Mini 1622: (Hilariously) Unbalanced Mafia [-Over-]

[Mathdino]

Mollie is trying to figure out who she needs to kill tonight. End of story. And if she can lynch me today, that will help her out tremendously because she won't have to worry about choosing between people that could out her.

There is also a zero world chance I am going to trust mollie's ability to protect anyone.

P-EDIT: I only investigate odd night, and get results at the end of the even night. I am not up to investigate anyone again until N5.

P-EDIT2: Keep reading Mollie.

FFS man, just tell us which group you're investigating in.

[Mathdino]

Godfather seems plausible.

This is the spanner in the works. It's the thing that only JK and ultimate cop can counter.

I have no plan for this. Thoughts?

[Mathdino]

And that person is now locked. Which sucks.

If he investigates an invest, mollie can choose to protect whomever.
If he investigates a non PR, mollie should protect his target.
If he investigates mollie, mollie has to protect him for this to work.

Either way I say we lynch ika if ProHawk's not already investigating him.

[Mathdino]

HEY MATH YOU STILL HAVE NOT ANSWERED MY QUESTION!

WHY DO YOU CARE SO MUCH?

1. I don't really care to read him other than answering your obsessive questions about him because unless he's a godfather, he's confirmable.
2. Completely disregarding any role stuff, I had a huge scumread on him.
3. That said, consider that ultimate cop is precisely the sort of thing mastin would include in a game full of roles that fuck up investigations. Furthermore unless mastin provided fakeclaims (which seems unlikely considering Sonic claimed someone else's role) ProHawk would have no way of knowing that there wasn't already a "bypass all modifiers" role in the game.
Also the fact that he didn't try to bend over backwards to explain his role makes me think he's town and didn't think that people wouldn't understand it. aka he probably didn't make it up. It's also pretty consistent and he has a point when he says it'd be easy to just come up with a fake result and that he'd have no real reason to constantly stall today and yesterday. What would he be waiting on? More thinking time than he already had from the night phase? Something from the mod?

ProHawk's claim coming from scum just doesn't make sense.

[Mathdino]

You want analysis? I checked ika's ISO for comments on Naz and Sonic and a couple on setup. Observe:

Spoiler: ika ISO

so im going to do this again jsut to piss off dino (but semi seriosu about it)

mass rolecall anyone?

Consistent with him as town, seems like he'd want to get the death miller stuff out there early.

oh, forgot this,

VOTE: sonic boom

im prob going to sleep. i might be around

RVS vote.

ok so i caught up but feeling lazy and tired sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

read list

1. shos - dunno, his last scum game is largly outdated, what was the case on him before? he was gambiting or some stupid shit?

2. Nazarene (TierShift+Aegor) - i have trouble reading aegor so im kinda waiting this one out. teir i have seen just be a derp

3. Voidedmafia - havent played with ever so im going to see how it unfolds

4. Sonic Boom (Metal Sonic+Titus) - its fucking titus, shes alwasy scum

5. Bulbazak - truth be told i have this huge biased with the stly he does and wil by default scumr ead it
6. EddieFenix - afk?
7. ProHawk - could be scum, i want to see how he plays out first
6. ika - not a hammer but a troll role
9. Doyouthinkhesaurus (Mathdino+blindmewithscience) - town considir it a mixture of meta and ~reasons~
10. BBmolla - scum, a major overreaction to my "first" read list
11. pirate mollie - mollie needs to talk with me, if shes known to be like me i will solve her merly by interacting
12. Jackel98 - i still dont get the case outside of "one-shot miller"
13. DrippingGoofball - im just ignoring untill further notice after bulbas agme.

Basically no substance on those people, but then again not much substance on everyone else.

@naz, im here for a bit, wanna talk?

His first interaction with Nazarene. Naz bites:

Sure. Who's scum and why aren't you voting em?

i need to go back and reread, but offhand:

scums
guile - mostly off pretacetor atm, but im surpirsed guile has yet to say who he targeted with JKing.
hawk - he kinda stated his reason already why others think hes scum. and while i agree, i got this odd feeling that i cant shake, hes more of a gut call

titus slot - this one is more biassed if anything mostly b/c i scum read titus every time but she has not been on skype or anywhere else, plus a policy on titus slots are always good

i could see a potential scum in the dino/bulb but logic isnt my forte so im going to let them reslove it.

null
PM - she said why she was ignoring me but its kinda annoying to em and doesnt allow me to interact with her or try to figure out what shes thinking
eddie - his major 180 turn on day 1 is what pings me, i could see it going either way

naz - prob by the end of our dicussion i will have a more set read on you, i haven played enough with either of you to be able to just peg in 2 posts like some

town
DBG - is most likely town but still always a good policy lynch XP
issot - while i still have some issues about 1-shot miller, its more of the timing of the claim and how it was handled is what makes me think its town

This is where he starts really pushing his Titus policy lynch business. The problem is, it was mostly half-assed. I was going to say this reads town but I checked for more posts and he honestly only seemed to propose it as an idea that makes sense from his and only his standpoint rather than convincing people into it.

@bulb: i aim to displease, wanna talk about my disspaointing reads, i should eb around in a few hrs.

Let's start with how lazy they are, how you repeatedly try to stay hands off while lamenting that you can't engage with anyone (or dowright refusing to engage), that you have no real townreads on anyone (and your actual townreads can be PL'd at a moment's notice), and how your Sonic Boom read is BS, since it revolves around how you always scumread Titus, even though Titus hasn't been posting in this game. It all seems rather contrived to me.

i could basicly sum up your entire agrument with your own sentance that its entirly YPOV. yes ita argubly a copout answer but if you really want me to wall agrue with you i can. so im going to be point blank with that.

however i will adress one point toward you spcificly right now, the titus one.

[ spoiler=huge fucking rant ]unless if you have played extensivly with me to the extents that titus has with em as well as know the history that we share and the pain she emotional strife she has given me, you have no fucking rights to ever riddicule me on why i want her policy lynched.

If you want i can link you to just about every damn game where i have played with ehr, most acutaly result in me edventaly going full out agro on her.

i can name 3 games offhand where she has agroed me to me beserk point where i litarly didnt care about anyone or the damn gamestate and only wanted to tunneldrive her to oblivion.

the very first game i played with her under annons she was mayor and confirmed town, late game she myslynched me and call out my rage to be fucking fake. i blew a fucking gasket at her and she never once though otherwise

in a wh game i misread her and though she was town for the longes time, after so long when she tried to myslynch me i went full out agro on her and had a huge fucking piss fight with a confirmed town jsut to in the fucking end get her lynched.

a game where i was scum and she was 3rd party scum she misrepped my "i hammer regardless" where it has been the only time where i have actualy gone to a breaking poitn as scum to go full out agro on a player.

if you look at any game with me and titus we almost always have a fight off and it resluts in me trying to lynch her b/c she has at times became toxic to me and my play[ /spoiler ]

if you want to talk ot me on the ohter point i am more then happy to but again, its seems like a lot of it is YPOV, if you want to hear out MPOV then i can do that

That doesn't answer my question, ika. Why aren't you votng your scumreads?

scums
guile - mostly off pretacetor atm, but im surpirsed guile has yet to say who he targeted with JKing.

Okay I googled pretacetor and literally the only results I got were your posts on MS :/ what do you mean?

hawk - he kinda stated his reason already why others think hes scum. and while i agree, i got this odd feeling that i cant shake, hes more of a gut call

Come on, go further...

titus slot - this one is more biassed if anything mostly b/c i scum read titus every time but she has not been on skype or anywhere else, plus a policy on titus slots are always good

Titus ain't even playing.

-Tier

i told you i want shny hammer. i will get to it when i feel like it. something is pining me and i want to see how it unfolds.

its guts, what more do you want? give me something to work.

-.-

im going to refer you back to my rant as well as say if the player is on the player list, they are technacly playing

His major point on Titus. Honestly, I don't know how to read this. I'd like input on this post.
In other news, it's almost like Nazarene is coaching ika by scumreading him. Naz doesn't really seem to push ika much either.

VOTE: sonic

JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY

i get home from break from work form emotional conflitc to see this?

SONIC SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY.

I DONT GIVE A FLYING FUCK IF YOUR TOWN OR NOT AT THIS POINT

ALL YOU HAVE DONT WAS GIVE OFF FUCKIGN SHIT. YOU HAVE LIKE NO FUCKIGN CARES FOR ANYONE IN THIS DAMN GAME IT SEEMS.

I WANTED TO PLAY THIS GAME WITH ENJOYMENT AND ALL I SEE FROM YOUR SHITTY ASS IS STUPID SHIT SPAM. FUCK OFF ALREADY ITS THE LAST THING I NEED COMING FROM THIS DAMN GAME

Aaaand the hammer. Null since Sonic was dead anyway but I find the bolded part interesting.

By associatives, ika is most likely to be the last scum. It seems like there was a lot of half-assed distancing going on there, and ika's repeatedly shown to not put his money where his mouth is. The burden is on mollie to show how ProHawk is scum with Sonic/Naz.

[Mathdino]

If I investigated scum, they HAVE to kill me tonight. If I investigated anyone else, they can either just kill them, or me, or worry about them being conf-town depending on who said person is and their role.

Only scum need to know who I targeted because it DIRECTLY influences their night action choices tonight. You ma'm are playing the part to a T.

except that dino has proposed that divulge who you are investigating as part of the PLAN. and I am supposed to protect them!

how does that work in your world purview?

It doesn't because you can't protect anyone.

Oh my god would you two stop with your egofighting.

ProHawk, if the guy mollie says she protects dies anyway (or hell, if she stays alive for a weirdly long length of time) we lynch her. If you didn't already investigate her, Fenix and I can check her and we lynch if scum.

mollie, same damn thing with ProHawk; we can check him for being scum so you guys need to set each other aside for now and agree that if the other is scum, they WILL get lynched in due time.

Jesus.

[Mathdino]

Insufferable.

[Mathdino]

HEY MATH I ASKED PROHAWK WHY HE HAD AN EARLY TOWNREAD ON NAZERENE

I also had an early townread on Nazarene. I investigated them expecting to get a town result.

This wasn't an unpopular opinion.

[Mathdino]

HEY MATH I ASKED PROHAWK WHY HE HAD AN EARLY TOWNREAD ON NAZERENE

I also had an early townread on Nazarene. I investigated them expecting to get a town result.

This wasn't an unpopular opinion.

FFS DON'T BORE ME TO TEARS WITH AD POPULUM ARGUMENTS.

IN EVERY ASPECT IN EVERY SCENARIO IN EVERY PLAY PROHAWK FAILS.

WHEN YOU CAN BE ARSED ENOUGH TO DISCUSS THIS I AM HERE.

So why would you rather he be lynched today than tomorrow? Is this out of worry that we won't do it if you die tonight or something?

What do you think of the ika case? You yourself said that ika was weird for not immediately hammering. The death miller stuff and claim stalling yesterday only exacerbates that for me.

[Mathdino]

Doing the same thing with Nazarene, found a couple gems. Don't open the spoilers, I just did that for unnecessary parts of posts.

Ika - Null (chewing the fat and thinking. Cause nothing springs out as to fall on either side of the spectrum imo)
Sonic Boom - Town/Null (purely gut on this one)

Explain in more detail both of these. Also explain how gut compels you to read the heads differently.

@guille:

Do you mind explaining your reads on ika and SonicBoom, given that you clearly have way more conviction than almost anyone else? The SB one is obvious given recent posts, but I would like to know your basis when you entered the game.

@Bulb:

Do you actually believe the claim? What reasons do you have for voting EF given that posts 448 ff. seem to suggest an associative tell between them; or should I take the vote as an accusation that EF is whiteknighting the SB slot? I am a bit confused about your thought process.

I am really not sure whether the cop claim is enough to ignore OMGUS nonsense, whatever this is, and this. Having played with MS, I have experienced slews of random posts, but the most recent ones are just scummy.

VOTE: SonicBoom

Love LOVE this post. Speaks for itself, really.

Spoiler:

That doesn't answer my question, ika. Why aren't you votng your scumreads?

scums
guile - mostly off pretacetor atm, but im surpirsed guile has yet to say who he targeted with JKing.

Okay I googled pretacetor and literally the only results I got were your posts on MS :/ what do you mean?

hawk - he kinda stated his reason already why others think hes scum. and while i agree, i got this odd feeling that i cant shake, hes more of a gut call

Come on, go further...

titus slot - this one is more biassed if anything mostly b/c i scum read titus every time but she has not been on skype or anywhere else, plus a policy on titus slots are always good

Titus ain't even playing.

Eh, I put this in the ika case already.

Because this day has just started. There's a lot that still needs to be taken care of.

Hardly. The only acceptable outcome to this day is a SonicBoom lynch; I fail to see why the inevitable should be postponed. The only result is that I had to slog through inane walls (you) and typo-rife rants (ika).

@ika:

Get a hold on yourself. Are you seriously calling guille scum based on setup spec in an unbalanced game?

@Eddie:

Do you mind filling in your inexplicably missing reads?

Coaching more than scumhunting.

Spoiler:

That doesn't answer my question, ika. Why aren't you votng your scumreads?

scums
guile - mostly off pretacetor atm, but im surpirsed guile has yet to say who he targeted with JKing.

Okay I googled pretacetor and literally the only results I got were your posts on MS :/ what do you mean?

hawk - he kinda stated his reason already why others think hes scum. and while i agree, i got this odd feeling that i cant shake, hes more of a gut call

Come on, go further...

titus slot - this one is more biassed if anything mostly b/c i scum read titus every time but she has not been on skype or anywhere else, plus a policy on titus slots are always good

Titus ain't even playing.

-Tier

i told you i want shny hammer. i will get to it when i feel like it. something is pining me and i want to see how it unfolds.

its guts, what more do you want? give me something to work.

I want you to tell me exactly what about prohawk you find scummy. What posts trigger a gutscum reaction?

you really think im trying to avoid it?

you seriously think that?

seriously?

here let me answer you then on the verybegining:

Let's start with how lazy they are, how you repeatedly try to stay hands off while lamenting that you can't engage with anyone (or dowright refusing to engage)

tbh nobody has engadde me in the manner that works with me. most o the day was circular arguments about thing that dont intrest me. you should know that i like to look at obsure angles of things and the oddities, yesterday i did reach out to you but you seems to have disregarded it, if you like i can even quote myself where i did but you seemed to ahve not done so

approach me with a theory of something. not some attack. i just reply in kind.

---

that you have no real townreads on anyone (and your actual townreads can be PL'd at a moment's notice),

everyone is PL material, no matter what. you go a problem with it, thats all on your falut

----


and how your Sonic Boom read is BS, since it revolves around how you always scumread Titus, even though Titus hasn't been posting in this game.

she has a few though but as of late been afk. you seem to be missing the fact also i do keep tabs on her via her sister. if i needed to get tius for some cirtical emargency i can contact her sister.

----

It all seems rather contrived to me.

you want to know why? i will give you a hint: maybe its b/c i see a lot more then you think.

maybe its bc eddie is soft CC sonic right now
maybe its bc prohawk could be some PR that i dont want to be outing for the world to knwo
maybe its bc the more someon says "i want to die" the less likely its gonna happen
maybe its b/c im running a shitty ass fucking slayers gambit.

i work on a diffrent plane where i need someone to give me an idea, a conspericy theroy almost. thats how i work.

ika seems genuine
But the PR fishing is awful, stop it.

See, Nazarene repeatedly pushes ika on multiple levels but never seems to step to calling him scum. He's always talking about what's bad about ika's play but never what it means.

Spoiler:

Can someone please explain the thing that's going on between guille and EF?
Guille claims to have jailkept eddie, while eddie claims to have got a guilty on sonic that night? right?

Eddie, why did you only vote for guille as soon as he stated he jailkept you to block you, instead of right after when he claimed that, because you knew it was a lie?

If I'm getting it right, either of them is lying. But I'm thinking I'm missing something now because if that were the case everyone would be all over that now, right...

Also ika, could your role have messed up dino's investigation on us?
-Tier

Not sure what to make of this, but since Naz was scum anywaya nd the investigation was correct, the answer would be 'no' regardless of ika's alignment and Naz knows that. So probably null.

no i mean the fact that nazarene asked for a fullclaim, which was detrimental, rather than a simple question of whether or not he visited someone last night. also the fact that he chose the easiest lynch target to do so, and in particular my top scumread when i'm the one with a guilty on naz.

easy diversion, essentially, and good way for scum to get a PR claim out of naz's lynch.

you know I actually don't push prohawk, right?

And I'd choose the person who was most likely to be pushed to claim the following day? hell no, I'd choose something like mollie or ika

.
-tier

Hmm.

Regardless, Nazarene/ika checks out on Naz's side.

[Mathdino]

just checked the confirmation phase

LOL does everyone else have a role that makes the other side auto-lose because it's so crazy overpowered?

i love this

[Mathdino]

Meh.

Roles say scum isn't in Fenix. Mafia says scum isn't in {eyestott, DGB}. New lynchpath to victory:

ika

(in the night we both investigate

ProHawk

; assuming he's town)

mollie

(if still alive)

Fenix

(if still unconfirmed)

DGB

eyestott

[Mathdino]

I keep feeling compelled to come here and put ika at L-1 but I'm already voting him and then I get sad.

Like seriously, AFAIK everyone agrees with this lynch, but mollie and ProHawk are getting bogged down in their pissing match.

The only things holding up the game are ProHawk saying who he targeted and Fenix fullclaiming (which isn't even really necessary but it'd be kinda nice).

Cmon ProHawk.

You can do it.

Let go of your ego.

[Mathdino]

No he's not. eyestott tried to vote him twice and I'm currently voting him.

Did I miss a vote?

[Mathdino]

VOTE: ika. Claim please.

That sounds like a good plan.
Prohawk, did you target ika?
P.edit: I guess not.
VOTE: ika

[Mathdino]

Look, ProHawk, all I need to know to move forward on this is the following:

Did you target in {me, Fenix}?

If so, we do a cycle of investigations with mollie protecting whomever.

If not, Fenix and I either both investigate you or we investigate each other.

[Mathdino]

NICE ONE TOWN WOOOOT

[Mathdino]

lol at bulbazzak tunneling me

can't wait to see the dead thread

[Mathdino]

Yeah because ika will flip scum, if not you're likely NK'd so it doesn't matter much.

to be fair, this would've happened even if he was telling the truth and was town

[Mathdino]

2 docs

nice setup

[Mathdino]

i would instantly pre-in for a large game like this
if i'm gonna play a large
better be a bastard game

any advice on my play anyone? (i'm sure bulbazak has something to say here)

[Mathdino]

am thoroughly enjoying reading the mod QT flavour
would /in a mastin game again

[Mathdino]

this just goes to show

lynching based on roles > lynching based on scumhunting xD

take that, mollie/ProHawk

[Mathdino]

Also, if there's interest, tweaking things a bit (like, say, giving scum fakeclaims), I was wondering if there'd be interest in a sequel to this game, as a large theme. I have the setup more or less finalized and most of the finer points figured out, but I want to make sure I actually have a good crowd who'd be willing to

play

it.

It'd be the same but not the same at all, in that it'd still be classified as a bastard, it'd still be meant to be played casually and not seriously, and would still be meant for the fun of it. With what I have planned, I think it'll be even more entertaining than this game was, so long as you go in with the mindset that the game's explicitly not going to be balanced.

highly recommend 2nd anti-town faction
idc if multiball
or mimes
or cult
or tons of neutrals

[Mathdino]

am thoroughly enjoying reading the mod QT flavour

Right, I should probably put that all in-thread.

Shame that I didn't get to do N3 flavor. I totally woulda delayed the daystart if I had known that I wouldn't get the chance to write anything but a final lynch scene.

Also, I want to ask you as players: I'm seeing pretty good feedback for the game, which is a good sign, but there's something I want to know. I know that, for ME, sitting in the mod's chair, this game was so much of a blast to have been a part of that I'd definitely call it a Game of the Year contender, but I'm biased as the creator of the game and having sit from a point of omnipotence. So was it just good-good, or was it amazingly-awesome-good? (GOTY contender.)

I think in the end it was too townsided for that. Had it gotten closer to LyLo, maybe, but we'd pretty much solved the game by D4.

It was great but more in terms of fun than an interesting hi-quality game.

[Mathdino]

there aren't many times where a player completely drops down their guard and bring tears to my eyes with how vulnerable they are willing to be. you are devastatingly gorgeous for it. thank you for that and I am sorry I doubted you, I hope to not ever make that mistake again.

Half of that stuff really feels self-evident if you look at most of my games, but I might just be biasing against myself because I already know what I'm looking at/for.

I researched you during that cult game we played with jacob and thorella. it was a good bit of time ago but I don't think you had ever done anything like that before. I was taken aback but leaped to the wrong conclusion because of it and I am sorry.

agree about mastina's modding

AND STFU NERO YOU WEREN"T IN THIS GAME I AM HAVING A MOMENT

oi check the scummies thread

[Mathdino]

I just realised something and remembered something I came up with in D2 due to imagining myself as scum.

What if ika didn't come up with death miller claim and decided to not shoot N3?
With the playerlist as
{ProHawk, Mathdino, Fenix} whose collective results were ika was town
{ika, DGB, eyestott}
{guille, mollie}
Fenix would be almost instalynched, and his flip would clear ika. ALTERNATIVELY mollie would have to out herself and try to convince people that I was shot. But that would reveal mollie. Also Fenix's flip would confirm guille as the actual JK since Fenix was RB'd.
At that point, since mollie and guille protecting each other wouldn't work, ika would either have to find a way to get rid of the protectives or take out ProHawk, who, tbh, was lynchbait.
Hmm. Depending on the role actions, the win would be dependent on A. whether mollie and guille would want to target each other, and B. whether guille would try to continue using his JK as a method of clearing people.

Either way ika should've claimed another investigative IMO. 'Town Godfather' is what did him in.

[Mathdino]

i'm kinda interested to see the D3 start PMs

mod should post that

i apologise if i already said this lol