Mini 1712: Clue Master Detectives Mafia II - Game Over

[Toogeloo]

Vote: BBT

Reluctance is a scum tell. Are you afraid town will have a power role that discerns which characters are mafia?

Orange y'all glad that I'm feeling Peachy today?

[Toogeloo]

Also, I had a pretty nifty item during Night 0, but was forced to drop it "when I heard a Bang!" which I assume meant gun shot, but our poor host seems to not have died by a gunshot.

[Toogeloo]

For instance, scum know (assuming Town Toog) that the item Toog was carrying is not in his room.

Touché

[Toogeloo]

I was in the Conservatory last night.

[Toogeloo]

varsoona nobody is saying "lynch titus" I am saying LYNCH SHROEDINGER cos since scum know where every1 is if we claim items it tells scum exactly where the items are located.

Once an item is dropped or used they will appear on a random room.

Considering my PM said the item was dropped, I'm thinking that the only info I gave away was that I had an item on Night 0. I'm guessing the item I had is no longer where I was. I don't inherently see anything wrong with claiming items you

had

, at least not anything detrimental at the moment.

[Toogeloo]

Talking it over, Toog, what was your item?

It was the Wrench. It allows the user to move to any room they wish, and any action used on them will miss.

[Toogeloo]

@Farside
-I think he was "concerned" that I said I left an item behind, not that I was scum, because he follows up that sentence immediately with "We don't want scum getting Toog's weapon."

[Toogeloo]

Did you use the wrench or were you just forced to drop it randomly/because of the gunshot?

It didn't specifically say the Gunshot caused me to drop the Wrench. It said I heard a gunshot and in my haste to the next room, I dropped the wrench. I didn't use it, I am in an adjacent room to where I started on Night 0. There is no other clue (har har) as to what would cause me to lose the Wrench.

[Toogeloo]

@Farside, Testing Toog. If Toog did drop a weapon then anyone who had that item could counterclaim. If items didn't match, then Toog knowing an item someone else possessed would indicate town Toog.

@Toog where did you start?

I'm not really following this logic.

If someone else claims to have had the weapon I claimed to have had on Night 0, then one of us would be lying. Scum me wouldn't claim it if a town person actually had it, as that would be dumb, and why would scum lie about having it on Night 0 just to make me look like a liar, which would also be dumb? So what does asking for a Counterclaim actually do other insinuate doubt in me and that I lied about my item being dropped? Anyone who has the Wrench now will know that what I said about it's function is true, but they would be dumb to out themselves over confirmation of it's ability.

[Toogeloo]

I'm thoroughly interested in hearing hiplop's rebuttal!

Side note, those were some pretty fast votes on hiplop by people who have had almost no impact on this game so far. If what I suspect is true (Shrodinger and Mollie are both town), I suspect that scum are riding out the big fish fights and I'm willing to bet one of them just bussed their buddy here to save face.

[Toogeloo]

And I mentioned it before, the PM said BANG! But we've all kind of gone on to assume it was a gunshot, due mostly to my initial thoughts of the PM and Schrodinger stating they fired the gun on Night 0.

Speaking of firing the Gun on Night 0. Schrodinger, I want to know the thought process as to why (if you are town) would you get rid of a weapon that is actually capable of killing any player in the house at any distance? This seems like the kind of thing scum would want (as opposed to my wrench or mollie's item), so shouldn't it have been held on to?

[Toogeloo]

Mollie, I am going to have to disagree with you on BBT. The whole back and forth regarding semantics of the way hiplop answered seems extremely forced to me.

I still lean townish on SM as well because of the way they handled the gun thing. If scum, tossing the gun seems kind of wasteful imo.

[Toogeloo]

can you plz explain to me what you mean by forced? cos I have been seeing that word used a lot lately to try justify a scumread and oi! its mostly been scum doing it lately.

Half of BBT's post count comes from arguing semantics over the use of Hippy's past tense verb usage. It's forced content to pick up his activity.

Usually when I use the word "forced" it's because someone is trying to look active by presenting a case and arguing something absolutely ridiculous, trying to shove it down our collective throats.
In essence, it means that the player can't generate actual content, so they try to "force" content.

[Toogeloo]

well it is pretty obvs that they thought the items stayed in the rooms so I dunno, scum having access to what room every1 is but what rooms had items do you think that might be why they thought that claiming items was a higher priority than claiming rooms. not to mention with them thinking the above on n0 they cld just fire the gun, claim some town cred for firing it, move to the gazebo and then come back to the courtyard to pick up the item again. sorry, but that is not a good enough reason to townread them IMO.

Not saying that Scum don't read rules, but I think not realizing that when items are used or dropped they go to a random location seems like more of a town mistake than a scum one.

[Toogeloo]

Why did you decide to hold the wrench?

It offered no intrinsic use on Night 0. I really didn't see the point in using it.

[Toogeloo]

I was in the Billiard room and used my item on the conservatory. My item forces someone who holds their item to drop it(poison) - decided to use it because obviously scum would try to hold their item to make a kill next night available.

Also, this makes no sense. Using items discards them, making them easier for scum to find and use. Holding items is the only true way to prevent scum from acquiring an item to kill with.

[Toogeloo]

UNVOTE: Schrodinger
VOTE: Toogeloo

I think that the fact that TitusVar hydra USED their item instead of HOLDING it on N0, means that hydra is town.
They probably aren't lying because that might be provable (need to check on this though).

Toog did hold to the item. Like scum would do.

This is horseshit. My item allowed me to move to any room I wanted and prevent actions from targeting me. I had no reason at all to want to use it N0. Town shouldn't be so willy nilly interested in tossing every item they get either. The Revolver is a prime example of a weapon that we should be holding on to if we have it. We shouldn't just be shooting players for the hell of it everytime a Townie gets the gun, or what about the possibility of Scum getting two kills because they can use the Revolver as intended and then another weapon for the Night Kill?

Scum don't even need to hold items, they could simply make kills the moment they pick something up I'd assume. They only time they'd probably need to hold on to something is if they aren't adjacent to someone to be killed and they can't teleport to someone, which seems a bit later in the game I'm guessing.

@MOD: Vote Counts may be incorrect, ISOing Shos, I don't see his vote changing from me.

~Fixed

I'm still not convinced of SM's scuminess mollie. I think the hydra dissonance is definitely causing a bit of miscommunication, but I think their overall tone seems quite townish, not to mention they fact that they didn't try to keep a scum-sided weapon.

[Toogeloo]

As of this post, I want to lynch one of bbt, gamma, or shos. Getting massive town or null-leaning-town vibes from most everyone else atm.

[Toogeloo]

You just realized that after literally posting a vote right after the vote count?

[Toogeloo]

@Toog: I think there's certainly something suspect in the whole mass item dropping/claimed item use. I don't know that it necessarily means you/shos is scum, but it's worth sussing out because it's a huge blindspot in interaction. Also, I don't remember you saying that the wrench made you immune to effects? So Shos probably wouldn't have figured that in when accusing you in 283. Unless you claimed that part earlier. As I said, don't recall. I should probably take game notes. :/

Talking it over, Toog, what was your item?

It was the Wrench. It allows the user to move to any room they wish, and any action used on them will miss.

From what I can tell, the reasons for all dropped items that have been claimed thus far have been accounted for.

[Toogeloo]

Are you saying I am lying?

I find it suspect that you didn't "know" you were putting SM in hammer range.

[Toogeloo]

Are you saying I am lying?

I find it suspect that you didn't "know" you were putting SM in hammer range.

What is suspect about it and why would I mention it?

The dismissive nature of it, as if you shouldn't be held accountable for any quickhammers.


Cheetos, do you have any opinions on SM or his wagon? I can't recall any of your contributions this game.

[Toogeloo]

Are you being intentionally obtuse?

[Toogeloo]

Holy christ V... my eyes.
Mollie, maybe I'm a sucker for AtE, but SM's not something I'm willing to lynch today. Egg on my face if I'm wrong, but I really don't think they are the right lynch for Day 1. I like their activity, I think they are getting a bit misrepped here and there, and I think apathy of several players, and likely scum sheeping, is allowing you to lead this wagon somewhat uncontested.

Toog, did I miss your reasoning for gamma scum?

Mostly lumped in because I didn't like the set of quick votes from shos, BBT, and he on Hiplop. Mostly gut, but there is a string of questionable posts I don't agree with either, so it's more of an igmeou thing, but something I wouldn't fight against if a wagon grew on him either.

[Toogeloo]

My Town, Null, and Scum Lynchpool currently... (roughly in this order)

T
pirate mollie
farside22
Schrödinger Mislynch (Titus and Varsoon)

N
Kmd4390
Cheetory6
hiplop

S
Gammagooey
shos
BlueBloodedToffee

[Toogeloo]

Whatever you do, don't touch shos Farside Toog kmd or Cheetory

I get why you have town reads on a few of those slots, but why Cheetory specifically? Dude hasn't done anything this game. KMD I might understand since maybe you can read him better than I can. shos I just have a hard time with, and I'd like to know why you think his slot is town?

[Toogeloo]

@shos

Does Poison take effect before any other item use? Why would you use it blindly, possibly hitting someone who has an item that could find find scum, like what if you had hit Mollie last night and she wouldn't have seen anyone in any of the adjoining rooms?

[Toogeloo]

I mean, I'm 3rd highest poster in game...What more do you want?

You realize that this is because you make lots of consecutive posts and argue circularly with people about inane things, right? From my standpoint, your post count doesn't reflect your impact in this game.

[Toogeloo]

@MOD (& game): Going ti be V/LA for the weekend. Taking the family to the lake for Labor Day weekend, my play will be limited until Monday Night.

-None of my feelings have changed on any slot since the last time I posted and I have no interest in changing my vote at this time. Please do not spam the thread while I'm gone, I can't guarantee that I will be able to keep up over the next 3 days and I really don't want to come home to 20+ pages to read.

[Toogeloo]

N0 night actions suggest, imo, that the schrodinger hydra is town

I sadly think the hydra is town

scum:
1. SM. I don't even need to explain by now.

[Toogeloo]

Unvote

BBT is obviously not going to get traction today. I agree with SM that the game seems to be stalling. I'll place my vote on pretty much anyone just so we can get info and the day over with if we need to, but I would still prefer someone from my lynch pool if at all possible.

Anyone have anything they wanna ask me, I should be able to answer questions over the next 24 hours since not much is going on and I will check in and out through out the day tomorrow.

[Toogeloo]

I need an up to date Vote Count and then reasons from people why they aren't voting (assuming there is more than just myself holding a vote at the moment), as well as who they would be voting for if they had to put a vote down. Last I remember, hippy and SM were the only two people with Votes, and in all honesty, the game has been circular arguing itself for probably the last dozen pages now. Someone (anyone) really needs to be lynched soon for the sanity of the game.

[Toogeloo]

Frozone, who are you? Did you replace someone? Do you have any scum reads?

[Toogeloo]

SM, I think you pretty much have to be lynched at this point. I still believe your night 0 actions suggest a town mentality, but you are a major distraction that we have to move past. The last 20ish pages have literally been nothing but banter dancing around your lynch.

Vote: ShrewdMissile

Literally, no matter what you flip will allow the game to move out of the rut it's currently in.

[Toogeloo]

Fuck...

Unvote

I feel like you shouldn't be lynched
There are so many other targets that really should die first, this rather sucks.

[Toogeloo]

I want to hear Frozone and BBT's votes. They shouldn't be sitting on them either, and I want to know where they would vote right now if they were the deciding votes.

[Toogeloo]

My conundrum is that my two other big town reads are both telling me to vote SM.

[Toogeloo]

Mollie, what's your opinion of SM moving to the Gazebo? Doesn't that seem like a town motivated move? He purposely dropped his weapon AND he moved to a location that has limited choices for potentially performing Night Kills. That seems like a lot of pressure to put on your partner to perform any Night 1 Actions.

[Toogeloo]

Prodge.

This post is like 2 and a half days after your last one. Please tell me you plan on contributing more soon, especially considering how important your vote is (can be) at the moment.

[Toogeloo]

For thw record, youve played well imo and id rather nl than you dead

No... not an option. You don't NO LYNCH on Day 1. We need information, regardless of where it comes from.

@kmd, frozone, toog, bbt.
On the hiplop n0 room "misunderstandong", what is your take?

It seems like such a stupid thing to lie about, especially given the started in the Fountain, which means the only place they could have moved to (without teleporting) would be the Courtyard.

god you guys are such fucking assholes

this was supposed to be a fun game and no stress. I don't give a shit what your alignment is y'all did not have to be assholes in this game.

yeah. I think you guys are taking it too far

also youre scum

When did you start scum reading Mollie?

[Toogeloo]

Really?

You've been lurking for the past 3+ days now waiting to ninja hammer?

[Toogeloo]

toog, hippy is not saying that about me he is saying that about sm

I guess I should have figured that out with the "you guys," though when I see a quote box, I always think the person is talking back the quoted player.

[Toogeloo]

The farside votes are terrible.

Vote: BBT

What you did at the end of the day yesterday, coupled with your god awful vote today, plus my earlier suspicions. It's gonna take one helluva case from shos to convince me to move my vote.

I was in the Drawing Room yesterday. I am holding any other information I may or may not have at the moment.

[Toogeloo]

!A movement error has been identified!

Is this going to screw up room claims?

[Toogeloo]

I had an item last night.

[Toogeloo]

Also, with 8 items and 12 rooms, I find it pretty weird that so many people didn't have items.

[Toogeloo]

Hey Toog,

You mean hammer someone who was making the game unplayable? FWIW, I was town reading SM when I hammered them.

Why is my vote bad and what earlier suspicions did you have?

Your vote is horrible because you don't seem to care about making cases, and apparently you seem to think it's ok to absolve yourself of any guilt in your actions.

And I was voting you for 90% of Day 1, and you should know why since you ducked out when you got any pressure at all, only to resurface to hammer a town read of mine. I mean I literally had my vote on you for almost the entire day and gave my reasons as to why I think you are scum, so either you didn't read the game at all, are completely oblivious, or are trying to make it look like I'm the one with the insubstantial content.

[Toogeloo]

Toog, why so sure BBT is scum?

I'm not

sure,

like I have proof or anything, but he's my biggest suspect based on activity since yesterday.

Current reads list:

Town
Farside
KMD
shos
gamma
Frozone
hiplop
BBT
Scum



I had the Revolver yesterday.

[Toogeloo]

I'm sorry guys, it's my birthday today, and on Tuesday I got Destiny: The Taken King, so my week has just been completely non-mafia related.

Shos, I need to know... you say you "think" hiplop had the wrench and committed the night kill. Is that more of a guess, or am I just confused by your wording?

[Toogeloo]

Well our lynch poop is over there, anyway. I tried to gauge reactions based on my reads but hiplop is not falling fpr it.

Nevermind, you were trying a gambit. So you have no incriminating evidence in regards to hiplop at all then I take it?

[Toogeloo]

Those who have no item: where were you yesterday, again?

Do we even know where Mollie was yesterday? Without that information, it seems impossible to be able to narrow down the suspects, right?

[Toogeloo]

^she died in the kitchen, and the first posts say that all actions resolve before moving to other rooms.

Ok, yeah, I just noticed that in the death reveal. For some reason it didn't register.

[Toogeloo]

far - dining room
sm - courtyard
toog - conservatory
me - library
cheetos - kitchen
gamma - drawing room
kmd - trophy room
bbt - carriage room
hippy - courtyard

So digging through p.m.'s iso, this is the only real collective location list I saw. shos never claimed his location afaik (I can't really remember and don't have the time to search), and hippy later amended his location to the Fountain. The only info that p.m. shared was that Cheeto and SM were truthful with their Night 0 starting locations because she saw them. She didn't mention seeing anyone else, but obviously mentioned not seeing hiplop.

Assuming hippy was telling the truth, he'd be the only person who couldn't have been in range of the kitchen on the first day (not knowing where shos started, and obviously discounting SM since they are dead). The only rooms someone could have started in and not been in range of the kitchen after one move were the Studio, Fountain, and Gazebo (I think). Everything other room could be adjacent in a single move.

Not sure if this helps in any way.

[Toogeloo]

I'm in the dining room now.

I'm also apparently forgetting to tell the mod that I wish to hold my items. I've been submitting my actions at night as "Toogeloo moves to <location>." The mod explained to me that I have to apparently specifically mention holding my items or they will be auto dropped.

[Toogeloo]

All I can say about the Wrench is that it's entirely circumstantial. I had the Revolver yesterday, so I couldn't have made a kill with a Wrench, but then again I guess I could be lying about that as well.

[Toogeloo]

I was also in the Drawing Room yesterday, which is too far from the Kitchen to perform a kill, but again... I could be lying I guess.

[Toogeloo]

Yeah, I am totally down with lynching Hiplop or BBT, so let's make it a 1v1(2?). Either lynch me, or we lynch hiplop/BBT. I'm flexible.

[Toogeloo]

To think I'm lying would mean that I planned out some elaborate lie about dropping my Wrench night 0, and then picking up the Revolver day 1, and lying about my room movements, which seems like a helluva lot of lying in order to perform the first kill of the game.

[Toogeloo]

This game is so fun and exciting!

/sarcasmoff

Unvote;
Vote: Hippy

Should put Hippy tied with me. Frozone, get your ass in here and do something constructive. You and shos need to vote (change votes) to either vote me or vote hippy. Let's go.

[Toogeloo]

Wait, nm. Forgot gamma and BBT changed their votes.

So, I guess we are all spread out, with hippy at 3 votes, myself at 2, and BBT, Farside, and Frozone at 1 each.

[Toogeloo]

It's elaborate because it's unnecessary.

There is zero motivation for me to lie about dropping my wrench night 0, lie about picking up a revolver day 1, and lying about moving to a room not adjacent to the kitchen simply to just keep the wrench and perform the night 1 kill. Yes, scum lie, but to think that I as scum would lie 3 about 3 separate things just to avoid taking responsibility for the Night 1 kill is a bit ridiculous considering I could have just not said anything about the Wrench at all on Day 1 and avoided all the crap that went along with it.

[Toogeloo]

You're missing the point. Why would I even say I had an item that I was forced to drop on Night 0 in the first place if I still in fact had said item? Stringing along lie after lie that doesn't need to be told in the first place.

[Toogeloo]

However,vote bbt.

It's less productive to split our votes. If I move back to BBT, then it's just a 3way tie for lynch (I think) with two votes a piece.

Why are you pushing me to change my vote, but you don't have as much drive to convince anyone else to move from hippy to BBT though?

[Toogeloo]

Going to be at Salt Lake Comic Con for the next few days. Something tells me that I won't fall too far behind on this game while I'm there.

[Toogeloo]

Unvote;
Vote: BBT

[Toogeloo]

Both scum are in here - Farside/Hiplop/Kmd.

Kmd is a non-presence in this game and that's worrying.

When did I stop being a scumread of yours?

[Toogeloo]

I think even the mod is in need of a prod >_>.

[Toogeloo]

Wait... those votes don't seem right in the least.

[Toogeloo]

I don't think I've ever voted gamma this game.

~Fixed!

[Toogeloo]

@BBT:

Both scum are in here - Farside/Hiplop/Kmd.

Kmd is a non-presence in this game and that's worrying.

When did I stop being a scumread of yours?

[Toogeloo]

Well, unless mod confirms to change the VC, someone is directing my vote to gamma for who knows what reason. It's only been 3 hours since I mentioned it, so who knows.

Also, shos, kmd has no votes. He is the first vote on hiplop however, so you might be looking at that and thinking he might be the wagon.

[Toogeloo]

I'm still alive, my wife checked my pulse personally.

There is nothing but useless back and forth banter going on at this point. Let's just all admit we are rolling dice here and hoping we get lucky because 80% of the player list doesn't give a shit anymore. Basically, the entirety of every case built on every player thus far has been nothing but speculation based on play, but let's be honest here... that 80% of players I just mentioned could have all the scum just hoping town shoots themselves in the foot, or on the other hand, the 20% of people actually posting (which to be quite honest has been mostly just activity posting and no real cases or arguments) could be scum trying to take the reigns of an apathetic town. At this point I don't care, and I think most people don't care.

The cases for pretty much everyone today have been weak, and most the rebuttals have been even weaker.

Someone calls hiplop scum because of his N0 room communication error. This is obviously a really weak case. But then most of his rebuttals have been, "nuh-uh, I'm town guyz!" Again, super weak response back.
Other people (including myself) say BBT is scum because of his posting, and the back and forth on this is something akin to:

Us: BBT is probably scum.
BBT: But I'm not.
Us: But you could be.
BBT: But I'm not.
Us: But you could be.

It's no fucking wonder this town is apathetic. I'm not ashamed to admit to being guilty of it too, but after reviewing the game in my head a bit more, I'm quite content in saying, I really don't know who is scum and it could quite literally be anyone, because no one here is really towning it up enough for me to draw any conclusions beyond gut. There are people I don't

think

are scum, but there is no way I will confidently stick my neck out and say they are town either.

I'm pretty sure that the game is going to be decided entirely by Night Actions at this point, and possibly town might finally form a couple blocs that they agree upon, but as of right now, I have no faith in that.

What I will say is that there are players that should definitely not be lynched

today

solely because they at least keep a consistent impact on the game, and that list for me is simply two names... shos and farside. I will vote for

anybody

that comes within hammer striking range, except for those two solely because I feel the motivation to continue playing rests solely on them staying alive and keeping active. If one of them is scum, then I'm hoping luck is on our side to have a Night Action prove it, because day play seems to be completely out the window at this point.

[Toogeloo]

TL:DR
I'm pretty much ready to get on with this day and lynch practically anyone and see if night actions turn over relevant (condemning/incriminating) information tomorrow, and hopefully we can actually get a pulse back into this game. As of right now I look at this game and just think to myself I'd rather be doing dishes and vacuuming the house because all ya'all are scummy in some way and I'm tired of reading the back and forths.

[Toogeloo]

Is it bad poise to request a replacement if a player has become bored with a game?

[Toogeloo]

Toog, here's an idea.

People explain why they're scum reading me. We have a discussion and people actually engage, everyone realises I am town and scum are sad because now I won't be lynched, and we start looking elsewhere. I am trying to engage people, I am trying to get myself involved in the game, but I'm being ignored/hand waved away.

If nobody wants to make people explain their thoughts/reads/reasoning then what else can I/we do?

You realize that at the moment I have a totem pole of all the players in the game, and for no other reason than I really don't like your play and find you suspicious for it for reasons I mentioned several times, you find yourself at the bottom. That being said, I stand by my assertion that I will indeed hammer pretty much anyone just to get this game to Night Phase and hopefully get some items used to give us actual direction with which to work with.

All we have for Night claims so far is Candlestick claiming visibility of cheet and SM on night 0 from the library, and the bloody wrench which shos had picked up and tried using to out info from hiplop.

The only thing I've been left scratching my head over with said night claims thus far is that Mollie didn't apparently see shos (or failed to mention it possibly) when she claimed Candlestick usage. She confirmed cheetory and SM I believe and that was it. However, if shos was only in range to use the Poison on the Library in the first place, why wouldn't she have seen him?

I like shos and hope he's not scum, and I certainly don't want to lynch him today considering "a movement error" occurred. So for now I go with where my totem pole of most liked to least liked leads me.

[Toogeloo]

Actually, you know what, fuck it.

I should have replaced out on D1.

Mod, replace me.

Is this more to avoid potentially getting lynched? If you replace out, then more than likely your replacement would get a reprieve I would suspect, and the next player on the list for most desired lynch by the majority would be hiplop.

[Toogeloo]

shos, serious question. Are you drunk?

In less than a page, you went from:

I have read about 10 pages and 3 isos and I am done thinking BBT shouls be pur lynch today.

to:

VOTE: gamma
Alrifht
I made up my mind

Please wagon on.

to:

I am inclined tobvote kmd for this.

...and then back to:

I want BBT dead for the hammer.

I really cannot believe this lynch went through. The ceiling shit was so pbvtowning. Has anyone else bothered to ask the mod, apart me?

The bbt slot has to die.

[Toogeloo]

What I don't get is that Frozone is technically a hydra. Cheet apparently was too busy to play by himself so he got someone to play with him, and yet there is no difference between frozone's and cheet's activity level.

I'd be ok with a Frozone lynch, but I feel it would be more of a policy lynch than an actual scum hunted one.

[Toogeloo]

UT. Do yourself a favor and read the game as you can. The game is pretty apathetic at the moment, and probably 15 pages worth of the game came from the player lynched on Day 1.

Currently, I want to lynch your slot due to the timing and nature of the replacement of your former.

[Toogeloo]

UT. Do yourself a favor and read the game as you can. The game is pretty apathetic at the moment, and probably 15 pages worth of the game came from the player lynched on Day 1.

Currently, I want to lynch your slot due to the timing and nature of the replacement of your former.

[Toogeloo]

EBWOP: Well, I wanted to lynch your slot prior to the replacement as well, but the replacement cemented my desire to lynch your slot.

[Toogeloo]

God this game is awful to try in

Vote: hiplop

That's why I figure the game is more likely to be settled by Night Actions at this point. When I can't even feel like I can trust a single person in this game, I've pretty much given up on the day game.

@hiplop - Deadline is in 10 hours, yo. You are pretty much the lynch for the day so deal with it, and I already expressed that I will gladly hammer anybody who reaches L-1.

Unvote;
Vote: hiplop

[Toogeloo]

God this game is awful to try in

Vote: hiplop

That's why I figure the game is more likely to be settled by Night Actions at this point. When I can't even feel like I can trust a single person in this game, I've pretty much given up on the day game.

@hiplop - Deadline is in 10 hours, yo. You are pretty much the lynch for the day so deal with it, and I already expressed that I will gladly hammer anybody who reaches L-1.

Unvote;
Vote: hiplop

[Toogeloo]

damn, my mouse is acting up again. Sorry for double posts.

[Toogeloo]

I am also in the Drawing Room. I had no item at the start of the Night Phase. KMD, did you use your Lead Pipe, and if so, on whom did you use it?

gamma was my vote going into today; I didn't like the delivery of his vote on hiplop. He seems like an odd nightkill because I think he would have easily been mislynch fodder

If I'm not mistaken, we are in MyLo, correct?


Analysis wise...
shos moved to the Kitchen and found the Wrench. gamma and frozone/MS wouldn't have found an item if they were itemless since only one item can be in a room at a time.
I'm assuming KMD moved to the Dining Room and found the Lead Pipe. I didn't find an item, so I'm assuming KMD picked up the Lead Pipe from the Dining Room.
Farside was claimed no item and in the Trophy Room.
BBT was claimed no item and in the Carriage House.

Having had the Revolver myself at one point, I do know that it can kill in any room with a 40% chance. Anyone other than BBT I believe was in range of the Kitchen. BBT *might* have been able to take the shot on a gamble, but why not just kill farside? So, here's the breakdown for me. I know that I didn't have the Revolver yesterday. I was forced to drop it when I moved to the Dining Room because I didn't specifically say I was going to hold on to it. I believe shos had the Wrench because of the claim that it had blood on it, and the way he went about questioning hiplop, therefore I don't believe Frozone/Metal had the Revolver since he couldn't have obtained it when shos picked up the item first. I also believe KMD has the lead pipe, because I didn't pick up anything when moving to the Dining Room, and I don't see any reason to lie about picking up the lead pipe. This leaves my pool of suspects to be either Farside or BBT that made the kill. Since I don't believe scum BBT risks shooting at 40% on the kitchen, I'm leaning voting Farside here.

Vote: Farside

[Toogeloo]

N0 had dagger heard shot and dropped it.
N1 no item

This is Farside's claimed item possessions. I doubt scum would claim to have had the murder item in their possession the night of the kill.

[Toogeloo]

As Far as I know, only shos and KMD claimed to have had items yesterday.

[Toogeloo]

Toog, I'm not saying you are wrong in doing so, but can you explain to me, because you pointed out LYLO, why you voted farside immediately and never considered no lynch considering we have an even number?

Honestly, the thought of a No Lynch never occurred to me. The amount of times I've no lynched in any game of mafia ever is less than 1. Farside is my process of elimination vote based on room placement and item claims, as well as the rules which state only one item per room.

[Toogeloo]

I thought you said you had the revolver day3

It's Day 3 now. KMD has the Revolver.

Toog, why so sure BBT is scum?

I'm not

sure,

like I have proof or anything, but he's my biggest suspect based on activity since yesterday.

Current reads list:

Town
Farside
KMD
shos
gamma
Frozone
hiplop
BBT
Scum



I had the Revolver yesterday.

What night was this?

Kmd: you said there are 4 bullets left?

That was said yesterday, Day 2.

N0 had dagger heard shot and dropped it.
N1 no item

This is Farside's claimed item possessions. I doubt scum would claim to have had the murder item in their possession the night of the kill.

Your claiming I was next to the room that had the player was murdered and I held my item which is not the revolver.

Metal asked me if you claimed to have the Revolver. I posted the last thing I remember you saying about your items, and then mentioned that whoever had the Revolver was not likely going to claim it. I am of course insinuating that I thought you had the revolver because my POE lead me to believe it was the case. KMD claiming to not have had an item last night and that his Lead Pipe was two Nights ago actually puts a hole in my POE, but I'm standing by my analysis at the moment anyways.

Farside, any updates on your reads?

I need to verify something but I thought sl said there was 5 bullets left and toog claimed to drop it but he never said why so I'm looking at him.

I did state why. For the first two nights, I was simply stating "I move to this location." I was assuming I was taking my item with me each time, but I never stated what I was doing with my item.

On Night 0, I dropped the Wrench, and moved from the Conservatory to the Drawing Room where I found the Revolver. I did not intentionally drop the Wrench, and for a time, I thought it was due to the Poison that it was dropped. Day 1, I had the Revolver in my possession with 5 Bullets in it. Night 1, I moved from the Drawing Room to the Dining Room, in the process dropping the Revolver, which I had no intention of dropping. The mod PM'd me and reminded me that if I did not specifically state I was holding items, that I would auto-drop them, which was what happened in both the case of the Wrench and the Revolver.

I had no item Day 2, and last night I moved from the Dining Room back to the Drawing Room. Everyone was congregated around the Kitchen, and my intention is to get as far from there as I can at the moment. I believe that since we are all moving in a tight area in the Kitchen Corner, items aren't getting shuffled very efficiently, and it's likely a lot of items are on the opposite side of the house that is not getting any traffic.

[Toogeloo]

I thought you said you had the revolver day3

It's Day 3 now. KMD has the Revolver.

Toog, why so sure BBT is scum?

I'm not

sure,

like I have proof or anything, but he's my biggest suspect based on activity since yesterday.

Current reads list:

Town
Farside
KMD
shos
gamma
Frozone
hiplop
BBT
Scum



I had the Revolver yesterday.

What night was this?

Kmd: you said there are 4 bullets left?

That was said yesterday, Day 2.

N0 had dagger heard shot and dropped it.
N1 no item

This is Farside's claimed item possessions. I doubt scum would claim to have had the murder item in their possession the night of the kill.

Your claiming I was next to the room that had the player was murdered and I held my item which is not the revolver.

Metal asked me if you claimed to have the Revolver. I posted the last thing I remember you saying about your items, and then mentioned that whoever had the Revolver was not likely going to claim it. I am of course insinuating that I thought you had the revolver because my POE lead me to believe it was the case. KMD claiming to not have had an item last night and that his Lead Pipe was two Nights ago actually puts a hole in my POE, but I'm standing by my analysis at the moment anyways.

Farside, any updates on your reads?

I need to verify something but I thought sl said there was 5 bullets left and toog claimed to drop it but he never said why so I'm looking at him.

I did state why. For the first two nights, I was simply stating "I move to this location." I was assuming I was taking my item with me each time, but I never stated what I was doing with my item.

On Night 0, I dropped the Wrench, and moved from the Conservatory to the Drawing Room where I found the Revolver. I did not intentionally drop the Wrench, and for a time, I thought it was due to the Poison that it was dropped. Day 1, I had the Revolver in my possession with 5 Bullets in it. Night 1, I moved from the Drawing Room to the Dining Room, in the process dropping the Revolver, which I had no intention of dropping. The mod PM'd me and reminded me that if I did not specifically state I was holding items, that I would auto-drop them, which was what happened in both the case of the Wrench and the Revolver.

I had no item Day 2, and last night I moved from the Dining Room back to the Drawing Room. Everyone was congregated around the Kitchen, and my intention is to get as far from there as I can at the moment. I believe that since we are all moving in a tight area in the Kitchen Corner, items aren't getting shuffled very efficiently, and it's likely a lot of items are on the opposite side of the house that is not getting any traffic.

[Toogeloo]

damn double post.

[Toogeloo]

I forgot to respond but he claimed day 1. He dropped the item do to a gun shot.
Found out that wasn't true and he forgot to send in hold and that did the same thing again night 1.
You seriously think anyone should buy that?

I thought it was the gun shot that caused me to drop it, we went over this.

I thought it was the gunshot, it wasn't.
Shos claimed to have used poison on me to drop it. That turned out to be false as well.
I dropped it simply because I didn't claim to actually hold on to it in my Night Action.

After complaining to the mod about the lack of visibility in the rules regarding that, he even amended the rules to make it more visible. I can't be the only person who was failing to actually clarify holding items.

Everyone is hanging around the Kitchen. No one has claimed to be in Fountain, Gazebo, Studio, Conservatory, or Billiard Room since Day 1 I believe. Since only one item can occupy one room at any given time, of course the items that are constantly being used or dropped are going to be found a lot more frequently. I drop the Revolver, it's got a greater likelihood of being refound almost instantly if everyone continues to stay in the same areas.

It's not rocket science. It's not as if the items are constantly in motion here.

[Toogeloo]

Shos, you realize that I heavily supported a BBT lynch yesterday, and hammered hiplop for 2 reasons... 1) We had less than 10 hours til deadline, and 2) I was bored of the day and stated that I would hammer ANY player that got to L-1.

His coincidebce with having both of the kill items is something i dpnt buy.

This is already easily explainable due to the limited areas we've covered in the house. No one has claimed to have found things like Rope or Horseshoe, and the last time the Candlestick was mentioned was Day 1. The reason why some items are turning up over and over is because rooms aren't being explored, and players are hovering around the same 5 areas, mostly around the kitchen.

Did you use the Wrench last night? I certainly hope so, because by your words, only scum would hold onto an item, right? And you finding the wrench doesn't make you confirmed in the least. Scum have a one use ability to obtain items, not to mention your partner could have made the kill and then you found it. Claiming it had blood on it could have been just town motivation because anyone who finds a murder weapon might be hinted that it was used to kill a player. These cases are all speculative.

Your vote for me is completely contrived too. Just say you are voting me on gut if that's what you feel is appropriate, but don't go on and say that scum were supporting a hiplop lynch and then vote me just because I hammered him.

[Toogeloo]

Slightly leaning Farside/shos scumteam all of a sudden. Both aren't even anywhere near trying to actually form an actual case and I think I'm an easy goat for final mislynch since two items I had were used for kills.

[Toogeloo]

Slightly leaning Farside/shos scumteam all of a sudden. Both aren't even anywhere near trying to actually form an actual case and I think I'm an easy goat for final mislynch since two items I had were used for kills.

[Toogeloo]

EBWOP: And their reasons for voting me are because of the kill items.

[Toogeloo]

EBWOP: And their reasons for voting me are because of the kill items.

[Toogeloo]

mannnn I want an item

An opinion on my farside case, farside and shos's case on me, and Metal and KMD's stances would be super, yo.

[Toogeloo]

And toog asking for knowledge on the wrench is scummy too.

You realize that if I were scum, I'd know whether you used the Wrench or not, because you likely wouldn't be anywhere near the Kitchen in all likelihood. Nice dodge though. Just trying to prove that a shitty case is a shitty case, like when you attempted to paint me as scum on Day 1 for attempting to hold the Wrench in the first place (since only scum would hold on to items ).

[Toogeloo]

I asked him if he used the Wrench, I don't know for sure, but if I were scum, I'd know simply because he'd probably end up in a room he wasn't adjacent to. He thinks I'm scummy for asking if he used the Wrench, when in reality, as scum I wouldn't need to likely ask.

[Toogeloo]

I feel like a No Lynch might not accomplish much here. KMD has the Revolver, did anyone mention any other item possibly having a kill effect? Is it possible for KMD to shoot the Revolver and a(nother) Scum to perform a Night Kill and automatically win the game? For all we know, MyLo/LyLo could be a lie in this setup. All I saw was that scum automatically win when their numbers equal the remaining town players.

[Toogeloo]

It says in the rules that regardless of what items are in possession, scum automatically wins when they hit even numbers to town.

Shos, considering I'm in the Drawing Room with KMD, and you are certain I am scum, wouldn't you be advocating KMD shooting me?

[Toogeloo]

In the event that there are equal number of town members and mafia members at day break, mafia will automatically win, regardless of what items are in possession.

[Toogeloo]

I'm betting it's specifically stated that way for setup purposes, and I really don't see it being changed tbqh due to the specific wording of it.

In all honesty, I think that's the way it should be all the time, even if it isn't. To go into a daybreak with even numbers on both sides, it'd be kind of screwed up to allow scum show their colors only to get fucked over because of potential unknown Night Actions the next evening.

I mean, what if you have a bulletproof townie and one only one scum left.

[Toogeloo]

KMD, if I am reading you correctly, you wish to lynch Metal, and barring that, you intend to shoot me (process of elimination), unless you are REALLY going for a gamble and attempting to put a chance on a 40% success rate with the gun and shoot elsewhere since I am the only person in range of your 100% success rate.

If this is correct, I don't like your plan one bit since my scum reads weren't mentioned by you as possible lynches, and I know that I am the only viable target for you to shoot.

[Toogeloo]

Wait, shos never confirmed his room I think. He might be in the Dining Room. If that's the case, I am fine with you shooting him >_>.

[Toogeloo]

I went to the drawing room

I am also in the Drawing Room.

I'm in the trophy room

i am now in the library

I'm in the carriage house

I didn't see shos room claim, which I assume is because he wants scum to not know whether he used the Wrench or not (which is stupid because scum know where everyone is).

[Toogeloo]

So unless shos moved from the Kitchen to the Dining Room, or used the Wrench to go to the Dining Room, Conservatory, or Courtyard, then I am the only person you can shoot with 100% accuracy.

[Toogeloo]

Toog, I'm not sure why you think I want to lynch Metal Sonic and shoot you considering I was voting Farside before the no lynch discussion.

I must have misinterpreted the end of this post...

Ok, so basically if we lynch someone, my shot gives us insurance in case of a mislynch. If we lynch scum, that's obviously great. No lynching actually leaves us less winning scenarios. Basically, we need to take the gamble now. But only if people trust that I'm town because if we mislynch, the game is in my hands. I've always been a "give me the ball at the end of the game, coach" kind of guy, so I'm more than willing to do it but you guys need to trust me for it to work. If that is the path we take, I need each and every person in this game to give me their best guess at a 2 person remaining scum team. We'll come up with a lynch. If they are scum, cool. If they are town, I need to shoot scum or the game is over.

Thoughts? Even you, UT.

Shos, I see you reached my conclusion already, yet you seem to be scumreading me. Are you sure you are comfortable with the plan you layed out which is essentially the same thing I just found?

Farside, I'm acknowledging that you already gave Toog/Metal as a team.

...as you lining up a Metal Sonic or I lynch. And the post itself basically states your interest in shooting someone if town were lynched today. Since I knew I was basically your only 100% sureshot, it got me riled.

I've had the flu since a day before my last post, and I haven't been feeling well. So am I to assume I misinterpreted your post?

If we lynch Farside today, am I your night kill target?

[Toogeloo]

Toog, I'm not sure why you think I want to lynch Metal Sonic and shoot you considering I was voting Farside before the no lynch discussion.

I must have misinterpreted the end of this post...

Ok, so basically if we lynch someone, my shot gives us insurance in case of a mislynch. If we lynch scum, that's obviously great. No lynching actually leaves us less winning scenarios. Basically, we need to take the gamble now. But only if people trust that I'm town because if we mislynch, the game is in my hands. I've always been a "give me the ball at the end of the game, coach" kind of guy, so I'm more than willing to do it but you guys need to trust me for it to work. If that is the path we take, I need each and every person in this game to give me their best guess at a 2 person remaining scum team. We'll come up with a lynch. If they are scum, cool. If they are town, I need to shoot scum or the game is over.

Thoughts? Even you, UT.

Shos, I see you reached my conclusion already, yet you seem to be scumreading me. Are you sure you are comfortable with the plan you layed out which is essentially the same thing I just found?

Farside, I'm acknowledging that you already gave Toog/Metal as a team.

...as you lining up a Metal Sonic or I lynch. And the post itself basically states your interest in shooting someone if town were lynched today. Since I knew I was basically your only 100% sureshot, it got me riled.

I've had the flu since a day before my last post, and I haven't been feeling well. So am I to assume I misinterpreted your post?

If we lynch Farside today, am I your night kill target?

[Toogeloo]

Toog, I'm not sure why you think I want to lynch Metal Sonic and shoot you considering I was voting Farside before the no lynch discussion.

I must have misinterpreted the end of this post...

Ok, so basically if we lynch someone, my shot gives us insurance in case of a mislynch. If we lynch scum, that's obviously great. No lynching actually leaves us less winning scenarios. Basically, we need to take the gamble now. But only if people trust that I'm town because if we mislynch, the game is in my hands. I've always been a "give me the ball at the end of the game, coach" kind of guy, so I'm more than willing to do it but you guys need to trust me for it to work. If that is the path we take, I need each and every person in this game to give me their best guess at a 2 person remaining scum team. We'll come up with a lynch. If they are scum, cool. If they are town, I need to shoot scum or the game is over.

Thoughts? Even you, UT.

Shos, I see you reached my conclusion already, yet you seem to be scumreading me. Are you sure you are comfortable with the plan you layed out which is essentially the same thing I just found?

Farside, I'm acknowledging that you already gave Toog/Metal as a team.

...as you lining up a Metal Sonic or I lynch. And the post itself basically states your interest in shooting someone if town were lynched today. Since I knew I was basically your only 100% sureshot, it got me riled.

I've had the flu since a day before my last post, and I haven't been feeling well. So am I to assume I misinterpreted your post?

If we lynch Farside today, am I your night kill target?

[Toogeloo]

wow...

...triple post is definitely a first for my mouse.

[Toogeloo]

Also... shos...

Your posts for the last two pages have flipped and flopped all over the place on reads. Who is your partner to farside at this point?

[Toogeloo]

Well, my vote is obvious. I took mollie's result as a guilty. The rest depends on Farside's alignment. If she's town, she also believed hiplop to be scum. In that case, UT probably lazysheeped as scum. Gamma saw the momentum swing and said fuck it. And toog's hammer doesn't say much about him. If farside is scum, she took advantage of my tunnel, UT's lazysheep could be either town or scum and Gamma/toog are still the same. What do you think?

What I don't understand is why you had so much faith in a Night 0 guilty when you've been hard defending me that scum wouldn't make gambits like claiming weapons that turned up for murdering players.

[Toogeloo]

So, if you flip town, KMD is likely going to shoot the revolver tonight. She can target me at 100% hit rate, or she can shoot someone else at 40% chance. If she kills town it's automatically game over. What are the odds scum don't have an item to kill with tonight regardless?

If Scumside had the only item in scum hands, her partner may not have an ability to kill tonight.

[Toogeloo]

I actually hate being scum. It stresses me out far more than being town does. I am very, very concise with my actions and strategies when playing scum, and having to change things probably gives me ulcers lol.

I assumed that I would be holding items when moving, which I'm guessing (still never got a hard confirm) is why I dropped the Wrench on Night 0. Cheet reobtained it and was responsible for the first kill (He had the rope Night 0 and killed Body too), while I obtained the Revolver after SM dropped it. Now knowing it was possible to use that as an excuse, I had intended to go that route, and had hoped people would assume as kmd did that scum wouldn't just claim items like that.

It was ALWAYS my intention to make sure that the Night Kills were the safest choices, in the most populated areas. I wanted to ensure that if people were following the rooms and where people were, that the kills couldn't ever really be narrowed down to a small group of people. In all honesty, I was never worried about players like Mollie or gamma, I just chose them because they were safe. The Kitchen was the Black Hole of the game, everyone seemed to converge near that room, so it was easy to keep killing there and never actually have more than 1 person be no where near it.

Mollie ended up dying on Night 1 because of her vocal nature. I always like to kill people who want to lead first, knock out the biggest voices in town so as to reduce the number of theories going out.
Gamma was killed Night 2 because he was the safest kill in the Kitchen. Since I had to do the kill, Farside and BBT/UT weren't on the table. I didn't want to kill kmd because it limited the amount of potential killers (in my eyes).
UT was killed on the final night solely because of safety. I didn't want to return to kmd and put myself back into 100% sure target range, and I was pretty sure shos still had the Wrench.

I assumed that kmd was going shoot one of myself or MS, and killing UT also set up a possible scenario where I/MS would autovote shos on the Final Day since we knew we confirmed kmd as town, and UT being next to shos would have incriminated him.


I tend to overthink a lot of the time, which is why I hate playing as scum lol. Give me a nice relaxing Town Vanilla role almost any day of the week /grin.

[Toogeloo]

I went a ahead and ran the numbers for the next round just to satisfy KMD.

KMD Dagger CY
Shos Nothing B
Toog Nothing CY
MS Leadpipe B

I want to ask Mafia here, what actions would they have picked, to see if they can pinpoint the correct strategy in this situation.

I would have likely used our power to summon an item and MS and I would have just pushed No Lynch. Then He would kill Shos with the Lead Pipe I would assume.

[Toogeloo]

If MS was dead, I would have pushed for a shos lynch and tried to convince kmd of his guilt.

[Toogeloo]

Yeah, lol.

If I'm anything, it's a mafiosi workhorse.

[Toogeloo]

I went a ahead and ran the numbers for the next round just to satisfy KMD.

KMD Dagger CY
Shos Nothing B
Toog Nothing CY
MS Leadpipe B

I want to ask Mafia here, what actions would they have picked, to see if they can pinpoint the correct strategy in this situation.

I would have likely used our power to summon an item and MS and I would have just pushed No Lynch. Then He would kill Shos with the Lead Pipe I would assume.

I'd use the lead pipe on Shos and Kill KMD with whatever item you conjure up. That guaranties that regardless of any item that they have, you'd still win. The lead pipe would block Shos if he had the dagger or gun.

Too many what if's though... what if KMD protects himself with the dagger? Wasted Night, back to square one the next day... game being decided eventually by who gets items that turn the game in favor. There's no real right answer to that solution, which is why when it gets to even numbers, it's unfair for scum to continue play

[Toogeloo]

What did the Horseshoe do anyways?

[Toogeloo]

The dagger cannot protect itself.

AH, then yeah, it would have been the correct play to Lead Pipe you and kill KMD.

After dwelling on it today though, I honestly think that if we had to do a final 4 showdown day, I would have bussed Metal into the ground so fast. First vote right after day start. Since a failed shot doesn't clear kmd, I would attempt to buy town cred immediately and then try to kill kmd that night probably. If we STILL have a day phase at 1v1, I'd just throw my hands in the air lol.

[Toogeloo]

The dagger cannot protect itself.

AH, then yeah, it would have been the correct play to Lead Pipe you and kill KMD.

After dwelling on it today though, I honestly think that if we had to do a final 4 showdown day, I would have bussed Metal into the ground so fast. First vote right after day start. Since a failed shot doesn't clear kmd, I would attempt to buy town cred immediately and then try to kill kmd that night probably. If we STILL have a day phase at 1v1, I'd just throw my hands in the air lol.

[Toogeloo]

EBWOP: The buying Town Cred thing would solely be because it would prevent me (hopefully) from being shot and maybe give me a protection from dagger.

[Toogeloo]

Town's biggest problem this game, which really, really, helped the scum team out, is that they all seemed to converge in the same area instead of spread out. It made it so they rarely got items, and were always near a scum for killing. I think SM actually had the right idea in mind when they went to the Gazebo. After Day 1 room claims, people should have been looking for distance instead of moving closer to the action.

shos should have moved back to the Billiard room.
bbt should have moved to the fountain or gazebo.

I don't know what it was about the kitchen, but everyone gravitated there, and it made it so less items were being picked up and therefore less tools for town to use. Granted, Cheet/Fro/Metal never got an item after Day 1 until they picked up the Lead Pipe after the game ended, but scum have those abilities in order to get items. Town should have been planning moves during the day to cover more ground and spread out more.