Mini 1677 - Ori and the Blind Forest Mafia - Forest Revived

[ika]

hi bella hi tere hi mollie

you guys need me

[ika]

ika, meet Bella! Bella meet ika, you guys should talk!

(have a look at the game state and clong mollie over the head a bit, I need to go bed real soon xx

we are already fairly aquinted tere.

[ika]

-.-

VOTE: cho

now im doing it out of spite

[ika]

@ika:
1)who are your strongest reads?
2) Who are you having trouble sorting?
3)What am I missing about the set-up/is set-up spec really unhelpful?
4)Why were you asking about fruit?
5)What's your read on me?
6)Any questions for me?
7)I kinda have a terrible scum-read on you: why am I wrong?

1) grib/tere are my tops, boo is potential but its ~reason~
2) boo, plume cus of tere, everyone else that i porb havent mentioned nor cared for
3) depends on setup itself. the answer for this i more theory talk. I can elaborate on it but i can also just OGC you about those things later cus it is more theory.
4) setup spec
5) honestly i could rationalize both scum and town. gun to head i would say town but i need more out of you
6) yes, whats your town/scum reads? do you think there is a rb? what you think of cho being vig and fialing on frogger?
7) cus your a woman and ~stuff~ and im a man and ~stuff~ (yes even in game i will make that horribale refrence)

[ika]

i will get to this probally tonight, i have a lot of rl stuff atm

[ika]

1) talk to me about boo, please?
2) who would you lynch today?
3) This kind of links to the RB/BP thing: a strong scum team like that, I'd expect a bunch of PRs. Some peeps were soft-claiming everywhere day1, iirc, but I'm not sure.
4) k, why? Share your thoughts on this?
5) Cool, I'm town, and I'm happy with my play this day phase.
6) I literally just made a reads list. Feel free to comment on it. Frogger is town, and I'm happy town-read chokari, based on yukari's newb-flailing
7) I'm serious. tere says you are engaged as town + im not feelin it

1) ehh nvm, her last post makes me disregard my town read
2) cho/plume/dragon
3) thats what setup sepc is about, but on the otherside it can lead to inadver softclaims
4) sharing potential people and what their claims are, are not advised... I havent been following that hard to see peoples claims but with the current pool of claims and what i have gathered i rather not give ideas to scum on who to nk.
5) k
6) i neeed to iso then.
7) ya cus im disengaged atm and have a lot of shit. espcialy after how day 1 went i really lack a motivation that normally shows. im kinda in that state of not caring about showing my town play and just bleh

[ika]

cho it madates an outside killing source, it does not madate it bign a vig.

its getting irritating to use your vig claim to be here

[ika]

cho it madates an outside killing source, it does not madate it bign a vig.

its getting irritating to use your vig claim to be here

[ika]

well actualy it doesnt madate an outside killing source at all if we really wanted to get smaticy. but thats just me now being a dicka bout it

[ika]

if Mafia knew there was a Bulletproof, why would they claim vig at all, especially unprompted on Day 1?

Why would town claim vig unprompted?

stupidity and newb?

[ika]

also at cho: i can easily see it being there for the argument of using vig as a fakeclaim.

like i can boil it down to modgameming/outguess mod but i will admit its stretching. but im not going ot push it.

im just more questioning vig vs BP+RB in general

[ika]

well hes right in the sense that its going to backlash ank if he goes "lol BP no vig/sk" (at least from me) but im just staing that acting like you being an unproven vig to make yourself confirmed town is shit.

[ika]

or to clairfy: chos logic is sound, but it falls short on sevral aspects that are debatable

[ika]

oh btw cho, if your not proven tongiht im going full out lynch you

i can see rber existing only if its x-shot

[ika]

I'm not claiming I'm mod-confirmed town; that's dumb.

I'm just very obviously setup-confirmed town to anyone actually using their brain.

your setup confimred to be non-mafia. not non-sk....

thats the point im more of arguing now but not pushing it very hard.

if you could draw a conclusion that would make it non-sk then maybe but im showing you a flaw in your setup spec. im not disproving your idea that killing exist with BP, im jsut disprvoing it should be town!vig

[ika]

tere get in here and vote so i can hammer

[ika]

I mean, I'm impatient too, but not answering the question is basically a scumclaim, right?

shes vt or scum

end of story

[ika]

1) you'd be happy to lynch her? Why?
2) why dragon?
3) inadvertent as in mistaken (untrue and badly phrased) or accidental (true but not meant to be revealed ?)
4)hmmm
6) Please do, and come back to me
7) Have you felt that way as town before? I've seen you rage-posting, but this feels different.

1) vt or scum, though she was softing pr earlier
2) been useless
3) it can be both, ive seen people say something that can lead to pr conclusions based on setup spec or phrasings
4) hmmm?
6) tommorw if im alive, due to ~reasons~ i rather not
7) yes. its a feeling that doesnt come often

[ika]

6)) I meant can you come and talk to me. Why would you rather not?
7) don't suppose you know what games, so I can go meta-dive?

Also, who were you talking about in 1778?

6) oh yes i can talk to you what about?
7) i can go find it later.

boo in 1778

pedit will respond in a sec

[ika]

You haven't exactly been super useful yourself ika.

doesnt change anything. you have yet to really invest yourself in the game. i did that day one and look where it got me.

dont try that "well you are doing it to" shit with me

I've already explained.

Possibility of Mafia (full) BP - under the assumption that if this game had an SK, it would account for balance in a way that gave a lone player a viable chance to win:

- SK without Strongman has practically no chance of winning. SK vs. Mafia in this case is like SK vs. {BP SK + SK's scumpartners}. Not balanced. End of story.

you presume sk isnt BP then. if we go with that that i agree

- SK with Strongman brings up "why the fuck would you have a Mafia BP chance then, that's just fucking with Mafia's heads for no reason" and wouldn't be approved as is.

agreed if full on strongman

- SK with 1-shot or 2-shot Strongman still is crippled by the Mafia Bulletproof. Using Strongman correctly on Mafia BP with the first shot would take massive good luck for SK (for the mafia, bad luck to be such a crucial kill for SK's strongman), or require SK to waste a regular kill on Mafia BP. If SK ran out of Strongman shots, they're also crippled. This combination is like saying "ok, so the SK can win, as long as the Strongman kills align just right". That doesn't sound so bad when put that way but it's basically hinging a player who's already got 11 other people they NEED to eliminate and throwing a huge luck-based wrench in there (potential for bad luck, and not good). Not balanced, and would not be approved by DRK, GiF, and Sthar.

not really, most mods would rule a 1v1 in sk favor. I would aruge mafia winning on the grounds of BP maf to be shitty. But thats smatic. I i dont disagree on premsise but i will disagree that its going to be "sk wins if shots align"

Seriously just look up any non-large game where you have a scum full bulletproof and there's only one scumteam. The Mafia BP role is designed to counter town killers, not an SK that, no matter what the power, is already fucked over by the mere odds enough.

Given how i play on power heavy sites and sevral other sites that used BP and sk as well as modded games where maf BP was to counter sk. i would disagree.

but marquis, i can see where i might be wrong in logic format, i jsut showing you asserting it is wrong. i have played enough games on enough sites to where i can see almost anything happening

[ika]

@ boo, the post to you kinda was my reads list, but I'll structure it better!

Town:

Tere: her investment in this is crazy for scum. She's asking the right questions to the right people and giving helpful information, such as the set up stuff.
FroggieMollie: some posting (like today's) is a really strong town read. The 1v1 is putting me off. Still town
Grib: Town. I'd like more contact, but town.
Chokari: Yukari was newbtown. Cho is kinda null, but working off that, town

null (town to scum)
Boo: flashes of towniness, but doesn't seem to be 100% scum hunting. Responds well to questions
zzzx: this slot confuses me, there's a lot I don't like, but nothing that on it's own is overtly scummy.

Could lynch:
Hydra/Dragon: I need to re-read these slots. But dragon's insistence that Yuk was scummy, not newbie, is moving him way down this list.

Scummy:
ika: I need to interact with this slot more
Plum, for reasons already stated.

p-edit: FroggingMollie, if chokari flips town I'm scum? Why?
pp-edit: maybe I'm giving Yukari too much credit, but tere's read here connected with me. Maybe I'm using too much emotion rather than logic.

this is what you would like my commentray on?

im kinda out of it still btu i want o make sure

[ika]

Was I wrong to assume we were both operating under the assumptions of Mafiascum design?

not 100% i could be sliagtly biased due to offsite. but its more of me workign it out outloud. we can talk post game about it in deph

ika I do acknowledge and respect your offsite experience as stated before, but Ank/DRK/GiF/Sthar as reviewers and people with certain beliefs about how balance and design should be done; they subscribe more to Mafiascum mentality and design meta - in other words aim to make all factions have a good chance of winning, not by stacking PRs to increase the chances of things balancing out, but by finetuning them in less crazy ways that reward good play rather than action luck.

ok now that i can work into and understand a lot better

Mafia BP and a 2-Shot Strongman Serial Killer are 95% unlikely to coexist (like 75% if this was a large), and I don't think this setup is too power heavy in a new/variant way also by way of Mafiascum meta.

ehh i would have to work out number crunching with whats known vs whats possible but im not in a mood so *shrug*

The point isn't meant to illustrate a possible 1v1 between SK and Mafia. It's that by giving Mafia a chance to have a Bulletproof, you're putting the SK on their own on the same level as only one mafia member out of a likely team of three. That's stacked against SK.

The possibility of Mafia BP in a single-scumteam game means either there's an SK with multiple overpowered role aspects to significantly give the chance to outplay mafia at night (which in turn leads to a stacked town PR group which we have no hint of) one of which must be at least a 2-shot bulletproof, or that there is no SK.

Thats how i look at most sks honestly, i look that them being the most OPed motherfuckers. Sk has to fight against not only town but mafia. Again i think we are getting into a belif/smatic fight so i would save this for post game but i understand what you are saying

Also, Yukari's kill didn't go through last night. If my slot was really an SK (which we've agreed that if it were the case it'd need to be even more powerful than 2-shot Strongman) that needed to prove themselves as a vig immediately or get lynched the next day... seriously why wouldn't they just have strongman-killed Frogger. There's also the thing about how scum who think they're dying soon (which was likely for a player under such heavy suspicion as Yukari) will try to use their powers effectively immediately,

it's just common sense.

The underlined is what im going to respond to, the rest i understand YPOV enough to where i can follow it and agree on it now.

But more on point, when you play mafia, i throw common sense out the window. Unless if you know the setup itself (100% open) i run under an "anything can be exsiting" and that what common sense should dictate isnt always true. This is known to be non-bastard so im not going to go "oh jester deathmiller shit" but i would not put it too far off to have strongman sk or BP sk to be in the game.

Again, FMPOV you have every possbility of being an sk. It may be reachy as hell, but its somethign that lingers in my mind. its just very hard for me to work in an aboslute of "you are vig" and not have a few questions about it.

I already gave the incentive that i dont care to sort you today so how about we drop it and save it for post game? if anything at this point your slot is self resloving.

[ika]

@ika, you asked for my reads, I'm just stating I've provided them. My read of boo is dropping, though.

i know. i just have a lot of shit so i need to reorganize my thoguths.

mod can you prod grib

[ika]

vm hes not in prod range

anyway give me 5 to organize

[ika]

i feel like after reading beelas read lsit and comparing thoughts:

if we lynch/vig in {boo/ZZZX/plume/hydra/drgaon}

game would be over. however that too large to do them all ill need to sort though it tonight

[ika]

i feel like after reading beelas read lsit and comparing thoughts:

if we lynch/vig in {boo/ZZZX/plume/hydra/drgaon}

game would be over. however that too large to do them all ill need to sort though it tonight

[ika]

i need to think based on what boo thinks

i would consider it an all town wagon but i have a puase only due to bussing

[ika]

boo, im on break but i will be frank with you.

your last post rings sincere to me and i do think deep down you are town. however im at a point in this game wehre i really dont give a fuck about it.

i am jsut ina moodstate of this game to not care nor give a damn about stuff cus its guts and randomness. i am feeling nice enough that if you want final reads you can cus i have to go back to work soon.

but when i get home if your still l-1 i hammer. im not in a mood to deal with the snippy comments as much as they are true.

yes i know im sounding consending and stuff but im tried and dont feel like taking this stuff in sue me

[ika]

VOTE: bookitty

depedning on flip depends where my reads go

[ika]

how about we dont l-1 so they can self hamemr?

like im not that dumb grib

[ika]

I know.

yet you are telling me not to hammer if they go to l-1....

anyways need to revise setup sepc

[ika]

Spoiler: random setup speculations

Pool 1:

1) 2-shot Tracker

2) 2-shot Voyeur
3) Vanilla Townie

4) Mafia 2-shot Rolecop

Pool 2:

1) 2-shot Doctor

3) 2-shot Voyeur

4) Mafia Bulletproof

Pool 3:

2) 2-shot Doctor

3) Vanilla Townie

4) Mafia Bulletproof

Pool 4:

1) 2-shot Tracker

4) Mafia 2-shot Rolecop

this is the setup from our pool. i dont see them shooting plume unless rolecopped. i need to revise POE and see what the pool is narrowed to atm cus with plume gone the POE is easy

[ika]

ok we just vig dragon and lynch ZZZX after hydra. if one of them isnt final scum then i will be doing a lot of revising

[ika]

games done, im done here also

[ika]

i dont see them shooting plume unless rolecopped.

I'll be the newbie who asks why...why?

seeing how plume was under heavy fire yesterday, and how the gamestate went down. do you think with all the shades thrown on plume that if plume was to be VT that she would of been easy to push as a lynch?

[ika]

I'd lynch Bella over ZZZX.

i enjoy bella, i rather have drag viged and lynch ZX first.

bella would be next though if its not over after them

[ika]

Yeah, well, I enjoy lynching scum.

i know. i do too.

but does it make a diffrence on who gets lynched first? i mean do you agree on the vig shot at least?

[ika]

can we leave bella out of vig pool for sake of my motivation? the fact mollie already left kinda made me shitty and to be frank, the gamestae hasnt made me feel better (yes even given we have 2 scums right now) and right now bella being here is kinda what keeps me playing atm

[ika]

I believe Grib. Just wish

Yes, I did try to shoot last night.

It'll be kind of funny if both Frogger and my target last night are both town. Otherwise scum probably just tied the noose tighter for themselves, twice.

Waiting on the 18th I guess.

yes and im going to be upfront, plz shoot dragon/ZZZX

Just wish he had waited to claim by just saying something like "I have a role related reason to wait until everyone's commented", or at least trying something to get stuff out of Hydrangea before she knew she'd been caught (i.e., claiming to be a Voyeur who targeted me and got a "Cho was roleblocked/manipulated" result, and seeing how Hydra reacted to that).

(This is me saying I believe she's scum, yes.)

i dont think it would do much if he softed role related reasons cus of setup

So what happens if hydra flips town?

we vig grib for lying and then lynch from there

I know I haven't been invested in this game much. But if I was scum, why would I jump on bookittys wagon instead of pushing plum? Especially if ika is right and the scum have a role cop.

If hydra is a role blocker and I was scum wouldn't that make me the role cop? So wouldn't I know plum was a voyeur? So wouldn't it have been logical for me to push plum yesterday?

So assuming hydra does flip as we are thinking and you kill me and zzzx (who I'm still thinking is town) where do we go next?

bella, also if you were rolecop who checked and found voyer it would honestly be easier to just nk the slot due to the fact that we know the setup could have one

[ika]

ok then frog lets do it like this:

alive:
1. Bellaphant
2. Cho
3. dragonspawn
5. Grib
7. ika
9. Tere
10. ZZZX

lets say girb gets shot and drgon gets viged to flip vt

1. Bellaphant
2. Cho
7. ika
9. Tere
10. ZZZX

you now have this to chose from (ive excluded you), it cant be cho cus now hes proven vig unles we argue that its scum.

so im going to presume its bella next outside of ZX?

[ika]

if thats the case we are still in most agreement but just not on who should be going first

[ika]

So what you guys are saying is that you are going to kill zzzx and I and that there is really no point in us continuing to play since we are dead anyway.

I don't see how just killing townies is going to help us win this game. But ill still do what I can still you kill me.

we are in poe phase, if you have imput to add then add it but right now you have yet to really add anything substantial that would warrent a town read.

i mena most of your questions are pretty direct and stragitfoward too that dont lead to any real scum hunting

pedti: what do you think the order should be then? cus if it has same end results would it matter?

[ika]

So what you guys are saying is that you are going to kill zzzx and I and that there is really no point in us continuing to play since we are dead anyway.

I don't see how just killing townies is going to help us win this game. But ill still do what I can still you kill me.

I'm not on board with lining up lynches beyond lynching Hydrangea tonight.

I think it's fair to give vig reads. Without a roleblocker (presuming that's what Hydrangea flips), Cho will need to pick a target.

But tomorrow lynches, I'd rather wait for flips and night play. It doesn't mean we can't speculate on interactions of Boo/Hydrangea with the rest of town (knowing Boo is scum, and likely Hydrangea is scum).

im not exactly lining up lynches. i can see where that is coming form but right now im in POE where i have a set of town reads and i will lynch outside of that bloc and anyone inside it s on a no-lynch list

[ika]

bella frog:

assume hydra is scum, who would you want to see viged and who do you want to see lynched next and why?

i wan to sort this stuff out

[ika]

i feel like we are in agreemtn in general about everything btu the end product so lets sort it out now

[ika]

As of now:

Vig: ZZZX
Lynch: I guess dragon. I think Bella is town. But I will need to evolve this read with more talk today and D4 if I'm not NK'd.

why would you be nked over someone like grib?

and yes there are reasons why im asking such and obvious question that has an obvious answer

[ika]

so we jsut disagree on who we should vig/lynch first cus mins opposite.

care to elaborate on why ZX over dragon first?

[ika]

how about this:

Cho vig between dragon/ZZZX, tommorow we lynch the other.

this seems to be the univeral agreemnt?

pedit: dragon if its not you or ZZZX, you think bella? and for sake of argument if it snot bella who next?

[ika]

Tere and Ika aren't confirmed anything, though, are they?

im confirmed ot be a neighobr that was shared with MS and pie if that means anything.

[ika]

my flavor was already outed by ms iirc otherwise i need to go back and find it

[ika]

froog er what do you hope to get by massclaim anyway?

[ika]

im gonna echo tere ZX

READ THE THREAD. your not 100% wrong but your missing the context of the thread

[ika]

^ is what's worrying me, 'cos I think at least one person has to be lying.

Honestly I think you are overthinking. A preset neighbourhood I think is less powerful than a friendly neighbour. I think all those roles could be town. Ika can tell me off if I'm wrong

as for this, this is more based on theory and belif. its more dpendent on players IMO.

if the nighborhood were to be starting with me/mollie/bella i bet day 1 and a lot fo the clusterfuck would of been much muhc difffrent. and in that case i would argue that it would be 10 times more powerful mostly due to the fact mollie and i can many times discover each other quickly. i also think that bella would be quick to figure and we could easily townbloc it and work from there.

on an argument of frindly neighbor it makes it great if a player who gets scum read easily to be confirmed ot someone cus then it can flip tables.

to me its very smaticy based dicussion and dependent on other factors to really decide which one is stronger. but on just role itself i would argue freindly neigbor is stronger mostly cus it s confirmed town where neighborhood has wifom games

[ika]

but again if you want to have that kinda o f dicussion hit me up on skype or chat. im all for throy talk but i dont like to bring it in games unless its needed

[ika]

well i think the universal consent is vig in ZX/dragon and lynch ohter

[ika]

I want to hear what Cho thinks.

Cho was strong townreading ZZZX, and I'm inclined to believe Cho. I still feel like ZZZX and Boo thing was not this weird bussing deal, I really don't. I also didn't like the ramp up of the ZZZX wagon, but I think Hydrangea was the only scum on it. I do not believe Bella L-1'd unannounced as scum.

ill second it on hearing thoughts in general but i am still very for the plan of vig one lynch other. call me instant but as long as we still have that understanding that this is the plan atm im fine with other dicussion, i just dont want diviations at this point in time. we all have a consense here.

[ika]

why is tere in vig list?

pedit: idc i will quetion it untill im satified

you have been alrgley absent form the game and we have been havign a lot of dicussion so i find it annoying to basicly come in and not even give any real imput on the said dicussion.

i can see some of it but you need to at least give us why on ZX cus that seems to eb the consense atm

[ika]

Frogger, Plum voyeured you Night 1 and got a negative result.

I really hope you're town because me being roleblocked AND you being mafia bulletproof is still plausible, setupwise - though that would mean you+mollie as scum expected yourselves to be voyeured.

i swear to fucking god if you vig that slot i will rage lynch you.

scum mollie would never fucking do that. end of story.

pedti:

mod vote count

ZX better hurry his ass up then cus i jsut went form a very kinda okish mood to shit cus of that.

marquis dont even think about it. frogger slot is off limits

pedit2: da faqu?

[ika]

im goign to be calm rage post to you cho cus i have enough self controll atm

shut the fuck up about your paranioa shit. if anything im going to refrence you to HU2 where mollie shut me out of posting cus i was being fucking paranoid.

im taing what mollie has taught me and saying put a cap on it untill tommorw if the game is not over after the hydra lynch and your vig shot

[ika]

ok i really didnt want to do this......

CHO SHUT THE FUCK UP AND STOP POSTING YOUR BRING STIPUDLY OVERLY PARNOID ABOUT THE FUCKIGN GAMESTATE JUST FUCKIGN VIG DRAGON AND IF THE DAMNED GAME ISNT OVER WE CAN DO IT FORM THERE

pedit: VOTE: hydra

we are moving fucking on i dont give shit if thats ahmmer. if it isnt someon eelse fuckign hamemr already

[ika]

we should nom it for kodak moment

[ika]

Let cho nk who he want a if he really is a vig

^This. I'm going to fucking vig who I want, thank you very much. Fuck your reads fuck your yelling.

let let me be blunt on this now that i got my rage out.

your doing no favors by staing your paranoid of slots. you are just making mist shit. if you got paranois shit you keep it to yourself

i should also apologize for my outlash but i wont only due to the fact what you are doing by stating such things is anti-town at best.

[ika]

Let cho nk who he want a if he really is a vig

^This. I'm going to fucking vig who I want, thank you very much. Fuck your reads fuck your yelling.

NO I WILL RAGE IN ALL CAPS ALL I WANT AND THAT WAS TYPED ON AN IPAD SO THAT WAS EFFORT DAMMIT BECAUSE I CANNOT FIND THE CAPS LOCK 11111!!!!!!!1111

tere, one warning:

If that is to try to lightent the mood or make light hearted humor about me its not working at fuckign all and is going to have quite the opposite affect on me

[ika]

Dude, chill, that was self mockery.

you realize though FMPOV it doesnt look like that since i was the one who cap rage?

but *shrugs* im all raged out and just irritated that i had to go t that again

[ika]

no regrets about day 1

also given the fact i called draogn scum in the PT based off my own anger and mollie slot town is funny

[ika]

but overall GG

game was over once boo flipped and evryone towned up.

[ika]

I'm not gunna lie...I was hoping Dragon would be able to ride my town read for a while. His early stuff wasn't great, but if there weren't so many people riding on meta townreads of everyone, his later stuff wasn't too bad.

GG, town...so close!

the moment he begane doing nothing was the moment i knew your slot was scum

theres a fine line on how someone lurks and how dragon was going it was exactly like macs doings in herthstone.

i had suspicions of you as well and if you staying in i prob would of pushed your lynch out

[ika]

Eh, I played pretty on point with my town meta, which is never SO TOWN, so I wasn't really panicking. My issue was with a group of five people who knew each other SO WELL, it was really hard to penetrate that into a town read on people who didn't know me so well. I knew it wouldn't last forever, but I'm pretty proud of myself for not succumbing to the pressure I had on me at the beginning of the game and being as honest as possible with my reads. Metal Sonic threw me for a loop and I was 100% honest with how I reacted to that.

I still don't like feeling like I manipulated the two people I really wanted to play with in the first place. That was the hardest part about being scum.

I wasnt reading you based on meta though? I was reading you based on how you were playing and how you were going about the gamestate.

Frankly it was mostly a gut call on you that you were scum based on your interactions. Its really unexplainable but something about your play just felt off and not town oriented. Also after watchign the team mafia i felt like you were playing in a subpar way if that makes sense.

*shurgs*

I admit you not scumbing is good but i will also agree that you kinda had a stacked deck where it was a large playerbase that knew each others plays and that it was going to be a POE battle towards the end but oh well. I think overall you would of been able to slip under the radar for a while but i think towards the end POE would of taken you. From what i recall you were low on sorting in my list when you were here

[ika]

Games over. No need to fight anymore. Especially since you guys won.

then people should be accepting blames and not lashing out on single people all post game.

everyone had their fair share of shit but when people don't acknowledge it and decide to redirect it to an individual to make themselfs look better then theres a problem

/my 2 cents

[ika]

@mollie you didn't reply me so I took it as a "no I don't care and I hate you and I don't want to sort shit out with you" so i was upset and began the trashing. which was not unjustified

but going overboard on AtE and claiming to contact 5 listmods and basicly bringing an outside influence to the game is?

[ika]

If you show me where he "lied" about listmod interaction (and that he actually did lie instead of you getting caught up in thinking he lied and that he couldn't possibly have actually told the truth here), I'll be content to retract the above statements and I apologize. But I can't just sit here and watch this anymore.

The lie is in the fact he "contacted" 5 listmods and that hes projecting his own imagry on the situation and trying to put molie in a bad light and make her look like the victim is the problem pie

You already agreed in geneal what he did was wrong, it doesnt make it right to further act it out and make mollie look bad out of all of it. Sonic was the starting point and given how he is and how he acted about it is what the problem is. Both parites are at fault, mollie already admitited to her errors now MS should do the same and not be trying to make himself look better is and will be a problem.