League of Mafia (GG No Re)

[Toogeloo]

VOTE: Abr
It isnt blue it is purple, scum.

Uh, no... it's Blue.

I can't confirm a Red Team, but I can confirm a Blue one.

[Toogeloo]

Oh... and /confirm >_>

[Toogeloo]

Vote: RC

Shady Miller claim. It's not that he claimed Miller, it's the way he claimed it and is expanding on it with other "Millers" and scum possibly being in there as well. Feels too try-hard.

[Toogeloo]

I don't give a flying fuck who's on what team. All people need to know is if they're town or not. Let's make this very fucking clear: you're either town or you aren't. Teams are just some bullshit thrown in for flavor.

This is probably true as well, to an extent. There is definitely a difference between Faction and Team, and the latter might have some relevance to specific roles, but is very likely not alignment indicative.

[Toogeloo]

Are you on team banned?

I already heavily implied that I'm on Blue Team.

[Toogeloo]

Unvote

Frozen, if you are a Miller as well, why didn't you claim to be so in your first post?

[Toogeloo]

Yeah no VOTE: hindu

I am also on the banned team -- still not quite comfortable with how hindu so quickly dismissed RC's banned status as scum signalling?

well actually this feels scummy. I know in the way my role pm is written all banned players are millers. but he never claimed to be one. plus he claims he is in banned in 63 posts later ... after I confirmed what RC was claiming

and yeah I think there is nothing in Aj so

VOTE: DrDolittle

@RC I'm town. you can move on ...

Don't be awful. Dr's post at least signals his instant belief in the banned team since he later claimed to be on it. It makes more sense from his perspective as his first post. I'm willing to believe that you didn't claim Miller in your first post because it was probably still confirming phase now that I look at the timeline of things.

From a purely reactionary standpoint of everyone's opening posts, I think that DrDoolittle is the most likely to be town in this game thus far.

[Toogeloo]

Yeah because the single most effective scum strategy is to bus your partner's ass first post out of confirms.

It's been done many times in the past, it's not surprising in the least tbqh. It's fool hardy to make people believe this is an epic fail strategy.

How many times do RVS votes actually stick through to the end of Day 1? By about page 10, most people have already forgotten what happened in the first two pages of the game.

[Toogeloo]

explain please. I said he never claimed miller. nor defended RC when he was in banned team as well. why is that town?

Hindu votes RC, Dr immediately counter votes Hindu in his first post. That in and of itself shows that though Dr didn't claim Miller in the very first post, that he was aware of the team and believed it which means it's far more likely that he was on the team, and his later claim corroborates it.

[Toogeloo]

For fun, I'll tell you all that I'm usually one of the two players stationed bottom lane (not top, mid, jungle).

Current town reads:
ABR (mostly meta)
DrDolittle (as explained)

Null-Leaning Town reads:
RadiantCowbells (good poise after Miller claim and subsequent discussion)
Raskolnikov (good posting, but possibly just doing IIOA to pad his good posting)


I'm down for wagons on any of the following player slots:
Dwlee
Soren
The Bulge

Each has basically done nothing since the game started, not even a fluff post or something, just more like lurker posting.

I feel like FA might be a VI, and she'll likely be around for ever assuming she doesn't get modkilled again.

I have very little opinion on anyone else in the game currently.

Vote: Dwlee99

[Toogeloo]

Couldn't possibly be something you are doing. It's definitely cuz you "are town."

[Toogeloo]

I'm willing to vote Toge just for that, but I feel like the Dwlee wagon is being pushed by scum as a counterwagon to my ABR wagon.

Explain why it's bad.

Explain why ABR is scum.

[Toogeloo]

I find it relatively humorous, and you must think pretty highly of yourself, to think that you have scum ABR in your sights with no case provided (prior to your last post of which I am editing), and that a wagon that forms beside it must be a counterwagon.


EDIT: I've known Scum ABR to be different, and I'm not seeing it here.

The wagon on Dwlee isn't entirely boiled down to sheeping. He's lurking, he needs pressure. I don't think anyone even mentioned sheeping being a scumtell or wanting to wagon him for it. It's just a good wagon on page 7 of the game.

[Toogeloo]

You asked for a case for scum abr pandaguy care to provide a case for town abr?

I already said it's a meta read.

[Toogeloo]

And I didn't ask for proof, I asked for a case.

RC basically said "ABR is scum, sheep me!"
*ABR and Dwlee wagons both form*
"Dwlee is the counterwagon to scum ABR!"

There ya go, Page 7 in a nutshell.

EDIT: In the two games I've played with Scum ABR, he's put even less effort (1 post or less) in and actually replaced out before page 3.
EDIT 2: Nice attempt at redirection. Apparently now I have to not only prove innocence, but I have to defend myself as well. Bravo.

[Toogeloo]

Look at the mirror. Dwlee is my version of ABR to your perspective, you are deflecting from Dwlee and calling a him a counterwagon (inherently calling him town).

What makes us different?

[Toogeloo]

You're defending him saying that we shouldn't force him to make more content since you apparently already know he's town.

I also have to address that this is entirely not true. I'd be happy to have ABR post more, and I am not condoning him to remain silent just because I think he is town. Wagons need support, I need him to help push Dwlee (especially since he started it).

Would you be content if Dwlee didn't post anything for the rest of Day 1?

[Toogeloo]

It's that my motivations are pro-town and yours are anti-town, basically.

FALSE

[Toogeloo]

The reality is that there is no good cause for the Dwlee wagon, the post being cited is not a scumtell whatsoever, most of my primordial scumreads are on the Dwlee wagon already, and that Dwlee happened as a reaction to ABR. Even with this, I would not fight it until much later if there wasn't a good reason to, but ABR needs to happen.

Your wagon on ABR: This is his scum game, he needs pressure, and I think Dwlee is the counterwagon.
My wagon on Dwlee: He's lurking, needs pressure, and I think ABR is town.


Apparently, in your mind, anyone who doesn't think like you is anti-town and is wrong and/or scum.

[Toogeloo]

Yo toogeloo are you blind to my posts or something? Just wondering.

Every post (sans "read the blitz game") has been fluff or championing RC to stick with ABR. Where is your direct contribution to the game that I am blind to?

EDIT: Look at his content, it's active lurking. Post Count means nothing if there is absolutely no content in it.

[Toogeloo]

All of your examples come

after

he has a wagon on him and we butt heads on our ABR read.

Well over half of his posts are literally a waste of a post count, and come before the whole debacle.

[Toogeloo]

And to suggest that 4 posts out of 23 make for an active content poster is laughable.

[Toogeloo]

That's 4 votes on Dwlee and I could see 3 of them as scum easily.

Again, you are so full of yourself.

I'm done with you. You've put in enough effort to solidify my town read on you, but I am sick of this stupid back and forth. You are worse than my wife.

[Toogeloo]

Tibbers gets a vote?

Looking at the vount count, I find it rather amusing that we spent the last 5 pages of jack all nothing and the two main wagons haven't changed since the beginning of the game. I dislike most the people on the AJ wagon solely due to absence.

[Toogeloo]

It is 7 to force someone to solo Baron. Baron spawn is in 12 and 6 hours or something? There's a reason I don't jungle...

Level 1 Baron Solo, Bring it on!

[Toogeloo]

Another hop? How many people are scum for you hinduragi?

God forbid people not actually have solid reads and are fine with wagoning for the sake of wagoning.

It's Day 1, not Day 3.

[Toogeloo]

I had no idea that Dwlee was 14, so that info actually helps. I can totally understand his behavior a bit more, and the tentativeness to be proactive.

I'm developing a Hindu as town read, and don't like the votes on him. Cementing my Town-ABR read as well. RC town read is also solid.

Rasko has dropped from my leaning town back to null. His early good posting isn't really present anymore, it was definitely IIOA early on, now it's just fluff following popular opinion. Not really scummy per se, but not nearly as town as before.

Soren and Bulge are still completely absent, wouldn't mind a little pressure there once other people notice their absence.

I don't really like Yakko's posts, but I can't tell if it's just because of inconsistency or Yakko being Yakko.

If AJ is really unlynchable, it might be worth testing on Day 1. Night Abilities might give us a bigger picture to work with going into Day 2 (since everyone has abilities), and it would prove AJ's claim. If he's unlynchable, I would sincerely hope that is a town role since there is no guarantee of eliminating a scum unlynchable. What bugs me is that Yakko was also talking about preventing lynches today as well. Something here is either a bluff, bullshit, or oddly balanced.


@Yakko, explain your comments on no lynch happening today and your opinion on AJ claiming unlynchable (non-stump). Do you think your comments and AJ can co-exist, or are you full of shit (or think that AJ is full of shit)?

For now...

Unvote;
Vote: Raskolnikov

[Toogeloo]

Why are we voting rasko?

I wasn't aware you were voting Rasko.

[Toogeloo]

We as a collective term for a group of people. You knew what I meant so what is the point in making that comment?

To antagonize you, but you knew that, I'm sure.

[Toogeloo]

If you would be so kind panda as to answer mine.

If you are referring to my Hindu read, I covered that already (assuming you are reading). If you are referring to some other question I may have glossed over, you might need to remind me.

And I am guessing that you no longer have Governing/Mayoral/ElPresidente powers when you say you were thinking this was a different game?

Would you at least enlighten me as to your opinion on AJ's claim then (just for good measure), and my personal opinions regarding it as well?

[Toogeloo]

toog's post 369... just read that again. advocating the waste of a day to test a claim, on the basis of oh hey maybe night actions might be good for us.

3 Things come out of it, all pro-town.

1. AJ's claim is corroborated, and thus (more than likely) proves him to be town since Scum Unlynchable would be borked.
2. Forces Scum to have to sort AJ since he is more than likely to be confirmed town due to said unlynchable and they can't deal with him during the day.
3. Everyone is a power role, with no flip (if AJ is truthful), we all can come into Day 2 with Night Actions under our belt and move forward from there.

If AJ is lying, he is lynched, and no harm no foul in all reality. If we lynch him without forcing town claims, scum are blind as to who has the most potent powers to deal with and will more than likely off their scariest threat personality wise.


I'm throwing this out as an option, I'm not saying it has to be done, but it should at least be on the table for discussion and opinion.

[Toogeloo]

a bear

ill have you know im actually the black man in the picture. thanks.

I think he's referring to Tibbers, which Vote Count is definitely insinuating RC as Double Voter with Tibbers.

I'm not sure why all of a sudden Rasko decided to go full League talk in his posts, but whatever, but yeah, I actually do take Teleport a lot, several health pots, and don't try to push my lane opponent too hard without support (when I played). I never played League so religiously that I was ever actually good at it. I'm not good at PvP games in general actually. I played League because I like the characters, and a ridiculous amount of my League play was actually against Bots. I never made it past level 22 since I lost interest in the game after that. I hope that helps you with your League read of me.

Hindu is a town read to me because he is thinking like with me without actually buddying. I feel like most of his posts are the same exact reactions I have, ergo if he thinks like me, it's likely to coming from the same alignment that I would be making those thoughts (ala town mindset).

And yes, I am voting a null read because I don't ever have strong "Burn it with Fire" vibes on Day 1. I town hunt, wagon, and move on from flips. Look at my game history and you'll see that I do that regardless of alignment, it's how I play. Anyone who says they know for fact that someone is scum on Day 1 is generally full of shit. Town reading someone simply means they pulled the wool over your eyes if they end up being scum. Scum reading someone means they are more than likely playing like crap (as either alignment), or you feel like you know their town game well enough and you aren't seeing it (which can be because of a multitude of factors including their role, real life, etc...). Since we are blind to alignment, I prefer town reading as a better route since I prefer to lynch the guilty and not just assume guilt, and use my votes as pressure and not as a death tunnel and it's generally easier to hunt via process of elimination.


DrDolittle is a town read (still) because of his entrance in the game, FA. It's called gut, and it hasn't changed.


I'm sure someone else asked me something, and I'm not sure who, so whatever.

[Toogeloo]

Who's bear?

I thought maybe he was just referring to me.

I think people haven't played with Hippie enough AJ, also, how do you feel about my "plan" to have you lynched today?

[Toogeloo]

Unvote; Vote: Klazam

Gut-scum read. Super fluffy posts, his only real scum push was against me for saying we should lynch AJ, and then backed off super quick after a very short explanation as to why I thought it would be pro-town. ISO this guy and tell me I'm not wrong here.

[Toogeloo]

Lynchproof isn't exactly a common town modifier.

I'd hope to god it's an even less (hopefully non-existent) scum modifier.


...


And there's the OMGUS ladies and gents. lol at his scum reads too.

[Toogeloo]

Pretty sure he's still not even a lead wagon, or at the very least he's tied with your ABR wagon.

[Toogeloo]

Looks like a 3 way tie atm between Hindu, ABR (with Tibbers), and Klazam.

Plus this is more of a Flash Wagon since it just started, which means that if anything it's countering the other wagons in the game at the moment.

[Toogeloo]

Why is everyone but the people voting for Klazam, ignoring Klazam?

[Toogeloo]

DrD, since you have a scum read on Klazam, why don't you compromise and put him in the lead instead of keep a competing wagon in Hindu going.

FA, there is a reason I don't play more than 1 game at a time, and you clearly need to consider doing so as well as it is evident that you aren't really giving this game enough attention and things have to be constantly broken down for you to understand what is going on.

[Toogeloo]

Let's also be clear, not everyone knows how many games everyone is playing at any given time, and it's generally assumed that full attention is given at all times in the games you play. So Hindu feeling like you are putting zero effort into this game doesn't give you the excuse to say "well pardon me, but I'm in too many games," as it's only a scapegoat while Hindu's read on your slot is absolutely legitimate because of the way you are coming off in this game. I called you a VI for the same reasons, I felt like things just kept going over your head, but you being in multiple games puts things in greater perspective.

You are going to get razzed and you are going to have people scum reading you for your efforts in this game, and no one is going to give two shits about how full your plate is because you made a commitment to play this game.

[Toogeloo]

Holy shit at the noise that FA and Dwlee generated.

FA seems to be taking things personal which don't come off (at least to me) as personal attacks. Dwlee's case, while shit, wasn't personal, but FA either deserves some kind of Mafia Oscar, or is an extremely fragile person that probably shouldn't be playing Mafia at all.

@Dr.: Sorry, I must have mixed you up with Raskol. At the time, it was Klazam and Hindu tied at 3 votes each, and I was trying to beseech someone from the Hindu Wagon who was scum reading Klazam to switch sides.


I think the "Counter Wagon" arguments need to cease. This seems like a reach considering that at no point has anyone gotten to L-2 or closer, and there has almost always been 3 wagons going at any given time. When steam dissipates, or lack of support, a new wagon forms. This seems more like standard Day 1 Wagoning, and anyone who thinks that their scum read is getting out of trouble by a developing counter wagon is full of themselves or completely delusional at the state of the game.

Day is getting boring. There are too many lines in the sand, and a lynch needs to happen. So unless you can literally confirm someone is town, you need to be a little more flexible and maybe start looking at your null reads as good places to park a vote to end the day (mostly directing this at the players who are being obstinate with their vote). It's fine to be paranoid about Day 1 lynches, but it's not fine to hold a game hostage because you can't get the lynch you want.

[Toogeloo]

[5:01]

Dramonic (Xerath):

Ganking bot!

Klazam (4): Toogeloo, Albert B. Rampage, Hinduragi, Raskolnikov
Hiplop (3): RadiantCowbells, Klazam, Frozen Angel
Frozen Angel (2): dwlee99
Hinduragi (2): DrDolittle, Aj The Epic
Raskolnikov (2): Hiplop, hi im Yakko
Aj the Epic (1): The Bulge

Not Voting:

It is 7 to force someone to solo Baron. Baron spawn is in 5 days and 21 hours...

I was under the impression that RC was the double voter, but I guess this confirms Dwlee.

Also, considering that Klazam, Hiplop, Dwlee, AJ, ABR, Hindu, FA, Raskol, and possibly others have all had 3 votes or more at some point (and as far as I know the highest the vote count has gotten is 4 votes on the leader), and none of them are completely clear, I'm not entirely sure how RC can see scum doing nothing but letting town self destruct.

[Toogeloo]

Also, personally requesting that Bulge either be force replaced or lynched. What a waste of space.

[Toogeloo]

Unvote
Vote: Raskol

[Toogeloo]

That should be L-2.

[Toogeloo]

Anyone not voting me or Raskol at this point should be taking a stance, I'm pretty sure I have enough people who want me lynched where it could happen, so if you aren't on one of our two wagons, you need to be.

[Toogeloo]

I'm Jarvan IV, my passive is golden aegis and it prevents my target from dying that night. I can also self target so I was gonna do that all game t_t

Your Passive ability? Wouldn't that be your Active ability?

I feel like you are far too calm over your lynch to be our doctor. Which team are you on?

[Toogeloo]

I have Passive and Active abilities, so it would seem off that you only said Passive.

[Toogeloo]

Toog, do you want that question answered?

Nah, it wasn't a super important question, it'll probably be revealed on his flip anyways.

[Toogeloo]

Can we please finish this... enough procrastinating.

[Toogeloo]

I appreciate you making me slightly less likely to be night killed.

Is that an admittance that you know Raskol is flipping scum?

[Toogeloo]

do we all agree on RC insta lynch tomorrow if rasko flips scum?

I'd be fine with this as a dying man's wish.

I also really want to lynch Bulge for that terrible twilight prod dodge post....

Caught up btw. Ok with the rask lynch, those fake hammer reactions were laughable.

Hoping to be far more active Day 2 as my life is clearing up a little bit and I tend to usually slip through Day 1 anyway

...and his overall activity.


For now....

Vote: RC

[Toogeloo]

<3 Hippie.

[Toogeloo]

RC needs to die today. I mean seriously, he just claimed to kill the main player that started the Radio Lynch in the first place. If RC doesn't get lynched today, then there better be a god damn good reason why not. I don't believe for one second that he is a multishot vig either.

[Toogeloo]

Raskol* Lynch (auto correct)

[Toogeloo]

Oh, and by the way, I know for fact I was targeted by one or more people last night thanks to my passive ability.

[Toogeloo]

I don't really feel like arguing with idiots.

My role is confirmable. Lynch me D3 if I haven't confirmed myself by then.

Do you understand what I'm saying? I'm Annie.

So you can confirm that you have at least one shot. I mean, let's be honest, only one kill happened last night, why couldn't Mafia have done the kill (that's you) and then you use the extra kill to kill two people the next night, and then voila, you've apparently "confirmed" yourself.

Either I and scum targeted ABR together or scum were role blocked.

Why is it only those two options?

Concerned that I'm SK? maf will be forced to deal with me. now stop being idiots and unvote.

Yeah, if you are SK, mafia ain't going to touch you until after you've helped them do some heavy lifting since they are already down a member.

You can literally be claiming a cop inno on him and he is still getting shot tonight.

So you would kill not only the one player who kingpinned a Day 1 lynch of scum, and then threaten to kill a player that is being town read on multiple fronts without disregard, even if they had a innocent on them? And why do people want to hesitate lynching this?


What I do know is that there is no way you will convince me that you are a multi-shot vigilante.

[Toogeloo]

My role is Ascetizer. I make someone Ascetic for a night.

Remind me what an Asceticizer does again?

[Toogeloo]

I'm Sivir, Modified Jack.

I started the game with a Passive ability and 3 Active abilities, one of which is a Vigilante shot (Boomerang Blade). However, I

cannot

use my Vigilante shot (and one of my other abilities) unless my Passive triggers first. My Passive is that I started the game low on mana and the only ability I could use is Spell Shield (2 uses). If I am targeted at Night while Spell Shield is active, all actions used against me will fail, and then I will gain enough mana to use one of my other abilities (Vig shot and "undisclosed mystery ability"). I used Spell Shield last night, and I now have mana... hmm. So I know I was targeted by at least one action last night.

So I have to jump through hoops to get my Vigilante Shot, but RC apparently has multiple shots that he can fire off willy-nilly. On top of that fact, this is a mini... how many kills do we really think are plausible in a mini without unbalancing the setup?

[Toogeloo]

If you believed that I was scum the logical conclusion would be for you to believe that I'm fully making up my vig claim to buy another day.

I'm pretty sure I've stated several times your multi-shot vig role is bullshit.

[Toogeloo]

You're going down today RC. I like it when you squirm though, so keep doing it .

[Toogeloo]

Toog, you say your spell shield blocks ALL abilities used on you. Why did FA get not guilty?

I'm protected from all abilities used on me, that's all I know.

I will not die tonight. I can still use Spell Shield again if I have to. But if I use Spell Shield, I can't Vig, so we will be back in the same place tomorrow. RC is scrambling to buy time, whatever time he can. He wants to get back to night, he doesn't give two shits about the day phase. He wants to go as long as he can without dying. He needs to be lynched.

[Toogeloo]

FA CC'd that my Spell Shield didn't stop her Cop scan, I'm still CCing you about being a Vig. Wait for the Mod on her end, but it could be wording semantics since mine says I am protected from Night Actions, which means I would assume, that they fail to target me. Regardless, it's semantics and has nothing to do with you and me.

[Toogeloo]

FA, clarify your question to the mod to be:

"If a player uses an ability that protects him/her from Night Actions, would my Cop Scan still go through?"

[Toogeloo]

I will ask the same question as well, and we will share responses.

[Toogeloo]

Whats Spell Shield exactly? can you tell more details about it?

Twice in the game, I can activate it to protect myself from all actions used against me. If an ability targets me on a Night I use Spell Shield, I can then use my other two abilties, Vig shot and undisclosed ability.

[Toogeloo]

It should be noted, that after I use one of my other abilities, I have to use Spell Shield again, and be targeted again, in order to use the other ability.

[Toogeloo]

RC is being very survivalistic right now, whatever buys him as many days as he can get to fuck over town.

[Toogeloo]

You know what, fine. Let's trade shots. I'm guessing you are bulletproof too though, right... does your shot go through protections? Tell me more about yourself.

If you don't get lynched today, you are goddamn right I am aiming for you tonight.

[Toogeloo]

Yeah, I guess we just stalemate until mod shows up. Yay.

If we aren't lynching RC today, then I either want to lynch The Bulge, Klazam, or AJ (cuz if he's gonna hold the game hostage by not allowing RC's lynch he can at least confirm his own ass).

[Toogeloo]

dramonic just responded and said FA's scan should have failed.

[Toogeloo]

'not allowing RC's lynch'

you seem to be fighting allowing this game to go to night pretty hard.

Because Night is when Scum get to get away with Murder.

[Toogeloo]

In all honesty, the game might even be a bit broke at the moment with that mod error, but we'll see if dramonic makes a comment.

[Toogeloo]

FA is pretty much guaranteed town as well.

[Toogeloo]

In a mini game, I would be hard pressed to understand the balance of a two vig setup, especially one with multiple shots. However, since we know everyone has a power role of some type or another, and we know a Mafia Immunizer has flipped, and that I have the ability to stop actions against me, there is always the possibility more protection from kills exists, but still, lots of killing power can make a game become extremely lopsided very quickly.

[Toogeloo]

I mean seriously, I call bullshit on the possibility of multi-shot vig, but if there are doubters, I will still be fine with lynching any of my three previous choices (Bulge, Klazam, AJ). If we lynch AJ, and he stops it, we now have a ton of town confirmation and can PoE this game down even further.

RC humor me for a moment. With what you now know, who would you be shooting tonight? Would you still be shooting at me?

[Toogeloo]

And if there was scum on the Raskol lynch, the only person I could see it being would be Yakko.

[Toogeloo]

Who is the last banned besides myself and Frozen?

DrDolittle claimed as such.

[Toogeloo]

Hindu, you know that you can't Ascetic FA tonight, right?

[Toogeloo]

How would you feel about vigging one of Klazam or Bulge?

[Toogeloo]

I'm not saying I want to give you the chance, I want to know why or why not as to your shot picks.

[Toogeloo]

You basically asked for a leash, so I wanna get your shot mentality on other players. AJ seems adamant about stopping your lynch should it happen, so I want to have some accountability for your actions, and maybe direct you if you live so that you don't go off the cuff and kill my town reads.

@Mod: can you please confirm in thread the answer to these two questions:

1. If a town player has a role that protects them from actions at night, and they are cop scanned while using said action, what result would the cop receive?
2. Was there any accidental mod error last night that led to a player receiving information that they shouldn't have?

[Toogeloo]

Alright AJ, there you go. What do you want to do?

[Toogeloo]

Can we lynch him (AJ) today and if he's gov as he claims he OTs?

viglist:

yakko, klazam, drdolittle, the bulge

I approve of both these suggestions. My preference would be one of Klazam or Bulge first, but I don't think I really have a problem with any of those on the list eating a bullet tonight if RC is honest.

[Toogeloo]

So after PMing dram a couple more times myself, it seems that the "non-scum" result doesn't necessarily mean town, just so everyone is aware. Apparently I could just as easily be a Third Party role with that result sent back to FrozenAngel.

So that is why there is no real alignment reveal mod mistakes and dram will not acknowledge any as such. The game must go on, and nothing is broken here.

[Toogeloo]

Yeah, I know he declared V/LA in other games. We were probably in Night Phase during that time, so he didn't get around to posting it here.

[Toogeloo]

RC begging to survive a few more days is probably scum.

Why do you suddenly feel this

now

after I made a big thing of it yesterday and you voted me for it?

[Toogeloo]

We aren't lynching Yakko. His fake hammer buys him a pass in my opinion.

I think I should be the target of the Ascetic personally. Force scum to target me with a kill. I can protect FA tonight with my hidden ability, and guarantee she gets a scan off too.

Lynch AJ to prove his claim.

RC Vigs Klazam.

[Toogeloo]

FA would probably do best scanning one of Bulge or Yakko to further PoE the game.

[Toogeloo]

Oh, and my undisclosed ability is a protective redirection (Ricochet). I target Player A and redirect any actions used on them that night to a second target, Player B.

So if I am Asceticized, I can't be blocked, only killed. I Redirect any action used on FA to ensure she both lives and gets a scan. RC Vigs Klazam. We've determined AJ's alignment to a certain degree by testing him today, and we'll have the results of FA's scan tomorrow to work with.

[Toogeloo]

toog you're not shooting rc anymore?

No. We can deal with RC later, especially if he doesn't shoot Bulge or Klazam tonight. I also don't think we should allow Klazam to hammer because I don't want a Jailkeep stopping RC's shot, and it would appease AJ so that he can stop his own lynch without fear.

[Toogeloo]

RC's shot, if he shoots who we tell him to, will POE the field. If he doesn't shoot who we tell him to, he gets insta-lynched tomorrow.

I'm getting a gut feeling that RC might actually be telling the truth. Immunizer, Jailkeeper, my Spell Shield, any other unknowns like bulletproofs or doctors... there is a lot of potential to stop kills, so I'm warming up to the idea that RC might actually be telling the truth, or at the very least could be beneficial on a leash this early in the game.


PEdit: No, I need to be Asceticized so that I can fully protect FrozenAngel from all night actions that target her. If I can't be blocked, she can't be killed or blocked.

[Toogeloo]

It's possible that I was targeted for Night Kill last night, and my Spell Shield stopped it. If that's the case, there "might" be scum in one of the people who were preaching me town yesterday (Hippie or Hindu), but I'm not going to worry about that now. Just try to keep it in mind down the road if we get to a point where all we have left is town reads and conf-towns.

[Toogeloo]

And yes, I know that me being Asceticized opens me up to being an easy kill, but protecting Frozen Angel and giving her another scan is of higher importance I think.

Of course, I could also be WIFOMing scum and I might just use my second Spell Shield tonight too ^_~.

[Toogeloo]

If I'm not getting asceticized then you should be shooting me because otherwise I'll (most likely) be role blocked and not get my shot off and then be lynched tomorrow.

We'll worry about that tomorrow. If you don't shoot, it's not nearly as bad as if you shoot someone we don't want you to shoot, so I'd be ok with it tbqh. Let's just hope you can shoot and then worry about what tomorrow brings us.

[Toogeloo]

Is there a particular flaw you see in my plan RC?

[Toogeloo]

I'm willing to have my shot leashed on the condition that we lynch Toogeloo first, btw.

You were cool with being leashed if I was the lynch

[Toogeloo]

I don't like this plan.

What reservations do you have?

[Toogeloo]

FA is going to Scan, I am going to use my ability to protect FA. The plan really only hinges on Hindu Asceticizing me to ensure I don't get blocked. Everyone else can go about their nightly rituals. Lynching AJ is just something I think would be beneficial for another confirmed town, but I couldn't care less if we lynch Bulge, Klazam, Dr.D, or AJ.

[Toogeloo]

Dr.D and Bulge both over 2 days out at this point. Yakko is at least V/LA.

What's everyone's consensus on how to proceed? Lynch AJ? ...or Lynch one of Bulge, or Dr.D, or someone else?

I think enough talk has been done about Night Actions. Hindu will do what ever it is he is going to do. If that is Asceticize me or Asceticize RC, it's his choice.

Scum will have to figure out if they want to try and block me, FA, or RC and take a risk on who to kill as well (because they will have to waffle between shooting me if I protect FA or shoot FA if I WIFOM them and Spell Shield instead).


At any rate, the day is now stalling, so we should start making a few decisions here.

[Toogeloo]

You have 3 votes rn, toog, since fa doesnt want them apparently.

I want to get a consensus from other players as well, some accountability and stances and what not. So far, ever since FA and I have resolved, it's basically just been "whatever you want."

Is AJ ok with being tested?
Would we rather not test him and just lynch someone else?

These should really be answered as a whole group instead of directed by one individual.

[Toogeloo]

nagging feeling in my gut that game didn't get called because at least one of you/toog is 3rd party/scum

This isn't the day to worry about it though. You want to Deus Ex the end game, then by all means worry about it then. But for now, you get a cop saying a player isn't scum, you don't just auto assume faulty scan right away.

If it makes you feel better, I can absolutely see you as scum who hard-bussed his partner, so there's that.

I'm fine with a DrD lynch. I really don't think we

have

to test AJ, he hasn't really fought the concept tooth and nail, and the idea that an unlynchable scum exists seems bastard to me anyways.


I don't want to vig RC tonight because I want to protect myself or FA instead. To much can go wrong with taking the Vig shot, like FA dying or not getting a scan, me or RC being blocked, whatever. Protect the town reads, and take the shots when you can. Since RC is unlimited Vig, she can keep the scummy players in check while FA finds another town (Hindu or Hippie would be great scans).

[Toogeloo]

Oops, meant to do this as well:

Vote: Dr.Donothing

[Toogeloo]

VOTE: Klazam

How about we lynch this instead?

I'm not sure Dweelee's scum FA.

Just shoot him tonight (or Bulge). We'll handle the survivors tomorrow.

[Toogeloo]

toog, the way you prove you're not SK is by shooting who we decide.

No, the way I prove I am town is by protecting the Cop. Don't be dumb.

[Toogeloo]

Again, worry about whether I'm third party or not if I am still alive after a few more days. For now, assume the Cop scan is accurate. To play any other way is both paranoid and awful.

[Toogeloo]

2 person mafia team with 3 votes sounds legit

2 person Mafia and a 3rd Party wouldn't be balanced in an all power setup. I'm not ruling out 3rd Party, but I would be shocked if it's just a 2 man Scum team. I do think all the speculation about 3rd Party is kind of stupid right now though as there really is no grounds to suggest one exists outside of paranoia.

I am NOT going to use my Spell Shield tonight. I am ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY going to use my Redirection on FrozenAngel tonight. At this point I WANT scum to shoot me. You'll drop the whole paranoid about 3rd Party schtick, FA will get a second scan guaranteed, which will give you just as much info tomorrow as we have today, minus whomever RC Vigs (assuming not blocked) and who we lynch today.

If you guys want to continue pushing the idea that I am 3rd Party, then I can't get out of this game fast enough due to sheer stupidity of my fellow town members. I'm sounding like a broken record here, but today is NOT the day you worry about a faulty cop scan. We have plenty to work with for today that worrying about whether or not FA or I is legit should even be something to be considered. This is Mafia 101 people. If someone is scanned non-scum, you assume Occam's Razor first, and then reconsider it later once the status quo has changed and Occam's Razor no longer seems to apply.

Unvote;
Vote: Klazam

[Toogeloo]

Regardless of what Klazam flips, RC should be vigging one of DrD or Bulge, and FA should be scanning one of Hippie or Hindu in my opinion.

DrD claimed Miller as well, so no point scanning him, he's only vig or lynch worthy. A scan on Hippie or Hindu will help the activity of the game moreso if they come back non-scum.

[Toogeloo]

Don't scan AJ. He's not active enough to warrant the scan, and can be lynched tomorrow given the info we will have to work with after tonight's actions.

[Toogeloo]

Can't you just hammer him with your one vote?

[Toogeloo]

Well, can you self-vig?

(in all seriousness, im ok with a DDL frying, then bulge, then idk, maybe whoever FA didnt clear.)

That's actually not a bad idea :p ... In all seriousness though, Dr.D is a great shot due to his limited activity, and inability to be scanned as non-scum.

I am not shooting RC tonight. Protecting FA is

WAY

more important.

Also, I am having two surgeries over the next few weeks. If I'm still alive after Night Phase, expect limited activity during my few moments of coherency.

[Toogeloo]

Unless the wool has been completely pulled over my eyes, Final Scum Members are in Bulge, Dr.D, Klazam, and Hiplop. RC is likely SK if he's not town, but I seriously doubt he's mafia. Everyone else is a pretty solid town read of mine.

[Toogeloo]

im obvious town and you know it toog

Don't forget aj and hindu.

Hindu has a scummy fucking role to top it off

Hindu is my strongest town read of the non-confirms.

[Toogeloo]

You're only unlynchable if we actually lynch you and you prove yourself. Otherwise, it's just your word we have to take for it.

All the same, AJ is correct in that Governing a player tends to be a negative utility because it information denial, despite the fact that it's largely a town role. At the end of the day, we could just ignore AJ's claim for now, shoot him in the night, or lynch him tomorrow after we have another scan and more information to work with. Let's not forget that Klazam could also be simply saying what everyone wants to hear in the hopes of being governed and getting his Jailkeep ability at the same time for being the hammer.

[Toogeloo]

Yeah, not happening. There's 100% preventing my lynch is beneficial to the town. I'm not governing unless the same chance exists and is endangered more imminently. Call it self-preservation, I really don't care. I'll be forcing mafia to NK me if they don't want me showing up in lylo.

I highly doubt they would give two shits about you being in LyLo. You could still be mislynched if town, stop your lynch, and then still lose the game at night because they shoot someone.

[Toogeloo]

If you're trying to lynch me in that scenario, you're doing the game wrong.

Imagine yourself in a LyLo situation with a claimed Unlynchable/Govenor who hasn't proved himself all game. You would be a potential paranoia target for sure, all it would take is one town to fall for the gambit to push you, and it'd be the game.

[Toogeloo]

hey

So we won't see you until at least Monday with your semi-V/LA and all, so I'm glad your content on the 5 weekdays is so amazing .

[Toogeloo]

Well I had a terrible D1

but an excellent D2/N2.

I'm okay with this.

That's debatable. Dr.D was the only person you should have shot since he was Miller claimed. Your Day 2 play was pretty bad though, seriously, you were very anti-town most that day.

This game was good, but felt like once mass claims became a thing, it was pretty easy to swing the game into Town's favor. I don't think Mafia had enough active abilities personally, like, they probably would have benefited from the Jailkeeper being on their team for Roleblock and protection from 2 Vigs.

The mod error, from my perspective, really did make the game town's to lose, and that opened up the whole paranoia thing, which luckily we never had to deal with because PoE finished the game.

[Toogeloo]

I also would be interested in Night Actions and Scum/Dead chat if they exist.

[Toogeloo]

Lol, Hindu was like the most likely to be scum from a lot of the town players (sans yours truly), and scum thought he should be shot Night 1 instead of literally anyone else.

[Toogeloo]

And that's why your ego will get you in trouble.