Mini 1621: Frog Mafia (KERO)

[massive]

VOTE: Gendaberry

I think, after getting Fezzig in Princess Bride Mafia, that this may be the single most appropriate role PM I've ever received.

Primate

: So I'm like, ooh really? Which one? So I go and look ... Famous Cats, Mini 413. Dang, that was a while ago! skim skim skim HEY WAIT A MINUTE YOU RVSED ME IN THAT GAME TOO

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Since it's "random" wouldn't we all KNOW they're meaningless facts?

unvote
vote Jackel98

[massive]

Waffle is pinging my newbie scum radar. So is BooKitty (may be some associative action in there).

And there's no way anyone should like Victor's post 93, that "vote twice inside the same post" action is SUPER forced.

[massive]

Waffle is pinging my newbie scum radar.

What precisely pinged your scumdar, please?

I'm not accusing you of being scum, yet. Just stating my opinion as far as play. I'm just a dumb newbie though

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Also massive, what do you think of Garmr and 2birds? You seem to have mostly stayed out of it.

They're both goobers who know a lot of Mafia terminology.

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Waffleghost

: Anything specific about Bookitty that strikes you as particularly town?

[massive]

Here, BooKitty, this one's for you:

unvote
vote WaffleGhost

[massive]

gambit

Please stop saying this.

[massive]

Some people (I won't mention any names) need to rely less on meta and rely more on in-game events. Just sayin'.

[massive]

Waffle is null- with a slight scum lean after looking into it but what's interesting is the last 3 votes of him were based off the lol case while massives is a no case.

You can see my 131 for exactly where my vote came from, and which is way more succinct than the cases you think are "good" (especially since Gendaberry's is basically just expounding on this).

Primate

: I think that must be an artifact of earlier times, because I'm the same way with my vote. I try and take care to place it where I think it goes and I HATE moving it. I'm not crazy about players who will vote seven people in the first three pages, it drives me nuts.

[massive]

So Waffleghost ... in that quoted post, you're saying that townies shouldn't be concerned about looking town -- they should instead be hunting scum. Which are you doing right now? Looking town, or hunting scum?

[massive]

I really hate GreyICE's game. I don't care if you're town or scum, you don't have to be a dick to play the game.

[massive]

316? 384? Neither of those are directed towards Garmr, so if you're saying you're irritated at all of us because Garmr is grinding your gears, I'd say it's time to head to bed and wake up on the other side tomorrow.

Garmr's a goober, although 386 was dickish as well.

Flubber: You're town, this is your town game. Boo and Victor are probably town as well, and so is GreyICE, despite his playstyle. I'm leaning town on Primate but would like to see more from him. I thought Gendaberry might be OK and would like to see more from the hydra that replaced him, but I am notoriously bad at reading hydras because they are a part of the game that happened during my hiatus. I'm not crazy about Garmr or 2birds but only one of them can be scum between them; they don't have the mental sticks to scum-organize and playact their interaction from earlier today. Jackel's pretty bad, despite being only 9 posts in. (Compare to Feysal, who also has 9 posts but seems to be actually scumhunting, and is probably town.) Waffle is who I'm voting for. Who'd I miss? ProHawk. Null. Seems to be taking Easy Street in terms of scumhunting.

[massive]

Vote count please because that's the same thing I thought when I saw the flip from overnight -- "Hrm there must be a Toad neighbor who's scum."

[massive]

If we were asking two average / above-average scum to figure out that all the scum were toads and to not claim a toad, I'd say yeah, "I'm a toad" is no reason to lynch someone.

But we're talking about Waffle and Jackel so far, which is not exactly some super scum team. And Jackel's done nothing to prove himself anywhere near town even BEYOND his neighbor claim.

And I can't see any reason to jump OFF of Jackel.

vote Jackel

[massive]

You would think I would get SOME credit and a bit of a break, seeing as I was among the first to ping on Waffle and ride his train to his scumlynch, but I guess not. Not too much has changed since my last bunch of reads. Wasn't crazy about Jackel then, and his claim out of nowhere seems more like something he was doing to give himself townie points and townie cred rather than from any kind of pressure.

Jackel

: What did you and Feysal discuss in the neighbor thread?

[massive]

Also the fact flubber is in titus's town reads pretty much proves his scum knowing titus's history :p

What in Titus's history makes you think this? What exactly is this saying?

[massive]

Well this escalated quickly. I can't see any reason to fake a cop claim in this scenario, with zero pressure on VDA. But I'm curious how 2birds thinks VDA "screwed up," and I think being as belligerent as GreyICE has been, that's also a risky play as scum. So ... to the quick reread.

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Victor

- Maybe you can start by telling us why you decided to investigate GreyICE last night?

[massive]

Yup, that was not nearly as concrete as we were led to believe.

unvote
vote GreyICE

Maybe unimportant, but should be noted that I am also a real frog as opposed to a cartoon one?

[massive]

They killed 2birds because he was making such a squawk about protective roles that somebody figured he might be a doc. Not sure who that points at, but I'd probably start with Primate or the hydra.

[massive]

Total Wreck

: I don't know what to say. The theater was dark!

[massive]

Pretty sure I'm going to vote Primate here in a mo, just re-reading some bits and will post up something a little more compelling. Interested in the answer to 694.

[massive]

Juls (GreyICE), in her four posts, asked other people about Primate more than she talked to Primate:

post 173 : Asks me if Primate was scum or town in a game from seven years ago; ProHawk about his vote sitting on Primate

------

279: Subtle defense of WaffleGhost (see reply to Gendaberry). Also hard townreading GreyICE despite only four Juls posts and six GreyICE posts, mostly joke posts.

282: Soft-defends GreyICE to Prohawk.

292: Waffle's still just "weird."

308: Completes his soft defense of GreyICE.

543: Calls Prohawk's vote on GreyICE scummy when you could forgive anyone for voting GreyICE with how crass he was being.

557, 567: So I'm pretty sure at this point that Primate knows VDA is a cop with a guilty and is trying very hard to lure him out and force him to reveal / confirm. Ultimately gets what he wants and still pushes for the cop fullclaim in 623.

------

Better than what I got on anyone else. Have a nice town block though so I think this one is all but wrapped up.

vote Primate

[massive]

And I have 3/4 as town on that train, and then it all depends on how much you believe Bookitty targetted Garmr to get to the fourth.

[massive]

The prohawk thing is a defense of GreyIce yeah, though from my perspective it was more the fact that I thought ProHawks reason was pretty terrible and he was just using it as a distraction so he didn't have to do any proper scumreading. I didn't think it worked logically and still don't really. I don't really understand your
"Could forgive anyone for voting GreyICE with how crass he was being" point either.

I went back and reread this because I thought it was pretty clear and ... I realized I couldn't identify WHO you are defending GreyICE from. This post says "Total" at the top but Total wasn't voting GreyICE at that time, and hadn't voted for him at all since replacing in.

[massive]

Ha, guess I should have read my own post, since it's ProHawk's vote from 232. It actually looks genius in retrospect.

[massive]

Happy Thanksgiving everyone.

Garmr -- If you're OK with the Primate lynch, why switch off to join a smaller wagon?

[massive]

This may seem like an obtuse request, but would you please outline your case on Flubber? I looked at your ISO and I couldn't determine what it was.

[massive]

Ok quickly then. First couple are meta tells

Flubber doesn't really read the game carefully when his scum as his not hunting so he does fuck ups like the way he reacted to my miller claim even through I said I wasn't.

Your miller claim "gambit" was idiotic so why would anyone's reaction to it be suspect?

He tend to sheep more while his scum when his town he does his own thing more independent.

Links to games to back this up?

He was hesitant to hammer jackal even through he said he would and thought he was scum and was still pushing me..

At this point Jackel is more likely town than you are, so why is being hesitant to hammer town a scum tell? At the very least, it's super unlikely that they're BOTH scum.

I can no longer tell if garmr is tunneling scum or can't handle getting his peepee smacked.

Actually he had 72 hours to get over himself.

I was pretty much considered confirmed town here but he couldn't read the game state town flubber wouldn't miss this.

The only thing that "confirms" you as town is whether Bookitty targeted you or not, so it's all speculation despite her posts. And despite this, you can't seem to actually ACT town, so this is OMGUS.

He sheeps one of my points even through he was massivly scum reading me at the time with no questions asked.

Link to your post where this is one of your "points."

This sounds like sarcastic fun with a scum buddy

At very best this is your confirmation bias.

He knows waffles going to flip scum so his trying to link me up here.

And same.

There's more to my case but I'm to lazy to write it all.

You're never going to get anyone to go along with you with that attitude. Certainly not me.

[massive]

That was a fun way to test his reactionary personality, no?

[massive]

Not crazy how quickly he accepted Garmr's "I'm confirmed town" statement but Jackel was already in my town pool due to interactions between him and GreyICE D2 (when GreyICE was completely confident in his ability to at least not get lynched). Could be just that I'm not crazy about Garmr's "I'm confirmed town" statement in general.

[massive]

Who is more likely to let VDA (claimed cop who caught one scum already) live last night? According to 621, both Primate and Prohawk would have known they could have been targeted last night, and therefore would have at least considered killing VDA.

Was it because of 2birds insistence that there was a protective role in the game? I disagree with most of his speculation about BooKitty's role setup, but he seemed so adamant that it could have impacted scum's nightkill choice.

And I think I'd really rather have VDA's nightchoice info from last night.

[massive]

Massive why did you feel the need to defend me?

Because I've had a strong town read on you since Day One, and one thing that I've had to learn to do since coming back is work better with my town reads.

[massive]

Oh sweet gods in heavens. ArcAngel -- we know you're town, please try and act like town.

[massive]

Returning from big weekend. Will go back and read the last page but I'm still on Primate and I don't see any reason that would change.

[massive]

hey
buddy buddy
can we lynch prohawk

You'll understand my reluctance to follow you when your path of lynching includes me, right?

And it still drives me nuts that Garmr feels like he has to say he's confirmed town on every game page.

[massive]

OK NOW Garmr is confirmed town. Sorry Garmr, ha.

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Orcinus

: I know why *I* think Flubber is town. Why do YOU think Flubber is town? Because you're only town based on your predecessor's interactions with GreyICE.

[massive]

Care to point us to that game?

[massive]

Care to point us to that game?

Normal 1609.

Good luck filtering through that shitfest.

I was WAY more active there than I've been here, ha.

My problem with ProHawk is that, at this point, it's all POE. Arcangel is town. Victor is the cop that gave us GreyICE. Orcinus is town because of GreyICE's attacks on Feysal. I like my Flubber read. But there's nothing beyond that really that makes me go, yeah, ProHawk is the obvious last scum.

[massive]

if anybody knows what my little birdie does, tell me. otherwise massive is getting a gift tonight

Since you just requoted it, it reminded me I wanted to ask about this. What does this mean?

[massive]

When did you get your gift from Total Wreck?

[massive]

Still have 8 days for deadline. Flubber, Victor, talk to me.

[massive]

Still have 8 days for deadline. Flubber, Victor, talk to me.

Who else should I scum read and why

Well, let's start with ProHawk : Do you have an actual scumread on him?

[massive]

Do you want to expound on that, or do you want to just ride the townread that some of us stated we have on you? Because posts like that don't help with the feeling that I'm missing something obvious.

[massive]

So this is just OMGUS right? Or can you explain GreyICE's blind vote for Jackel in 424, and subsequent posts?

[massive]

I thought I already stated it so I can't tell if you're scumhunting or trying to look busy.

I didn't remember anything so let's go to the videotape.

I'll throw out the "voted for the mod" silliness because it was RVS and I don't even think YOU could sell it as legit.

Prohawk is scum because fuck his scum read on GreyICE.

Interesting. Pushes Prohawk as scum and GreyICE as town.

Prohawk wasn't even on the GreyICE wagon.

After the GreyICE lynch. Obviously can't go back to the first reason to vote him, but still wanting to push Prohawk as scum.

I'll discredit myself as using omgus so nobody else has to waste their breath over it.

And straight-up admitting you have no scum read on him.

So ... want to try again?

[massive]

With no real push in-between, but a riff with VDA which ends up in a push for VDA?

What does it look like to you?

Here's the problem. At the time of his vote, there's nothing going on with Jackel. It seems unlikely that he would abandon the bad desperado vote on Garmr to start a bandwagon on his own buddy. And he has to push against VDA because VDA is possibly repping a guilty, and that's unrelated to whether he wants to abandon Jackel or not. You seem to be saying he was quick to abandon Jackel once the heat got turned up, but that's not completely accurate.

[massive]

I'll be interested in hearing the case as well, not in any danger of missing the deadline.

Orcinus, you use your goodie tonight, I'll use mine.

[massive]

I was getting the same way, and I think that's normal when you get down to PoE and there's ... just ... no case beyond it. Even then you start looking at your townreads and start thinking, geez, is AA confirmed town? Total Wreck was totally town but AA can't help but do scummy things ... Was the Victor / GreyICE guilty a gambit? ... it gets crazy. I eventually got to the point where I knew I was bulletproof, was suspicious of Orc, but figured if ProHawk wasn't scum then I was the likely Orc nightkill so we could move on to the next day at full strength. Ha!