Shaman Mafia [Endgame]

[Staeg]

Tempted to confirm katsuki

vote: katsuki

instead

[Staeg]

Realtalk. Am I actually sticking my neck out here? People were going to be confirmed eventually. I just took out the middle man. There were two options and I just took the stab first. People would have started arguing and someone would have done what I did somewhere down the line to stop whatever senseless discussion usually comes from trying to game a setup.

So I just do it straight away. What I'm saying is that if it wasn't me, it would have been someone somewhere.

Also, if we gonna get these every day, do we want another marketplace 2? <- My cognitive process.

Did you assume that ~no amount~ of thought could be put into the choices?

ogod I'm lost already

What motivated you to write this post?

What exactly do we accomplish when we fill all parts of the ritual? Do the participants get powers or something?

Like I assume there are consequences for allowing scum on them.

Is there like a wiki for this game lol

Have you ever played a theme game before?

Also, I wouldn't put it beyond Fate to give people nightmares from the ritual or something of the sort

[Staeg]

You're not doing so yet? Er?

[Staeg]

unvote
vote: Spiffeh

[Staeg]

You're not doing so yet? Er?

Yeah, sue me, I'm trying not to have one of these things where one head votes one person, one head votes the other, and we argue back and forth in thread like squabbling children, because it detracts from the morale of the town, is stupid, and is one of the reasons hydras can turn cancerous. Plus LLD is actually really good (even if people don't believe it) and serves to temper some of my more outrageous instincts. Feel free to ask your buddies if you can use that against us.

If you haven't refreshed your memory, hi, I'm GreyICE, you'll be shooting me tonight, so just relax and pick one of you to throw in front of me, because I've been out for a bit and now I need fresh meat. I'll even give you a headstart on polishing the fakeclaim.

You're already arguing in-thread and voicing outright opposite opinions tho
LLD says "I wanna hang so bad buut probably VI I'll hold off" and you go "nope can hang, is good"

and I remember you, vaguely, and we don't have daytalk so I guess I have to wait until tomorrow to throw dirt on you.

[Staeg]

Er, that part about the varying opinions is regarding Esp, obviously

[Staeg]

he actually has this amazing role where he gets to defile night actions through the dream realm (something something shamans are gullible fools)

[Staeg]

Probably

[Staeg]

@Steag
What's your read on them appearing to have different opinions in the hydra, i.e. what is the purpose of that line of questioning?

It tells me that they're clowns, especially as GI appears to think that he hasn't shown any hydra dissonance in-thread yet, but I already knew this, so that line of reasoning ended with his expert scumhunting tactics causing me to scumclaim in-thread

[Staeg]

I myself would love to be called a clown, I do not understand why you take offense

[Staeg]

@Steag
What's your read on them

appearing

to have different opinions in the hydra, i.e. what is the purpose of that line of questioning?

Why was that word there?

[Staeg]

Every inch of my gut right now wants to hang you, but this just feels too bold to be scum. Just too much sticking it in the face of the town for it to come from that alignment... I could be double bluffed here, but I don't think it likely.

I, on the other hand, am perfectly fine with hanging Espy by her scrawny neck and waiting until her body stops twitching for Fate to give us results on the corpse.

If Espy was some VI then I might have some hesitation, but this was a calculated fucking move if I've ever seen one. Like if someone dropped into thread and dayvigged Espy, I would cheer like fuck, because I have zero faith in them being town

This indicates that GI doesn't care about being dissonant in-thread. So the default explanation of him not voting because of hydra dissonance couldn't apply.

But then that's how he answered anyway, so woops

[Staeg]

Staeg, what do you think of GreyIce implying scum have daytalk?

What do you think about me responding as if he hadn't stated anything extraordinary

That entire post was actually fake and not filled with... anything at all, now that I think about it

unvote
vote: Egg

(also I didn't get the obvious reference to the role PMs in the same post, oops?)

[Staeg]

Did Staeg ever give an opinion on Yakko throughout his whole interaction w/ LLD/GreyICE?

Because if not I kinda want him dead.

nope, I dodged that perfectly, because about 1/2 of the people who have posted so far seem to have their pants equipped on the wrong end about just as much as yakko and I apparently can't tell the difference between town and scum doing that

[Staeg]

Also what dissonance? Egg is scum? We both agree on this. Yakko hadn't posted much of anything last time LLD was on, if he had (especially stuff like that) she'd be on him like white on rice.

hello, I apologize for apparently being vague and not quoting this when I pointed it before you asked this and later as a response, but

Er, that part about the varying opinions is regarding Esp, obviously

Every inch of my gut right now wants to hang you, but this just feels too bold to be scum. Just too much sticking it in the face of the town for it to come from that alignment... I could be double bluffed here, but I don't think it likely.

I, on the other hand, am perfectly fine with hanging Espy by her scrawny neck and waiting until her body stops twitching for Fate to give us results on the corpse.

If Espy was some VI then I might have some hesitation, but this was a calculated fucking move if I've ever seen one. Like if someone dropped into thread and dayvigged Espy, I would cheer like fuck, because I have zero faith in them being town

This indicates that GI doesn't care about being dissonant in-thread. So the default explanation of him not voting because of hydra dissonance couldn't apply.

But then that's how he answered anyway, so woops

and yes, GI,

I agree with ushiro-chans sentiment that it is very conspicuous as scum to do such a move. If espie was scum. Hitogoroshi sounds genuine especially with his speculation about the setup early game. He was thinking about it; now all potentially wasted time.

I was also thinking if it was even possible for espeonage to even confirm multiple volunteers. My personal preference would have been to ignore the ritual and focus on good ole mafiers. My headaches and I'm hungry :/.

UNVOTE: I'm no longer in rvs.

does seem like stupidity to me

[Staeg]

you are a godlike mafia player teach me

[Staeg]

Vote Yakko or die motherfucker

mmok

[Staeg]

Hey Staeg, do you think Egg is bussing Yakko?

Well my vote is on him for vague reasons and Yakko is a special breed
So no, that wouldn't be a what I think.

[Staeg]

What do you think about me responding as if he hadn't stated anything extraordinary

Well, you pointed it out but I couldn't really tell if you had an opinion on it. Do you think he slipped knowledge of daytalk? Do you think he was trying to get a reaction out of you? Do you think it was meaningless? I'm trying to figure out if you're slinging mud or if you actually saw something and you aren't really being cooperative. Can you guess which way I'm leaning?

Okay, so half-witty short posts apparently aren't working, so let's switch tactics. I don't think him implying scum daytalk is indicative of alignment. I also don't think he was trying to get a reaction out of me - it's just the rhetoric that GI is so fond of. You, on the other hand, appear to be asking questions with some amount of thought behind them, but if you had actually read my exchange with GI, you could see that I had explicitly replied to his mention of daytalk by going along with it. Given this information, how many answers would you say "Do you think GI implying scum daytalk is significant?"
I am inclined to ask simply because I had already somehow interacted with GI on the topic of daytalk. So, it seems to me that you would have gained more information by asking ~literally anyone else~ about the same question.

nope, I dodged that perfectly, because about 1/2 of the people who have posted so far seem to have their pants equipped on the wrong end about just as much as yakko and I apparently can't tell the difference between town and scum doing that

Dodging an opinion on the lead wagon is shitty even if you admit that's what you are doing.

I don't think any part of my exchange with GI has been serious since one of the first posts. You can tell this from both sides by looking for mentions of "clown" in my posts and GI's responses to "dissonance" in his. Moreover, if you read really carefully, you can actually tell that I gave a null read in that post (as GI has been so kind to point out).

Hey Egg, nothing in my role PM indicates I know anything about the ritual. Do I nominate myself for Father Sky

I typed a paragraph and realized I don't want scum knowing any of what I said, so short answer: I don't think there's any harm in it.

This is not good. Not after you stated that "it should be incredibly obvious". What lead you to post that first thought about the ritual? You seemed sure that every other townie would be able to tell at a glance.

[Staeg]

AP WHY ARE YOU VOTING SPIFFEH

I dunno, he hasn't done anything that looks all that town?

In fact, hes trying to pretend that he read all of Nacho's post and comprehended it and read it as pretty scummy.

In 2 minutes of time.

Ugh.

Why did it take you three attempts to answer the question?

ಠ_ಠ

unvote
vote: Spiffeh

Why did you make this vote?

His unawareness that he is in a theme game followed by

Yakko if you're no longer in RVS who are you scum reading?

which just looks like an attempt to appear productive (as well as the post he is referring to was filled with general void of meaning, which I STILL think is a sign of suboptimal thought processes (I can't really tell why any alignment would have made that post))


I am more than slightly confused about both hito and GI continuing to rail on about the vote question. So, hito: did you read my inner monologue about hydra dissonance?
(also re: hito - I'm glad that you noticed how blatantly I changed tactics, because shortposts didn't appear to be getting enough attention to even convince GI to interact with me outside of get-outta-my-way-chainsawscum rhetoric, but that didn't work either ;_;)

I'd be much more comfortable in living with him if he elaborated on his Yakko read (at this current moment, it feels like he's just pushing back against UshiromayaAnge for the sake of pushing back) and if he developed his Egg push further (or, as I believe the push is misguided, looked somewhere else).

Null. I'm pushing back against UA because they haven't raised any valid points. As a response to my null read, they state that I conveniently write off a scummy post as stupid while providing an example of the sheer stupid.
About Egg: the first post was nothing with a ribbon around it. The reference to role PMs is bad, because it does

nothing

to provide new information: either the people who have access to the obvious information already know it or they're not going to find it anyway (no matter if it's everyone or just some that have the information, apologies for the misinterpretation). That part comes across "woo look guys I know what a town role PM looks like".
Then there's a (repeat) question to Yakko, see my response earlier in this post re: Spiffeh vote. Except this is way worse, because Spiffeh had asked that exact same question already. Which he ackownledges in his post. What?

Then, more recently, there's dancing around information about the ritual... which he has stated that he doesn't want to discuss.
The banter about Camn replacing in also sounded fake af, but that's just the cherry.

None of the other wagons really interest me; spiffeh is very slightly scummy, AP is slightly town.

VOTE: Bella
The last time you were scum you copied my reads and was friendly in your approach like your Esp. posts so I wanted to see what you would say about AP before I switched (I now think he is more likely to be town after understanding what he meant...), but by now it's pretty obvious if you are reading along so it makes little sense to wait, but you are not allowed to coast .

What is this referring to? Why do you believe that Bella is coasting, not merely absent?

[Staeg]

So you think that a vote on Bella is quite literally better than a vote on any of the players who have posted thus far, correct?

[Staeg]

Alright then

[Staeg]

For the record, I don't think that's any good as far as thinking goes, either

[Staeg]

I mean - the person hasn't posted since page 1. What information is your vote giving you?

[Staeg]

which just looks like an attempt to appear productive (as well as the post he is referring to was filled with general void of meaning, which I STILL think is a sign of suboptimal thought processes (I can't really tell why any alignment would have made that post))

Really? You don't see a single issue with Yakko doing that? Even if you don't agree, you don't get why someone else would?

It's not alignment-indicative is my point. Why would you, as scum, unvote and say "I'm out of RVS now whoop"? (I don't know why town would, either, but that's sort of my point)

About Egg: the first post was nothing with a ribbon around it. The reference to role PMs is bad, because it does nothing to provide new information: either the people who have access to the obvious information already know it or they're not going to find it anyway (no matter if it's everyone or just some that have the information, apologies for the misinterpretation). That part comes across "woo look guys I know what a town role PM looks like".

Basically, the ritual mechanic is so non-normal that I can see people being confused even if they don't have what I think is obvious info. Hell, I've got it and I'm still confused. My theory is still just a theory but I think it's the obvious answer if you have a PM similar to mine. And as for the last part about a town PM, no. I bet some scum have what I have and I bet some town don't. I don't think it's an alignment thing and I don't think we want the scum who have it to be a part of the ritual. If you don't know what I mean by this point, please don't continue this discussion.

If scum have the info you have, what is wrong with discussing it?

Then there's a (repeat) question to Yakko, see my response earlier in this post re: Spiffeh vote. Except this is way worse, because Spiffeh had asked that exact same question already. Which he ackownledges in his post. What?

This is much more simple than you think. I saw Yakko's post. I typed out the question. I saw that Spiff already asked. And I hate trying to remove things from my posts because I'm a phone poster and that's a pain in the ass.

More of a pain than quoting another post and commenting on it...

Then, more recently, there's dancing around information about the ritual... which he has stated that he doesn't want to discuss.The banter about Camn replacing in also sounded fake af, but that's just the cherry.

The ritual might be important, believe it or not. And the Camn stuff is just me being excited to play with someone I haven't played with in so long. I guarantee you it's not fake and I'd say the same stuff as scum and it wouldn't be fake then either.

It was the "oh, but then again telling them this might have revealed who I am... aw shucks..."


Copper... she hasn't entered the thread since page 1. We already went over this. You have a vote on a person who isn't present, and you're claiming that it gives more information. What. information.?
And no, I don't think that questioning her before she's even had a single non-RVS post is productive. Sure, don't quicklynch the biggest wagon, but are you saying that your vote would do no better on any other person than Bella and Yakko?
As for my reads... since my posts apparently phase through several dream realms before arriving at everyone's browsers, it's Egg, very slightly spiffeh, and now you.

[Staeg]

Could think the RVS vote looks bad either because serious posts have been made or because he was voted for making multiple RVS votes. Could be trying to be the "good townie" by moving forward. Could be looking for an excuse to unvote. There are a lot of reasons and very few are town. But my biggest issue with it is that he didn't try to advance the game by voting someone, which would have also been the indicator that he was truly out of RVS. I think he was going for the apearance of being out of RVS rather than actually being there which is scummy regardless of why he wanted that appearance.

1 - no, it doesn't, that's dumb.
2 - yes, because if you jump through enough mental loopholes you can actually think that that would be beneficial as town as well as as scum.
3 - why would he need an excuse to unvote?
4 - yes, they're all batshit stupid. This goes towards the rest of it. You can't feasibly imagine any player going "yeahhhh I'll unvote, say I'm out of rvs AND THEN NOT VOTE ANYONE" - it's a sign of dust and tumbleweeds behind the eyes, not alignment.

What is the point of this line of questioning?

I already told you. It looks like "look at me doing things!" while not actually doing things. I've phoneposted with multiquotes and repeated deletion of previous quotes - it's not that difficult (the drag and cut tool, indeed).

Copper, to be fair I don't see the difference between information gathering and getting information.

The difference is in the time-frame, I said it would help me read Bella better, once she replies, Staeg implied I said it would give me information the second I voted, and since that is not true (by definition basically) he now has a scum-read on me, which is why I called it a misrep.

What in the Great Spirit's name is this?
What I outright said - not implied - is that your vote is doing jack shit right now. I don't care what massive yields it will get in a day or two - I asked you if there was nothing more productive you could be doing instead of going "MORE PYLONS ARE BEING CONSTRUCTED just waiting for my information gathering to come in don't mind me".



Brian Skies has failed to say anything interesting, but camn's condemnation of him is dubious at best.

[Staeg]

What in the Great Spirit's name is this?
What I outright said - not implied - is that your vote is doing jack shit right now. I don't care what massive yields it will get in a day or two - I asked you if there was nothing more productive you could be doing instead of going "MORE PYLONS ARE BEING CONSTRUCTED just waiting for my information gathering to come in don't mind me".

Implying that if I don't vote someone (also active at the same time clearly) in every post that I make I can't be productive, I'd say the latest 2 pages (of interactions between me and x) show how BS your argument is, plus points for the Protoss reference though. How do you feel about the town-read AP gave you?

That's not the implication. The implication is that you're outright choosing not to use a resource which you could be using.
No thoughts on the townread aside from the fact that he (along with everyone else that's townreading me (wait and everyone else not townreading me, too, huh)) appears to not have noticed (or not cared for) my squabble with GI and him going out of his way not to respond to me--

But based on your post though, I guess you assume I'm lying about that?

Mm no I suppose that would be a bit too much, this point can sleep with the fishes.

[Staeg]

unvote
vote: copper

you hold on, though, Egg

[Staeg]

If this were a newbie I'd call Yakko a false positive.

How does him being out of a newbie impact this judgement?

Ok.

VOTE: Yakko

Hello friends I am now here what is this? Did hito's argument convince you so much that you're willing to go against your beliefs of not lynching this early?



No changes on the Yakko front - dude's still trying his best (or trying everything in a row that one can think of; the latter, actually).



Re-read a bit and came to the conclusion that I don't like Espy's early posts (turns out I had asked a question of him, but that not being answered is only in line with expectations), 485 is questionable and I can't see relatability in his analysis of spiffeh's thought process (spiffeh has done the mentioned things far more than just wrt nacho, spiffeh's 488 is on point) and 486 is terrible as it does nothing but come up with excuses for both possible Yakko flips from the presumption that nacho is scum.

[Staeg]

I would also vote Yakko but I'm not a fan of lynching early, so that should answer the Ushiro vs Yakko question.

Because Bella lurking after asking me to play the game is also potentially scummy, because up to now Yakko was getting pressured well enough without my vote and because I am not a fan of early D1 lynches, is there a reason why you are asking me to repeat myself?

From here I get the impression that the problem isn't that the Yakko case is not convincing, but rather that you are not comfortable with lynching this early. Is this impression wrong?

[Staeg]

If I knew Yakko got a scum PM, I'd be fine lynching him 30 seconds into the day, since I don't, lynching early without huge conviction is a gamble I don't like to take. In particular all the early pressure coming to bear on him without much of an argument against his lynch made me wonder if scum was behind the push as well, if Yakko is town this is a fine wagon for scum to join, but if they are I don't see it and I would need a flip to re-evaluate anyway.

The alternative play would be to go ham on Bella and try to build her lynch up, which also carries it's risks. I know that Bella prefers scum, so while I can see lurking a bit as a possible strat. if she doesn't want to interact with players (maybe she has a history with Spiffeh?) her continuing to avoid the thread could also mean she got a town PM and decided to focus elsewhere because of time issues or whatnot, if I manage to get some people on board and it turns out this is the case I would have much rather had a Yakko flip.

I... apologize, but this does not appear to have in any way refuted what I asked. You previously stated that early lynches are bad, and that's the reason why you're not joining the yakko wagon, since otherwise he is scum.
Your answer, in this post, tells me that the yakko wagon might have been scum driven (although I believe this is the first time you mention this?), but a flip is the excellent remedy to all problems! Then you offer an alternative which still in no way addresses the contradiction that I pointed out in 526.

[Staeg]

Yakko, Staeg, why should we lynch copper?

No reason actually

unvote
vote: Espy

wagons yay

[Staeg]

I'm not sure if I'm playing the same game (or speaking the same language) as copper; somewhat related, the word "meta" (and its various synonyms) has been used far too much in this thread.
Am not liking BS posts.
Am not liking Egg even more explicitly (what is it with people not reading other people's posts this game.?).
Toogeloo is the nicest and warmest townsperson around.

TTH, what exactly about 422 doesn't give you enough information on why UA changed directions?

[Staeg]

Actually, TTH, what do you even think of yakko?

[Staeg]

I also didn't interpret yakko's post as a claim fyi, it fits in perfectly with the coherence and sense of his other posts rather neatly

[Staeg]

vote: TTH

[Staeg]

I just remember Staeg slipping into non-entity status when the pressure on him subsided.

Then I noticed he was on the TTH counter wagon.

I don't think that's the case; I've been a non-entity all game, seeing as the only person I've interacted with successfully is Egg

[Staeg]

I think Staeg's scum because he was the first to try and discredit UA's push on Yakko and he didn't do it by calling Yakko town, he said he was bad and hence... town, I don't follow the leap between him being bad and him being town, it is however a way to deflect from his lynch without having to justify your read.

Okay

A little bit of weak semantics and then nothing. He hadn't posted for >72 hours when I tried to get him to engage with his Copper vote, at which point he instead cheerfully disowned it to go vote for the biggest non-Yakko wagon. Doesn't feel that genuine to me.

I don't think that it's semantics. At the time it seemed like a fairly large inconsistency and the biggest lead I had. How would you imagine me engaging with my copper vote, given that everything I had to say was already on the table and the discussion w/ copper ended on a "let's agree to disagree" from copper?
Hito did you read this and deem it too retarded to even answer or what?

So, hito: did you read my inner monologue about hydra dissonance?

[Staeg]

Okay, "let's agree to disagree" is perhaps the wrong way to put it

[Staeg]

HEY STAEG. HOW ABOUT POSTING ANYTHING AT ALL THAT LOOKS PROTOWN? DO A LITTLE LEGWORK OR SOMETHING? WHY SHOULDN'T WE LYNCH YOU?

Do you want a readslist or something? More or less every question that I ask appears to disappear into the aether for all the responses they get

[Staeg]

Staeg: Justify your vote without quoting/hyperlinking to any specific posts.

The push on UA was questionable and I didn't really see how her position there changed when she acquired information from others. No development.
Then her reaction to the hammer was incredibly contrived and non-genuine. Nothing about copper's hammer was sudden. She had not even stated a clear stance on yakko by that point and then there's further involvement of UA's push on yakko making them town.

[Staeg]

Hito did you read this and deem it too retarded to even answer or what?

So, hito: did you read my inner monologue about hydra dissonance?

[Staeg]

Piece of shit game was shit.

[Staeg]

Seriously tho, was my play :horrible: to the point where even responding to me was a repetitive chore from attempt n=1?