Mini 1638: Mafia lottery - GG

[Heartless]

10 pages and i haven't even looked at this thread.

tth is prob going to beat me to it.

[Heartless]

oh joy, there's a claimed 3p?

[Heartless]

oh joy, there's a claimed 3p?

And maybe and unclaimed 2nd mafia faction.

...as opposed to a claimed 2nd mafia faction...? what the fuck's been going on this game?

[Heartless]

People who want to get rid of the townsiding Bulletproof Survivor as soon as possible:

- mafia
- that's it

I understand it's dangerous to leave 3Ps to their own devices but we can deal with that later.

actually, scum are going to want to leave 3p around until it's too late to policy lynch and he's acting like an effective scum goon at endgame

...which is apparently what you want to do...

[Heartless]

alright, i see the lynch vs leash argument brewing

scum are going to overwhelmingly be on the leash side

[Heartless]

Shouldn't you have said that after scum started doing it?

-flub

o_O
...what?...

[Heartless]

Eyestott, I have to respect your most recent vote in the context of your wincon, but the fact that even this early in the game your wincon is forcing you to vote like that should make the problem with keeping you alive clear.

^^^^lock down^^^^

add in the fact there's nothing to say eyestott isn't fakeclaiming scum
VOTE: eyestott

[Heartless]

i'm on the leash side. Am I scum?

remains to be seen, but there's sooooooooooo many more compelling reasons for scum to take the leash side here

two of them are:
>stays out of the 3p's way so that if town decide not to lynch him they don't make his shit list
>keeps an ace in the hole around for endgame. survivor's going to vote for quickhammer on town for the win so he's effectively another mafioso come LYLO

hell, i've seen scum vote to keep a bp SK around before: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=31652

^^^the leash vs lynch argument there: EVERY SINGLE GODDAMN scumbag was on the leash side

[Heartless]

gotta' go now will come back to this later

[Heartless]

Absolutely not.

Lynching the third party is exactly what the scum team wants, especially if he's bulletproof. We waste a lynch on someone we know isn't scum and they don't have to worry about shooting him to call his bluff.

We don't lynch third parties because they're not scum. We should be hunting scum, not labeling anyone who doesn't want to lynch non-scum as scum.

right, and you KNOW he's not fakeclaiming scum.......

how?

[Heartless]

You're assuming the game will reach MyLo/LyLo. That's a premature expectation at this point, and I would be willing to reconsidering hanging him with his leash if it got close to that point.

Right now, there is no harm in letting him chill for a couple days and observe his actions to see how pro-town he is.

the "hated townie" approach is very REACTIVE and i'm trying to be more proactive

[Heartless]

BLAH wanted to catch up

[Heartless]

VOTE: eyestott

this bullshit ends now

[Heartless]

House (1) petrified Forest
2birds1stone (Lynch) Klingoncelt, Grib, StrangerCoug, SilverWolf, stott, Dechs Kaison, PeaceBringer
eyestott (2) 2birds1stone, Heartless
MathBlade (2) house, Lynch Overflow
PeaceBringer (1) House

7 man lynch wagon
on one of eyestott's most outspoken critics

NO COUNTERWAGON

so, what was i saying about scum wanting eyestott alive and everyone telling me i was full of shit?

I'M JUST WAITING FOR EVERYONE TO GET IN HERE AND SCHOOL ME

[Heartless]

2birds1stone (Lynch) Klingoncelt, Grib, StrangerCoug, SilverWolf, stott, Dechs Kaison, PeaceBringer

i think if this set of players keeled over right now we would have 1 scum left

MAXIMUM

[Heartless]

grib and peacebringer

[Heartless]

how about you sc? what are you doing today?

[Heartless]

CONJUNCTION

JUNCTION

WHAT'S YOUR

DYS

FUNCTION?

Grib is Brian Skies now.

Day 1 lynches are almost always Town. Day 2 lynches as well. I'm no happier about it than you are.

We know exactly who 1 Scum/3rd Party is, it's not like we have to scumhunt for him. Let's find some other scums.

ok, are we playing to win here or are we playing to lose? i don't get it.
why are we not lynching the claimed non-town that's obviously being shielded by scum?
at best: he really is 3p and scum see him as one of their assets and at worst: he's really fakeclaiming scum

who are your picks for scum, then, klingon?

[Heartless]

i don't need the bullshit. you know what i was talking about and it's hardly a "random set" of people.

[Heartless]

House (1) petrified Forest
2birds1stone (Lynch) Klingoncelt, Grib, StrangerCoug, SilverWolf, stott, Dechs Kaison, PeaceBringer
eyestott (2) 2birds1stone, Heartless
MathBlade (2) house, Lynch Overflow
PeaceBringer (1) House

7 man lynch wagon
on one of eyestott's most outspoken critics

NO COUNTERWAGON

so, what was i saying about scum wanting eyestott alive and everyone telling me i was full of shit?

I'M JUST WAITING FOR EVERYONE TO GET IN HERE AND SCHOOL ME

^^^^^context^^^^^

[Heartless]

i swear i have zero patience for potshots right now

IT DOESN'T TAKE SHERLOCK HOLMES TO READ THE SITUATION AND SEE WHAT'S GOING ON

[Heartless]

grib and peacebringer

it's like what i say doesn't fucking matter...

guess i already knew that before though

i'll go into it later

[Heartless]

Aneurysms aren't pretty.

oh, so that's what this headache is?

i can only hope

[Heartless]

That doesn't lend Dech's argument any more validity, House. The thing that lends our argument its validity is 2bird's flip and the fact he had 7 votes while the next leading wagon had 2.

-TTH

[Heartless]

I don't think Antihero goes nearly far enough. I'm fairly certain that eyestott is actually fakeclaiming scum. There's ample evidence for this from the claim itself and the evidence continues to pile up.

The claim itself is unsubstantiated and there's a suspicious amount of convenient and far-fetched components to it. For someone who's not scum, he claims to know quite a bit about them including how many scum players there are and what powers are in their raffles. Having an "X-shot bulletproof" and "self-watching" power is very convenient and would explain his repeated survival through the nights despite having all this information. His play also reveals that his main priority lies with batting away attacks from his critics as evidenced with his reads on Anti and 2birds, who I will remind you has since flipped town, in Post 459 and Post 465. This is much more in line with a scum agenda than it is a town one.

There's also the matter of the general group dynamic and how they've reacted to eyestott's claim as a whole. The eyestott wagon never exceeded three votes for the entirety of Day 1 and it remained at 2 for the majority of the day. Eyestott's critics stood alone at Antihero and 2birds who both experienced significant backlash for their opinions; 2birds paid for it with a mislynch. Call it a persecution complex if you will, but facts are facts and unless you want to argue that us and 2birds are the scumteam, it's undeniable that the scumteam has an interest in keeping eyestott alive. And contrary to what House will have you believe now, the death of one naysayer is unlikely to change the climate of the game.

For those of you who as "what scum would be ballsy enough to do this gambit," I submit to you that so far it's worked pretty beautifully! It foiled eyestott's most vocal detractor and most people remain unwilling to lynch him.

I also think the most promising leads are from the 2birds wagon yesterday and I'll delve into that later tonight.

-TTH

[Heartless]

[quote="In post 734, House"
You have said nothing that conflicts with DK's post above.

Scum have no reason to start a counterwagon when the lynch is on town. Where was all this rage yesterday when 2b1s was being run up solo?

Your self-righteous indignation is fake as hell.[/quote]
We were on vacation. I'm afraid you'll have to swallow your pride, House.

And what Antihero was implying before was that the wagon that was ramrodded through was to silence eyestott criticism. He's suggesting 2birds was the counterwagon to eyestott.

AtE? Seriously?

You don't really know Anti that well, do you?

[Heartless]

You have said nothing that conflicts with DK's post above.

Scum have no reason to start a counterwagon when the lynch is on town. Where was all this rage yesterday when 2b1s was being run up solo?

Your self-righteous indignation is fake as hell.

We were on vacation. I'm afraid you'll have to swallow your pride, House.

And what Antihero was implying before was that the wagon that was ramrodded through was to silence eyestott criticism. He's suggesting 2birds was the counterwagon to eyestott.

AtE? Seriously?

You don't really know Anti that well, do you?

[Heartless]

What's your theory about what happened yesterday, House?

Ours is that there was way too much of a consensus on 2birds for it to be town motivated.

Your counterargument is, what?

[Heartless]

Scum have no reason to start a counterwagon when the lynch is on town.

so.... your theory is that [heartless, house, mathblade, pine]

the scumteam's in there?

brilliant

[Heartless]

I don't think Antihero goes nearly far enough. I'm fairly certain that eyestott is actually fakeclaiming scum.

I don't understand this part of your post in relation to your stated stances today. You think scum wants eyestott to live, then you think that eyestott is fakeclaiming scum. For both to make sense at the same time, eyestott's utility to the scum must be that he is a distraction to the town. Do you believe this to be true?

Anti thinks the indie claim is real.
I do not share this belief.

[Heartless]

You know who isn't brilliant? You.

Shut the fuck up and be a silent partner.

Wow. Totally uncalled for and unacceptable, House. Anti attacked your theory, you attacked his character.

I don't appreciate that at all.

[Heartless]

Hey, you see how Dechs is dead? Scum obviously dont want me alive.

Dechs was 1 out of 11 who refused to vote you yesterday. That's a drop in the bucket, so your night kill analysis means little. If scum wanted to lynch you they would have tried yesterday.

Your argument holds no water.

[Heartless]

Factional kill again, but theres also a power called drug deal.
I asked Ika what it does, but he said no answer.

Oh, so the super-dooper omniscience power suddenly has limits?

[Heartless]

Thats wrong. Mathblade didnt vote me at EOD, even though he was for it. Plenty of people prefered my lynch, but consolidated.

The vote count doesn't lie. The peak of your wagon was 3 and these "plenty of people" don't exist.

[Heartless]

House is one of your defenders. Try again.

And no, I'm not going to let you flood the thread with crap. Your arguments don't have legs to stand on regardless of if they're in wall form or not.

[Heartless]

I'm not the one refusing engagement.

I don't negotiate with scum.

[Heartless]

VOTE: Heartless

For wanting to lynch right out of the gate & shut our day down early instead of allowing town to communicate.

We said literally none of these things.

In fact, I need some time to get my working hypothesis.

How you're thinking giving him a gun is a good idea is so completely beyond me.

[Heartless]

others chomping at the bit to vote for him

Who are these "others"? Please name names.

[Heartless]

Did all these people on the wagon give any indication

yesterday

they would vote him?

[Heartless]

Why wasn't this reflected in any of the vote counts?

[Heartless]

And I had a big hand in putting off his D1 lynch, so you should probably read D1 so you can fabricate an excuse to scumread me now.

Well I wasn't here for it. Anti said you and Dechs were arguing with him while no one except 2birds was agreeing with him, which is exactly what I see when I ISO ika.

[Heartless]

No, but basic vote count analysis should tell me a lot,

especially

such a lopsided one like we had Day 1.

You're saying I shouldn't trust it? Why? I find that hard to believe. Is everyone here in the habit of reading one way and voting another?

[Heartless]

I just looked at SilverWolf's ISO and see no indication she was willing to lynch eyestott.

[Heartless]

I just looked at Pine/Petrified Forest's ISO and see no indication he would vote eyestott.

Should I keep going?

[Heartless]

Seems like Anti actually had a pretty good handle on what was going on.

[Heartless]

I just ISO'ed every single player this game in series. The only people interested in an eyestott lynch were: Antihero, MathBlade, and 2birds.

Which is exactly what the vote count

and

Anti told me.

[Heartless]

Many many people said that they didnt want a day 1 lynch of me, but wanted to see if i was protown in my actions.

Those "many many" people start and end at SilverWolf.

[Heartless]

I just ISO'ed every single player this game in series. The only people interested in an eyestott lynch were: Antihero, MathBlade, and 2birds.

Which is exactly what the vote count

and

Anti told me.

You're either ignoring or missing Pine & SilverWolf both giving indicators of supporting a D2 lynch.

Town!TTH is better than that.

No, I didn't bring this up.

You did.

You're making the argument that Anti knew the eyestott wagon had ample support. Of course in retrospect, we see Pine and SilverWolf lent their support, but how was he supposed to know this coming into today?

[Heartless]

Using 4 quotes still leaves it one person.

[Heartless]

TTH, you're a force to be reckoned with when you're town... that you're being so derptastic and scrambling for half-baked excuses breaks my heart because I really wanted the benefit of having your analytical mind in this game.

The narrative of "everyone's cool with an eyestott lynch" is

not

supported by the vote counts. There's a dwindling list of reasons why 2birds was lynched.

If you're telling me otherwise, something is seriously wrong.

[Heartless]

Pine, Silverwolf, Peacebringer, and Mathblade were all easy sells for a D2 eyestott lynch, as has been shown here today.

That just supports my case on Heartless.

In your words, why was 2birds lynched yesterday? (I'd like to hear

your

paraphrase, there's a reason I'm asking.)

Same question for you eyestott.

[Heartless]

If Heartless had accused me of being biased based on my earlier blow-up, it would have looked 100x better. That they instead chose to give my accusations validity and defended against them tells me I'm on the right track.

Why would you have been biased based on the blow up? o_O
You're "biased" based on the fact you've butted heads with Anti when he was here about philosophy and now it's coming to a head. I don't care much for the personal stuff and want to keep out of that.

I don't think Heartless is responding well to House at all. I'm waking up at the moment and don't want an accidental hammer, so I'll wait for a vote count.

There's a dwindling list of reasons why 2birds was lynched.

This suggests that the reasons for a lynch that already happened are currently decreasing in number, which is illogical if I'm interpreting your post right.

Accidental hammer? o_O

Do inhabit the same universe as the rest of this game? I'm starting to think not.

[Heartless]

Well you're going to have to wait.

In the meantime, I see you voted 2birds. If you'd like to paraphrase why, that would be helpful, but I'll be looking at it anyway, so you can skip it if you want.

[Heartless]

*Anti and House clashed and now House has an axe to grind with Anti for his sarcasm and me for snapping at him.
*We're the counterwagon to eyestott (deja vu).
*Incomplete meta on me.
*Anti was somehow going to quicklynch eyestott, even though he never said such a thing nor does he even have the power to do that.

Then they tried to put me on the defensive for the 2b1s lynch because I was bringing too much heat down on their heads.

I never said you were on the wagon. I'd still like your description of it, because you're talking past me.

[Heartless]

That said, I'm not a huge fan of the way Heartless has reacted to all of the pushback.

Get in line, I'm not either. I'm still not happy with House at all and that's likely influencing how I'm speaking to him, though I suppose it's irrelevant now and we can make up after the game's over. I admit that I haven't read closely how exactly the 2birds wagon went down yesterday, but from what I see on stuff I can skim quickly (i.e. the vote count, conversations of other people regarding eyestott) I'm left with the impression that at its center it all had to do with how 2birds treated eyestott, which is also corroborated by what StrangerCoug just told me. The question now is: why? Why is it that a simple disagreement in game strategy lead to this, because regardless of everyone's pride on the matter, wanting to lynch claimed anti-town is not scummy.

Anti's butthurt right now because he felt like he was ignored Day 1 about what he thought should be obvious, basic stuff. The fact the only other person backing him up was lynched just adds insult to injury and it sucks he wasn't there to say anything about it, because I'm sure there would've been quite a ruckus.

What's done is done though. I'll look over at least what happened on the tail end of Day 1 tonight if I don't fall asleep (no guarantees I won't, I'm taking NyQuil in a couple hours).

[Heartless]

wow, l-1 no counterwagon what could possibly go wrong?

[Heartless]

lol 2 page flash lynch wagon

damn

[Heartless]

props to silverwolf and mathblade for pulling this out, we fucked this game up by falling behind then never getting our shit together

btw, house, i was only being snarky w/ you b/c i was scum. nothin' against you, man. tth tried to kind of smooth over me being an idiot but i kind of fucked it up beyond repair. :\

at least we shoved through the eyestott lynch, i guess. that would've REALLY sucked if we got lynched before him.

[Heartless]

Town has to maintain a majority. By PL'ing a known benign 3P, it gave scum a town death without risking a scum lynch.

except he wasn't known

scum have claimed 3p to avoid being lynched before