Mini 1774: Formation of America's Mafiascum - Perfect Town W
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Suzune Mafia Scum
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In post 24, Firebringer wrote:In post 23, Klingoncelt wrote:In post 22, Firebringer wrote:Hey Klingoncelt, want to tag team these Traitorous rebels?
Sure - no, wait - TOWN is the traitorous rebels, you-you-Toryyou!
Just because the mod says so?
WELL, I AM FORMING A NEW REVOLUTION!
The town henceforth are the British.
The scum are the rebel yankees.
Technically speaking I suppose most of the townies are of British decent. But I think that is not the issue here.-
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Suzune Mafia Scum
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Really you think so? I get the impression from all my games with him that this is his general face of the game. Playful. It seems to be scummy and townie. Or at least I have lynched him for it when he was both town and scum.In post 84, Alchemist21 wrote:I honestly think this looks like his scumplay. Town firebringer is capable of trying.-
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Suzune Mafia Scum
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Right but assuming a townie is hated that would be putting them at l-2 is the same as putting them at l-1In post 103, Persivul wrote:Except if I had read the game I would have noted when I voted that it wasn't L-1, thus avoiding the whole controversy - duh.-
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Suzune Mafia Scum
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While it is true that mafia read the game topic more then townies, typically speaking, we should be careful of play that can be easily handwaved as a mistake because it creates a false sense of security.In post 121, Dierfire wrote:I actually like Persivul for Town here--I do think that the Mafia would read the game more thoroughly before casting a vote.
Kling what is you opinion on the gamestate. You have been very social but not yet critical. Same with you Firebringer.-
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Suzune Mafia Scum
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He was one of the earliest ones to bring up the protest mechanic. In this early phase of the game I think that should be our priority because we are still hunting for scum in the end. Most of his posts are questioning or correcting. With his read on Peri seeming kind of odd in the place it is in the game. I guess there is little evidence but when I was looking at earlier in the day I get a scummy feeling from it.-
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Suzune Mafia Scum
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Well at least I was honest about it.In post 150, beeboy wrote:In post 147, Suzune wrote:AS bad as this sounds firebringer, I initially always townread wgeurts. So since he is half the head, I tend to wait on that read. Listening to that slot gives me ideas on their alignment and I am not ready to make that kind of decision yet. I will keep you updated.
You're right this does sound bad.-
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Suzune Mafia Scum
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Suzune Mafia Scum
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Suzune Mafia Scum
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Why? Is being called out for tunneling better some how if it happens on page 14 or page 45? Also on the subject of tunneling I do not feel like Firebringer would have any reason to do this as scum because in the event he is wrong, that places all the focus on him as one of the main drivers of the train. For this reason, I think I can say with slight reasonablness right now that Firebringer is a slight town lead for me.In post 162, beeboy wrote:calling someone on tunneling on page 7 is bad.
I think that we can reasonably assume there is more then one mafia in this game. Therefore, it serves the town little value to quick lynch so early into day one. We should use this time to get reads on other players as well because this is a good time to do that. Town hunting is important too.In post 183, Firebringer wrote:How about you two stop fighting and we lynch widow attack
Well where do you stand? I have heard where Firebringer stands what is your position on it. Or is it a blind sheep?In post 200, Shiro wrote:Hey FB, Can Shiro sheep you and lynch scum? I trust you are town.-
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Suzune Mafia Scum
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I think the problem with Kill comes down to, at the very heart of it, that he is not doing anything. He spends all his post time complaining about what people say about him, defending himself, and nitpicking other people. But he never comes out and pushes for anything. That is what makes the defensiveness of the slot that much worse because we only ever see reaction. I am interested to see if they develop a little otherwise the cards are not stacked in their favour.
The only other slot that is currently up for suspicion on me is Shiro. I would like to hear from that slot quite a bit. Right now she(?) does not have any original posts that really discuss the game state. Shiro while I said this above, no one reads catch up posts, where do you stand? Discuss the gamestate with me.
p-edit- No I do not sheep people. Plus I would not want the round to end so early. This is a good chance to hear from and push many players. I think it is foolish to move for a quick lynch as it limits information.-
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Suzune Mafia Scum
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I do not believe I called you bad by any stretch of the imagination. You enjoy the risk. What is wrong with that. See I am beginning to think that kill is a better target or at the very least, I want to see where that goes. I will tell you the honest truth I never have seen vote count work as a way to find scum in a mafia game. Are you going to attempt it?
Wait, are you suggesting that it is a annoying to want to figure things out? Or the other way around?
p-edit, you are mentioning you do not like them kill. But you are doing little to engage them.-
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Suzune Mafia Scum
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Suzune Mafia Scum
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Okay since you think I cannot read, let's run though the game shall we. Or at least the beeboy parts:
186 You mention your opinion on them
188 You question if that is their typical play
191 You mention you have bad vibes
203 Vote order post
204 You think they are backtracking because beeboy said something about being the first on you
209 filler
210 Fight with window. You are not voting beeboy at this point
218 fight with window.
Am I missing something. If you feel strongly about it you do not push it or even vote for it. Instead you put more effort into your defense posts. This is why I find you not doing much.-
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Suzune Mafia Scum
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I guess we have a different definition of what pushing them looks like. Repeating what I disagree with you about does not make me believe it. I believe I explained what I saw therefore, I am not blind, just not seeing what you see. I am expecting more and with equal terms of engagement. Right now I have your attention, we can discuss things. That makes this a useful discussion.
Likewise, I tend to hold my vote until I am ready.-
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Suzune Mafia Scum
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In post 323, Shiro wrote:In post 322, Persivul wrote:In post 316, Shiro wrote:This is like the first time people are following me, this distresses me.
Why? Don't you think you have a good reason to vote me?
Yea but like, peopele didn't even discuss the reason, this was teh weirdset let's do this wagon ever, felt like RVS but all too late.
This game steels weird. People are jumping around no one really feeling or going with anything.-
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Suzune Mafia Scum
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i thought you were against this Shiro?In post 454, Shiro wrote:In post 453, Firebringer wrote:yeah...but i really want Widow to eat the rope today Shiro >.>
oh fine
Vote:Window-
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Suzune Mafia Scum
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well at least no one is hated anymore.In post 524, Persivul wrote:In post 523, Learned Hand wrote:The hated townie has lost their status as hated.
Oh yeah, I called that one baby...-
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Suzune Mafia Scum
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that is one of those game moves that will come back to bite you because behavior like that would be able to hang you easily if the suspicion begins to turn against him.In post 530, Persivul wrote:In post 529, Suzune wrote:Hm, gut feeling is that scum would not want to tunnel someone early game because the repercussions of that would damage a scum position late game.
How so?-
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i did not claim that he did. Since he is my town read and I placed a little hope in that slot i hiestly do not want to be wrong about the townieness.In post 537, beeboy wrote:FB put himself under literally 0 risk yesterday and I don't like the spin Suzune is putting on the situation-
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Suzune Mafia Scum
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i have a reason for it.In post 535, Persivul wrote:In post 226, Suzune wrote:Why? Is being called out for tunneling better some how if it happens on page 14 or page 45? Also on the subject of tunneling I do not feel like Firebringer would have any reason to do this as scum because in the event he is wrong, that places all the focus on him as one of the main drivers of the train.
How would he be wrong as scum? That makes no sense. You're quite defensive of FB, yesterday and today.
For this reason, I think I can say with slight reasonablness right now that Firebringer is a slight town lead for me.
Very defensive of him, but it still only amounts to a slight, slight town read...in case he flips red maybe?-
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Suzune Mafia Scum
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Well it would be interesting but if that were the case I would be the one having the fun.
Moves do not have to be universally risky. Sometimes one faction can preform moves more risky then another and some people have roles that require higher risks. Therefore, I claimed not risky behavior you instead looked for a window.
Say I am scum a few more times, I enjoy hearing the same untrue fact over and over.-
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Suzune Mafia Scum
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In post 564, beeboy wrote:In post 562, Suzune wrote:
i have a reason for it.In post 535, Persivul wrote:In post 226, Suzune wrote:Why? Is being called out for tunneling better some how if it happens on page 14 or page 45? Also on the subject of tunneling I do not feel like Firebringer would have any reason to do this as scum because in the event he is wrong, that places all the focus on him as one of the main drivers of the train.
How would he be wrong as scum? That makes no sense. You're quite defensive of FB, yesterday and today.
For this reason, I think I can say with slight reasonablness right now that Firebringer is a slight town lead for me.
Very defensive of him, but it still only amounts to a slight, slight town read...in case he flips red maybe?
Is the reason you being scum?
Nope. Good guess though. Like to guess again?-
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Suzune Mafia Scum
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It would have been a risky play if he was scum. This suggesting it is less risky of town. The two ideas are mutually exclusive, while inherently connected.
Actually I tow read window and he was town. My other strong tow read is probably town too so while even is not ideal, it is not terrible. However I suspect I am not wrong about one of them.
Thanks for saying I'm scum again. I am certain the mafia would want he town to think that. Since you are wrong I guess I can handle being called scum a few more times. At the end of the game I will have to apologize for making my posts snarky, but long train rides do that to me.-
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Suzune Mafia Scum
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oh beeboy, clearly I was teasing you. Sorry if you missed it.In post 574, beeboy wrote:She asked me to say it.
She is continueing to write a narrative where I am twisting her words which I am not doing.
I am obv town me and cakes would have scum reads on each other when we where both easy wagon contenders day 1 when we both don't like to bus.
I am so ok with my vote it isn't funny.
You are far from obvious town though.-
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Suzune Mafia Scum
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That is a catch 22. There is a mafia term for what I am looking for but I do not know it. Your line about how scum can have town reads proving I am scum is some kind f bad debating catch. What you said is the truth that it is easy for scum to have town reads, but that is irrelevant to the situation between us.
Why would you heart be broken? I do not understand.-
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Suzune Mafia Scum
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In post 581, beeboy wrote:In post 576, Suzune wrote:oh beeboy, clearly I was teasing you. Sorry if you missed it.
You are far from obvious town though.
Did you play borderlands 2?
Cakes never gave a good reason for me being scum day 1 for a reason.
He never tried getting me lynched beyond that for a reason.
I hard town read both my buddies when they where under pressure for a reason.
As players we don't bus and it is obv you should know that if you are really critically scum reading me right now.
Yep I played. I remeber you budies me and I budies you because it was good for us both. What cakes did is more of a game exclusive kind of thing. I protect my partner and I lynxh them. He seems like a similar person, in that you adapt to meet the situation. I will not lecture on scum politics. Placing a hat on him saying that he always does something is protecting him this you trying to paint something.-
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You may legitimately confuse me. Let's run through our conversation really slow because you are either terribly off track and looking for something to fork or missed the point a long time ago.
-I said that fire was town because scum would not make a risky move like that
-you claimed therefore I thought fire was being risky
-I claimed that it is not what I said. That the play would have been risky for scum.
-you again made the connection between risky townie and risky scum. Which I again refuted.
As a parallels:
-you called me scum.
I teased you and said to keep saying it
-you did
-I told you I was teasing you
-you claimed I had two bad town reads
-I told you at least I had two good town reads and I was sure one of my scum reads was correct
-you said well it is easy for scum to have good town reads
-I said you put me in a nondisupte corner because you were correct but it did not make me scum
-you claimed you were not insinuating that
-but what you said told me you were making that connection, but you seemed offended I made ther connection
-you attempted to appeal to my emotions by said I would break your heart
-then attempted to use mets to explain why cakes would never bus
- I said I disagree
- you said you disagree.
On the same page?
Beeboy started it.
I am not fire's neighbor. Otherwise he would not have asked me in the topic about the mail.-
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eh, it yeilded an interesting direction. I do not do it a lot, but this situation called for it. Especially considering it seemed harmless until beeboy started to heavily talk about it.In post 587, Persivul wrote:Really, no one likes a tease. If you guys (FB and Suz) are gonna claim neighbors or something, just do it already.
I'm not buying suz's push on beeboy.-
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I wonder if I should read that as a slight? I will be here of you want to tango again later.In post 591, beeboy wrote:In post 575, Suzune wrote:It would have been a risky play if he was scum. This suggesting it is less risky of town. The two ideas are mutually exclusive, while inherently connected.
Actually I tow read window and he was town. My other strong tow read is probably town too so while even is not ideal, it is not terrible. However I suspect I am not wrong about one of them.
Thanks for saying I'm scum again. I am certain the mafia would want he town to think that. Since you are wrong I guess I can handle being called scum a few more times. At the end of the game I will have to apologize for making my posts snarky, but long train rides do that to me.
I forgot suzune was good at this game, but she rolled scum I will reply later.-
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Suzune
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I disagree with your assessment. It would be a risky play for a mafia to tunnel someone on day one and rally people to their side. If the lynch came to fruitition and it was indeed a townie then, naturally speaking, everyone would look the the train driver. Since very little was being put into the lynch on window except trying to hard, Fire would have to dance to clear his name and would thus ruin town credibility. A mafia would, or should, never risk putting themselves into a situation where such a gamble would have to come into play. This kind of gambling suggests town in nature because the obvious buddying of Shiro and Beeboy would linger and attention could be directed onto them, thus, being a powerful play for a townie while a position breaking play for a mafia. I may not change your mind about this, but this is how I see the situation.In post 597, beeboy wrote:I didn't make the connection between risky townie and risky scummy.
Not sure if it can be interpreted that way but Fire would have made no risks as scum in that situation.
You are right it was not relevent until Peri and Firebringer chose this to comment on. Fire actively defended me against it while Peri disapproved. If this was all anyone was drawing from the conversation it shows that this had the biggest impact therefore, more can be gained from his exchange rather then from all the other material. More answers lie there.In post 597, beeboy wrote:>.> I don't know that this has to do with anything >.>
Just because I didn't know you where teasing me doesn't mean you need to rub it in D=
In post 597, beeboy wrote:Where did I do this?
Okay, another tab coming up.
You said it right here:In post 572, beeboy wrote:If you are implying I am scum you should vote me (imo a scum claim if you legit reread day 1 I am obv town), also that would make your reads 0/2 which I guess is ok since mislynching is playing for your wincon.
Why would they be unrelated? You have said multiple times I am scum. Why put this tad of theory crafting in here if you were not attempting to make a connection out of them. In fact it relates well to the post I quoted. Therefore, one has to assume you meant them to go together since they are stacked that way.In post 597, beeboy wrote:I wasn't making the connection but ok.
So does saying it more time makes it true? Does appealing to emotion apply only to scum players? Does the effect only work on those opposite of you?In post 597, beeboy wrote:I was teasing you, I don't need to appeal to scum's emotions.
This post is cocky. Since there is nothing damning there, I fail to see what it proved. You case on me is circumstantial you claim I am scum, because i am scum. Because I see the game state differently. Because I think something would have ruined a mafia. Therefore, I am scum because you disagree with my position.In post 598, beeboy wrote:That was easy.
Suzune votes plz.
While we are at it can Suzune explain her scum read on me?
On the other hand, for similar reasons, I think you are scum for overreaching. For reading posts and attempting to twist them in order to hammer a point. For making connections between mafia play and my play by suggesting, or not apparently, that they overlay. For pushing something with little evidence after I explained my point.
Well that is both cases in a nutshell.
I have not ever seriously debated with someone on mafiascum before should be fun. Ball is in your court.-
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I can ISO him.In post 602, Killthestory wrote:Now let's wagon Kling please.
Beeboy, last time I stpopped pushing someone for this reason, I lost the game for yielding. It did though occur to me that it was a fight between townies though since it was a double straw grasp.-
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No it means I am going to keep an eye on you. I will stand down, but not fully yield townie statusIn post 607, beeboy wrote:If you are using that as an excuse to continue to push me despite saying you think I am town I am taking back the statement where I think you where genuine.-
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thought you said my scum reads were 0/2 and that Shiro was obviously town. What changed your mind?
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no you said my scum reads were 0/2 therefore you disagreed that they were scummy. Since I had two you and Shiro, I assume you meant those two.In post 669, beeboy wrote:Did I say Shiro was obv town?-
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In post 678, Shiro wrote:In post 677, Suzune wrote:
no you said my scum reads were 0/2 therefore you disagreed that they were scummy. Since I had two you and Shiro, I assume you meant those two.In post 669, beeboy wrote:Did I say Shiro was obv town?
Suzu I townread you so what do you think of fire playing along with me voting his reads but when I vote Per now while evidently people scumread me for the way I play he avoids doing so and agrees with Mollas read on me ?
I dreamed we quick lynched you and you were town. So my subconscious clearly says to be more careful about you. Regardless, I think you have been playing much differently then usual and you tend to side with fire rather then have your own opinions. Therefore, I feel like I know less of what you are thinking and this makes meleerly of you.
I am in a unique position. I placed trust in fire. He saw my hand. Therefore I need to put trust there or I hurt the town. Therefore, I cannot bring myself to lynxh him of a unread him.-
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I am? Well sure, I will be perfectly candid with you. I did not change my vote for a bunch of reason ranging from kind of irresponsible to logical. First Kling never did anything that made the vote undeserving. Second I did not think window was mafia. Third is was my super paying attention to cakez. Fourth my fire emblem game and I were spending too much time together. Fourth it was a tough week at work and I only move my vote when I feel like it is time. Did I not vote for kill or did I just question him?In post 683, beeboy wrote:No no no Suzune is answering why she didn't move her vote past RVS yesterday-
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