Mini 1677 - Ori and the Blind Forest Mafia - Forest Revived

[Fro99er]

Also, apparently I've played with more people than I thought because now that I remember Yukari, I was in the newbie game with them I think last fall and they were mislynched for being..."off" if I remember correctly. I have a hard time associating "one-off" games I've played with people and remembering much about them. >_>

Actually, Yukari was VT (like you in that game), but they were endgamed. I'm digging through to see if they were scumread at any point (and if so, why). Or if they were town read the whole way through and if that playstyle fits the current playstyle in any way.

what?

I will explain this to you slowly.

Singer said she was in a game with Yukari.
Singer thought she remembered that Yukari got mislynched (as in, town getting lynched).
I looked up that game and Yukari was town.
But Yukari was not lynched and was endgamed instead.
The rest is me saying I was going to read that game for playstyle reads on Yukari.

What are you drinking? I'd like some (no, seriously, I would like some. It's 1am and I'm still not tipsy!).

[Fro99er]

^^Frogger (obv)

[Fro99er]

Sigh. I wish Mollie and I even crossed being on gchat today, but we didn't. I had a couple quick breaks to get my responses to her in here through the game thread.

I feel like I have A LOT to say, but I'm not even sure Mollie agrees with me on what I have to say, because I haven't gotten to talk to her. I also bring a very different perspective, and one that probably won't get listened to much anyway. But things are really starting to click here.

[Fro99er]

I

want

us to be lynched so I can gracefully step out. and with our town flip some peeps will do some hardcore reevaluation.

This. At this point, I believe our lynch isn't even a bad thing for town, even though it's better to lynch scum. I'll post more tonight.

[Fro99er]

if we lynch her today and she flips scum it will be an award winning wagon.

You care too much about winning awards instead of playing with integrity. And you won't be winning an award for this game.

(Frog)

[Fro99er]

molie: why was pie killed over me?

I dn't fucking know also I'm drunk

[Fro99er]

mollie, are you scum?

and if not i want to know why you are not. if you want to work with me now you have to realize im going to hard press you to your fullest as well

Seriously Ika. I konw you can't blieve me yet (unless you're scum), but we're not fucking scum. iOur VT claim was TRUTH. I'm on V/LA traveling ffor work but Seriously. I'm wasted as shit but god fucking dammit Mollie is a hell of a scumhungter and i'm doing my fucking best to scumhunt as well. Otherwise I wouldn't put such a decent case on Yukari and townread singer slot and qfuck i'm drunk. I've probably singled out yukari too much but let's be honest he (the>y?) hve been scum as fuck and I'll do a better job when I'm not traveling drunk ass as I am now.

or were you expecting us to just roll over and say yrs we're sucm?

I love how you flip flop and turs tu su but then go into full on not trust us mode an d ask us to convince you. I fully admit after Metals' flip it makes us scummy as all hell but you know what we wouldn't have pushed that like that if it wasn't waht we believed AS A TEAM. There's nobody I'd rather play with than mollie. So we fucked up. We're all human. I haven't played a perfect game on this site ye4t.

i need to wake up tomorrow and seriously review some things. This has been a tough game, because I think some players have lurked out of attention.

[Fro99er]

I'll stay in

[Fro99er]

I'm a little annoyed that Mollie is gone now. I liked mollie.

I love Mollie. But she couldn't take it anymore. It's ok, you can like me too.

People I am not lynching today:
Fro99er
Tere
Grib
ika
dragonspawn

People I am considering:
Plum
ZZZX
Boo
Bella
Hydra

People I am reconsidering:
Cho

[Fro99er]

p-edit: FroggingMollie, if chokari flips town I'm scum? Why?

I did a reread of your ISO yesterday as I was just wrapping up stuff at work, and then leaving work. Going through your ISO again, I honestly can't find it. I should have made a note of it. I believe it was somewhere in the vig/setup talk with MS/Yukari and then early D2 talk with Yukari about why my slot was still alive, but can't find it now. I'll scratch it from the record in my brain that if Cho flips town, that gives me a more scum lean on you because it doesn't even make sense to me now.

TBH, I reread again, and I felt much more comfortable with your posts today. But there was one that really pinged me both days.. Post 844 commenting on the current wagons.

Spoiler: wagons as of 844

Vote Count 1.20

Metal Sonic (5)

- Frogging Mollie, ika, Bellaphant, Plum, Hydrangea

[L-2]

Bookitty (4)

- elusive, White Night Imagination, ZZZX, Metal Sonic

Yukari (1)

- Bookitty

ZZZX (1)

- Yukari
Bellaphant -
elusive -
Frogging Mollie -
Grib -
Hydrangea -
ika -
Plum -
singersigner -
White Night Imagination -



Not Voting (2): Grib, singersigner

I wasn't sure of your motivation behind it, and still am not. From my perspective, we are town, ika is town, Plum at the time was town. You and Hydrangea were nullish. So to us it was you trying to put yourself in the town wagon and push a lynch of sonic and defend boo. Not sure.

[Fro99er]

we=me, us=I. I'm trying to get into single head mode now

[Fro99er]

I want to vote one of ZZZX or Plum. I need to figure out which.

UNVOTE:

[Fro99er]

I want to vote Boo or Plum now. And still possibly Cho. Dragonspawn helped me believe town!ZZZX. And weirdly Cho too.

*Reaches out to Cho*...why do you townlean Plum? Expand on your Boo vote please.

[Fro99er]

I agree with Grib's line of thinking that either ZZZX or Plum have a good likelihood of being scum as one of the one's off the MS wagon D1, but I think Grib is on the wrong one. Evidenced D2 by Plum's opportunistic vote on ZZZX as sheeping Grib's line of thinking to "agree" with this while "of course it cant be me". Now Plum is opportunistically on a Bookitty wagon that Cho started.

I still cannot understand Plum's motivation for not wanting to sort myself/Cho. Wouldn't you want to sort that? You're clearly conflicted by us (also, I love the ZZZX reasoning now that your sheeping on ZZZX didn't work).

{Cho, Frogmollie, ZZZX}
This is the part where I feel bad and I say straight out that it'll be so hard to ever convince me to go after Cho because of Yukari's attempted trust tell. I feel awful because it's borderline cheating but I'm not sure if the site rules extend as far as this particular case? Like by the end of Day 1 I was like, maybe Yukari's a Vig, or maybe they're a, you know, real investigative powerrole, or maybe they're none of the freaking above. They are playing everything like a crazy person, and most of it in the way where crazy means not much makes traditional sense. Besides that bloody trust tell. I trust it, amid the swirling sandstorm of Yukari's play, this is something I have little doubt about working with. Also seriously someone should look into Yukari's use of it post game or something. Cho's actually been fine, too, so nothing there has made me doubt that.

I wouldn't expect Frogmollie to lay themselves on the line by pushing a Frogmollie/Yukari 1v1 today if she were scum, given that many people seem okay on the Cho/Yukari slot and not that many people want to drive it as a true 1v1. I might not expect Frogmollie to pursue MS the way they did Day 1 as scum, but somewhat less conviction on this part of it; extreme vocal pushes by scum on Town Day 1 are not unheard of, after all, but still. This is supplemented by reads e.g. Grib and Tere are holding, which I trust and inform this to some extent. At one point today I was willing to seriously consider lynching them, but that was based on trusting Grib's reading of the Yukari/Frogmollie situation. And I think I'd lynch them over Cho if it were a 1v1 choice.

I mean, I want to sort Bookitty and Plum, and I can't figure out which line of thinking is right, but I trust Tere more than Cho right now (no offesne Cho), and I've sorted ZZZX as town.

Finally, I think this is a scumslip:

Spoiler: scumslip?

hey plum

why do you find it so angst that I did not answer a tiny question that you hid at the back of a paragraph that was part of a huge wallpost? which was to explain my scumread on you

yet when mollie ignored grib's extremely large red bold text font question. to explain a scumread on me. you don't call her out?


even if you think that they are town, thats far beyond extreme hypocrisy.

WNI and Frogmollie have been talking past each other for pages and pages. At best, each is entrenched in their view of the situation. They both feel the other hasn't given them a fair shake or hasn't

really

answered their questions, and have often replied to 'why haven't you answered my question' with 'I already have, why haven't you answered mine?' and that sort of thing. One of the questions being large and in red text doesn't change the whole situation. It's just more rhetoric, and I've seen more than enough of it.

First, Metal was asking about Mollie not answering Grib, and somehow Plum tunred it into Mollie and WNI. Second, I personally use the phrase "talking past each other" when I'm referring to two people of the same alignment (or if I'm unsure of their alignment but believe they are the same alignment I'll say something like "I believe you two might be talking past each other"). It's like Plum knew WNI and I/Mollie had the same alignment.

VOTE: Plum

[Fro99er]

Ika, ready to reconnect?

[Fro99er]

@Plum: I'm heading to the gym then dinner, so I'll reply in full after.

But real quick, your response to bella about the part I believe is a scumslip was even worse. And certainly not town motivated.

Spoiler: Plumslip, Bella reply, Plum reply

hey plum

why do you find it so angst that I did not answer a tiny question that you hid at the back of a paragraph that was part of a huge wallpost? which was to explain my scumread on you

yet when mollie ignored grib's extremely large red bold text font question. to explain a scumread on me. you don't call her out?


even if you think that they are town, thats far beyond extreme hypocrisy.

WNI and Frogmollie have been talking past each other for pages and pages. At best, each is entrenched in their view of the situation. They both feel the other hasn't given them a fair shake or hasn't

really

answered their questions, and have often replied to 'why haven't you answered my question' with 'I already have, why haven't you answered mine?' and that sort of thing. One of the questions being large and in red text doesn't change the whole situation. It's just more rhetoric, and I've seen more than enough of it.

@plum, I mentioned a similar reading of the situation to WNI a while ago, and it didn't go down too well. It's frustrating I know, but do you think it's alignment indicative at all?

@plum, I mentioned a similar reading of the situation to WNI a while ago, and it didn't go down too well. It's frustrating I know, but do you think it's alignment indicative at all?

Meh. I'd rather hear something new and exciting from you.

[Fro99er]

I don't know what you people mean by 'sorting'.

To me, sorting is as defined. To be able to "arrange in groups". In the context of mafia, it means being able to place someone in the scum pile or the town pile (or if multiball parties existed, those piles) via whatever means necessary. This could include (but not limited to):
- Town tells
- Meta
- Reading their soul
- PoE
- Night actions
- etc.
So, in another context, when I have a bunch of red and green marbles, I can sort them by color into the red pile and the green pile. Unless I'm red/green color blind. This is how I view you on myself/Cho. Color blind.

I wish I were convinced that just one flip in this game could resolve anything. And I blame Yukari entirely. I have every reason to believe that whatever your alignment is, you're playing it in a way I and most others would recognize as rational. I have no reason to believe that, whatever Yukari's alignment (I'd say Town if you put a gun to my head, so), they were playing it in a way I or most here would recognize as rational

You have yet to sort either of us into the scum or town pile. Just some 'gun to your head' stuff. You use the prase 'whatever your alignment is' about both myself and Chokari slot. That's not sorting.

Obviously terminology after my time, really, because everyone keeps using the word. Does it mean 'determine a reasonably strong read on a player to be going on with'? Does it mean 'literally determine another player's alignment beyond a doubt, e.g. via lynch'? I've sorted you and Cho for today for the first definition. For the second, I think my response to the first indicates why I'm not interested in a lynch to get the second currently.

So your reason for not wanting to pursue the 1v1 is because you've 'sorted' us? I don't believe you've sorted us, except by your odd defintion of 'determining a strong read', because I haven't seen you put a strong read on us. You haven't solidly put either of us in the town pile or the scum pile. You've indicated (not clearly though) town leans on both of us, but, sorting? No.

I can understand Tere's motivation for not pursuing the 1v1. She strong town reads both myself and Cho.

[Fro99er]

Tere, are you seriously going to do this...

Mollie, you know me well. How clear do I have to be on a read before I go for a strong scum read?

Genuine question.

God can you people not lynch obvscum I rarely do this Jesus fuck.

...threaten to rage postgame, then drive off my hydra partner, and then now back off on your Plum convictions?

Sigh. I don't know if its a style thing but honestly Plum's stuff seems so carefully crafted / considered to me I am not in a happy place. I think my vote has to stay there.

I kinda want to add :/ to that because it could be a style thing and she is engaging a bit more now.

Bunch of bloody scumlords.

I will be outdoing social stuff with my Mum tomorrow but hydrangea is the compromise lynch if we must. But the scripted tone of Plum is still giving me heebie jeebies. And the non notified l-2 on z was aurrrrgh. I need to remember that.

I'd rather not go for a compromise lynch. I'd rather SORT IMPORTANT STUFF OUT.

Either

myself/Cho
Plum/Boo

Those will be more informative flips for town IMO.

[Fro99er]

Oh my god. By "Meh" I meant to indicate "yeah, I'm not sure it's alignment indicative, but given where my vote is and the way things are, making that point isn't really new or impressive or helpful, so why don't you &c.?' In fact I never argued that WNI or Frogmollie was scum on basis of *how* the argument was being handled (though I questioned why WNI hadn't pursued a Frogmollie vote or anything given his clear stance and read there). So Bellaphant's comment to me seemed barely relevant. Or, you might say, "meh".

I mean, Bella was agreeing about WNI and Mollie not seeing eye to eye, and trying to engage you on that and make conversation about it about alignment. And you just brushed her off.

Also, why did you never vote metal. You kept sayinig how scummy he was at end of D1, but you never voted him at end of D1.

[Fro99er]

@frogger I am not doing a 1 v 1 you and Cho today.

I get that, and that's fine. I'm just trying to make a point not to settle for a compromise lynch.

I can back a 1 v 1 with plum / boo. I am still screading Plum in case it is not obvious. The "frustration" reads fake, it all feels a bit planned.

What happened to obvscum though? You sound like you're starting to doubt yourself a little on Plum.

[Fro99er]

This isn't about Mollie now. I know how she feels about it. Let's focus on the game now, k? Thanks.

[Fro99er]

i won't lynch dragon today. Maybe later if things change and we get more info. As I said, Mollie and I separately came to town reads of singer, and we both know singer super well. DS hasn't improved the slot, but he hasn't hurt it much, if any, in my mind.

I understand where you're coming from, but ZZZX and Plum are even more 1v1 than Plum/Boo. But I'm pretty confident ZZZX is town here. Trust Cho on this one too. That's even more reason for me to want to lynch Plum.

Grib, I think you can see (from your perspective) it's either ZZZX or Plum, no?

[Fro99er]

I don't want to speculate on scumteams until we get a flip though. Sorting some of these 1v1s out will start to clear things up a lot.

[Fro99er]

Frogger, why are you getting on Tere's case for having shades of doubt about her scumread on me? For heavens' sake, it's not like she's even moved her vote or made much more than a token musing about Hydrangea as a compromise-type lynch.

Three reasons:

1. what went down with her/mollie, I'm a bit annoyed at Tere. I should brush it off and play the game, but I ENJOY playing this silly game with Mollie.
2. Her insistence on you being confscum, then backing off it. It's frustrating to be like "I NEVER DO THIS CONFSCUM THING UNLESS I MEAN IT" ... then back off it.
3. I prod and push and poke at things. That's just me. Annoying at times? Yes. Can't really change myself.

[Fro99er]

I had a big reply written up last night then the great internetz crash of the Fro99ger and LadyFro99er household of 2015 happened.

Basically to sum it up. I liked Plum's defense to my push. That didn't feel scripted. I also like their push on Boo. I had a bunch more stuff to add, mostly revolving around boo saying "I hate when so and so says if X flips town I'm hunting Y", then MS flips scum so she votes me/Mollie. Then she slowly moves us back in the town pool, then 1620 WHAMMO...FROGGING MOLLIE IS TOP TOWN READ!!! Also a general lack of scumhunting, some admitted useless/helplessness (then pushing ZZZX for the same).

I'm ok sorting Boo and Plum as I have already mentioned. And ZZZX. There's a weird three way thing going on there (get your minds out of the gutter)!

Also, the last line was <3 @boo - this is all game related, and you're pretty damn cool from what I've played with, so nothing personal

VOTE: Bookitty

[Fro99er]

Ugh. I'm feeling less easy about this Boo thing. Cho and Plum were the initial Boo voters, two people I feel uneasy about already, voting someone else I feel uneasy about. Then there's ZZZX, who I'm townreading thanks to dragonspawn and Cho, but who Boo slightly pushed (but not really), and who Plum voted earlier (and ZZZX voted Plum). It's all a mess.

I think I have to stick with Boo, for doing the least scumhunting, as well as some contradictory things. Just know I'm not too thrilled about this situation. It's all clear as mud.

But...we still have three days. People, let's try to be a little less apathetic about this game. D1 is done. The fighting is done. Let's have some fun playing this game!

[Fro99er]

well actualy it doesnt madate an outside killing source at all if we really wanted to get smaticy. but thats just me now being a dicka bout it

You're just being truthful.

I'm still super uncomfortable with the Chokari slot.

[Fro99er]

I mean. If there were another vig, you'd have likely been CC'd if my theory is correct (still learning). I don't see why there'd be two town vig's in this setup. You weren't CC'd. So either there's no town vig or you are the vig. Plain and simple.

(someone please absolutely step in if my theory is wrong, but assuming it's right...) It's all speculation about the setup and WIFOM from there.

[Fro99er]

if Mafia knew there was a Bulletproof, why would they claim vig at all

Are you asking us to believe Yukari thought logically?

[Fro99er]

I mean, I don't want to vote you right now. I'm just saying, I'm not convinced yet. It's still all a CF around Cho/Boo/Plum/ZZZX IMO.

[Fro99er]

if Mafia knew there was a Bulletproof, why would they claim vig at all, especially unprompted on Day 1?

Why would town claim vig unprompted?

[Fro99er]

I'm asking you to believe scum doesn't play suicidally for the sole purpose of lynching one scumread on Day 1.

Hate on them all you want, but characterizing Yukari as some blind scum idiot like everyone seems to enjoy doing is pretty unjust.

I'm not characterizing Yukari as some blind scum idiot. Idiot? Possibly. Scum idiot. I don't know.

I said I'm unsure. I was more sure earlier until you started put a halfway decent defense up for that slot.

[Fro99er]

There you go, ika. That's why I've started to lean town instead of scum on that slot. I said I'm not convinced. That's why I'm prying and asking, to see if Cho's points make sense.

[Fro99er]

or to clairfy: chos logic is sound, but it falls short on sevral aspects that are debatable

Agree

[Fro99er]

That's exactly where my mind is at right now.

[Fro99er]

Well I mean if it's X-shot it'd definitely be 2-shot or more, judging by post 2.

I agree with this.

I know this looks like me trying to set up reasons not to lynch me tomorrow as if I already know my kill's not going to go through. But like. Your post is pretty much setting up for me to be roleblocked again.

I didn't want to bring this up.

Also let me say one last time, if some town doc protected Frogger last night and chose to let a likely vig eat the lynch instead of just providing a reason the kill didn't go through so we didn't have to potentially mislynch my slot over rb+bp spec, they suck.

1. I doubt you're getting lynched today. At this point I don't want to lynch you, but...
2. This is the argument that actually makes me WANT to vote you. Every time you bring this up (you played this angle before, but from the scum angle that scum wanted to roleblock you to get you lynched today), I feel like it's a contrived reason for you to want to avoid a lynch, which makes me want to lynch you a bit more. I replied to this angle (from the scum roleblock angle you had) in 1588.

[Fro99er]

It's what I did t like about yukari.

I noticed that too. Yukari set their "night kill" up for failure.

[Fro99er]

I'm starting to kinda want to lynch Cho now again, but if not...

oh btw cho, if your not proven tongiht im going full out lynch you

[Fro99er]

I don't really care tbh. If you guys are just going to ignore cold logic and plain common sense there's not much point in playing here or bothering to argue against a dumb lynch.

Nobody's ignoring anything. I've moved away from voting you, listened to your points, agreed you've made some good ones, but you've also made some points I disagree with. That's how I play the game.

I think you've acquitted yourself well for the situation Yukari left you in, but I don't understand why you think we're all confbiasing. I've clearly, clearly listened to your points.

[Fro99er]

I'm starting to kinda want to lynch Cho now again, but if not...

oh btw cho, if your not proven tongiht im going full out lynch you

I'm moving away from this again.

A good night's sleep helps clear the mind. I want to lynch Boo, and we'll sort everything else out D3 after the night phase.

[Fro99er]

I'd like Hydrangea to answer Plum's question

[Fro99er]

52 hours until deadline. For the record, I will NOT be around this evening (USA east coast time), tomorrow evening, or near deadline. My vote will have to be locked in by saturday morning (and I'll probably be hungover then too).

[Fro99er]

not answering the question is basically a scumclaim, right?

This

[Fro99er]

@Mod: can we get a prod for ZZZX

[Fro99er]

Again, FMPOV you have every possbility of being an sk. It may be reachy as hell, but its somethign that lingers in my mind.

I highly, highly doubt Cho is an SK. Yukari is not be clever enough to make that up, IMO. A fake vig claim, I could see from Yukari (but am starting to rule it out based on no CC), or a real vig claim, but not a fake vig claim as an SK.

[Fro99er]

VOTE: Hydrangea

Obvscum is obvscum

[Fro99er]

And apparently also V/LA.

[Fro99er]

Ahahaha, they shot the mislynch.

Who did what? I'm sorry if something is going over my head.

I'm the Tracker.
N1 > Yukari/Cho > nowhere. The mod confirmed that if mollie was Bulletproof/protected, I would have seen Yukari/Cho visiting her.
N2 > Hydrangea > Cho.

If Hydrangea flips Roleblocker, Cho is confirmed.

So N1 Chokari either got blocked or is lying?
and N2 Hydrangea targeted Cho?

[Fro99er]

Does this rule out Cho as an SK also?

I'm still inclined to believe Chokari slot, even if it doesn't rule out an SK, but just curious on the theory. Still new, and this is my first non newbie game, so still trying to figure things out.

[Fro99er]

So, Hydrangea is obviously the roleblocker, is what it sounds like.

[Fro99er]

I mean, at this point we have to sort either Hydrangea or Cho. But based on the Boo flip, and the interactions between Boo and Hydrangea and Boo and Chokari slot, it's pretty obviously Hydrangea, no?

[Fro99er]

I also guess if Hydrangea flips town, we'd have to suspect one or both of Grib and Cho. But I seeerrrriiioouuuusssllllyyyy doubt this is the case. I also don't care to pick one or the other (or both) of Grib/Cho until there is a flip, because I think we're on the right track.

I agree, we should not hammer until we hear from Hydrangea. Especially given we didn't hear from them before the Bookitty lynch.

[Fro99er]

i dont see them shooting plume unless rolecopped.

I'll be the newbie who asks why...why?

[Fro99er]

Ok, makes sense.

So who was pushing plum yesterday? I know myself, ZZZX, and Tere did at some point or another. I'd have to go back and read through D2 (ugh) to figure out who else was.

[Fro99er]

@Mod: I am officially on V/LA from Monday through Thursday (6/18) because of all day work meetings but I will try to respond in the evenings anyway. Except Tuesday evening. USA women's world cup (GO USA!)

[Fro99er]

Plums hesitation on sorting me and Cho yesterda makes sense now too

[Fro99er]

can we leave bella out of vig pool for sake of my motivation? the fact mollie already left kinda made me shitty

Aww, Ika. I like you. I'm sorry I'm not as awesome as Mollie, but stay motivated for Froggy!

Also, I'm not on board with lynching Bella right now.

[Fro99er]

(Or having someone vig her)

[Fro99er]

I'm a little concerned with the lining up of vig's and lynches. I do think we should lynch hydrangea today and discuss who should be vigged tonight. But I'm not sold on one of dragon or ZZZX being scum. I think we should hunt more into their interactions with both boo/hydrangea (assuming hydrangea flips scum) to be sure this is the direction we want to head. Some wagon analysis might be in order as well.

I need to review dragonspawn more closely, yes. I'm poorly still hanging on to a town read of singer in the back of my mind, and shouldn't let that hold me back from digging deeper into dragon.

[Fro99er]

if thats the case we are still in most agreement but just not on who should be going first

Correct.

[Fro99er]

So what you guys are saying is that you are going to kill zzzx and I and that there is really no point in us continuing to play since we are dead anyway.

I don't see how just killing townies is going to help us win this game. But ill still do what I can still you kill me.

I'm not on board with lining up lynches beyond lynching Hydrangea tonight.

I think it's fair to give vig reads. Without a roleblocker (presuming that's what Hydrangea flips), Cho will need to pick a target.

But tomorrow lynches, I'd rather wait for flips and night play. It doesn't mean we can't speculate on interactions of Boo/Hydrangea with the rest of town (knowing Boo is scum, and likely Hydrangea is scum).

[Fro99er]

pedti: what do you think the order should be then? cus if it has same end results would it matter?

As of right now

after we lynch hydrangea I'd rather vig ZZZX instead of Dragon.

But I'm not sold on those yet.

Definitely don't want to vig Bella.

I don't want to line up a lynch for tomorrow before seeing flips.

[Fro99er]

If Z is scum, we need to look at the speed wagon of him earlier.

This is a good point, but if Z flips town it's going to make you look awfully suspicious.

[Fro99er]

As of now:

Vig: ZZZX
Lynch: I guess dragon. I think Bella is town. But I will need to evolve this read with more talk today and D4 if I'm not NK'd.

[Fro99er]

ZX/Plum interaction first of all.

Also, if we believe Grib's point that one of scum was OFF the Metal wagon, then ZZZX is it by PoE (since those off were ZZZX, Grib, Elu/Tere slot, and Plum). Two of those are conftown (assuming Grib isn't making this all up), Tere is strong town read.

Also, Boo tried to throw shade on ZZZX, but not really. It was pretty weak attempt at bussing, and came across half hearted.

[Fro99er]

I kinda want to vig dragon a bit more now...

[Fro99er]

I'm town reading him[ZZZX]

Why?

[Fro99er]

Vote Count 1.16

Bookitty (5)

-

Grib, elusive, Metal Sonic, White Night Imagination, Yukari

[L-2]

Metal Sonic

(4)

-

singersigner, Frogging Mollie, ika, Bellaphant

Yukari

(2)

-

ZZZX, Hydrangra

White Night Imagination

(1)

-

Plum

Bellaphant -
elusive -
Frogging Mollie -
Grib -
Hydrangea -
ika -
Plum -
singersigner -
ZZZX -


Not Voting (1):

Bookitty

This is interesting. Do we believe BOTH the MS and the Boo wagons were all town? Because

IF

Dragon/Singer slot is town and Bella slot is town, then the coloring above is how it paints out. I could see why the Boo wagon is all town, but not the MS wagon.

More than likely, I'd say ZZZX is town from this because the above just doesn't look right.

So Dragon and Bella are now more suspicious to me. But I still townread Bella.

Tere - didn't you have a way to sort Bella?

[Fro99er]

Tere and Ika aren't confirmed anything, though, are they?

Correct. Technically neither is my slot. But we have claimed VT. I'm just going off general consensus.

Also, I'm starting to lean dragon as the scum at this point, but not sure. Still need to do more digging of Boo/Hydra interactions with everyone else.

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oh just an fyi. im going full on dump mode on thoughts in neghborhood.

so if i die n1 WNi is to give out everythign i post and all my thoughts or to be lynched pronto.

if MS is in there im not talking at all

I have this weird feeling we should massclaim. Both flavor name and role.

Am I crazy?

[Fro99er]

I mentioned it to Grib, but he didn't seem to be a fan?

When did you mention this? D2? D3?

[Fro99er]

Also

@Mod can you re-prod ZZZX or replace? I saw him online today, and you prodded him before the Boo lynch

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froog er what do you hope to get by massclaim anyway?

It would be interesting to see what Hydrangea claims, and if that can give any insight into the other scum.

Metal said some things that pinged me, and I'm curious if they hold true.

[Fro99er]

Who has to be lying?

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ZZZX, I actually don't think you are scum. I started second guessing myself and talked myself into you!scum. I think scum is most likely dragonspawn instead (after obvscum of Hydrangea).

[Fro99er]

ZZZX, on board with a mass claim?

[Fro99er]

If I'm honest I'm not really sure I want to wait for Hydrangea, given she just ignored the questions to her at round end, we could end up chasing our tails like this for most of the week.

The only reason I'd wait isn't to hear from hydrangea, but to figure out a night vig for Cho. But Cho's smart enough to be able to figure things out, so even then I don't really care too much. I'm all for lynching obvscum and getting this game over with sooner.

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(and by over wtih, I mean one step closer to over with)

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I want to hear what Cho thinks.

Cho was strong townreading ZZZX, and I'm inclined to believe Cho. I still feel like ZZZX and Boo thing was not this weird bussing deal, I really don't. I also didn't like the ramp up of the ZZZX wagon, but I think Hydrangea was the only scum on it. I do not believe Bella L-1'd unannounced as scum.

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Jesus christ people stop begging to to not be vigged or that low on the reads list.

[Fro99er]

Plum definitely checked that Cho was roleblocked. It makes sense why Plum didn't want to sort me vs. Cho on D2, because they KNEW Cho was roleblocked.

Plum is voyeur, so if they targeted me, they would have gotten no result (since Cho's attempt at me was blocked). Isn't that the case?

[Fro99er]

I'm with Cho on this.

I think we should just lynch Hydrangea. I don't even care to wait. Cho will do what Cho will do

(BTW, it also sounds like we have consensus on Dragon).

Pedit: Cho, that's exactly what I'm saying. No actions.

[Fro99er]

Plum definitely checked that Cho was roleblocked. It makes sense why Plum didn't want to sort me vs. Cho on D2, because they KNEW Cho was roleblocked.

Plum is voyeur, so if they targeted me, they would have gotten no result (since Cho's attempt at me was blocked). Isn't that the case?

If that's the case and hydra is the rb, was plum pushing hydra yesterday?

Plum wouldn't have known who the RB was. They just knew sorting myself and Cho was not the right path.

[Fro99er]

Ika, can you wait for ZZZX to catch up, then hammer Hydrangea?

[Fro99er]

Yeah, I can see that now based off the gem you found.

[Fro99er]

Plum definitely checked that Cho was roleblocked. It makes sense why Plum didn't want to sort me vs. Cho on D2, because they KNEW Cho was roleblocked.

Plum is voyeur, so if they targeted me, they would have gotten no result (since Cho's attempt at me was blocked). Isn't that the case?

If that's the case and hydra is the rb, was plum pushing hydra yesterday?

Here's a novel idea...you could take some initiative (which you haven't done all game) and ISO their slot and find out!

I did, and guess what. THE VERY LAST POST IN PLUM'S ISO IS THIS:

Hydrangea, talk about Bookitty?

I'd say Plum was at least suspicious of it, wouldn't you?

Feels like a last ditch attempt by you to want to deflect away from Hydrangea.

[Fro99er]

The more I talk about this, the more worried I get.

You're getting paranoid like I do when I think I've solved a game. That's why I briefly flipped reads on ZZZX here, then flipped back. At least I finally KNOW you're town.

(you're also not SK because Yukari isn't that clever to claim vig as SK).

[Fro99er]

Holy fuck Death Row's post made me think I posted in the wrong thread for a second...WHEW!

[Fro99er]

I'll just stop talking to Cho.

[Fro99er]

Fuck me. Just hammer Hydrangea. Don't need all this freakout bullshit.

[Fro99er]

IDGAF. Vig SOMEONE. HAMMER HYDRANGEA

[Fro99er]

Three hammers in the same minute LOLOLOLOL

[Fro99er]

Well that was definitely my favorite moment so far.

[Fro99er]

Seconded.

[Fro99er]

I'm dying laughing. My wife is made I woke her up from her nap.

[Fro99er]

It's a good think Ank is turning 22. If it was 21, we might not have a flip for days.

[Fro99er]

(coming from a USA perspective...derp)

[Fro99er]

GG everyone....thanks for a superfun first non newbie game

[Fro99er]

Nice shooting Choquis

[Fro99er]

Ank you did great!

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Wait, that means singer was scum.

I'm sad I let that go.

Sucking finger (jk <3)

[Fro99er]

gg town


thanks for modding Ank! you were great!

GG MS!

[Fro99er]

froggy <3

sorry to abandon you, I thought it was for the best.

<3 <3 <3

[Fro99er]

Yukari. It was fun trying to figure you out.

Now that Newbie 1609 is over, I was super confident about ZZZX as town here because meta from Newbie 1609 (Cho/ZZZX were scumteam) and Cho being town in this game. After I convinced myself that the Cho/Yukari slot had to be town vig, I was confident on ZZZX. I only second guessed the ZZZX thing because ika helped push me that direction. I get super WIFOMy in my head when I think I have the game solved, and start to second guess myself. But once reassured myself I knew ZZZX was town, and I knew Bella was town, I felt good about a dragonspawn NK. Just glad Cho went that direction.

I want to say Grib/Plum are probably my MVPs for their night actions. Plum did a great job not reacting to the Frogmollie/Chokari 1v1 on D2, and both gribs night actions were clutch.

[Fro99er]

<3 ika

[Fro99er]

CAN WE ALL STOP FIGHTING JESUS THE GAME IS OVER