Mini 429: Planar Chaos Mafia- Finally over (thanks ABR!)

[Cavane]

First page: What the hey? Go back to scumchat! But since TSQ has votes already, and I don't wanna get daykilled...

Vote creampuffkiller

for annoying the absolute crap out of me on page 1.

[Cavane]

Seriously.

[Cavane]

4) That should be reversed. If the mod comes back and kills kison, then you should probably lynch me tommorow, because killing someone on the second page and killing discussion for the day would be way more scummy than joking about being a dayvig. (which isn't scummy at all, bee tee dubs.)

QFT. Not sure whether I agree with #7 though. Anyway, it looks like we're moving out of the random voting stage, so I'll...

Unvote creampuffeater

Not sure why I wrote it as 'killer' before. You can daykill me if you want, CPE.

[Cavane]

Scum are ecto, and cavane. There is actually reasoning for this. It is not random.

That looks to be a pretty strong statement you're making. Care to explain said reasoning?

And if you're still trying to be funny, it's Page 3. Time to start playing Mafia.

[Cavane]

And what about ecto? You seem to be under the impression that I said "oh noes y u say im scum?!?!'. No, I asked for your reasoning. You gave me half of it, and its not really very good. As you say, scum love the random voting phase. I've been trying to end that as much as anyone else here, as evidenced by my annoyance at your joking around.

Now I will agree with you on one point, it's likely that some or even all (less likely) of the scum have been on your bandwagon at some point. I'm not sure whether I buy that you and CPE carfully planned and executed Page 1, but it seems to have accomplished something, nonetheless.

I'm not interested in arguing with you, however, and I'd like to hear from some others, namely the ones that did jump on your wagon: Why?

[Cavane]

I thought I did respond. I wasn't anxious to go into point-by-point defense of myself, since so many people call that scummy whether the defense is valid or not. But since you press me, here goes:

I couldn't have been the first person to vote you if I wanted to (which I did). I wasn't on until a day after the game started. If no one else had already voted you, I would've, because it was random voting, and you were bugging me. I don't think your play has been scummy. I've never said as much. I would've removed a vote on you at the same time I removed my CPE vote.

I also never said I thought you were

still

joking around. In fact, in my last post, I validated what you had done!

...it seems to have accomplished something, nonetheless.

The reason I 'downplayed' it earlier was because I had no idea that was a usual tactic employed by you. I'm not a proponent of using metagame in any case, but look at my join date. I don't understand why you harp on the fact that I expressed my irritation with your playstyle, when I have no way of knowing that you use it often.

[Cavane]

I've played Mafia a lot before IRL, but this -is- the first board I've been on. I simply spent plenty of time reading through the wiki and a few newbie threads to pick up on the lingo before I started playing.

[Cavane]

my case on cavane is based on the fact that he tried to throw suspicion on my, and then DIDN;T VOTE ME FOR IT

Please show me where I have ever tried to throw suspicion on you.

Discussion and a first wagon are not intended to get a lynch. In fact, the purpose of them is stated in your own post. "people get pissed off" these are, in my experience, about 50% more likely to be scum, because they want the town to misslynch out annoyance.

So... people who jumped on your wagon are scummy... and people who never voted for you... are scummy? Do I have this right? (That's me being sarcastic, by the way. You aren't the only one.)

Let me get this clear, since it seems I haven't already. I DO NOT THINK TQS IS SCUM. Yet, at least. So far, you seem to me to be genuinely trying to hunt down scum. The only thing I've seen from you so far that

might

be construed as scummy is your aggression. You and others say that it's your playstyle, and I believe it.

I don't like having to defend myself this hard. As I've said before, many people see over-defensive playing as a scumtell. But your refusal to even comment on the arguements I've put forth leaves me with little choice.

Please

read back through the thread. Your entire case against me is built on my FIRST POST. Random voting stage. I've already explained this. Take notice.

[Cavane]

I'm entertaining the idea that Quagmire may be a Jester. He's been pushing his random vote senselessly WAY past the time that everyone else has moved on. And just look at his last post.

[Cavane]

This is ridiculous. We've got the veteren's club here making inside jokes, calling each other by AIM or other nicknames, making inside jokes, playing with very unorthodox styles, and the rest of us who haven't been around for months and years are completely lost. It's not helpful, it's not fun, and it's getting old. Time to play Mafia.

[Cavane]

And I mentioned inside jokes twice because they're twice as annoying.

[Cavane]

Thank you, sir. Though I'm not entirely sure where to go from here. The discussion derailed some time ago, and this page is pretty much all tantrums, so... random voting again? I don't really like that option at all, ANY other suggestions would be greatly welcome.

[Cavane]

Everyone shut the hell up about whatever stupid problems you have with nicknames and PLAY. SOME. MAFIA.

Everyone means everyone. Ecto, and TSQ, nobody else cares anymore. But don't even try to pretend you've been 'playing Mafia' all along. We've had maybe 2 pages of real discussion, in total. At this rate, the game will be finished sometime in June. Of next year.

Everyone

get the hell over yourselves.

[Cavane]

think of it this way: how much more information can we possibly find on day one?

Play a C9 game and maybe you'll see. And maybe if you read posts as well.

Also, who's shea? I've never seen him post.

So far, you seem far more worthless a player to me, than AniX.

[Cavane]

Writing off Day 1 because we don't "know" anything is a rubbish strategy. I'll give you that we have no solid information to go on, but let's say we listen to you, all vote AniX, and go to Night. Pure odds heavily favor him being town. Assuming he is, scum kill another townie, and we start D2.

What now? What do we know in D2 that we didn't know in D1, except that a couple of people (possibly even power roles) are out of the game? That information does us no good, expect to narrow down the selection for that day.

We need discussion. We need to see voting patterns established. We need to get

everyone

to talk so that we have some way of applying the information we get when we do end D1.

And for the record, I would much rather have AniX here right now than you. He's at least trying to get discussion going. You're trying to end D1 after all we've done is fight about what people are called.

[Cavane]

happy, guys?

Happier, at any rate.

because if you pursued any alternatives, you would be totally viewed as scummy -- an emotional, OMGUS response would be a sign of weakness and nerves.

I think that's pretty WIFOM, but I'll keep it in mind, nonetheless.

At any rate, this is the first real logic I've seen from you. Because I don't consider "Let's vote AniX!" "Why aren't you voting AniX?" "Hey guys, we should all vote for AniX!" to be logical play. I'm more pleased with your last post however, and I'm glad the game is finally starting.

[Cavane]

Prods on:

BeHappyNewYear, Cephrir, and Aelyn please.

None of them have posted since it turned May.

[Cavane]

If it weren't for Post 149, I'd be certain Quag has some kind of post restriction. I'd be very surprised if he is scum, so I can't really support a lynch on him at this time. It's better to ignore annoying/unhelpful players than vote them off. Do too much of that and you'll soon find yourself at lylo with little to go on.

[Cavane]

1. Yama's "bait-and-switch' vote.

2. TSQ's overall additude that he knows something we don't and his apparant reluctance to share it.

3. Going after Quag for being annoying. He's an easy target, but hardly anyone really thinks he's scummy.

[Cavane]

Yama, do you give out your account passwords? You're playing completely different than you were early in the day. Your voting without explanation is getting to me as well. You were called out for it last page, why are you still doing it?

Vote Yamahako

. With an impending deadline, it's time to pick a camp.

Mod:

Were those prods I asked for last page sent out? If so, were they picked up? If not, can we get replacements, please?

[Cavane]

I'd like to ask for an extension when BHNY's replacement arrives, because:

A) I'm kind of waiting around for that to happen.

and

B) It's not really fair if we get a replacement and have, like, 5 days to work with them.

[Cavane]

You have some good points in there, and I'm considering them. I'd like to see how Ecto responds before I consider changing my vote. I'm also curious as to why you've waited this long to present your case. The posts you quoted have all been around for over a week.

MOD:

Are we going to deadline without a replacement? I'd like to know because I don't like playing without a full deck, but if the deadline is still set for 11 of us, I guess I have to, heh.

[Cavane]

Also, it's pretty condescending of you to tell people what they can and cannot say. If I know people, I will refer to them however I please. You will just have to deal with it.

Please don't start that up again. The Mod already asked that everyone refer to each other by forum names.

Hello again, Lowell. I'd also like to hear your reasoning for the strong town vibes. I agree on TSQ, but I didn't have much of a read on Ceph, who hasn't said a whole lot so far. I especially would like to hear what's behind your read on Ecto, right after TSQ posted a pretty strong case against him.

And mod: Thanks for the extension!

[Cavane]

Mod Announcement: I DID say that people should refer to each other as their forum names to prevent confusion. I think it got deleted in the crash some time ago. Please continue to abide by this guideline.

Thanks. Good to know I didn't go crazy, because I knew I saw you post that.

Anyway, I think Ecto offered a fairly strong defense. Particularly against your accusations that he jumped onto a Quag wagon. When you posted that it was the biggest wagon, I didn't bother checking the thread (shame on me) but I just have and he's right. If you respond to nothing else in his counter-arguement, I'd at least like to see your response to that before you head off.

And I don't know about you guys, but I could do with a

votecount

. I'm just so demanding of our Mod, aren't I?

[Cavane]

I bet the scum in this game are so happy right now...

Here's an unofficial votecount. Pretty sure it's correct, but if your vote's in the wrong spot, please speak up.

AniX (2)- Quagmire, Yamahako
Kison (2)- creampuffeater, Cephrir
Quagmire (2)- Ectomancer, TheStatusQuo
Yamahako (2)- Kison, Cavane
Cephrir (1)- Aelyn
DeanWinchester (1)- Lowell

Not Voting (2)- AniX, DeanWinchester

And we have a four-way tie and less than a week to deadline. I'm considering changing my vote to Dean. When I was checking through the votes, I was unimpressed by his wishy-washy voting. I think he's been trying very hard to stay out of the spotlight and cover his tracks.

[Cavane]

That was more of a feeler, to see what other people's thoughts were on Dean. I'm aware it wouldn't solve the deadlock at all, which is why I didn't bother changing my vote. I'm running up a Dean flag and I want to see if anyone salutes.

[Cavane]

Cavane: You said you were waiting for ectos reply. You have now gotten it, and my reply as well. Post how you feel about that, as well as any other relevent game information.

I did post my thoughts after Ecto's reply. Your reply to Ecto I didn't comment on because it seems to me that the discussion between you two has degenerated to wordy forms of "NO U". My overall thoughts on the case: Some points are valid, and some aren't. I think I'll give Yama a reprieve today, since I'd like to see how his promise of info tomorrow pans out. With that said, I'll go ahead and my vote to my next suspect.

Unvote; Vote DeanWinchester

See my prior posts if you don't get that.

[Cavane]

lowell, who has not said anything worthwhile...

Why are you attacking Lowell for being unhelpful (which I don't deny) after condeming Quag for doing the same to AniX?

[Cavane]

I'm happier with a Dean lynch than a Ceph lynch. As far as I know, the Ceph case is based on him being unhelpful. I almost never buy cases like that unless there's a fair amount of scumminess to go with it. Dean's been pretty convienantly wishy washy with his voting, and hasn't bothered to explain himself. So I'm happy with my vote. We don't need to hit half majority, so unless a bunch of people switch to no-lynch in the next few hours, someone WILL be lynched.

[Cavane]

I never said the case was obvious, I said he was doing wishy washy voting, and hasn't answered for it since. I don't think you read my last post, but I'll elaborate.

Post 200 he votes Yama and says nothing.

222, his very next post, he unvotes saying the wagon was stupid and he voted for reactions.

229, his next post, he votes Quag.

240, also his next post, he unvotes, saying it should have stayed an FoS.

Couple of nothing posts...

296 voting Yama again.

All of these votes take advantage of 'obvious' scumtells, followed by unvotes when no one follows. And his only defense was to say that no, he wasn't being wishy washy.

[Cavane]

Just FYI guys, we don't need half majority in this game. The player with the most votes gets lynched, so no-lynch isn't really a danger unless people actually vote no-lynch.

[Cavane]

Five yard penalty to PWQ for Delay of Game.

[Cavane]

Wow, that sends me back. The guy who taught me MTG when I was, like, 9 was a big Tefari fan. Anyway...

Not sure what Kison was doing to draw the kill like that. I was thinking of looking at him and Aelyn closely today for their lurking through the deadline, but there went one of those theories.

Is TSQ going to be replaced? Or a more apt question: Is he really gone?

In the meantime: Quag, if AniX had been lynched yesterday, who would be the play today, and why?

[Cavane]

First Quag, then Yama, now you? What's the case?

[Cavane]

Aelyn, Lowell, Quag, and Dean haven't posted yet. Could we prod them please, Mod?

[Cavane]

Quag: Are you refusing to answer my earlier question, or did you not notice it? Just in case, here it is again:

If AniX had been killed Yesterday, who would be the play Today?

Also, I don't really care for all the rolefishing going on. It's way too early to be outing roles like this. I'm actually still not sure why AniX volunteered the infomation he did. In that vein,

FoS: Yama, Lowell

. No FoS on AniX as of yet, because I don't see any good scum strategy in implying they have a night choice.

[Cavane]

I have no idea what's going on either, but I agree with Dean that there's too much talking about roles right now. I think we need to change gears, because this is helping scum more than us.

[Cavane]

Don't claim a role, but did anyone target me, and get blocked?

That's impossible to answer without claiming a role, since anyone who could have targeted you would... HAVE A ROLE. Stop trying to figure out what the setup is. As I said before, all this speculation and rolehinting is probably helping scum more than us.

Who's Jackie?[/sarcasm]

[Cavane]

Oh, come on. Don't make personal attacks and insinuations about my intelligence because you refuse to comply with a repeated request from the Mod. If you don't want to play, fine, but don't act the victim* here. You've made it a point to ignore all requests to use forum names in this game, and it's pretty obvious to me that you've done it solely to piss off people like Yama and I.

*I'm well aware you've been recently victimized by other people in another venue. That, however, does not give you liscense to say what you like about people who have nothing to do with that situation.

[Cavane]

What? Why are those the only two options? This game is making no sense. Either that, or a lot of people know a lot of things that I don't.

[Cavane]

This is exactly why all the role discussion was a bad idea. We know next to nothing, and now everyone's confused and unsure of what to do. I'm tired of this stagnancy.

Vote: Quagmire

. We need a bandwagon.

[Cavane]

You haven't commited to anything at all this game

That's very amusing coming from you. Have you looked at your own Day 1 posts?

[Cavane]

Prod on Aelyn, please. Is TSQ getting replaced?

[Cavane]

Im still looking at Dean and Yama. Either Yama really set a trap and got Dean, or Yama didnt set a trap, but realized his reasoning was crap, so hopped out and said to Dean, "haha! I got you!"

Usually I'd run with the second one, but since Yama has a bit of a history with traps in this game, I'm kinda inclined to believe him.

However, I will also caution him. Keep this up, and everyone is going to be second-guessing everything you say.

[Cavane]

ALSO, the fact that he's totally ignored this means he's even moreso a scumbag.

That's some of the biggest craplogic I've seen this game.

1) If I defend myself against every attack, you claim I'm being overdefensive and must be getting nervous under pressure.

2) This is the first time I've looked at this game since you voted me. I haven't ignored it.

3) Even so, I have nothing to say in response, because your attack has no substance. It reminds me of a certain other attack you've been pushing this entire game.

[Cavane]

Plus the game was stalling. A bandwaggon normally helps that.

Well, I tried. Didn't seem to work, except to earn me some OMGUS.

[Cavane]

Scumhunting > Deducing the setup.

The Quag wagon failed to get anything going other than actually getting him to vote someone other than AniX. (Of which I am personally very proud.) Therefore, I will

Unvote Quagmire

and reconsider my position, since the replacement is among us. I'm thinking about renewing my case on Dean. Between the things I pointed out Yesterday and Yama's trap, I'm not feeling good about him.

[Cavane]

What are you talking about? I feel much safer? One person was voting me for OMGUS and craplogic. I didn't feel threatened at all, and I don't feel anymore threatened with two of you. Quag's accusation of me not doing useful scumhunting is laughable, and my case against Dean extends to way more than Yama's trap, whether you think it was valid or not.

And Ecto, that was a joke.

[Cavane]

No, it was a statement that now that you're here, I feel I can get back into the game. We were basically waiting on a replacement to show up. Now that we have one, we can move forward. I really don't see how you translated what I said into me being confident, yet paranoid. (?) Anyway, yes I am relieved that you are here. It means the game can get moving again, hopefully.

[Cavane]

by the way, cavane, i had no idea that you were voting for me when i've posted. there is no omgus in my vote.

I'm gonna call BS on that.

This is exactly why all the role discussion was a bad idea. We know next to nothing, and now everyone's confused and unsure of what to do. I'm tired of this stagnancy.

Vote: Quagmire

. We need a bandwagon.

I now know who my second suspect is right behind AniX. You haven't commited to anything at all this game -- only "thinking out loud" logic BS -- and when you're using actual logic, it's all been spouted already by other people in a conspicuous attempt to join the most attractive bandwagon. I note that before me, your only two votes have been for Yamahako and DeanWinchester -- both whom, at the time, had the third vote placed upon them. Every single one of your votes so far has been a vote that has placed someone as the leading vote-getter. This does not bode well for our townsmanship, methinks.

However, Yama, you still need to explain to me (and everyone else, for that matter) why I'm either a godfather or SK.

You quoted me here in this post shortly before voting me. Are you asking us to believe that you quoted a post that you hadn't read? Or that you read the post, yet managed to miss the bold vote? It's not as if the post were very long.

And Dean. You are so scummy after that post that I would vote you right here. If anyone doesn't remember my D1 case against him, Post 506 basically sums it up. However, me going after Quag for his OMGUS kind of ties my hands in that regard. I can only hope some of the more sensible players get back soon.

[Cavane]

Mod

: Votecount and prods on AniX, Lowell, Aelyn, please.

[Cavane]

The people I mentioned in my last post.

[Cavane]

Is this game mod abandoned?

[Cavane]

That's odd, since your stated reasons for voting me are completely different. However, they do have one thing in common. They're both crap. One is based on a weak and circumstantial voting pattern from D1. The other is based on a total misinterpretation of something I said.

At least the game is moving again, though.

[Cavane]

And you get to decide who is helpfull and who is not?

Unvote, Vote Cavane

Quag is right, he is scum.

That's hilarious. Seriously. There's no "deciding" whether you've been helpful or not, CPE. You haven't been. There's no way you could argue that you have. And why that translates into a vote for me, I'll never know. Unless you explain yourself, which with your track record this game, I rather doubt.

[Cavane]

Whoa, where'd you come from?

Regardless, it's nice to have some logic in the game again.

[Cavane]

I haven't been lurking, I've simply said about all I can about the cases on me.

[Cavane]

I'm not sure what else I can do. Pretty much all the active players have done is present cases on me. I could vote one of them, but I don't believe in OMGUS, and I don't think any of them are scummy. No one's responded to my defense, either.

[Cavane]

Deadline is still a week, off, but eh.

Vote Dean

No more split.

I'm sure Quag will point at me jumping on a bandwagon, and trying to save my own skin (which, to an extent, is true I'll admit.)

However, I've been after Dean for quite some time now, and the way he lurks through pressure put on him is disturbing, to say the least.

[Cavane]

Uh, no. I'm not going to claim when I'm not in imminent lynching danger. It's pointless, and for you to suggest it is rather anti-town. If anyone claims, it should be Dean.

And I hope Lowell was joking.

[Cavane]

I want to lynch Dean, but not without at least giving him a chance to claim. I

vote: Replace

.

[Cavane]

Um, what? Yama, why does Dean getting replaced = I become scummier? I want to lynch him, too but not without a claim.

[Cavane]

I don't think my defense has been half-hearted. I just don't feel like there's anything else I can do. I've answered each point against me. No one's responded to m defense. Everyone except Quag left their vote and lurked. I have no way of defending myself against Yama, since his case is that I'm his 3rd scummiest, and he wants to end the day.

[Cavane]

Mod

: While I really don't like to lynch without a claim, this game will die without some activity. If a replacement hasn't stepped up in the next few days, please consider my vote changed to

Lynch

.