fronz was a RB'r and he just didn't know it.

N2 and N3.

I don't know if Fonz's role fits with RB though.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I'm going to vote no lynch in a bit if you guys are ready.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I don't want to go through another day either which was why I was trying to push people to vote quickly and end the day so they can decide tomorrow. I figured a day of back and forth followed by a no lynch followed by another day of back and forth would be boring but impatience is probably my biggest weakness.

But the potential to be RB'd is actually a good point.

Anyways, I'm much more confident you are town after the above post.

I have no idea whether it is CS or Oka. CS has been incredibly town for most of the game and this is exactly how I'd expect Bork to play as town. But most of it is based on him not being groupscum. One thing Ffery mentioned about Bork was that once he found out that we were Masons, he immediately went into "solve" mode and she believed that was a reason why CS isn't the SK. Personally I have no idea what to look for in SK Bork and if he was genuinely hunting for the other team and just being town, I don't know if there would be a difference at all. The biggest difference I would expect to see is today when there are no more scum left.

Consider the night kills: FourTrouble, Lissa, Anatole: who would be more likely to make those kills? I doubt CS would kill FT when he was a wagon for most of D1 and was townreading CS. I doubt he would kill Lissa but then it makes sense in a way because he wouldn't want to kill me or Ffery considering our strong townreads on CS. The Anatole kill shows that the SK wanted to eliminate scum. This shows that they don't believe they would be lynched. If Oka was the SK and felt he was next in line to be lynched, he would have shot a Mason so he bargain with Anatole and create a prisoner's dilemma. That points more to CS. The Lissa kill is weird. I don't even know if Oka would think that Lissa is a threat to him and shoot her. I'm going to reread some of his scum PT's to figure out how he makes his kills. CS killing Lissa is weird as well though. But possible if they wanted to eliminate someone who is universally townread while still leaving me and Ffery alive in the game as we townread them.

Actually the more I write, the more convinced I'm becoming that CS is the SK.

But, I'm really unwilling to lynch them today and that's part of the reason I want to no lynch and wait and see.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Okay, I don't know why my predecessor didn't say anything. I feel my role is more believable if I claim now, rather than later.
I may be doing something wrong, because I have never had an informational role in this manner. The passive role allows me to know the identity of 4 random players.

Anyways, I never claim D1, but I'm trusting my better judgement here. My role is rather useless, anyways.

It is incredibly hard to believe that the following came from the serial killer.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

In fact, I'll claim it

Georgio. Just Georgio.

Good luck with that shit

-b

And I know you're telling the truth.
Georgio, the action star

So we know for sure that Cutty Shark is Georgio the Action Star.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

That, or anatole and baboon are on the same team. Explains why he's redirecting attention off of baboonpride.
I swear on my life that my role PM says baboon is maxmillian the magician.

The role is very obviously true.

My question is whether Nat would give the serial killer the flavor of two townies and two scum? Or give a townie the flavor of two scum, one town, and the serial killer?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I think I was clear that I want us to no lynch and get nk'd so I don't fuck this up.

I was also clear that I wasn't going to vote you today.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

If you're losing confidence in your bork townread, remember your Skrew townread. Please.

Skrew townread is based on stuff I picked up in Skrew's scumgame in Quickness and the lack of those things here.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Show me a person who is telegraphing voting me tomorrow and I'll show you someone who might just be alive at lylo

-b

Okay. If you were the SK, would you have made those kills? If so, that's fine. It is still null. If not, why not?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

It is not armchair meta because it is something I developed through personal experience. And that meta points to you not being mafia. So, I don't get your issue with it.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Lissa wanted oka dead, too

-b

This is true. Althogh she was changing her mind every couple of posts.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Bork, can you link your SK game?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

OkaPoka meta:

TOWN:
Newbie 1505 (VT, lynched D1)
Micro 349: Clinic Madness (Town Doctor, lynched D1)
Mini 1582: Formerfish's First Foray (VT, lynched D1)
Newbie 1523 (Town tracker, killed N3)
Newbie 1492 (Town 1X BP, survived and won)


SCUM:
Micro 344:Vengeful - Lynched D1, (Scum PT)
Micro 352: Chosen Mafia - Lynched D4, (Scum PT)
Newbie 1507 - Game was a draw (survived), (Scum PT)
Micro 370: Gerrymander Mafia - Lynched D1, (Scum PT)

~~~

Going to go through these this evening. The one thing that struck me was the Oka is lynched surprisingly often. 100% of the time he was town but not a PR (3/3), he was mislynched D1. (I'm not counting the doc as a PR since it was a clinic madness game and everyone is a doc).

So, maybe you should be giving him consideration based on VI-ness Ffery. I'd be interested in your thoughts on his meta.

Oka in one of his scum PT's (Gerrymander):
Subject: Micro 370: Gerrymander Mafia (Mafia Chat)

Yeah.

This playerlist will own me.

WE have to take out:

ETL, Maestro, Majiffy, and Xay, Those players will roflstomp us.

Subject: Micro 370: Gerrymander Mafia (Mafia Chat)

Yeah.

This playerlist will own me.

WE have to take out:

ETL, Maestro, Majiffy, and Xay, Those players will roflstomp us.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Subject: Micro 370: Gerrymander Mafia (Mafia Chat)

My last word: Kill ETL

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1&start=25

He definitely kills people that suspect him so that might point to a Lissa kill from him.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

? explain this sorcery

The kills actually make more sense if you are the SK.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Subject: Newbie 1507 Mafia QT

IDK and IDC.

I think Pea doesn't suspect me to kill.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

mmmmm hmmmm

If I was sk cutty wouldn't be breathing.

Why not?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Since he would be larger threat.

And Lissa is so easy to push for a lynch.

Everyone was townreading Lissa and Lissa suspected you.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

And you don't think that last second jump off wagon was scummy as hell?

Only townread I can recall is Fonz's I won't vote you cuz you new.

Perhaps you thought she was scum and shot her because of that.

Fonz wasn't townreading her because new. He was townreading her because of her reaction to 5-Off. I was townreading her as well.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Me being alive this long also makes sense as I was townreading you.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Or a person is framing me.

LOL. Nobody could have predicted that you would be alive at MYLO and be in consideration for a lynch and that I would be looking at your past scumgames to see how you make kills.

If you are town, please stop using bad arguments as that is just making me suspect you more than Cutty.

@ Mala, who do you think is scum?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Here's an SK role made by Natirasha btw: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p6047781

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Hmmmmmmmm

What are your thoughts on my response to you?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Oka's role feels like the type of role Nat would give to the SK.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Bork/Sleepy, claim your entire role again (paraphrase). I know you did earlier but I want to see the whole paraphrase again.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

how?

With the SK receiving "information."

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

We are

Georgio. Just Georgio.

Our flavor is that we were hired as an action star for a new show after being out of work since the 80s

We have one passive ability "Balls of Steel" - roleblocks do not work against us

-b

So basically it is completely useless as a vanilla role. What is even the meaning of roleblocks not working against a vanilla role?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Considering we do have a stated method for assigning powers out in this game, um, that.

That makes more sense.

I'm thinking about the possibility of you being an unblockable serial killer who fake-claimed your real role minus the kill part but that makes no sense at all as to why you would fake-claim that.

Leaning towards voting Oka atm.

Want to hear from Mala.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

You say you would have killed people you know. Why would you possibly kill me or Ffery when we were townreading you so hard?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

And why would Oka kill Anatole as opposed to one of the Masons? That still worries me. The kill seems to have been made by someone who didn't expect to be lynched.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

And why would Oka kill Anatole as opposed to one of the Masons? That still worries me. The kill seems to have been made by someone who didn't expect to be lynched.

I don't have an answer. It's possible he thought I was actually the last scum like he said yesterday.

-b

That's understandable. I was asking you the questions not to play a "what-if" game with you but to figure out why you never wondered if you could be wrong and Nashville could be scum. I get your reasoning for that but I wanted to make sure it outweighed any reason to believe Oka was town.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Okay, I thought about this. I'm not waiting one more day so here are the pro's and con's just in case anyone in the dead thread has pegged Bork as scum and is yelling at me to vote him.

1) As far as who played more pro-town in the game between Oka and Cutty, it would have to be Cutty by a mile. Oka lurked and did nothing. While it is more playstyle indicative than alignment, there is no doubt SK motivation to stay under the radar and lurk it out. Tituskittens did this as well but I doubt they are the SK.

2) I actually think Ffery's point about Bork immediately jumping into solve mode once the Masons were outed is actually a good point.

3) Oka kills people that suspect him. Lissa and Anatole fall into that category. I don't understand why he wouldn't kill the Masons and push Anatole as scum though as he would have been the default lynch. But it fits with his meta perfectly.

4) Oka buddies people as scum as well. This is shown through his scum PTs and the way he plays the game. Besides the kills made don't feel like the kills made by a competent player.

5) Role: it fits with the kind of roles Nati has provided for SK's in the past. Cutty's role on the other hand is just a ridiculous thing to fake-claim. Csareo's use of it felt genuine but he could have been trying to find scum.

Considering all the evidence points to Oka, I'm going with lynching Oka today.

VOTE: OkaPoka

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Just so you know, me reading your exchange at this point doesn't make any sense. I made up my mind and if I'm wrong, then I'm wrong and Bork and Sleepy played really well. But actually considering the arguments you are making now when both of you have the same wincon (get the other lynched) will just wind up in a victory for whoever is more eloquent. Oddly enough, Oka feels more genuine. But I'm just waiting on Titus basically.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

You are not being particularly convincing. You lurked the whole game while Cutty contributed loads of analysis. Now you suddenly have a ton of motivation and drive to lynch Cutty and are pointing out evidence against him that was available right from D1 that you never mentioned when Cutty claimed.

I guess I could be wrong and it is not something I'm 100% confident on but I'm just going with where there's the majority of evidence.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Mala, what's going on?

@ Nat, can we have a votecount of all the votes that are in play?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I suppose the bastard element is that the game continues even when we lynch all the scum and Nat randomly kills an extra person each night.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

How many to no lynch?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Let's see what this does:

VOTE: Nashville Dreams

I feel like I'm being trolled so I'll stop posting in a bit.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Or they have a double vote. But if they do, this day should never be hapenning.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

honestly i dont fucken know
its so weird

maybe there's something up with the letters like Oka said.

:\

Do you want to no lynch? Clearly we can't lynch.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

http://wordsmith.org/anagram/anagram.cg ... t=1000&a=n

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

VOTE: No lynch

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I was pretty tempted to vote SSK as well and the temptation came a split second after I voted NL. I even PM'd Nat about it. Ugh.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

F16
I'd like to discuss your townread of me now please

I had a basis for your scumgame having pushed your lynch in Quickness. Then immediately played with town-you in Fantasy Camp. This wasn't a replica of Fantasy Camp but it definitely felt miles apart from Quickness.

~~~

I don't consider flavor as relevant to a mafia game ever. I think it is part of the site rules that flavor is just for fun but w/e. Can't complain since it was advertised as bastard and meant to amuse the mod and we were told about it upfront.

Hopefully the dead thread stop acting like they totally would have figured it out. You guys are clearly brilliant and everything. Great job!

Tammy, I wasn't swiping at you. I was trying to bait Anatole into giving me an alignment indicative response. I hoped Ffery wouldn't have kept pushing it when I said I was more interested in his response than hers but it should have been pretty obvious.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I don't intend to count this in my record at all.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I don't think that was the real issue with the setup.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Not to mention that acting like everything would have been so clear and we'd have figured out that someone not in the game is making those kills if only I claimed that I don't have a night action. Lol. More likely, Nashville might have been mislynched for it. And if it was that clear to the dead players, they probably would have pointed it out while they were still alive. Wish there was an unspoiled dead PT. I don't normally hate it when the dead thread is spoiled but this is one of the exceptions and the major reason some people hate them.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I think most of the dead PT was fairly cordial. Shouldn't have said "dead PT." Should have specifically called out Tammy and Ffery circle-jerking about how they totally would have figured it out and the rest of us are stupid.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I can read, you know.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I probably shouldn't have put it that way. I was annoyed with how the game turned out after spending two months on it and four townies trying to seriously figure out which one of them is scum and actually putting time and mental energy agonizing over it left me drained. I know you guys didn't mean to be offensive or do it on purpose but it came across that way.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Acting like bringing it up would get me lynched is a ridiculous line of thinking. I don't think that is what would have happened and you thinking that you are so influential that the mere suggestion that you lynch someone means that they are lynched is just kidding yourself.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Thanks for your advice! I'm really in the mood to listen to you tell me what's mean and what's not. I really need to head off to class and I'm just going to stop discussing this game for the good of everyone involved and never sign up for a game advertised as "bastard" again.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

F-16, I agree with Tammy (although from context clues it sounds like you're talking to ffery). I was really pissed when the news broke and I vented a bit, but I was angry at the situation and I do not hold this experience against anyone as I understand that no one was acting out of a deliberate desire to make this a bad experience.

I think it's a common dead thread thing with 'if only they would <X>' even if realistically the only reason they know about <X> is because they've been spoiled, but I am just saying that should not be used as evidence that this was likely to be solved in-game, because I do not think it was. It doesn't annoy me that they had the conversation

I'm over it. I'm not holding the "experience" itself against anyone. I was more annoyed that after losing to a near impossible situation, I find that most of the attitude in the dead PT amounted to "I still wish Falcon would tell them that we don't actually have a night action. I don't know why he's not outing that because it should make it clear that there is someone or something with a controlling role," " Also, I really hope that Falcon outs that he doesn't have a night action and I have no idea why he didn't." "But I think ffery is the only one who would crack the code as she was trying to figure out what it could be." "between the two of us, we might have put it together then. I was afraid to bring much of this up in the game thread because I didn't want to get f-16 lynched even if he might be channeling an SK at night."

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

It still felt that way and I really do not care to continue this conversation. I was just explaining to Bork why I specifically was annoyed at the dead PT.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I thought about this today. Sorry for overreacting.