Zindaras wrote:Carbon Copy's probably an alt for a player, or maybe he's an alt for the mod or even someone not in the game.
The question is: is it scum or is it town?
Previous experiences with alts suggest that he should be scum. I've seen alts used in three games. One identical to this, where it was a scum-alt, but also obviously scum by flavour. I've seen one in a very complicated game, which was also scum. I've also seen an alt which would replace a specific player, as if brainwashed.
Mini 413 - Famous CATS - Over! Quit pussyfooting around!
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i think youre scum for suggesting im scum. Sorry guys for being so late in the thread. I think Zindaras is noob mafia trying to pile on to someone just after they received attention.Vote: Zindaras
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*shrugs*
I think I remember seeing permanent inventor-esque roles (usually, those inventor roles are one-shot, though). There are a lot of possible roles that could've given me an extra ability.
I'm just saying I assumed it was from an inventor, as that seemed the easiest explanation to me. I don't know for sure.-
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You voted CC early on, then you disappeared for a while, added a couple of minor things, then you switched. I think that you could show a lot more contribution than you have.theopor_COD wrote:And CC I take it your finding suspicion on me because I vote hopped between your two roles, well excuse me, but 2 role townies like yourself and Primate are hard to believe, I apologise that one of your alter egos came back town, I'd tend to think the scum would already be aware that you'd be town and thus have distanced themselves from the wagon. Which makes me slighlty supsicious of WizardCat.
Tell me, theopor, who's scum and why?-
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Welcome to what I totally told you guys so yesterday.
Cynical? Oh, well, the whole "noose around my original's neck" thing does that to a kitten.
Also, the mass amount of information, claims and other isanity going on here is what inspires me to go after Pooky. Theopor probably got inventor'd like I did yesterday.-
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In definite agreement.Glork wrote:I think that every player should probably weigh in on the living players on this wagon.
I'd say Theopor and one of DP/DGB/Glork (in that order of likelyhood) myself.I'd guess about two cartoon-crazies, and right now I'm looking at Theo and DGB as the most likely scumbags on Zindaras' lynch.-
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This is a very interesting theory, Skruffy.Skruffs wrote:THat Aside, if this were a regular game, I would be voting and pushing for Glork to be lynched, and if he came up as scum, to get Primate lynched (twice if necessary, too). IT's not though, it's a crazy game. A game with lots of doubles. A double liver, a double player, a double voted, someone who takes 1/double the votes to lynch...
I...don't know. There was probably some interesting train of thought I was following at that point, or I was simply not paying attention, but I don't know.Why do you think phoebus was hit by scum and thesp was vigged?
Then why did you say you would lynch Primate if I came up town?Glork wrote:I also explained that I would not have expected Primate to counterclaim in the manner he did if he were scum. I still hold true to that belief, at least for now, which is why I haven't bothered to go after him. I'm not pushing the idea out of my mind completely -- my reasons for saying I find Primate to be pro-town are entirely WIFOM-based -- but he is not currently at the top of my list.
Proving his role will not prove his alignment.DrippingGoofball wrote:Z'O.K., I took a look at Primate. At first, the was agreeing that CC was a more experienced player, which turned out to be the case. But then he was particularly rabid against both Zindie and CC. Especially since Primate reckoned that his own role was nearly identical to Zindie/CC. But Primate's role should be rather provable. It think it's too risky a claim for scum to make. Is there much incentive to test his role? It seems like a rather Townie power. If we confirm him, he might be nightkilled anyway. But then it's strange that he wasn't nightkilled already - maybe the scum was slacking, I dunno. I don't think Primate is scum. His being scum would be a long shot.
What?Skruffs wrote:good call massive
what do you think carbon copy? Did you sell your townie half down the stream?
The only thing I've said is that I have it and that I will not say what it does, or if it even does anything. That will be all.Skruffs wrote:Carbon Copy actually received a gift n0, but I don' tthink anyone here knows what it does, and I don' tbelieve he's suggested if he's used it or whatnot.
In which case I could simply sell out the entire Mafia team Day 1.DrippingGoofball wrote:ZI have a bad feeling about the pussycats that have two bodies, like CC and Zindie. A bad feeling that one is the evil counterpart of the other.
Not that I would, to be completely honest.
I still think theopor is scummy. However, massive's vote there just reeks of 'wagoning.FoS: Massive, Theopor-
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I'll admit I haven't been paying a lot of attention to this game, so I'll throw out a couple of short comments:
Godfather roles are often associated with both kill protection and investigation protection, though almost never both at the same time.
Glork is unfortunately probably right about Primate. We've already wasted one lynch, we'd better not waste another. We need a result here that we can work with.-
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Oh great, now they post.
Okay, I've been really out of touch, but I've been reading little parts. If I'm correct, Glork has claimed a scumresult on Pooky, who has since gone ballistic and is trying to get Glork lynched.
I'll attempt to fit in a reread in my busy schedule (though I know I'll be able to participute fully from July 9th and oneward).
Also, Pooky seems to be talking about masons and apparent lies there. I'm getting the idea he's stating that both Masons are scum. I'd like to point out that this game was advertised as out of the ordinary. A lot of Mason pairs and such are possibilities. There's also the possibility of Mason Traitors, so I don't really see the point there. Massive and Primate can only confirm each others' roles (well, Primate's confirmed as town, but massive isn't). Role=/=Alignment.-
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Well, that made me look pretty silly, didn't it?Glork wrote:CC: Massive is dead -- his alignment is kinda confirmed by that means.
But the point is still true. Primate could never confirm massive's alignment with his role.
I'm not going to do that. I see no reason to do so. Don't fish.Skruffs wrote:Well - Carbon Copy confirmed receiving an ability night zero. That's why Zindaras got lynched instead, remember? Wonder if Carbon Copy could tell us what that ability was, now.-
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Again, don't fish. I have never stated whether or not it is a nightrole. This question is awfully suggestive.Skruffs wrote:Have you been using it? Because if you have the ability to bus actions around, you are not helping by not talking.
Who's scummy to Carbon Copy?
As for my suspicions, as I said, I have to reread the thread, but, at the moment, I feel Pooky is the better lynch.
The point is that if I say "Zindaras is town", there's no reason to believe me. It would be the exact same as you saying "Pooky is town". Therefore, I can't call on being a Mason as a way of clearing myself.PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:No I don't get you at all
What is the difference between CarbonCopy/Zindaras which is 1 player who is playing 2 characters and a mason group of 2 players?
I'd think there's an ADVANTAGE in that the CC/Zind thing can't have a scum mason because it makes no sense to give 1 player 2 alignments which makes it BETTER than the standard mason pair.
Could you tell me what the difference is? WHY does the role make more sense as a scum role?(note that if it does make more sense as a scum role its very existence would be void as lynching the alt who signed up specifically for this game would be an optimal play whenever such an alt is present which makes the creation of such a scum role entirely pointless since the bloody alt is going to be lynched on day one anyway)-
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Hi. I have a problem. This problem consists of the following: some guy decided to attack me in one of my games (Glork, you might like it, it's the very last installment of PK vs Zindaras, and it's like a Tolkien novel). It's hell to respond to it. Therefore, I haven't gotten around to rereading this thread at all.
I am also going to my grandmother's from Thursday through Sunday (will be back Sunday afternoon) and will afterwards go on a vacation from 23 through 30 July.
Yeah, this looks like I'm going to request replacement, right? But, no. I've noticed this nice little button at the top of the thread which gives me a printer friendly version. I will print the thread and take it with me to my grandmother's, where I will have a nice and relaxed time reading it. I will post my findings when I come back on Sunday. I will then be unavailable for response for a week, but I'll be back up to date very quickly when I come back.
That's my solution. If bertrand accepts it, I will do it that way. I think I need to apologize again for being an absolute asswad.-
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Note: Question was aimed at Glork.
What do you think about the lack of kill and the added possibility of you blocking a killer?Skruffs wrote:Hi everyone
I made it, woo
I targeted Theo with my random ability last night. Theo, that may have blocked you. There should not have been anything about 'two figures' though - not from me, anyways.
I think I know both his target and his result. I also think that it's fairly obvious.Skruffs wrote:glork - you are so mysterious! who did you target last night?-
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Actually, while I'm asking questions, I might as well ask everyone one.
DGB, don't you look silly today? What do you have to say for yourself now that Pooky turned up scum?
Primate, why did you steal my hammer?
Nai, who should we lynch?
Miztef, my notes (which could be wrong) tell me you've claimed Mason. Why are you not a Mason Traitor?
All questions are serious and I expect serious answers.-
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Are there any questions you wish to ask of me?Glork wrote:Zindaras: I think that I know exactly who the last two scums are. I'm not going to elaborate until I have heard from everybody.
Heh, I already have half of it right.Pantsman: Same -- I got another guilty last night, but I'm not going to announce who it was on until everyone has weighed in.
Why?Skruffs wrote:CC -
I would like to elaborate more on the possibility of preventing last night kills but I can't.
According to my notes, Miztef claimed Mason with dead Thesp (and no proof, by the way), and he also knew that Phoebus's role was in the game.Also, Mistef claimed one-shot cop who knew about the existance of another player in the game (Phoebus, I think). That's according to my mental notes.-
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Well, I'll admit that it's kinda dumb to forget about a faked post restriction.DrippingGoofball wrote:I feel like a complete retard. Baboons are smarter than me. Pooky is one smooth criminal. I feel for it hook line and sinker. Definitely will be on high alert whenever playing with Pooky. I dunno... what he said made sense to me at the time, though in hindsight I've been a complete fool.
vote: Theofor gratuitous attack on my claim.
I'm Carbon Copy? I actually lost my Role PM due to the limits of the Inbox (which I just found out about, unfortunately). I'll go ask bertrand what it was.Glork wrote:Well, CC. To be completely 100% honest, I'd like you to fully claim, if you don't mind. I'm pretty sure that I trust you (as I said, I think I know the last two scums -- and you are not one of them). I mean, you've basically done so already, but I'd like to bring a little closure and possibly set up tonight/tomorrow to ensure that nothing can possibly go wrong.
Sure. Shame you already claimed the result though. It takes half of the awesome away.Also, after everyone checks in, I'd like you to claim my target and result so that I know you're not just blowing steam.-
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I do not understand this post.Skruffs wrote:For the record - I dont think CC has claimed - soft or hard - that he has the ability to, Glork. I'm not sure ifthat's what you meant by your last post or not.
Goofy, why are you so aggressive? I'm getting the feeling you're trying to do away with your behaviour yesterday and deflect attention.-
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No. But the absence of a Mafia roleblocker does not mean that I'll just throw my ability on the cobblestones.Skruffs wrote:Is there a reason to suspect that the mafia has a role blocker?
1) You've said it already. I'm a townie. I'm confirmed town, or at least pretty much as close as you can get.Nai wrote:I can't help but wonder why CC doesn't want to say anything. It's suspicious to me when townies don't want to give information to other townies.
2) I've claimed my role ages ago. The only thing I haven't claimed is an ability I received from an Inventor, something which has no bearing on my alignment.
3) Other townies? Have you forgotten about the fact that there are still scumbags merrily hopping around?-
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No. My catch was Theo. My scumgroup was, and still is, Theo/Skruffs/Pooky. I noted it down during my reread. Primate first stopped me from hammering Pookscum, and now Glork is stealing my catch on Theo (and he didn't even allow me to claim it for him :/).
Glork, I find it highly unlikely that Skruffs stopped Theoscum from making the kill. I stand by my earlier thoughts: I believe that Skruffs, and not Goofy, is Theo's last buddy.-
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Of course it wasn't. My point is that I spent a lot of time rereading this thread, only to first see someone steal my hammer, then the next day see the guy I was going to push for (and other people hadn't pushed for before) having a guilty investigation on him. I was really looking forward to being awesome again in this game, Glork, and it seems that my chances are kinda...lost.Glork wrote:We'll see, CC. And no, Theo wasn't solely "your catch." Obviously, the fact that I chose to investigate *him* showed a distinct suspicion -- one that I was not willing to voice during the day yesterday.
You are correct. The principle is rather simple.Skruffs wrote:What's your reasoning that I am Theo's last buddy, CC?
I mean, on what basis? You are saying that I am a godfather mafia, correct?
Theo is scum. Primate is not scum, for obvious reasons. I do not believe Nai is scum, as that would further balance the game against the town. Miztef has confirmed Glork, which means that if Glork is scum, then Miztef also has to be scum. Miztef can be scum on his own, but his one-shot name investigation and the timing of the claim regarding his one-shot investigation came at such a time that I believe that he is town. I do not believe Goofy is scum, and if she would be, my opinion of her will be severely lowered.
Which leaves us at you. You, whose claim is completely unconfirmable (seriously, blind JoaT?). You, who seems to have a love for targeting Theoscum, your little scumbuddy, thereby helping him out with his vig-claim and also making sure your role can never be confirmed.
Allow me to give a little insight on what I've been doing. While going through the stack of paper, I added little plusses and minuses where my gut said something.
I'll let you in on what I got (Note: this only goes as far as post 807).
Theo: +0/-6 (159, 224, 243, 246, 296, 575)
Skruffs/DP: +0/-11(288, 305, 406, 408, 417, 432, 461, 571, 591, 654, 656)
DGB and Glork are also in the negative. Glork due to Post 621, which I really didn't like, and his all-around crappy play surrounding his claim and the "non-famous cats" thing. DGB due to her awful play. However, she also has plusses, something which can't be said about you two (she got +4/-12).-
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Phoebus was dead by the time you claimed. Theo is your buddy. Your targets reflect badly on you.Skruffs wrote:For the record My predecesser targetted Phoebus the first two nights, and I targetted Theo the next two nights. I never believed his 'claim' ability, and if you have really been following the game as you say you have, you would see that I wasn't at all pleased with his play yesterday or the day before.
You clearly don't understand what I'm talking about.Unless you think that I am a godfather, roleblocking mafia, and that I targetted my own goon to distance myself. That makes sense - why would I target the copwho we now know is confirmed, if I coudl get extra brownie points by targetting MY OWN GOON. Since there has been only one kill a night (except for night one, when I targetted Phoebus, and claimed MAYBE responsibility for his death, and Theo claimed to have targetted Primate), it makes a lot of sense to block my own goon, don't you think?
Theo is not a Vig. You are not a roleblocker. You are not some blind JoaT thing. You are nothing but a normal godfather. You claimed your silly JoaT thingy to help Theo.
Good jorb, I'm sure everyone's proud of you. I'll point out that all my plusses and minuses are based on actual perceived scum- and towntells. I do not truly see your point. If there are 11 posts that give off scumvibes, and 0 that give off townvibes, then it's pretty likely you're scum.Gah, seriously.
I have ALSO been adding plusses and minuses, and I will share them with you right now:
Nai +10/-1
Carbon Copy +2/-100
Theo -190/-23948
DGB -39/-3485734895
Glork +10/-3
Mistef 0/pi
Skruffs +100/0
There we go, infallible scoring system at your perusal.
31, 95, 343, 608.What are DGB's plusses, btw?
Oh, and Pooky also had a negative account, but he's irrelevant by now.-
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Post 1053.Carbon Copy wrote:Ah, great, at least I survived.
Primate totally stole my hammer. I've reread most of the thread. I'm ready to kick behind.
My early gut scumgroup was Theo/DP/Pooky. I wonder how close I got.
I announced before leaving that I was going to reread the thread. The conversation is clear in-thread with bertrand.
The idea behind stealing a hammer is that the guy whose hammer is being stolen doesn't get the chance to actually cast it.-
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I protected Glork last night. DGB's invention was a doc-role. I got it. I used it to protect Glork.Skruffs wrote:Unlikely, CC. I protected Glork last night.Iam the one who caused the no-kill. Notyou, my dear Skruffykins. You're just the one trying to claim it.
I'm happy I eventually did get my opportunity to be awesome. I'm also very happy to see my original scumteam of Theo/Skruffs/Pooky (which I noted at Post 297) be completely one hundred percent correct. I really wish I had been able to give my results earlier, it would've been a lot more awesome.-
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Oh, how endearing. Watch how Skruffyboy entangles himself further and further in a web of lies.
Where's the breadcrumb? When did you get your protective role? Why did you claim to have blocked Theo? If you received a doc invention from DGB, then why did you askmeif my invention was pro-town? A doc role is pretty much as pro-town as you can get.
There is no need for all this foolishness. I will protect Glork tonight, you will "protect" me.-
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You didn't exactly try to hide it, Glork.Glork wrote:Ah, so you *did* get a protective role. That was my first guess, but then when you said you knew who I targeted and what result I got, that confused me and I thought maybe you had a tracker role instead. Did you eventually end up with two roles/abilities, CC? How did you know who I targeted and what result I got?
This is of course the first relevant post. Personally, I think the letter's answers already remove Goofy from the list of possible investigations, since I reckon she'd be a lot sillier in them. Also, I wouldn't have expected you to investigate Goofy. Maybe I'm just saying it because I would've done it, but I think you'd have gone for Theo at that point anyway.bertrand wrote:The following letter has been found:
Also, everyone who went to sleep is now awake! Woohoo!No
Yes
Yes
IT IS NOW DAY 4.
This is the first (large) hint that you investigated Theo. I got the idea you were trying to milk your investigation here. Of course, due to the whole letter thing, Theo knew he was screwed from the start.Glork wrote:Have you anything else to say, Theo?
This only solidified my ideas.Glork wrote:Zindaras: I think that I know exactly who the last two scums are. I'm not going to elaborate until I have heard from everybody.
Pantsman: Same -- I got another guilty last night, but I'm not going to announce who it was on until everyone has weighed in.
I by no meansknewyour target and result. I simply figured it out on my own. The fact that, if investigated, I expected Theo to come up scum did help.
What, you actually think my Theoscum thoughts are in retrospect now that you've claimed scum on him?Glork wrote:I don't really know yet. I know nothing about the nature of DGB's granted abilities, so I don't even know how that's possible. However, CC asked Theo why he lied about being a Vig before I even *hinted* at who my result was on, so I can tell that he knew who I tracked and what result I got. The reason I'm asking CC what's up is preciselybecauseI don't know what's going on.
I think you're totally missing the joke. Also, I'm not saying I played awesomely before I went away. I announced I would be away and rereading the thread. I did so. You think I'm quivering with rage or something? Because I'm not. I'm somewhat disappointed that I'm not going to get a whole lot of credit for this game, especially seeing how I'm disappointed with my play up to this point, but that's it. (I did, by the way, say something before Glork's investigation)Nai wrote:I think you're taking this way too personally. It's your fault for not saying anything the majority of this game, and not saying anything before Glork gave his investigation. It's not Glork's fault he's being a good cop.
I'm not saying it makes him scum. There's more to this than just his claim. But the fact that his claim works to validate Theo's claim of Vig does not reflect well upon him.Yes, he's unconfirmable. But a person who targets another person doesn't make him scum. It could mean that he's townie that has been targetting someone he's thought is scum.
Yes, DGB. On DGB, my gut reigns supreme, but, to be honest, I really can't see her playing so awfully as scum (I would say she's been playing worse at this point if she's scum than if she's town). I can't really see her tie herself to Pookscum in such a clear, obvious way.What about DGB? She is so absurdly out there I'm amazed she's still alive.
Yes, I could be wrong about her. Very easily, in fact. But I think she's town.
So actual scummy posts are a bad way of proving someone is scum?This is an all around crappy way to prove that someone is scum, and shouldn't be considered at all.
Well, I'm sure you have a lot of fun relying purely on Cop claims, then.
The fact that it would further unbalance the game is the easiest and quickest (and most definitely the most objective) reason to drop you from the list. If you want a friggin' serenade on how awesome you've played, you can go look somewhere else.I love how you completely ignore half the game. Y'know, my actual play, how I've been vehemetly against Pooky and DGB (one of which is confirmed scum), etc. You've been out of the game pretty much the entire game. Your voice, at least to me, is not worth much.
Yes, we should catch scum using claims and throwing dice! That's great! That's awesome! Let's do it!Scumtells and towntells are WIFOM, period. And gut feelings are subjective evidence, not objective, and should be discounted.
Also, saying tells are WIFOM is hilariously wrong. I'm absolutely astounded at the fact that just a paragraph or two ago, you were whining about how you played so awesomely and went against Pooky and Theo so much, and here you're saying it's all WIFOM.
I don't give a rat's ass about my gut being subjective. My gut feelings are based on actual tells. My gut feelings also have a fairly high success rate. If it works, it works.
No, you see, Nai, Skruffs has been trying to claim responsibility. Responsibility for something he did not cause. It's what, y'know, scum likes to do. They try to claim the responsibility for something they weren't responsible for so they look good.I love comments like this. Purely egotistical. It's a statement of "I got a role that can do this. But since I got a role that can, there's no way you could possibly have a role that could do a similar action. You know, like a doc and a roleblocker, perhaps?
He DIDN'T. This entire time THEO said he blocked him. The ENTIRE TIME Skruffs was saying he could NOT have done so.Skruffs wrote:I targeted Theo with my random ability last night. Theo, that may have blocked you.
This is probably the most insulting thing that has ever been said to me in a Mafia game. It is probably also the most baseless crap that has ever been said to me, so I guess that evens it out a little.And I think you're an extremely misguided townie who has no idea how to help the town, and has a very bad scumdar.
I jumped in today with Theoscum (before Glork had even posted). I correctly predicted Glork's target and result before he even hinted at it, to use his own words. Yes, I am obviously extremely misguided, have no idea what I'm doing, and all-around suck at this game. Post 160, Post 240 and Post 268 are also clear evidence that my scumdar sucks.-
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Carbon Copy Townie
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I've already stated my opinion on this. You protect me, I protect Glork. I'm okay with that as plan.Skruffs wrote:Carbon Copy - you didn't acknowledge my chain of protections idea. Do you think that it is a bad idea or a good idea? I'm basically offering my throat to you by putting Glork's protection in either you or my's hands tonight. I would really like your opinion.
Theo is today's lynch anyway, I've mostly been busy trying to get my say in before I died, which has now pretty much become impossible.-
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Carbon Copy Townie
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- Location: Litter Box
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Carbon Copy Townie
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- Joined: February 12, 2007
- Location: Litter Box
Up until your claim and our subsequent plotting of abilities, I was very likely to die, being doc.Skruffs wrote:Errr? Why is it impossible to get your say in before you die?
You're not going to die. You're going to be protected. If Glork dies, you will be in trouble, though.
Phoebus was only alive on Night 1, the Night where there were actually two kills. It makes perfect sense.Question - if I am a godfather and I targetted Phoebus two nights in a row and there was no actual role blocking involved (I am considering [based on theo's frustration] that perhaps all of my actions are actually roleblocking) then why were there not more kills on the nights that Phoebus was alive? Zindaras - you did not protect anyone n0, which was the night you received your action.
Who did you protect in later nights?
I'm not sure, but I believe I protected Wizardcat on Night 1 (not 0), then Glork from then on (I'm fairly sure it went that way).
Why Wizardcat? Wizardcat was the only person I felt pretty sure was Town at the end of Day One. In retrospect, it was a bad decision, but that happens more often.-
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Carbon Copy Townie
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