Mini 1686: Give Me A Clue! Mafia (Game Over)

[DrDolittle]

easy VOTE: mala

[DrDolittle]

pls VOTE: mathdino

[DrDolittle]

Everyone switching from mala to mathdino is scum.

im not scum

[DrDolittle]

but Tier is giving me really bad vibes with the "everyone who does [x] is scum".

VOTE: TierShift

Anyway for what it's worth I doubt TS would blatantly lie as scum about whether his first statement was sarcastic; I'd expect more of a 'no lying' approach.

@Tiershift:

Why did you make the statement? Reaction test or just early game messing around?

UNVOTE: TS seeing as my reason for voting him no longer exists though.

don't like this. transition way too fast -> really bad vibes do not disappear after someone else goes "lol jk"

[DrDolittle]

Does Dolittle have a rep for being good as Town?

Yeah. Evidence can be found in the many games with town dolittle day 1 lynches.

[DrDolittle]

Guille I give you A+ for reading

[DrDolittle]

his 59 is pinging for me.

pinging in quality you mean

[DrDolittle]

UNVOTE: mala

This game is kind of quiet. I'm liking Alchemist and Farside so far, although her Guille read seems a bit safe. Guille's repeated posting to get a few thoughts across didn't help, though, but I liked his recent questions - post 79 would've been better with a vote, though.

DrDolittle's posts aren't really full of any content, which is strange and his 59 is pinging for me.

I think I need to meta read Math at the moment, 'coz I'm getting mixed messages from the slot. His OMGUS vote is bad.

@Far, has your read on guille changed any?

@Math, talk to me about numberQ?

@Everyone, thoughts on Riabli/DrDolittle? I'm getting scummy vibes off both.


VOTE: Riabli

Why is Riabli scummy. I just went back and saw that he had in total 4 posts, all of them with no substance, and none of them quite recent. Is he honestly your strongest scum read that you would vote for him? Cause it seems that he's purty null, and you're just throwing the vote there cause its cheap and easy

[DrDolittle]

Re DrDo and Riabi:

I hated 36 and 59 - 'I'm not scum' is just unnecessary and 59 seems like a forced reason to justify his previous vote on math. Also, a row of 5 posts with less than 50 words total doesn't scream 'I'm engaging and trying to solve this game'. This might be a style thing, though.


Riabi: both of their page 3 posts read fake to me: 'Actually...The truth is...'. Also, he says he asks lots of questions to get answers, and before this point

and also after

I haven't seen those questions. That suggests he isn't playing to his town strengths.

Re: DrD - my vote on math was supposed to be humorous. Then it turned semi serious at 59. You can check my playstyle by a simple search.
Re: Riabi - your accusation seems like a forced reason to justify your previous vote on Riabi.
Most accusation are simply a reflection of the insecurity of oneself.
VOTE: YGS

[DrDolittle]

pls VOTE: mathdino

I don't get this vote.

This vote is pretty clear - i don't see why there is so much controversy. Mala was at L-2. She had not done anything. I was removing pressure on this too early wagon, and pushing a bit on the person who put her there.

Dr, can you explain why our vote on Riabi is 'cheap and easy' and Farside's vote on Guille is not? (I agree with Farside's vote on Guille, this is from Dr's perspective)

Your vote on Riabi is easy because your vote doesn't have much reason ; its cheap because you can vote him because Riabi is a relatively new player that you can pressure
These might be buzz words, but I think in this case, fits well.

It's funny because the same 3 people (Farside, Dr and yourself) suspected us on page 3 and then it all died down until the very same three people have come back expressing a dislike for our slot on this page. Something strange is going on there. I think Farside seems the most genuine about our slot, I don't even understand why Dr is scum reading us and Q is quite blatantly sheeping.

huh? i didn't even you you guys existed on page 3

[DrDolittle]

trap the slot into looking scummy

this is brilliant.

[DrDolittle]

trap the slot into looking scummy

this is brilliant.

DrD, why?

-bella

because the logic is clearly not brilliant. If pointing out and voting for a scummy concept is trapping a certain slot into looking scummy, then we might as well as all stop playing mafia and go to Town of Salem.
also, the fact that he says im scummy for emulating what you said about me "forced reason to justify a previous vote" on math is pretty silly - especially since i explained the vote earlier.

i think i would explore an alchemist-scum idea further - since that push on me, as well as his argument with farside seems out of place, but I really like the wagon on you.

[DrDolittle]

[quote=farside]riabi reads town to me.[/quote]
Why? Riabi posted one single set of reads all game, a not particularly insightful one at that. How are you so certain that he is town?

[quote=farside]Dino, mala and guille are people I'm leaning on more as scum. All are underwelming to me so far. [/quote]
These are basically the less active folks. Are they all your scum reads? Have you found nothing of value in the past n pages?

[quote=farside]I will say between you and ygs I may think about alch[/quote]
What does this even mean? I thought ygs are alch are your town reads.

[DrDolittle]

i'm pretty sure ricastle is town. I'm also down to have a VOTE: alchemist wagon going

[DrDolittle]

YO ALCH YOUR CASE IS SHITTY THERE IS NOTHING TO REFUTE ANYONE WITH HALF A BRAIN REALIZES THAT ITS BOLLOCKS AND DOESNT MAKE ANY SENSE. IM JUST DECIDIGN WHEATHER YOU ARE SCUM OR YOU GOT A LOBOTOMY SOME TIME IN YOUR LIFE
TQVM

[DrDolittle]

not really i dont get frustrated by ____. i just nod and move along.

fill inyor own blank cause i like this game

[DrDolittle]

YGS is so scum that it hurts. Every single argument of thiers is just a contortion of bad logic and/or forced responses. I'm much more comfortable in getting scum out of them VOTE: YGS

[DrDolittle]

Not liking Mala.

This. [\quote]
I don't know about Mala, but the only thing that si going on with her is nothing. And that is a null tell. There are all around so many people – such as farside and yourself that is scum, that you would go onto a complete lurker, is bad.

To paraphrase, your Riabi vote was "cheap and easy", and it's hard to believe he was honestly your strongest scum read. Also, in post 161 he mentioned how you seemed to be retroactively justifying your Riabi vote. Though I will admit I didn't notice on my first read through when you pointed out him doing the same thing with his Math vote.

Why is it hard to believe he was our strongest scum read? Other than Far vs Alch's pointless discussion, there wasn't a whole lot of anything going on. Is there a reason why you seem to have a problem with us retroactively justifying a vote (we weren't) but don't have a problem with Riabi doing the exact same thing?
[\quote]
This is just false. Far x Alch's discussion occurs mostly after your vote. While before that vote, there is guille's weird voting on math with me, math's flipidy flopidy etc. Saying that nothing is false. This 1-4 page may have had the most going on of all games that I played.
I have no problem with you retroactively justifying a vote. It's just that the justification is scum motivated.

I was removing pressure on this too early wagon, and pushing a bit on the person who put her there.

Why would you remove pressure from a wagon on someone whose alignment should be unknown to you?[\quote]
Because the VC is fucking L-2 and its page 3.

Your vote on Riabi is easy because your vote doesn't have much reason ; its cheap because you can vote him because Riabi is a relatively new player that you can pressure
These might be buzz words, but I think in this case, fits well.

Really? We didn't have much reason for a vote on page 4, well shit, I guess we must be scum then.

You're right, they are buzzwords. I'm going after an easier target soon though so you can rehash this argument then if you like. [\quote]
Well shit, yeah you are scum leaning. Now your shit shows that you are full scum.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding something here, but why would you think suspicion on your slot would be talked about when those people suspecting you weren't around? The only 1 of the three who's had a serious presence in that page span is Farside.

It's the timing. They all seem to come out of the woodwork together. Scum are using this as an opportunity to blend in and push the wagon that's flavour
of the day. I'm trying to work out who it is.[\quote]
Maybe I'm misunderstanding something here, but I never knew that pushing a scummy slot has to be done by people with serious presences.

So, first you don't like that I'm not providing any content, then you say I'm not interacting with other players when you quoted me doing just that in the the post immediately prior... How is it that the reasoning for your read can change so fast?

VOTE: YGS

Correct, I didn't like that you were providing no content.

It's cute that you think posting a reads-list counts as interacting with other players. You should go google what interaction means and then come back to me on this one. Posting a reads-list is also not content, it's a classic scum post to attempt to show they are trying to determine people's alignments. I mean, was there even one question in your whole 162? You're not engaging players, you're not attempting to develops reads, instead, you're just stating some opinions that are very likely made up on the spot for that post. [\quote]
Wheee useless fluffy theory. Look at me! I'm pretending that my posts help.

I just think they put way too much stock into it. I agree that it didn't really progress the game at all, as YGS said, but saying that's enough to have a scumread on Alch (but not farside? unless I'm misreading post 154) smells like someone desperate for any kind of scumread.

I'm gonna go ahead and clarify that I'm not scum reading Alch right now. I don't think he has done anything particularly alignment indicative as of yet.[\quote]
Good I guess I found a scum buddy.

All right folks, starting this read from scratch.

I really don't like that you felt the need to state you were starting from scratch. Is this some preemptive reasoning for some upcoming actions?[\quote]
LOL. If you want to post fluff – you can also say that your "me and bella aren't in sync" is just as shifty.

[DrDolittle]

Well fuck did that come out bad. But i don't even feel like continuing isoing . Everything you have is a scum post at its bare bones. You need to get lynched promto

[DrDolittle]

Is there a problem Farside?

Your push on Alch is weak; look at the company on your Alch wagon and tell me with a straight face that you're happy with it.

Q is also posturing to join the Alch wagon.

Also this. You don't go argue why Alch's wagon is bad. You go ahead and attack the people on Alch's wagon.

[DrDolittle]

someone also asked me why ricastle is town. that's easy, his entrance is strong, and I had a town read on the player that he replaced. When these things align - you have a town slot

[DrDolittle]

sync

if you'd read you'd know that this was to mock ygs saying that ts is scum because he said he starded from scratch

[DrDolittle]

I think Dolittle

was waiting for the consensus on my wagon and that he's most likely scum here.

found scum

Fixed it for you.

[DrDolittle]

His first reaction was to put me down rather than actually address the point.

cause you had no point. stop sitting on the high horse buddy.

[DrDolittle]

VOTE: Kthxbye

any thoughts on the wagoned people?

[DrDolittle]

Reconsidering Alchemist - his posts get more town-sounding in the later half of the game

which game are you reading again

[DrDolittle]

I STILL haven't seen anyone push either of the top 2 wagons. With deadline approaching, this isn't time for 'ooooh, look at me vote like a rebel'. It's a waste of time unless you plan on pushing it with a case and actually trying to convince others that you have the best case.
...

VOTE: TS

kek

[DrDolittle]

id be down for alch today

[DrDolittle]

intent to hammer

[DrDolittle]

probably can wait until friday after farside rereads

[DrDolittle]

[DrDolittle]

VOTE: alch

[DrDolittle]

btw i did iso on zakk and i lolled pretty hard

[DrDolittle]

zakk's iso is one of sadness and tragedy

[DrDolittle]

can someone do a nk analysis

[DrDolittle]

also i dont see why ts is scum. 529 looks like a quality argument and is exactly what i think

[DrDolittle]

yeah - and kthx's posts did not show to be any of the three typical reasons.

[DrDolittle]

Surfing the WIFOM:mollie and mala

[DrDolittle]

I asked for the nka without providing anything. Not Q.
Also, VOTE: Azeral

[DrDolittle]

@Mollie: did ISO of drdolittle: I think his vote is generally in the right place, but his posts read scummy. I think that that is a matter of posting style. If he were scum and scum were going for distancing, I think he would have counterpushed alch harder. Light town read.

Drdolittle, why are you voting azral instead of YGS? (That is an actual question I want you to answer, not trying to convince you)

Re azral: I could see azral as scum. His iso looks town at the beginning but his continued scumread of guille over something that happened early game is weird. He is constantly looking for alternatives to YGS/alch. First guille/kthx and then the zakk wagon as it pops up.

I suppose this goes next after YGS.

And molliecat you talked about how you found it weird that I called kthx not a good player. I've played with him 2 or 3 times and both as scum and as town he was shitty. I have not seen him play a good game (even though this game looks to be the best of what I've seen from him). I can provide you with links to every game I've played with him together with a shott summary of his play in those games, if you want me to.

YGS has two heads and is hard to read. I do agree that they are scummy (see me agreeing with your post). However, the bella's head is considerably less so.

On the other hand Azral is unnatural. I remember a specific post of "alchemist's post are getting townier in the latter half of the game" This is simply not true, and I feel like is a stir in the pot. Then note that Azral replaced mathdino, who had a similar viewpoint - that weird friend/enemy vibe towards alch. This is weird and makes me think that Az and Math has the same goal towards Alch - i.e. trying to prevent him from dying but

With that said I think Az needs to go behore YGS

[DrDolittle]

pretty down to hammer

[DrDolittle]

sheeping town rep VOTE: azral

[DrDolittle]

i think zakk is town.

[DrDolittle]

There is certainly one or more mafia between

{TierShift
farside22
Piratecat}

[DrDolittle]

sorry what is this mass claiming fiasco?
also i'm pretty sure farside v zakk is tvt.
riabi's attack on zakk is bad. he essentially says, despite having a bigger scum read on Azral, he wants to attack zakk for ad homiem and a nonsense analysis on 955.

[DrDolittle]

VOTE: doolittle

lol

[DrDolittle]

There is certainly one or more mafia between

{TierShift
farside22
Piratecat}

This is my analysis: The 2NKs have been on players who haven't posted much or given much reads as town. The NK I feel like is to leave as little information as possible. With that said, suppose that all three players above are town. In D1 and D2, little suspicion has been thrown onto these three players above. Despite that, the scum must be confident enough that they can take on these three high frequency posting, high profile players. However, I conjecture that most of the remaining players don't dare as much to keep all three of these alive - especially considering their reads are not uniform throughout the playerbase.

It only makes sense that one or more of the three people above are scum, and they are pretty confident in dealing with the others.

also i'm pretty sure farside v zakk is tvt.

PC keeps on droning on how I don't give anything after that post. That's not true. Farside is not scum due to her early interactions with farside in day 1 – scum usually do their early game chit chat in the scum chat. The later hop of the wagon after it's been building makes me less sure, however. Now, we have isolated scum into {TS and PC}.
I'm leaning scum more towards PC because of
1. voting YGS after wagon build-up
2. lazy push on me regarding reads
3. lots of worthless poop flinging

[DrDolittle]

VOTE: pc

[DrDolittle]

i feel like doolittle looks sooper dooper bad and he has disappeared.

also you keep on saying that, but it's just a misrep. my activity in all games are very consistent with each other.

[DrDolittle]

，

[DrDolittle]

Read kthx and nottys ISO and tell me if they are precieved to be threats

[DrDolittle]

Spoiler:

sigh. I can't even believe I'm having to explain this.

Mala isn't even close to on the table for lynching today. She soft claimed and then harder claimed that she is a PR. If she's town, scum either take a risk to let her live hoping to get a mislynch at some point OR (and most likely) they NK her making figuring her out not important right now in the least. Come D3 (maaaaybe at the earliest D2), if she's still alive, then I'll start to have some concern about her alignment. Either way, her alignment will be more clear later on. Period. Don't noob this site up more with any arguments to this because ^this is smart and if you say anything against it, you are, to be blunt, a dumbass.

I STILL haven't seen anyone push either of the top 2 wagons. With deadline approaching, this isn't time for 'ooooh, look at me vote like a rebel'. It's a waste of time unless you plan on pushing it with a case and actually trying to convince others that you have the best case. coughAzralcough.

Speaking of Azral, you've said the top two wagons are good and likely on scum. You've then said with much more conviction that mala is obv scum. Yet you vote me. Your posts and actions do not line up. Also, how the fuck you miss a PR soft claim enough to call the person who made it obv-scum. Are you actually reading the thread?

Sadly, I'm leaning town on Azral. He's been way to contradictory to be scum. Unless he's super-noob-scum, scum are way more careful about what they post and avoid contradiction.

I actually really like YGS's latest post. Not gonna throw them into confirmed town status, but they'd be a bad lynch today I think.

Malakittens is 100% lurker-scum, but I've decided not to vote her today.

This is 100% what I'm feeling.

^this is hypocritical as hell. TS has a grand total of 35 posts that say absolutely nothing. He's also not even attempting to push the wagon he's on. Could go for a TS lynch today.

Leaning town on numberQ. Although he has fewer posts than TS, he has said much more. I feel a genuine attempt to find scum here

I'm town reading Ricastle only due to his predecessor. d3x and I go way back. First, d3x's limited posting gave me town vibes. Second, I don't see d3x replacing out as scum. These aren't 100% tells, but I'm going with them for now.

Part of me feels like neither of the top wagons are scum. If scum weren't on the wagons, one would be much closer to a lynch right now. I feel like scum are biding their time and waiting to see which takes off come deadline. I got a gut feeling on this and I'd like to trust it.

I'd honestly like to push through a TS lynch just for the point I made above. It's D1 so there's not even a VCA to go off of as we have no flips. None of the scum have scum-slipped. The post I pointed out above is the best reason given to lynch anyone in this game today so far. TS should be today's lynch.

VOTE: TS

I will follow them ladies to the end of the earth.

VOTE: alch

obvtown wall of mollie's

k i skimmed their iso

this is town

And I will work with them tomorrow!

TOWN
malamollie
farside- due to alch interactions looking more like svt than svs
Tiershift- he looks nothing like mod error tiershift
ricastle- sheeping ktb's read on d3x
RIabi- gut

I fully acknowledge tiershift saying my reason to townread him is bad and ignore him saying that

Let's get this lynch on the road.

If you join this wagon I will give you my vote to lynch zakk tomorrow no questions asked

These quotes show that both kthx and notscience had their own reads that they clearly stated. They show that both were willing to work with others and they also show that kthx pushes hard for the lynches he wants.

That is definitely enough to be considered a threat and I would consider them bigger threats than farside, as farside is not trying to work towards town cohesion.

Pls tell me you're serious here

[DrDolittle]

His point is that us 3 are suspicious because we should be threats to the scumteam if we're town and scum takes no measure at all to eliminate these threats

My counterpoint is that we weren't the only threats. If he sees us as threats, kthx and notscience should definitely be considered threats. That means that out of 5 threats, 2 have already been eliminated and I probably go tonight.

He's acting as if we're the only ones scum can be afraid of. That's bullshit.

again i reiterate,

kthx and notty did not appear to be threats, at least to my end. The weak posts that you pointed out did only strengthen my case.

400: kthx called a lot of people town. that post was basically a lazy attempt at gathering everyone to get at least a lynch for the day. He DID incriminate you, so maybe that's why he got shot, but I'm not certain.

458: sheeping others, while you might embellish it to be "working well with others", i think actually does not paint a favorable light for a player. I do concede that mala-scum would be less likely to kill kthx.

605: another point for mala. a small one though since it's just brief

617: This is a weak set of reads. TS is based on meta from another scum game, ric is sheep, riabi is gut.

734: ???

736: Lining up lynches is not good practice. You said so yourself. How is this post remotely town.

The fact that YOU consider them to be threats plays directly into my opinion that YOU might be scum and killed them.

the reason that i asked for a nka on the first night was that i was surprised kthx got killed because how little content that he posted. the blanks that i drew indeed confirmed this fact. however since that is only 1 night, i wasn't sure whether i was just drawing from a statistical anomaly.

also with regards to false assumptions, you have no right to be making the claim, since my claim hinges on the fact that other people out of the three that i mentioned did not read kthx and notty as threats.

i feel like im hitting a wall and i dont want to repeated explain what my reads are. mafia is a game of chance and sometimes you need to make assumptions to figure the game out.

even saying that there is scum in three people is not a absurd claim. randomly speaking, there's like what, probably greater than 50%? [58 to be exact]

if town feels that they want to be contorted by experienced scum (hint ric), be my guest.

though after rereading the kind posts that ts pointed out, im reevaluating, and i think ts is scum

vote: ts

[DrDolittle]

Ricastle, what I don't like about dolittle is his unexplained stanve on azral-zakk. He seemingly takes one side of the argument without really being involved: he takes a stance just for the sake of it.

I think his analysis is flawed, as I pointed out. Making logical analysis from false premises is very easy as scum. Do you agree with my assessment of his analysis?

also, this is easy. zakk is town. that's my read.
town rep says azral is scum. azral was also pretty scummy yesterday (i had a post about it)

i don't see why this is so controversial.

i think youre pulling shit out of a hat.

[DrDolittle]

On the other hand Azral is unnatural. I remember a specific post of "alchemist's post are getting townier in the latter half of the game" This is simply not true, and I feel like is a stir in the pot. Then note that Azral replaced mathdino, who had a similar viewpoint - that weird friend/enemy vibe towards alch. This is weird and makes me think that Az and Math has the same goal towards Alch - i.e. trying to prevent him from dying but

With that said I think Az needs to go behore YGS

In fact, it was you who asked me to explain why az before ygs.

[DrDolittle]

Okay I reread azrel and dr.d.

Dr.d moves to scum now because the argument between him and alch look fakes, especially as alch continues to push it, dr.d moves to ygs. Day 2 he votes azrel out of no where.

Vote: dolittle

[DrDolittle]

I feel your analysis is working from the false premise that we 3 are bigger threats to scum than kthx and notty. I have tried to demonstrate why, but you keep just scoffing at my posts. I really feel that kthx and notty could have been bigger threats or more attractive NK choices to scum than us 3, whether that is for their reads, unaccountability (because maybe their reads weren't fully formed yet) or for their lack of presence as to create a low-info NK.

holy shit you re really not getting it. i don't give a shit that you feel kthx and notty can be bigger threats. Im saying that

DrDolittle
Riabi
Azral
zakk
Ricastle
numberQ

dont.

[DrDolittle]

It is the exact analysis scum in your spot wants to make. As scum, you add new players to the lynch pool and you paint the people who are working together as scummy, so you can drive a wedge between them and the rest of the town. You also rally support for lynching a strong town player: if you were scum and seeing us as threats, this is the exact way you would go about eliminating us.

no as scum, i kill strong town players, not go heads up against them.

when you form reads you inevitably add players to lynch pool. otherwise, everyday would be no lynch and the game would be awfully dull

[DrDolittle]

On the other hand Azral is unnatural. I remember a specific post of "alchemist's post are getting townier in the latter half of the game" This is simply not true, and I feel like is a stir in the pot. Then note that Azral replaced mathdino, who had a similar viewpoint - that weird friend/enemy vibe towards alch. This is weird and makes me think that Az and Math has the same goal towards Alch - i.e. trying to prevent him from dying but

With that said I think Az needs to go behore YGS

In fact, it was you who asked me to explain why az before ygs.

regarding az vote, why didn't you call me out yesterday, but wait until today to say somehting about my vote on az. why is pushing someone i think is scum scummy? why is this post weak?

[DrDolittle]

Dolittle, I want you to explain why scum-me would do literally any of the things I'm doing right now if malamollie is town.
1. Defending malamollie
2. Attacking you
3. Not killing malamollie

cause
1. pc is town reading you and you don't want to let that go.
2. because im easy lynch bait with support of pc
3. pc is town reading you and you determined notty to be a big threat (which you said so in like 2 posts ago).

[DrDolittle]

ok. one last time. dumbing it down

my hypothesis is that the following players
DrDolittle
Riabi
Azral
zakk
Ricastle
numberQ
would not regard notty and kthx as threats, because of notty and kthx's relatively weak posts and their lack of experience with notty and kthx's game strength. thus an entire scum team composed of these players will not kill notty and kthx, but instead go for a more prolific poster like in (pc, ts, farside) if you guys are all town.

therefore, there has to be one scum in (pc, ts, farside) in the scum team

so what your thoughts on notty and kthx doesn't matter. its what

DrDolittle
Riabi
Azral
zakk
Ricastle
numberQ

thinks that really counts.

if you still don't get it then i can't do anything anymore. maybe try a mutivitamin tablet daily?>

[DrDolittle]

it's today that you were just sitting on your vote without being proactive.

why is sitting on my scum read not ok.
was azral a frequent poster that warrented my re inspection?
did anyone ask me why i am voting az today?

[DrDolittle]

riabi and i have never played with kthx
i played with notty once - he was subpar from what i remember
this is riabi's only game with notty:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... notscience
quick read doesn't make it seem that ns was particularly strong town.

(similarly, he was nked n2 the day he replaced in, despite not being strong town presence. guess what - scum is IC goodmorning, a strong player)

i have no info on ric, so he has to confirm himself

[DrDolittle]

particularly i'd like to highlight this from the scumchat:

goodmorning

Post Post #23 (ISO) » Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:21 pm
"Mmk.

I think we should kill notsci. He's active and fresh and any scumteam would get rid of him. What do you think?"

Do you think a newbie player would have known that any scumteam would like to get rid of notty by his iso in that game? No.

[DrDolittle]

im getting myself too invested in this argument and thats not good.

[DrDolittle]

Okay I reread azrel and dr.d.

Dr.d moves to scum now because the argument between him and alch look fakes, especially as alch continues to push it, dr.d moves to ygs. Day 2 he votes azrel out of no where.

Vote: dolittle

You can role all you want, tell me how it's wrong.

fake is your personal opinion.
i moved to ygs when i found her more scummy, but i continuously reiterated how i found alch scummy and expressed willingness to get on his wagon.
i repeated my reason for why i voted alch like 3 posts above.

[DrDolittle]

particularly i'd like to highlight this from the scumchat:

goodmorning

Post Post #23 (ISO) » Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:21 pm
"Mmk.

I think we should kill notsci. He's active and fresh and any scumteam would get rid of him. What do you think?"

Do you think a newbie player would have known that any scumteam would like to get rid of notty by his iso in that game? No.

can you quote the post where this came from plz?

I am having trouble finding it. it isn't post #23 in the game thread and it isn't post #23 in gm's iso so where did it come from

I remember that being said i think, but there is no link.

also can these players:

rabies
numbersq
azral
ricastle

answer as to whether or not they wld nk kthnx or notty?

doolittle is answering for you guys and I just want to be clear that as to what you guys think

zak can't answer cos he has subbed out.

hey mod can we plz have a vc? ty! <3

i told you, its from the scumchat of the game. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p6021639

also that is fair enough. I'd also like to see their responses.

[DrDolittle]

More wifom

Here let me return it back.

Kthy and notty called me town. I gain nothing as scum in there death.

Good luck wifom you garbage from that.

can you read? i now understand zakk's frustration. you have like a logic skill of a 2 but an ego of an 11. you don't understand my argument at all, yet you are trying terrifically hard to discredit it.

let me try again. am i calling you scum? no. my claim is that it can't be that both scum is in

DrDolittle
Riabi
Azral
zakk
Ricastle
numberQ

because they could not view notty and kthx as a threat based on their in game posts. therefore, there is a scum outside this group, which is you, ts, pc.

THE HYPOTHESIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU. STOP SAYING WHAT YOUR FEELING IS. IT DOESNT MATTER. TS GOT IT, BUT YOURE STILL HOLDING THE SHITBATON.

also you left out that i called you town and removed you from the pool after making the hypothesis. so your counterargument really doesn't make any sense at all.

[DrDolittle]

a theory post: wifom discredit is usually garbage. you always have to gauge the probability of something happening in context of the game. sure the concept of wifom exists, but so does incentive - and incentives are what drives people to do stuff (giving out wifom is just a subcase of these intentions) . Then, for each iteration of WIFOM, the value of the flipping decisions decreases.

I think the Rubinstien email game is a prime example of how in a very WIFOM situation, there is actually none.

[DrDolittle]

Way to dismiss and belittle.
Your point is activity. I'm asking why you think someone in the group of three you are point to, which includes me, would kill a player that is town reading them.

if you still don't get it then i can't do anything anymore. maybe try a mutivitamin tablet daily?>

[DrDolittle]

lol

[DrDolittle]

i was planning to type out another explaination. but then i realized that i would have done it 3 times already.

[DrDolittle]

You know why scum keep 3 active player like us alive, because we are fight each other.
more wifom

this is exactly where 1523 shines. keeping the only 3 strong active players that are town alive might be good for WIFOM, but there is a large probability that these players can go ahead and find scum and strongarm their lynch, and that is very much undesirable, so much so that the WIFOM value pales in comparison to killing one of you off.

but i guess i can see the argument to keeping you alive because youre absolutely clueless

[DrDolittle]

you can say whatever you want like it doesn't make me scum

[DrDolittle]

I asked outside that what makes titus or pc scum?

why are you trying make me ignore my reasoning? that's the basis of my vote.

i isolate to 1+ scum in three people, I town read you, and i think ts is more scummy than pc.

i'm thinking of retracting my town read, but dense =! scummy.

[DrDolittle]

there are like 50 levels of wrong in this post.

I like to work my way from the bottom up. I wld like to point out the obvs that you had us far/tier/us in your scumpile (which ricastle was helpful in pointing out!) before your hypothesis.

thats because i had the hypothesis but didn't state it yet. it was like a one line post, and exactly what the hypothesis concluded. (note one or more)

also I wld like to point out the irony of giving your nka AFTER you ask for other pple's nka only to dismiss the nks themselves by saying they are low info LOLOLOLOLOL

the first night i wasn't sure, and i thought it might be a coincidence. but not two nights in a row
low info nk is part of nka. i didn't dismiss them at all.

and your addendum that both scum cannot possibly be in every single other player that you listed which is a composite of 6 including yourself, so 1 scum MUST be in far, tier or I, is reaching.

why? i think its valid, and you using "reaching" is just a fluff word that you don't really understand/

WHY IS THIS THING STILL ALIVE

you can vote me all you want but im still town.

[DrDolittle]

Let's see if we can fix that.

VOTE: dolittle

vt

[DrDolittle]

im like pretty tired of this game.

all i ask is to keep the pc/ts in check and don't let farside lead town into bad lynches.

[DrDolittle]

Null/scum: dolittle, Ricastle
Lean scum: Piratecat, Azral

hardy har har

[DrDolittle]

UNVOTE:

[DrDolittle]

i still think pc is scum but pc scum doesnt make a lot of sense

[DrDolittle]

qthing (especially) and riabi is due for a prod

ric is so town it hurts

pers' vote on me did feel weird given that he gave no opinions on me. however reading him scum for that bp shit is dumb.

[DrDolittle]

VOTE: rabies

...

I don't like numbersq at all.

who do you like

[DrDolittle]

q is probably not scum.

[DrDolittle]

im so confused as to why both persuval and my wagon fizzled so quickly

[DrDolittle]

VOTE: Azral

please explain. also, state whether you are willing to jump to riabi as well? Like - are you just trying to find any wagon that sticks that is not your own?

[DrDolittle]

i can go behind riabi

[DrDolittle]

VOTE: riabi

[DrDolittle]

Hey guys posting from vla.

I used my super secret scum hunting power and deducrd that Farside is scum

You're welcom

[DrDolittle]

VOTE: farside

[DrDolittle]

Someone wake me when dolittle comes back and when there is a replacement for tier.

sup

[DrDolittle]

i can investigate 2 players per night.
n1 I investigated farside twice. both were scum
i wasn't sure so
n2 I investigated farside twice. both were scum
i still wasn't sure so
n3 I investigated farside twice. both were scum
by now im like 80% sure

guys you should sheep me

[DrDolittle]

but actually, like I am honestly not planning to move my vote away unless someone literally says "im scum"

[DrDolittle]

farside's partner is meebee azral and meebee ts im not sure yet.

[DrDolittle]

pers's probably town as well as lynch bait

[DrDolittle]

Dolittle, are you literally claiming infinite-shot double cop?? Is there a purpose to investigating the same person twice in the same night?

of course im kidding jessus

[DrDolittle]

yeah like reads change day by day tide rises tide falls cant explain that

[DrDolittle]

VOTE: dolittle

r u metal sonic

[DrDolittle]

hey cool cats.

see the following three very closely together posts:

Sorry I'm town.
Not my best town performance but I'm town.

Pc: did you look into zakk' meta?

This nagged me a lot. unnatural as f. turns out scum farside has said something similar along this line too sometime in the past. has town farside said this? I don't think soooo

Well riabi is pretty useless. I don't think either of you are scum but at least you are around.

Vote: riabi

seems like a forced explaination of sorts. almost grappling for reads, as if she knows riabi is going to flip town. Note previously her read on riabi is null.

I think it's time for mass claim.
azrel and ric are my top 2 scum reads.

gives no reason for mass claim - gives two scum reads then proceeds to omgus. naice

far also nags me about having 'fake' interactions with alch. well well well. i looked into alch's meta and it seems alch is not prone to interacting with scum partners early on the day. that was almost the basis of my entire day 1.

hey hey hey far are you voting me cause you are insecure of your day 1 interaction with alch since your voting patterns on him is weird.

[DrDolittle]

There are gaps in logic, I checked his meta on this and he doesn't have gaps in logic with nka.

lol the only gaps are the ones in your head

[DrDolittle]

sup whats the convo

[DrDolittle]

yo pc why did you change your read on ric?
also why is az town

[DrDolittle]

i never said that i had night info on far

[DrDolittle]

i can investigate 2 players per night.
n1 I investigated farside twice. both were scum
i wasn't sure so
n2 I investigated farside twice. both were scum
i still wasn't sure so
n3 I investigated farside twice. both were scum
by now im like 80% sure

guys you should sheep me

ok i did but this is obviously a joke

[DrDolittle]

aeronaut's play is a bigger disappointment than when i got to usa and tried real mcd for the first time

[DrDolittle]

well we are the doc

it was between far and kthnx n1 (far)

tier and ricastle on n2 (tier)

tier and ricastle again last night (tier)

I have ricastle as town rep cos of 981

mala thinks there is 1 other special

this is where we are at

areonaut please continue with your insight.

[DrDolittle]

what were you hoping to accomplish with this post on the coattails of your previous "I have night info" drop earlier?

like, what did you think wld happen when town shld be feeling like paranoid freaks right about now, not happy go-lucky I am going to troll the thread for lulz cos I don't care about posturing a vote on a player cos lulz.

like what was your motivation here cos the brickwall that I hit is that at this particular time there isn't any.

holy fuck where did i say i have night info. i was on vla and trying to drop i have updated info and scum read on far. I literally said using my type scum hunting techniques (based on nuances in speech, meta and whatnot which i explained later)

like why the fuck are you feeling paranoid? This game looks almost complete. We are working with two pretty-much conf towns (you and areo), likely town on ric and (for me its zakk and for you its az), and scumside22 is at L-1. what more do you want

[DrDolittle]

how can 1498 be serious holy fuck
like am i this retarded to investiage the same person 6 times in a row

[DrDolittle]

also yep
trolling = scum

[DrDolittle]

like that vote on me on 1602 is so fucking weak

[DrDolittle]

like that vote on me on 1602 is so fucking weak

Pot, I have to tell you that throwing stones is going to come back and smack you in the face there.

k

[DrDolittle]

i bet youd like that cause im your competing wagon and mislynch bait

[DrDolittle]

if doolittle is town I want to meet him in IRL so I can punch him in the face.

cool i guess the feeling is mutual

wanna explain your progression of ric reads?

[DrDolittle]

mala thinks there is 1 other special

talk to me

chosen to be verified IC + doc + vanilla cop

and you think there is another (i assume town) special

why?

[DrDolittle]

Trolling at this point in the game is honestly as good as scum to be honest.

is this what you think or a well documented phenomena? if the latter, please substantiate

[DrDolittle]

there is a certain level of predictability that comes with the feeling of responsibility and investment in a game as town. you showed none.

this past year thorella taught me something incredibly powerful. he said that it was within his experience that town were more likely to put in more effort than scum the closer to endgame and it made my win ratio do a launch. this is why I think persi might actually be town.

let me also teach you something incredibly powerful. every player is different! Guess what - you can meta them to find out what type of player it is! what a riot!

self-meta take fwiw - im usually very uptight when playing town w.e.

btw if this is what it takes to make you think persi is town - that he is playing seriously - then im not sure that i can trust any of your reads

[DrDolittle]

i had a long post typed out but it disappeared. but here is the basics

pc, I don't understand at all your read progression - it might be a by product hydra and playstyle, but im getting very paranoid.
because you claimed doc, im willing to give you pass - but if areo dies before you, my vote will be parked on your slot until one of us gets lynched

[DrDolittle]

i just got paranoid at pers-scum again but i think he's town

like there is no reason for him to unvote me and attack farside since my wagon is easy to hop on

of course there is conf-bias there, but w.w

[DrDolittle]

self-meta take fwiw - im usually very uptight when playing

town

scum w.e.

mistakes were made

[DrDolittle]

hey hey hey areo hows your reads going

[DrDolittle]

sorry please run over with me why farside over persi? is it that you read far as town or you read persi more scum than farside

[DrDolittle]

sorry whats going on is there a hammer?

[DrDolittle]

i still dont think pers is scum but that is now moot.

[DrDolittle]

ricastle I think you are scum.

discuss.

I dont think so

[DrDolittle]

PC whos the other scum

[DrDolittle]

far/az

[DrDolittle]

PC whos the other scum

[DrDolittle]

sorry clickidy click. consider vote far then?

[DrDolittle]

based on reads or poe?

[DrDolittle]

no hammer

[DrDolittle]

hm this rejects my ric town az scum hypothesis.

[DrDolittle]

did ric claim vt? if so,

can someone work with me a bit on setup speculation - is

Town rep (delay confirm IC) + Vanilla cop + 8 VT vs 2 goons + scum PR

is too scumsided, right?

also pc who did you protect last night

[DrDolittle]

ugh so we have
far pc
far az
far ric

pc az
pc ric

az ric

From no ric town az scum, we can filter so that the ones remain are
far pc
far ric
pc ric
az ric
so essentially if i can verify pc is town, ric has to be scum..

[DrDolittle]

also pc who did you protect last night

[DrDolittle]

d3x ISO is not very useful in narrowing this down. Calls a Dolittle post solid, puts him as townish. Boring question to Mala, no real mention of far except replying to a question from her about Riabi.

someone also asked me why ricastle is town. that's easy, his entrance is strong, and I had a town read on the player that he replaced. When these things align - you have a town slot

Why did you townread d3x?

because d3x and ric's thoughts this whole game more or less mirrors my own exactly, even up to this page.
furthermore i liked d3x attack on alchemist. it felt right, as in he wasn't trying to sweep a shit argument under the carpet, but bringing it out to discuss it

[DrDolittle]

Town rep (delay confirm IC) + Vanilla cop + 8 VT vs 2 goons + scum

pr

taunting bastard

(effectively 3 goons) is that balanced?

[DrDolittle]

dawg im guessing because im trying to figure out why i shouldn't hammer

like in trying to see if the weakest possible setup for scum is still scum sided if pc lied. if it is, then the only possible explaination is pc didn't lie, and that she is doc and you are scum

[DrDolittle]

funny i was just about to say the same thing

[DrDolittle]

at this point i don't know whos scum .

i defended ric so hard because i thought he was town. plain and simple. this comes from two main factors:
1. His defense of me seemed town. i know im town, and the fact that he wouldnt hop on my wagon despite an easy mislynch on day 3 indicates that he is town.
2. His push on Alch day 1 seemed real - he was on the wagon the whole time.

[DrDolittle]

dawg im guessing because im trying to figure out why i shouldn't hammer

like in trying to see if the weakest possible setup for scum is still scum sided if pc lied. if it is, then the only possible explaination is pc didn't lie, and that she is doc and you are scum

i didn't act yesterday because i had a town read on ric but there is a strong indicator here that he is scum and i was conflicted.

[DrDolittle]

id be down for alch today

i was always ready to vote alch d1. i just found ygs to be more scummy

[DrDolittle]

at this point i don't know whos scum .

Can you give me something more than this to work with? I'm pretty sure you must have reads on me and farside by now (you said we were the scum team before the Ric wagon happened) so what are you thinking?

are you reading?

[DrDolittle]

ill probably reread and stuff too but that comes later tomorrow.

[DrDolittle]

i had a town read on ric.
mala is likely town on setup
i myself am not scum.

what should i be thinking az?

[DrDolittle]

god az's posts are so fucking clean that im getting paranoid. its disturbing how few interaction interaction with ric or alch he has and that's really unsettingly

[DrDolittle]

not hammering

[DrDolittle]

fucking shit

[DrDolittle]

so im reading 10 pages by 10 pages...

1- 10:
Az (Dino):
- Weird Entrance. Over justification thing
- Says alch is town - but may be due to eloquence?
- 179 nothing interesting at all
+ small argument with alch over game type

Farside:
+ very heated argument with alch regarding trivialities & other early shenanagans
+ alch attacks far early and defends dino (when he was not in danger of being lynched)
- Ric's Triumvriate "math - alch - ygs". I don't know if he's that ballsy to throw both of his scummates under the bus so early. Calls farside super town - kinda balances with alch super scum? Idk

[DrDolittle]

i really like 476 and 477 on farsides behalf
it seems that alch is almost pleading the farside to unvote, in a really non-scum buddy sense

whereas az threw a vote instead on ygs when alch is l-1, who was a completely viable counter wagon.

[DrDolittle]

Vote: zakk

VOTE: zakk

and then this happened. shit

[DrDolittle]

Votecount 1.FINAL

Alchemist21 [LYNCH] - Ricastle, TierShift, Kthxbye, DrDolittle, zakk, Piratecat, farside22

You Got Schooled [L-5] - numberQ, Riabi
numberQ [L-5] - Flames682, You Got Schooled
zakk [L-6] - Azral
DrDolittle [L-6] - Alchemist21

Not Voting [0] -

With 13 alive, it takes

7

to lynch. The day

will end in (expired on 2015-07-03 22:00:00)

is over.

Alchemist was lynched Day 1! He was a

Mafia Goon

!

Kthxbye was killed Night 1! He was a

Vanilla Townie

!

CLUE:

Three men remain.

if y'all have time help me figure out what is going on with this clue, as well as the puppet thing. Like trust not the numbered was pretty significant.

[DrDolittle]

yeah - I'm learning a lot about the game from mollie's posts now that I know I can fully trust it.

[DrDolittle]

so ygs vanilla copped q and q was innocent. then its hard to see that q was gotten rid of in the town rep hunting assignment
will prolly look at this in further detail when i get to it

[DrDolittle]

I want to say both of those clues point to farside, but the fact that a couple of them have been used more than once is weird. I dunno.

sure- but why?

[DrDolittle]

i really like far's push on pc on page 39ish.
pc always gave me paranoia throughout the game. i know it happened with pers as well.

and the fact that pc is practically 'unlynchable' kinda indicates that far is not scum, because scum would want to influence the game by pushing towards mislynches.

---
i'm still trying to figure out what the hell happened to notty. why did notty die. it doesn't make any sense to me.

[DrDolittle]

as scum or town, far, do you often trade vote agreements with people to pull a "i told you so" the next day?

[DrDolittle]

I never took the clues seriously because scum were writing them.
Like obviously we know right now there are not 4 scum or the game would be over.

you should probably take them seriously now. taunting bastards probably has an effect in the game. remember - mafia is

required

to be taunting. maybe gm is in the back forcing maf to choose one out of 5 quotes. maybe gm writes a hint that would help town and mafia has to make a post regarding this hint. idk.

regardless that means that mafia will trying to write something out that is vaguely true, but just set under a winefield. however, the proceeding of the game clears this winefield, for example, alch flip matches with trust not the numbered, and whoever first discussed the clues flipped town. however, 3 men remain is still unexplained, as well as the puppets thing. it might be that im dense, but I'd like to figure out what it means.


now az im wating for you to explain how these posts point far scum

i will be continuing reading

[DrDolittle]

just made it to 47, and here are the major thoughts.

it is without a doubt farside's post is a lot more town than azral's. Her posts are straight to point, they seem very straightforward - The motivation is almost spilled out on paper.

On the other hand, based on interactions, it seems that farside is more likely scum. For example, q pointed out quite clearly on how Ric was trying to sneak onto az's wagon on day 3. And it seemed to be exactly that - it wasn't the sort of bussing because ric and az barely talked and incriminated each other.

In general I'm still very conflicted. Guys please provide some thoughts?

[DrDolittle]

Cool! I finally went through the game. To make sure that I'm not missing anything, can both of you do a

short

post (or quote if you have already) on the

one

strongest reason why the other person is scum. Thanks!

[DrDolittle]

VOTE: az

[DrDolittle]

if im wrong ill just crawl into a hole and die.

but this is mostly from reading what mollie wrote, as well as overall farside's strong posts, including attack on ric, and strong paranoia of pc on day 2 and 3

[DrDolittle]

sorry for taking so long. i was honestly reading and rereading the entire time

[DrDolittle]

sorry for that shit on day 3 - thanks, especially farside for putting up and not lynching me.

yeah