Mini 1729 - History Mafia II END

[Sir Bastion]

VOTE: BeardedCat

lets see what happens to the other head if we hang one?

FOR SCIENCE!

[Sir Bastion]

I prefer toot toot sonic warrior myself

[Sir Bastion]

Why are you smiling?

[Sir Bastion]

WolfTit, what about Bella looks the most awkward of the intro posts to you?

It just seems awkward and forced. Hard to describe.

As a side note, this KT, dwlee thing doesn't do much for me reads wise on either of them.

~SW

If you have nothing to say about them then why are you saying something?

@Beardedcat: Your cases are not all going to draw from meta are they?

[Sir Bastion]

*headache*

so much noise this game...

[Sir Bastion]

metal sonic

[Sir Bastion]

Hey scorpious remember me? What are you getting out of questions like 38 and 79? Are you going to ask everyone else too?

KISS method.. If this game continues on it's current track, that might be the only logical thing I can think of asking..

The current theme is sex amongst 11 year-olds.. and bewbs,with occasional quips about a mafia game..

@Everyone

How do you feel about people that just talk utter nonsense at the onset of a game? Do you feel it's just that? Or do you feel there is something more there?

I had thought that nonesense talk usually ends around the first VC, but beardedcat's response makes me feel like there has been a big shift in the meta since I was last playing Mafia, and I'm sitting here looking at napkins with a quizzical look on my face.

Not a good place to start day 1.

If I was the rate the noise level based not onwho was being noisy by interaction (quipping back and forth) but who is being noisy for the sake of being noisy (quipping away with little actual back and forth jumping topic to topic) I'd say Metal Sonic is at the top of the list. But I dont know if thats cause their avatar just make them naturally sound noisier because I imagine a high pitched anime dub with every sentence

screw it

VOTE: Metal Sonic

poke away

Edit: Oh God I just remembered why Hydras give me a headache.

[Sir Bastion]

Spiffeh also a hydra?

[Sir Bastion]

Sir Bastion, I understand where you're coming from with the amount of noise in this game, it is giving me headaches (though it is my first theme game.) I'm not so sure about your vote though. Metal Anime Sonic's only null to me. He hasn't done anything at all that can be read, but yes I agree he's not helping much either. Is this the only reason why you're voting him? It's decent enough I guess for Day 1 and helps to get things moving. I don't think I will put my vote there quite yet though.

I cant really get any more reasons til it sobers out and starts contributing.

[Sir Bastion]

Scorp! You changed your avvie. I am pretty confident I can sort you, so come connect with me - who's town?

I did .. Garrus rules!!

I'm leaning town on BeardedCat and Metal Sonic,but that's really all I got right now. I think the DW/KT thing should be explored in more depth. I feel right now its the least graspy at straws line at this moment. Do you agree?

172: I worded it wrong. They said one of us should be scum. At page 7 there isn't enough evidence to say one of two people are scum. Probability wise it's unlikely.

worded it wrong? I never buy into that excuse.. You make it sound like someone having a scumread on page 7 is absolutely ludicrous.. It isn't. Especially for some of the better players here(not me).

I was going to vote you based on this until KT posted that garbage above me..

right now,I'm looking at one of you two for my vote..

UNVOTE: Rory

I dislike both these posts

VOTE: Sorpious

[Sir Bastion]

@scorpious they are bad posts you are strongly advocating 2 wagons yet you don't seem to be doing anything about them. You are reaching out to other players to focus on the wagon but you are not actually doing anything about them. I don't like that. If you are going to push one of two wagons then push one of them. What are you waiting around for. JUST DO IT!

so we got some people claiming to be preteens Whoopi. Remember everybody lies on the Internet. So I don't care if he's 11 or 69 his posting needs improvement

[Sir Bastion]

@scorpious they are bad posts you are strongly advocating 2 wagons yet you don't seem to be doing anything about them. You are reaching out to other players to focus on the wagon but you are not actually doing anything about them. I don't like that. If you are going to push one of two wagons then push one of them. What are you waiting around for. JUST DO IT!

so we got some people claiming to be preteens Whoopi. Remember everybody lies on the Internet. So I don't care if he's 11 or 69 his posting needs improvement

what do we have? 10 days? Why are you in such a hurry?

Why are you turning this into a matter of time?

Its not a matter of time, its either Doing something or sitting around talking about doing something and doing nothing.

Doing something = results

Talking about doing something and doing nothing = nothing.

[Sir Bastion]

I feel one if not both of them are scum..

And thats whats p*ssing me off, you seem very sure you are on to something and you said yourself we have plenty of time. But you dont push. You just keep pointing One of these pople are scummy and do nothing.

gummybear has done more then you to give us an idea of the sort of player Creeper is and all he did was vote for him, that's all.

[Sir Bastion]

And thats whats p*ssing me off, you seem very sure you are on to something and you said yourself we have plenty of time. But you dont push. You just keep pointing One of these pople are scummy and do nothing

my scum reads rn are

Dwlee and Metal Sonic

@Bastion-Can you please point me to the posts where you got "pissed off" at KT for doing the same thing you are accusing me of? I missed those..

he said this and ended voting me.. does it pique you at all?

Look at the vote count before post 140 and the one after post 140

[Sir Bastion]

Yea, he's 11.

What's your hypixel account?

[Sir Bastion]

Yea, he's 11.

What's your hypixel account?

Dwlee99. I'm probably not going to play anymore games on there anymore, though. Aeronaeous (Mitochondria) told me that some people on here know about his hypixel account. (He refuses to tell anyone the name of his mafia scum account, though :/)

thats ok, I was just wondering how you were able to so conveniantly pull out a screengrab showing everyone kt was 11

also why is it a screengrab and not just a link? Was this brought up in a previous game?

[Sir Bastion]

those were the first posts from MS that I actually understood


I think

disagree with the logic

but I understood the intent

[Sir Bastion]

Creeper I said this with the most honourable of intentions for town

SHUT UP!

give other players a bit of goddamn room.

[Sir Bastion]

Creeper I said this with the most honourable of intentions for town

SHUT UP!

give other players a bit of goddamn room.

Hey there, anything else to offer?

Right now? Well I'm waiting for creeper to stop picking at scorpious like a rampant woodpecker to see what he does with a bit of room.


aside from that it's needle approach, dont know anyone well enough to consider trying to form a bloc and even if I did I dont believe in super blocs.


@Creeper

"Dear sir, your actions are proving very counter productive to the information gathering process of the individuals of this town, we please ask that you desist defecating on a regular basis on each and every page of this fine day just long enough so that information may present itself to those who wish to know the truth at the rotten core of this. Refusal to consider this request may lead to questions being asked as to why one as yourself keeps interfering with irrelevent information which in the end could be counter productive to your current state as a living person"

[Sir Bastion]

...did that really just happen?

[Sir Bastion]

So nobody else noticed the skirt?

Scorpious is incredibly scummy because he is hiding behind a skirt made up of KTcreeper and Dwlee99

I mean come on page 18 is a thing of beauty. Just look at it, Scorpious is clearly goading creeper to continue picking at him and when I tell creeper to shut up and go away Scorpious straight away shuts up too, but he's not gone cause he pops up again when Dwlee posts, but if neither of them are around, goodbye Scorpious.

So lets run this down.

Scorpious thinks dwlee and creeper are scum (at least one of them) he's named them both his top scum reads, he encourages other players to look at them.

But

He has never voted for either and his interaction with them (which makes up just under a 3rd of this game btw) is mostly fluff, oh he asks questions here and there but he never builds on anything he never shifts based on responses or ups the ante. There's no pressure just a lot (and I mean a lot) of noise.


Consider in contrast gummybear who puts pressure on creeper in his 3rd and 4th post, he votes and then reminds creeper he's on L3. I think from creeper's response to that we got more information out of him then from scorpious's 50 posts where he has applied 0 pressure.

I mean for god sake I ask what is the point if you are scumhunting in telling a player (who you think is scum) that you are just going to treat them like they dont exist? Thats intentional antagonizing of a player who has been shown to be immature not for information but for noise, a skirt to hide behind.


That rings alarm bells for me and I could look at this 2 ways, either Scorpious is trying to look active without actually doing any scumhunting or Creeper's and Dwlee's response was so over the top that he's afraid of looking like he's OMGUS on one of them if he votes.

Both are scum oriented thinking.

As far as we know he still has both of them as his top scum suspects (his last post is highlighting creeper is not new) but wont vote either even though we've seen how voting affects Creeper. He does not seem to be building any sort of case or line of thinking with them and frankly the fact that he appears to vanish when they are not around really bugs me.

[Sir Bastion]

Well if you did something...

[Sir Bastion]

In response to 512

You have a habit of ignoring context. You didthsi too the last rare occasion you tried to gotcha post.

Post 1 was at a point creeper wouldn't shut up while you were active posting

Post 2 was my deduction based on the observation of when creeper went away you did too...which came after post 1. I wanted to talk to you. I wanted to see you put forward a case or an idea or observation. But every post you made was either excusing yourself or getting into irrelevant bickers with creeper. Creeper shuts up and so did you. You may see I made a post of disbelief after the vc because it was clear despite creeper shutting up you had nothing to say.

Which leads to revaluations and the notion that you were using creeper as a skirt. You got into lengthy pointless disputes with him to give the illusion of activity



As for the length of my posts getting longer it's because the intent has changed. Early posts was flagging with notice. I said I didn't like certain things I watched to see if you contested my observation or improved your play or honestly showed simple effort.

But after page 18 this is no longer flagging. This is no longer for you its for the rest of the game to prsent to other players the case of you and creeper and ask why we're you letting that line of posting why you haven't acted in response to the drival by means that would have ended it. Why does it read like a pantomine and ask them...do you think there is scum intent behind these actions?

[Sir Bastion]

Curious to what was off on the timing?

I mean I'm still trying to grasp why anything about my case looks opportunistic about it which seems to be scorpious's counter. But I'd be curious what about my timing has bugged you.


'
@scorpious let's get a really simple question out of the way. Why are you refraining from voting?

[Sir Bastion]

I'm happy with the other questions I asked being up there. Come at me with questions too.

you've marathoned read the game...now where do you want to push?

Or more appropriately why have you not pushed something?

It's becoming a theme of mine it seems.

can I add I find Bellaphant/aristophanes/errantparabola oddly similar names so I'm getting the three of you mixed up.

just me I guess

Right now Scorpious actually voting is neither scummy nor towny it was pretty much what he had to do at that point any other action would have been a call for the noose. So I'm staying where I am voting wise to see if he follows up or is hoping his wagon looses interest. (hint I'm openly saying this cause I want him to follow up)

In the meantime I'd like to hear where Bella wants to go.

For the game overall I'm fine with the pressure on scorpious even if 2 of the players (ktcreeper, Dwlee99) are sort of on the wagon for different reasons and I dont agree with those reasons, it's more two wagons merged into one and that second wagon is trailing me, I'll get off if it takes over. Even though Gummy followed me on I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt based on the quality of his (few) posts

The Beardedcat wagon I like it (for now) if I understand it correctly. I also understand the ultimatum put forward by MS has not been met, so I look forward to the bounty we can possibly reap. If we can understand it, again there is a lot riding on MS and the 2 hydras history with each other, that always makes things difficult but it'll settle in time. But even without the history, when I iso'd bearded I didnt realise how much of the more recent posts are all from 1 head so I'd like to hear the 2nd head chime in.

Creeper wagon is 1 person who needed to vote and 1 from very long ago. I'll be curious if this vote will shift when the 2nd head returns


dwlee's wagon (Aristo) is VLA til monday (see his sig) and it's an old vote, I'd be curious if he's still in favour of that with how much things have moved on

Rory's vote on aristo is fine with me, he gave reasons. It's a bit old but Aristo hasnt been around, so I'd like to see that picked up again by both sides when they show up after the weekend. But I'd expect *both* sides to pick up on it

Errant has points on Rory I'd expect to be answered but I do have questions for her on her KT vs Dwlee read especially her noting how kt shifted it into a us vs scorpious debate, Do you feel Dwlee has come to KT's defence more this game then actually pushing him?

Please consider the following posts and the effect they may have had on the thought process of other players (212 and 459

[Sir Bastion]

I'll catch up in the next day (or 2 thats a lot of pages that appeared today) but quickly so I have answers to these when I catch up.

I mean come on page 18 is a thing of beauty. Just look at it, Scorpious is clearly goading creeper to continue picking at him and when

I tell creeper to shut up and go away Scorpious straight away shuts up too

, but he's not gone cause he pops up again when Dwlee posts, but if neither of them are around, goodbye Scorpious.

I mean for god sake I ask what is the point if you are scumhunting in telling a player (who you think is scum) that you are just going to treat them like they dont exist? Thats intentional antagonizing of a player who has been shown to be immature not for information but for noise, a skirt to hide behind.

I think you're misrepping Scorpious pretty hard here.

Scorpious was clearly trying to disengage from KT - I feel he made this abundantly clear. Yes, he was rude and he could have phrased it in a better way, but he quite clearly did not want to engage with KT. I really don't understand the bold either, if Scorpious was so obviously goading KT why would he not just continue even though you asked KT to shut up? Like, you would want Scorpious to stop as well...right?

I'm not sure I follow fully, but let me ask you if you think I intentionally misrepped?


To answer as best as I can, I dont think Scorpious was trying to disengage from KT at all, you dont disengage with back and forth biting posts, you shut it down with an answer and if they are not satisfied you let them tire themselves out, it's not really your issue anymore it's up to the rest of town to judge their case and your response and its only if the town start backing his case despite your response do you need to come back to it, otherwise why bother? They didnt like your answer and are just repeating themselves. Such things have happened with other players in this game and you can argue scorpious attitude to answering other players fits that playstyle but not his creeper interactions.

Unless you thought KT was bringing anything new with his snapping posts for Scorpious to address then there was no reason to keep up a very repetitive back and forth.

As for the bolded part, I clearly stated before hand in a number of posts, including one just before telling creeper to shut up that I was waiting for Scorpious to be pro active, when creeper went away that was an opportunity for Scorpious to clear some air on the wider game from his perspective, perhaps present his case why creeper was still scum despite the whole age revelation etc, instead once he no longer needed to argue with creeper he stopped posting, despite clearly still being active as he does post less then a hour later to repeat his *i'm ignoring Creeper routine to Dwlee.

[Sir Bastion]

do you two want a room?

(Will give a proper catch up post this evening...I hope...Halo 5 is calling me)

[Sir Bastion]

BC the bad case was the meta case right?

sorry I've been absent

but I honestly struggled with the whole COTW MS BC triangle so I am partially glad for the replacement as it might mean a bit of a clean slate to read from.


As for the scorpious KT and DW triangle I've gone through the whole one player using another as a shield and am just convinced it's a all a pantomine act and all 3 of them are the scum team together as I cannot fanthom any reason to let so much drama spill out into a game. Especially one where nothing is in real time.

Right now though I just want BC to confirm that the case he's talking about is the meta one or is there anothr bad sw case?

[Sir Bastion]

LOL BASTION. You wish. So do I tbh, but nope hahahahahahahahahah.

did I hit somewhere close to home?

you are laughing but there is a bead of sweat running down your cheek

[Sir Bastion]

Bastion and Dwlee, can I get your thoughts on CotW and my case please?

~BBT

Case is weak, you answered him solidly but I didnt see the need to follow up and you showed little to no interest in following up in the post, you firmly put the issue on SW's side and it was his call to pick it up or drop the issue. It does look like he dropped it as it was 1 of multiple points he raised in that post against other players and your other head and COTW interacted plenty post the issue for it to look settled. If SW was using it to drive a wagon or to keep suspicion on you I'd agree but as far as I can see he's not.


His reaction to you bringing it back up though is a bit of an over reaction though. It's not the first time this game that your BBT head has pulled discussions and issues from the ether of the past back to the forefront after your other head has led the conversation elsewhere, you pretty much did it with me, so I dont see why he needs to call scum and instead settle the issue and decide if it's worth kicking back to you or not.

Frankly I do find you to be one of the odder hydras I've encountered as it is really obvious when head 1 is talking and when head 2 is talking cause head 1 is tea drinking, biscuit eating friendly, a head 2 is a kick to the nuts every few days.

[Sir Bastion]

Case is weak, you answered him solidly but I didnt see the need to follow up and you showed little to no interest in following up in the post, you firmly put the issue on SW's side and it was his call to pick it up or drop the issue. It does look like he dropped it as it was 1 of multiple points he raised in that post against other players and your other head and COTW interacted plenty post the issue for it to look settled. If SW was using it to drive a wagon or to keep suspicion on you I'd agree but as far as I can see he's not.

His reaction to you bringing it back up though is a bit of an over reaction though. It's not the first time this game that your BBT head has pulled discussions and issues from the ether of the past back to the forefront after your other head has led the conversation elsewhere, you pretty much did it with me, so I dont see why he needs to call scum and instead settle the issue and decide if it's worth kicking back to you or not.

Frankly I do find you to be one of the odder hydras I've encountered as it is really obvious when head 1 is talking and when head 2 is talking cause head 1 is tea drinking, biscuit eating friendly, a head 2 is a kick to the nuts every few days.

OK, I'm disappointed I won't be getting your support in the lynch of CotW. Can you clarify why you think my case is weak?

Do you think SW's case on me held merit? What do you suppose their motivation was for presenting a half-assed case and then backing off so quickly? It was scum trying to push a case to get us lynched, when they realised it wasn't going to work, they wanted to avoid us and hope the issue went away entirely. Unfortunately for them, they picked the wrong person to try and lynch.

Frankly it was a meta case so I didnt really have the willpower to open 5+ of your pass games and compare them, so I judged on your confidence in response which tells me their case was likely going nowhere. But I put little faith in meta tactics as the point of mafia is to convince other players someone is scum, you are not going to do that by asking everybody to read multiple other games. Meta only works if you convince people without doubt you are town and you use that cred to strong arm everyone into line. COTW has not done that with me, neither have any of the other meta claims this game because I'm a suspicous old bastard.

SW left their read in limbo, town don't do that. As far as anyone in the thread knew, they were still scum reading our slot but avoided engaging with me - where is the town motivation for that?

Its a null tell. Town leave reads in limbo all the time and again if the post in question was purely and entirely about you then it would be suspect. But it wasnt his post covered 3 players. It is perfectly reasonable for a town player to poke multiple suspicions and thoughts in a single post but really only commit to the one that bares fruit, it is equally reasonable for a scum player to do that so it's a null tell.

Here are the actions; they presented a weak case on me, I responded to show their case was weak, they avoided engaging with me about it but still claimed that they're read on our slot had not changed. They shut down discussion and refused to reevaluate - that's scummy. Where is the town motivation in any of it?
~BBT

Again you are isolating 1 part of a larger post directed at multiple players. If he did not follow up on Spiffah or MS as well he's clearly fishing for support, but he has clearly kept on Spiffah and the MS read was ruined because the perverted idiot went and got banned.

Actually I just remembered

One of your townreads has actually done this exact same dance in this game


283

responded in 299

never picked up again.



Like I said it's a null tell

And bastion, you're so funny. Claiming to know the entire scum team on D1 with no flips or anything. Makes me want to lynch you.
Your entire case is "They are all interacting with each other and causing drama they must be scum" that makes no sense and it's so funny.

You probably will have to lynch me cause if you nightkill me I imagine everyone will be thinking the same thing

[Sir Bastion]

@Bastion..

Let's take a trip outside of your bubble.. Other than the 3 of us,ME mainly,who you've seemed to tunnel since the beginning..

Who else pings you?

few weak ones

BC because his heads are so far out of sync it's either blatant town or deliberate to slow the game down by having BBC come in bucking every few pages.

MS had always bugged me throughout the game and only made 1 post in my opinion that made sense, but thats replaced out so I'm watching Montana to see where he goes

I didnt like Bella excusing of joining your wagon based on the people if she thought you were scum 830 is also one of those posts where they expect the wagon to flip town and want to look good for the re-read.

[Sir Bastion]

On phone

BC if you still wish for me to address your questions re you and cotw I will if you ask but I'd like to pick this up first

Sorry, on a London trip atm so access will be limited.

Given the impending deadline, I will try to get some thoughts out by tomorrow.

I have read MS iso, and up to page 20, and trying to keep up with the present.

For now, i will place this vote

VOTE: Scorpious

Was initially suspicious of KT, but the way their interaction went on, that shifted over on scorp.

Nice.. you come back just to vote a Vanilla townie.. Great play..

I may have missed this earlier but did you just pre emptive claimed?
Even with montana's vote you are not at L1 I think you are L3 but now l4 with Dwlee bizarre jump

Why did you feel you needed to claim now? Pre emotive claiming never sits right for me. Even if you are town it only helps scum.

I mean montana's vote was bad for someone who hasn't caught up to jump on the leading wagon but did it need you telling us all your role?

[Sir Bastion]

I mean montana's vote was bad for someone who hasn't caught up to jump on the leading wagon but did it need you telling us all your role?

I did a loooong time ago..

I have to deal with children..Then the adults can't think for themselves.. You guys are supposed to be good at this..I'm VTDo what you want.. :/

Which begs the question.. Are you just skimming?

So you did.

Well oops that was my bad I should have pushed on that ages ago, which is shame maybe we might have avoided the wall of BC and MS if I did.

issue still stands, why did you claim pre-emptively. Even then you were not on L-1 back then.

Are you skimming, Bastion? *lenny face*

*Dr Hibbert laugh* (reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbyEuLX5oyQ)

I try not to but some posts do have me glaze over and note to go back and reread.

though the earlier VT claim was something I sorely missed and kicking myself as it may require me rereading some changes in attitude post the claim.

[Sir Bastion]

*Dr Hibbert laugh* (reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbyEuLX5oyQ)

I really hate that you have to reference your Simpsons reference.. oh well.. such is life

any excuse to watch 10 hours of simpsons

[Sir Bastion]

how about mine.

why did you claim VT without being at L-1 why did you feel you needed to do it at L-3 (I think)

[Sir Bastion]

@scorp simple question

Why did you wait almost half the day to respond?

and I dont mean that you voted me, but you took half the day to actually address the post content itself?

[Sir Bastion]

@Sir Bastion who do you think is scum other than Scorpious because you've really put a lot of focus onto him this whole day which leaves me wondering where your head is at regarding everyone else

I gave some thoughts just on the page before this one in 939

I'm not pushing a beardedcat lynch as I'm applying my patented thor policy to them and to the COTW hydra. If I explain that policy on day 1 it will be pointless but if I need to enforce it I will on day 2 I will try to.

I'm ok with a Tony flip after scorp because I think it will make it will be partially informative, as much as it would be possible from MS's posts and interactions on day 1.

A bellaphant flip would probably be the least informative of the three so while I dislike a few of their posts I'd rather lynch others over them.

Also a scorp or Tony flip would go further in settling certain doubts and dramas of day 1 giving us a hopefully clearer day 2 over bella.


On the other spectrum, despite being on the same level as me in posting I still feel comfortable with gummybear's posting. Rory is an unknown mostly, Errantparabolia is one of those players I think could be a strong town asset but he's not really come into the game, he has oddly made noise about being included but he seems to be of the position of insisting others pull him in see 597 and 846 he has really only done one big push, but I cant complain I've only done one myself, but he has picked up and answered questions when directed to him. So i feel like he's a player I could easily flip on from post to post as he could be a strong asset but just as much a very good scum player going under the radar.

Aside from that I never felt Aristophanes ever caught up, he did ask questions of me about issues that were explained/resolved a few pages after the point he said he was at and I get the feeling from his posts that he ever really caught up, again I cant 100% hold it against him I think I had a solid read on the game til around page 30, but as highlighted earlier I missed a key post so I'm questioning my grip and I know post page 30 I really struggle outside of BC and COTW butting heads.

That leaves you and the trio of misfortune. I hadnt realised your ISO had grown so big so I'll have to give you a raincheck as I do need to re-read you.

The trio of misfortune, you know where I stand with Scorp as for creeper and Dwlee there is something going on and I'm terrified that it's something important and because they are essentially kids they are mishandling it completely and town may suffer for it.

I think that's all I have the energy for tonight. I rather get myself posting shorter posts (and reading them too) in future. *zzzz*

[Sir Bastion]

What would be the point of a gender cop?? o.O

a bit of history to help with history, Nexus used a gender cop in the previous history mafia game:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p4298672

though I believe it is not the same in this game so dont use it as a bible for the roles I have a feeling there is a trick.

I think I have a grasp of whats going on so I have 1 question

@Beardedcat

do you have boobs?

[Sir Bastion]

next question I have is with a no limit gender cop already confirmed does this power feel like a town power or a scum power to you BC?

[Sir Bastion]

next question I have is with a no limit gender cop already confirmed does this power feel like a town power or a scum power to you BC?

i think the gender cop is town because they flipped town.

if you mean the vote thief it seems like a scum role because it seems like a transparent way to attack the noisiest slots who were throwing their weight around the most yesterday: CotW and us.

Setup spec isn't either of our specialities, so I don't know if gender cop makes vote thief more or less likely to be a town role.

--P

yeah I meant the vote thief

That's all I need to know for now, I'm going to reread some details from day 1 and will be back later with a case to push hopefully.

[Sir Bastion]

Bastion, why are you asking that of BC? It's essentially asking for a flavourclaim, isn't it? How do you think finding out BC's gender specifically would help in any way?

because I had a suspicion and BC pretty much confirmed it, I didnt answer you cause I didnt want to turn it into a discussion prior to BC answering, I wanted to see as much how they answered as much as the answer itself.

[Sir Bastion]

VLA until monday lunch time there abouts


Really sorry but I've been called into work this weekend due to it being a crunch period and the production is behind so its overtime to get the film on time.

So will be too distracted and exhausted to post. Really sorry.

[Sir Bastion]

Sorry guys just saw the prod.

I dont have any good excuses for today. I've left this linger far too long for my own good and for the good of the town.

VOTE: starbuck

i dislike the "showing you are catching up" by listing out thoughts on the early game and promising more later on is just information and padding, it's just there to show you are being a good replacement and doing your bit to catch up.


Contrast and compare to Pignash who while wrong and his case post a bit too selective on the quotes for my liking is straight into scumhunting. Not saying he's town but its how one should replace in to a game. Stick your neck out and get in someones face.

That's all for now.

[Sir Bastion]

Just checked and yes she does.

OK

VOTE: unvote

Don't get why people do that personally I never do a big series of catchup posts when I replace in and I do find them not particularly helpful from a town perspective. But each their own

Hmm

[Sir Bastion]

Just checked and yes she does.

OK

VOTE: unvote

Don't get why people do that personally I never do a big series of catchup posts when I replace in and I do find them not particularly helpful from a town perspective.

But each their own

Hmm

Why don't you find them helpful? I think it's great from a town perspective because here I am coming in with a fresh set of eyes and looking at everything that has gone before. I might pick something out that the rest of my town missed, or be able to expound on a pattern that I see. Are you really being that elitist that you deem my way of catching up as scummy

before I even get to the end?

All of the above is very true

none of it requires multiple long play by play posts rethreading the game.

Thats the issue I have, its a big info dump which I personnally dont find useful for a number of reasons which if you want to discuss it I'm more then happy to but to put it simply I dont see the benefit of showing the play by play when you can do that yourself in a notepad or an email or even writing by hand and you present to us instead is a case or a reads of the players of the game up to the present.

As for finding it scummy. It's a 50 page game and you are doing analysis at possibly 10 pages a post? It's a lot of information dumping but no action which could very well be a form of stalling. I could see a play by play post if one had replaced in mid day 1 or even late day 1 where it's 10 or so pages altogether. But a 50 page one just looked like stalling to me. But Spiffah pointed out that this is how you do it and I checked and it looks true so benefit of doubt.

[Sir Bastion]

spiff two quick questions on the ari case

there are a few points of you two missing out following up and I just wanted to hear them out

so firstly could you pick up ari's response to the first part of your original case in 1077

and secondly arri did ask you today in 1189 to clarify, Dwlee answered but you havnt.

[Sir Bastion]

timestamp on this post minus 1 hour 9 minutes.

here's countdown to help

(expired on 2015-11-13 22:00:00)

@gummy Is there a particular reason against me or in favour of Ari?

[Sir Bastion]

Aristophanes were you scum?

I neither was nor am scum

humour me on a point and you choose not to if you feel it is pointless (as you are no longer L-1 as well) but your vt flavour could you give us a brief outline.

[Sir Bastion]

Thank you

VOTE: aristophanes

I don't believe the claim. Look at history 1 aside from gender the flavours also carried themes. They were all important leaders. Between scorpius's flip of wat Tyler and my own role woodrow Wilson does not fit the theme. So I don't think it's a vt role you are reading from.

Common words I'd use to describe both wat tyler and my own role is rebel,working/poor class.

Woodrow Wilson was president of the United States of America. It doesn't fit.

[Sir Bastion]

Sorry on phone I meant look at all the vt flavours

[Sir Bastion]

Could someone explain to me what's unsound about it?

Once more

History 1 VT roles are all very similar flavours

Julies Ceaser
Napoleon
Bismarck
Cromwell
Lincoln
Sun tsu

All of them are national leaders with actual political power and military overtones all were involved in war

Compare to what I know here

Wat tyler -peasant revolt leader
Harriet tubman -underground railway hero freeing slave and union spy

Not national leaders. People's heroes. Rebels and working/peasent class and all tied to rebellion, revolution

How does Woodrow Wilson fit that?


He's an academic, elected leader.

The only common trait is the women's vote but that's only with mine. Wat tyler had no such ties. There is no common thread running through all 3 flavours which says to me 1 is not a town role

[Sir Bastion]

Woman's voting looks like a red herring, but linked with the gender cop I don't know. Dwlee claimed girl, I remember.

@ Tony, ideal lynch for today?

I think its that all scum are one gender while town are a mix of genders, hence why the gender cop went from 2 shot in the previous version to unlimited in this one.

As for the lynch I think it has to be either me or Ari because Ari claimed and I feel his flavour doesnt fit so I've practically claimed myself in pushing it. There is no value to town to put a 3rd person on the block.

either lynch me and confirm that I was coming from this from a town perspective and draw what you want from it

or lynch Ari and confirm if my thinking is correct or completely wrong and draw what you want from that.


I think it's a bad idea for town to try and ring up a third person with so much info on the table from today already.

[Sir Bastion]

I'll get to the game when I do. But one thing

Romulus is not a historical person. I call bullsh*t. There's no evidence of them beyond legend.

Next you'll tell me Zeus is here or Cuchulainn.

god damn it

I want to be Cuchulainn now.

[Sir Bastion]

Ugh, so, voteless doesn't necessarily mean town, because scum would be conf!towning a lot of people by day 4. If it is a different role, are there any advantages of claiming? I'm assuming BC's vote is back now?

It could also be an even day power or possibly a byproduct of another power. For example it could be a role blocker/investigator power and if the person is female they get vote blocked or if male they dont. Those could be 2 scenarios that would explain the lack of vote

[Sir Bastion]

I'm blind I didnt see that starbuck is now voteless.


Or was that edited in?

Anyway ignore point 1 above. point 2 still stands though unless Starbuck's not female at which case that whole theory is shot down.

[Sir Bastion]

@Pignash Tell me how your read of Spiffah changes if I flipped town?

[Sir Bastion]

also dwlee is the one who defused the initial issue everyone had of him by posting that screengrab proving he was 12.

That still bugs me.

[Sir Bastion]

spiffah and tonymontana are the only ones who really tried to run up a third person after getting claims from both me and Ari...

Also considering pignash ended up hammering I have a suspicion that there was 1 scum already on ari's wagon which is why pignash was going all reluctant leaving my wagon and hammering Ari.


I'm leaning tonymontana cause ktcreepers voting during day 1 and start of day 2 reeks of bussing by sitting on a scum mate without actually pushing

VOTE: tonymontana

[Sir Bastion]

because he posted it after he was replaced

[Sir Bastion]

<post removed>

Why was this removed?

I see distancing from ms in KT's iso. Is that slot alive?

that would be tony montana

[Sir Bastion]

yes

[Sir Bastion]

Oh and Starbuck, not asking for full flavour claim but is your flavour female?

[Sir Bastion]

no just confirming if my theory that your flavour's gender still affects if you get vote blocked or not still holds water. So far it does since if you remember you had lady parts and got blocked. If starbuck is also lady parts then we have a connection

[Sir Bastion]

well 2 of us are accusing tony and he aint posting

spiffah was under some pressure but BC has gone vla and tony is the other voter who aint here

Starbuck has to finish catching up

then there's me and you who are both voting tony for the same reason pretty much so not much to discuss there.

we are not in lylo yet. assuming it was a 3 scum game we will be tomorrow if we mislynch today.

There's nothing to get our teeth into really.

Maybe starbuck might have some insight finishing day 2 with the knowledge of piggy being scum and bella as town.

[Sir Bastion]

unvote

No one is counterclaiming and MS did breadcrumb it (or outright claim it) on day 1 329

I assume then you are Remus?


I am having some words with the mod about the word History after this game.


Quick question

if it is a scum power to block some people from voting and we are guessing there are at most 2 scum left then are we not at mylo right now?

7 players left 2 scum 6 votes = today

5 players left 2 scum 4 votes = tomorrow = scum win?

[Sir Bastion]

no it would have been 3 scum and 7 votes cause 1 town was modkilled as well.

[Sir Bastion]

at the start of today we had 8 alive and possibly 3 scum

modkilled removed 1 town and 1 scum

it is currently 7 town and possibly 2 scum

either that or we've confused each other somehow?

@Dwlee why the not lynch vote?

[Sir Bastion]

Ok I see the confusion

I thought you were saying scum would have controlled half the town already today if it wasnt for the modkills

If we mislynched instead of getting the modkills, we would be at 3 scum and 6 votes

now

.

As for no lynch
It's a valid option to discuss not to be thrown out naked

[Sir Bastion]

...


dwlee you are confusing yourself now

it's 4 votes in total with 2 of them being scum.

not 4 town and 2 scum

thats our current situation.

[Sir Bastion]

So Sir Bastion, how are you certain that two of the votes that are available are scum? That feels like a slip to me.

not really, more of a shorthand cause the topic had already established back quite a few posts that we were discussing with the potential of there being 3 scum with 2 remaining, it had gone back and forth so much I just gave up on writing possible everytime.

If there were more then 2 remaining then they would already hold the majority of votes and if there is less then 2 remaining then this is not an issue yet.

Because, technically, what you just did was confirm me as town (which I already know that I am).

Perhaps. If we agree the power is a scum controlled shot then yes it would have confirmed you and BC as town and we now have 3 confirmed town players in a game of 7 and the focus should be on me, spiffah, Dwlee and Errent.

But

thats if it is a scum controlled shot, or even a shot and not some sort of side effect to another ability.

The only theory that's not been disproven yet (or even proven) is that it affects only characters with female flavours and that still leaves it open for scum to turn it on one of their own (if they have a female member) to create the illusion they are town while also excluding them from suspicion about their vote etc. The other theory we can deduce is they can only do it once per person since they didnt do it to BC twice in a row.


But if it is a scum power that targets players the issue I am asking that still hasnt been answered would tomorrow just end when it's 2 scum and 2 town able to vote? Or would such a power be considered non-normal and therefore the notion of it being a scum shot targeting town players should be taken off the table?

[Sir Bastion]

As Spiffeh is the only one who pushed for a third run up on day 2 that has not been confirmed town I'd be in favour of his lynch.

vote:Spffah

[Sir Bastion]

i'm not jumping to any conclusions on this one and repeating my earlier mistake but the last saxon king of england?

[Sir Bastion]

Ok guys I'm not scum but I'll hammer myself before deadline to make sure we get a lynch.

Yeah thats either not thought out much or very scummy attempt to look town.

You said ypu'd try to elaborate on your BC read, I rather see that before the deadline then empty promises that do not prove anything nor can be trusted to be upheld.

If you are town the best thing for you to be doing right now is leaving a testament of your reads and thoughts going into Day 3.

[Sir Bastion]

spiffah tell me a bit more about your flavour text please

[Sir Bastion]

no vote block well there goes another of my theories

also possibly lylo if 2 scum alive.

[Sir Bastion]

TL;DR; Scum is most likely Bastion and Beardedcat based on my VCA.

Reading your VCA. It looks a bit flawed for day 2, primarily because between those 2 vote counts a hell of a lot actually happened in terms of voting, if I recall we had two players practically run up to L-1 and tracked back and an attempt to run up a possible 3rd until we reverted back to the first

and for both day 2 and 3 you dont account for players being unable to vote.

I also note no one seems to have touched that issue, of it vanishing today.

But aside from that thank you for the vca for day 1. I'll hopefully find it useful.

So I see we are all *VT*, humour me if willing and also throw out your flavours please

I'm Harriet Tubman

[Sir Bastion]

it's all fecking romans and normans with this game...

[Sir Bastion]

I accept the brunt of this going to crap, I never got back up to speed after the end of day 1 and just kept tripping over myself. I was going to come back and address a lot of things, but honestly I would have probably pushed a mislynch on Dwlee99 if I had so yeah I sucked a lot this game.

out of curiosity Dwlee why did you never claim? Even in Lylo? You claimed VT to the very end.

[Sir Bastion]

I need to stop getting distracted by avatars. This is the 2nd game in a row where I Liked someone's avatar and gave them a pass for most of the early game and they ended up being scum.

[Sir Bastion]

PS Sir Bastion, who's avatar was it?

yours you fabulous son of a bitch.

I smiled everytime I had to read one of your posts and that ended up making me liking your posts and I gave it a pass.

I had a similar newbie game that finished halfway through this where someone had a black adder avatar and I equally liked their ernest noob posts. Thankfully though they ended up getting lynched out of necessity and flipped and we won the game that time. But if it hadnt been a lynch of necessity I may have carried them further then I should have.

[Sir Bastion]

I just saw the scum thread...we never had a chance with that chart tracking everything


holy sh*t

[Sir Bastion]

day chat seems a lot more common in mafiascum then it use to be.

[Sir Bastion]

daytalk is the best

when I was here last (I tend to show up play 3-4 games burn myself out and go away for a few years) I only ever played 1 daytalk game and I was scum and it felt so OP it was ridiculous.

I've played 4 games this time (and looks like I burnt myself out again) and it was 3 out of the 4 games had daytalk. Though it seems I timed my return at a point when the admins are testing daytalk in newbie games.

[Sir Bastion]

The absence of daytalk actually surprised me when I first signed up here. My past experience had daytalk as the norm..

I actually prefer without day talk personnally

Both as scum and town. It makes the individual players more important during the day and gives much greater weight on pressuring players with your vote.

Though credit to the scum team/mod it didn't enter my thought if this game had day chat or not, either that or a serious mistake on my part again

[Sir Bastion]

Yeah. I played scum once with day chat and thor665 was my partner. You can imagine how that game went. Scum destroyed town.

I am actually mistaken I saw 3 day chat games before but 2 of them were day chat for only as long as a certain role was alive and I'm not kidding both games had different mods but the same player thor665 had that role in both of them

[Sir Bastion]

Yeah reading the one for this. I can't believed you meta me on the tho policy. Makes me feel important. But also annoyed that I'm being read so easily. You can see my decline this game rapidly over the scum chat of day 2. From being someone you were unsure about on day 1 to being an easy lynch end of day 2. :*(

[Sir Bastion]

Think you got the dates mixed up the deadline was Saturday we had 4 days when you hammered