Mini 1696: SPACE DANDY MAFIA, GAME OVER

[PokerFace]

Given the nature of this game and the show, I'm curious as to whether 4th wall breaks do anything

Vote: Varsoon

[PokerFace]

Hey PF

The semi unretirement continues. Probably an unwise choice.

When I saw the theme of this game it reminded me of Cowboy Bebop, and then was I saw you sign up I just

had

to join!

Glad i am not the only one to come out of retirement for this. The show is alot like cowboy bebop. Its made by same studio, bones. And I think they may be in the same universe as wulongs are money in space dandy. If they are in the same universe, its clear Space Dandy is much further in the future compared to bebop. I liked Space Dandy a lot. Rather surprised some people signed up without seeing it. You guys better watch the links Varsoon posted and catch up with the rest of us

They are trying to get the contracts signed for a 3rd season last I heard, but they don't have them all written or signed yet. I hope it happens. I heard main reason the rights have not been signed yet is the timing. The first 2 seasons did something real special with their air dates. The show debuted in American and Japan on practically the same day. It was a joint effort with the studios in each country to get things dubbed and on air on practically the same day give or take time zones

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_S ... y_episodes

They can't decide if they want to do a 3rd season and if they do it will it have the same timing standards? I imagine organizing the entire thing again could be trouble

Alright enough with the small talk. Unless I read something wrong Yukari self voted. So I will go with that flow

Vote: yukari

The show's director/creator, Shinichiro Watanabe, is also the creator of Cowboy Bebop. Each episode had different storyboarders and animation directors, with each alien designed by different artists. It's good stuff. I suggest watching it.

[PokerFace]

@yukari,

unless I missed someone I believe I have the oldest join date, July 2007. So yes I am very experienced though I have gone on quite few temporary retirements/breaks from playing. So its possible someone here has played more than I and or got more expierence than I due to many mafia sites out there. out played I've moderated and played in a few bastard setups. I voted varsson because this is bastard and they do break the forth wall in the show. I really wanted some really cool narrator flavored actions out of varsoon but looks like that's not happening right now. Can you tell me why you self voted? Do you find yourself scummy? How new to mafiascum and or bastard games are you?

@skulldug

, him asking how many scum seemed odd to me, but I'm not sure if that one post makes him scum or not. It really depends on how experienced he is with mafia and bastard games

@bp,

I think your vote count is right. If its wrong I'd appreciate someone letting us know since Varsoon does not appear to be posting them inside top posts like his rules state. I am guessing Varsoon is thinking too much about the booty or that cat on his head (which I first thought was a Pompadour as I did not read varsoon mafia before this game), that cat has stolen varsoon's keyboard

@oversoul,

I think everyone that has seen the show sent in lists. People that have not seen it probably sent in nothing. Thus Varsoon didn't get lists from everyone so I don't think it would have been fair for him to use the lists to distribute roles. Your posts read as intent to fish out who likes what character and who might have been lucky enough to get what's on their lists. You said you got your third while some people have posted they got their first. Your jealousy disturbs me. Aren't you the kind of player that prefers being town? Did you roll scum and feel bad about it?

[PokerFace]

I have not played with tammy or mara before that I can recall. Which one of you is proper and which one is brash? I think I can tell when each head is talking but I don't know which name belongs to which head in the hydra

Whats the reason for the wagon on bp? I don't think I saw it in my readings

[PokerFace]

Hero aligned as in town or hero as in royal mafia

not sure how i missed that other stuff earlier. I really should not post while i am at work.

Have your non-newbies been mini games with 11-13 players?

How many scum are you expecting to be in this game?

what does cpl stand for?

[PokerFace]

P

K

, do you mean me? My questions weren't random and I have already made questions towards others about things I am trying to figure out

did you think they were random? Or am I not P

K

?

I take it mara is the brash and tammy is the proper given the recent posts

edit: I got ninja'd so bad just now

[PokerFace]

royal mafia is a type of mafia that has a role named hero. hero is a role that lynches people that lynch them in royal mafia. Yukari voted himself after all. You can see why I asked him that now and why that question was not random

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... fia_Setups
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Hero

I'll catch up on the other stuff momentarily. I really should not be posting and reading while at work

[PokerFace]

I asked for clarification. I know heroes of this story is the town alignment. I wanted yukari to clarify what they meant as they had previously self voted and self voting is something a royal mafia hero role would do.

Hero aligned as in town or hero as in royal mafia

Yukari never said why they self voted and I was trying to figure out why. I wanted to know if they were just claiming to be town or if they were claiming to lynch people that were trying to lynch yukari. He did say "come at me bro" earlier after all

[PokerFace]

@varsoon and others

Something appears wrong with my home computer. Not sure what at the moment. Gonna try to fix it asap or buy the new part to replace what is broken. Until then it appears my work computers are gonna be my main means of reaching the site. So consider me on limited access for the time being. I'll let you know when I got the issue solved or when I should have it solved once I figure out what went wrong.

Will catch up on things here as soon as I can

[PokerFace]

gonna unvote until i am caught up and figured out what is what

Unvote

[PokerFace]

I unvote earlier not knowing when I'd be able to catch up but I was able to take my work laptop home for the weekend so i can catch up now.

I think you're stretching far to assume that I am jealous. Where in my posts do you think that I am jealous? Please provide quotes.
I love my role. I contemplated not announcing the execute and pulling a fast one to lynch someone who (inevitably) will annoy me. But, c'est la vie.

Yes. I do prefer being town.
No, I did not roll scum.

You claimed you got third choice. Some people such as heartless and skulldug said they got their first. You asked more questions of people related to their lists and then people got up in arms. Your continued persistence and the logic that first choice would be better than third made me consider you were jelious. Like you wished you got your first choice. Getting first choice is better than getting third choice and as you like being town I would expect your first choice to be a likely good show character and town character. And a later choice on your list to not be as good or as town. Thats what I was getting at

How did you miss that and instead assume an antiquated setup?

I still cannot justify the mind loops he needed to pass in order to say Royal Mafia and not Heroes of the Story.

I didn't miss the obvious one and assume the royal one. I asked if he was hero as in town first or hero as in royal mafia second. And I don't consider it antiquated since I moderated and played in a total of 5 royal mafia games over marathon weekend which was last weekend on this site. I had alot of fun last marathon weekend. Probably too much fun

Back in my day there were a few players, notably Korlash and Ultima Avalon, that self voted day one in games. I thought that kind of intentional bad play fad was dead. Never seen it actually used in a way that successfully caught scum. Yukari said he used Slayer's Gambit. I don't entirely believe that. He didn't really wagon or try to mount a case on someone while playing poorly. He just sort of shifted gears like he was trying to avoid a previous subject. And he did that gear shift right after his ability claim

@yukari,

will everyone know when you have used your "make someone take 1 less vote" ability? Do we get a heads up, do all vote counts reset or can you in a way instant lynch someone like oversoul is claiming. Why would a town role have this kind of ability?

zakk's vote on kling had good meaning behind it
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p7038756
Klings vote on zakk
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p7040845
showed alot of anger almost adhomium. Does kling normally play that way? I want to vote kling but honestly don't know what vote count is at so Ill wait.

Changing vote after talking to neighbor a bit.

VOTE: BP

I don't think he is scum, ill analyze him more later. Going to give more reads on people later. Right now I am off to bed.

If you've been suspicious of DQ this whole time, why did talking with them prompt you to vote someone you weren't scumreading?

I also don't like this as it doesn't make sense with his reads
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p7042829
fire bringer was still voting bp when he made that reads post too.

Also theres a chance we could both be Mafia. O_o

Uhm wouldn't you know if you are mafia or not already? How would you not know what you are? I have seen scum needing to find their partners in bastard games before and if fire is considering he needs to do that then that would make fire scum

in varsoons recent vote count klingon is near lynch, I think still at L-1. Firebringer isn't so I'll vote him since day 1 does not need to end right now

VOTE: firebringer

[PokerFace]

"Speaking of aroused, I'm pretty hungry."

-Meow

VOTECOUNT 1.07

Klingoncelt (5):

zakk, Drama Queens, Skullduggery, Alchemist21, Oversoul

Pokerface (3):

Heartless, Xtoxm, Elbirn

Firebringer (1):

Pokerface

zakk (1):

Klingoncelt

Firebringer (1):

Yukari

Xtoxm (1):

Firebringer

Not Voting (1):

BP

With 13 Alive, it takes 7 to Lynch.
Deadline

: (expired on 2015-07-21 19:55:00)

Uhm varsoon its still not right. See underlined^

Thanks! New rule for myself: No doing Votecounts while distracted/tired.

Yes his reads doesn't make sense, but why is it scummy?

He voted bp, who he town read, because his neighbor was scum reading bp. And fire bringer was scum reading his neighbor. Why would anyone listen to someone they precised as scum to vote someone they perceived as town? Either fire's opinions are not honest and he is just doing what others tell him to do. And that is scummy.

Kling said she was vanilla town, but did not give character/flavor info. Please claim character/flavor info.

I have never been a fan of vanilla claims in any game especially one that is suppose to be a bastard game, so I am willing to hammer. What else do you guys want to talk about?

[PokerFace]

@heartless

who are you quoting in each quote in 484?

[PokerFace]

@heartless

who are you quoting in each quote in 484?

forget i posted that. I didn't realize the spolier led the post all that was from. please ignore

[PokerFace]

Computer update. Graphics card dead. New one being shipped. Hope to have it received and installed by this weekend. Until then I'll try to take home my work laptop some nights

I have never been a fan of vanilla claims in any game especially one that is suppose to be a bastard game

oh yeah?

why's that?

Vanilla is the easiest thing to fake claim of all time. It requires 0 imagination and originality. Bastard games are and should be chalk full of imagination and originality. Its an easy claim to make when you are flustered and can't think because a big wagon is on you

There's no good reason to unvote someone that claims vanilla. If the player is scum, you unvoting them just let them get away. If the player is town, then scum will never night kill them. Scum will want them around as lynch bait for later in the game. Telling the difference between a scum vanilla claimer and a town vanilla claimer is hard for these reasons.

Claiming vanilla as vanilla town also gives away setup info to scum. Scum now knows you are not a power role and not worth killing. It has been brought up in Mafia Discussion on this site before that claiming vanilla as vanilla hurts the town in that regard. And the more protown decision may be to refuse to claim at all as vanilla town and get lynched. I can't find the exact MD thread at the moment. I'll try looking for it shortly. I believe TheFonz created the thread quite sometime ago.

I felt like voting for the lot of you all at once. But you, PokerFace, were highly contradictory. Because it seemed as if Firebird was your strongest scumread.

Check 381, I found them both scummy and didn't want to vote kling as I thought that would be the hammer

Kling needs to flavor claim "clearly". I swear I have heard her call players honey before in the RITP game I moderated and that's what i thought she was doing while addressing oversoul in 509. Kling are you really claiming Honey?

[PokerFace]

RITP stands for Rebels in the Palace

Its a game i ran that had kling in it. No idea what news reporter thing you are talking about. Still searching for that md thread i mentioned

[PokerFace]

I thought I voted kling in one of my last two posts. Guess I got pre-ocupied looking for links to old threads instead. Thought people were unvoting solely for the vanilla claim and kinda got on a high horse there with some old views. Perhaps an old man should retire or at least try to learn better ways to scum hunt and stay with the times.

@kling,

who besides zakk do you think is scum and why?

@People on my wagon,

why exactly are you there? Some of you voted/wagoned without giving a lot of details and I want to know if you guys are genuine

[PokerFace]

PTs can be shared if every member of the PTs agrees to share them. Otherwise, I will only be making the dead thread public, where you can see Firebringer and me talk design for days.

You mean you talked setup with me not firebringer, he never died. I already gave in the dead thread pretty much all my thoughts on the game. I was bothered I did not get a chance to fight with Dramas quick hammer, but with so many investigators at the town's disposal I would have gotten caught and lynched day 2 at worst, day 3 at best. And that's assuming i used my day skill

All and all Scum had the most powerful role in Xtoxm, most of its power all in one place. Town had more power overall spread out over many places, Dandy, QT, Scarlet, and Honey were all very powerful. Adjustments I gave here would have made game more balanced. I still lean towards town having the edge given how confirmable most of their roles were and with so many of them being main characters with obvious alignments. There were also alot of investigation and protection roles in this game. Too much inspection and night protection everywhere. I am really surprised scum did not get gamed as the odds for it happening with this setup were HUGE.

I am fine with our scum Private topic going public. Varsoon disabled my access to it after day 1 so I would really like to see it again even if Xtoxm wants it private

[PokerFace]

Setup in a nutshell

5 lynch modifiers = xtoxm, Drama, zakk, yukari, oversoul (Dram's shot is now gone, zak is unlikly to use his shot. Over or yukari should have been the kill last night)

2 super powerful roles = Elib, Xtoxm

6 roles with investigations = Me, alchemist, kling, Elibirn, QT (kinda), heartless

8 Roles with some kind of kill protection = Zakk, Me, alchemist, kling (kinda), Elibirn, QT, firebringer, Drama

2 roles that can kill = Elibirn, QT, scum

neighborizor with hidden win condition (I really wish I had this role as I coined the term neighbors) = Drama/Knuckles

neighborhood that has no scum = aloha

neighborhood that has 1 scum = jaicrow

Scum that gets to be in jaicrow neighbors hood and investigation immunity while me and xtoxm live = Firebringer

Scum that gets protection from all non kill night actions including investigations = Xtoxm

Scum with 1-shot protection from all actions including kills and has power to end day early = Me

[PokerFace]

the crappy scum fake claims are here

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p7004537

They are crappy because who all is an important character that is likly to be town?
Dandy, Dandy, scarlet, Meowth, QT, Honey (No one here was scum)

Who all are unimportant characters that only appeared in 1 episode?
L'DELISE , Adellie, FERDINAND, Prince, Jravolta (2/5 were scum)

Border line scummy show characters:
BEA, Johnny (1/2) was scum

Massclaim POE to victory very possible given how many investigators and day killers can rinse through the 7 unconfirmed vs the 6 confirmed

[PokerFace]

ebwop delete the last one please varsoon

my suggestions to make this game less swingy but still balanced

Admiral Perry should have only gained votes when town was lynched.
Scum win condition should have been less ambiguous (Read the scum PT and you'll see what i am getting at here)
Narrator should have been a scum safe claim (Scum claims were minor characters or obv scum characters. They needed at least one important character)

Firebringer should have been given the option to use the safe claim:
http://space-dandy.wikia.com/wiki/Professor_Duran
(More than one episode character that did some good helping main characters and fits the jaicrow theme)

Chameleonian should not also be narrator (Get rid of tree stump skills. Narrator and chamelion can be two different people despite show lore)
Johnny's lynch protection move should not grant night kill immunity to everyone in jaicrow empire
Meowth's flavor copping should be very ambigous and not out any scum (His rumors on rare aliens were also ambiguous in the show)
Dandy should not be able to reuse his inspect and protect skills
(Scarlet was a cop that could catch all the scum. And dandy could have protected her all game outside being blocked by Gel or Jravolta).

To anyone that says scum/Xtoxm's role was too powerful look at the bad safe claims. Consider that meowth could have outed me despite my already poor safe claim. And my safe claim was best we had. Consider that Town had 1 cop in scarlet that no scum was immune to. Town had a tracker that could track anyone during any night. You could follow them tonight or any night in the past. Dandy was also a cop and his skills could have protected scarlet and honey. He could also kill people and confirm scarlet and honey as town. Dandy could have confirmed himself as dandy by using two day kills day 1 (One would work on day one) And bp could have confirmed himself by using his two day kills (None would have worked). Town had a direct counter to xtoxm and Gel's best abilities in QT. Scarlet could catch Bea and Admiral Perry. All 4 investigators should feasibly work on Gel

[PokerFace]

ebwop

Perhaps should have massclaimed sooner?

No you did it at the right time. My day skill could have ended any day early which would have ruined mass claim if you did it day 1. Doing it after I was dead and after meowth was dead and useless (He could only out my safe claim), was the perfect time

Mass flavor claim day 2 should have cleared: Dandy, Dandy2, Scarlet, Honey, QT

That would have left: Bea, Johnny, Fredinand(xtoxm), Prince, Jravolta, Adelie

Dandy kills Bea and confirms who is dandy and who is dandy2.

Scarlet investigates one of the remaining 5. You lynch one of the 4. Dandy checks Adelie and gets his investigation back. We have 2 unconfirmeds left.
If Honey targets NOT xtoxm then you have only 1 unconfirmed left. If she targets Xtoxm then you have 2 unconfirmeds as xtoxm would give no result
Scarlet checks 1-2 confirmeds left. You lynch other GG Town WIN!

And during that night Dandy protects scarlet. Scarlet protects QT and Honey. Honey redirects everything from dandy2 to herself
Dandy, Dandy2, Scarlet, Honey, and QT are all unkillable during that night! Scum can't really kill anyone to stop that plan!

[PokerFace]

i think i'd be over it already if we lost in 5p lylo. but the random day 3 / 9 player lylo just gets me. no offense to xtoxm and i know i'm being a sore loser, but i don't think i'm out of line by saying scum didn't rock this game by any means. and if you were going to let scum have these dominating DAY POWERS like they had to make mislynches easier, town needed investigatives that got DEFINITIVE innos and guilties or active ways to stop kills OR more nightkill potential themselves.

QT had a direct counters to Perry super hammer and Gel's day skip skill. Read QT's role and you will see what I mean. He could revenge kill Perry and be auto protected when there was no lynch due to my day skill

Dandy was unkillable. Captain Johnny could make his entire neghborhood unkillable for one night

I previously outlined how Scarlet, Honey, Dandy, and QT could effectivly create a team of 5 players that could not be killed. Only way it could have been stopped would be via my day end skill or my jail keep and both of those actions need to be done before the town's actions. My jail keep was delayed and had to be on whoever i previously tracked. I can't jailkeep someone i fail to track first.

Also my day skip skill (that could have stopped dandy's telegraphed powers) was 1 time use and it did NOT increase the power of Gel's hammer as it forced no lynches and lynches were needed for the hammer to expand

Scarlet's role could catch all the scum as her skill was a day skill. Perry was not immune to it. Only Bea could have survived it and thats only if Gel and Perry were still alive. If they were dead Bea couldn't survive it either

So yes did have alot of counters but they were not used

[PokerFace]

Scum didn't know my alignment.

Only toxin and PF knew each other.

Yay our group not truly having 3 members that could chat together kinda messed with mine and xtoxm's heads alot. We worried about sk's and the possibility of a jaicrow faction too much

[PokerFace]

Scum didn't know my alignment.

Only toxin and PF knew each other.

Yay our group not truly having 3 members that could chat together kinda messed with mine and xtoxm's heads alot. We worried about sk's and the possibility of a jaicrow faction too much

Sorry we tried to get you lynched day one fire. We didn't know you were with us. Definitely thought you were against us

[PokerFace]

I am kinda busy at the moment so no new games for me. Call me when Space Dandy 2 happens though

[PokerFace]

Yeah, I was shocked when PF flipped scum. And thought my best bet was to actually hunt scum.

Yay elibrn and a few others were shocked i was scum too. I play scum and town very similarly.

I absolutely knew the town was "the heroes of this story". First game post said "heroes of this story". My safe claim said heroes of this story. So that case was bull. I even said hero as in town first and then said hero as in royal mafia second. If you want to argue I play and mod royal mafia too much thats fine, I did play 5 games of it just before joining this game. BUT playing too much royal mafia doesn't make anyone scum

The only scummy thing I did was continually going after kling in a way that came off policy lynch like. I never intended it to look like a policy lynch. I intended to say "claiming vanilla was useless and vanillas are useless. You unvote and you are dumb." I didn't mean to say "claiming vanilla hurts the town. Kling need to die for hurting town." I minced words poorly there and my heart was not fully in her lynch as I felt sorry for her and her recent family problems. I hope your son recovers fully. BUT I suppose i was right to not believe kling was vanilla. Seriously this new lie as town fad that many players are doing needs to stop. PEOPLE SHOULDN'T LIE AS TOWN EVER and I will gladly vidge or lynch town liars. Kill all liars is one policy lynch I do support!

[PokerFace]

ebwop
Yukari said bring it! That's what people do when they alude to being supersaint, pgo, or hero. Its what I do when I am those roles. If I wanted to role fish i would have done something more like asked everyone what they wrote in their character list to Varsoon. Hearltess got first pick, as did skulldug. And yes I got my first pick too

Yes, I discussed royal mafia in MD recently and do play it too much. I considered bringing up the md discussion in our game like you mentioned but felt it walked the line of "Don't discuss on going games outside of on going games" I didn't want our discussion to somehow evolve into that so I avoided it. it probably wouldn't have evolved into that since no one mentioned our game in MD but I didn't want someone to do that. Or someone to accuse me of setting up an alibi via MD. So i avoided that

As I stated I never believed kling was vanilla. I felt she could be scum but didn't have my heart fully into lynching her because i felt bad for the situation she was having with her son. Everyone I tried to lynch, I tried to lynch them because i thought they were scum in another faction. Yes, I thought yukari, fire, and kling were scum. Xtoxm and myself were paranoid since there were only two of us. We legit tried to scumhunt during this game as a result. Read our private topic

[PokerFace]

I don't know about the whole lying as town thing. I think lying as town can be an effective tool.
For instance, it's day 1 and someone asks you to claim and you're a cop.
Do you lie?

if you are L-1, tell truth to avoid death. If there is no case on you, don't claim and lynch the rolefisher

It's day 4 and you've got a scum guilty on a player BUT you think there may be another scum in the setup. You're pressed to give reasons why you're pushing the one scum so adamantly.
Do you lie?

No. Tell truth and see if anyone previously defending that guy is anxious to bus them now that you have come forward with the guilty

It's day 3 and you're a town rolecop and/or informed (like an unclaimed miller?). You see the actual cop soft/crumb a guilty on a player. You could claim cop with a guilty, get that scum lynched, and catch a kill that'll save the real cop's hide.
Do you lie?

No. You scumhunt and find a legit way (that does not involve the guilty) to lead a huge wagon on that guy and get them lynched. This will also make you eat a bullet

It's 3p LYLO and you know for sure the other guy is scum. You'd have an easier time building a case on him if you lied about how scummy he was to appeal to the other town's sensibilities. You need to do this to win the game, because this other town does not jive with your style of play.
Do you lie?

If they really don't jive with your playstyle they will lynch you even if you lie especially when you don't have any breadcrumbs from previous days

I think there are lies that are effective and can move the game forward. I think people like to call strategic lying 'gambits' sometimes. I also agree--lying poorly as town and without great effect is anti-town. However, discerning that it's coming from a town player is helpful in sorting town/scum regardless.

I don't know if all town should tell the truth. If upheld, it would be interesting for sure, and maybe scum would be a bit easier to spot because they have to lie by nature of their alignment. However, I don't know if that perceived benefit is worth the definite benefit that proper lying as town could do.

[PokerFace]

I don't rely on policy lynching. And I do it far less than scumhunting. I legit scumhunt and thought fire, yukari, and kling were scum in another faction in this game.

If i have a scum read on someone i will always lynch or vidge them first. When I don't have any scum reads, I will vidge/lynch lurkers and liars all day everyday. Especially on night 0!

[PokerFace]

Is someone here a good artist? I'm at work so I can't do it right now, but I so want to take my avatar, put a dosequis bottle in my hand instead of a cane (or replace the falling playing cards with dosequis), and write the following:

I don't always roll vidge, but when I do, I prefer to kill on night 0!